Ammo armoured vehicles

[Jack_Dionne]

Just wanted to point out that commanders at all levels including Platoon or Troop level depending on the military unit employs armoured vehicles to carry ammunition.

I am bringing this up because I just started playing campaign game in the PBEM mode and began to realize that with a core unit max of only 200 units you must spend wisely.

Some nationalities have armoured ammo vehicles with mg’s and some nationalities only have the ammo container which has to be loaded in a vehicle.

With this in mind why not have all the nationalities with some form of armoured ammunition/ammo vehicle. It would help with play balance in regards to core units for campaign games and put all the nationalities on an even playing field.

[DRG]

Well that's interesting. Here's the entire list of ammo carriers by nation in SPMBT. Please tell us exactly which.....

......."nationalities only have the ammo container which has to be loaded in a vehicle."



???? Given no nation has less that four "ammo carriers" in their respective OOB's

And why should we put say ..... the PLO..... on an equal footing with say....USMC ??

There may be a few that don't have an actual "armoured" carrier ( China , India and Pakistan I see right off the top that probably should and I've noted those on the to-do list and to check for any others ) but there is no nation that ONLY has an ammo container

Don

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
NationID NationName name slot
1 Egypt Ammo Container 589
1 Egypt Ammo Bunker 237
1 Egypt Ammo Truck 238
1 Egypt K61 AS 239
1 Egypt M548 Munitions 240
1 Egypt Ammo Dump 241
1 Egypt Ammo Ship 535
1 Egypt Ammo Wagon 588
2 Poland K61 Munitions 707
2 Poland Ammo Bunker 229
2 Poland Ammo Truck 230
2 Poland Ammo Carrier 231
2 Poland Ammo Truck 232
2 Poland Ammo Dump 233
2 Poland T-34/85 WPT 241
2 Poland Ammo Wagon 600
2 Poland Ammo Container 601
3 Syria Ammo Bunker 594
3 Syria Ammo Dump 239
3 Syria Ammo Truck 240
3 Syria Ammo Carrier 241
3 Syria Ammo Wagon 547
3 Syria Ammo Container 548
4 Israel Ammo Container 376
4 Israel M3 Ammo Carrier 371
4 Israel Ammo Truck 372
4 Israel M258 Alpha 373
4 Israel Ammo Dump 374
4 Israel Ammo Bunker 375
5 Japan Ammo Container 336
5 Japan Ammo Truck 332
5 Japan Ammo Dump 333
5 Japan Ammo Bunker 334
5 Japan M548 Munitions 335
6 France Ammo Bunker 575
6 France Ammo Container 422
6 France Ammo Truck 423
6 France VAB VPM 424
6 France Ammo Dump 425
7 Great Britain Ammo Dump 391
7 Great Britain Ammo Container 385
7 Great Britain Ammo Bunker 388
7 Great Britain Ammo Carrier 389
7 Great Britain Stalwart 390
8 PLO Ammo Container 253
8 PLO Ammo Bunker 239
8 PLO Ammo Truck 240
8 PLO Ammo Dump 241
8 PLO Supply Ship 242
8 PLO Ammo Wagon 252
9 Jordan Ammo Container 253
9 Jordan Ammo Bunker 229
9 Jordan Ammo Truck 230
9 Jordan Ammo Carrier 231
9 Jordan Ammo Dump 232
9 Jordan Ammo Wagon 252
10 Iran Ammo Container 523
10 Iran M113 Ammo 206
10 Iran Boragh Ammo 207
10 Iran Ammo Truck 230
10 Iran Ammo Carrier 231
10 Iran Ammo Dump 232
10 Iran Ammo Bunker 233
10 Iran M3 Ammo Carrier 234
10 Iran Ammo Wagon 522
11 Russia Ammo Container 996
11 Russia Munitions Truck 230
11 Russia MT-LB Munition 231
11 Russia BTR-50 Munition 232
11 Russia Ammo Dump 237
11 Russia Ammo Bunker 238
11 Russia K61 Munitions 773
12 USA Ammo Container 847
12 USA Ammo Truck 230
12 USA Ammo Carrier 232
12 USA Ammo Dump 251
12 USA Ammo Bunker 255
12 USA Ammo Truck 312
12 USA M992 FAASV 343
12 USA M-548 Ammo Carr 523
12 USA M3 Ammo Carrier 845
13 USMC Ammo Container 304
13 USMC Ammo Dump 229
13 USMC Ammo Truck 230
13 USMC M548 Ammo Carr 298
