Sharivar - LA game 4 bussy ppl. Complete. Wraithlord wins.

[WraithLord]

Hi,

Map Sharivar (Sombre ver. 1): "A beautiful Dom2 map by Sandra resized and updated by Sombre for Dom3 usage, with considerable help from lch. Shahrivar is a persian month that ends summer and opens autumn. Its name means Tempting Territory. There are a number of pre-discovered magic sites on the map, usually indicated graphically. There is room for only one underwater nation, so going for random races might crash the game. 180 provinces 12 of which are underwater."

At this point the game is open for both sign-up and discussion.

The following are the settings I had in mind. The ones I don't plan to change are in bold font:
Map: Map Sharivar (Sombre ver. 1)
Hosting Pace: First 15 turns every 24h, turns 15-30 48h, turn 30-45 72h, turn 45-60 96h, turn > 61 120h.
Hosting is planned for busy ppl!
Disallowed exploits: copying Bogus' orders and overfilling enemy lab to prevent his own forge.
Victory condition: 60-70% of # players capital VPs. 8 VPs.
Nations: All LA but UW (the map has very little UW provinces).
Hosted on llamaserver.
Diplomacy allowed.
NAP's are not considered binding.
(I for one have no intention of breaking my NAPs but every player is free to act as he will in this regard)

Discussion:
Edit: Discussion phase is over. I have compiled all the votes and went with the settings that got the most votes

# of players: 12
Gem gens: no
Mods: CBM 1.6 (w/o gem gens)
Research: Normal
Graphs: on
HoF: 15
Indies: Normal
Magic sites: 45%

Players:
1. WraithLord, Ermor
2. Aethyr, Midgard
3. Aristander, Man
4. rdonj, Jomon
5. Festin, TC
6. Trumanator, Ulm
7. mscfish, Pythium
8. Meglobob, Pan
9. Viccio, Ctis
10. Dimaz, Gath
11. Fantomen, Atlantis
12. ghoul31, Caelum

Game is hosted here (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Sharivar1) on llamaserver
Please refer to FAQ (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160)if you are have question about how to join.
Please use the attached map.

[Calahan]

It might be worth you mentioning whether or not dimplomacy is allowed, and if so, what the situation is regarding how binding NAP's are. The latter obviously helps offset any later disagreements on the issue :)

[Festin]

I would like to sign up as Tien Chi. For mods, I vote for using latest CBM without gem gens.

[WraithLord]

Updated first post.
Thanks 4 the tip Calahan.

[rdonj]

I would prefer CBM 1.6, no gem gens. As for the rest, standard settings are fine, but I don't mind deviating either so long as indy strength doesn't go astronomically high... playing jomon, I don't think I can afford such a handicap.

[archaeolept]

I would like to point out that the previous game w/ the first three players, Wraithlord was thrown the game by his allies Aristander and Aethyr. One can peruse the Asiatwist game thread for details. Instead of fighting for a win, after an epic 9 month game, Wraithlord had his friends abandon their victory points and actively aid in wraithlord's taking of the final two needed.

If you wish to play a game of many months only to have the game thrown by collusion, then this would likely be the game for you.

I myself will play play Mictlan; perhaps I will be able to bring some balance to this set-up.

[WraithLord]

You've got to be kidding me. You are throwing slander at me all over the place and cont. spam the same ridiculous lies.

So long as you persist with your vengeful behavior you are not welcome in this game, nor would I want to participate in any future game with you.

Guys, I can assure you that no "throwing" of the game is gonna happen. I'm not even certain Aristander would be able to participate (though he had expressed interest). Even if he would there's no knowing whether we would be in game friends or foes. Same thing for Aethyr. In-fact, being as I chose to take Ermor it's most likely that all would gang up on me anyway :D

[archaeolept]

Slander needs to be untrue. Please state what it is I have said that you feel is factually incorrect. thank you.

Again, what lies do you maintain I have said? Seriously - you can say they are lies, but the facts are pretty obvious. Do you deny collusion? Do you deny Aristander threw you the game? I really don't understand what it is you are disputing.

I'm interested in playing in order to have a real and fair competition this time.

Guys, I can assure you that no "throwing" of the game is gonna happen.What is the basis of your assurance? It happened last game; your argument was that it had not been specifically rejected by the game's rules.

In fact, this is a good game for us to have a rematch with, as due to your being LA Ermor, diplomatic issues are likely to be less relevant.

[Trumanator]

Seriously Archae, this is getting a little ridiculous. Its one thing to dispute the win, but posting in every damn thread he does is pathetic. As far as I'm concerned, its irrelevant what happened in AT until/unless it repeats. Then, I might start worrying.

I would like to join as Ulm.

[archaeolept]

hi trumanator. this is the only thread he has done, so, technically you are correct.

It is relevant for a game that it's operating conditions and rules and standards of conduct be discussed. As such, and given past history, I merely want to know whether throwing a game is considered legit here. Is it, or not? I mean, really, why wouldn't it be legit to do so in this game? Do you feel there is something wrong with that?

You are right, though. A proper discussion on good game play and throwing games should have it's own thread. Further debate on that issue should take place there. In order to reduce the amount of threads this issue is spread over, I will create a thread for it.

[mscfish]

Hi,WL:
Thanks for your invite.And I will take the race of PY.

[archaeolept]

Due to the unsatisfactory conclusion of the previous game, I'm interested in a rematch, which is why I am joining. Whatever the past, I certainly do not preclude good diplomatic relations with players from prior games. I do not feel WL bested me before; now is his opportunity to do so.

[Meglobob]

Can I have Pan?

Yes to CBM.
No to gem generators.
Graphs on.
Research easy.
HoF max.
Indies normal.

Any chance of having magic sites higher than 35%, perhaps 45%? 35% is a bit boring.

[Meglobob]

Btw any chance of a link to the map, Wraith? Looked in maps/mods but can't seem to find it.

[archaeolept]

research normal or hard, indies hard, but no real preferences. CBM, no gem gens, though.

[Aristander]

I am in.
I would like to try Man.
Thanks

Aristander

[Festin]

Yes, I also vote for high magic sites if we play without gem gens.

[WraithLord]

Due to the unsatisfactory conclusion of the previous game, I'm interested in a rematch, which is why I am joining. Whatever the past, I certainly do not preclude good diplomatic relations with players from prior games. I do not feel WL bested me before; now is his opportunity to do so.
Well, you called me a player w/o honor and a liar (and then you edited your msg to moderate that). You go around posting in every place I do always with the same thing to say.
I don't understand you. Why do you want to play with me?- just so you can exact vengeance on some perceived grievance you have?
I tell you I'm not here for the ego. I don't want competition with you or anyone else for that matter. I enjoy playing and winning like everybody else but have 0 interest in ego competitions. You think you're a better dom player than me, well that's all well and good and perhaps even true. It doesn't matter to me one whit. Had I any interest in this we could have just arranged a 1:1 ( and see whose the man ;) ). But frankly I don't find this prospect enjoyable. Anyway for sure not now, perhaps later in the future I'll change my mind (maybe if there's a good prize for the winner I will :D ). For now I'm more into playing with lots of ppl and have interesting & varied games.

Also, you have the right to express your opinions in a civil and polite matter, nothing like the post storm you did the last few days with name calling and finger pointing and giving your very emotional interpretation of things.
If you want to open a new page then I'm all for it and although I can relate to your frustration I still think you went over the board with your reaction and believe that you owe me an apology.

I have nothing against you. I'm not upset with you nor do I feel any animosity towards you. I'm just somewhat disappointed at your disrespectful reaction. The way things are, heated and emotional, I don't think anything good would come of you participating in this game and frankly, given the way you feel, I find that strange that you'd even want to.

[viccio]

I would like to play with C'tis

Viccio

[Dimaz]

Gath, please.
I prefer no mods, standard settings.

[WraithLord]

Btw any chance of a link to the map, Wraith? Looked in maps/mods but can't seem to find it.

Yes. Part of Sombre's project (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39253&highlight=sharivar+sombre) for converting old dom-II maps.

[archaeolept]

really, you're that afraid of the competition, even with the game filled w/ your hand-picked buddies?

I made an attempt to have something like a rematch; you rejected my offering.

and ego competitions? who said anything about that? As to claims of lies and slander, I seem to recall you making those accusations.

and post storm? I"ve posted in 3 threads. The game thread, a reply to your posting the win for the game, and in this thread. All are clearly relevant. You have posted in many other threads, and you do not find my posts there. This would seem to be a misstatement on your part, then.

[WraithLord]

Guys, please take into account that the open settings will be decided by the majority.

As for not "throwing" up games and such we can have some house rules in that regard but I personally this would end up very artificial. let's say we decide something int he vein of:
A. Players are/aren't allowed to pass X gems/items/gold to other player [after turn Y] [in case player is Z in the score graphs] etc.

or
B. Players must defend their VPs with all their might. If they have more than one VP they must divide their forces equally between them. Players are not allowed to teleport/raid/suicide attack or otherwise risk their armies and thus prevent them from defending their VPs.

I'm not saying we can't come up with some plausible formula but how would it be enforced?- Is it even worthwhile to enforce it?- And why go to all that trouble if we can just do RAND?

I think this discussion is way out of scope of this thread. I suggest we stick to diplomacy and trust the players good judgment. And if someone just passed his 400 N gems to allow another to cast GoH and win the game via his tart factory - well, so be it.

That said, your opinions on that matter are of course welcome :)

[WraithLord]

really, you're that afraid of the competition, even with the game filled w/ your hand-picked buddies?

Yes, that is 100% true and nothing remotely close to slander ;)


I made an attempt to have something like a rematch; you rejected my offering.

Who said anything about rematch?- Why on earth would you want a rematch?- If you are so keen on a rematch then join the next RAND game (whenever that be) with me.


and post storm? I"ve posted in 3 threads. The game thread, a reply to your posting the win for the game, and in this thread. All are clearly relevant.

