APC Development and related topics.

[DRG]

They arrived in Germany for testing in Dec 2017 and I have adjusted the date we have in the game now to reflect that. This game is all about " what if" and as of December 2017 there were some for in place for " what if" or are we talking about a different vehicle?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just got home. STRYKER DRAGOON was there (2017) for evaluation only IAW with the current contracts with the now 4 industry corporations involved in the current evaluation ongoing process. That FUE is straight from the USA, all I did was convert "Fiscal Quarters" to their corresponding months and calendar year.

This is in "limbo" right now with the congressional investigation currently ongoing. Again WHY did the other 2 companies drop from the evaluation? Congress wants to know is there a problem as yet undisclosed? Is the STRYKER DRAGOON turret not compatible with the vehicle?

It is important to understand the USA did the development of this piece of equipment and built it from "off the shelf" parts. What could possibly go wrong there?

They are the ones to open it up and chose the defense contractors to further evaluate this equipment because you need industry to mass produce it and develop or improve future and current technologies.

Based on my readings of the refs and more STRYKER DRAGOON is looking more "Putting the Cart before the Horse".

USA should've set the design parameters and operational requirements.

Industry should've designed and submitted the PROTOTYPEs.

And we all how the rest goes from there...I suspect an issue with the turret possibly making the platform unstable somehow.

All I know for sure is the USA has pushed back the date before it equips the FIRST Army Unit.

It sucks but, I can't get around that.

I'm back a little later (Why? :rolleyes:)...

"Quick bites" with a couple of my questions asked from above now answered below concerning the 2 "dropouts".

First PROTOTYPE 26 January 2017
https://www.army.mil/article/177472/first_stryker_vehicle_prototype_with_30_mm_cannon_ delivered_to_army

Competition extended 13 April 2020 Focus on Para #3
https://www.globaldefensecorp.com/2020/04/13/us-army-extends-up-gunned-stryker-competition-again/

Add on #1...
From this early ref. 2 May 2018.
"In FY17, the Army conducted full-up system-level (FUSL) live fire testing of the ICV-D to assess platform survivability against a spectrum of operationally realistic threats. ]Preliminary assessments demonstrate that stowed 30 mm ammunition on the ICV-D represents a unique platform vulnerability that is not present on other vehicles in the Stryker fleet. Underbody protection afforded by the ICV-D is limited due to the flat-bottom Stryker hull.

In FY17, the Army also conducted a user excursion using soldiers from the 2nd Cavalry Regiment (2CR) to validate development of gunnery training tables to support the operational test in February 2018 in Germany."

The chassis has the Double V-Hull underbody as noted in #3.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2018_global_defense_security_army_news_industr y/stryker_icv-ds_delivered_to_us_2nd_cavalry_rgt_battle_group_po land.html

Add on #2
Current ref. 21 June 2019

" The MCWS program will be carried out in two phases, which will culminate in equipping a Stryker DVH A1 brigade in fiscal 2022, according to the Army."
https://sdquebec.ca/fr/nouvelle/following-protest-us-army-awards-6th-contract-for-upgunned-stryker-design

Add on #3
Current ref. 22 June 2020

"In a call with reporters June 16, Col. Bill Venable, the project manager for Stryker brigade combat teams, fielded questions about the health of the MCWS competition, but declined to identify at this sensitive stage which companies dropped out. He said he is satisfied the Army will have options when it begins the next phase of the MCWS competition on Aug. 10.

“I will say this a healthy competition,” Venable said. “We’re going to present a variety of choices to the source-selection authority to evaluate.”

“I know that one of the vendors chose to drop out because it wasn’t on a good technical glide path to achieve the requirements of the solicitation ― and the other one was affordability,” Venable added. “They didn’t think the investment required was going to result in a good chance to win.”

Leonardo DRS, the developer of the IM-SHORAD system, is among the original competitors for MCWS, along with General Dynamics Land Systems, Kollsman Inc., Raytheon, Pratt & Miller Engineering, and Fabrication Inc. The competitors were each given a Stryker and an XM813 cannon, but they must provide their own turret and fire control system.

The next stage for MCWS involves a series of tests, including a live-fire test and an armor test, with results due to an evaluation board in January."

That of course being 2021 if it stays on track.
https://www.armytimes.com/congress/2020/06/22/stryker-weapons-upgrades-face-scrutiny-under-house-proposal/

And again with the most updated timetable from Post #498
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/ea4ed8af-a2f7-474e-b02b-43d052efe123

I really don't know what more I can do or give you at this point.

But I have a long evening ahead of me later today and I'm tired so, GOOD Night or Morning where ever you are. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Karagin]

An issue with APCs/IFVs for the US, is the Army can't make it's mind up. They were supposed to have removed/replaces all of the 113s with Brads or Strykers, still hasn't happened. Then they were to have everything upgraded firepower wise, that still hasn't happened.

They are still looking at replacing the HMMMVV and MRAPs, or some mix of the two. Along with new trucks to replace the FMTV ones they have currently. It's almost as if they are back to the Inter-War years and trying to figure out what works and what Congress will pay for.

[Mobhack]

It's nice to know the Britih army is not alone with its faffing about and p*ssing money away on design stuties and mismanagement. We called it FRES...

[Karagin]

It's nice to know the Britih army is not alone with its faffing about and p*ssing money away on design stuties and mismanagement. We called it FRES...


We call it the MIC aka Military Industrial Complex...aka the contractors that will sell you a $400 toolset that on the civilian side runs about $200.

Right before I got out, we were supposed to get the new NVGs aka night vision, and we boxed up all of ours, only to find out that our battalion was not one of the selected to get the new stuff. Fun times...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright something positive, the USMC has approved, via the DOD of course, the fielding of the AVC/APC variant starting in Oct.2020.

So for my USMC buddy, I'm thinking it'll take about 9 months+ to fully equip and turn in their existing equipment. So I'm thinking JUN or OCT 2021 for FOC.

Your thoughts on the matter?
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_september_2020_global_security_army_i ndustry/us_marines_to_field_new_acv_amphibious_combat_vehi cle_apc_variant_in_october_2020.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

It says "US Marines to field new ACV Amphibious Combat Vehicle APC variant in October 2020"

and 10/120 is good enough for me

[Suhiir]

Alright something positive, the USMC has approved, via the DOD of course, the fielding of the AVC/APC variant starting in Oct.2020.

We currently have them available in July 2020 (I usually use a mid-year deployment if other info isn't available) so it was a pretty close guess.

I'll add this to my list of things to submit to Don for inclusion in the master files.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well the following provides another "piece of the puzzle" as to why the AJAX and WARRIOR CSP Programs have been delayed. German KMW and Frances NEXTAR are just "waiting in the wings" to offer the BOXER T-40 to replace the WARRIOR CSP and the latter to offer the JAGUAR for the troubled AJAX (The WARRIOR CSP is at this point in development proving to be much less "troublesome" in its development and testing.).

AJAX date change will be needed and I'm thinking NET DEC 2021. They are STILL at only 12 operational test beds, not good.

Will need to look more into the WARRIOR CSP (Designed to be operational through 2040.) which is an improved version of the WARRIOR 2000.

I've already posted on the AJAX problems even just recently.
https://www.army-technology.com/features/industry-blames-ct40-cannon-for-armoured-vehicle-delays/

The following are continuing "tidbits" concerning the UK's Defense Review...
https://www.army-technology.com/features/british-army-to-become-force-of-boots-and-bots-cgs/
https://www.army-technology.com/features/cds-uk-armed-forces-must-fundamentally-change/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_october_2020_global_security_army_ind ustry/russian_army_to_receive_bmp-2m_ifvs_by_late_2020.html

The Russian Army will receive upgraded BMP-2M infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) with a new Berezhok combat module armed with a 30mm gun and a Kornet (NATO reporting name: AT-14 Spriggan) antitank missile system, the Defense Ministry’s press office said.

The BMP-2M is an upgraded version of the BMP-2 IFV with the Berezhok combat module. The vehicle transports soldiers and increases their mobility, arms and protection on the battlefield. The Berezhok manned combat module is a turret with a new set of weapons. It has a combined sight with independent stabilization of the visor in two planes. It combines optical, thermal and laser range finders, as well as a missile guiding system.

The Berezhok is said to be a cost-effective update, which dramatically increases the firepower of the basic BMP-2 and leaves its protection almost untouched. he turret weighs about 3,250 kg and carries a heavy armament suite integrating a Gryasev-Shipunov 2A42 30 mm automatic cannon, an AGS-30M 30 mm automatic grenade launcher, a Kalashnikov PKTM 7.62 mm coaxial general-purpose machinegun, and four ready-use Kornet-E-family (NATO reporting name: AT-14 Spriggan) ATGMs in two two-cell banks mounted on either side of the turret.

The upgraded BMP-2 with the new arms exceeds the organic BMP-2 capabilities 3.8 times. Compared to the baseline BMP-2, the Berezhok is equipped with a far better sensor suite. The turret has received an automatic target tracker and a ballistic computer. According to KBP, the module fires up to two missiles in salvo mode in order to score higher hit probability. The Berezhok increases the capabilities of the BMP-2 IFV fourfold. The upgraded BMP-2M vehicle features a round-the-clock automatic fire control system for Kornet guided missiles to destroy heavily-armored targets at a distance of 8 km (5 mi), as well as air targets.

https://militaryleak.com/2020/04/30/russian-army-received-upgraded-60-bmp-2m-berezhok-infantry-fighting-vehicles/

On April 26, 2020, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported a planned delivery of 60 Berezhok-2M IFVs to the units of the Russian Army (Sukhoputniye Voyska). The Russian Army is set to receive more than 60 BMP-2M with the Berezhok combat module. In September 2017, the Russian Ministry of Defense and the Tula-based Instrument Design Bureau (KBP, a subsidiary of state corporation Rostec) signed a contract for the modernization of 540 BMP-2 IFVs airborne infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) to the Berezhok standard. The deliveries of the vehicles were launched in 2018-2019 and the Russian troops are now reported to have received some 30-40 BMP-2M Berezhok weapon systems.

The BMP-2M Berezhok station is the updated organic turret of the BMP-2, which carries a modernized armament suite. Compared to the baseline BMP-2, the Berezhok is equipped with a far better sensor suite. The turret has received an automatic target tracker and a ballistic computer. The upgraded combat module features a combined sight with an independent two-axis field-of-view stabilizer, a thermal imager, a laser rangefinder, and a control unit for anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs). The Berezhok is said to be a cost-effective update, which dramatically increases the firepower of the basic BMP-2 and leaves its protection almost untouched.

The Berezhok turret weighs up to 3,250 kg and carries a heavy armament suite integrating a 30 mm automatic cannon, an automatic grenade launcher, a coaxial general-purpose machinegun, and four ready-use ATGMs in two two-cell banks mounted on either side of the turret. The turret has received an automatic target tracker and a ballistic computer. The detection range for a tank-type target is up to 5,000 m, target identification at night using the thermal channel is possible at up to 3,000 m. The turret is also equipped with independent sights of commander and gunner, allowing them to work in ‘hunter-killer’ mode. The gunner`s sight has four channels: optical, thermal imaging, laser rangefinder and ATGM control channel.

The Gryasev-Shipunov 2A42 30 mm has ammunition load of 500 shells. AGS-30M 30 mm automatic grenade launcher can fire three types of grenades, namely, VOG-17M, VOG-30, GPD-30, being able to destroy personnel targets at the distances up to 1700-2100 m. Berezhok can fire five types of Kornet munitions, namely anti-tank tandem-warhead 9M133-1/9M133-2 and anti-personnel thermobaric 9M133F-1/9M133F-2/9M133F-3 missiles. The module has also received 30mm AG-30 automatic grenade launcher (AGL) and six 902B Tucha smoke grenade launchers. 2A42 gun can fire armor-piercing and high-explosive shells, being able to destroy targets at the distances up to 2000 m and 4000 m, respectively.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is many ways is an ongoing topic about a "controversial" topic however, this article clears up some of the ambiguity on what's really going on. It's a story of two countries, programs and paths taken. Also with a surprising revelation of who's getting the "Brass Ring" first for an FOC System.

I am speaking of UK & FRANCE/AJAX & SCORPIAN and the CT-40.

To save time I'm simply going to quote from the story...

Under Heading: CT40 Cannon: proven system or cause of delays?

"In recent evidence, given to theDefence Select Committee, General Dynamics Land Systems – UK and Lockheed Martin UK both laid some blame for delays to their programmes at the door of the CT40 cannon."

"In France, Nexter’s Jaguar, part of the country’s Scorpion land vehicles programme, uses the same weapon as AJAX and Warrior CSP. Jaguar was contracted in 2014 and is due to enter service at the end of this year."
(That is the surprise but "due" isn't the same "will". It just bears closer watching.)

"So, why have UK vehicles faced delays while France has progressed at speed?"

Under Heading: Same cannon, different subsystems

"The adoption of the full system is part of the reason that Nexter has had success with Jaguar, while the UK has faced delays."

"In the development of its turret for Warrior CSP, Lockheed Martin did not take all the components from CTA International, instead choosing to develop its own ammunition handling system that feeds from the side rather than the bottom of the weapon."

"Nexter added that as a direct result of these trials (2006 & 2008-Mine), the company chose to adopt the entire CT40 system, including all the components listed above. The French company said that Jaguar benefited from the trials by leveraging the risk reduction achieved by the 2006 and 2008 trials."

"In the development of its turret, Lockheed Martin told Army Technology that in order to ‘[achieve] required fire control system performance and safety’ the company chose to develop its own ‘integrated systems’ from UK suppliers. The company added that this allowed them to develop a modular system used on both AJAX and Warrior CSP."

At an oral evidence session of the UK Parliament’s Defence Select Committee, Francis Tusa Editor of Defence Analysis told MPs: “The problems we have had, in the UK, with the 40 millimetre cased telescoped ammo have not been replicated in France, where they have taken the system, all of it, as designed. It is now in full-scale production.

“They now have a turret that would fit if we wanted to, just for the sake of argument (Which the UK is getting.-Mine), put it on to a Boxer. It works absolutely fine. Yes, there have been problems along the way, without a shadow of a doubt, but it works. That is because they (France-Mine) had a much more coordinated approach to the development, design and then how they were going to put it into production.”

Under Heading: Problems along the way in the UK

To be sure as noted by Francis Tusa Editor of Defence Analysis above there were some minor technical issues with the CT-40, however they were all addressed by 2014. Again the French are well ahead of the UK in the total system as that's how they moved ahead, by keeping it all together, weapon and subsystems.

The first few paras deal with the "blame game" from the UK Manufactures Group on the CT-40, Contract issues and miscommunications, I leave these for the reader to discern.

Moving on...

In its evidence, General Dynamics also said that a ‘stable and defined build standard’ was not realised until the AJAX contract was recast in 2019.

Countering both companies’ evidence, the MOD told Army Technology: “Qualification of the weapon has continued in parallel with the development of the platforms. Whilst this did require some change and resultant schedule impact, the slippage due to CT40 was not a significant contributor to the delays in the development of the platforms themselves.

“The CT40 design was fixed for cannon production in March 2015 and the interface has not changed; in 2015 CT40 was sufficiently characterised for integration.”

"A source also told Army Technology that by 2019 cannon qualifications were done and added that during the development process Lockheed Martin made little effort to work with CTA International, instead preferring to work with the MOD on issues with the cannon as it is supplied as government furnished equipment (GFE)."

"Army Technology understands that the MOD mandated the cannon as AJAX and Warrior CSP’s main armament but did not mandate the weapons subsystems, hence Lockheed’s decision to develop its own."

Under Heading: What’s next for Warrior, AJAX and Jaguar?

"As it stands, all three (Really 4 I have found a couple of articles suggesting the German BOXER T40 has been fully tested, as like the French, they bought the complete system.-Mine) vehicles featuring the CT40 cannon have largely ironed out development issues and are making good progress. Lockheed Martin expects a production contract to be signed for Warrior CSP next year, General Dynamics has finished production of 60 AJAX (12 are in OPEVAL with an active unit.-Mine vehicles, and Jaguar is slated for deliveries late this year."