13 USMC Ammo Bunker 299
13 USMC Ammo Amtrac 300
13 USMC Ammo Amtrac 301
13 USMC Ammo Amtrac 302
13 USMC M3 Ammo Carrier 303
14 China Ammo Container 666
14 China Ammo Truck 230
14 China Ammo Dump 231
14 China Ammo Bunker 597
14 China Ammo Wagon 665
15 Australia Ammo Container 294
15 Australia Ammo Bunker 290
15 Australia Ammo Carrier 291
15 Australia Ammo Dump 292
15 Australia Stalwart 293
16 Gulf States Ammo Dump 232
16 Gulf States Ammo Container 228
16 Gulf States Ammo Bunker 229
16 Gulf States Ammo Truck 230
16 Gulf States M548 Ammo Carr 231
17 Iraq Ammo Wagon 589
17 Iraq Ammo Bunker 319
17 Iraq Ammo Truck 320
17 Iraq MT Ammo Carrier 321
17 Iraq Ammo Dump 322
17 Iraq Ammo Container 323
18 India Ammo Container 602
18 India Ammo Bunker 229
18 India Ammo Truck 230
18 India Ammo Dump 231
18 India Supply Mules 232
18 India Ammo Ship 233
18 India Ammo Wagon 601
19 N Korea Ammo Container 578
19 N Korea Ammo Bunker 229
19 N Korea Ammo Truck 230
19 N Korea MT Ammo Carrier 231
19 N Korea Ammo Dump 232
19 N Korea Ammo Ship 233
19 N Korea Ammo Wagon 577
20 S Korea Ammo Wagon 592
20 S Korea Ammo Bunker 229
20 S Korea Ammo Truck 230
20 S Korea Ammo Dump 231
20 S Korea M3 Ammo Carrier 232
20 S Korea M-548 Ammo Carr 233
20 S Korea Ammo Container 234
21 Taiwan Ammo Container 608
21 Taiwan Ammo Bunker 229
21 Taiwan Ammo Truck 230
21 Taiwan Ammo Dump 231
21 Taiwan Ammo Wagon 607
22 Mujahadeen Ammo Wagon 242
22 Mujahadeen Ammo Bunker 229
22 Mujahadeen Ammo Dump 230
22 Mujahadeen Supply Mules 231
22 Mujahadeen Ammo Container 232
22 Mujahadeen Ammo Truck 233
23 NVA Ammo Container 607
23 NVA Ammo Depot 227
23 NVA Ammo Truck 228
23 NVA Ammo Bunker 229
23 NVA Ammo Carrier 231
23 NVA Ammo Dump 232
23 NVA Ammo Cart 606
24 ARVN Ammo Container 498
24 ARVN Ammo Truck 230
24 ARVN Ammo Carrier 231
24 ARVN Ammo Dump 232
24 ARVN Ammo Ship 233
24 ARVN Ammo Bunker 234
24 ARVN Renault UE Muni 489
24 ARVN M548 Ammo Carr 490
24 ARVN Ammo Cart 497
25 Pakistan Ammo Container 563
25 Pakistan Ammo Bunker 228
25 Pakistan Supply Mules 229
25 Pakistan Ammo Truck 230
25 Pakistan Ammo Dump 231
25 Pakistan Ammo Wagon 562
26 Afghanistan Ammo Wagon 242
26 Afghanistan Ammo Bunker 229
26 Afghanistan Ammo Dump 230
26 Afghanistan Supply Mules 231
26 Afghanistan Ammo Container 232
26 Afghanistan Ammo Truck 233
27 Belgium Ammo Container 262
27 Belgium Ammo Bunker 229
27 Belgium Ammo Truck 230
27 Belgium Ammo Dump 231
27 Belgium Ammo Wagon 261
28 Netherlands Ammo Container 388
28 Netherlands M548 Ammo Carr 231
28 Netherlands Ammo Ship 232
28 Netherlands Ammo Bunker 233
28 Netherlands Ammo Dump 234
28 Netherlands Ammo Truck 235
28 Netherlands YP408 PW-V 236
28 Netherlands Bv 202 Ammo 385
28 Netherlands Bv 206 Ammo 386
28 Netherlands Ammo Wagon 387
29 Norway Ammo Dump 349
29 Norway Ammo Wagon 201
29 Norway Ammo Container 202
29 Norway Ammo Bunker 346
29 Norway M548 347
29 Norway Ammo Truck 348
30 Canada Kangaroo Ammo 265
30 Canada M548 259
30 Canada Ammo Bunker 260
30 Canada Ammo Carrier 261
30 Canada Bison Munitions 262
30 Canada Ammo Dump 263
30 Canada Ammo Container 264
31 Greece Ammo Container 268
31 Greece Ammo Truck 254
31 Greece Ammo Bunker 256
31 Greece Ammo Dump 257
31 Greece Ammo Ship 258
31 Greece M548 Munitions 266
31 Greece Ammo Wagon 267
32 Turkey Ammo Container 632
32 Turkey Ammo Bunker 201
32 Turkey Ammo Truck 202
32 Turkey Ammo Carrier 203
32 Turkey Ammo Dump 205
32 Turkey Ammo Ship 206
32 Turkey M548 Munitions 630
32 Turkey Ammo Wagon 631
33 Spain M548 Municion 238
33 Spain Ammo Wagon 207
33 Spain Ammo Bunker 234
33 Spain Ammo Dump 235
33 Spain Ammo Container 236
33 Spain Ammo Truck 237
34 Italy Ammo Bunker 477
