Casual EA for busy schedules (now underway)

[Immaculate]

CasualEA


In my first ever MP game I am about to die and I decided I wanted to play another MP game and since it seems fairly easy to organize a PBEM game on Llamaserver.net, I thought I would give it a try.

Because people are busy this time of year (including me), we’ll start with a 48h/turn schedule but as the game progresses, we’ll make the turns longer. Please note that I want to make this game available to casual players who cannot commit to playing every day or even every second day, so if someone wants to put off the turn length further, they can ask for it on a case by case basis and expect to be accommodated (if you want a faster paced game please join a different game).

This game is also for newer players (I have only personally played four games and never won a single one so that would include me) but if you have played many games, you are welcome to join also. If you are vet with a near flawless win record, please go play somewhere else.

Onto the game itself:

We’ll be playing Early Age (since except for my mutliplayer game that’s all I’ve played).
We’ll play cradle of dominions (since it’s a pre-packaged map casual players should be familiar with).
We’ll play without any mods (again to help accommodate casual players who have yet to explore the mods available).
We’ll play with between 8 and 10 players (because that’s what the map suggests).
We’ll play with standard settings with the following exceptions. The hall of fame will include up to 15 entries- this is because it’s fun to get heroic abilities. Also, we’ll set the special sites to 55 instead of 45 because its fun to discover cool sites and I enjoy this part of the game (and I hope you do too).
So, there are three other decisions to make according to the Llamaserver.net walkthrough.
Victory conditions: I guess whenever there’s only one person left they are the ‘true god’.
Diplomacy policy: Your word is your honor (ie- Feel free to break your word but then also expect no one else to trust you. You are free to break your treaties.)
Which race do I want to play? I’ll take the amazon one with the poison archers- forget the name but you probably know who I mean. EDIT: SAUROMATIA- thank you grudge

The Game is called: CasualEA.
The link is here:
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=CasualEA


SIGN UP:



Immaculate: Sauromatia
GrudgeBringer: Acro
Louppatient: TirNaNog
Slobby: Ryleh
Ossa: Ermor
LDiCesare: T'ien Ch'i
Hoplosternum: Helheim
Mardagg: Agartha
Mojo the Avenger: Abyssia
...

Game stasis:
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=CasualEA

[GrudgeBringer]

You mean Sauromatia

[GrudgeBringer]

:up:I have never won anything but I DO ask a lot of questions on the Forums (hence the Captain title).

You are NOT going to use the CBM MOD? I think you might want to think about that.

If you want another player I will take a weak nation and play ARCO, If you think I a vet then I will back out with no problems.

[Immaculate]

You are welcome to play.

I want to avoid Mods (or other changes) that would scare away new players.

If EVERYONE who wants to join wants to play CBM, then we will do that... otherwise we will try to keep things simple.

[Louppatient]

I'd like to play Tir na n'Og.

I'm more used to CBM than vanilla, but I can play without it.

[Slobby]

Sign me up, I'll take ryleh, and no cbm is fine by me.

[Ossa]

I'd like to join as Ermor. Last time I tried them I got stomped:/

[Immaculate]

I like your name LoupPatient. It was my codename in paintball in my early university years.

[LDiCesare]

I'm in too. I'll pick T'ien Ch'i.

[Hoplosternum]

I would like to play if you will have me. Helheim please, I have never played them in mp.

[Immaculate]

One more player... then we can start uploading pretenders.

[Immaculate]

If we don't pick up another player soon i'll just add a few AI players and we can start. For me an AI is still pretty challenging and i guess the same is true for some of the other players so i don't think that will change things too much. if you disagree, speak up (or go snare some other player you think would be into this and trick them into joining).

immac.

[Mardagg]

I would like to play Agartha.
No cbm is fine for me.
No Ais pls.
Those starting near AI are forced to wage early war,since no diplomacy is possible.So,unless playing with lots of AI`s,for which Cradle is too small,this may put only some players at big disadvantage.Not to mention the advantage Ryleh already has being the only Water Nation would be like tripled since the comp cant take care of water nations.

This would be my second Dom3 MP game.Ive won some Dom2 games long time ago,though.

[Immaculate]

Okay, i guess i feel we are ready to start now that we have enough players. We will do so without any AI nations.

I'll give about half a day for others to join if they want to before i set the game up. We'll accept up to two or three more players.

[LDiCesare]

No AI definitely.
My main issue is the victory condition. I'd rather have victory points so the game doesn't drag forever though (1 vp per capital, controlling more than half the vp's).

[Immaculate]

Thats fine with me and if anyone has any objections, lets hear them, otherwise we'll do as LDi suggests.

[Mardagg]

Problem with vp per capital is,that one can see all starting provinces on the map.This takes away some of the exploration part of the game and also favors all nations with early access to spells that attack provinces.
Personally, i am ok with it...but e.g. I can make good use of this very early because i got a scrying site at my capital :D

[Calahan]

Problem with vp per capital is,that one can see all starting provinces on the map.This takes away some of the exploration part of the game and also favours all nations with early access to spells that attack provinces.

Just an outsiders opinion, but VP marked capitals also favours rush / strong nations, since they know automatically where their closet neighbours capital is from turn one. So can send the necessary guys in that direction straight away.

I personally don't believe the stronger nations, or indeed the stronger players, should be given any extra help in crushing their closet neighbour. Since in these cases the VP's just turn into a bulls-eye or X, that marks exactly where the juicy treasure is buried.

And while everyone in the game will get the exact same info with regards where the capitals are, some will benefit greatly from it, while others will be severly disadvantaged by it, depending mainly on which nation they are. So it won't be fair info to all. I also think that capital locations is too valuable a piece of info to be given away freely from the start of the game.


Just my thoughts on the subject, but I'm not in the game, so feel free to ignore them :) and of course, best of luck to everyone with the game.

[GrudgeBringer]

I thinks a consensus will work just fine.

It usually becomes obvious who the top 3 players are soon enough, and eventually it is a pretty sure thing who is going to hammer down the rest.:up:

[LDiCesare]

If no vp, then I'd suggest a province number of half the provinces +1 or 60% of the provinces.

[Immaculate]

Either consensus or 60% provinces does not require changes to the game setup so i have gone ahead and made a game for 8 players according to the outline listed on the first page.
Please upload pretenders as you see fit.

[LDiCesare]

Is there a deadline for submitting pretenders?

[Immaculate]

not an official one (i didn't see where you could even put one when i put up the game) but lets try to get them in over the next few days. this is supposed to be a game specifically for busy schedules so i am going to try and be patient....

having said that, lets aim for tomorrow or wednesday though; that should be enough time to design a pretender right?

[Mojo the Avenger]

Any chance I can sign up? If so I'd like to play Abysia

[Immaculate]

No problem- i have set the max # of players to 9 instead of 8. Welcome aboard.

[Mojo the Avenger]

Cool. I'll make a pretender just in case.

Edit: I'll get it uploaded tonight.

[Louppatient]

Pretender sent, I'll resend it tomorrow if not taken in account with Llamaserver downtime ...

[GrudgeBringer]

Will get in Pretender this evening sometime (Tuesday)

[GrudgeBringer]

is the name of the game busy_schedules


OR Casual_EA_for_busy_schedules

I need to know to send in my pretender as I don't see either game listed.

[GrudgeBringer]

Never mind

[GrudgeBringer]

I have sent my Pretender in 3 times with no response....maybe llamaserver is having problems.

Will try agian tomorrow

[GrudgeBringer]

Agian I sent in my pretender to pretenders@llamaserverCasual_EA__for_busy_schedule s and got NO response at all.

No error...game not listed stc.

I sent it in agian this morning but unless llamaserver is having problems, I have no idea what is wrong.

This IS the name for the subject line...correct?:confused:

[GrudgeBringer]

That should read....

pretenders@llamaserver.net

Thr rest on the subject line.

Sorry 5 AM here on my way out the door to the gym.

[Louppatient]

Read this thread :
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=44190

-> The server has been turned off again. If you check the server web page for the game, I think that the last update is before you sent your pretender, so that's perfectly normal that it doesn't appears yet.

We just have to wait ...

[Immaculate]

That should read....

pretenders@llamaserver.net

The rest on the subject line.

Sorry 5 AM here on my way out the door to the gym.

Yeah, thats true. All you have to do is e-mail an attached file with your pretender to that e-mail address. The subject line you can copy and paste from this:

Casual_EA_for_busy_schedules


I learned to do all this from this website:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160


EDIT: I realize you know what you are doing and its a server thing but i am going to leave those instructions here in case someone else needs them

5am and going to the gym- good for you... i hate people like you... but good for you anyway.

[GrudgeBringer]

pretenders@llamaserver.net
This message has been rejected because it has
a potentially executable attachment "Casual_EA_for_busy_schedules.lnk"
This form of attachment has been used by
recent viruses or other malware.
If you meant to send this file then please
package it up as a zip file and resend it.