The sheer volume of your repetition is soooo tiring.


You have posted in many other threads, and you do not find my posts there. This would seem to be a misstatement on your part, then.
What on earth are you talking about?- What other threads?- And pray tell me, are you now stalking me as well :confused:

Drink some beer, play some dominions, just give it a rest man :)

[archaeolept]

If you were truly interested in moving beyond this and "giving it a rest" you wouldn't be denying my attempt to join this game in good faith.

And I'm pretty sure that even in those three threads, the number of our posts is about on par.What other threads?- And pray tell me, are you now stalking me as well wut? you've made posts in strategy threads - reading the forums really doesn't constitute stalking. That's a bit bizarre. I guess you've decided to try to spin this as some sort of persecution of an innocent. Whatever.

[WraithLord]

If you were truly interested in moving beyond this and "giving it a rest" you wouldn't be denying my attempt to join this game in good faith.

Yes, good faith. Coming to the game I host, telling everyone I'm some kind of villain with a mafia of undercover friends hell bent on stealing victory. I truly believe you.


And I'm pretty sure that even in those three threads, the number of our posts is about on par.
Yes, on par, a thread I opened for a game I host, game thread in which I'm trying to do an AAR worth a damn, and HoF thread in which I posted game results. All (but HoF) full to chocking with your repetitive msgs. Yes again, that makes perfect sense indeed.

Edit, nitpick, I've made no posts in strat. threads today. How could I, when all I do is read your posts here.

Edit2, Oh, that's getting ridiculous. I should have just ignored you like I promised myself I would. Look, If you ever feel differently and want to open a new page plz let me know. Otherwise please respect my will to stay out of touch.

[Fantomen]

Hi wraithlord, have room for me? I´d like to play Atlantis.

I vote for latest CBM 1.6, would be nice to try it out.

Edit: Jesus Archaeolept, you don´t go around ****ting on people like that. Regardless what they did. You´re making a fool out of yourself to be honest.

[WraithLord]

@Fantomen, I'm sorry for neglecting to mention this. IIRC the map is not appropriate for UW nations (it only has a small lake in the middle if memory serves). I'll update the first post with this bit. Would you care to select a different nation instead?

[archaeolept]

I'm happy to play the fool, I guess. Like I said, the discussion of what happened belongs in its own thread. I was looking to join this game. All I've done is post in three relevant threads, for which I receive abuse. As I keep saying, I'm happy to keep discussion of the events involved in Asiatwist, and the topic of throwing games in general, in its own thread, which I will create later. Any posts since then have been due to my interest in joining another game - clearly this is not it, for Wraithlord's reasons.

Fantomen, I don't see you adding content anywhere on the issue. Hopefully you will have something relevant to contribute to the appropriate thread.

edit: in LA, Atlantis is mostly a land nation, and would work on this map, though I believe it, like LA Mary, should have its capital border on the large lake.

[Fantomen]

@Fantomen, I'm sorry for neglecting to mention this. IIRC the map is not appropriate for UW nations (it only has a small lake in the middle if memory serves). I'll update the first post with this bit. Would you care to select a different nation instead?

If I start bordering the lake Atlantis will be fine, it´s strong on land as well as in water. I´ll test the map to see how I´m placed. Is that ok?

Edit: Well Atlantis plays fine on this map.

[ghoul31]

I'll take caelum

[Ballbarian]

archaeolept,

You can put as much sugar on this topic as you want, but it still tastes like crap.
Please let it go, agree to disagree and enjoy the game.


POST #29 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=710590&postcount=29)
Any posts since then have been due to my interest in joining another game - clearly this is not it, for Wraithlord's reasons.

POST #6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=710506&postcount=6)

I would like to point out that the previous game w/ the first three players, Wraithlord was thrown the game by his allies Aristander and Aethyr. One can peruse the Asiatwist game thread for details. Instead of fighting for a win, after an epic 9 month game, Wraithlord had his friends abandon their victory points and actively aid in wraithlord's taking of the final two needed.

If you wish to play a game of many months only to have the game thrown by collusion, then this would likely be the game for you.

I myself will play play Mictlan; perhaps I will be able to bring some balance to this set-up.


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[archaeolept]

I have sent a PM asking for clarification on the proper manner in which these issues should be discussed. I would propose a single thread for the general issue, without personal attacks or the like. Anyone can avoid the thread if they do not care for the topic.

I would like there to be some means of discussion that does not constitute flaming or trolling. I would hope that an honest discussion would lead to an improvement in the community's enjoyment of its games, whatever my personal opinion of Wraithlord.

This will be my final post in this thread.

[Aethyr]

I am confirming my participation in this game.

Trumanator, I agree with you but I cannot remain silent.

@Archae, you accuse me unjustly sir. I defended my VPs vigorously against multiple attacks by you and held them until the end of the game.

[WraithLord]

let's aim to start this game in a week from now or when all pretenders are in. Whichever comes first.

Good hunting :)

[WraithLord]

Oh and make sure nobody uninvited takes your nation's place!

rdonj, would you care to share your sage advice and refresh my memory as how to deal with such a thing if needed?

[rdonj]

Well, there's no way to stop someone from signing up. Just set the game not to auto-start, and I'm pretty sure until the game has started you can just remove incorrect pretenders via the game page. You have to rely on the players that were unable to get a pretender in to let you know if there's a problem though.

[WraithLord]

Thank you for the advice!

You heard rdonj, Plz report to me if you were unable to get your pretender in.

You should get a confirmation response form the server like:
"
This is just to confirm that I've received a pretender file from you for Ermor in the game Sharivar1, and everything seems to be fine with it. Here's a list of nations which have signed up so far:

Ermor

Note that you can check this at any time at www.llamaserver.net.

Details of your e-mail:
Subject: Sharivar1
Sent at: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:47:01 +0300
Attachment: late_ermor_0.2h
"

[archaeolept]

I am confirming my participation in this game.

Trumanator, I agree with you but I cannot remain silent.

@Archae, you accuse me unjustly sir. I defended my VPs vigorously against multiple attacks by you and held them until the end of the game.please cite where I ever claimed otherwise. Also, please do not bring me back into this thread. If you wish to discuss specifics, we can do it somewhere else.

[Burnsaber]

Umm... Guys? Are you absolutely certain that you want to play on the unedited map?

There are some pretty crazy stuff in there, like pre-placed Summoning Circle and a site that let's you recruit S/W/D mages. There are numerous other minor bonus sites all over too.

Just to let you guys know, since those things can be pretty easy to miss. If you want to play on, I'd keep an close eye on provinces 158 and 171.

[archaeolept]

Shaharivar is a beautiful map, and one of my favorites from DomII days. We used it for Ironhawk's original artifacts game, but the original .map, which Sombre seems to have included, needs to be fixed up a bit.

1. the two western mountain chains overly restrict mobility; especially the nw start position is relatively hemmed in. This led to a number of complaints from users about playing on this map. We added a couple mtn crossings iirc, one to the north and one to the south, and that helped a fair bit. Perhaps we added another northern river crossing too, can't recall.

2. summoning circle is an insane site to have pre-placed in a game (60% blood bonus). I think we swapped it out for the nice but innoffensive circle of standing stones [edit: nope, demon gate. standing stones would better match the image though]. a few other sites were toned down as well.

3. there are some connectivity issues in the se plains esp. that need to be cleared up, where neighbours don't connect to neighbours, or connected to places they shouldn't.

4. there is somewhat too little terrain variation in the south/se plains, which is easily rectified by adding some mtn/waste/forest terrain in appropriate areas.

5. also the pre-placed sites were made #nostart, for obvious reasons.

i've included the revised .map that was used for Artifacts I. changes are documented at the start of the .map. I'm not sure what sorts of changes, if any, are needed to make a dom II .map compatible to dom III.

[Festin]

In this case it is probably a good idea to use a new map version.

[Trumanator]

Thanks Archae.

I really think we ought to use the edited version. Personally, I know that if I start anywher NEAR the summoning circle I am going balls out for it!

[Fantomen]

Yeah I vote also for changing summoning circle to something else, It should still be a nice site IMO, just less game breaking.

[WraithLord]

Burnsaber, thank you for the heads up.
archaeolept, thank you for the detailed report and revised map. However, this game will host on llamaserver and can only use the maps on the server.
I assume, being as the server is so awesome, that there is a way to upload user maps but am not yet familiar with it. I'll try and see if I can learn more by checking the server FAQ.

Guys, I agree with all that we better use Archae's edited map. I won't start the game until I find out how to load it to the server and set our game to use it.
If you are doing test games then you should use this map as well.

[Trumanator]

The tourmaline map already uploaded should work.

[WraithLord]

Hi Trumanator, What is the exact uploaded map name?- I'm trying to find it in the list of U/Led maps. So far w/o success.

Does it contain all the fixed to the issues pointed out by Burnsaber and Archae?

EDIT: BTW, I checked Archae's map and it works with dom-III (after editing the tga map name). I also found out how to U/L it to the server. Since we're back from a party and it's late night here I'll probably take care of this tomorrow.

[WraithLord]

Seems like something's wrong with Archae's map. I just noticed in a test game that the provinces connection doesn't make sense. For example, 147 should be connected to 151 , 160, 157, 138 and 145 but is instead connected to 156, 164, 146 and 141.

Probably something to do with dom-II to dom-III transition.

[Fantomen]

I think you could use Sombres Dom3 converted map file and copy Archaes balance changes into it.

Upload the map using this linkie (http://www.llamaserver.net/uploadMap.cgi?browsing=true) (can also be foud through the map & mod browser)

[archaeolept]

it sounds like someone may have modified the tga instead of the .map in order to rectify the obvious original connectivity problems, as what you report sounds pretty similar to the original issue.

it is easy to edit .maps to correct connectivity, luckily.

also you may want to double check that none of the magic sites have been taken out of the game. I know many were added in DomIII; possibly some were taken out.