34 Italy Ammo Dump 238
34 Italy Ammo Mules 239
34 Italy Ammo Carrier 240
34 Italy M 548 Munizioni 241
34 Italy Ammo Wagon 393
34 Italy Ammo Container 394
35 Denmark Ammo Container 233
35 Denmark Ammo Bunker 229
35 Denmark Ammo Truck 230
35 Denmark Ammo Dump 231
35 Denmark Ammo Ship 232
36 E Germany Ammo Wagon 547
36 E Germany Ammo Bunker 229
36 E Germany Ammo Truck 230
36 E Germany Ammo Carrier 231
36 E Germany Ammo Dump 232
36 E Germany K61 Munitions 254
37 Czechoslovakia Ammo Container 601
37 Czechoslovakia Ammo Bunker 229
37 Czechoslovakia Ammo Truck 230
37 Czechoslovakia Ammo Carrier 231
37 Czechoslovakia Ammo Dump 232
37 Czechoslovakia K61 Munitions 233
37 Czechoslovakia Ammo Wagon 600
38 Hungary Ammo Container 601
38 Hungary Ammo Bunker 229
38 Hungary Ammo Truck 230
38 Hungary Ammo Carrier 231
38 Hungary Ammo Dump 232
38 Hungary K61 Munitions 233
38 Hungary Ammo Wagon 600
39 Romania Ammo Container 573
39 Romania Ammo Bunker 229
39 Romania Ammo Truck 230
39 Romania Ammo Carrier 231
39 Romania Ammo Dump 232
39 Romania Ammo Wagon 572
40 Libya Ammo Container 563
40 Libya Ammo Bunker 319
40 Libya Ammo Dump 320
40 Libya Ammo Truck 321
40 Libya Ammo Wagon 562
41 Yugoslavia Ammo Wagon 595
41 Yugoslavia Ammo Container 589
41 Yugoslavia Ammo Ship 590
41 Yugoslavia Ammo Truck 591
41 Yugoslavia Ammo Carrier 592
41 Yugoslavia Ammo Dump 593
41 Yugoslavia Ammo Bunker 594
42 Green M548 Munitions 626
42 Green Ammo Bunker 229
42 Green Ammo Truck 230
42 Green Ammo Carrier 231
42 Green Ammo Dump 232
42 Green Ammo Ship 233
42 Green Ammo Wagon 423
42 Green Ammo Container 624
42 Green M9 Ammo Carrier 625
43 Red K61 Munitions 444
43 Red Ammo Bunker 229
43 Red Ammo Truck 230
43 Red Ammo Dump 231
43 Red Ammo Container 232
43 Red Ammo Wagon 428
44 W Germany Ammo Wagon 594
44 W Germany Ammo Bunker 135
44 W Germany Ammo Truck 136
44 W Germany Ammo Carrier 137
44 W Germany Ammo Dump 138
44 W Germany M548 Munitions 139
44 W Germany FAUN 912/21 148
44 W Germany MAN N 4640 149
44 W Germany Ammo Container 593
45 Argentina M9 Ammo Carrier 645
45 Argentina M548 Ammo Carr 228
45 Argentina Ammo Bunker 229
45 Argentina Ammo Truck 230
45 Argentina Ammo Carrier 231
45 Argentina Ammo Dump 232
45 Argentina VMSP 233
45 Argentina Ammo Container 507
45 Argentina Ammo Wagon 508
46 Austria Ammo Wagon 598
46 Austria Ammo Bunker 229
46 Austria Ammo Truck 230
46 Austria Ammo Dump 231
46 Austria Ammo Container 597
47 Cyprus Ammo Container 601
47 Cyprus Ammo Bunker 235
47 Cyprus Ammo Truck 236
47 Cyprus Ammo Dump 238
47 Cyprus Ammo Wagon 600
48 Brazil Ammo Container 513
48 Brazil Ammo Bunker 229
48 Brazil Ammo Truck 230
48 Brazil VBT 2028 Ammo 231
48 Brazil Ammo Carrier 232
48 Brazil Ammo Dump 233
48 Brazil Ammo Wagon 512
49 Cuba Ammo Wagon 559
49 Cuba Ammo Bunker 319
49 Cuba Ammo Truck 320
49 Cuba BTR Carrier 321
49 Cuba MTLB Carrier 322
49 Cuba Ammo Dump 323
49 Cuba Ammo Container 324
50 Algeria Ammo Wagon 579
50 Algeria Renault UE Muni 479
50 Algeria Ammo Bunker 480
50 Algeria Ammo Truck 481
50 Algeria Ammo Container 482
50 Algeria Ammo Dump 483
51 Slovakia Ammo Container 232
51 Slovakia Ammo Bunker 229
51 Slovakia Ammo Truck 230
51 Slovakia Ammo Dump 231
52 South Africa Ammo Container 600
52 South Africa Ammo Truck 231
52 South Africa Ammo Dump 232
52 South Africa Ammo Bunker 233
52 South Africa Supply Ship 235
52 South Africa Ratel Logistic 315
52 South Africa Ammo Wagon 527
52 South Africa Ammo Bunker 599
53 Switzerland Rpe Trspw 68 863
53 Switzerland Ammo Bunker 234
53 Switzerland Ammo Truck 235
53 Switzerland Ammo Carrier 68 236
53 Switzerland Ammo Dump 237
53 Switzerland Ammo Car. M548 238