This is what I got from the last time I tried to maul my pretender in.

I have no idea where or WHAT the .lnk in it is or where it cane from cause I sure as H^ll didn't type it.

I went ahead and copied and pasted this time....if it doesn't work then perhaps there is something wrong with my Comp and you can go on without me if you need to.

[Immaculate]

I have no idea whats happening Grudge...
Maybe you could post in the general forums and see what others think of this occurrence.

Its not like we are in a horrible rush, we still need:
Slobby: Ryleh
Ossa: Ermor

[Louppatient]

.lnk are shortcut files, maybe you made a mistake during file attachment ?

Btw, my pretender submission was processed during the short time the server was on, and I did receive some strange error email (listing an error related to another game), so I would not blindly trust the error message you received.

Best thing is probably to wait for Llamabeast to tell us the server is up and OK again :)

[Immaculate]

The game says it has all of us joined in the general screen. When i open admin options (to start the game) it says only 8 of the pretenders have joined so far. I'm going to give it a bit of time to get over this hiccup and if it doesn't fix itself i will have a very mild panic (very mild mind you)... till then... patience.

[Immaculate]

as per llamabeast's suggestion, i'm just going to force a start. Hope this works...

[Mojo the Avenger]

anyone else get emails yet?

[Immaculate]

nope.

I think we're better off just deleting this game (which seems to have been adversely affected by the server going down) and starting a new, identical one and uploading our pretenders again.
If i don't hear a nay to this idea within a few hours, this is exactly what i will do (so you'll need to e-mail your pretenders in again)

[GrudgeBringer]

I have a POTENTIAL small problem when/if the game starts soon.

I am leaving for Phoenix AR today to play in my last tournament of the year (Thank God, its been a loooong season) and will be back Sunday night LATE.

I do have GotomyPC and should be fine to make my turns.

However, with all this spamming and problems with llamaserver I have had my computer lock up before when this has hap pend and I tried to access my Computer.

Problem is No One is here to reboot it and reset it.

Soooooooo, IF you see I am about to stale please grant me an extension until Monday Morning sometime (I am CST) and I will get it in ASAP.

If you feel its too long a wait I will understand and just go ahead and I will set it to AI when I get back.

There is little chance I will get a turn in before I leave as that is in 2 hours.

Thanks!!:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHHHH, I just saw the post about resending pretenders.

This won't have any issue with pretenders sent in,

In fact if the game was set to go it will just send out the first turn.

As I am leaving town and you decide to do that, I will TRY and get it sent in. But agian if the wait is too long, just go ahead without me.

And iF you do set up a new game...just make it "Casualgame 2" or something simple..please.:up:

[Immaculate]

I DID set the game to go.... nothing happened. Thats the problem.

Game started! Players should receive their first turns in the next few minutes.

Note that the game will remain in the "Waiting for pretenders" list for a few minutes until the game start is processed.

[Immaculate]

OKAY- please note- i am deleting the game and starting a new one, same exact settings called:

'CasualEA' (all one word)

Please resend your pretenders. I know this is a hassle (it is for me too) and i thank you all for your patience.


Here's the game link:

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=CasualEA


Immac.

[GrudgeBringer]

You caught me on the way out the door...resent pretender...if it doesn't get there just withdraw me...Thanks for doing all you could, the first game to Admin is the toughest!!!:up:

[Immaculate]

It doesn't seem to 'see' your pretender.
Could others try too and we can see how the server responds...?

[Louppatient]

Just resent my pretender, I'll keep you updated.

BTW, no problem for me to wait until monday that GrudgeBringer comes backs ...

[Mojo the Avenger]

Ok. Sent my pretender in twice, no response no update.

I don't think it's any problem waiting for grudge either. It looks like we're stuck until llama gets everything ironed out anyway.

[Immaculate]

This is weird:


Game: CasualEA
Early Age, max 9 players
Please resubmit your pretenders for this game.

Map: Cradle of Dominion
Mods: None

Nations joined so far:
None

Last updated at 19:45 GMT on Thursday October 22nd
Current time: 22:20 GMT


especially when you recall that at least two pretenders have been submitted. Maybe when it catches up (updates) it will realize that the pretenders are submitted already?

[GrudgeBringer]

Thanks guys, this has honestly beeb a strange deal, but llama is a brilliant computer fixen guru.

I will try and check in everyday but hopefully it will be fixed by Monday...agian thanks for the support!!!!:up:

[Immaculate]

Seems to be working:


Nations joined so far:
Abysia
Tir na n'Og
Helheim


Well, get those pretenders in.

Grudge, we will wait for you if you are unable to play from the road... this is supposed to be a casual game anyway...

[Immaculate]

update as of now

Nations joined so far:
Abysia
Tir na n'Og
Helheim
Sauromatia
T'ien Ch'i
Agartha

[Immaculate]

Just Grudge and Ossa left now...

(hope your tournament went well Grudge- what do you play anyway?)

[GrudgeBringer]

Rugby and Major division softball.

I travel a lot in the spring and fall....

This is the last Tourney of the year.

So far undefeated.......


I am going to try and send my pretender in agian...I assume we are using CasualEAgame in the subject line.

If this doesn't work will get it Monday Morning Early.

[GrudgeBringer]

Sent in pretender (I hope) but may not be able to do turn till monday.

If you want to start the game put a 48 hour extension on the game.

If I get the turn in it will host AUTO. If not it will host as soon as I get it in Monday (providing everyone has thier turn in.:up:

[Immaculate]

here's what i got so far:


Nations joined so far:
Abysia
Tir na n'Og
Helheim
Sauromatia
T'ien Ch'i
Agartha
R'lyeh



We won't start until we have everyone's pretenders in. I PMed Ossa, so i hope he gets his in- if i don't hear from him and he doesn't get his pretender in, we'll have to start without him but i want to give him (and you) a chance.

[Immaculate]

Thanks Ossa,


Game: CasualEA
Early Age, max 9 players
Players so far: 8
Please resubmit your pretenders for this game.

Map: Cradle of Dominion
Mods: None

Nations joined so far:
Abysia
Tir na n'Og
Helheim
Sauromatia
T'ien Ch'i
Agartha
R'lyeh
Ermor

For some reason it did't get Grudge's pretender (maybe wrong subject- copy and paste from: "CasualEA" -without the quotation marks) but once he gets it in we'll hopefully not have any more problems.

Big thank-yous to everyone for their patience.

[GrudgeBringer]

I will be home tonight late but will get it in by tomorrow noon.

i sent it in 4 times while I was gone borrowing the hotels comp.

I used Subject line CausualEA

it kept kicking it out.

IS that thr rIGHT game name?

I will check messages in approx 5 hours when I arrive home.

Someone please let me know if this is correct game name for the subject line.

Thankes Grudge

[Immaculate]

You spelled casual wrong.
It should be:

CasualEA

[GrudgeBringer]

I sent it in agian...I only spelled it wrong on that post as I went back and checked.

I also checked to make sure I had no mods on so that wouldn't interfere.

Now if this one doesn't take, I don't know. its not like I haven't done this before.

BTW, thanks to all for the patience you guys have shown and I am home now.

[Immaculate]

congrats on your national-level achievements.

and it looks like the game is going so you obviously got it right this time.

:)

[Louppatient]

Victory conditions are VP ?
It seems that there are 5 VP on the map ...

[Immaculate]

I didn't set victory conditions; i was sort of wondering about that myself. is that what the crowns are?
I.

[Louppatient]

I think so, that's the icons I have when I create a new game with VP as victory conditions, but I admit I am not really familiar with this.

Btw, default win conditions are 4 out of 5 VP.

(It's not really a problem for me, but it could be interesting to know how to win :D )

[Mardagg]

hm,well that is stange.
We dont have any victory points score graphs.
That means,we are playing with normal victory conditions(which i find much better anyways).
Now,we just need to find out,why we got victory points on the map?

Looks to me,we might be somehow using a slightly altered version of cradle.

[Mardagg]

U got me thinking.
Looks like Llamserver always adds 5 victory points on any map whatsoever,without any impact on the game.
My other game also has 5 vps randomly scattered around the map on normal victory condition.

[Mojo the Avenger]

Hey dudes

I might stale this turn. My university is migrating their e-mail service to gmail and it's dropping emails. I sent myself a test e-mail and it's just nowhere to be found.

We'll see if it clears up by tomorrow.

[GrudgeBringer]

Ask for an extension for 12 or 24 hours if you need it.

To stale at this stage is a killer.

[Immaculate]

The game turn is due thursday right now but if you need longer, just holler and we'll fix you up.

Generally the game turns will be hosted at 60h which is a LOT of time but obviously the game will host earlier if we all get our turns in earlier, so do what your schedule allows but if you have time, its best to try and get a turn in earlier rather then later so we can progress... that being said, this is supposed to be a casual game for busy schedules, so we'll accomodate.


I.