[rdonj]

The tourmaline map already uploaded should work.

The map I used for Tourmaline is NI Shahrivar 10 starts. Unfortunately, it won't work for this game due to the fact that it only has, well, 10 starts. I'm also pretty sure none of those starts are coastal.

[WraithLord]

I like simple solutions and since my capabilities in the area of map editing are practically non-existent I think we can either:
A. Rely on the kindness of someone who is competent at map editing to apply the fixes. Perhaps ano will be kind enough to take a look - I'll PM him later...

B. Just find another similar size map that doesn't have all these issues.

[WraithLord]

ok, let's proceed. which of the following you like and think is balanced enough for our game:
1. World of Warhammer (Vanilla)
2. Sharivar 10 starts (rdonj: "The map I used for Tourmaline is NI Shahrivar 10 starts"). Who made that one?- Can we ask him to add 2 more starts?
3. Bigger map (200-240). In which case we need 2 more players.

[rdonj]

I made that one :P. I could probably come up with a configuration for 12 starts if it comes down to it. It would mean completely redoing all the starts though. In any case I don't mind either way. It could be interesting playing on world of warhammer... one of the few maps with a significant number of cave provinces.

[Fantomen]

If at all possible I want to play on Sharivar, it´s a *beatiful* map that I havent played MP yet. Can´t we just take Sombres version and edit out summoning circle?

[WraithLord]

I have no idea how well the warhammer map is balanced for MP. It seems to have lots of water which is not that great.
I think our safest choice is to go for 12 starts Sharivar. However this entails extra work for you rdonj. So it's ultimately up to you. You don't have to invest in this if you don't want to or don't have the time for this.
If it comes to that we can just take the warhammer map. It is a beautiful map as well, so should prove pleasant to play with.

[Burnsaber]

I had about 30 minutes to burn, so..

Here you go, A fixed version of the Shahrivar (Sombre version) with the sites fixed. I replaced all sites that give independent mages or school bonuses with pure gem sites. Some of the sites are pretty good, some even give 4 gems, but since that information is now public, I think that it won't unbalance much.


-- Famous sites of Shahrivar (visible on the map)

#setland 4
#knownfeature "Monastery of Light"

#setland 7
#knownfeature "Crypt in the Sand"

#setland 11
#knownfeature "Well of Darkness"

#setland 8
#knownfeature "Red Forest"

#setland 33
#knownfeature "The Gate of Deeper Slumber"

#setland 40
#knownfeature "Singing Stones"

#setland 38
#knownfeature "Palace of Dreams"

#setland 51
#knownfeature "Forest of Golden Leaves"

#setland 57
#knownfeature "Damned Merchant"

#setland 62
#knownfeature "Caveman Cavern"

#setland 79
#knownfeature "Sunken Island"

#setland 90
#knownfeature "Lantern Forest"

#setland 97
#knownfeature "Overgrown Lake"

#setland 99
#knownfeature "Gold Mine"

#setland 120
#knownfeature "The Marble Temple"

#setland 116
#knownfeature "Fountain of Rubies"

#setland 121
#knownfeature "Moonlit Pond of Pearls"

#setland 128
#knownfeature "The Vale of Unicorns"

#setland 142
#knownfeature "Strange House in the Mist"

#setland 159
#knownfeature "Crystal Garden"

#setland 165
#knownfeature "Well of Yesterdays Waters"

#setland 158
#knownfeature "Riddle Dark"

#setland 167
#knownfeature "Garden of Weeping Roses"

#setland 166
#knownfeature "Gold Apple Tree"

#setland 171
#knownfeature "Halls of Imprisoned Sunlight"

#setland 173
#knownfeature "Stairway Mountain"


#setland 123
#knownfeature "Gateward Valley"


I'll leave it up to Wraithlord to accept and upload the map to the llamaserver.

.

[Fantomen]

Yay! Good work.:)

[Meglobob]

Thanks Burnsaber! Really wanted to play on Shahrivar.

I would have been happy with the powerful sites, has its incredibly rare you ever see them in MP (like 1 in a 100 games if your lucky) and its gives you a strategic point to fight over.

Nevermind thou, if other people don't want to have fun with such sites.

[WraithLord]

muchas gracias Burnsaber

I can't U/L the map to llamaserver. I get an error:
"The map file you just uploaded specifies an image file that the LlamaServer does not have a copy of. Please upload the image file here, then you can go back and upload the map file again.

Please enter the location of your image file below and click "Upload map image".
"

When I U/L the image it says it's already there. I'll PM the server's master perhaps he can help :)

[rdonj]

I had that problem when I was uploading my version of the map. First thing I'd suggest is removing any and all spaces from the file names and trying again.

[WraithLord]

Yoohoo, that worked :D

We are all set guys. Missing 3 nations to start.

[DomDomDom]

Unfortunately I overlooked this game recruiting.
If one of the players wants to withdraw before game starts I'm ready to replace him as Abyssia.

[WraithLord]

I've changed file names for Burnsaber's files and edited the .map accordingly to resolve the U/L issue.

Later this evening I'll attach the final map files to the first post. Make sure to use them for the game.

[WraithLord]

Map attached to first post.
All pretenders are in and I got no complaints from anyone re. not being able to submit his nation so I'm starting the game now.

Good luck all :)

[Trumanator]

Is my start prov meant to be a wasteland w/only 3 neighbors? I'll be fine, but its still rather annoying.

[WraithLord]

Pray you don't get an earthquake razed temple event ;)

Seriously, luck is part of the game. We could have used fixed start locs but I personally find it more exciting to let luck decide. I hope you'll do good despite your start loc :)

[WraithLord]

Fantomen, please submit your turn. The hosting schedule is 24h. You should have staled had the server not strangely added a 24h extension all by itself :)

Next time you need an extension just ask me.

[Fantomen]

Sorry bout that. I have some problems, when I try to load the turn my game crashes. Trying to solve it now...

Edit: ok, problem solved. Doing turn now.

[mscfish]

Py declare war upon the unholy ashen empire.We will clean the undead in the name of Roma.If you agree with us,maybe some money is very useful to us,and your that friendly and just behavior will be reward.

PY mscfish

[viccio]

i'm not usally a persone than make controversy , but I started in a province far from Atlantis 1 territory and closed in other 2 direction (the lake to west and river to south with only a direction for my expansion and of course I have already met another opponent that he closed me...

[WraithLord]

viccio, I'm sorry to hear that. Random starting pos. is part of the luck element in this game that I wanted to keep. If it's any consolation to you I also got a bad tarting position, not as bad as yours, but still quite bad IMHO.

Guys, I'd be taking a short vacation on Oct 1st so maybe I'll need to add 24h extension.

[Aristander]

Rats I staled. I just need to adjust to the time difference. However, I for one did get a nice starting position.

Cheers

Aristander

[WraithLord]

We're now on 48h schedule.

[rdonj]

Ah, glorious. I'll try not to use it every turn though.

[Aethyr]

Hail Lord of Gath:

The time has come to cancel our NAP. Orders will be given on turn 24. I would say "good luck", but I'm the one who will probally need it most. :)

[Festin]

Aww, curse you Bogus!

[rdonj]

Lol. Gotta love him. He has this habit of showing up exactly where he's least wanted.

[WraithLord]

For some strange reason the server refuses to accept my turn file. I've sent it three times already and didn't get the ack. nor does it appear the my turn was received in game status page.

I've turned off quick host while this issue persists.
Anyone experience similar problems?

[ghoul31]

thats because llamabeast unplugged the llamaserver. look at his post

[WraithLord]

oh, that explains it. May I ask where is that post?

[Calahan]

Here you go WL

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44190

[WraithLord]

Thank you!

I asked for an extension to our game so that the following won't stale:
Atlantis Waiting for 2h file
Caelum Waiting for 2h file
Chelms Waiting for 2h file
Ermor Waiting for 2h file
Gath Waiting for 2h file
Jomon Waiting for 2h file
Midgard Waiting for 2h file
Pangaea Waiting for 2h file

Worst case we'll rollback. With most players staling it kinda makes sense.

[rdonj]

Jomon here. I've sent in my turn. And I actually just got turn received messages from the server. But it is still not showing on the llamaserver page. So I guess once we're sure the llamaserver is up and running I'll send my turn in again.

[Aethyr]

Yikes. I will resend my turn in a bit. Thanks

[WraithLord]

Yes, I reccomend to resend and will do so myself this evening.
After that I'll turn quick host back again. If anyone needs more time plz inform me.

[WraithLord]

server still doesn't seem to be working well.
At some time I got bombarded by mails from the server. Then I resent my turn and got no ack mail. In addition I gave a 24h extension and turned off quick host but the server page doesn't show any of this to be applied.

I hope the server gets fixed and that nobody stales.

[Aethyr]

OK--I've resent my turn again.

[WraithLord]

Guys I suggest you all resend your turns. Just in case...
All turns are in but I've set the game to host tomorrow so you all have enough time to resend.

[rdonj]

Done.

[Dimaz]

Me too.

[Festin]

Any nations interested in purchasing fire gems, please contact Tien Chi.

[rdonj]

Ah man, I thought I'd sent that turn in. That could have been pretty terrible for me (but luckily wasn't).

[Trumanator]

I am going to be busy with ROTC essentially all this weekend, with absolutely no internet access. If I could have a delay till Monday that would be great.

[WraithLord]

I don't think that should be a problem. You're set.

[Trumanator]

Okay, I've been hanging around with only one prov & fortress for some time now, hoping to give one more grand last stand. Since this hasn't materialized, I am going to set AI. I haven't even done anything for the last 6 turns or so.

[Dimaz]

Ermor decided to end our NAP and attack me soon. I'll still be busy with Midgard at that time. So I invite everyone to help me fight Ermor, since if I fight alone he will surely win and then no one will be able to stop him. Ermor is nasty opponent as it is, but with highly skilled player he can be devastating. If you think you can relax and eat popcorn while we fight, you are very wrong.