53 Switzerland Mun. Container 596
53 Switzerland Munitionswagen 597
54 Thailand Ammo Wagon 597
54 Thailand M3 Ammo Carrier 269
54 Thailand Ammo Truck 270
54 Thailand Ammo Dump 271
54 Thailand Ammo Bunker 272
54 Thailand M548 Munitions 273
54 Thailand Ammo Container 596
55 Albania Ammo Container 322
55 Albania Ammo Wagon 241
55 Albania Ammo Bunker 319
55 Albania Ammo Truck 320
55 Albania Ammo Dump 321
56 Angola Ammo Wagon 562
56 Angola Ammo Bunker 319
56 Angola Ammo Truck 320
56 Angola BTR Carrier 321
56 Angola MTLB Carrier 322
56 Angola Ammo Dump 323
56 Angola Ammo Container 324
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina Ammo Container 595
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina Ammo Ship 590
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina Ammo Truck 591
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina Ammo Carrier 592
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina Ammo Dump 593
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina Ammo Bunker 594
58 Cambodia Ammo Wagon 584
58 Cambodia Ammo Bunker 229
58 Cambodia Ammo Truck 230
58 Cambodia M548 Ammo Carr 231
58 Cambodia Ammo Dump 232
58 Cambodia M3 Ammo Carrier 233
58 Cambodia Ammo Container 583
59 Chile Ammo Wagon 509
59 Chile Ammo Bunker 229
59 Chile Ammo Truck 230
59 Chile M548 Munitions 231
59 Chile Ammo Dump 232
59 Chile Ammo Ship 233
59 Chile Ammo Container 508
60 Croatia Ammo Container 595
60 Croatia Ammo Ship 590
60 Croatia Ammo Truck 591
60 Croatia Ammo Carrier 592
60 Croatia Ammo Dump 593
60 Croatia Ammo Bunker 594
61 Nigeria Ammo Wagon 559
61 Nigeria Ammo Bunker 319
61 Nigeria Ammo Truck 320
61 Nigeria M3 Ammo Carrier 321
61 Nigeria Stalwart 322
61 Nigeria Ammo Dump 323
61 Nigeria Ammo Container 558
62 Chad Ammo Container 587
62 Chad Ammo Bunker 480
62 Chad Ammo Truck 481
62 Chad M3 Ammo Carrier 482
62 Chad Ammo Dump 483
62 Chad Ammo Wagon 586
63 Ethiopia Ammo Container 563
63 Ethiopia Ammo Bunker 319
63 Ethiopia Ammo Dump 320
63 Ethiopia Ammo Truck 321
63 Ethiopia M3 Ammo Carrier 328
63 Ethiopia Ammo Wagon 562
64 Saudi Arabia Ammo Wagon 569
64 Saudi Arabia Ammo Bunker 229
64 Saudi Arabia Ammo Truck 230
64 Saudi Arabia M548 Ammo Carr 231
64 Saudi Arabia Ammo Dump 232
64 Saudi Arabia Ammo Container 568
65 Finland Ammo Container 236
65 Finland Ammo Truck 233
65 Finland Ammo Bunker 234
65 Finland Ammo Dump 235
66 Sweden Supply Boat 600 592
66 Sweden Ammo Bunker 227
66 Sweden Ammo Dump 228
66 Sweden Ammo Wagon 229
66 Sweden Munitions Truck 230
66 Sweden Bv 202 Ammo 231
66 Sweden Bv 206 Ammo 232
66 Sweden Ammo Container 233
67 Sudan Ammo Wagon 539
67 Sudan Ammo Bunker 229
67 Sudan Ammo Truck 230
67 Sudan Ammo Dump 232
67 Sudan Ammo Container 233
68 Lebanon Ammo Container 608
68 Lebanon M548 Ammo Carr 234
68 Lebanon Ammo Ship 235
68 Lebanon M3 Ammo Carrier 236
68 Lebanon Ammo Carrier 237
68 Lebanon Ammo Carrier 238
68 Lebanon Ammo Dump 239
68 Lebanon Ammo Truck 240
68 Lebanon Ammo Wagon 607
69 Kenya Ammo Container 563
69 Kenya Ammo Bunker 319
69 Kenya Ammo Truck 320
69 Kenya M3 Ammo Carrier 321
69 Kenya M548 Munitions 322
69 Kenya Ammo Dump 323
69 Kenya Ammo Wagon 562
70 Chechnya Ammo Dump 231
70 Chechnya Ammo Container 228
70 Chechnya Ammo Bunker 229
70 Chechnya Ammo Truck 230
71 Indonesia Ammo Cart 304
71 Indonesia M3 Ammo Carrier 228
71 Indonesia Ammo Bunker 229
71 Indonesia Ammo Truck 230
71 Indonesia Ammo Carrier 231
71 Indonesia Ammo Dump 232
71 Indonesia Munitions ATV 233
71 Indonesia Ammo Container 234
72 Viet Cong Ammo Container 235
72 Viet Cong Ammo Cart 218
72 Viet Cong Supply Animals 229
72 Viet Cong Ammo Truck 230
72 Viet Cong Ammo Depot 231