[Mojo the Avenger]

Got it taken care of, I'll get my turn in tonight

[Immaculate]

So, its okay to use this forum for diplomacy right? I mean, is that standard? or should we use PMs and in-game mail (so slow!)?

[GrudgeBringer]

Usually, if you post your Nap's (Example..Arco and Helheim enter a 3 turn Nap beginning on turn 22)on the forum then there isn't a lot of bickering about someone breaking the Nap etc.

The rest of us will see that the person isn't to be trusted and will act accordingly.

NOW...There are also private naps....

This is so no one knows how strong you are or where you are. At least SOME of the players will know exactly where you are if they border the other person in a public nap.

If war breaks out with your Nap mate they may come after you also, or they may ask you to break it.

Also, if they stab you in the back...NO CRYING on private naps.

That's the norm, and there are many variations.:eek:

[Immaculate]

what about trading gems and magic items?

[GrudgeBringer]

Shhhhhhhhhh, unless you are afraid someone will screw you, there is NOOOOO reason why you would want anyone knowing strength of gems, magic items ect. They would know how to counter your items if they wanted to go to war with you. :up:

[Immaculate]

I trust everything is going well for everyone. Its been a lot of fun watching the graphs and the hall of fame. For example, it was pretty obvious who had very high taxes in the first turn and who didn't.
Also, grudge, you seem to REALLY like your mercenaries. I wonder if you are the only one bidding or if you are just bidding really high.
I hope that soon we'll all be meeting some neighbors and some true diplomacy can start to develop.

[GrudgeBringer]

Mercenaries are for the first few turns...I got what I wanted from them. Most folks know they aren't worth the money, my position demanded them (heck I was surrounded by Elephants, Vampires, Heavy infantry...Geeeeez)lucky I have a couple of provinces.

Poor 'ol' Grudge, if everyone would send him just 5 measly gems of any kind and 100 gold....maybe, just maybe I will be around by turn 12.:eek:

[Louppatient]

Its been a lot of fun watching the graphs and the hall of fame. For example, it was pretty obvious who had very high taxes in the first turn and who didn't.

I really am impressed with the amount of data you can get from the numerical score tables available on the llamaserver from the first turns : some scales, pretenders which are awake (either those with high dominion, or researching), sometimes information on the bless level, sometimes the first turns mage recruitments ...

This is definitely something I will have to consider from now on ...

[Immaculate]

I never realized there were score graphs on the server page. i was just looking at the in-game ones.

[LDiCesare]

Those are the same data.
Note that you may get an idea of the dominion and path of pretenders by looking at their "titles" in-game (the more, the highest dominion, and each qualifier implies a magic path).

[Louppatient]

Those are the same data.
Note that you may get an idea of the dominion and path of pretenders by looking at their "titles" in-game (the more, the highest dominion, and each qualifier implies a magic path).

Yes, but it is easier to check the numerical values. I did not found a way to view the precise value in-game, but maybe I just don't know how ...

[Immaculate]

Could the player who is bordering sauromatia and who sent Sauromatia a in-game message last turn please check their PMs here on this forum?

[LDiCesare]

In fact, if players read their PMs here, it would be nice.

[GrudgeBringer]

No message, just keeping us on the front page.

[Immaculate]

So many of us must have bumped borders. I am not sure if there has been any skirmishing/diplomacy too much yet but i certainly hope so.

If anyone wants to talk about any of their skirmishes or diplomacy, they are welcome to do so, though of course, there is the philosophy that any information provided to other nations could conceivably weaken oneself.

[Immaculate]

Starting Thursday November 26th and extending to Sunday November 29th, turn lengths will consist of 100hours each. This means that if you can't get to this game during the thanksgiving break, thats fine, you will not stall.

IF however, you are able to play your turn in a small time-frame, that would of course be best and we will perhaps not have to make use of such a large turn length.

Because this game is advertised as a casual game for players with busy schedules, i feel its totally fair to take this action unilaterally but if you wish to express any concerns regarding this decision then feel free to do so.

After this time turn lengths will return to their regular schedule.

Immac.

[GrudgeBringer]

REMEMBER....once you do the turn it WILL return to 24 hours.

So if you had a chance say friday to do it and where out of town thinking you had 100 more hours,,you DO NOT and will stale.

I suggest that if you are going to be out of town till Sunday DO NOT send your turn in OR, you could send it in SAT depending on when you got back Sunday and still get both turns in.

[Slobby]

:angel

Word has reached the great capital of Ryleh that some of you land lubbers are in our national territory, ie. the water.

Let it be known that all sea lanes and lakes are considered the property of the oh so wise and squishy Bobo! And as such will be reclaimed by the Aboleth high council, regardless if there is a NAP in place.

That is all.

:angel

[Immaculate]

Ummmm....

i sort of forgot the password. and i can't change the turn time (for thanksgiving).

I wrote to Llamabeast about it but havn't heard anything.

I really don't know what the password could have been- i only have about 3 or 4 that i use and none of those (or combinations thereof) seem to be working... anyway... i'll keep trying but i'm not sure what will happen.

[Immaculate]

Ignore that- Damn Caps lock!

i'm ignorant.

[GrudgeBringer]

just getting us back on the first page

[LDiCesare]

Looks like someone's been fishing recently.
I suppose that's been an interesting battle to watch, considering the big drop in armies numbers on the score graph.
I wish I had underwater scouts to see that!

[Mardagg]

News report for all those landlubbers...
actually 2 battles:

first my pretender teleported on his main army,killing about one third of his army before autorouting on turn 50 due to turn limit(MR 27 wasnt enough to prevent paralyzing directly on turn 1(!!),but the squids eventually went out of ammo).
Second his remaining army moved on my army.
This wasnt that interesting anymore in the end mainly because his mages used up all gems vs my pretender already,as planned:D

[Immaculate]

I think i have a lot of learning left to do. i am not sure i am capable of thinking that like that.

[Slobby]

This wasnt that interesting anymore in the end mainly because his mages used up all gems vs my pretender already,as planned:D

Quite :D

[Immaculate]

Wow- and poop!

just from the graphs agartha, you are getting very powerful!

[Mardagg]

Well,you are at least on par in every graph,except Research where you are leading by a huge margin+ you are a blood nation+ you are at peace it seems= you are by far more powerful.;)

I can tell its never fun to wage an early war vs a water nation even with the top tier land nation for that matter: EA Agartha.
I wasnt the one that started the war anyway.

[Immaculate]

yeah, finally got my *** moving on the research thing.

Why does it matter if i am blood nation? If you don't mind teaching a bit...

[Mardagg]

Blood is a very strong path,especially in our game,since you are soon to be the only remaining "natural" blood nation as Abysia is struggling a lot it seems.Being the only blood nation is a big advantage in its own,since you dont got any contenders regarding unique items,unique summons,and so on.
In addition you got another big source of "gem income",so that the gem income graph doesnt show all your strength gemwise since how many blood slaves you get per turn is hidden.
I mean,e.g. getting 60 gems per turn is far inferior to a blood nation getting like 50 gems per turns+xxx blood slaves.

[LDiCesare]

Why does it matter if i am blood nation? If you don't mind teaching a bit...

Because blood magic allows for awesome summons, doesn't require luck in order to get sites providing gems but jsut a bunch of hunters with some rods leading to easily huge blood slave income.
Generally, end game requires strong magic in one of: blood (archdevils...), death (tartarians), astral (wish). Sauromatia is good at death and blood. And has nature to get along with death.

[Immaculate]

My choice to go blood or death late game should be influenced by what? luck with sites? gem income? pretender paths?

[Immaculate]

Also, how do you suggest that sauromatia get into blood heavily? Use witch kings or just keep trying to recruit sorceresses and pray that they are blood instead of nature/death/water?

[Mardagg]

Well,Sauromatia is considered to be one of the best EA Nations.
They are very versatile and ,like LDICesare said,are strong in Death and got easy access to Nature and Blood.
Sure,they are better Blood Nations around,but those lack Death and/or Nature and having easy access to Blood is good enough in itself.
I would think u cant do it wrong with Sauromatia.
Either going strong for Blood or only light or medium,its up to you.
You dont necessarily need Blood unlike most other Blood Nations.

I wouldnt use ur Witch kings for blood hunting btw,they are a bit too expensive and rare for that purpose.

[Immaculate]

When are people going away for christmas?

[LDiCesare]

I'm probably going to be internet-less on 24-25.

[Mardagg]

probably a good idea to switch to 72h hosting soon ,for the rest of the year.
I will be most likely without internet on 25th and 26th december.

[Mardagg]

@ Immaculate

I keep on getting corrupted turn files on my AOL adress.
Could you please change my(Agartha) Email adress to: Mardagg@web.de

According to Llamaserver FAQ this will fix the problem(and it did in my other game).

Thanks in advance.

Mardagg

[Immaculate]

PROBLEM:
i did that but i accidently changed ermor's e-mail address to the one you provided (ALSO).