[Kuritza]

Ha ha ha. You will be very lucky if somebody doesn't decide to attack YOU while you try to fight Ermor.

P.S.

AaaaaaAaaaAHahaAHAHAAhahahaAHAHA! ))))))

[rdonj]

Eh, they are both more or less dominating this game. Whichever one of them doesn't go down is probably going to win. In an ideal situation, war would be declared on both of them while they're killing each other and the survivors of that would then duke it out amongst themselves to see who won. Of course, the winner would inevitably be either the person who takes most of gath's land or the person who sits back quietly observing the proceedings while everyone else gets mashed up.

That's probably not happening in this game though since there are not very many powerful nations bordering the two of them.

[Dimaz]

Well.
Let's just skip time-consuming boring part and declare Ermor the winner, then.

[Kuritza]

Now, there is one flaw in this logic. Well, other than everyone should, in theory, try to win, not just skip turns waiting for the inevitable end. What you should and what you shouldnt is not defined indeed.
Let me try to explain.

1) Nobody likes to gang on Ermor, especially early in the game, because Ermor is damn hard and it dominions makes sure you will only get wastelands after all your (wasted) efforts.
2) Unchecked, a well-played Ermor almost invariably becomes one of the major forces.
3) Usually, there's another well-played strong nation.
4) They declare war on each other.
5) If you fight a well-played Ermor alone, you are more or less doomed. Any losses you inflict on him, he just shrugs off as more undead rise from the graves. 200, 400, 600 undead killed in one combat mean nothing to him. Any losses he inflicts on you are painful. And its hard to counter darkness + rigor mortis, you know... because solar brilliance, the only counter to darkness, also blinds your own troops making them useless. And its harder to cast. :)
6) Most likely, Ermor will emerge victorious in the end. And nobody else will be in a position to challenge him, so its game over.

Against any living nation, you will stand a chance because its a matter of diplomacy and skill. Against Ermor, when he kills his only rival, you can only give up.
I have tried explaining it in another game, and was laughed at. Well, lets see how you laugh when Ermor kills Dimaz. :)

[rdonj]

No, I agree, ermor has probably an 80% or greater chance to win this game at this point. However, I don't really think that gath being the victor in the battle between the two of them would really make much of a difference in the long run. Gath is sort of ridiculously strong right now and growing stronger. And ermor is the only nation bordering him that has even the remotest chance of killing him 1 on 1, midgard is a shambles, and MAN is the only other nation bordering him.

Ermor is bordered by just me (jomon) and gath, and together we could probably kill ermor and divide the spoils, so to speak. Then gath would proceed to walk all over me/everyone else and win the game, unless someone has a magnificent trick hiding up their sleeve (I am not this person). I don't think I'd be able to defeat either gath or ermor one on one at this point, and I think finding help in killing either of those two monsters would prove to be a near impossible task this game, as there are just not many people who border them and the few that do really don't have much opportunity to harm them.

Then there is another reason that ermor is going to win, and that is that I am playing this game very, very casually and can't really be bothered with the normal sorts of details that help win games. Such as attacking ermor when he's weak trying to kill off pythium (and then being ravaged by gath once he finds JOMON living in an ermorian wasteland...) or attempting to expand into neighbors and creating a powerful, single state instead of a collection of three modestly powerful nations in the same space. Whether I won or not, someone would have. Instead, being a peace-loving hippie at heart, I organized the Alliance to Save Lizards from Fishmen and ruined the chances of another would be power that could have possibly united the northeastern quadrant and formed a powerful enough nation to maybe stand up to ermor or gath. And like me, no one else up here in the northeast seems to be much of a warmonger ;).

So, ermor or gath. And I am betting on ermor as he is at the point already where he should have near-limitless chaff, even if his research is not so hot.

[WraithLord]

Very interesting arguments. However Gath is very strong as is and getting stronger every turn. Led by an expert player that I respect based on bitter experience it is currently #1 in power balance.

True, I wish to change that for my own selfish reasons ;) If I fail to act now then it's game over - Gath wins. So, more or less, this conflict is mandatory.

Now, don't forget that chaff doesn't win games. It's gems and research that do. So 600 undead are nothing compared to mind hunts, or RoS, or SCs etc. Ermor is way behind on research so it may look scary but it's true offensive power is severely limited. Had I been in Gaths position I estimate that I'd have killed Van and then Ermor w/o real difficulty.

Hey, if enough players want it I could consider keeping the NAP with Gath and just let him win :)

[Dimaz]

In 1 on 1 war I think I'll be able to win. In fact, I was more or less preparing for it since discovering of Ermor as a neighbor. But, unfortunately, Midgard decided to interfere and I made some mistakes during this war, which slowed me down, so now my forces are rather scattered and now I can continue with Midgard or switch to Ermor, not both. OK, I see that no one is going to join here, so probably it'll be another win for Ermor.

[rdonj]

Very interesting arguments. However Gath is very strong as is and getting stronger every turn. Led by an expert player that I respect based on bitter experience it is currently #1 in power balance.

True, I wish to change that for my own selfish reasons ;) If I fail to act now then it's game over - Gath wins. So, more or less, this conflict is mandatory.

Now, don't forget that chaff doesn't win games. It's gems and research that do. So 600 undead are nothing compared to mind hunts, or RoS, or SCs etc. Ermor is way behind on research so it may look scary but it's true offensive power is severely limited. Had I been in Gaths position I estimate that I'd have killed Van and then Ermor w/o real difficulty.

Hey, if enough players want it I could consider keeping the NAP with Gath and just let him win :)

Nah, I'd rather let the scenario play itself out and see who comes out on top. But if we're already sure we know who's going to win I guess we could call the game if you and gath really wanted :P

[WraithLord]

If we did all that then what's the point of playing anyway?
Just calculate player_experience*f1+nation_power_rate*f2+whatever and whoever comes first wins the game, on turn 1 :D
Now there's a grain of truth here so I don't ridicule, just pointing out that such an argument can spoil games depending on how soon it's made.

The game is like a story unfolding as we go. Drama and tragics, heroic deeds and betrayals all mixed. So Gath jumped Ulm and then Van. One practically dead and the other 3/4 of the way to the graveyard. No wonder Ermor is interested in joining the party ;)
Being last in research by a big margin means Ermor is not a top notch killer but rather a stupid mean-looking bully. Taking on Gath may well prove the (real) death of Ermor. Come-on Van, hold on mate so we at least stand a chance :up:

Go figure, perhaps Pan would come out the better from all this exchange or perhaps the hungry sharks would tear at bleeding Gath so Ermor gets all pain but no gain :)

[Trumanator]

Is it even possible to have LA Ermor in the game w/out drama?

Oh, and Gath didn't really jump Ulm, Ulm foolishly attacked Gath when they didn't see any giants.

[WraithLord]

right. and Van has declared war on Gath as well. Hey, and now I broke my NAP with Gath.
Would I end up as they did?- Oh my, I may have made a mistake. :doh:

[Kuritza]

Is it even possible to have LA Ermor in the game w/out drama?

Well there are just three possibilities, as far as I can tell from my experience.

1) Ermor is led by a newbie.
2) Ermor is led by an expert player, but his neighbours know they have to unite against him.
3) Ermor wins.

:)

Of course, Gath is also a very special nation in LA, being the only nation able to recruit quite decent SC. So perhaps... perhaps... things may go differently this time.
But Dimaz and me, well, we are really tired of games following the third route. There are only so much times same scenario can be enjoyable. :) Ok, I'll leave you to your sheming now, sorry guys.

[Aethyr]

In 1 on 1 war I think I'll be able to win. In fact, I was more or less preparing for it since discovering of Ermor as a neighbor. But, unfortunately, Midgard decided to interfere.
Well, that's one perspective. My perspective is that I attacked you in response to your implied threat. While I'll grant you that I may have misinterpreted your original intent, the fact remains that I reacted to the threat I believed you presented at the time. In retrospect (as you've noted) it would have been wiser for me to let you and Ermor duke it out and bide my time.

[Dimaz]

right. and Van has declared war on Gath as well. Hey, and now I broke my NAP with Gath.
Would I end up as they did?- Oh my, I may have made a mistake. :doh:

Often it's preferrable to join a war as a defending side.

[Dimaz]

Now that's ridiculous. I already lost half of my SCs without any significant casualties to Ermor, and now without any reason Jomon attacked me. You want easy victory for Ermor, you'll get it.

[Dimaz]

Ha ha ha. You will be very lucky if somebody doesn't decide to attack YOU while you try to fight Ermor.

P.S.

AaaaaaAaaaAHahaAHAHAAhahahaAHAHA! ))))))

Oh my you were so right...

[rdonj]

I told you I was playing this game for fun, not to win :). Me and ermor have been very friendly the whole game, so it's not exactly sudden. I've been intending to attack you for... 6-8 turns now. There are other reasons as well which I won't go into. But this is NOT random like sciencepro's r'lyeh.

Maybe if we had done a bit more diplomacy things might have gone the other way. You and midgard are the only people in the game I DIDN'T tell I was going to attack you (okay I lied, I didn't tell atlantis either).

Heh, I wonder how much hate I'm going to get for this.

[Dimaz]

From me? No hate. I told you I was playing this game for fun, not to win - this is enough for me, thanks.

Have fun.

[Kuritza]

But this is NOT random like sciencepro's r'lyeh.

Sigh. But the outcome is still the same... you become other player's willing vassal, carrying him to victory.

Giving him an unfair advantage over another player, if you wish. For your fun you spoil the fun for Dimaz. And its rather unsportsmanlike.
You dont think so?

[Dimaz]

2rdonj
Just one more thing. I can't understand why you think you cannot win this game. Without your interference, the most probable scenario (as I see it, and WL wrote me the same thing some time ago (however as I know he knew all along about your plans, I'm not sure about anything anymore)) was that me and Ermor draw ourselves into very long and fruitless war while you can expand in the northwest and eventually become the #1 power.
Anyway it's too late now.
Have fun.