"Nexter for its part is offering the MOD a Boxer MIV module fitted with the turret used on its Jaguar vehicle. The system dubbed Boxer T40 would fill a requirement for direct fire capability for the British Army’s planned STRIKE Brigades (This could kill WARRIOR CSP.-Mine).

"A question mark has been placed over the Warrior CSP programme, with one source telling Army Technology that the vehicle is in the most doubt as the UK looks to reassess its forces in an upcoming integrated review of defence security and foreign policy. Earlier this year it was reported by the Times that the UK was assessing options to axe its entire fleet of Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) and IFVs."

And I'm leaving it there that Defense Review is putting CHALLENGER 2 (And upgrade.), AJAX and finally WARRIOR CSP in doubt.

So CHALLENGER 2is in service. AJAX is in OPEVAL, WARRIOR CSP still in finishing touches of development and JAGUAR becoming operational by mid+ - 2021 I'm thinking.

The "wildcard" will be the BOXER T40 which I feel could contribute to the end of both AJAX and WARRIOR CSP. The other driver not mentioned is ARIES which if I read it correctly, in one of my most recent refs, is about to start production and will have a RECON version as well.

I also see another path for AJAX in that MOD does buy the 60 units as noted above and ends the production run there.

We definitely know one thing for sure though and that is AJAX will need a new START, if we allow for a quick with no further issues during the OPEVAL, then I recommend JAN 2022 (Maybe, as I see a smaller path to it OCT 2021) to include an increase in TI/GSR to Min 45/Max50 as well.

I don't know what more I can add to this except from my folder of refs that covers segments or more of this full article.
https://www.army-technology.com/features/ct40-cannon-proven-system-or-cause-of-delays/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

Some more diving into the Japanese OBAT:

Units 094 (Type 89) and 095 (Type 89 Kai) may have incorrect Weapon #2.

Currently, both have Weapon 158 (Chu-MAT ATGM) as Weapon #2.

In all the sources I can find for the Type 89 IFV:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Type_89_IFV
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/89%E5%BC%8F%E8%A3%85%E7%94%B2%E6%88%A6%E9%97%98%E8 %BB%8A

It is described as having the Type 79 Jyu-MAT ATGM, which is already in the Japanese OBAT as Weapon 157 (Jyu-MAT ATGM).

I decided to take a deep dive into Japanese ATGMs since I was already looking at stuff:

Sources:
http://www.designation-systems.net/non-us/japan.html
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/64%E5%BC%8F%E5%AF%BE%E6%88%A6%E8%BB%8A%E8%AA%98%E5 %B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/79%E5%BC%8F%E5%AF%BE%E8%88%9F%E8%89%87%E5%AF%BE%E6 %88%A6%E8%BB%8A%E8%AA%98%E5%B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/87%E5%BC%8F%E5%AF%BE%E6%88%A6%E8%BB%8A%E8%AA%98%E5 %B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/96%E5%BC%8F%E5%A4%9A%E7%9B%AE%E7%9A%84%E8%AA%98%E5 %B0%8E%E5%BC%BE%E3%82%B7%E3%82%B9%E3%83%86%E3%83%A 0
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%B8%AD%E8%B7%9D%E9%9B%A2%E5%A4%9A%E7%9B%AE%E7%9 A%84%E8%AA%98%E5%B0%8E%E5%BC%BE
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/01%E5%BC%8F%E8%BB%BD%E5%AF%BE%E6%88%A6%E8%BB%8A%E8 %AA%98%E5%B0%8E%E5%BC%BE

Random Japanese Trivia
Normally, the Acronym for ATGM should be Anti Tank Missile (ATM), but due to social unrest in the 1960s in Japan, since the JGSDF was just getting started, in order to avoid a mistake like ATM = Atom in public perception, the JGSDF decided to call their ATGMs as MAT = Missile Anti Tank.

Type 64 MAT / ATM-1 / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-3
There were two versions, ATM-1 and ATM-1B. The -1B version had a lengthened warhead section to increase penetration power, but the missile length remained the same. This was a wired MCLOS missile flying very slowly at 85 m/sec.

Type 79 Jyu-MAT / ATM-2 / Jyu = Heavy / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-9
Basically, it is very similar to BGM-71 TOW, and is in the same role (Heavy MAT / 通称重MAT) but with Japanese operational needs taken into mind, such as having a anti-landing craft mode. Wired SACLOS at 200 m/sec flight speed.

Type 87 Chu-MAT / ATM-3 / Chu = Medium / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-40
This is in the Middle MAT (中MAT) role, and it was designed to replace the Type 64 MAT for infantry units. Is a Semi Active Laser Homer, with 250 m/sec flight speed.

Type 96 MPMS / ATM-4 / Internal Kawasaki Designation KAM-20
This was designed to replace both the Type 87 Medium MAT and Type 79 Heavy MAT in either role; but ended up being in a completely new category as the first Fiber Optic Wire Guided Missile in service in the West. As before, it includes the usual Japanese "anti-landing craft" mode. Due to the extreme cost of the Type 96 MPMS, only a few were procured.

Type 01 LMAT / ATM-5
Designed as successor for the 84mm Carl Gustaf M2 as an infantry AT weapon. It's an IR homer which contains the first uncooled IR sensor in a ATGM. It's basically like the Javelin and Spike, but Japanese.

MMPM / XATM-6 / Shin-Chu-MAT / Shin = New; so the name means New Medium ATM
This is a IR homer / Semi Active Laser Homer with some technology taken from the Type 01 Light MAT. It was first funded in the 2009 budget, and the first infantry units began to receive them in 2011.

84mm Recoilless Rifle (B) / Carl Gustaf M3
Procurement began in the 2012 budget, with preferential deployment to the Amphibious Rapid Deployment Brigade followed by the 1st Airborne Brigade. In order to distinguish it from the earlier 84mm Recoilless Rifle (Carl Gustaf M2) procured by the JGSDF, the (B) was appended to the name. Unlike the earlier M2, the M3 will not be purely anti-armor, but a multipurpose weapon.

Random Note
In Japanese Service, the Panzerfaust 3 (Weapon 032 in Japanese OBAT), is named LAM = Light-Weight Anti Tank munition).

[MarkSheppard]

So Japanese APCs:

Sources
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/60%E5%BC%8F%E8%A3%85%E7%94%B2%E8%BB%8A
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_60_Armoured_Personnel_Carrier
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/73%E5%BC%8F%E8%A3%85%E7%94%B2%E8%BB%8A
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAV7#%E9%81%8B%E7%94%A8%E5%9B%BD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_Amphibious_Vehicle

Miscellaneous notes
For Japanese IFVs/APCs/Tanks, the most modern stuff is always deployed to Hokkaido to act as deterrence against Soviet operations from the Kuriles.

Type 60 APC
Because only 338 x Type 73 APCs were built, compared to 430~ Type 60 APCs, the Type 60 continued on until the 2000s, with the following numbers being recorded:

1998: 303 in service
2005: 33 in service
2006: None in Service

From the later part of the 1980s, when Type 60s came into the repair shops, they slowly replaced the front bow machine gun from the original 7.62mm M1919 MMG to the 7.62mm Type 74 MMG (Japanese Weapon #069).

AAV7 Family

In 2013, the JGSDF bought four AAVP7's for reference and testing, followed by orders for 54 more in 2016, for a total of 58 AAVP7s, broken down as:

6 x Command Vehicles (AAVC7A1 RAM / RS)
6 x Recovery Vehicles (AAVR7A1 RAM / RS)
46 x APC Vehicles (AAVC7A1 RAM / RS)

Deliveries took place in mid to late 2017 and in March 2018, the new Amphibious Rapid Deployment Brigade was formed.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Status:

UK: AJAX
https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2020/10/12/british-army-admits-more-delays-in-fielding-enough-combat-forces/
The first of 589 Ajax vehicles have been delivered (Not true, that is the number to ordered.) to the Army here and full operating capability is set for 2025.

Keep in mind the above and others I've already posted concerning FOC. I'm providing the next for "contrast" to demonstrate how fast equipment dates can change and why Don and I can only do the following. Not for how it's intended here but, as to its otherwise visual impact-:doh:

This article was from the beginning of this year, again as a reminder IOC hasn't been achieved let alone by this past July as per this ref.

But say it was (IOC) just for "S*its and Giggles", I quote the last para...
"However, whatever the doomsters predict, Ajax is late but will enter service to give the British Army a highly advanced digitised vehicle fleet capable of meeting today’s threats on the battlefield in the 2024 timeframe following the completion of the demonstration phase in 2021."
https://battle-updates.com/gdls-gives-ajax-update-at-iav-by-julian-nettlefold/

Of course the manufacturer has to put a positive spin on things!!!! :rolleyes:

Gotta walk!!!

Real quick Australian BOXER in Manufacturer trials that started in mid Oct 2020. Army also just started training with the handful they have. Refs later!!

Getting Dark!!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

First clear shots of new NORINCO VN-1 (aka Type 08) 8x8 in Thai service during an exercise. Previously, all we saw of them were on trains with the turrets covered.

From a Thai Facebook page:

Armed 30 mm automatic cannon, 7.62 mm co-axle gun, 40 mm automatic grenade launcher, 76 mm smoke grenade launcher, all controlled from inside the vehicle.

....

In addition to all the weapons mentioned above It can also be equipped with 3 additional Red Arrow 73D missile weapons.

But looks like the initial Thai buy is just cannon/MG/AGL, not any ATGM options...

https://i.imgur.com/N0wTlVR.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YbTiFHU.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0GwRB3a.jpg

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is the first thing I've seen for the AJAX this year, I believe. And at this time, supports for now the revised date I've already submitted.

I see a larger potential to see this moving to the "right" then moving to the "left" or staying in the "center" as far as dates are concerned for the overall status of the AJAX Program as a whole.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_february_2021_global_security_army_in dustry/ajax_live_firing_tests_conducted_with_british_army _crews_ahead_of_serial_delivery.html

UK Defense Review likely to be pushed back again. COVID and other Economic factors (BREXIT) coming into play.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

AAV7 Family

In 2013, the JGSDF bought four AAVP7's for reference and testing, followed by orders for 54 more in 2016, for a total of 58 AAVP7s, broken down as:

6 x Command Vehicles (AAVC7A1 RAM / RS)
6 x Recovery Vehicles (AAVR7A1 RAM / RS)
46 x APC Vehicles (AAVC7A1 RAM / RS)

Deliveries took place in mid to late 2017 and in March 2018, the new Amphibious Rapid Deployment Brigade was formed.
The AAVR7A1 (and similar vehicles) are not modeled in WinSPMBT as they're basically tow trucks/mobile light repair shops.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

AUSTRALIA:
I can see where someone (Not Don.) "will get ahead of themselves" on the following, well don't do it, because of the following quoted from the source...
"According to a statement published by the Australian Department of Defence on February 13, 2021, Hanwha Defense Australia and Rheinmetall Defence Australia have each delivered three prototype vehicles – two for test and evaluation activities and one for blast testing – as part of the two-year Risk Mitigation Activity."

It is possible we can see one or the other by the beginning or middle part of 2024.

What they are meant to replace, though it'll still be around at games end.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/australia_australian_army_light_armoured_vehicle_u k/m113as4_apc_light_tracked_armored_vehicle_personne l_carrier_data.html

Who was down selected as the finalists in the Land 400 Phase 3 Program.

Lynx KF41:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/germany_german_army_light_armoured_vehicle_uk/kf41_lynx_ifv_infantry_fighting_vehicle_tracked_ar mored_data.html
http://www.military-today.com/apc/lynx_ifv.htm

and...

Redback AS21:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2019_global_defense_security_army_news_ind ustry/hanwha_defense_as21_redback_tracked_armored_ifv_un veiled_at_adex_2019.html
http://www.military-today.com/apc/nifv.htm
(Modified version of the KF-21

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The UK Defense Review must be coming close based on the next. Read this closely and you'll see there's discussion of possible contract
renegotiations to drive costs down, see Paras 5 & 6.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/lockheed-martin-uk-worries-that-warrior-upgrade-could-be-threatened-by-defence-cuts

Still under the weather, though the weather has gotten better!?! :sick:/:D

ZZzzz's! :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[luigim]

About this

https://twitter.com/pmakela1/status/1380938876961820674

Here we can see MT-LBM 6MB (with 30mm autocannon) in Russian service

canceled from this game long time ago



This post was moved from the MBT thread to the APC thread

[DRG]

About this...

https://twitter.com/pmakela1/status/1380938876961820674

Here we can see MT-LBM 6MB (with 30mm autocannon) in Russian service

canceled from this game long time ago




The MT-LBM-6MB was first added to the V4.5 OOB's in 2009 and in 2014 it was removed ( Ver 8 Unit 801)

So far I found the post that suggested it be put in....

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=34140

And the post that had them removed...

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=822740&highlight=MT-LBM-6MB#post822740 Post 129

Specifically, OBAT11 numbers 213 (MT-LBM-6M1A3), 332 (MT-LBM-6M1B2), 800 (MT-LBM-6MA), 801 (MT-LBM-6MB), and for that matter 872 (MT-LBM). To the best of my knowledge, these vehicles showed up once at an arms expo, and were promptly never heard from again. I find no reports of any of the MT-LB modifications actually coming into service.


But of course, we just saw a trainload go by so I guess that info we were provided was at least partially wrong, wasn't it ??

Of those Unit numbers listed missing now are:

213 (MT-LBM-6M1A3)
332 (MT-LBM-6M1B2) ( now Kurganets 25 )
800 (MT-LBM-6MA)
801 (MT-LBM-6MB)

872 is now the MT-LBVM


It is too late to get them back in for this release but if I get confirmation info that 213, 332 do or don't exist I will (or won't...) get them back in as well for whenever the next update is released and this time they only get put back in with solid source info but I have added 800 and 801 back into my working OOB's with updated photos and they will get much more correct Icons for the 14.5mm and 30mm versions but right now after a bit of digging it would appear that all of that "remove" info was wrong

These two posts have been moved from the MBT thread to the APC thread

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
In the interest of saving you time and aggravation of which I'm sure I'll provide you plenty of in the coming year, I've conducted a search from the following Russian Websites plus the 12 or so of my "normal" go to websites. These of course are concerning the Russian UNITS 213 (MT-LBM-6M1A3) 332 (MT-LBM-6M1B2) (now Kurganets 25) (YOU WON'T HAVE TO MOVE THIS NOW.)

First from my vehicle nomenclature initial search...
2008
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38709&page=2
(As you posted.)

And
https://issuu.com/www.azeridefence.com/docs/azeri_defence_23/43
(Article from May 2016)

ZERO RESULTS RUSSIAN SEARCH FOR BOTH UNITS FROM...
http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country.htm
http://roe.ru/eng/
https://sputniknews.com/
http://mil.today/Russia/
https://tass.com/military-defense
https://www.rt.com/news/

MINE, SAME RESULTS...
https://www.janes.com/
https://www.defence24.com/
https://www.defenceweb.co.za/
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense
(Just because I can.) ;)
https://www.ajaishukla.com/
(BROADSWORD remade, improved the site.)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/
(Takes delivery NOT inducts for you wandering eye folks.)
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/
https://weaponsystems.net/
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/
http://www.military-today.com
https://www.milmag.eu/
http://www.dod.mil.za/SitePages/Home.aspx
(OK!, OK!, THIS ONE WAS OVERKILL.)

Now based on what I found from searching EVERY source above, that the other 2 UNITS 800 (MT-LBM-6MA) 801 (MT-LBM-6MB), DON'T EXIST ETHIER.

This being a somewhat "time consuming" exercise was worth IT to me to "DRIVE HOME A POINT" of which I dare say only those out here who at least know my methods, would fully understand if not appreciate. ;)

I will conduct the a "deeper" search of those other 2 UNITS, later, but you'll excuse me if I don't renter my refs again. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[luigim]

Ok, but MTLB 6MB with 30mm autocannon can clearly be seen onto the train.