Ermor- could you e-mail me your address and i will chane it back to what its supposed to be:
my e-mail is philgob (at) hotmail (dot) com

[Immaculate]

If anyone knows of another way to reach Osso or has his/her e-mail, please advise him/her that an error has occurred and i need to speak with him/her.

Thanks.

[GrudgeBringer]

I sent him a PM and made sure he knows how important it is to contact you (or me if your busy), other than that I think we need to extend the turn until he gets back to us.

[Mardagg]

PROBLEM:
i did that but i accidently changed ermor's e-mail address to the one you provided (ALSO).



Thx for changing my adress.
Confirmation: I have gotten notification emails that both Nations are now using my adress.

Maybe someone could send ermor an ingame message about this also?
I would do it,but i am not at home ,so no access to dominions for today.

I hope this is solved soon.

[Immaculate]

an in-game message would just be delivered to you mardagg... :)

[Immaculate]

hosting has been put off by 99 hours. hopefully ossa contacts us in the meantime. Once we've talked to ossa and got his e-mail straightened out, we'll get all turns in then force hosting. sound good?

[Mardagg]

an in-game message would just be delivered to you mardagg... :)

lol,right.:doh:
forget that idea.

Ermor obviously already played its turn before the email change and i suspect that "IF" he would want to change orders and his email wont be recognized by llamaserver he would look up this topic.
So its imo the best to host normally 1 time so that he realizes the turn isnt send to him anymore.
IIRC normally hosting schedule was hosting in about 8 hours from now.

In addition u could write a message of the day on llamaserver adressing Ermor.
The "w `re off" message is a bit outdated anyway;)
He might look up only there and by now he might be wondering why hosting has been delayed.

[Immaculate]

good idea- i'll force host tomorrow something (so get those turns in everyone) and i'll change the llamaserver message.

[LDiCesare]

Did you try to ask llamabeast if he can find the old mail address?
With a bit of luck he keeps sent/received mails somewhere.

[Ossa]

Just sent him my email;)

[Immaculate]

okay- fixed- we are still missing two turn files- abyssia and tirnanog. get those turns in.

[Ossa]

They already stalled the last 1 resp. 4 turns - I dont know whether it's sensible to wait for them any longer.

[Immaculate]

okay, forcign the turn right now so this doesn't die.

sorry loup, sorry abyssia; you had plenty of time... i understand RL gets in teh way sometime but you need to get in touch with us or make arrangements for a sub...

please understand... :)

[Louppatient]

okay, forcign the turn right now so this doesn't die.

sorry loup, sorry abyssia; you had plenty of time... i understand RL gets in teh way sometime but you need to get in touch with us or make arrangements for a sub...

please understand... :)


Hi,

I just had some connection problems, it should be OK now ...

No problem for the hosting, the game should go on :)

[Immaculate]

thanks for your understanding - i felt a little bad- espcially after i totally invaded you- Just jokes :)

[LDiCesare]

Regarding Abysia:
Abysia had been dead for 3 turns now. After he lost his pretender and all his remaining mages while his capital was under siege, he had no chance to survive, so forcing the host was reasonable.
I think once you are eliminated, you're supposed to send in your turn too in order for the game to host, although I'm not sure, so make sure that the game doesn't hold because it's waiting for a .2h from a dead nation.

I also think Abysia was a bit unlucky in initial placement. Too near T'ien Chi and Helheim, which resulted in a crowded southern continent.

[Hoplosternum]

It is best if you concede by turning your nation AI but sending in that last turn. Then there are no hosting issues and the AI can (incompetently) handle your last troops. Assuming your position is not viable.

[GrudgeBringer]

Are we going to get this turn in and then delay the game, or are we extending THIS turn?

I would like to have us all get this turn in and then delay till whenever we agreed upon.

What say you kind souls:angel

[Hoplosternum]

I can probably get my turn in this evening.

[Mardagg]

Regarding Abysia:
I think once you are eliminated, you're supposed to send in your turn too in order for the game to host, although I'm not sure, so make sure that the game doesn't hold because it's waiting for a .2h from a dead nation.



Looks like this.
Abysia has been permanently vanquished,and is still listed as waiting for 2h file.
So,either a force host after tirnanog has played its turn or the admin setting Abysia to AI will solve the problem...otherwise we would have to wait for wednesday.

[Immaculate]

I'm afraid to say this page is a trick, since in fact there is no way to automatically set a nation to AI.

The procedure is this:

1) Ask the player playing the dying nation to set themselves to AI. Many players fail to do so simply because they don't realise they're meant to set their nations to AI when they want to stop playing. If you ask them to, there's a good chance they will.

2) If that fails, you need to either do it yourself, or ask some trusted member of the community to do it. The disadvantage of doing it yourself is that you will see the position of the dying nation and its neighbours, which is a bit dodgy. Finding someone else to do it is a hassle though. I recommend asking someone else from that game who's already been knocked out, or else someone random you've played with before. If you always ask me or Gandalf, we will go mad.

3) Having found someone to set the nation to AI, you need to get the player's turn to them. To do that, change the nation's e-mail address to that player's address, and request a turn resend from the main game page. They then need to open the turn up in Dominions, set the player to AI and e-mail the resulting 2h file back to the LlamaServer.

Phew!


ummm... mojo- can you please just set yourself to AI.

[GrudgeBringer]

Actually its realy not that hard...find a vet that has done this a number of times (POST in the MP forum you will get someone right away) about the time it hosts (or force hosing) and put his email in. turn hosts and when the next turn comes the nation is AI.

I have myself done this a number of times for games.

And YES it isn't good for anyone in the game to do it for reasons already stated:up:.

[Mojo the Avenger]

I'd love to set myself to AI, but I don't know how.

[GrudgeBringer]

Go into your game just like you are going to play the turn (where you see all your Forts and stuff).

On the top right you will see a list and one of them says OPTIONS, click on that and you will see at the top a selection that says "Become Computer Controlled". just hit that heading and it will ask you if you are sure, click yes (or OK or what ever it wants) and your are now AI.

I want to thank you for playing and hoped you enjoyed yourself and also learned 1 thing new.:up:

[GrudgeBringer]

We are waiting only on Tir (Loupatiant) who has staled the last 2 turns with connection problems, but said he was back and good to go.

I have been raising the extension time (no requests) to make sure he has a chance to get his turn in.

My question is: Do we wait till Weds on the chance that he is out of town (though he never asked for an extension), or having connection problems agian.

His nation (by the scores) though a little on the smaller side seems viable and he has peace with his neighbors.

Do we want to wait until Weds for Tir or force host and then take an extension until after Jan 1 or just leep extending it until weds.

Your choice gentlemen:confused:

[Louppatient]

My turn is sent, you can force host if you want :)

[Mojo the Avenger]

Yeah no that option isn't available, and the server isn't sending me current turns anymore.

[LDiCesare]

Mojo, you only need to send turns or turn ai until the turn when you receive the notification that you're dead. Since that turn is already done now, you don't have to do anything.
There's a weird reason why on the turn a nation is killed it must still send its turn, but afterwards the game considers it's never been there (not even in the score graphs).

[Immaculate]

Mardagg, Loupatient,

if you are back from christmas, please get your turns in...

i.

[Slobby]

GG Mardagg! :D

[Mardagg]

gg Slobby.
I like your idea there.

[GrudgeBringer]

I have really never noticed this before but I was the last player to submit their turn,

I just checked E-mail and have not received the next new turn but it shows TC has already completed it and sent in the new turn.

Does llamaserver process turns by areas (say US, Europe, Asia, etc)? Or perhaps by when your turn was submitted?

I'n sure I will receive it soon, just wondered if anyone else had noticed this.:confused:

[LDiCesare]

I often play my turn immediately when I receive it. I suppose the sending of the email isn't processed by area but emails may take more or less time to reach you depending on your email provider. My account is a gmail account, so I don't think the server's located in Europe, although of course that is possible.

[Immaculate]

I will not be able to play dominions after january 7th. I will need a replacement substitute. I will post in the appropriate thread to advertise for one.
Sorry.

does anyone want to take over as admin?

[LDiCesare]

Immac, do you know you can put your dominion folder on a usb key and play from there on any computer?

[Immaculate]

Unfortunately that won't help me.

I have yet to find a replacement player. If any of you know someone it would be nice.

[Mardagg]

i could take over admin,since noone wants to do it.
I am the admin in my other game,too,anyways.
Just message me the password.
Its sad to hear that you have to leave Immac.
I was looking forward to wage some battles with you somewhere in the future.
Hope you will find a sub,since such a big nation going AI would pretty much change everything in our game:(

[Immaculate]

grudge said he would if no one else wanted it but i think he would rather not admin (thats the impression i got). So i will PM you the password.