[rdonj]

2rdonj
Just one more thing. I can't understand why you think you cannot win this game. Without your interference, the most probable scenario (as I see it, and WL wrote me the same thing some time ago (however as I know he knew all along about your plans, I'm not sure about anything anymore)) was that me and Ermor draw ourselves into very long and fruitless war while you can expand in the northwest and eventually become the #1 power.
Anyway it's too late now.
Have fun.

While this is certainly a fair possibility for me and I maybe could go on to win the game if I played for it, I hate to attack nations I've done diplomacy with. TC and I are NAPed, and he is still removing atlantis from the land as per old arrangements (it's also questionable whether I could actually kill him as he is playing a strictly better nation and is not that much weaker than me in most categories). Me and c'tis are still technically in a mutual protection alliance against atlantis, and while I could kill him it would not be worth the pain. Especially having to deal with atlantis, I want no part in chasing fantomen out of the water :P. Ermor and I have been NAPed since way back when ermor was at war with pythium. This leaves me with no one I desire to make war on up in the northeast, and further I know I will never declare war on them. Why? Because we are perfectly content to let one another exist.

On the other hand, you are stronger than me, larger than me, and the entirety of diplomatic relations we've had this game was me giving you one item for some gems. To me this is a good target :P While it is true that this is not the optimum choice for my nation, it is the optimum choice for me given my personality and playstyle. When ermor asked for my help against you, my friendly sort of personality and the fact that you are big, scary, and exactly the sort of target I like to attack won out over my sense of self-preservation and my knowledge that whichever one of you wins this is likely to win the game.

Further, I came into this game while burning out on dominions because wraithlord invited me. I decided if I was going to play I would do so relaxed, laid back, and not worry so much about winning or playing competetively. Otherwise I probably would never have chosen to play jomon. I had a good early expansion which I completely squandered due to the fact that I really couldn't care to try to win a war against any of my very friendly neighbors and my decision to prevent c'tis from being killed by atlantis. I don't really want to deal with killing wave upon wave of undead while I march through a useless wasteland with no food either.


Kuritza - No, I don't think what I am doing is unsportsmanlike. I am merely playing what seems to me to be the best choice to make at the time. I am not a competitive person, at all, I tend to play more as a spoiler, trying to bring down whichever nation is the strongest at the time (this was gath) rather than trying to actually win games. I don't have the patience or discipline to go through and actually win a game, and I know it. I tried it once and hated the game so much I didn't want to touch it and eventually pawned that game off on another player. So I play more to experiment and figure out if things will work how I think they will.

I am also NOT ermor's vassal. I see a vassal as being something much different than my arrangements with ermor make me out to be. Being someone's vassal requires a certain level of subservience that just does not exist in our relationship.

Besides, pan still has a decent chance of victory from what I can tell. It's not quite over yet.

[Kuritza]

So you spoiled this game for one competitive player to help another competitive player win the game, and you think its a fair and sportsmanlike thing to do.

I have no more questions, thank you. :)

[WraithLord]

You lost half of your SCs already?- But you only lost two of them. How come?
I think I was just somewhat lucky on first rounds of war. I also think that you are underrating your own nation. I told you that 1:1 we'd be dragged into a long attrition war but I was more like putting on a bold face in hopes of deterring you from attacking me.
I only declared war on you b/c Van was close to being wiped out, so I came to help him. Then you made a brilliant diplo move and signed a NAP with him - freeing you to annihilate me at your leisure.

I think you're exaggerating my strength to make everyone scared witless of me. I'm 100% sure I haven't even remotely seen what you have going. Everyone has a huge research lead on me. So while I bring tons of chaff to the field you or anyone else can counter that with high end summons and spells.

As for Jomon's help it was planned ages ago. If he wants to use this war to get larger and bigger he can do just that. However that's not the point - We both are sticking to our plan, word and agreements. Said plan may result in our demise or in your defeat.
After that - to each his own.

Last, I did all in my power to stop this war after your NAP with Van and you know that. You decided to follow through and now, alas, there's no turning back.

[WraithLord]

So you spoiled this game for one competitive player to help another competitive player win the game, and you think its a fair and sportsmanlike thing to do.

I have no more questions, thank you. :)

That's a load of crap. You judge him w/o being a part of the game and with bias from past experience. If I were in his shoes I'd have done the same with the only distinction that I'd be more hungry and passionate about winning after that. Would you then tell me the same?

My Ermor in this game is not that overpowering. I'd have no problem wiping it out had I been controlling Gath. It's way way back in research and chaff can only get you so far.

[Dimaz]

But you only lost two of them
Well, not exactly half, but not exactly two.
I think I was just somewhat lucky on first rounds of war.
I think I had to prepare my SCs to fight Midgard, not Ermor. And I hadn't time to switch everything to new style. You can call it luck. I call it bad planning from my side.
Then you made a brilliant diplo move and signed a NAP with him
I made no brilliant moves, it was the only way for me to not being wiped out in 5 turns. And I lost non-negligible part of income in the process.
I think you're exaggerating my strength to make everyone scared witless of me
I see that everyone was scared way before I started to exxagerate your strength :)
Everyone has a huge research lead on me
That's partially true, but Gath is the last among them (not taking into account Midgard due to obvious reasons).
I did all in my power to stop this war after your NAP with Van and you know that
However you knew that Jomon will help you, with that knowledge I'd definitely cancel our war. So you didn't want to stop it, after all, all you had to do is to say that it won't be 1-on-1 war for me, without even mentioning who is your ally.

[rdonj]

So you spoiled this game for one competitive player to help another competitive player win the game, and you think its a fair and sportsmanlike thing to do.

I have no more questions, thank you. :)

I do not like games ending in a foregone conclusion. In the case of this game, it was a foregone conclusion that gath was going to win even if ermor attacked him. I feel no shame in attacking the leading player to prevent their obvious impending victory and gath was quickly nearing the point at which he would be completely unbeatable.

Of course you are going to point out that that puts ermor as the next most likely person to win the game, and that is quite possible as I've said previously. But if it comes to that I would still rather see the second-strongest nation win than the strongest one. It is more fun for me if the underdog wins, even if that underdog happens to be LA Ermor.

[rdonj]

Everyone has a huge research lead on me
That's partially true, but Gath is the last among them (not taking into account Midgard due to obvious reasons).

Yes, however gath is quickly shaping up to be the game's research leader with its astonishing recent climb in RP per turn.


I did all in my power to stop this war after your NAP with Van and you know that
However you knew that Jomon will help you, with that knowledge I'd definitely cancel our war. So you didn't want to stop it, after all, all you had to do is to say that it won't be 1-on-1 war for me, without even mentioning who is your ally.

I dunno about that, he didn't have a whole lot of choices for allies. It was either me, midgard or maybe atlantis. Two of those are not in any shape to be waging war against you. Fantomen hasn't been able to recruit from her capitol for so long now it's not funny, and you just finished beating midgard bloody. That only leaves me relatively intact and strong enough to do a decent amount of damage to you. Saying he had an ally would have been as good as telling you who it was. I'm surprised you didn't figure it out last turn anyway, after I took aethyr's province.

[Kuritza]

That's a load of crap. You judge him w/o being a part of the game and with bias from past experience. If I were in his shoes I'd have done the same with the only distinction that I'd be more hungry and passionate about winning after that. Would you then tell me the same?

My Ermor in this game is not that overpowering. I'd have no problem wiping it out had I been controlling Gath. It's way way back in research and chaff can only get you so far.

Careful with your wording please. I didnt call anyone names in *this* thread, and surely I didnt say anything disrespectful about you, hmm? :)
I make my judgement about this game being the one who played it while Dimaz was away, and who has received all turns ever since. I know enough about this game.
And of course, I do know enough about Dominions in general, LA Ermor strength in particular, and your own capability not in the least - to say that you are the only possible winner of this game now. If time will prove me wrong, send me a letter (I think I'll stop reading these forums after Lapis and Setsumi games end) and I will post my amends in this very thread.
But I think this game will now become yet another proof that LA Ermor is still a very special nation that should be treated with caution. Time will show.

[Dimaz]

I'm surprised you didn't figure it out last turn anyway, after I took aethyr's province
I was keeping to tell myself that you're going to grab some border Ermor lands or attack Midgard. Seriously, I was really unprepared that after all the crap that happened in Setsumi thread someone wants to repeat the same scenario.

[WraithLord]

That's a load of crap. You judge him w/o being a part of the game and with bias from past experience. If I were in his shoes I'd have done the same with the only distinction that I'd be more hungry and passionate about winning after that. Would you then tell me the same?

My Ermor in this game is not that overpowering. I'd have no problem wiping it out had I been controlling Gath. It's way way back in research and chaff can only get you so far.

Careful with your wording please. I didnt call anyone names in *this* thread, and surely I didnt say anything disrespectful about you, hmm? :)
I make my judgement about this game being the one who played it while Dimaz was away, and who has received all turns ever since. I know enough about this game.
And of course, I do know enough about Dominions in general, LA Ermor strength in particular, and your own capability not in the least - to say that you are the only possible winner of this game now. If time will prove me wrong, send me a letter (I think I'll stop reading these forums after Lapis and Setsumi games end) and I will post my amends in this very thread.
But I think this game will now become yet another proof that LA Ermor is still a very special nation that should be treated with caution. Time will show.

Yes. Sorry about wording. No disrespect intended. However wrapping an insulting or demeaning phrase in nice words doesn't make it any less so and that's how I interpreted your messages to rdonj.

About LA Ermor winning this game, the current situation if far from guaranteeing any such thing. At this point that's just propaganda aimed to get everyone to fight me so that Gath would win :)

[Kuritza]

I didnt insult Rdonj, just offered him to think about his actions from other players perspective.