[DRG]

....What Luigim said.......

and
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/USSR/MT-LB.php

MT-LBM (izdeliye 6M) Russian IFV, 30 mm autocannon

AND.....
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16388&stc=1&d=1618172501

That is a tracked carrier with a turret and a long autocannon and 6 road wheels.

An MT-LB has 6 road wheels that look just like those road wheels
http://militarytechnics.com/files/9615/9914/4157/MTLB.jpg

as does those things whizzing by on the flatcars.

If you know of another Russian tracked carrier with 6 roadwheels and a big assed turret with a long autocannon near the middle back end I'm interested to hear what it is. A bmp has 6 but not quite like those but MAYBE what were seeing is a new BMP variant. The BTR-82A has a turret sort of similar but it's more forward on the hull and has tires

MAYBE it's all maskirovka , They only have a few protos but move them about on trains to impress people...:re: but what went by on those flatcars looks a lot like....

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16455&stc=1&d=1622896139

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The previous to the below, I based that on the search parameters for the first two types, which is why I ended that post with the following...

"I will conduct the a "deeper" search of those other 2 UNITS, later, but you'll excuse me if I don't renter my refs again."

Which means I'm keeping an "open mind" to all possibilities.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright, UNIT 800 MT-LBM (6M) is good. My first ref. lists a whole Sxxt -ton of variants with one to check the MT-LBVM which mounted a turreted 12.7mm NSVT HMG. It was a further upgrade to the MT-LBV that had wider tracks mounted, ref 1 claims 565mm wider tracks.
https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=17
https://www.defencetalk.com/military/photos/mt-lbm-6mb.44879/
(Was assigned to the MT-LBM 6MB 34th Mountain Motor-Rifles Brigade)
Notice slight variation in designation for this unit. We get this a lot out here at times, which can be vexing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBG7qWa1xeM
(Apparently posted just yesterday!)

Seen plenty of pictures and other refs I found independently, which is how I work, If there's others, it supports what has already been presented.

Insight: a MAJOR part of responsibilities @ CSG-10 OPCON was to ensure that no operational message concerning our boats or when "exercised" any boats in the big eastern ocean had errors in them, before being released to the recipients by those above me. Only one way that can be accomplished and I used that word above. Any unexpected "bump in the night" several hundred feet underwater is never a good thing. People can die.

A little something I've held onto from the last time there were questions about Subs. Before you read the first one, we did I the 4 boats I was on, we had the common decency to at least wait a couple of days on one point of discussion and it happened on a more "individual basis" if you will. The rest is pretty much "spot on" and you never pulled open someone's bunk curtain. Your "bunk" is sacra cent and the berthing area was a "holy place". We slept but, listened for the unusual noises and alarms at the same time. And yes we rested.
https://taskandpurpose.com/mandatory-fun/life-submarine-raunchy-cramped-occasionally-smells-like-sht/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/submarinebubblehead/
(In full disclosure, I'm not a member. Click on "Read More", Do I agree with it, well some of you will already know the answer to that.) :D

A little "on edge" maybe due some anxiety CINCLANTHOME was having earlier today-tomorrow is shot day for you know what. I'm waiting on the J&J myself since we got a plane to catch this summer for the GD's H.S. Graduation in whatever form that'll take.

That leaves one more I think and it can wait until, maybe tomorrow.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

Bubbleheads are a unique group.
And as a group they're some of the most reliable people you'll ever meet. They do any task they're given fast and right. Attention to detail quite literally is a life and death matter for them.

[Imp]

Just a thought backed up by Pats "(Was assigned to the MT-LBM 6MB 34th Mountain Motor-Rifles Brigade)" & "MT-LBV that had wider tracks mounted, ref 1 claims 565mm wider tracks."

What is the terrain like where the fighting is taking place I seem to remember they have very low ground pressure so if its rough going that's another confirmation that they are MT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

John,
Here's the Photo Album starting with a great shot of the MT-LBM 6A
to start it off. than MT-LB followed by the MT-VBM, scroll to the comments section for the picture description..

Looking at the terrain at their driving facility for 34th Mountain, the steppes of Russia, UKRAINE and or POLAND with their lakes and swamps of Eastern, Northern (On the Russian "extension" border.) and pretty much all of Western Poland "the gateway" to Germany. It's an AMPHIP as well and wider tracks in those types of terrain as you know, would be nothing but a huge advantage for a vehicle of it's size. The pictures certainly demonstrate that clearly to my mind.
https://www.defencetalk.com/military/photos/mt-lbm-6m.47299/

CINCLANTHOME is fine, no reaction, just a sore arm which like most anti virus shots, go into the muscle.

Suhiir, thank you for the kind words as your career to some extent would've given you some insight to my world.

Some people can't get beyond the "why would you want to do that", my answer simply is because at the start of WWII, that's all we had to take the fight to the Japanese after Pearl Harbor.
I'm definitely a student of history.
https://www.defense.gov/Explore/Features/Story/Article/2114035/submarine-warfare-played-major-role-in-world-war-ii-victory/

OK! The Submarine Hazardous Duty pay was pretty good too!! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[scorpio_rocks]

Anyone else think the new "overwatch" (a beefed up Striker) seems like too little too late for the British army (in service 2030!?!) ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ4eNDNY1Zc

Shouldn't it be on a boxer hull and isn't Spike NLOS / "Exactor" a better bet?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Australia LAND 400 UPDATE:

STATUS: Still in coordinated Manufacturers Trials w/Army.

Australian Army receives first 25 LANCER BOXER's. DON'T GET TOO EXCITED.

QOUTE: "Delivery of the first 25 vehicles enables Army to continue towards Initial Operating Capability on schedule as Rheinmetall moves into the next phase of the LAND 400 Phase 2 program."

If the HAWKIE Program is an indication on how the evaluation process will go, we're looking at 2-3 years for FOC earliest.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2021_global_security_army_indust ry/australian_army_receives_first_25_rheinmetall_boxe r_combat_reconnaissance_vehicles.html

Gotta Go!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well another update I saw coming but, wish it wouldn't have happened to a program that's ALREADY 4 YEARS BEHIND schedule. I speak of AJAX and quite frankly this is nothing less than embarrassing especially in blaming France for the UK problems with their CITW 40mm when it was the UK that deviated from the loading system design. That I posted on earlier this year in this thread and now again this issue has popped up...
https://www.army-technology.com/news/uk-mod-ajax-tank-trials-paused-safety-risks/
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/ministry-of-defence-army-the-daily-telegraph-mod-ajax-b938510.html

IOC in 2021 well in my opinion, good luck with that!?!

I've got a beautiful bridge in NYC I'm selling called the "Brooklyn Bridge" for anyone interested!?!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Mobhack]

British procurement "strategy" in the last few decades has been utterly and totally abysmal. You would think it was a script from "Yes Minister" but unfortunately it is actuality, not a comedy show. Oh - perhaps it is meant to be a comedy show!:doh:

[DRG]

Not being able to go faster than 20MPH is a problem as is not being able to back up over an 8 inch "obstacle"

[cbreedon]

Is this vehicle modeled in the German OOB? It's called the Mungo. I didn't see it unless it's called something else in game terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mungo_ESK

[Imp]

Not being able to go faster than 20MPH is a problem as is not being able to back up over an 8 inch "obstacle"

How does something like that only come to light now, its staggering.

[DRG]

Is this vehicle modeled in the German OOB? It's called the Mungo. I didn't see it unless it's called something else in game terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mungo_ESK


What is similar and ( sort of .....) serves the same purpose is the Rheinmetall Yak U323 look for MRAV APC in Misc starting 2006

https://www.bundeswehr.de/de/ausruestung-technik-bundeswehr/landsysteme-bundeswehr/duro3-yak

calls it the Duro 3 Yak

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

UPDATE: UK BOXER

STATUS: Preparatory to construction of first PROTOTYPES.

WHEN: Late 2022. First type will be the Mechanized Infantry Version (MIV) coming from Germany. This will be the precursor of a follow on order for 500 BOXER's in if I remember 4 variants.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2021_global_security_army_indust ry/british_army_boxer_miv_series_production_starts_ac cording_to_rheinmetall_plan.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

UPDATE: French JAGUAR

Status: French Army has just begun their evaluation of the JAGUAR. The evaluation is being conducted by STAT (Section Technique de l’Armée de Terre, Technical Section of the Ground Force).

Analysis: It appears the "manufacturers" testing is now complete or winding down. No further timeline is given. I'm thinking this phase will last about a year. At the end of this it'll go back to NEXTER to make any fixes or modifications the French Army identifies.

At that point we can discuss IOC-MAYBE. I don't believe it's intended to reach FOC much before mid-2023 or first half of 2024.

The pictures are worth the "price of admission" especially the first inside turret view and the "slat armor" which makes me wonder, is the armor protection not as good as thought!?! These are the first pictures I've seen of the JAGUAR running around with that attached.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2021_global_security_army_indust ry/french_army_starts_evaluation_of_jaguar_ebrc_armor ed_reconnassance_vehicle.html

UPDATE for UK AJAX. There's "A whole lotta shaken goin on here!!",
this from the 9th...
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-mod-calls-in-experts-to-assess-serious-ajax-issues

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[blazejos]

Borsuk APC

Poland nearly finishing tests of new domestic APC [Badger] build by HSW which will be replacement for old BWP-1. As for now three prototypes are build and last was tested during exercises Dragon-21. Borsuk will have new local build turret unmanned ZSSW-30 which is also projected to be used on Rosomak APC equipped in 30mm Mk44S Bushmaster II chain gun, 7.62mm UKM-2000C coaxial machine gun and Spike ATGM launcher in box on right side.
Rosomak with ZSSW030
https://i.imgur.com/Es7B8Qh.jpg

Borsuk is indeed to be introduced in year 2023/2024 to army and manufactured by Huta Stalowa Wola HSW.

https://www.defence24.pl/upload/2021-06-10/quhs3l_Borsukreszczynski1.jpg

link to some photos
https://www.defence24.pl/borsuk-na-dragonie-21

English language video about this vehicle and intended versions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oRGvTvHHw8&feature=emb_imp_woyt

Nice video showing Borsuk in movment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=65&v=WI64pGCo2Pg&feature=emb_logo

Here ZSSW-30 on Rosomak firing Spikes from tower
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRedOnY24pk

[blazejos]

Belorussia arms industry is a little forgotten inside game because the haven't their own OOB but they have capable industry and creating their own equipment different from Russian sources for their own domestic usage and export markets.

Here new Belarusian IFV Volat V2 APC (MZKT-690003) intended sucessor of BMP1/2 based on BTR-80
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sd_pK7nd33w/YNNky58gktI/AAAAAAABWe8/LwlHH6KVHV4EonaScb38fGVJoc8Y5w5JgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h360/374040.jpg

and here source and more photos
https://thedeaddistrict.blogspot.com/

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Aright this is about USA UNIT 339 AMPV I recommend a revised START date of JUN 2023 vice current JAN 2022..

Issues...
1. Production line tooling issues.

2. Other technical testing and equipment issues.

3. Budget cut recommendations (Enacted.) from the Army and Congress to support funding for other modernization programs.

4. Production delays due to COVID-19. Since we're now "officially" in the 4th wave, possible further delay possible. However, I'm NOT basing my recommendation on "possible", it's based on trends and factual data at this time.

OVERVIEW: Project started in 2014. The Army was expected to have ~258 Units by 2020.. As of this month the Army has around 35 Units in testing NOW!

Current Testing from 23 July 2021...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2021_global_security_army_indust ry/new_ampv_armored_multi-purpose_vehicle_for_us_army_undergoes_rigorous_fie ld_testing.html

First article w/ Overview and first of delays discussed from 04 November 2020....
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-armored-multi-purpose-vehicle-ampv-fielding/

Current article discusses contract approved to modify spare parts, if your modifying that means what you have doesn't work!!

I quote from the next dated 16 May 2021.
"The work, which is is expected to be complete in Jan. 2023, will be performed in York, Pennsylvania, where BAE Systems builds the armored vehicles and its modernized howitzers."

"The first fielding for AMPV is projected in the second quarter of FY23 (That means No Sooner THEN JAN - APR 2023, roughly a year after the start of the IOT&E, according to the Army’s Program Executive Office for Ground Combat Systems (PEO GCS)."

I believe JUNE 2023 to be a much "safer" START date.
https://defence-blog.com/new-deal-moves-u-s-armys-newest-tracked-vehicle-closer-to-initial-fielding/

I read "my papers" and this is how the POOP begins!?! :rolleyes:

BEDTIME!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

UPDATES:

UK: AJAX. Things aren't looking very "rosy" at this point and again, another article saying possibly the whole program is in jeopardy. From my ref...
“I describe Ajax as a troubled programme. I wish it wasn't, but it is,” Minister for Defence Procurement Jeremy Quin said. “It requires a lot of work from ourselves and our industry partners to get ourselves back on track. We can't be 100% certain that can be achieved.”

AJAX will not reach IOC until this issue is resolved.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/uk-mod-and-gduk-give-update-on-troubled-ajax-programme_19116

USA: OMFV (Optionally Manned Fighting Vehicle). The USA has chosen the 5 teams that will move onto the Design Phase for the OMFV. This part of the development will
will last 15 months to completion before the next phase starts somewhere around the beginning of 2023.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/five-teams-win-initial-us-army-omfv-design-contracts

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I was actually looking into something that was in no way related to the following. All the Threads I started have matching folders on my PC. However for some reason it didn't make it into the folder, were I to guess, I probably came across this just before having to get ready for work.

Anyway...
UK: AJAX UPDATE: You'll all love this, apparently MOD knew about the vibration issue on AJAX since 2017!!!

Well obviously they run a secure operation, that is until they go before the Parliament anyway!?! :rolleyes:
https://www.army-technology.com/features/ajax-vibration-issues-reported-in-2019/
https://twitter.com/FTusa284/status/1405089340196278274
(This as "clicked" on where above underlined "2017".)

Note: The above article also notes the vibration caused stabilization issues for the FCS & 40mm, well no poop!! The point is this is an added issue to what I've already posted about the gun design and loading equipment modifications that the UK decided to make.

Again this is why the French will field the JAGUAR with the same weapons system without modification well before UK gets to IOC or FOC, if ever as posted in my last.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well it just works out that will be a continuation of my last Post.

National Audit Office (NAO) which is a "Watchdog" organization for the government will be investigating, in effect, what's happened with the following programs; Ajax, Boxer, Challenger, and Warrior (CSV).

I quote from Ref.1, "this will enable us to draw out the systemic issues in the [Ministry of Defense's] management of these programmes."

The report is due for release on March 2022. That being said, it might be late Summer or Fall based on history concerning the SDR and other related programs.

This will no doubt further delay these programs.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/watchdog-to-investigate-uk-afv-programmes/
https://www.ft.com/content/a0fcb652-4d2e-4c50-a14e-f84c8d340ab4

I can't believe I've been tracking this for so long now, Contract signed 10yrs ago and the Army should've had these 4yrs ago.

Well ARJUN took 30 yrs, maybe the above isn't so bad afterall!?! :rolleyes:

This seems the appropriate thread concerning my close friend and co-worker Jake "ABRAMS and BRADLEY Driver Extraordinaire" who some of you might remember was of help to me in submitting updates to those platforms (Especially BRADLEY as he tested the driver and thermal optics systems for the M3 version.) a few years back.

He was a combat vet who served in Iraq with 14yrs of service in the Army.

I'm sad to say he passed from COVID-19 after 3wks in ICU on 2 Sept (Another close friend and co-worker lost his wife after 8wks in ICU the previous Sunday, also to COVID-19. It was a rough week for the "Team".). The Memorial Service was on Labor Day with him being interned at the Dallas Tx National Military Cemetery with Full Military Honors later that week.