[Immaculate]

Hi- i thought i would advertise here. I got a good position with HELHEIM in DAVID AND GOLIATH ( RUNNING: First Newbie game, let's discuss how we proceed here) which is a newbie game. First in territory, okay in gems and research -got some nice thugs

Please check out that thread... its a pretty cool game and there has been lots of war and soon helheim should be bringing the gates of death to the world. it would be a shame to AI.

someone save me. :)

[Mardagg]

I think its the best to make a new thread in the Multiplayer forum,advertising both of your nations.
Many players just look over new threads being posted and neither actually read "old" game threads nor know about the special thread for finding subs.

Password received.

[Mardagg]

I am the new admin now.
If its urgent,its always better to post here AND send me a PM,because i get my PM`s emailed.

Please welcome our new Sauromatia player,Murph73:)

[Murph73]

Hello just introducing myself here and wanted to tell you that im glad i could join.

[GrudgeBringer]

Welcome Murph and Thank you for helping out!!!

If he did not tell you your treaty obligations and who your friends are you might want to ask.

Other than that, this is a pretty straight forward game.

[GrudgeBringer]

Just getting us back on first page

[GrudgeBringer]

just putting us back on the front page

[GrudgeBringer]

First page

[Immaculate]

How is everything going? Who's kicking @ss? getting their @ss kicked?

[GrudgeBringer]

Actually, it has been pretty quiet.....so far

How have you been?

[GrudgeBringer]

What are we doing about Tir...we lose over a day each turn because of him. Lets get the sub, set him AI or force host. but lets get the game moving...

[Ossa]

I'd say force host and let god... the other gods sort his goods out.

[Mardagg]

This game is casual,so i will keep the 72h quickhosting anyways.
Since Hellheim and Sauromatia do need that 72h most of the time,we wont have a difference if i set Tir to AI except for diplomatic reasons ;)

Btw,personally,i wouldnt feel obliged to keep honoring a NAP with a person that is stalling for like 5 turns in a row and that has stalled several times before,already.

I will send him a PM,if he stalls again this turn.If he doesnt answer,well,lets see.

[GrudgeBringer]

I can live with that..I never had a Nap with him anyway.

[LDiCesare]

Actually, it has been pretty quiet.....so far

How have you been?
Quiet?
I've been attacked by Abysia early on, and then by Helheim. Damn. I haven't had a single peaceful turn the whole game. You should pick more interesting neighbours!
Immac, R'lyeh is dead. Sauromatia is continuing on its way, T'ien Chi and Helheim are fighting a hard war, and although T'ien Chi managed to take some forts my research is still pitiful, while Helheim's still got a way better magic research and sneaking thugs everywhere. So I think this war is not going to be quiet and will last for quite a while.
But looking at the other nations' flat graphs, I suppose it's quiet up there in the norther realms.

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, it looks like its starting to ramp up a little....

Should get interesting from here on out.:D

[GrudgeBringer]

just putting us on page 1 agian

[GrudgeBringer]

Page 1 agian

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[Mardagg]

Guys,we have to do something about Tir and also Sauromatia,it seems.
I had a lot of things to do the last week,otherwise i would ve acted earlier.
Am i right,that Sauromatia also did stall the last 2-3 turns?

As i see it,we need a new sub for Sauro and maybe should just set Tir to AI?
Tell me what you think about it.

[Mardagg]

Tir didnt answer to my email btw.Thats really sad:(

[GrudgeBringer]

Sigh...I just found that Tir has about 170 Draconians on my Flank...guess I am glad he is gone or I would have been gone.

Who is playing Sauro?

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[13lackGu4rd]

you guys still need a sub for any nation? I can gladly take 1, doing quite a lot of subbing lately and I'm just looking for more ;)

[Mardagg]

We can happily offer Sauromatia:)

Pretty big and strong nation,even though it stalled now for like 3-4 turns.Its still very healthy though,since noone did backstab it so far!Ive seen some nice SC`s...its the only real blood nation left in this game anyway.

If you send me your email via message here i will switch sauro to your adress and you can request a turn resend on llamaserver.
I would postpone the hosting time for you by 24 hours.

[LDiCesare]

Yes, it would be nice to have a human player for Sauromatia. If you take over, I'll have to fill you in with regards to current diplomatic state wrt T'ien Chi.

[Mardagg]

Ive postponed the turn by 24 hours.
Thank god we finally got a sub for Sauromatia:)

[13lackGu4rd]

can you give me another 24 hours, seems like I have a lot of catching up to do, both in terms of my new empire and all the diplomacy and stuff... hopefully you guys can fill me in on all the diplomacy and war issues than after that I can finish studying my new empire and deciding where to take it from here.

[Mardagg]

delay granted.

I will be away until late sunday.

[GrudgeBringer]

first page

[13lackGu4rd]

first page

and it seems that the Sauromatia I was given was not doing that badly after all. a bit weird and unexpected but I think I got the hang of it ;) too bad you're so stubborn Grudge, we really could have worked something out, but you can have it your way since you insist...

and by the way, why is TNN not set to AI yet? it obviously has nothing worth fighting with any more, caught between quite a few large hammers and a huge anvil :P

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, you kind of put it as an ultimatum, and claimed that whole island with the threat that you would "leave me alone" if I ran back across the water.

It doesn't matter if I lose or win...it matters that I won't be dictated to.

However, I hold you personally no Grudge (no pun intended) and wish you well.:up:

[LDiCesare]

Things stirring up a bit more up northe then?
I hold a grudge against Arco. My poor scouts keep dying when I send them there. They are just peaceful tourists! Do you realise how long it took them to arrive there?

[13lackGu4rd]

well Grudge, it was an ultimatum because the way I saw the situation you're already tied up way over your head, while I'm pretty safe up here and in need of expansion(like all of us), so the local balance of power seems to be grossly in my favor, but you wouldn't just freely give me the island, now would you...? hence I decided to give you a peaceful way out, and perhaps even help you with your other wars, you declined so you've just got another front to your already raging war...

I too ask you to not hold any grudges(no pun intended) I'm just analyzing my situation and trying to make the best out of it... :angel

[13lackGu4rd]

well, this thread is pretty dead these days :\ it seems that Helheim, TNN(AI or just staling constantly) and Arco are about to bite the dust real soon. apparently I(or well, mostly the person I subbed for) had a lot to do with Helheim's demise, by allying up with TC. but it's a real shame that you have to go down so hard and fast Grudge. the others seem to be pretty well established, and I got Sauromatia back up and kicking fiercely, so don't worry fellows ;)

[LDiCesare]

Helheim shouold go down, but he still has 20+ mages in one province, which makes for a tough nut to crack. Plus sneaky thugs. It's going to be long because my units tend to die a lot when fighting 28 enemy mages.
I'm just realising the tartarians I saw in the black provinces were actually Agarthans attacking Helheim and not Helhheim tarts! Must change orders soon in order to avoid diplomatic complications. What with those black flags all looking like each other...

[Hoplosternum]

Hmmm, I seem to be being attacked by the three largest factions. I must remember to sack my foreign minister before the end :p

[LDiCesare]

Hmmm, I seem to be being attacked by the three largest factions. I must remember to sack my foreign minister before the end :p
You certainly are. I suggest sending all your sneaky troops towards Agartha, I don't think he saw many of these thugs of yours, considering how many were busy fighting me and those I saw against Sauromatia. He should have some of the fun for jopining in late ;)

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah I liked that golem of yours, especially since I had nothing better in the proximity ;) Agartha should certainly have some of that fun as well, especially the tougher things, and you know what I'm talking about... ;)

[Mardagg]

ive watched most battles anyways.Probably over 100 battle reports over the course of the whole war.
But if you think Agartha is afraid of some of the better troops,you should better reestimate the strength of Agartha at this point.

We have only attacked 1 province from Hellheim so far,the other was neutral territory for some turns.
Basically not to punish brave Hellheim but to prevent the agressors from getting more borders to me.
Its pretty easy to spot for everyone that Agartha could have intervened in that war much,much earlier,either getting a much bigger piece of the cake or to make life much worse for the other side.You should never forget that.
Dont wake a sleeping (cave) dragon.

We dont intend to take further actions btw...for the moment.

[13lackGu4rd]

it seems to me like Agartha is drunk with power, and grossly underestimating the rest of the world. oh, and as for stepping into others' wars, aren't you like helping us stomp Arco these days...? we all know that this weird balance of power between us "big" nations will break sooner rather than later, the small guys will perish soon enough...

by the way, I still don't quite understand why Sauromatia was up for subbing for so long, the previous owner did some weird things but he didn't do poorly at all... and it's not like somebody was or for that matter still is threatening Sauromatia with an overwhelming force... nobody is safe, there would only be 1 in the end, and yes that includes you too Agartha. you're not as invincible as you might think, despite the score graphs which are grossly in your favor...

oh, and I liked your metaphor of the sleeping dragon, so I'll rip it off from you and suggest that neither you nor anybody else wake the sleeping demon, which would be me... :P

oh, and those tarts of yours are not as scary as you may think...

[Mardagg]

?
I am still respecting my NAP with Arco.