My words are propaganda, your words are propaganda, and the truth is, as usual, out there. Strangely enough, when it will be revealed, it will match my words. Why? Because LA Ermor is such LA Ermor. :)

I repeat my promise to post my amends here if it won't.

[WraithLord]

"
Well, not exactly half, but not exactly two.
"
Still didn't check current turn. How many did you lose?

"
I think I had to prepare my SCs to fight Midgard, not Ermor. And I hadn't time to switch everything to new style. You can call it luck. I call it bad planning from my side.
"
Hey, I was trying to be generous with you. Don't be so harsh on your self.

"
I made no brilliant moves, it was the only way for me to not being wiped out in 5 turns. And I lost non-negligible part of income in the process.
"
You know, this whole NAP was not really natural. Think nation C is being mauled and nearly killed by B. Then A comes to help C and C goes and signs a NAP with B. Strange. right?

"
I see that everyone was scared way before I started to exxagerate your strength :)
"
Not true.

"That's partially true, but Gath is the last among them (not taking into account Midgard due to obvious reasons).
"
common, you're closing the gap like a devil and has a what, twice or more lead on me?

"However you knew that Jomon will help you, with that knowledge I'd definitely cancel our war. So you didn't want to stop it, after all, all you had to do is to say that it won't be 1-on-1 war for me, without even mentioning who is your ally."
Partially true. Jomon wasn't and isn't in my pocket. Until I got a final confirmation I didn't know whether he'd live by his word or betray me like Van did (after I come to his help for crying out loud).

Look Dimaz, what are you trying to achieve here?- Make everyone fight me by spreading propaganda?- If so, I guess you're doing a good job. It's legit but I will try to point out any half truths or exaggerations you put.

[rdonj]

I'm surprised you didn't figure it out last turn anyway, after I took aethyr's province
I was keeping to tell myself that you're going to grab some border Ermor lands or attack Midgard. Seriously, I was really unprepared that after all the crap that happened in Setsumi thread someone wants to repeat the same scenario.

I did have the setsumi thread in mind while we were planning this. I knew there would be no way to avoid drawing comparison, and that there might be a bit of drama as a result. I still stand by my belief though that gath is and was the strongest nation and that without intervention you would have won no matter what anyone else did. Now I think there is at least some doubt as to the final outcome, which again I find preferable.

I was really worried my attacking that province would be a dead giveaway. Especially after my conversations with aethyr about it. Unfortunately my feisty little can openers didn't get a chance to take a crack at your SCs this turn :(

[WraithLord]

Dimaz, I now took a loot at the turn. You've got to be kidding me?- I counted on our borders something like 5 armies of yours, each led by anywhere from 2-4 kohen SCs + backup mage cadre.

Only now I realize how lucky I got on first round. To tell the truth I've no idea how to stop all these armies.
When first I realized about the NAP you signed with Midgard I was sure I made a mistake coming to his help. Now that I see some of your raw might I am sure I was barely there in time to stop you.
Also w/o Jomons help I'm toast :)

You can tell it anyway you like but these are the facts and my turns are saved so after the game is over it can all be validated.

[Kuritza]

Some thugs + several hundred undead + rigor mortis maybe? Hmm.... I dunno... Darkness? Ghost grip spam? I can think of a dozen ways to stop such armies as Ermor. Judging by graphs, research wont be a problem very soon. :)
Zeldor also complained that poor, weak Ermor chaff cant deal with teleporting SCs. Then, of course, it turned out that Rigor Mortis is still there, in the spellbook.

By the way, such rethorics... 'now that I see your raw might... we stopped them just in time...' - I believe it was used by every aggressor who cared about his public image over the history of mankind. :)

[WraithLord]

So now it's both propaganda and trying to gauge how far am I from rigor mortis and darkness? ;)

Yes, thank you pointing the aggressor thing out. You caught me red handed, I was reading all this in the practical guide to the modern aggressor, it's all there in the PR chapter :D

[Dimaz]

Sorry guys I'm not following your very interesting discussion, I recently got some important task to do on work. As to what I wanted when posted here, well first I was almost sure that I want to turn AI and let you all have fun, I'm not so sure now. That's all.

[Dimaz]

About my army size, wow, and you dare to say I'm exxagerating??? I can tell you the exact count of my kohen SCs if you are so interested, and it's less than your minimal estimate. Also practice says that in the current equip they are not so useful against your hordes, right?
Anyway this 'propaganda' from both sides doesn't change anything. I just hope you have fun, because I'm not.

[WraithLord]

Look Dimaz. You see things from your end and I mine. I feel bad that you feel bad b/c this is not real war. It's a game and I value friendship above any given game. Now you played your cards and I mine. I think you are overpowering and you think that I am. Now we are locked in war. No amount of argument or complaints will change that.
I was having some fun until now, but knowing that a fellow player ,that I value and respect, is upset is not my idea of fun.

Honestly, what would you have me do?- Do you want me to surrender the game?- Would that make you feel any better?

Bickering over game moves is tiresome and makes me start hating the game b/c it feels more like a chore than actually fun. Oh, maybe I'll make it my last diplo game. The RAND games are so blissfully quiet.

[Dimaz]

The RAND games are so blissfully quiet
Yep.
Well, I think I calmed down a bit. Now I looked in detail through my turn and see how you managed to kill/scare my thugs and I have even more concern, but in general I feel better. I don't think I'll be able to win this war, but I'll continue fighting. Maybe I'll have some fun after all, since this is the only reason to play the game in the first place.
2rdonj I now think I understand your point, and while I certainly disagree with it, you have your right to play as you wish and have fun.

[Aethyr]

What an intersting turn of events. Although it will most likely mean our destruction, Midgard hereby cancels its NAPs with both Ermor and Jomon.

[rdonj]

Given that the terms of our NAP agreement stated we were to not fight each other until either we or ermor were destroyed, I think it might be a good idea to come up with terms for when we are actually allowed to attack one another :D

[Aethyr]

Diplomacy allowed.
NAP's are not considered binding.

Indeed. :D

We should come to a mutually agreed upon set of conditions.

[rdonj]

Diplomacy allowed.
NAP's are not considered binding.

Indeed. :D

We should come to a mutually agreed upon set of conditions.

Oh, I know. I've been keeping that in the back of my head at all times. I was beginning to wonder just how many people remembered :)

I agree with your terms, they don't seem unreasonable to me.

[WraithLord]

Aethyr, all's fair in love and war but I gotta to tell you I ain't seen the like of what you did yet.
You were on the brink of death when Gath rolled over you and back then you did not object much to me coming to your help ;)
I could have and indeed should have waited for Gath to finish you but I really wanted to help you since I perceived you as the poor underdog. I actually declared war on Gath way before I felt ready for it, I literally rushed to your help.
Then, the minute I declared war on Gath you went and signed a secret NAP with him. Then when I was shrewd enough to smell the stink you came clean and was promising me that it's ok, you will not attack me. Of course you won't since all I wanted to do is help you...
Only to break your word in an instant now. Wow, that's low.

I don't mind if Dimaz wins but I'd be damned if I won't do my best to bring my undead minions in position to spank your traitorous vans :)

[Dimaz]

Wow, even more drama here :) I see everybody tries to have as much fun as possible out of this game :)

[WraithLord]

I propose a toast to all but mainly to Pan who's smart enough to let all have at each other.
:cheers:

[rdonj]

*raises a glass*

[Aethyr]

@ WL, and the "fiddler" plays on...:smirk:

Re: Pan's involvement, I hope he does choose to enter the fray as the evil Ermor/Jomon alliance must be opposed! :)

For that matter, TC, C'tis, you had better rethink your priorities because you are cetain to be next. This is your lone opportunity to avoid the enevitable.

Death to the tyrants! :D

[rdonj]

Now, now. C'tis and TC have nothing to fear from me. C'tis is still under my protection, inasmuch as I can provide it, and TC has nothing to fear from me so long as he stands by the oaths we have sworn to one another. Our northern cousins are fine and noble warriors, whom he have a great deal of respect for. No northeastern power need fear the might of jomon, for it is directed straight at the hearts of the great enemies, Gath and Midgard. No northwestern power need fear the might of jomon either for that matter, as our reach is not so great!

[Dimaz]

The weekend was a bit busy and I want to test some things but I'm not sure I'll have enough time today, can we add 24h delay to this turn? I'll do my best to send the turn today.

[WraithLord]

done :)

[WraithLord]

@ WL, and the "fiddler" plays on...:smirk:
...
Death to the tyrants! :D

First, it's actually the piano that I play :D

Second, the tyrants are those man eating blood sacrificing giant savages who not so long ago ravaged your lands unopposed ;)

Seriously though this drama has perhaps gone too far. I was upset at the time and probably retorted too sharply. I still don't understand that rapid side switching but I respect your judgment.
You should know though that you're in a lose lose situation. If I win you lose and if Gath wins you lose (or some such ominous declaration meant to despair you ;) )

[Dimaz]

WL, you missed the point. Pangaea wins, everyone else loses. Just as you foretold :)

[WraithLord]

haha.

so we either do that :yield: or that :shake:.

*Put on my best face* Peace?:o -

What? Who said that???-Not me ;)

[Dimaz]

Can you postpone by 12 hours, please?

[WraithLord]

sure.

[WraithLord]

Postponed by 48 hours due to player's request.

[rdonj]

I know better than to do that :(. I realized my mistake as soon as I opened the last turn file. No idea how I managed to miss that the first time around.

[Dimaz]

What, pearls on that golem? Well, I forgot to change orders on my Gadol that was going to kill your 3 Shuras, so we are both in the same boat of stupid mistakes )

[rdonj]

Yes.

I did notice that, thought it was pretty bizarre. I wasn't sure whether you meant to take out the shuras but forgot to script your guy or what. Glad I know now. But still not quite the same category of mistake I don't think, my golem was pretty expensive.