72 Viet Cong Ammo Dump 232
72 Viet Cong Ammo Truck 233
72 Viet Cong Ammo Bunker 234
73 Portugal Ammo Container 473
73 Portugal M548 Munitions 225
73 Portugal Ammo Bunker 229
73 Portugal Ammo Truck 230
73 Portugal Ammo Dump 231
73 Portugal Ammo Wagon 471
74 Malaysia Ammo Container 513
74 Malaysia Ammo Bunker 390
74 Malaysia Ammo Carrier 391
74 Malaysia Munitions ATV 392
74 Malaysia Ammo Dump 393
74 Malaysia Supply Ship 394
74 Malaysia M548 Munitions 395
74 Malaysia Ammo Cart 512
75 Zimbabwe Ammo Wagon 589
75 Zimbabwe Ammo Bunker 234
75 Zimbabwe Ammo Truck 235
75 Zimbabwe Ammo Dump 236
75 Zimbabwe Ammo Container 588
76 South Yemen Ammo Wagon 519
76 South Yemen Ammo Bunker 229
76 South Yemen Ammo Truck 230
76 South Yemen Ammo Dump 232
76 South Yemen Ammo Ship 233
76 South Yemen Ammo Container 518
77 North Yemen Ammo Wagon 539
77 North Yemen Ammo Bunker 229
77 North Yemen Ammo Truck 230
77 North Yemen Ammo Dump 232
77 North Yemen Ammo Ship 233
77 North Yemen Ammo Container 538
78 Eritrea Ammo Wagon 559
78 Eritrea Ammo Bunker 319
78 Eritrea Ammo Truck 320
78 Eritrea M3 Ammo Carrier 321
78 Eritrea Ammo Dump 323
78 Eritrea Ammo Container 324
79 Ukraine Ammo Container 232
79 Ukraine Ammo Bunker 228
79 Ukraine Ammo Dump 229
79 Ukraine Ammo Truck 230
79 Ukraine Ammo Carrier 231
80 UN Ammo Container 232
80 UN Ammo Bunker 229
80 UN Ammo Dump 230
80 UN M548 Munitions 231
81 Mozambique Ammo Wagon 589
81 Mozambique Ammo Bunker 110
81 Mozambique Ammo Dump 111
81 Mozambique Ammo Truck 112
81 Mozambique Ammo Container 113
82 Ecuador Ammo Wagon 419
82 Ecuador Ammo Bunker 229
82 Ecuador Ammo Truck 230
82 Ecuador Ammo Carrier 231
82 Ecuador Ammo Dump 232
82 Ecuador M3 Ammo Carrier 233
82 Ecuador Ammo Container 234
83 El Salvador Ammo Wagon 418
83 El Salvador Ammo Bunker 229
83 El Salvador Ammo Truck 230
83 El Salvador Ammo Carrier 231
83 El Salvador Ammo Dump 232
83 El Salvador M3 Ammo Carrier 233
83 El Salvador M548 Munitions 234
83 El Salvador Ammo Container 417
84 Nicaragua Ammo Wagon 418
84 Nicaragua Ammo Bunker 229
84 Nicaragua Ammo Truck 230
84 Nicaragua MT Ammo Carrier 231
84 Nicaragua Ammo Dump 232
84 Nicaragua M3 Ammo Carrier 233
84 Nicaragua M548 Munitions 234
84 Nicaragua Ammo Container 417
85 Peru Ammo Wagon 508
85 Peru Ammo Bunker 229
85 Peru Ammo Truck 230
85 Peru MT Ammo Carrier 231
85 Peru Ammo Dump 232
85 Peru Ammo Container 233
86 Rhodesia Ammo Wagon 589
86 Rhodesia Ammo Bunker 229
86 Rhodesia Ammo Dump 230
86 Rhodesia Supply Mules 231
86 Rhodesia Ammo Truck 232
86 Rhodesia Ammo Container 233
87 Bulgaria Ammo Wagon 589
87 Bulgaria Ammo Bunker 229
87 Bulgaria Ammo Truck 230
87 Bulgaria Ammo Carrier 231
87 Bulgaria Ammo Dump 232
87 Bulgaria K61 Munitions 233
87 Bulgaria Ammo Container 234
88 Somalia Ammo Wagon 554
88 Somalia Ammo Bunker 319
88 Somalia Ammo Truck 320
88 Somalia M3 Ammo Carrier 321
88 Somalia Stalwart 322
88 Somalia Ammo Dump 323
88 Somalia Ammo Container 324
89 Tanzania Ammo Wagon 559
89 Tanzania Ammo Bunker 319
89 Tanzania Ammo Truck 320
89 Tanzania M3 Ammo Carrier321
89 Tanzania Ammo Container 322
89 Tanzania Ammo Dump 323
90 Uganda Ammo Wagon 559
90 Uganda Ammo Bunker 319
90 Uganda Ammo Truck 320
90 Uganda M3 Ammo Carrier 321
90 Uganda Ammo Container 322
90 Uganda Ammo Dump 323
91 Uruguay M3 Ammo Carrier 586
91 Uruguay Ammo Wagon 576
91 Uruguay Ammo Container 577
91 Uruguay Ammo Bunker 582
91 Uruguay Ammo Dump 583
91 Uruguay Ammo Carrier 584
91 Uruguay Ammo Truck 585
92 Paraguay Ammo Wagon 508
92 Paraguay Ammo Bunker 500
92 Paraguay Ammo Dump 501
92 Paraguay Ammo Carrier 502
92 Paraguay Ammo Truck 503
92 Paraguay Ammo Container 504