I will miss him.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I have a couple of updates; one will require a change to its START
date and the next I believe if already taken for action, will require no change.

ISRAEL: The EITAN kind've made us "pull out our remaining hair" a little as Israel tends to be quiet about equipment details until they're fielded.

Based on the following ref. representing many reporting the same news, change...
ISRAEL/CHANGE/EITAN IFV/UNIT 071/START/10/2022 vice 03/2021//
ISRAEL/ADD/EITAN APC/START/10/2022/WEAPON 12.7mm RWS/USE UNIT 071 AS MODEL//
ISRAEL/ADD/EITAN APC/START/10/2022/WEAPON 40mm RWS/USE UNIT 071 AS MODEL//I believe this a "safe" early date, but JAN 2023 might be better. :dk:
ALL to have "IRON FIST". Investigating use of ATGM on EITAN IFV.
Reason for change, from ref. "Allison Transmission received the first production order in September 2021" concerning the transmissions for the EITAN. EITAN wasn't scheduled to be fielded until late/or end of 2021. This transmission order obviously won't support the in game or projected dates. We did the best we could with what information we had at the time. I should point out again, this is a joint U.S. and ISRAELI project.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_december_2021_global_security_army_in dustry/allison_to_provide_4000_series_automatic_transmiss ions_for_israeli_eitan_future_armored_fighting_veh icle.html
https://defense-update.com/20200209_eitan-3.html
(NOT NOW! But here for context.)

If I missed the APCs in the OOB my apologies.

UK: AJAX update again, I know I submitted a date change for around mid-2023, this latest from last month is making it look like that date is probably going to be closer than the current UNIT 602 SEP 2022 one. I'm going to post various quotes from this next ref.
First the title; obviously in time with the Bond movie release one would guess...
"Shaken and stirred: British Army’s Ajax troubles cast a long shadow" and that's the lighter side of the rest. This article as others I've recently posted still casts a very dire possibility it can still be cancelled. They are still being produced at this time.

"Twenty-five vehicles were delivered to the British Army by June 2021 but have yet to be accepted into service due to a number of issues related to noise and vibration."

"The problems with noise and vibration have pitched Ajax at the centre of a controversy here, with some issue experts comparing the procurement with the decision to cancel the Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft in 2010."
The NIMROD cancellation caused quite a stir at the time.

Ajax vehicles should have been in service by now, but Quin (Procurement Minister. Mine) told Parliament recently that until a long-term solution was found it was “not possible to determine a realistic timescale for declaration of initial operating capability or the later introduction of Ajax vehicles into operational service with the Army. ”

This issue was brought up in the forum. We might never get the true numbers of personnel involved the below does "frame it" somewhat.
"Several hundred personnel have had to undergo possible hearing and vibration injury tests related to the Ajax trials."

ARES now involved as well.
"Following the authorization of an MoD safety panel, a second ARES armored personnel carrier variant of the Ajax is being added to the small fleet of vehicles now gathering data in an effort to resolve the problems."

"The current trials only relate to the noise and vibration issues, and broader testing of the vehicle remains on hold. "

So, no IOC or FOC yet this applies to ARES as well.

To the reader you would do well to read the article in full.
https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/feindef/2021/11/03/shaken-and-stirred-british-armys-ajax-troubles-cast-a-long-shadow/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

UPDATE @ 2037 concerning AJAX. From JANE'S those affected and treated for hearing and vibration medical issues is at 310 soldiers and were not acted upon by the British Army. That from an MOD Minister to Parliament. Things are to get nasty.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/land-forces/latest/safety-warnings-on-ajax-were-not-acted-upon-uk-mod-says

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
To finish up on Israeli EITAN:
1. What I forgot ... The APC version also has a Pintal Mount MG 7.62mm for the Commander. It's mounted forward of the RWS on the right side.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/eitan_l1.jpg

2. ATGW ...
It's the SPIKE MR, as I remember this has a larger warhead on it than the standard SPIKE. I can't remember if the only difference with the SPIKE LR is just the range.

3. One of the "unknowns" at the time, armor...
Frontal Arc protection "up and including" against 30mm AP.

The rest "up to and including" against 14.5mm AP.

The above values reflect the protection straight from the factory w/o add on protection. It from the start was considered the best protected APC in the world.

4. Also I found that the 30mm w/coaxial 7.62mm, is capable of extremely high elevation to attack skyscrapers in urban combat from lessons learned. Obviously, that being said, it'd be highly effective against helicopters as well.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/eitan.htm

I gotta get to bed-had a long day.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

FULLY REFITTED/PAINTED and UPARMORED BUSHMASTERS (First 20) in the air NOW!

Australia continuing support of Ukraine. They asked for them now they're getting them.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-sends-bushmaster-military-vehicles-to-ukraine/ar-AAVZ1TO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=6bc261766b5a4ecabb41c629a2a61abf

Someone needs to get in the shower NOW

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

...And the UK is sending Mastiff PPV to Ukraine


https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-sending-mastiff-armoured-vehicles-to-ukraine/

It's rare (GIANT UNDERSTATEMENT) to have an OOB that nobody paid much attention to be updated with new weapons and equipment on a daily basis

[DRG]

FULLY REFITTED/PAINTED and UPARMORED BUSHMASTERS (First 20) in the air NOW!

Australia continuing support of Ukraine. They asked for them now they're getting them.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-sends-bushmaster-military-vehicles-to-ukraine/ar-AAVZ1TO?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=6bc261766b5a4ecabb41c629a2a61abf

Someone needs to get in the shower NOW

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Well....... I already have them in for April so "close enough"

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Concur-all.

Been playing Ukraine for a lot of years now since even before OPLOT-M submission but, nothing like a "hot war" to get people's attention.

MASTIFF PPV now there's a beast, also I like those BUSHMASTERs.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This confirms a "back room" discussion on which M113 the Ukraine is getting from the U.S.

Even though unlikely it was considered a possibility we could be sending them the M113A2.

The matter was looked into further and it became much clearer that it would be the M113A3. The ref now validates that choice.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2022_global_security_army_indus try/us_ohio_national_guard_to_provide_m113_tracked_arm ored_personnel_carrier_vehicles_to_ukraine.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I gave Ukraine M113A3 Slat ( US OOB 605 but with a new photo without the palm trees in the background)........ it probably is more likey its not going to have slat but Ukraine is already putting slat on some of it's BMP's and when dealing with sketchy incomplete info this is what happens. If it turns out not to have slat then those that feel that should be changed can learn to use MOBHack and sketchy incomplete info is why I gave them M198 155's

[zovs66]

I have not checked yet, but I watched a video where the Russian build BMD-4 (2015-2016) have a licensed French laser ranger finger and thermal imaging on them.

https://youtu.be/7FPgEIrMG7M

[Karagin]

I gave Ukraine M113A3 Slat ( US OOB 605 but with a new photo without the palm trees in the background)........ it probably is more likey its not going to have slat but Ukraine is already putting slat on some of it's BMP's and when dealing with sketchy incomplete info this is what happens. If it turns out not to have slat then those that feel that should be changed can learn to use MOBHack and sketchy incomplete info is why I gave them M198 155's

Hey sketchy incomplete info is how the military rolls, by the time we get the full picture with all the details it's already out of date info. It's the nature of the game so to speak with military technology and who has what gaem.

[DRG]

..and sketchy incomplete info right now is saying Canada is going to send M777...... which is not beyond the realm of possibilities with the chuckleheads we have running the show right now.

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/canada-news-pmn/liberals-name-putins-two-adult-daughters-in-new-round-of-sanctions

The "problem" is we only have about 30 :banghead:banghead:banghead

and

If Canada were to send M777s, he added, they would need to be replaced for the army. Leslie nonetheless said Ukraine clearly needs heavy weapons such as artillery, “and right now Ukraine has a higher need than we do.”

so much for "foresight".... just more "virtue signalling" from the clown prince.

EDIT

Either way for game purposes the m198 and the m777 are the same. In RL operationally they are different, the M777 is a more portable weapon but as OM arty in the game they are the same

The CBC is reporting four (4) are being sent which is I suppose 4 more than they had before and it's better than nothing but I don't think it's going to tip the balance

[blazejos]

I have not checked yet, but I watched a video where the Russian build BMD-4 (2015-2016) have a licensed French laser ranger finger and thermal imaging on them.

https://youtu.be/7FPgEIrMG7M


Other question is how much of this advanced western technology was sold to Russia silently and what is an real level of RF and optoelectronics on Russian side thanks to corrupted Politicians and corporations. In that sad case come to my mind some citation from W.I. Lenin from 1917
Western capitalists are so corrupted that they sell us a rope on which we hang them

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

On the electronics side this is very respectfully "OLD NEWS", Russia has been using advanced FCS, Circuit Cards, Computer Chips etc. etc. from foreign defense contractors for a lot longer than most people suspect.

A major example of this is THALES the maker of the very well-respected CATHERINE FCS which is used on their more advanced T-72 (White Eagle)/T-90 just for Russia. You'll also see it on Pakistan's T-84 for example and others.

From my files when I submitted both the foreign and later Russian White Eagle and note the date of the Ref as Aug. 29, 2007.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-catherine-for-russia-french-ir-for-t-90-tanks-03696/

This is already having serious consequences for Russia, both the EU and United States have made it illegal to sale new or existing advanced systems and spares to them due to the war.

You would be surprised how dependent the Russians are to this tech within the Russian Defense Complex. It is as noted above already doing so "on the ground" and it will only potentially get worse from here.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russia%E2%80%99s-military-admits-it-needs-western-technology-70916

I am in no way saying Russia isn't capable of designing or building advanced military or other equipment. They can and have.

It's just their reliance on Western advanced components will carry a cost.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Now CONFIRMED as submitted and being sent from Ft. Stewart, Ga. about 1.5hrs up the road from me. I suspect they'll be shipped out of Blount Island by a "fast carrier" roll on/roll off. They'll be somewhere in Europe in a matter of days.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_may_2022_global_security_army_industr y/us_started_the_delivery_of_m113_a3_variant_tracked _armored_apcs_to_ukraine.html

Someone might appreciate the confirmation.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Karagin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Giuoyta9heQ

Retro is back...sorta

[DRG]

I'll figure out how that can all mesh with the game restrictions.....eventually

[Mobhack]

The 6 vehicle double-platoon really does not fit the 10 item formation formation.

It will likely best be done with a platoon of grunts and then a platoon of carriers, for the human player only. He will have to manually load up the platoon. Option A.

Option B would be to make a "part A" and a "part B" each as a platoon, one would be notionally controlled by the armoured force Lt, the second by the infantry leutenant. Option B has been used before for some complex platoons.

The (leg) platoon formation is supposed to use the traditional 9 man section size - but it will have to be spread out into 6 man teams to fit the Bradleys carry capacity in the game.

Its actually a sensible way to do mech inf, with the carriers in a separate formation rather than crewed by the dismount platoon, methinks. So once the grunts are debussed, the APCs can go off and do somehing different (ie like the Russian concept of the Bronigroup, where the "Zulu pigs" are concentrated to form a company-level fire support element).

[DRG]

I was thinking more along the lines of adding a new "Mech Sec BFV-C" to 184 "Ind Mech Pl" ( also renationalized so it only shows up in the Pl) starting ?????? but this one would be all infantry with 2X 713 instead of 480+ ATGM team

What I don't know or missed at 3:47 am was how that changes the Co formation but I am sure someone will enlighten me.

That said the fact that Mech Inf Co is already maxed out makes this "interesting" ( Although..... I think I see a workaround )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To say I'm "a little anal" about tracking weapons programs over decades in some cases, might be seen as an understatement to some out here.

But it's what I do to the best of my abilities, and this brings me now to the troubled AJAX/ARIES (ARIES is now as of last Summer being evaluated for the same issues to a somewhat lesser degree of severity.) Programs.

My first ref. was one of the last published before the end of the last year 2021. To fully understand what's going on with AJAX/ARIES and as it will turn out, a realistic look beyond Oct. 2021 when it was written. To compare AJAX to the NIMROD and other failed programs doesn't bode well for the future.

I further agree MOD made a serious error in dropping the WARRIOR CSP (In game as the WARRIOR "W"CSP UNIT 276.) upgrade program that would've made that platform viable until 2035 or 2040. It was cheaper, already started w/a couple of PROTOTYPES on a very reliable platform. That money invested went to waste with the rest I understand going to the AJAX/ARIES program and the additional funding not helping to resolve their issues.

Quotes:
" Press reports this morning suggesting that even though, due to safety concerns in relation to vibration and noise, Army testing of Ajax was halted a year ago, GD UK was still able to book a £75m profit on Ajax IFV last year which hardly helps. Neither does the knowledge that subsequently came to light of just how much of the capability is being built in Spain for onward assembly, complete with problems, into GD’s purpose-built plant in Wales."
https://battle-updates.com/ajax-infantry-fighting-vehicle-uncertainty-drags-on-by-howard-wheeldon-fraes-wheeldon-strategic-advisory-ltd/#:~:text=The%20reality%20is%20that%2C%20already%20 late%20and%20with,Select%20Committee%20and%20the%2 0National%20Audit%20Office%20%28NAO%29.

The next is from March 2022 after the afore mentioned (Ref. 1) NOA released their report. As a "note" I quote from refs in the order they appear in the articles.

Quotes:

" The National Audit Office (NAO) warned there was a risk that troubles with the project "might prove insurmountable".

A Ministry of Defence (MoD) spokesperson said it would "not accept a vehicle that is not fit for purpose". "

" As of December 2021, more than 300 personnel may have been harmed by vibration and noise during testing, which has led to the significant delays. "

" Its report (Mine-NOA) found that the MoD itself has no confidence in its own target for Ajax to be fully operational by April 2025.

It also warned that it could take until the end of 2022 to find a solution, because the MoD and the manufacturer disagree on the safety of Ajax.

Meg Hillier, who chairs the House of Commons' Public Accounts Committee, said the NAO report "reads like a checklist for major project failure where almost everything that can go wrong, did go wrong".

The MP said: "Ajax has now joined the sorry pantheon of government projects which have gone off the tracks. "

"Ajax was supposed to be ready in 2017 but has already been pushed back twice. "

Labour's Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney MP, Gerald Jones, said the NAO report "makes for very grim reading".

They would further state,
" This damning report shows that the Ministry of Defence has not just let down staff, but also our armed forces who are in great need of vital new armoured fighting vehicles. "
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-60693070
(Note additional links at bottom of the article.)

My final thoughts: Based on tracking this program for at least ten years now, when you have serious in fighting occurring between MOD and the in this case GD on the direction of the program with both being at fault as I've reported beyond the current safety concerns, modifying which side you load the breach from etc. when the French left theirs unmodified and all things are working properly who do you think is meeting their FOC goals first?

And now the Gov't's involved and not happy about the delays, cost over runs, the wasted taxpayer's money (I think they elect those same MP's. ;)) and safety of the troops.

This "toxic" soup is not a good mix and at a minimum I see MAJOR delays and feel NOW more than in the past, this program has a real chance of meeting the same fate as the NIMROD.

What we need to consider is that the WARRIOR CSP UNIT 276 be pushed back to JAN 2024 START. This will give the Gov't and MOD more than enough time to determine whether to restart the WARRIOR CSP and IF THEY MAKE A DESCISION THIS YEAR to have it fielded by that date. The program was in a "mature state" when cancelled with field testing of the PROTOTYPES already have started. If anything, the MOD completed field testing and maybe reduced the number of the upgraded units to act as a "stop gap" while the AJAX issues got resolved. Also, WARRIOR CSP UNIT 276 was to get an armor/ERA(?) upgrade as well.

AJAX UNIT 602 before I go further, I feel it necessary to state that I REALLY like this piece of equipment. We have it working with the resources we had at the time and since (As we've pushed it back more times by one or two then the program itself was delayed and I believe we made some "tweaks" also along the way.) it's certainly as one of the best I feel we've done.

That being said, I feel at this point that to move the START to JAN 2025 is being generous.