I suppose you must have run tests and it worked, but I'm a bit surprised that kohen thinks he can kill 3 of my shura. I guess with the herald lance and quickness he has a decent shot though, especially if my shura are scripted poorly.

[Dimaz]

Yes he killes them in test easily.

[Meglobob]

:doh: Thats for last turn!:o

:doh::doh::doh:Thats for this turn!:o:o:o

Currently I am doing a really good job of defeating myself!

[WraithLord]

But, but what happened?- Can you share the juicy details?

hat's off for Dimaz. I hope you liked them fried bones :)

[Dimaz]

Blinded & chopped prophet is the best. I was really worried about that 90+ hp fire-immune 25+ def 25+ prot guy. Fortunately I messed with orders too much and sent Light of the Star shadowseer in stealth so maguses abandoned their script and blinded him on approach instead :).
But that was at least somewhat planned. And I've been really surprised watching my slingers slicing Jomon's shura&fully armed golem (marble, vine, frostbrand) to death. I start to like those guys even more, 2 attacks can really make a difference it seems.

[WraithLord]

Good :)
And who said Gath is finished? ;)

[Dimaz]

I never said anything about Gath finished, only that helping LA Ermor is a bad idea :) and that my losses were very high (and that's true, I still lost much more in terms of gems/gold in our war).

[rdonj]

Blinded & chopped prophet is the best. I was really worried about that 90+ hp fire-immune 25+ def 25+ prot guy. Fortunately I messed with orders too much and sent Light of the Star shadowseer in stealth so maguses abandoned their script and blinded him on approach instead :).
But that was at least somewhat planned. And I've been really surprised watching my slingers slicing Jomon's shura&fully armed golem (marble, vine, frostbrand) to death. I start to like those guys even more, 2 attacks can really make a difference it seems.

Yes, that was a real highlight of this new turn. I've never used golems before and I'm really struggling to see them in a good light after this game :P

[WraithLord]

Granted a 48h extension request.

[rdonj]

Sigh. Not even an affliction, even with the curse? Just not fair :(

[Dimaz]

Hm? Are you talking about those stupid green beasts? Well, of course that was extensively tested and the risks were absolutely negligible. Green beasts will die. All of them.

[rdonj]

Of course. Well, I keep hoping, hopefully someday one of these attempts to find a way to ward off big angry giants will pay off.

[Aethyr]

WL, may I have a six hour extension for the current turn? Thanks

[WraithLord]

Why, certainly. Consider it done.

[rdonj]

Wraith - if it gets close to the deadline, and you're awake, and I'm not in, could you postpone for me? I'm having internet issues right now due to weather and my ISP sucking. Hopefully I'll be in before you see this.

[Dimaz]

Uh oh.
It seems finally I was able to mess everything completely, sending turn in YARG and thinking it was Sharivar.
Usually I'm against rollbacks but in my position every turn is really important. Fortunately the losses due to staling in current turn are not so ugly, but the worst is that some important things were not done.
If it's possible I'd like to ask to rehost with my 2h in (which was already completed btw. with >2 hrs spent on it). Unfortunately my old 2h was overwritten with new turn, but I *promise* to redo the same 2h as what I did before hosting.
We can arrange it in the following way: I send my 2h to WL, who rolls back and sends in my 2h and immediately hosts. That way no one else will be able to modify the turns so the outcome for all others will be the same (+/-random), and I trust WL too.
Or we can just continue. As I said the losses are acceptable.

[WraithLord]

Dimaz, I'm sorry to hear about that mess.
However, I really hate rollbacks and my position is consistent and known in that regard. I only supported rollbacks when either the game crashed during hosting or a serious unknown bug was discovered.

I am against a rollback in this situation. I'm sorry. This has nothing to do with the fact we're at war. My opinion re. rollbacks is the same even if that would have happened to my ally or myself. Would have been a bummer but I'd have to accept it nonetheless.

[Dimaz]

Well, it seems I'll need some extra time to adapt some new plans and probably test some things out. Can you please add 24h for this turn?
2 All
Which reminds me. I'm tired of typing "Pendant of Luck" etc in map file to test things properly. So I decided to make some GUI which should allow one to setup a test really quick by adding commanders/items/units and selecting research levels in some user-friendly way for both sides and convert all this to map+mod files automatically, then run the test itself. Actually I don't know many of existing dom tools so maybe something on these lines already exists, then please tell me about it so I'll just use it. And if not, what do you think about it?

[rdonj]

Very interesting idea. I think something like that could be very useful, and probably pretty popular.

[WraithLord]

Sure, I'll add 24.

I'm not testing anything myself so can't help in this department. I prefer to rely on memory of past errors, quickly finish the turn and save more time for fun things like toll the hounds :)

[Meglobob]

Yea, I rely on experience too (I like doing quick turns, more fun), but I am sure such a tool would be useful too many dom3 players and very welcome.

[WraithLord]

IW devs removed the battle sim on purpose. I wonder why?

Come to think of it I kind of appreciate that, since otherwise I'd be sorely tempted to spend more time on tests, and let's face it - it's not like we're in a pro league and getting fame and money for our achievements ;)

[Sombre]

I actually am. The rest of you chumpzillas may not be though.

In my native country I'm on top 10 lists. People run screaming from me in the street. I'm even in the news fairly often, though they usually just have slightly dodgy looking artist's impressions of me. I assume this is because my dom3 achievements are recognised.

[Dimaz]

Well, I tend to do more tests lately. Since the basics were understood long ago and many finer details are already understood too, usually I have some ideas what to do in different situations. However it's hard to tell in advance what ideas are better or work at all and what are total crap. And even when I have some knowledge from previous games of similar situations, still there are some deviations which can be of great importance.
WL, you described how you make your turns some time ago, and I have to say you're much more dedicated to the game than, for example, me, with all those notes and such. So I think we both try to do our best, just use different tools.

[Meglobob]

I actually am. The rest of you chumpzillas may not be though.

In my native country I'm on top 10 lists. People run screaming from me in the street. I'm even in the news fairly often, though they usually just have slightly dodgy looking artist's impressions of me. I assume this is because my dom3 achievements are recognised.

No, its because you run around town dressed as a bog beast armed with stink bombs...:D

[rdonj]

I don't test either, though when I heard about the high likelihood of three shura being annihilated by one guy I thought they could kill, I was very tempted to! However, the amount of work I would have to go through to accomplish it decided for me. So I just believed you and stopped using them as raiders :P If your tool existed and was user friendly, I would have probably experimented some to try to see if there was anything I could do to get around that.

The only time I've run into what seemed like extensive simming of battles was in the NvV series, particularly the second game with TheDemon. My impression from reading the vet team's boards was that he simmed probably every important battle before it happened. I don't know how common that is among members of this community though.

Sombre - Hey! I saw you on the news today. Raising soulless at your local cemetary for use in your dom game. That's what I call dedication.

[WraithLord]

Sombre, the important question is, does it help with the girls? :cool:


Dimaz, your dedication to the game is perfectly ok, even admirable. And you're right, I was quite dedicated to the game in the past, I made more notes and gave more thought to my turns. It took me a long while to understand that I'm *too* much dedicated and when I started cutting down on the extra stuff per turn I suddenly had more free time to do other fun things. To each his own and most of us go through different stages WRT to mostly anything. So do your magic testing thing as much as you like so long as it suites you.
I could stop here but I want to extend a friendly advise, from someone who has walked the extreme dedication path in the past, don't spend too much of your precious time on the game. Not worth it. Don't stray too far from the fun factor the game's supposed to provide :)

[Dimaz]

Hehe, Qwerty was really top of it. I play more relaxed now, too.

[WraithLord]

OMG. QWERTY. I shudder at the memory of that game. Thanks for bringing that up! ;)

You sign up for a team game, then your partner loses interest so you end up playing two nations on a huge map against top tier players. Seriously - I spent insane amount of time on this game.

Now I try not to allow the dominions monster to devour too much of my life. Stay put dominions, you bad MM heavy (yet deliciously addictive) game!

[Dimaz]

WL, your manifestations seem to have hidden targeting bonus. 2/3 critical mages of 15 commanders in 3 casts. I should consider using more bodyguards.

[WraithLord]

Yes. That was really uncanny. The last mark was the cream of the pie.

Oh and if you're gonna conquer me and Jomon you better hurry up or you'd be facing them tree hugers all around you ;)

[WraithLord]

48h extension given.

[WraithLord]

And a 36h extension given.

[rdonj]

Weird, I just got a message that sharivar is hosting in 6 hours, even though there's still almost 48 hours left on the clock.

[WraithLord]

yes. weird.
This is the current status:
"
Game: Sharivar1
Turn number 57
Next turn due: 09:00 GMT on Monday February 22nd

C'tis 2h file received
Ermor 2h file received
Gath Waiting for 2h file
Jomon Waiting for 2h file
Midgard 2h file received
Pangaea Waiting for 2h file
T'ien Ch'i 2h file received
"

[Meglobob]

Its possible Llamaserver is ignoring postponements and may host at 2200 hrs tonight. I doubt wether I will get my turn in by then, in which case I will ask for a rollback, due to faulty Lamaserver.

Just letting everyone know in advance.

[rdonj]

Understood and accepted.

[WraithLord]

I've re-instructed the server to postpone. I hope it catches.
If not, then I agree to a rollback.
MB, in case the server hosts I'd like to ask to you not look at the new turn. I'll consult with llamabeast on how to perform the rollback with all the original turn files + you own.
Also, the server shows that Dimaz has not sent his turn, so in case of a premature host I'd like to ask the same of you Dimaz.

I hate rollbacks but this may be one of those circumstances that call for it.

[rdonj]

Yes, I agree, having two of the major nations staling for no good reason would be excessive warping of the game. Normally I am pretty against rollbacks also, but I have no problem with one if it turns out that the game hosts earlier than expected here.