[Imp]

Considering its use would be a small fudge to use an allied vehicle in the mean time as I assume you dont fight with them even if armed.

[Jack_Dionne]

The point I was trying to make is that all Nationalities should have some type of armoured ammo carrier.
That's all.

[Marcello]

Just wanted to point out that commanders at all levels including Platoon or Troop level depending on the military unit employs armoured vehicles to carry ammunition.

That is a pretty sweeping statement for a game which covers 92 nations and organizations during a timespan of over 70 years.
And actually in real life usually they don't. Ammunition is typically handled by trucks most of the time. There have been a few dedicated armored ammunition carriers, typically for artillery, but they have not been available to everyone all the time. If you really have to deliver some rifle/mortar/etc. ammo to an hotspot you can always shove some of it on an APC in a pinch of course, but that can be done in the same way in the game by loading an ammo container on an APC, which brings us to...

The point I was trying to make is that all Nationalities should have some type of armoured ammo carrier.
That's all.

Several nationalities simply would not have armored vehicles at all for part or most of the game lifespan. Not a whole lot of armored vehicles in real life in Gaza or current Somalia for example.

[DRG]

..... or the VC or the Chechnians, a bit iffy on Zimbabwe, Mozambique and both Yemens.

Belgium, Denmark, Finland and Sweden....probably have something but then again, maybe not. Perhaps someone has info on any armoured Ammo carriers in those armies and if anyone thinks the VC had armoured ammo carriers I'd be interested in the source of that info.

Don

[hoplitis]

The point I was trying to make is that all Nationalities should have some type of armoured ammo carrier.
That's all.

Key word is "should".
Key question "Do they actually have?"

[Jack_Dionne]

The point I was trying to make is that all Nationalities should have some type of armoured ammo carrier.
That's all.

Key word is "should".
Key question "Do they actually have?"
Your opinions are very much appreciated. To further my cause let me say that remember the actual game length of a game is usually less then one hour if we are going to use the reality argument. If a local commander feels the need to use one of his APC to haul ammo around for an hour or so what’s the big deal.

It’s not that big a deal to change the ammo containers to armoured ammo vehicles. I like using some ammo vehicles in my campaign games but when I play India or China I have to buy an APC to haul the ammo container around using up another core unit spot.

That’s all I am trying to impress upon, just because it’s there you don’t have to buy it.

[Marcello]

It’s not that big a deal to change the ammo containers to armoured ammo vehicles.


Actually it's not that trivial for a couple of reasons. From the game guide:

AMMO CANISTER, crew is 1 and speed must be 0, usually transportable, supplies small ammo only (to WH size 3), low supply points per move (20 ammo points) (Originally the ammo box icon for this was done only for a particular WinSPWW2 scenario using German paras (who only dropped armed with pistols), but left in for specialised scenario usage). Range 1 hex.

[...]