ARES UNIT 908 the current START is off the mark, but it "got lost" in the AJAX issue. I'm more optimistic about this unit even though late last summer it got "dragged" into the same safety evaluation as the AJAX as reports to a somewhat lesser degree were happening to the crews on that platform as well. I think a new date START OF JAN/JUN 2023 is doable for ARES providing nothing more arises from the evaluations. remember ARES is in IOC with ONLY 14 units as of last fall.
https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events/news/2020/07/first-ares-armoured-vehicles-delivered-to-the-army/
https://armyrecognition.com/defense_news_july_2020_global_security_army_indust ry/british_army_takes_delivery_of_first_six_ares_apc_ armored_personnel_carrier_in_the_ajax_family.html
https://news.sky.com/story/army-pauses-trials-of-3-47bn-fleet-of-armoured-fighting-vehicles-over-speed-and-safety-concerns-12323587
(ONLY 14 units with IOC PLANNED for late summer last year.)


That's the best I can do for now.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[blazejos]

Future APC in Poland

Intended replacement for BWP-1 is Borsuk which production already starting.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/news/2022/april/Borsuk_is_the_next_generation_of_tracked_armored_I FV_for_the_Polish_army_925_001.jpg

Poland also plan to buy South Korean [B]AS21 Redback but a little bit different than this on photo with ZSSW-30 tower from Borsuk

https://www.tanknet.org/uploads/monthly_2022_07/5.jpg.67dfeec55aab76c7f1a18228a9d8c736.jpg

Borsuk probably will be ordinary an APC and AS21 an Heavy APC becuase can't 💦

[blazejos]

BMP-1TS Ukraine new modernisation of old BMP-1 prototype build in 2018 and serial production in 2021 as for now only 10 delivered and already used in front-line.

has new optical equipment and new tower SPYS

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/rare_ukraine_modified_bmp_1ts_ifvs_on_the_front_li ne_only_a_dozen_of_them_in_service-3228.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illustration/articles/d8f62a19dfc874a6.jpg

[blazejos]

And here DPR Russian creativity such hybrid MT-LB together with BMP-1 tower from broken IFV

https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/invaiders_found_original_way_to_artisan_stamp_a_re placement_for_bmp_1_ifv-3685.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illustration/articles/a6962dff96e4246d.jpg

[blazejos]

Other hybrid MT-LB+BTR-82A in Russian forces captured by Ukrainians
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukraines_military_captured_russias_hybrid_of_the_m t_lb_and_btr_82a-3851.html

This type of vehicles was intensive used during war in Chechenia in early 90's
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illustration/articles/65d62f5077eef710.jpg

Here original photo from 1990's
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/6c162f5089575636.jpg

[blazejos]

BMO-T heavy APC transporter build on T-72 chassis for units of RPO-A "Shmel" Russia build only 10 of them and now some were lost during "Special military operation"
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/9d063234fdf57724.webp

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/russia_made_a_bunch_of_vehicles_for_flamethrower_u nits_on_a_t_72_chassis_only_to_lose_them_in_ukrain e-4234.html

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

An article on the ACV from earlier today that I just read a short time ago has led me to found out what became of the AAV.

The news isn't good for either platform right now.

Another ACV has floundered making it the 3rd one since July when 2 did the same in July. It has already missed its first OPEVAL deployment which I believe was to have occurred last month. Obviously, this most recent event will further delay this 1st OPEVAL deployment by 2-3 months at least.

In this last incident I'm glad to report all three crew members got out safely. :cool:

These deployments are scheduled 2 or more years out at least some much longer depending on platform.

AVC first...
"At 7:45 p.m. on Thursday, Oct. 13 the amphibious combat vehicle suffered an unspecified “mechanical malfunction” during a training operation in the surf zone near Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, California, according to the Marine Corps. The malfunction caused the ACV to roll over. "

"It’s not the first surf-related incident to hit the ACV. A pair of mishaps in July caused the Marine Corps to halt tests and training in the open water. High winds and surf rolled one ACV onto its side while another was taken out of commission due to 8-foot-high waves. No one was injured in those accidents"

That would for the July incidents be a Sea State 5 with the BEAUFORT Scale that ALL Mariniers use worldwide. Both the AAV and ACV are designed to be able to operate in these conditions.
https://www.weather.gov/pqr/beaufort
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/marine-corps-halt-surf-tests-of-the-new-amphibious-combat-vehicle-after-it-flipped-over/ar-AA131Hna?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=1fbb06bb71ee44d19a75d09abb885616

AAV next...
This situation is an absolute disgrace and dereliction of duty.
If we treated Submarines like these AAV's then over my career it be likely I wouldn't be here now. If you think I'm overreacting just do a "deep read" of the incident and some of you will wonder and though and be grateful that not more Marines had died over the years.
https://news.usni.org/2021/03/25/investigation-7-month-long-chain-of-failure-led-to-9-killed-in-aav-sinking

Based on the above AAV incident the USMC in DEC 2021 has withdrawn the AAV from ALL at sea operations. They are still used currently for land operations ONLY.

Or if you prefer...
"This means that the vehicles will no longer deploy on operations. What is more, they are also being barred from training in the water during exercises." .
https://defbrief.com/2021/12/16/usmc-pulls-aavs-from-amphibious-operations-after-deadly-incident/
https://www.stripes.com/branches/marine_corps/2021-12-17/marines-amphibious-vehicles-operating-water-4000493.html

What is the "surf zone"?
Surf Zone
Area of water between the high tide level on the beach and the seaward side of the breaking waves.
https://w1.weather.gov/glossary/index.php?letter=s
Depending on the width of the beach and where the high tide comes up the beach, I'd say your GENERALLY looking at about 200yds/183m (Rounded up.) or so.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Suhiir]

I was thinking more along the lines of adding a new "Mech Sec BFV-C" to 184 "Ind Mech Pl" ( also renationalized so it only shows up in the Pl) starting ?????? but this one would be all infantry with 2X 713 instead of 480+ ATGM team

What I don't know or missed at 3:47 am was how that changes the Co formation but I am sure someone will enlighten me.

That said the fact that Mech Inf Co is already maxed out makes this "interesting" ( Although..... I think I see a workaround )

I'm a bit late to the party but ...
Most of the USMC motor/mech formations make use of an infantry and a transport section because of the 10 unit/formation limit.
Can't say as I've ever tried them with the AI in control to see if it can actually load the transports tho.

[Suhiir]

An article on the ACV from earlier today that I just read a short time ago has led me to found out what became of the AAV.
AAV's are getting pretty long in the tooth (they were introduced in 1972) and most took a beating in Iraq/Afghanistan. They really haven't been used amphibiously (other then the occasional training) since they were introduced and since around 2003 till recently not even much amphibious training so crews/unit maintenance have gotten out of practice properly maintaining them for amphibious operations. And I imagine spare parts (particularly rubber hatch gaskets) are probably in very short supply due to the fact that they've been "about to be replaced" several times in the last 20 or so years I don't imagine acquiring/maintaining adequate stocks of replacement parts has been high on the bean counters priority list.

None of this is meant to excuse what's happened merely explain why it may have.

As our resident bubblehead can surely attest, anything going into and particularly under (as AAVs do when they drive off the ship and any time they're hit by any but the most mild wave) the water needs a lot of skilled maintenance on a consistent basis.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I MUST GET READY FOR WORK BUT QUICKLY THE ADF BOXER HAS JUST REACHED IOC AFTER COMPLETING BEACH LANDING OPERATIONS A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. IOC AS OF THIS PAST WEEK.

SOURCE SENT ELSEWHERE.

SORRY FOR CAPS-JUST WHERE MY KEYBRD. WAS SET.

GOTTA GO 5MINS AGO!!

REGARDS,
PAT
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, I'm about an hour late but Happy Halloween! to the Greek Army those MARDER 1A3 IFV's were inducted (FOC) yesterday. Check last Para. for any "tweaks" that might be needed in regard to protection.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_october_2022_global_security_army_ind ustry/german-made_marder_1a3_tracked_armored_ifvs_are_now_in_se rvice_with_army_of_greece.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

The Japan Ministry of Defense has announced today that Patria AMVXP 8x8 has been selected for the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force as their next Wheeled Armored Personnel Carrier 8x8 vehicle under the WAPC programme. The selection includes manufacturing licence of the vehicles in Japan, with a solid contribution to the local economy and technology development securing the supply and service in Japan. The Patria AMVXP 8x8 vehicles will be replacing the Type-96 8x8 Armored Personnel Carrier vehicles which are currently in service by Japan Ground Self-Defense Force.

https://www.patriagroup.com/newsroom/news/2022/patria-amvxp-8x8-vehicle-selected-by-japan-as-a-new-wheeled-armored-personnel-carrier-wapc-for-japan-ground-self-defense-force

[DRG]

What we have now in the Japanese OOB is the Type 19 that was entered in 2018

http://www.military-today.com/apc/new_japanese_8x8_apc.htm

Still digging to see what the Patria will be named. The "good news" is all these type APC's look alike and that's why it already uses a Patia based Icon and has the same armor ratings as the Patria

If they follow past conventions guessing it will be a Type 04..... Maybe Type 22.... maybe

In any event, it is 50/50 whether one will be issued before the end of 2025

[DRG]

German DPA news article translated:

I see I may need to make "adjustments" to the OOB......

It's the "affect vehicles in a special configuration" bit that is "interesting" as well as "turret defects" comment but especially.........."was only declared combat-ready last year"




The Bundeswehr started an exercise with 18 Puma infantry fighting vehicles, but after a few days none were operational. A letter is now causing a stir.

The Bundeswehr encountered serious technical problems during exercises with Puma infantry fighting vehicles for NATO‘s "spearhead" . During training with 18 combat vehicles, operational readiness dropped to zero within a few days, the “Spiegel” reported on Saturday. The magazine referred to a letter from the commander of the 10th Panzer Division, Major General Ruprecht von Butler, to the army leadership and the Ministry of Defence.

According to information from the German Press Agency, the maneuver took place at the armored force's target practice center and the letter has caused a stir in the Ministry of Defense since Friday. Because the new breakdowns affect vehicles in a special configuration, with which the Buttlar subordinate Panzergrenadierbrigade 37 is supposed to participate in the VJTV (Very High Readiness Joint Task Force) of the alliance from the new year. After reading the letter, the "Spiegel" reported a total failure. The last two "Pumas" that were still ready for action "on yesterday's shooting day after an hour and a half with turret defects" also failed, the general wrote.

Defects have never occurred "with this frequency".

According to the report, the electronics of the high-tech tanks in particular are vulnerable, and there was even a serious cable fire in the driver's compartment of one tank. The troops were already aware of the nature of the defects, the e-mail said, but they had "never occurred with this frequency before." The systems were only moved to shooting ranges in the North German lowlands and were "not overused" there. According to the assessment of the foreman of the affected company, which he considers very credible, the General writes, it can be assumed that the company will only be fully operational again in three to four months.

The Puma infantry fighting vehicle, which was plagued by numerous technical problems, was only declared combat-ready last year. The combat vehicle developed and produced by Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) and Rheinmetall Landsysteme GmbH (RLS) had previously made headlines as a "breakdown tank".

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

At least the UK was smart (Though the Parliament had to step in on "behalf" :rolleyes: of the MOD.) enough not to proceed with the AJAX (Another SDR decision on AJAX is supposed to be released in March 2023.) ), obviously I give the Germans too much credit.

If only Rommel or Gurdian was still around, this probably wouldn't have happened!?! :D

I think that your article post means a START date change if it only came into operational service last year. Might have something in my APC folder if needed.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

There is something even more buggered up about this than usual

FWIW Wiki's source claims "In service 2015–present" They have a photo captioned "A Puma of Panzergrenadier Battalion 33 during a live-fire exercise at Bergen-Hohne Training Area in 2016." but that article says it "was only declared combat-ready last year"

Wikis sources also claim "The Puma has been in service with the German Army since April 2015. 350 vehicles have been delivered as of August 2021. Originally 405 were ordered, but on 11 July 2012 the order was reduced to 350. In March 2022 the German Army secured financing for a second batch of 229 Pumas."

So IDK WTF it is

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/puma_tracked/

The Puma entered service with the German Armed Forces in April 2015 after going through the rigorous tests and completing the final acceptance test.

UNTIL I LEARN ANYTHING MORE DEFINITIVE AND VERIFIABLE THAT'S WHAT IT WILL BE IN THE GAME

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm sure the PUMA issue is resolved to my mind when I see words like "evaluated", "testing", "operational testing" and similar after reading several articles on the stoppage of production on the PUMA.

Well, there's more than one PUMA.

The first has been operational for a few years now. The PUMA...
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=2986

The current "troublemaker" is the PUMA JVTF/PUMA S1 with the first PUMAs to have started the upgrade process earlier this year.
http://tank-masters.de/?page_id=8685

Arby's might have the MEAT but I have the refs. ;) :D :p :cool: plus, the E-MO- GEEZ!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Aeraaa]

Well, it seems that for the time being Puma will be in the fridge:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/puma-tank-failure-is-heavy-setback-germany-defence-ministry-2022-12-19/

I do believe they'll sort things out eventually, but there should be a period in 2022-2023 where they arent available.

[DRG]

It would appear that this "issue" only affects the latest upgrade. The originals are operational

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, it's finally happening these next two have been "waiting in the wings" more recently in the last week or so concerning the BRADLEY.

Someone just had to be first to step up and that was France with the AMX-10 RCR (Upgraded version.) with a new 105mm round, this is a "done deal" so it's a matter of when as opposed to if.
More on this somewhere else.

So here come the MARDERS and BRADLEYS...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_january_2023_global_security_army_ind ustry/germany_to_deliver_ukraine_with_40_marder_ifv_infa ntry_fighting_armored_vehicles.html
(Mentions the "French Connection".)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_january_2023_global_security_army_ind ustry/us_announces_the_delivery_to_ukraine_of_50_bradley _ifv_armored_vehicles.html
(Might be the same ones Jordan received a couple of years ago.)

Now we wait for the WHEN.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

(might be the same ones jordan received a couple of years ago.)[/b]



Lebanon not Jordan


Assuming this does happen and we add them to the OOB's they will be in their own UC and use the BMD sections for passengers

[DRG]

BMO-T heavy APC transporter build on T-72 chassis for units of RPO-A "Shmel" Russia build only 10 of them and now some were lost during "Special military operation"

What these are in MBT are ammo carriers

Their main purpose is to carry 32 RPO-series one shot flame-throwers for use by the 7 Chemical troops they carry and there is a good chance only half of them are still in use.

I will add this into the SHP files for use by scenario designers to swap with an existing ammo carrier

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16813&stc=1&d=1673127994


But IMHO it's not worth using one of the few slots left in that OOB for

[blazejos]

This icon it's great and thanks for add this to shp file

[MarkSheppard]

Re: PUMA

Been reading another forum and the basics are:

1.) The Bundeswehr no longer has integral maintenance units at Battalion level.

2.) The Pumas were apparently from the training pool which has no corporate unit "ownership" -- they were passed around.

3.) Turns out all but one of the 18 Puma AIFV that broke down during a training exercise could have been fixed by the army within 30 minutes if they had mechanics and the spare parts.

4.) Lots of petty failures -- screen breaks after accidentally being kicked; a blown fuze, screw loose on the ATGM launcher, one vehicle was perfectly fine, but the crew forgot that the auxiliary heating only works when the engine is turned on -- in one sample only two were really damaged -- they had deformed turret rings from hitting something (?)

5.) Slightly related -- about 20 years ago when the Swedish evaluated PzH 2000 and AS-90; they essentially said AS-90 was suitable for conscripts while PzH 2000 was more suitable for career soldiers due to more details to keep track of -- during the Swedish trials it seems you had to keep the floor of the PzH 2000 really clean as small gravel pebbles had a tendency to get into the moving parts there and cause issues otherwise.

[Mobhack]

Damaged turrets can happen due to quite small things. Way back in the 1970s one of the University OTC Saladins had the crew forget to travel secure the turret while going over to St Andrews, and on a downhill section of road the turret swung round and the barrel swiped and destroyed a concrete streetlamp.