[Dimaz]

Just saw the issue. I have no time to finish the turn now, so let's hope it will host correctly. If not, I too request rollback. I promise not to look into incoming turn if it hosts today.

[Meglobob]

Well, I have managed to get a turn in, which I am happy with, but if it does host early, I will support a rollback for Dimaz, as tech problems are the only real justification for rollbacks in my opinion.

[WraithLord]

server pulled through. No call for RB :)

[Dimaz]

And we can finally enjoy the new turn :)

[13lackGu4rd]

well, I've taken over Jomon from rdonj cause he needed to leave his current games. hopefully I can survive at least for a little while in this seemingly very intense late game.

[rdonj]

I got an email reminder saying that sharivar was hosting soon... is this just the llamaserver acting up, or does blackguard not have control yet?

[WraithLord]

well, I've taken over Jomon from rdonj cause he needed to leave his current games. hopefully I can survive at least for a little while in this seemingly very intense late game.

Welcome on board 13lackGu4rd. I've got your email from rdonj and set it up in the server. I've also requested for the turn to be resent to you. Can you please confirm that you got it?

Guys, I've added 48h for the sake of 13lackGu4rd. Please be patient and allow him this extra time to get his bearings and submit the turn.

[13lackGu4rd]

well, I've taken over Jomon from rdonj cause he needed to leave his current games. hopefully I can survive at least for a little while in this seemingly very intense late game.

Welcome on board 13lackGu4rd. I've got your email from rdonj and set it up in the server. I've also requested for the turn to be resent to you. Can you please confirm that you got it?

Guys, I've added 48h for the sake of 13lackGu4rd. Please be patient and allow him this extra time to get his bearings and submit the turn.

yeah I've got the turn, taking my time because well, I've just landed in the middle of a very intense late game :P don't wanna start doing stupid things right from the get go... :eek: so anyway I'll send in my turns later today

[WraithLord]

I've set the host interval to 120h.
We're now officially on cruise control :)

Oh, and I watched from afar the epic rise and fall of Atlantis, the frozen nation. GG Fantomen, was great to have you on board.

[WraithLord]

Apparently, llamaserver is shutdown until it gets a chance to upgrade. This suggests that we'll all need to upgrade before submitting the current turn (or resubmit if needed).

[13lackGu4rd]

well, llamaserver is back up with the new patch, but for some reason it says I had a stale turn. anybody else had that? or what's the deal...? I did send my turn before the patch and resent it afterwards, so no reason for it to stale unless it's something to do with llamaserver itself... anyway due to the whole new patch mess I've kinda lost the timing of this game, so I'll need 24 hours from now to complete my turn, not sure when the timeline is, so if it'll pass than I'd ask for an extension.

[WraithLord]

"The next 2h file is due in by 22:26 GMT on Tuesday March 16th."
good enough?

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah that's great, any thoughts on the stale turn issue?

[WraithLord]

Did you upgrade?
Did you see the confirmation email from the server that he got your turn?
I wasn't aware that you staled but I did notice you were the last to send the turn - meaning the server showed your status as turn not sent. Perhaps you should have resent the turn.
Do you know how to check the game status on the server?

[13lackGu4rd]

I did receive the confirmation mail last turn, and I know how to check game status(as in who sent/not sent turns yet) on llamaserver. didn't check the status cause I received the confirmation mail last turn...

and yes, I did upgrade to the new patch...

[WraithLord]

Ooch. Sounds like a server glitch :(
I guess the server "lost" your turn after sending the confirmation.
I may suggest a best practice here: always double check the status on server, esp. after server shutdowns.

[13lackGu4rd]

going out of town until thursday, my current turn is in but I won't be able to play the next turn until I get back, so I'll need an extension...

[WraithLord]

NP. Just plz remind me closer to date.

[Dimaz]

Please add 12h delay for this turn.

[WraithLord]

Please ask sooner for extensions. I could just as well have missed your request since it's late night here.

12h added.

[Meglobob]

Can we set the game to host 2350 Sun, I have done most of my turn but I have a very busy saturday, so prefer to finish it in a relaxed fashion Sunday.

[WraithLord]

sure thing :)

24h added

[Dimaz]

WL, please add 24h again. It seems now I have time to do long turns only on weekends so the ideal hosting time would be Saturday night, so I make one turn on Saturday and one on Sunday :)

[WraithLord]

sure. would you like to add one day to turn around?

[Dimaz]

I think we better go with current schedule. I'll try to send delay requests early enough if I need it.

[Dimaz]

Um, I'm sorry to ask again, but it was decided that we will work this weekend since our company takes part in some exhibition next week and we have to finish some things before it starts, so I have to ask for another extension, but unfortunately I don't know when I'll be able to finish the turn... I think I'll have a free day somewhere in the middle of the next week. Can you just add a week extension to current turn and I'll send my turn as soon as I'll be able to finish it?

[WraithLord]

Dimaz, I've no problem with that.
I really hope the other players wouldn't mind too much. This can happen to any player and the game is at such a late stage that finding a sub for one turn doesn't make much sense.

Edit: I've added three days. Please just ping me later on if you find that it's not enough and I'll add more.

[Meglobob]

Hi Wraith,

Can you change the hosting time to late Sun, like around 2300 hrs? Saturdays are just too busy for me.

In fact can I have that as a standing order? Anytime hosting falls on a Saturday change it to late Sunday.

Thanks,

Meglob.

[WraithLord]

done.

re. standing order, I'll do my best but I suggest you remind me to make sure I don't forget.

[Meglobob]

Urgh!

Due to host Sat night again, can you change it to host Sun night, cheers.

[WraithLord]

done :)

[WraithLord]

Three astral mages of mine were mind hunted (and died) this turn. Does that make sense to you?- Should the mind hunter go feeble minded???

[Meglobob]

Three astral mages of mine were mind hunted (and died) this turn. Does that make sense to you?- Should the mind hunter go feeble minded???

Astral 1 40% sever mages cord
Astral 2 80% etc

What lvl in S magic did they have?:D Only 3S is 100% sure.

[WraithLord]

hihi, lvl 1. Go and have at them :D

Note to self, bring those goddaxn s2 mages to front :doh:

[Dimaz]

Yes, it happens sometimes. 40% usually keeps MH off if there are no healers. Actually, in CBM the pearls shortage also a big problem for massive MH (well, at least for me).

[WraithLord]

Bah, Pan's rampant forests probably yield tons of astral gems stolen from the world's very ether. All the sensible axe wielding nations should help do some serious foliage trimming ;)

[Meglobob]

Bah, Pan's rampant forests probably yield tons of astral gems stolen from the world's very ether. All the sensible axe wielding nations should help do some serious foliage trimming ;)

Pan is life, Ermor is death and desolation.

Gath and Tien Chi may be happy to live out there lives as mindless skeletons at Ermor's beck and call but Pan will never bend the knee.

It has already been discussed in the groves and forests, the majority of our might and wrath will be directed at Ermor in the hope that they can be stopped and another world avoid becoming a lifeless husk...

[WraithLord]

Sounds cool ;)

Since Ermor has little raiding capabilities and it's armies move at the speed of a crippled turtle, the least it can do for it's friends is take a good beating and maybe, just maybe, allow them to burn those hated forests to the ground :)

[Meglobob]

Due to host Sat night again, can you put it to Sun night?

Cheers.

[WraithLord]

done.

[WraithLord]

per player request "Hosting postponed for Sharivar1 by 12 hours. The game will now host at 11:35 GMT on Saturday June 5th."

[WraithLord]

21h extension granted.

[WraithLord]

Per player request: Hosting postponed for Sharivar1 by 48 hours. The game will now host at 00:10 GMT on Friday June 18th.

[WraithLord]

Houston, we have a problem:

"Hi. On trying to host Sharivar1 just now, Dominions crashed. This is not a LlamaServer issue, but rather Dominions itself crashed with a "Nagot gick fel" error.

These errors are normally caused by a (generally inexplicable) problem with one of the players' 2h files. Therefore the LlamaServer moved all your 2h files away before hosting again. This is why you will receive a new turn file in which you've staled.

There are two options from here. Either you can treat the stale turn as a random event and carry on with the game, or you can roll back the turn and try to host again. If you try the latter your game admin will have to do the rollback via the admin options on the LlamaServer website, and you will all have to do your turns again. Note that in this case it is _really important_ that you actually do redo your turn, rather than just sending in the same one again (which people sometimes seem to do because they don't believe me). If you just send in the same file, hosting will simply fail again.

I hope you manage to get the game back on course, whichever option you go for.
"
I personally didn't get any .trn file.
I think we need discuss and maybe vote how to proceed.

[WraithLord]

OMG, the server has deleted our game :(

I need to get out of home now but I'll contact llamabeast when I'm back.

[Meglobob]

Its all ok now Wraith but make sure you change the timer, might struggle to do my turn in 24hrs...:D

[WraithLord]

The admin pwd for this game has been altered (probably by server glitch) - so for now my host powers are doused and we're risking a mass stale :(

I'll ask llamabeast to help. Please do not submit the turns until the situation with the server is resolved. It would also be unfair for one player to submit a turn while all the rest stale and a rollback would create all kinds of complications. So let's just avoid getting there.

[llamabeast]

PW provided!

[WraithLord]

Thanks llamabeast!

FYI: Hosting postponed for Sharivar1 by 120 hours. The game will now host at 03:22 GMT on Friday June 25th.

Now that game is safe and sound -> *sleep*

[13lackGu4rd]

why am I still getting emails about Sharivar when I'm long dead...? I got new turns, hosting errors and all those other things going on when I'm not even in the game any more.

[WraithLord]

no clue here.

[Meglobob]

Looks like we have 12 hrs to do us next turn, now where are those boots of quickness?

[WraithLord]

Fixed :)

[WraithLord]

"Hosting postponed for Sharivar1 by 72 hours. The game will now host at 20:45 GMT on Wednesday July 7th."

Due to my birthday & moving to new house.