Anything else is a normal ammo truck (even if armoured), 40 ammo supply points per move. Range 1 hex

1) A dedicated ammo carrier is much more effective in the game than loading an ammo cannister in an APC; it can resupply artillery for example. This again has some parallel in reality.
2) Ammo cannisters or truck are generic and thus easier to handle. It would take quite a bit of work to find out if country X or Y has actually some armored ammo carrier variant (believe me, this sort of info is not easy to come by) and if not which APCs should be selected for such job. It might be worthwhile for China or India. Tanzania or Paraguay, not so much (and good luck finding info on them)
3) I will repeat again, not every country has armored vehicles in service that could, even in a pinch, used for such purpose.

[Jack_Dionne]

Any APC can act as an ammo carrier in game terms. Have you ever been in any type of APC?

[Marcello]

Any APC can act as an ammo carrier in game terms. Have you ever been in any type of APC?

I doubt that trying to use, say, a BTR-60PB to resupply heavy arty ammo would be all that practical for example. But let's assume it isn't an issue. What I was underscoring previously is that several nations/organizations still simply don't have APCs in first place, period. What sort of armored resupply vehicle do you suggest for them?

[Jack_Dionne]

I have been in a modified BTR (the Polish contingent uses them) in the Middle East as part of UNDOF and I can tell you they are large and lots of room.

As far as some nationalities not having any APC that’s not the issue I am bringing to light. Please understand I am not trying to get into a pissing contest on this issue just hoping for a bit of change that’s all.

[Marcello]

I have been in a modified BTR (the Polish contingent uses them) in the Middle East as part of UNDOF and I can tell you they are large and lots of room.


Room would not be an issue in fact.What I was thinking about was the hatches arrangement on the original models.Same for the BTR-50, no easy way to get heavy or bulky items in and out even if space inside is abundant. I am not saying that's physically impossible but I doubt the practicality.

As far as some nationalities not having any APC that’s not the issue I am bringing to light

You were saying previously that all nationalities should have armored ammo carriers. That could be accomplished by making ammo carrier variant of APCs available. But if there are no APCs then what should be used?

[Mobhack]

I have been in a modified BTR (the Polish contingent uses them) in the Middle East as part of UNDOF and I can tell you they are large and lots of room.


Room would not be an issue in fact.What I was thinking about was the hatches arrangement on the original models.Same for the BTR-50, no easy way to get heavy or bulky items in and out even if space inside is abundant. I am not saying that's physically impossible but I doubt the practicality.

As far as some nationalities not having any APC that’s not the issue I am bringing to light

You were saying previously that all nationalities should have armored ammo carriers. That could be accomplished by making ammo carrier variant of APCs available. But if there are no APCs then what should be used?

The issue with ammo is the bulk and weight of the packages. When simply dumped in a crew compartment with no proper preparation, these large heavy lumps will fly about like loose rocks and pulverise any crew.

Dedicated ammo carriers have proper stowage arrangements for the ammo built in, unlike the normal APC. They also do not carry crew inside.

When in the mortar platoon in my bn, ammo went in the 1/4(?) ton trailers the land rovers pulled, tied down and with a tarp on top. Crew and bits went in the rover.

When doing some arty wotk at OTC, some 4-tonners were proper arty tows, and had ammo bays in the sides of the truck. Crew went in the flatbed, gun hitched on the back. When using a regular 4-tonner to shift ammo, it was either ammo alone on the flatbed (tied down) with no personnel mixed in it, or we made a "well" at the front of the flatbed for a few boxes of shells and charges, and tied a barrier of ropes across the seats to stop the boxes breaking loose and squishing the detachment. But that was only approved for use on the metalled road to the firing position, and very limited (flat) off-road from the road to the firing position, not for any really hairy (bouncy) cross-country work.

Nations that don't have any sort of dedicated armoured vehicle for resupply, simply will not have them. End of.

Andy

[Jack_Dionne]

It’s not that big a deal to change the ammo containers to armoured ammo vehicles.


Actually it's not that trivial for a couple of reasons. From the game guide:

AMMO CANISTER, crew is 1 and speed must be 0, usually transportable, supplies small ammo only (to WH size 3), low supply points per move (20 ammo points) (Originally the ammo box icon for this was done only for a particular WinSPWW2 scenario using German paras (who only dropped armed with pistols), but left in for specialised scenario usage). Range 1 hex.

[...]

Anything else is a normal ammo truck (even if armoured), 40 ammo supply points per move. Range 1 hex

1) A dedicated ammo carrier is much more effective in the game than loading an ammo cannister in an APC; it can resupply artillery for example. This again has some parallel in reality.
2) Ammo cannisters or truck are generic and thus easier to handle. It would take quite a bit of work to find out if country X or Y has actually some armored ammo carrier variant (believe me, this sort of info is not easy to come by) and if not which APCs should be selected for such job. It might be worthwhile for China or India. Tanzania or Paraguay, not so much (and good luck finding info on them)
3) I will repeat again, not every country has armored vehicles in service that could, even in a pinch, used for such purpose.