Required a new 76mm gun barrel (even though it loked perfectly fine visually) and workshop inspection to check the turret race bearings ( IIRC, I was in the Territorials then as it paid much better than UOTC, but had a friend who was in the UOTC).

Interview "without coffee" for the officer cadet in charge:doh:

[DRG]

More things added. Just waiting to see if it's the 30mm or 40mm version

Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson announced on Thursday his country would provide Ukraine with 50 CV90 vehicles and 12 Archer systems to boost Ukraine's defences against Russia’s invasion.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Looks like the 40mm m/70B as modified from the Bofors 40 mm L/70 automatic gun used primarily for AA purposes. If it's an export CV90 version from Sweden, then see the below NEXT PARA.
http://hhogman.se/combat-vehicles-1-swe.htm

"The Swedish version of the main infantry fighting vehicle (IFV) is fitted with a turret from Bofors that is equipped with a 40 mm Bofors autocannon. Export versions are fitted with Hägglunds E-series turrets, armed with either a 30 mm Mk44 or a 35 mm Bushmaster autocannon."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_january_2023_global_security_army_ind ustry/sweden_offers_50_cv90_ifvs_and_12_archer_self-propelled_howitzers_to_ukraine.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

OK, 40mm was my guess as that's the standard Swedish version

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

We now know which CV90 the Ukraine will get...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_january_2023_global_security_army_ind ustry/sweden_provides_ukraine_with_cv9040_one_of_the_mos t_modern_ifvs_in_the_world.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Well that's good as it's the one I put in the OOB...

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, I need a short break from the war and went looking for information concerning the AJAX which should've been in service about 8 years ago or so.

It seems "GD" around OCT 2022 had made adjustments to the AJAX to reduce the vibration and noise levels to an "acceptable" level.

I cannot not for sure say the Reliability Growth Trials have started this month as planned for AJAX.

ASSUMING they have as it currently stands from MOD, those trials WILL NOT be completed before JUN 2024 or JAN 2025. (They use the Normal Calendar year.) . The following are from NOV & DEC 26, 2022.

I'll be providing the "click on" links from the article as they appear in it.
https://www.army-technology.com/news/no-realistic-timescale-the-uk-ajax-armoured-vehicle/#:~:text=In%20the%20final%20few%20days%20of%202022 %2C%20a,in%20January%202023%2C%20could%20run%20unt il%20Q1%202025.
https://www.army-technology.com/features/in-service-date-for-uks-ajax-vehicle-remains-a-mystery/
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2022-11-30.99721.h
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-12-13/109427
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1120332/The_defence_equipment_plan_2022_to_2032.pdf
(PAGE 29 IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE. AS THE ARTICLE STATED THERE ARE NO SERVICE-CONNECTED DATES i.e., IOC/FOC FOR EITHER AJAX OR BOXER.)


I've been posting on this for OVER 14 years (2008) now (Indias ARJUN was ONLY 10 years by comparison.) back then it was the FRES-SV Program which was another disaster. For background purposes...
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/britain-releases-defence-equipment-2008-report-04821/
https://www.army-technology.com/projects/fres/
https://www.deagel.com/news/n000006302
https://www.army-technology.com/projects/scout-specialist-vehicle/
https://www.defensedaily.com/general-dynamics-completes-fres-sv-trials/international/
http://armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0131.html


That's enough damage for this OMG early morning.

I need this to happen so I know when to get to bed!?! :typing: :pc:

Well it's better than CINCLANTHOME doing that!?! :eek: :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The date I have in the V17 OOB is 1/125. What you see in yours was changed months ago.There's an even chance it will be later than that

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

BRADLEY status sort of for Ukraine.

Prepping for shipment for training purposes. Also, USA moving forward into Poland to support maintenace operations there for our units in country and further support of BRADLEY's before shipping them to the Ukraine once training is complete.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_february_2023_global_security_army_in dustry/us_field_support_battalion-mannheim_ships_bradley_fighting_vehicles_to_help_t rain_ukrainian_forces.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/feb/17/pentagon-first-ukrainian-troops-finish-training-us/

The Washington Times - Friday, February 17, 2023

The first group of Ukrainian soldiers completed training this week on the U.S.-supplied M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicle at the Army’s Grafenwoehr Training Area in Germany, U.S. military officials said Friday.

...

More than 630 Ukrainian soldiers completed the five-week training program on how to operate the M2 Bradley in combat. The instructions also included basic soldier tasks such as marksmanship and medical training and a final battalion-level force-on-force exercise, Pentagon officials said Friday.

...

More battalion-level combined arms training classes are already underway at the Grafenwoehr Training Area. Another Ukrainian battalion began training on the M2 Bradley before the first group graduated, military officials said.

American troops are also training Ukrainian artillery soldiers on the M109 Paladin howitzer. Next week, an infantry battalion will receive instructions on the M1126 Stryker, officials said.

I'm thinking April/May is when we see the US gear (Bradley/Stryker/M109 Paladin) enter major combat -- right now we're training the trainers, who will in turn train more people themselves...

[DRG]

I'm thinking April/May is when we see the US gear (Bradley/Stryker/M109 Paladin) enter major combat -- right now we're training the trainers, who will in turn train more people themselves...

Of course, we will all look back a year from now with hindsight that will be 20/20 and I still have another month and a half or so to nail down a better number that will no doubt, probably be wrong but FOR NOW I have the Stykers in 4/23 and the Bradleys 5/23 only because the learning curve is steeper for the Brads and FOR NOW the Abrams is 9/23 and that could all change tomorrow..... or this afternoon.... or not at all and if a true breakthrough is made and everything is needed to plug the hole then everything could change......again

[zovs66]

Read this today:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-military/2023/02/17/ukrainian-battalion-completes-first-combined-arms-training-in-germany/

[DRG]

Other hybrid MT-LB+BTR-82A in Russian forces captured by Ukrainians]


Just getting around to this..... it's already in the game as Russian unit 800 and now in Ukraine as well

[DRG]

"wait and see"....... that's all we can do ATM

[MarkSheppard]

More waiting and seeing:

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1630250948898738176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

"The first battalion of the Armed Forces of Ukraine completed training on the operation of the M2A2 Bradley," said Oleksandr Pavlyuk, First Deputy Minister of Defense.

https://twitter.com/DenesTorteli/status/1630252495975989251?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Training of tankers from the 4th Tank Battalion on Leopard 2A4 tanks in Poland with Canadian instructors

[DRG]

I found some much better views of the UKR BT-4 than I had found in the past and realized how wrong the ones I had in there were so they have all been redone ( wip )

https://i.imgur.com/RXkhm5W.png

[Suhiir]

Don, while you're on the subject ... maybe look at the relative size of the LVT7/AAV vs the ACV icons.

LVT
Length 7.94 m
Width 3.27 m
Height 3.26 m

ACV
Length 8.90 m
Width 3.10 m
Height 2.80 m

[DRG]

A hint about what you think is wrong would be nice.............

[DRG]

Based on the info you provided a "case" could be made that both are ONE PIXEL too long and the ACV is ONE PIXEL too wide

RPT..... ONE PIXEL and in case you didn't know one pixel for vehicle icons = 6 inches


This would be the difference 300% larger than normal
https://i.imgur.com/B83CRa6.png


SERIOUSLY ? this is an issue?

EDIT.....I have seen cases where at this scale a couple of pixels especially in width can make an obvious difference when corrected but I don't see that happening in this case

[Suhiir]

A hint about what you think is wrong would be nice.............
As said.
Their relative size looked a bit off.
Maybe just an illusion but the ACV icon looked much longer then the LVT/AAV one not 8.90 vs 7.94, i.e. 112% the length. Maybe the somewhat tapered bow on the LVT/AAV ...

[blazejos]

MT-LB with naval guns are not a prototype according to this insformations are serial manufactuting and results of sanctions

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/russias_started_manufacturing_the_mt_lb_with_the_2 m_3_marine_anti_aircraft_gun-5947.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/the_new_mt_lb_hybrids_with_ship_anti_aircraft_guns _have_been_spotted-6014.html

[DRG]

Russian Unit 870 will do exactly the same thing using exactly the same numbers as this would and it saves using a limited weapons slot for it as we do not have the 25mm aa gun in the Russian OOB

[blazejos]

Meaby add some not standard & small series Russian and (DPR &LPR creativity) vehicles to Red OOB in most cases will be used by scenario creators rather not in campaigns. The same way like overflow German vehicles in SPWW2

Here are different variations of this project:

First ship from where this guns comes from Project 1204 artillery boat with PT-76 tower

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/553640239634aa3b.jpg

MT-LB with various MG for AA purpose they certain are not serial produced

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/e8864023a15a23bf.jpg

[Suhiir]

If you want a modern patrol boat check out the 2023 USMC OOB when it's released.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I see what's on the web concerning the AMPV however there is at least one more legal step required before the USA can set a fielding date which won't happen until sometime after 3 April, 2023.
https://www.army.mil/article/264499/army_requests_feedback_on_its_plan_to_field_armore d_multi_purpose_vehicles
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11741
(Program status to Congress from USA.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Karagin]

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/03/16/army-fields-new-armored-personnel-carrier-replacing-60-year-old-vehicle.html

It seems that 3ID is already getting the vehicles.

[DRG]

It's nice to know we were only "out" by three months. Betting all that is going on spurred testing to a higher level. I will replace the existing photo with something less " fresh from the factory"

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As I just posted elsewhere, MOD has reset the dates for AJAX which isn't good for us. They apparently did restart the trials for AJAX in NOV/DEC 2022 after a very long pause that I had posted on since the program began. I'm not here to rehash the whole thing as I've got other issues to take care of, but it's all well documented in here if you feel you need more information.

For now, from the ref...
"According to a tweet posted on March 21 by the British Army, positive progress has continued on the next phase of Ajax trials, with the Ministry of Defence confirming the revised in-service dates and resuming payments to General Dynamics for delivery of the programme. With an initial payment of £480 million, withheld since December 2020 (That was 2 YEARS lost to that issue alone-Mine.) due to challenges with noise and vibration, the MOD will resume payments to General Dynamics as the vehicles are scheduled to enter initial operating capability between July and December 2025. "

"Subject to contract amendment, updated schedules direct that Initial Operating Capability will be achieved between July and December 2025, delivering a trained and deployable squadron that can be sustained on operations for up to six months. (What MOD has paid for thus far-Mine.) "

That pushes FOC well into 2026.

Also note from the current picture in the ref. AJAX appears to have an improved armor package as well from what we have now in the game.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2023_global_security_army_indus try/british_armys_ajax_program_moving_to_its_next_stag e_of_trials.html

I've just been given a new assignment from "HIGHER AUTHORITY" to complete and I better get on it or else I might get "busted down" a paygrade or two. :eek:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I won't report any further news on the AJAX as it's still not good and follows my last on it at FOC 2028 from MOD.

So, I'll move on to the Ukraine, MARDER A3/A3+ START MAR (Announced on the 29th)/APR 2023.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2023_global_security_army_indus try/marder_1a3_tracked_armored_ifvs_donated_by_germany _enter_into_service_with_ukrainian_army.html

Also, the EU and U.S. from the weapons "BANK Fund" are buying from Poland 100 NEW Production ROSOMAK APC
8x8 as shown in the ref. The contract was signed on the 1st of this month.

HOWEVER, THERE IS NO TIMELINE WHEN PRODUCTION WILL BEGIN OR WHEN THEY WILL BE DELIVERED.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2023_global_security_army_indus try/poland_announces_the_sale_to_ukraine_of_100_rosoma k_8x8_armored_vehicles.html

Done for today and probably well until whenever. Time for a walk.!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[blazejos]

Intresting is which version of Rosmoak are inside this order?

Rosomak with HIFIST
Rosomak with ZSSW-30
Rosomak M3
Rosomak with RAK

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/there_are_two_kinds_of_rosomak_vehicles_for_ukrain e_lets_take_a_look_at_both-6271.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/news/ukraine_will_buy_100_modern_armored_personnel_carr iers-6260.html

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukraine_actively_ordering_polish_weapons_the_rak_s elf_propelled_mortar_might_be_added_to_the_rosomak _and_krab-6272.html

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/100-rosomak-armored-personnel-carriers-ordered-for-ukraine/

[DRG]

Wait and see, They won't be coming anytime soon

[DRG]

Anyone knows anything about this ?

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/ukraine/2022/04/29/north-carolina-national-guard-to-lend-support-to-ukraine/

https://www.militarytimes.com/resizer/aBofBVQjXYZmgHWTcDVMG0-hQSI=/1024x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/archetype/DF4SLCHRXBH3BMNS2YRHLVODRE.jpg

I have no idea what's in that turret mounted on the 113. It looks like ( sorta) an Australian M113A1 FSV but the barrel seems too long and it is allegedly part of a package of M113s being sent to Ukraine but I suspect an editor found an "interesting shot" and included it but what this is and why it was supposedly at the Joint Multinational Readiness Center in Hohenfels, Germany is unknown to me

Anyone?

Another version of this article captions this photo

Soldiers assigned to the 1st Battalion, 4th Infantry Regiment maneuver a modified M113 armored personnel carrier during an exercise at the Joint Multinational Readiness Center in Hohenfels, Germany, on Jan. 31, 2022. (Spc. Nathaniel Gayle/U.S. Army)


OK...... found more info by Googling "1st Battalion, 4th Infantry Regiment"

https://currentops.com/img/default/eyJwaG90b0lkIjozNTM2LCJuYW1lIjoicGhvdG9cL21heDgwMF wvb3RoZXJcLzAwMDAzXC8wMDAwMzUzNiJ9.jpg

https://currentops.com/img/default/eyJwaG90b0lkIjozNTQwLCJuYW1lIjoicGhvdG9cL21heDgwMF wvb3RoZXJcLzAwMDAzXC8wMDAwMzU0MCJ9.jpg

https://currentops.com/img/default/eyJwaG90b0lkIjozNTU1LCJuYW1lIjoicGhvdG9cL21heDgwMF wvb3RoZXJcLzAwMDAzXC8wMDAwMzU1NSJ9.jpg

https://currentops.com/img/default/eyJwaG90b0lkIjozNTU0LCJuYW1lIjoicGhvdG9cL21heDgwMF wvb3RoZXJcLzAwMDAzXC8wMDAwMzU1NCJ9.jpg


Have not yet found a description


FOUND IT !

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a26732178/armys-fake-russian-tanks/

"The Army Dressed Up Older Armored Vehicles to Impersonate Russian Tanks"

:doh::doh::doh:

https://www.flickriver.com/photos/125570468@N07/25374050584/




Dieser Panzer M113 A3/OSV-MBT der U.S.ARMY,dient auf Truppenübungsplätzen der amerikanischen Streitkräfte als Darstellungsfahrzeug "feindlicher Kampfpanzer". Dieser Panzer gehört zum Joint Multinational Trainingscenter (JMTC) Hohenfels (OSTS-MBT= Opposing Forces Surrogate Training-Main Battle Tank) der 1st Battalion, 4th Infantry. Aufgenommen beim 44.Deutsch-Amerikanischen Volksfest der U.S.ARMY Garrison Hohenfels, 02.Mai 2015

This M113 A3/OSV-MBT tank of the US ARMY is used on military training areas of the American armed forces as a presentation vehicle for "enemy main battle tanks". This tank belongs to the Joint Multinational Training Center (JMTC) Hohenfels (OSTS-MBT= Opposing Forces Surrogate Training-Main Battle Tank) of the 1st Battalion, 4th Infantry. Recorded at the 44th German-American Folk Festival of the US ARMY Garrison Hohenfels, May 2nd, 2015

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, I'm going to "step out" of the Thread box for a moment as this is part of the of and the lead in the ref below.

Ref. 1
"Just this week, 65 Ukrainian air defenders completed Patriot training at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, and have now arrived back in Europe."