For the record,you are the third ruler for Sauro.We had another sub before you,who disappeared after like 3 turns.
You can thank the original sauro player for a very good position who happended to be also the game admin.I only took over admin because no one else wanted to do it.
Luckily all nations behaved ethical by not attacking Sauro when it was idle for quite some time.
Again,Agartha right after winning the war vs the squids, would have had easily the armies ready right at your borders,to invade undefended/unplayed Sauromatia.;)

Dont get me wrong,i like a lot that we got a very active player now for Sauro.
Still,your Nation has been idle for long,TC is waging war forever and Ermor is just lately growing to a real power...by seemingly meeting no resistance at all.
The truth about the real Balance of Power is out there.Its not tough to see.And if you think we are underestimating the power of Blood Magic,then you are the one making a mistake.
We do know exactly what you can field.
And you can be sure,we are not counting solely on our Tarts.
Especially since we are not the only one fielding those.

[13lackGu4rd]

well, invading an idle player would be easy, now wouldn't it... :P I am surprised however that Arco is losing just to Ermor, and now my rather minor interference... so yeah, Ermor and you will soon be fighting over the dominance on the main island. TC, after finishing off Helheim, will have his own island all for himself, and once I finish clearing off Arco's refugees I'll have my own island. than the power balance will start to be a lot clearer.

yeah, we all know what each of us can field, the strengths and weaknesses of each nation are no secret, nor are the end game possibilities... I guess it'll come out to who uses the tools at his disposal in the best way.

[LDiCesare]

I don't think I ever said or implied Agartha would falter against my armies, nor that they profitted from Helheim. I'd jsut like some of those Helheim guys to die without killing some of my troops. Not that I believe said troops would last very long against SC's. I mean, I have chariots who are jsut there to get rid of Helheim's chaff so the mages might be hit by some melee units, and to avoid too much skeleton spamming. I don't expect my chariots or warriors of the five elements to defeat tartarians and the like.

[Hoplosternum]

I have submitted my turn but in 3.24

I hope this won't cause a problem. I have upgraded already (it was a mistake!) so I am a bit stuck now....

As my game is all but over it won't matter too much if I stall. But I'd rather get in what may be my last meaningful turn.

Bring on those tarts TC :) And that Dragon I know you have skulking about down south :p

[Mardagg]

I don't think I ever said or implied Agartha would falter against my armies, nor that they profitted from Helheim.

Certainly right.I just wanted to clarify at that point that speaking of 3 large factions attacking Hellheim isnt nearly the whole story/truth,as well as that one of the 2 territories i occupied with a Tart have been neutral.Everything else was just in response to other statements.

@ Hoplo

I think you will be fine.
Especially since we are not using any mod in addition.
We probably all have to update after this turn anyways.

[Mardagg]

Tir will be set to AI today, i have found someone willing to do it.
So,from now on,this could mean some more turns per month.

[Hoplosternum]

Not while I linger on waiting until the very end before I hand in my turn:p Could be all over this turn as probably the fourth straight assault on my Capital will occur....

If I do survive this turn has anyone got any gems? I have 15 Skull Mentors, 1 Lightless lantern, 5 Hammers and a Fire Skull. All at very low discount prices :) I only need a few gems - especially air and earth (but I can use any including blood slaves to good use) - so I can carry on casting battlefield spells. I will accept anti-TC donations too :p

[Hoplosternum]

We still live :D And TCs god is dead. Again....

[LDiCesare]

Yes, he got paralysed once too much. Don't worry, he'll come back.
I must confess I'm just sending in tons of stuff at your capital and look how many commanders died in the fight at the end. After a while, I'll grind all of them down. The twiceborn don't help, but eventually, Helheim will be gone.

[13lackGu4rd]

seems like Arco's god and a few of Ermor's Tartarians have committed suicide :o PD+support, nothing major... oh and Ermor, don't worry, I'm watching your every move, once we finish dealing with Arco an engagement between us looks unavoidable... or perhaps Agartha would prefer to drop by? :P

[13lackGu4rd]

going out of town until thursday, my current turn is in but I won't be able to play the next turn until I get back, so I'll need an extension...

[GrudgeBringer]

Ok folks, I am going to be dead either next turn or the one after.

Thanks to all for a GREAT game that ran rather smoothly, I enjoyed it.

I am admin in three games and thought I was in this one too (sigh), but I tried a simple test and it seems I am not. So whoever is admmin needs to catch the extension needed for (I 'think' Sauro) this turn.

If for some reason I do turn out to be the admin, just PM me and I will try and figure out the password, because I would have taken it over from someone else.

Please Ermor or Sauro, get the final stroke in so I can die a warriors death.:up:

[Mardagg]

i am the admin grudge;)

hosting extended by 24 hours,should be enough.

Since i am not regularly looking at this thread,its generally better to write me a personal message,which i get emailed,in case u want an urgent extension or something.

gg Grudgebringer.

[GrudgeBringer]

Thanks...See you in the next one!!

[Hoplosternum]

Bye Grudge! Didn't think I would outlast you in this one.

[GrudgeBringer]

Hang in there Hoplo, guess I didn't see it coming this time.

Guess I have to learn that lesson every so often!!:)

[13lackGu4rd]

back 1 day sooner than expected. got my turn in now, so we can go back to normal schedule ;)

[13lackGu4rd]

been getting some weird things lately, the latest 1 being immortal vamp lords and vamps not respawning at my capital after death inside my own dominion. also had a few replay bugs in previous turns. anybody else received strange behaviors?

[Mardagg]

i watched the battle.
If you click on morale of one of your vamps you will quickly see,that it was not your dominion.
The thing to consider when battling with immortals is,that the turn order for this is important:

1. preaching happens

2. battles occur

3. dominion is spread by temples

so...if you have positive dominion in the turn you order to attack it might change due to preaching priests,renember that these can be stealthy!
Likewise...if you see you have positive dominion after the battle in the province,it might be because your dominion spread to a positive number just AFTER the battle.

[13lackGu4rd]

see, the thing is, I had positive dominion before and after the battle, so I don't see how stealth preaching or anything of that sort could change the dominion to neutral, but not long enough to last a single turn... the morale thing you saw is probably part of the bug I'm talking about...

[Mardagg]

see, i am encountering that in my other game all the time.
I am up vs a very strong dominion and using dozens of priests preaching.
I am always -10 dominion before battles and -10 after battles.
But my dozens inquisitor priests assure me positive dominion many a times for actual battles.


Say you have +2 dom when you order to attack.
Then preachers change it to -1 e.g.
Then the battle happens at -1.
Then your temples put your dominion back to say +3.

Thats the mechanic.
It doesnt matter what the dom was the turn before the battle.
The actually dominion after preaching only matters for battles and is not visible as such on the map since is altered every time by normal dom spreads.
That way,you never can be 100% certain when odering vamps to attack,unless you either got very high dominion before preaching or are sure enemy hasnt preaching in that province or bring lots of you your own preachers.

[13lackGu4rd]

well, I find it hard to believe that TNN(AI control) is actually stealth preaching over there. Ermor doesn't have national stealth preachers so that's also out of the question. that leaves you, and you don't have national stealth preachers either... so it's a nice theory but I still find it pretty hard to believe that this is actually the case here... but well, I guess it is possible that 1 of you is massively stealth preaching over there with stealthy indies or whatever, but still rather unlikely...

[Mardagg]

why stealth preaching?

He is besieging you there,you were trying to break the siege.
He can just order his commanders to preach.
I just took a quick peak at his commanders in the battle and saw several with priest level.

I didnt know that the AI is capable of doing this,but it makes perfect sense.
Since,as i already said,i was doing the same all the time in my game,where i was besieging like half a dozen castles with -10 dom.

Furthermore, could you swear ,that your dominion was positive last turn?
Maybe you did look at the wrong candles last turn? Happened to me in the past.

Most of the time its not a bug in the game ,but just a human mistake in such a case.

Battle reports being a little buggy at times is a known issue though,but this a whole different situation:
Sometimes the outcome of the battle is different then what was shown in the report. This is the bug.
But in your case,the outcome and the report were the same.
Its just VERY unlikely that this is a bug.

[LDiCesare]

FINALLY.
Some peace now?...
Well played Hoplosternum. You've been a pain.
Interestingly enough, your banished great enchantress is still perfectly visible on the map as an indy commander. Funny.

[Hoplosternum]

Bye everyone and thanks for the game. Especially LDC. Good game, you definitely taught me a thing or two about the potential of EA TC!

Good Luck everyone :)

[13lackGu4rd]

now that Helheim is dead and Arco+TNN don't have any independent provinces(their remaining forts are being sieged) it seems that we're moving onto a 4 player war, and from 4 shall leave 1 victorious.

I don't even remember what you guys told me about previous pacts you had or didn't have with the previous owner of Sauromatia, so to make things easier I'm canceling all diplomatic relations I may or may not had with any of you. I assume the most common would be NAP-3 so consider this the first turn of warning, whoever I may be NAPed with... just don't want to tie my(and well, all of our) hands now that we're down to 4 players...