Seems odd though, how an M113 can be used as an ammo carrier when you compare its size to other APC of similar size from different countries.
How about levelling the playing field.

How many people can say they have even been in an APC let alone compare something they have never actually been in.

My only goal is the same as everyone else, to contribute in a way to make this game as good as it can be, given it's limitations.

[Imp]

Seems odd though, how an M113 can be used as an ammo carrier when you compare its size to other APC of similar size from different countries.

The M113 ammo is a dedicated conversion try googing & probably relativly straight forward as its a tin box on tracks but as mentioned before size is not the issue they could all carry some its access as in ease of un/loading & securing it. Nice hatch arrangement not a problem but look at some APCs the means of egress is not great. If you wanted to push it could have that tops up at 25% of the rate of a dedicated vehicle & always goes bang if its hit but then you would not buy it. Strangely using the APC to carry an ammo cannister sort of simulates this. The truth is in game terms cant see the point they are a very rare casualty you dont try & reload when under fire its a job done out of harms way.

[Jack_Dionne]

Seems odd though, how an M113 can be used as an ammo carrier when you compare its size to other APC of similar size from different countries.

The M113 ammo is a dedicated conversion try googing & probably relativly straight forward as its a tin box on tracks but as mentioned before size is not the issue they could all carry some its access as in ease of un/loading & securing it. Nice hatch arrangement not a problem but look at some APCs the means of egress is not great. If you wanted to push it could have that tops up at 25% of the rate of a dedicated vehicle & always goes bang if its hit but then you would not buy it. Strangely using the APC to carry an ammo cannister sort of simulates this. The truth is in game terms cant see the point they are a very rare casualty you dont try & reload when under fire its a job done out of harms way.

I guess we will have to agree on disagreeing. I am still standing by my argument that in game terms it’s totally doable.

[Imp]

I guess we will have to agree on disagreeing. I am still standing by my argument that in game terms it’s totally doable


Strange statement or I am misreading, yes its doable so is an armored penguin for that matter just not realistic according to people I trust to know. Your initial comment was something like for play balance all nations should have one. By that rational they should all have APCs attack helos CM arty etc. Sorry not trying to be antogonistic & yes it is a game but the sides have the equipment they field & balance is achieved by points allocation as a huge nod to that fact.

[Marcello]

Seems odd though, how an M113 can be used as an ammo carrier when you compare its size to other APC of similar size from different countries.
How about levelling the playing field.

There is just only one M113 ammo carrier in the game, in the iranian OOB. It may well be a mistake or perhaps the iranians did actually convert some of them with proper stowage (and as noted the type is inherently more suitable than others for this purpose).I know from experience this sort of info isn't easy to come by...
Otherwise in the game as in real life the standard ammo carrier variant of the M113 is the M548, which is basically an unarmored truck on tracks. There are a few MT-LBs, whose prime mover variant has some racks for artillery ammunition if I rememeber correctly, so it could indeed be used for ammo resupply in a pinch.And so on.


How many people can say they have even been in an APC let alone compare something they have never actually been in.


So you have been in APC and you tell us it's roomy. Well, actually nobody here has disputed that. A guy who has actually dealt with the issue at hand, ammo stowage, tells us:

The issue with ammo is the bulk and weight of the packages. When simply dumped in a crew compartment with no proper preparation, these large heavy lumps will fly about like loose rocks and pulverise any crew.

Which, if you think about it, makes perfect sense. A single 152/155mm shell weighs more than 40kg for example, you definitively are not going to just stack a bunch of them in the troops compartment and then merrily drive around...

[Marek_Tucan]

I have been in a modified BTR (the Polish contingent uses them) in the Middle East as part of UNDOF and I can tell you they are large and lots of room.

I do not believe Poland used ANY wheeled BTR except command variant of 60. You most likely were in a modernised OT-64 SKOT, which is a totally different best with larger internal volume (originally, it was to carry 15 dismounts).

Edit: From the UNDOF official site it seems though that UNDOF uses only M113s and Finnish SISU PASI APCs, which are gradually replaced by RG32M.

[Jack_Dionne]

I have been in a modified BTR (the Polish contingent uses them) in the Middle East as part of UNDOF and I can tell you they are large and lots of room.

I do not believe Poland used ANY wheeled BTR except command variant of 60. You most likely were in a modernised OT-64 SKOT, which is a totally different best with larger internal volume (originally, it was to carry 15 dismounts).

Edit: From the UNDOF official site it seems though that UNDOF uses only M113s and Finnish SISU PASI APCs, which are gradually replaced by RG32M.
You are correct they are the SISU, the Poles took over from the Finn's.