Ref. 2
"Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) missile defense project director Tom Karako ..."

"Built by Raytheon Missiles & Defense, each battery includes a radar, control station, power generators, 5-8 launchers, support vehicles/equipment and requires about 90 personnel to operate. Considered a theater-scale surface-to-air missile defense system, it is mobile though “not super-mobile because of its footprint,” Karako says."

It would appear from what I've read that the Ukraine will be operating 2 Batteries of the PATRIOT System.

This includes the one we're sending and with the combined total from the EU members who are conducting separate training on theirs in Europe.

Ref. 1

"Meanwhile in Germany, at the close of this month, more than 4,000 Ukrainian soldiers and two brigades, one equipped with M2A2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles (ODAS as already identified and addressed.) and one equipped with Stryker ICVs will have completed combined-arms training and have returned to Ukraine."

"Additional combined-arms training is currently underway at Grafenwoehr and Hohenfels training areas in Germany, with two motorized infantry battalions consisting of 1,200 Ukrainian Armed Forces personnel. Operator and maintenance training on donated platforms is also ongoing, with more than 3,000 Ukrainian soldiers having completed platform training and 40 different programs of instruction on more than 20 systems since April of 2022."

"The 59 Bradley IFVs included in this package, together with the 50 Bradleys previously committed on January 6, and the 90 Stryker APCs will provide Ukraine with two brigades of armored capability. "

As I might've already mentioned they are keeping them with the same Brigade.

The ONLY other question besides when they'll be arriving and put into service is, will they wait for the ABRAMS or integrate them in the Combined Operations Training in country with their Russian/Ukrainian tanks which by the way for several months now are operating within their own Brigades etc. by tank type.

It's an interesting dynamic to ponder but, one I think will happen.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2023_global_security_army_indus try/ukrainian_soldiers_trained_in_us_back_home_to_form _two_brigades_equipped_with_bradley_ifvs_and_stryk er_icvs.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erictegler/2022/12/23/the-11-billion-patriot-missile-battery-the-us-is-sending-to-ukraine-is-symbolic-but-not-a-gamechanger/?sh=1af6786596f8

I figured I'd save you some the time of reading these (But feel free to do so.) as there seems to be some "reading into" an article vice just "reading it." and "The World continues to spin round and round". :rolleyes:

Based on the previous post just want to make sure the Ukraine got the Australian M113AS4. Which is the ONLY one they have.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/m113as4.htm

I'd rather be in theirs than ours given the choice.

EDIT: Australia is to build 100 BOXER CRV LANCER for Germany with deliveries to START SOMETIME IN 2025.

Current status the Australian BOXER CRV in it's STILL IN IOC.

I know this because I get their OFFFICIAL ARMY MOD "NEWSPAPER" online. Love the Aussies, they were very helpful to us and the game as Don might well remember as well.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

ONLY[/B] one they have.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/m113as4.htm

I'd rather be in theirs than ours given the choice.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Yep, it's been in for awhile

[lukerduker123]

I hate to provide a post that's all milk and no meat, but I felt like sharing this funny 'APC development'. A friend of mine has a friend (Yes yes, one giant game of telephone. This one, I promise, is legit) in Ukraine that's been part of the TDF since the war began, and recently his unit managed to snag hold of a Russian T-64(?) tank that had a busted turret and a wonked up drivetrain. Since the turret was worthless and the drivetrain was too messed up to use as an ARV they went for the next best idea possible. They tore the turret off, mounted a sort of casemate to the ring with a DShK mount and are using it in a 'Kangaroo' role. That is to say it's rolling about with the M113s, humvees, and assorted other equipment in their unit and carrying infantry around. Apparently from what I've heard the Russians don't like it all that much.

It's amazing what happens on the battlefield when you're at war, huh?

[DRG]

Interesting

If it was Russian that's the first T-64 I have heard reported. it if was a 64 it is more likely Ukrainian BUT...... I have heard that Donetsk and Luhansk have some and that is where the fighting is mostly

My question is ( and I know you don't know .....)if the " drivetrain was too messed up" to use as a ARV how is it working as an APC ?

That said it really doesn't surprise me though it is unusual the Ukrainians have shown a real talent for improvisation.

They build companies worth it might be worth putting in the game. A photo would be interesting

https://i.imgur.com/vsrngz4.png

[DRG]

Well this was fun
Found this

https://scalemodellingcentral.blob.core.windows.net/participants/20140309064113/edb1e604-4790-401f-abf1-32e3c7f71d27.jpg

That is a.......

T-54 converted into an improvised APC. Rebuilt/modified by the Israeli Army who quickly passed them on to the South Lebanon Christian militias. The turret is replaced by armour screens around the turret ring and armour shields are fitted to either side of drivers hatch. Known as the Tiran or T-54 APC, it has a five-person crew and carries an unknown number of troops


Found a photo.........

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/170/170606-d2c17f9658451cda7654aee096b69095.jpg

It appears from other photos I have found of what looks like museum photos and some illustrations they were painted Blue


https://i.imgur.com/yqU4vIK.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/T-54-APC-latrun-3.jpg/1024px-T-54-APC-latrun-3.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hSA4zcJ.png

https://upload.forumfree.net/i/ff7122163/7ShWp8X.jpg

Now integrated into the SLA in the Lebanese OOB

https://i.imgur.com/kmDYsVh.png
https://upload.forumfree.net/i/ff7122163/7ShWp8X.jpg

I never know what kind of rabbit hole I am going to go down on any given day............

[zovs66]

Those are begging for a scenario design ... very cool!

[DRG]

Some of the SLA vehicles border on Mad Max

https://i.redd.it/9ql579o2e9891.jpg
https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/09/AP_99060301556.jpg





https://i.imgur.com/YNOt3nP.png

[blazejos]

Poland Has also such APC build from assault gun TOSU-76
used by KBW (internal troops) in 50's decomisioned in early 70's after introduction of BMP-1 to mechanised trops
https://forum.odkrywca.pl/uploads/monthly_2022_05/994025798_Zrzutekranu(1330).thumb.png.951dc90d7eb8 2f3ed58c107d51cabcc3.png

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Both the Stryker M1126 APC/M1132 Stryker ESV are operational at this time. We do not know how many they actually have but they are there.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2023_global_security_army_indus try/us_has_delivered_m1132_stryker_esv_engineer_armore d_vehicles_to_ukraine.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I had the APC for April but the EVS for May...... both are April now

[Suhiir]

[QUOTE=DRG;854247]Some of the SLA vehicles border on Mad Max
https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2019/09/AP_99060301556.jpg

Brings back memories of the vehicles we had during Desert Storm.

Apx. 20xHMMWV with a mix of M2 HMGs and Mk19 AGLs, 1x5-ton truck for general cargo (mostly concertina wire to construct a POW compound), 1xCity bus outfitted as a mobile field kitchen, 1xT-55 to tow the bus when it got stuck, 2xSazuki Samurai "liberated" from the Iraqis, 2xKLR motorcycle (messengers).

[lukerduker123]

And there we have it folks (https://twitter.com/praisethesteph/status/1647463535931162624), a T-64 APC out in the wild. Isn't she beautiful? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftz3UinWcAEBuEc?format=jpg&name=medium

[blazejos]

Just add article about this T-64 vehicle from official source
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/ukraine-repurposes-t-64-tank-as-armored-recovery-vehiclee/
according to their source this isn't APC :( ARV recovery vehicle

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft2twYZWwAAv0mR?format=jpg&name=small

They also recieve TAB-71M from Romania
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/tab-71m-armored-personnel-carriers-arrive-in-ukraine/

New photo of Kevlar-e from frontline
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsTANXVWYAEK1aF?format=jpg&name=small

[blazejos]

And there we have it folks (https://twitter.com/praisethesteph/status/1647463535931162624), a T-64 APC out in the wild. Isn't she beautiful?

In other article is stated that this vehicle is an APC and Ukraine long before full scalle war have similar concept of APC build on T-64 chasis and was called BMPV-64 by Kharkiv Armor Plant. So I'm a little bit confused this improvised vehicle is ARV or APC ? :( from other side BMPV-64 was never build in series and there is no info that prototype is used now so who now.

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/heavy_ifv_on_tank_chassis_forgotten_concept_revive d_by_ukrainian_russian_war-6426.html


Oryx also mention about Ovod APC build on Gaz-66 light truck chasis. only prototype was build but is actively used in fights here is a link about this vehicle

https://www.armyrecognition.com/weapons_defence_industry_military_technology_uk/ukraine_defense_industry_develops_ovod_new_concept _of_armour_modules_for_all-terrain_vehicles_12410154.html

https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/ukraine/wheeled_vehicle/ovod_gaz-66/pictures/Ovod_GAZ-66_4x4_armoured_personnel_carrier_Ukroboronprom_UK raine_Ukrainian_defense_industry_001.jpg
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2023/03/attrition-in-action-list-of-ukrainian.html

here photo which can proof usage of this simple APC

https://i.postimg.cc/QMXqVmFb/558.png

[DRG]

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2023/03/attrition-in-action-list-of-ukrainian.html

REALLY good photo of something T-?? that they din't bother to caption....

Can anyone tell me what it is?

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhzVxzcEwfGSeoWk7cRA-PBoPKfrZCJAVpxNUIEPkIuVocev3CHeLzA30j7IqkGsXxOvG9H gA6gQ94tRzpzVsShQC9kCA7xSXOwMfuEeWAFTdE4xB96wPA_gP D0WoahK6YxFGmW11PlSkekSHKb-iq5giFDk4j2T4V8cdvM45MoBqxyRXSTYOwzfjIq/s16000/337.jpg

The closest guess Google can come up with is T-80U but.....IDK

[blazejos]

T-84U is on the list under this tank the same photo

[blazejos]

Poland Has also such APC build from assault gun TOSU-76


Found two others photos of APC SU-76 --> TOSU-76

https://scontent.fpoz4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/102717915_2533664500229484_2670934217424109568_n.j pg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=eV427ppiuukAX-ADbEr&_nc_ht=scontent.fpoz4-1.fna&oh=00_AfBnoWpfehrHEJ8XmDEmw5n8iS5GVwbdgKQMm6oB6OE8 gg&oe=64663ECD

https://scontent.fpoz4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/102311788_2533664433562824_421131713855356928_n.jp g?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=yWfNHGcqs8EAX-s55kO&_nc_ht=scontent.fpoz4-1.fna&oh=00_AfB9LnXirsx9qFFR6f1l3CA9I_WGD_YKzyr5kRiENwDr OA&oe=64662B74

Bradley in Ukraine pixelated camo

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illustration/articles/b19643e52e7cee3c.jpg

[Suhiir]

in Ukraine pixelated camo

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illustration/articles/b19643e52e7cee3c.jpg

Ya know, that pixelated cammo does a pretty good job of breaking up the vehicles silhouette. You actually have to look twice to be sure it's a Bradley.

[DRG]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/02/ukraine-war-live-updates-latest-news-on-russia-and-the-war-in-ukraine.html

The order of the stories may change depending on when this is viewed but the one that caught my eye was "Volunteers build ‘Frankenstein’ vehicles to aid the Ukraine effort"

Which look like a lot of things that were built during the Spanish Civil war ( and for the same reasons )
https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/107233926-1683030842905-gettyimages-1252527932-AFP_33E99EB.jpeg?v=1683034166&w=740&h=416&ffmt=webp&vtcrop=y
https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/107233923-1683030842831-gettyimages-1252527555-AFP_33E99E2.jpeg?v=1683034166&w=740&h=416&ffmt=webp&vtcrop=y

[blazejos]

There are not APC or whatever else they are even not military vehicles even if they are armored. The are ambulances on the wheel's and created to save life. Bus is now mobile hospital and was a ordinary city bus in earlier life and look on articles about this strange vehicles from Romania and its creator ...

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-war-romanians-crowdfund-mad-max-armored-vehicles/32376609.html

Movie with process of creation of this vehicles this bus with all the plates and equipment inside cost 70.000€ even if bus was given for free by polish Town
https://twitter.com/i/status/1622238540674236417

This medical vehicles are created In the memory of Oleg Gubal! who died during transport and his death inspired building of this vehicles for medical teams on frontline.

Here original creator twitter
https://twitter.com/RaduHossu?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor

and his words about this bus
This is not MadMax. This is the MEDIVAC for Oleg Gubal Mobile Hospital Complex 100% funded by #Romanian donors on my Facebook page. This Vehicle is 90% ready. Tires will be changed. It will be anti-mine NATO standard protected. This will take the wuunded from 0 line. Thread: 1/N

Movie with presentation of the bus
https://twitter.com/i/status/1633619573508276225

And here he founding whole project of mobile hospital
https://autorota.com.ua/en/

His vision of mobile front line hospital
We did not gave up and now the Mobile Military Complex will be made out of 5 vehicles, not 2:
1 Medical Bus - Operation Room (double Swebor Armor 600) armored.
1 Extraction Vehicle - a Ford on a Kamaz Chassy.
1 Logistical vehicle
2 Ambulances
All armored, ready for off road. /6

[blazejos]

But "MadMax" were really used by Azov battalion but in ... 2014 during recapturing Mariupol

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/20140614_UkraineAlert_MariupolTank.jpg

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/the-battle-for-mariupol/

[blazejos]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/02/ukraine-war-live-updates-latest-news-on-russia-and-the-war-in-ukraine.html

The order of the stories may change depending on when this is viewed but the one that caught my eye was "Volunteers build ‘Frankenstein’ vehicles to aid the Ukraine effort"


Mobile hospital will be ready to action in next week according to its creator look on their last movie on twitter
https://twitter.com/RaduHossu?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, it looks like we can say farewell to the AJAX.

The UK Govt. via UK MOD has finally released its update concerning AJAX in regard to where it currently stands in trials and its ability with no further delays in the rest of its trial schedule.

From the article:

"Ajax vehicles to reach Initial Operating Capability between July and December 2025."

"Full Operating Capability will follow between October 2028 and September 2029, when the Army has trained and converted forces to the Ajax platform to deliver Armoured Cavalry capability to the Deep Reconnaissance Strike Brigade and its two Armoured Brigade Combat Teams."

So, a 1 year "SWAG" in FOC again with no further delays in the ongoing trials portion.

A note about the first ref. this is released on the UK Govt. website.

At the TOP note who its from and when you click on them you'll get the same exact article as posted just above. So to be CLEAR
this is from BOTH MOD and the UK Govt. official sites.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ajax-vehicles-on-course-for-new-delivery-times
https://www.army-technology.com/news/uk-inservice-dates-ajax-programme/

This I suspect will only be the first of a few more to fall by the wayside but the reporting should make this as no surprise to anyone out here.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[blazejos]

Did you know that this mobile bus hospital was targeted in 21 of may in Kiev even if this vehicles are not strict military vehicles but created to save life even of opposite side. You can read more on creators twitter https://twitter.com/RaduHossu?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7 Ctwgr%5Eauthor


The Mobile Hospital i was building from Romanan's donations was targeted and bombed by the russians. It was built on a civilian site by a civilian company in Kyiv. Nothing to do with military! A MOBILE HOSPITAL WAS BUILDING THERE! Damages:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fwq_OF8WIAAI66P?format=jpg&name=small

And that opens other question that I :doh: and all we together as a community around this game are not in that case a bunch of Useful idiots https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot and is better to stop totally discuss about war in Ukraine and SPMBT until war ends because we don't know how this even openly available information's aggregated together are used by someone who are around us on this forum :( . What is your opinion ??

[zovs66]

I just read this article on the Russian BMPT Terminator.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/20535

Is this BMPT Terminator the same thing in game as the BMPT-72 ?

[scorpio_rocks]

Is this BMPT Terminator the same thing in game as the BMPT-72 ?


Yes - however the article (wrongly) says it is based on the armarta

[DRG]

https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_russian_army_light_armoured_vehicle_uk/bmpt-72_terminator_2_tank_support_armoured_fighting_veh icle.html


Like the initial BMP-T, the BMPT-72 is based on the chassis of the T-72 tank

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, I continue to follow the AJAX and its variants most notably the ARIES.