[Mardagg]

gg Hoplo and sorry for the domkill.

@ Sauromatia

Ok,we take notice of you canceling our NAP3.
We are Turn 66...on Turn 69 the first battles between our nations might occur.

[Mardagg]

Interestingly enough, your banished great enchantress is still perfectly visible on the map as an indy commander. Funny.

This always happens after a domkill.
The remaining troops stay on the map for 1 turn,doing nothing,and then just vanish the turn after.
Furthermore, if you attack the province they wont even participate in the battle.

[13lackGu4rd]

gg Hoplo and sorry for the domkill.

@ Sauromatia

Ok,we take notice of you canceling our NAP3.
We are Turn 66...on Turn 69 the first battles between our nations might occur.

oh, good to know that we had a NAP... after all those Ghost Riders, Black Deaths and all those other things you threw at me I was wondering why you didn't actually make an offensive move besides hiding behind cowardly "anonymous" spells...

[Mardagg]

1. i am getting blasted by several anonymus spells per turn myself.

2. since i cant prove who it is ,i prefer to stay calm with any accusations here.

3. i advise you to do the same.

4. Agartha did say already 3 times in this thread that it had NAP3 with you and will continue to honor the treaty.Your memory must not be the best.
We did not violate the treaty at any time in the game.

See you on the battlefield.

[13lackGu4rd]

1. i am getting blasted by several anonymus spells per turn myself.

2. since i cant prove who it is ,i prefer to stay calm with any accusations here.

in your case I'd have to agree. being the top dog naturally makes you enemies...

3. i advise you to do the same.

unfortunately I know for a *fact* that it's you. obviously I can't actually *prove* it because you use anonymous spells, but there are other ways of *knowing*...

4. Agartha did say already 3 times in this thread that it had NAP3 with you and will continue to honor the treaty.Your memory must not be the best.
We did not violate the treaty at any time in the game.

See you on the battlefield.

well, this thread was pretty dead until not so long ago, so I could have just forgotten about it. as for "honoring the treaty" I guess that depends on what the definition of a NAP is, which seems to be a very hot topic these days... this thread: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45171 is an example, but there are also local arguments about NAPs in specific games... seems like many people consider harmful spells as breaking a NAP, and it seems like a no brainer that Ghost Riders, Black Deaths, etc are in fact harmful... however I won't hold it against you in this game, and as I said, I canceled all NAPs in order to prevent this very thing we're discussing now... this doesn't mean I'll attack you as soon as it ends, or anybody else for that matter, it just means that whenever I do decide to attack someone it won't be breaking any NAPs...

[Mardagg]

unfortunately I know for a *fact* that it's you. obviously I can't actually *prove* it because you use anonymous spells, but there are other ways of *knowing*...


Since we all field Tartarians it seems pretty obvious that all remaining Nations,as well as Hellheim, are/have been able to cast those spells you mentioned.
I highly doubt that you can be sure enough to *know*.



well, this thread was pretty dead until not so long ago, so I could have just forgotten about it. as for "honoring the treaty" I guess that depends on what the definition of a NAP is, which seems to be a very hot topic these days... this thread: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45171 is an example, but there are also local arguments about NAPs in specific games... seems like many people consider harmful spells as breaking a NAP, and it seems like a no brainer that Ghost Riders, Black Deaths, etc are in fact harmful... however I won't hold it against you in this game, and as I said, I canceled all NAPs in order to prevent this very thing we're discussing now... this doesn't mean I'll attack you as soon as it ends, or anybody else for that matter, it just means that whenever I do decide to attack someone it won't be breaking any NAPs...

yeah,no problem about the memory.
This thread wasnt too active in the past,thats right.

Concerning NAP`s,this is much more complicated.
There are games with binding diplomacy,as a house rule, in these games it sure is debatable on what spells are actually breaking the treaty.But even there,generally someone actually has to admit it before actions can be taken imo,unless there really is some way of 99% knowing it,like air spells being used heavily with only 1 Nation that got access to it.

Anyways,lets move on.
Agartha thinks as well,that a cancelation of a NAP is not the same as a declaration of war.
We will see what the future will bring;)

[LDiCesare]

I don't remember if I had a NAP with Agartha either. If I had, it is cancelled. T'ien Ch'i strongly suspects Agartha to have sent its magic assassin minions against our lands, and we won't let this be.

[Mardagg]

we have NAP3,just look at your past PM`s/emails.

I didnt send anything vs you ever.
What kind of magic assassin do you speak of if i may ask?

Well then,so be it!
If you attack me before turn 72 you break the treaty.

(Personally we would feel extremely offended by this because Agartha did honor this NAP for a looong time,not backstabbing you ever,while having the possibilty to do so and/ or grabbing much more land from Hellheim)

[LDiCesare]

I thought we had a nap, but looking for them in the PM's, mails etc. is sometimes tedious. Now I'm sure :D. As for the assassination attempts, several kinds. Earth and death mostly. Can be anyone really, but you seem the most likely to care about it. Plus now you've eaten quite a bit of Sauromatia and can't be let running with the game. If it was Sauromatia, I doubt they'd keep sending stuff at me. Ermor is a possibility but they are quite far away so I can't see why they'd bother.

[Mardagg]

I thought we had a nap, but looking for them in the PM's, mails etc. is sometimes tedious. Now I'm sure :D. As for the assassination attempts, several kinds. Earth and death mostly. Can be anyone really, but you seem the most likely to care about it. Plus now you've eaten quite a bit of Sauromatia and can't be let running with the game. If it was Sauromatia, I doubt they'd keep sending stuff at me. Ermor is a possibility but they are quite far away so I can't see why they'd bother.

Yeah no problem.
The cancelation doesnt surprise me/catch me off guard anyways:D

Regarding spells:

Dont forget that some items provoke assassination attempts.
E.g. my Pretender is horror marked and wielding some uniques...he is getting attacked once a turn on average by ashen angels,horrors and all kind of other stuff.
I mean,seriously,i got some gems...but i cant cast dozens of spells every turn on everyone of you!
Wouldnt it make much more sense for me to harrass sauro in preparation of my assault?


Anyways,on turn 72 the battles may begin.
At last, a war for you... again,lol;)

[Mardagg]

On a different note:

This game is meant to be casual.
Now that some pretty complicated turns are soon to be expected,i would like to get to a 96h quickhost schedule,probably starting with Turn 70 or Turn 71.
What do you think?

I am in huge endgame wars in all 3 of my games...pretty tough turns therefore atm(even though 1 game is at break currently).

[13lackGu4rd]

works for me, I'm in plenty of other games to help me fill up my time ;)

[LDiCesare]

It's ok for me too.

[13lackGu4rd]

can I have a 24 hour extension please?

[Mardagg]

ok,24h extension granted.

[Mardagg]

96h hosting from now on.

...of course Ermor got my GoH down with his Nexus:mad:

worst case scenario!

[LDiCesare]

Ermor, since you cast Arcane Nexus, T'ien Ch'i declares war on you (too). Anyone wanting to get rid of that thing can take contact with us.

[Mardagg]

Agartha hereby cancels the NAP5 with Ermor.
On turn 75 first battles might occur.

[Mardagg]

*bump*

Ermor ,if you attack me before Turn 75 you are breaking our treaty.

[Ossa]

Hmm... would it matter in any way?

Agartha has de facto won this game already. I do not even believe Ermor would stand a chance if TC would join (which would make much more sense) Ermor and topple our supreme power instead of siding with the winner.

Even with the nexus up Ermor doesnt even come close to your gem income.

I will happily accept the second place behind any other nation but Agartha, as they were leading from the beginning on. So, TC, in case you change your mind - if we manage to win against all odds (and Agartha) I'd immideately declare you the winner of this game.

[Mardagg]

To me breaking a treaty does matter in any case!

Its simply the other way round, if you REALLY think i am such a overwhelming power,you could also just wait until turn 75 and doing it the correct way,given that we have had a loong lasting peace in this game;)
And we are now Turn 71 already...so its really not much waiting anymore.Actually I can morally live with all of you allying vs me...as long as you keep honoring treaties.


(Sauro is still alive(but didnt do orders at least for last turn)
You are much stronger with the Nexus than you are telling us here.Especially from a long war you would profit a lot.Combined with Tien Chi you are more powerful than me ...and with the Nexus its pretty easy to assume that you will come out much stronger if both of you manage to defeat me.)

[LDiCesare]

The Nexus is enough to make Ermor more of a threat long term than Agartha in my opinion. It's not a spell you want to cast if you don't expect everyone to attack you, ever. Why should I join forces with Ermor to attack Agartha now? I'd have to build items for my SC's. That would bring gems to Ermor. I might want to cast spells. That would strengthen Ermor. Should I defeat Agartha with Ermor and Sauromatia's help, who would have a gem income of twice or thrice my own?
I was to attack Agartha on next turn, and this was public knowledge. But the Nexus makes it a bad idea. Should we defeat Agartha, Ermor would have twice as much income as I, so the game would be won by them. No point. Taking out the Nexus is top priority over everything else, sorry.
If you want TC to attack Agartha now, dispel your own global or suicide its caster.

[Mardagg]

So,Ermor,you did indeed break our NAP by attacking already this turn!
You are not trustworthy at all and will be treated as such from now on.
I can only warn everyone else that Ossa does not care about treaties.

Agartha will soon unleash the full power on Ermor, we have got some nice suprises planned for you!
Expect to get totally stomped by us:mad:

See you on the battlefield.

[Ossa]

I dont expect anything else, actually. I wouldnt have broken the NAP if I believed in any different outcome but your victory.

Nice move stomping TC anyway though, I almost suspected as much.

[LDiCesare]

Not really difficult to be honest. I have good research but I spent a lot of energy fighting Helheim. I have never been at peace in this game, didn't set up any global, and don't have any SC worth talking about to oppose Agartha's. That and my mages are much more squishy than his.

[Mardagg]

dont worry, Ermor is throwing enough Sc`s vs me to offset your weakness;)

[Mardagg]

guys, I will be away from Monday 3rd of May to 10th of May.
Lets try to get 1 more turn in before i leave.

Since Sauro hast stalled for like 4 turns in a row now,i will force host as soon as the rest of us has got their turns in,so that you get to play 1 more turn while i am away.
I will then postpone hosting until the 11th of May.

That means we will have a 1 time 8 days hosting intervall instead of 4.
I hope thats ok for everyone.

@ Sauromatia

Its pretty disappointing that you just disappeared as soon as the action began.
You could at least set your Nation to AI now.
Thank you.

[Mardagg]

just a reminder:

Since the 3 remaining active nations have posted their turns, I will force host this evening(in around 6 hours from now), in order to get to the right hosting schedule before i leave.
If you want to change your orders,do it now or send me a message.

gl for the turn.:)

[Mardagg]

ok guys.
I will be back on the 10th of May.
I should probably be able to play my turn on the 11th of May.
have a nice week!

[Mardagg]

1 more thing before I leave:

Looking at page 2 and 3 of this thread, we have to talk about the victory condition now.
I have no problem with a consensus,but if its 60% of the provinces i just reached that number;)

(60% of 221=132.6 and i got 137)

[LDiCesare]

Since I was the one to propose 60% in the first place, I would definitely agree with calling it a victory of yours.
Anyway, I have hardly anything left to fight you. A dragon, an immortal, so few tartarians that it's laughable, and no gargoyle left. Even when my troops hold yours in a fort, my leaders flee (thanks mechanical men to hold off indefinitely fire gnomes, but that was useless).

[Ossa]

Mrf... I dont think I'll take you down alone:/ Unfortunatly I didnt even notice Sauro was stalling.

I'd agree to calling it over with Agartha as the winner.
I'd like to play this game on in solo though if noone else wants to;)

[Mardagg]

ok guys, I am back.

Agartha is declared winner of the game.:)

I will post my turn file and some more things soon.

@ Ermor

if i get it right,you want to keep on playing that game solo on Llamaserver.
In that case,Tien,Sauro and me have to go AI,right?

I have no problem with this.
If Tien agrees to this,i will send you the admin password,too.

@ all

Thanks for a great game!

[Mardagg]

below you will find my turn file.

Basically the game went very good for me after the forced Early war vs Ryleh.Even though i basically took Agartha on this map because i wanted to compete with the Squids for the Water territories(because i think controlling the water is the key to victory on Cradle), he catched me offguard by attacking instantly the turn he neigboured one of my provinces.
This war did hurt my research a lot,but luckily i was able to win it pretty quick.
After that,i did go heavily for site searching and did find quite a lot of sites early on.
I was pretty unlucky though in finding rare sites and Astral or Blood indies(only 1 Shaman province,zero blood access).
I discovered pretty early that Hellheim did have some very good sites,but i wanted to close my research gap first...later on i didnt want to interefere in the very interesting fight between Tien and Hellheim...i was really enjoying watching those battles every turn,having scouts in most provinces.
All in all, It was pretty game deciding imo that Sauromatia was idle for quite some time and later on it was only played the 2 or
3 first turns of our war.
that way i was able to conquer most of his territorry ultra-quick.
I must say though,that i was able to kill most of his unique SC`s right at the start of the war,when he was still playing his turns.So even if he would have kept on playing i dont think he would have been able to really "hurt" me.
the war with Tien Chi afterwards was pretty much very tough to play for LDICesare,since i did prepare for this already like 20 turns ago and didnt use many troops vs Sauro,so that i was able to launch full scale attacks from all sides,with my own territory pretty well fortified because he didnt have the time to prepare for attacking water territorries after his looong lasting war vs Hellheim.Also i had much superior SC`s,which didnt surprise me since i hade GoH up for quite the time and i knew the chalice was in hands of Ermor.
I must admit though,that I didnt think Ermor would break our treaty.That way i did have some trouble at the start here,since i only was prepared for defending...counterattacks took me some time because of comlicated logistics..if you look at my turn file you will quickly see though,that within the next turns, this would have changed drastically and I indeed think that Ermor wouldnt have had a chance here,since every turn i could free more armies and SC`s from the war vs Sauro and Tien to throw vs Ermor.The Nexus didnt worry me too much,since i was wishing for Blood Slaves like every turn and with the 40% Blood Site in (52),i woulda soon have become a very strong blood nation,too,fielding all blood uniques in no time.

Agartha is very underestimated imo in the way how powerful the easy water access is,expecially early on and especially in non-cbm games,where there are no easy to get manuals of water breathing.
Coupled with strong national summons and easy access to Army of Gold,Agartha definately is a well rounded nation.
For Me,Agartha is a pretty good Nation in EA.

I have attached the turn file.
Notable sites are:

-40% blood in (52),did belong to hellheim most of the game.
-(16) is my Mind Hunt base,with like 6 or 7 hunters checking vs 17 or 18 MR withe the penetration boosters.I believe i took down over 20 mostly fully equipped SC`s in this game with Mind Hunts.
-(76) is my 20 conj site,though its Underwater.I never had the time to move many E4 Mages there to spam Earth Attacks for 4 gems,sadly.But my Water Queens,Trolls,etc. all had a nice discount.
-(68) 20 Constr site,did belong to Hellheim as well.Just starting to use it.
-(57) 20 evo site,pretty nice for spamming flames from the sky and fires from afar.Didnt have much targets in this game so far yet,though.

gg,hope to see you in other games as well!

[LDiCesare]

I've attached my trn too in case someone's interested.

I had a very disappointing early game.
I planned to attack R'lyeh early on, surprising them with my Demons of Heavenly Rivers, who can breathe underwater and are pretty good early on.
Unfortunately, R'lyeh got slaughtered by Agartha (and I don't think EA Agartha is weak either - umbrals, magma children, Earth attack spammers with lots of hit points, amphibious troops - those who call them weak didn't play them much imo).
Worse, Abysia declared war on me as soon as we met. This forced me to recruit warriors of the 5 elements en masse, as they cut through abysia troops like butter and their 50% FR comes in handy.
The war against Abysia was rather easy and fast, but it prevented me from attacking R'lyeh and let Agartha dominate all the water provinces.
Then, Helheim attacked me before Abysia was even dead. I managed to get some help from Sauromatia, but the war was long and hard. Warriors of the 5 elements became scarcer and are not the best choice against Helheim. I didn't have time to switch to archers armies and my research lagged a lot because of the war effort.
I managed to clam a lot, but I didn't put the gems to any good use. I was staggered when I found the 40% blood site in Helheim, which wasn't protected by a fort, didn't have at least 25 PD on it and no blood mages therein. I think Helheim might have won the war if he had put that site to use. I don't remember what his scales were, though.
Anyway, my late attacks against Helheim cost me a lot of troops and I was a bit careless in letting myself suffer many casualties when trying to take out his last fort.
I was also unlucky in having an Earth attack kill the ether lord I had just empowered to get a powerful S mage, while there were many other commanders in the province.
Basically, I think the wars I fought during the whole game prevented me from putting up a good fight in the end. I also miscalculated the time of the NAP end by 1 turn, but it wouldn't have changed much anyhow, but the decisive factor for me was that I had to use my gems and wizards to fight Helheim, lost a few tarts and nice gargoyles when other nations turtled and built strength.
The Nexus was also a pain for me. In case I managed to hold off Agartha by some kind of miracle, I would have given so many gems to Ermor that it wouldn't have been remotely interesting to keep playing.

Conclusion: This was a pleasant game and well done to Mardagg.

[LDiCesare]

Mh? I just received a turn. I thought this was over. Ossa, if you want to keep playing it solo, can you see with llamabeast to retrieve the fatherland file and stuff and we close the game?