There's nothing newer out on the web to include from MOD. There is however another source that's reporting the same as I posted several months back (3/or 4 posts above this one.) concerning FOC etc.

"Alex Chalk, UK minister for defense procurement announced the IOC reset today (Somewhere between July to Dec 2025 per para 1) in an update to parliament and also confirmed that FOC has been scheduled to take place between October 2028 and September 2029."

This will have a profound effect on ARIES as they share a common platform.

"Overall, the British Army will receive up to six Ajax variants, with the vehicle set to become the service’s first fully digitized platform. It will primarily serve in a Intelligence, Surveillance, Target Acquisition and Reconnaissance (ISTAR) role, integrated with a 40mm-stabilized cannon and a primary sight fitted with “imaging technology capability” allowing it to detect and engage targets at “far greater ranges” than legacy platforms, according to GDLS-UK company literature."

The "ISTAR" issue will involve more complex components to fulfill this role. In light of this I will review the "+" positive impact it will have on the FCS and TI/GSR as previously stated. But for now, there is no rush to do this based on the continuity of the narrative as being reported to include MOD from my previous post.
https://breakingdefense.com/2023/03/uk-finally-clears-troubled-ajax-infantry-fighting-vehicle-to-enter-service-in-2025-8-years-late/

Also, my weekly ARMY News from the Australian MOD last week confirmed that their BOXERs will besides the LANCE 40mm turret also carry 2 launchers for the SPIKE-LR.

Don't get too excited because they've already reported the BOXER dates and they are very similar to the UK AJAX/ARIES dates.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Karagin]

I saw something that the UK was maybe looking at a Swedish IFV to possibly replace the mess of the AJAX. The article only side it was one option on the table, nothing was stated that it was going to happen.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Saw similar myself when AJAX/ARIES where there was serious discussion before the latest issues came up which added more fuel to the fire.

But you reach a point of no return on the R&D end and beyond with the money already invested into the program that it makes more sense to try and fix the issues and hope for the best.

One example of this also involves the UK and I speak of the RN Aircraft Carriers. Due to the cost overruns and technical issues encountered the program was literally to be scrapped. However, after looking into the costs of scrapping those carriers, it was found to be much cheaper to just finish building them.

Going back to AJAX, MOD/Govt. finally "grew a pair" and withheld any further payments due General Dynamics and their subsidiaries (~750 million dollars) until they fixed the problems to an acceptable level. When indeed that occurred, the Motivation (Profit.) by industry managed to come up with solutions and fixes that for now is
why the AJAX/ARIES is moving forward again.

The delay has unfortunately cost us the ability to see them in the game.

Though I'll be cautiously optimistic for now and not call for them to be deleted.

However, another "push" to the right will be needed.

Somebody is going to have my Axx for staying up this late again two days in a row!?! :sec: :ahh:

And life goes on! :p

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Ex-British FV432 APCs join active service into Ukrainian Army and were inducted this month as assigned to the 22nd Special Purpose Battalion of the Ukrainian Separate Presidential Brigade.

These saw modernizations so are armed with the L7 General Purpose Machine Guns (GPMGs) which replaced the L4A4 variant of the Bren light machine gun, per the article.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/ukraine_-_russia_conflict_war_2022/ex-british_fv432_apcs_join_active_service_into_ukrain ian_army.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1759921281246376161?t=Yr0TTEZs3IzL5U67hM5tKw&s=19

Very nice near top shot of:

Family portrait. From bottom left clockwise: Boxer drone mothership, Boxer NEMO 120 mm mortar, Boxer IFV with Samson turret, Boxer RCH155, Boxer bridgelayer with 22-metre MLC 50 bridge, Boxer IFV with RCT30 turret, Boxer repair & recovery, and Boxer EW / C2 vehicle.

https://i.imgur.com/WNB7wF3.jpeg

In case icons need touching up, etc.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

For my Marine Buddy...

USMC Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle 30mm Autocannon (ARV-30) is to START a 2yr. competition to see who'll get the production contract.

So "GD" vs. Textron with 500 UNITS at stake with production to run from mid 2026 to 2032.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2024_global_security_army_indus try/general_dynamics_vs._textron_who_will_lead_us_mari ne_corps_into_future_with_arv-30_prototype_.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Officially in service this month the M117 GUARDIAN 250 units completely refurbished from USA stocks.

It has...
"It is equipped with an advanced armor system from IBD Deisenroth Engineering, a German firm known for its modular expandable armor packages. This includes ceramic composite applique armor for the exterior and a spall liner for the interior, offering robust protection against small arms fire, mine blasts, and Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs). The vehicle can transport up to eight infantry soldiers."

"The M1117 is fitted with a one-man non-stabilized turret which is armed with a 40mm automatic grenade launcher (MK19 MOD 3) and a .50-caliber machine gun (M2/M48) . This turret provides a full 360° rotation and can elevate up to 45°, allowing for versatile and effective firepower deployment."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2024_global_security_army_indus try/us-promised_m1117_armored_vehicles_are_now_in_service _with_ukrainian_army.html

Have a Happy St. Patrick's Day (Just a good legitimate day for a GOOD brew. :cheers:) because today internationally everyone is Irish and because he says so :sec: (Posted under duress this dude got a temper! OUCH!!! -see what I mean!?!)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Officially in service this month the M117 GUARDIAN 250 units completely refurbished from USA stocks.

It has...
"It is equipped with an advanced armor system from IBD Deisenroth Engineering, a German firm known for its modular expandable armor packages. This includes ceramic composite applique armor for the exterior and a spall liner for the interior, offering robust protection against small arms fire, mine blasts, and Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs). The vehicle can transport up to eight infantry soldiers."

and do you think all of those "up to eight infantry soldiers" would be all on the inside/ all on the outside of both?

They keep doing things the game cannot handle as protected under armour carry capacity or carry capacity outside on the hull is determined by unitclass. It's one or the other not both

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y87TN7gro50


"Hold on tight boys this is gonna get bumpy" ( FOR ALL 9 OF THEM )

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A team of 4 Commander, Driver, Gunner and 1 more internally.

UPDATE: Went back to review the Army Rec. ref. from my last post. I count 8 Ukrainian troops externally using hand and foot holds on the side of the vehicle. CARRY 012 (?)

These when first introduced were designed for MP and Security reasons.

The RECON role would come later.

The following is a post operational update on the M1117 GUARDIAN approved for public release in MAR. 21, 2001.

Pages 6-8 are pertinent to this discussion. I've "cherry picked" the following as they somewhat exceeded my expectations of this vehicle.

Page 6 Bottom:
"The vehicle provides protection from .50 caliber armor piercing rounds to the crew compartments and ammo storage areas.13 It provides airburst..."

Page 7 as it continues from "It provides airburst" as above: ..."protection from 60mm rounds at ten meters, and 155mm rounds at fifteen meters. Anti-tank mine protection is provided for up to twelve-pound blasts at each wheel and four pounds in the center of the vehicle." (That's really good for a vehicle of that size.)

Same Page in continuation:
"The vehicle mounts a fully enclosed Up Gunned Weapons Station (UGWS)
(Figure 3) 14 and is also referred to as the 40/50
turret." And...
"The M36E2 sight allows the gunner to engage targets at the MK19 maximum effective range of 2200 meters during day or night engagements. Turret improvements over the standard UGWS provide increased survivability and a reduced silhouette. Two banks of four electrically operated smoke grenade launchers are mounted on either side of the turret, firing forwards. "
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA387741.pdf

The history section starting on Page 20 I found very interesting especially on the British use of their LAV's in particular in OPS in N. Ireland.

Andy might find it interesting as I believe he served during the "Troubles".

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

A team of 4 Commander, Driver, Gunner and 1 more internally.

UPDATE: Went back to review the Army Rec. ref. from my last post. I count 8 Ukrainian troops externally using hand and foot holds on the side of the vehicle. CARRY 012 (?)
Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Count again. You forgot the guy on the front then there are four hanging off the left side and four more on the right side

It matters little either way. The Ukrainian version is getting a higher carry cap than any of the other nations that use it

I may give this unit it'S own formation and unitclass as it is ( so far ) only being used by 425th Assault Battalion and it appears NOT in a scouting capacity

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Missed that 9th guy, thought he was the gunner.

Regards,
Pat

[WilliamB]

I just ran across this on MSN, a new version of the Bradley equiped with the Iron Fist active protection system.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/the-u-s-army-just-unveiled-the-newest-version-of-its-combat-tested-bradley-ifv/ar-AA1o8T42?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=076c22a83e4c401ce1a03e613f3add05&ei=45

[MarkSheppard]

Sweden just announced a day or so ago that they're giving Ukraine all of their Pansarbandvagn 302 (pbv 302) APCs.

[DRG]

I was sure I had already put those into the UKR OOB but and put a guesstimate as to start date in Ukraine and end date in Sweden. The 302 adds another ammo type Ukraine does not use so guessing they might replace the 20mm AKAN with something else but I will wait and see with that but it APPEARS the 302 was the only vehicle left using that 20mm gun so their might be plenty of ammo to send along and we'll have to wait and see if the Ukrainians slap reactive bricks on the 302...

We'll also have to wait and see if "all" 302's means the EPbv 3022 FO as well..... guessing "probably"

https://www.government.se/press-releases/2024/05/military-support-package-16-to-ukraine--new-capability-to-strengthen-ukraines-air-defence-and-support-to-meet-its-prioritised-needs/

To further strengthen Ukraine’s air defence, the support package will also include the Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (RB 99-AMRAAM),

[DRG]

Polish Borsuk very early stage WIP

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17022&stc=1&d=1717966427

[DRG]

This is the second version with the corrected intake grill placement.

3X normal

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17025&stc=1&d=1718060169

Camo version

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17024&stc=1&d=1718036021

Desert version

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17026&stc=1&d=1718050944

Winter

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17027&stc=1&d=1718059873

[blazejos]

Borsuk and Rosomak 2 has unified turrent here is my interpretation of icons of this vehicle. I add here all icons also for various variants of rosomak which I made for future version of SPMBT so fell free to use them if will be suitable.

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17028&stc=1&d=1718118791

[cronos0738]

Nice work Blazejos.
Regarding the Borsuk, when should it enter service with the Polish forces?

[Mobhack]

Nice work Blazejos.
Regarding the Borsuk, when should it enter service with the Polish forces?

This tanknet thread is about the Polish kit, so may be worth a read?

https://www.tanknet.org/index.php?/topic/37523-polish-armoured-vehicles-and-their-modernizations/

It started in 2013, so wil be a long read:)!

[blazejos]

BWP Borsuk first mass produced vehicles will be introduced in 2024 but don't know when probably closer to end of the year.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/BWP_Borsuk_-_221114-Z-YU201-1007.jpg/300px-BWP_Borsuk_-_221114-Z-YU201-1007.jpg

Short movie with Borsuk during training
https://youtu.be/PVxJ7JgIANs

there are planed many variants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borsuk_(infantry_fighting_vehicle)

Borsuk - infantry fighting vehicle, equipped with the ZSSW-30 turret.
Oset - command vehicle.
Żuk - reconnaissance vehicle.
Gekon - armored recovery vehicle.
Ares - NBC reconnaissance vehicle.
Rak - 120mm self-propelled mortar.
Gotem - medical evacuation vehicle.
Jodła GTRI - Gąsienicowy Transporter Rozpoznania Inżynieryjnego, lit. tracked engineering reconnaissance transporter.
Jodła GTWI - Gąsienicowy Transporter Wojsk Inżynieryjnych, lit. tracked engineering transporter.
Jodła TMN - Transporter Minowania Narzutowego, lit. mine-scattering transporter. Meant to replace the IMS Kroton, its mine-scattering system will likely be based on that of the Baobab-K.
Jodła PTI - Pływający Transporter Inżynieryjny, lit. amphibious engineering transporter. Will replace the PTS-M, likely to be a completely new hull using Borsuk components.

Borsuk hs the same turret ZSSW-30 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZSSW-30 as so called Rosomak 2 correct name Rosomak ZSSW-30 they are in regular usage and production since December 2023. https://defence24-pl.translate.goog/wiadomosci/pierwsze-rosomaki-z-zssw-30-w-wojsku-polskim?_x_tr_sl=pl&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=pl&_x_tr_pto=wapp&_x_tr_hist=true

https://cdn.defence24.pl/2021/10/07/800x450px/RYc2od9LCMXZlh5shabJPijdChBN5uEqf2hbLMYY.pbem.webp

[DRG]

I plan to update the games Rosomak 2 turret to the one I built for the Borsuk before the update is released

[blazejos]

Slightly mentioning that ZSSW-30 is automatics turret without crew and without crew hatches on top of turret ;)

[DRG]

Slightly mentioning that ZSSW-30 is automatics turret without crew and without crew hatches on top of turret ;)

Ah ! I see now. The only photos I had found of it up to 5 minutes ago were not top down but I have a good one to work from now

https://armyrecognition.com/templates/yootheme/cache/37/Poland%20to%20sign%20major%20contracts%20for%20Ros omak%20APC%20fitted%20with%20new%20ZSSW-30%20turret%20001-37323dbf.jpeg

I will adjust accordingly

[blazejos]

That may be usefully Borsuk 3D model I used this when I draw this icons from post before ZZSW-30 is there. You can always use some parts of my icons if you draw your own version :o

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17032&stc=1&d=1718744041

[DRG]

V3

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17033&stc=1&d=1718751317

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17034&stc=1&d=1718751611

[DRG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bY05as-vA

Good video related to the French CT-40 cannon used by the Ajax which is claimed in this video to enter service this year ( we will wait and see......)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

See there has been discussion of the Polish BORSUK but not sure what the intentions are for a START Date. So, checking my "newspapers" before work and fresh for the press is the following which might alter the date.
"Unofficial sources have indicated to Defence24 that negotiations for the executive contract concerning the purchase of the first 159 Borsuk (Badger in English) infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) will begin in early August 2024. This procurement will cover the needs of two mechanized infantry battalions, each with 58 vehicles, plus additional vehicles for training purposes."

"Prototypes of the Borsuk began their first fire, endurance, and technical tests in September 2020, with the aim of delivering the first serial production vehicles by 2023/2024."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/poland-begins-negotiations-for-159-borsuk-infantry-fighting-vehicles
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/land-forces/polish-armed-forces-to-procure-the-first-borsuk-ifvs-exclusive

Obviously, that's not possible as the contractional process isn't completed. They'll probably not going to have enough to field a unit much before the end of 2025/OR early 2026.

Poland uses a multi-tier system in which the "executive contract" level will normally run for 2 to 4 levels before procurement of a system can begin.
"For instance, in the case of the Chunmoo Multiple Rocket Launcher System (MRLS), Hanwha Aerospace signed a framework contract and two executive contracts with the Polish Armaments Agency."
https://www.asdnews.com/news/defense/2024/04/29/hanwha-aerospace-signs-2nd-executive-contract-polish-multiple-rocket-launcher-system

I figured I'd better add something to "quantify" the numbers.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Mobhack]

Interesting, a bit of Nork kit I had no knowledge about, and apparently being used now by Russia in penny numbers?

https://www.twz.com/news-features/north-korean-anti-tank-missile-toting-vehicle-appears-to-be-operating-in-ukraine

Bulsae-4 - I wonder what versions 1-3 were, possibly the local name for the regular BRDM sagger, spandrel etc. units?.

An NLOS missile for the Norks? - whoda thunk it:D!

Edit - the "bulsae" name appears to be the missile name and not the carrier. I know it's wiki, but a starting point for research:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulsae_ATGM

So the name is for the missile and not the carrier vehicle. end edit

[DRG]

Now added to the Nork and Ork OOB's

[MarkSheppard]

https://i.imgur.com/c7qMZlG.jpeg
AFU VAB in Kursk with a cope cage set up.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Ukraine is to receive all 239 UNITS of SWEDENS PVB 302 APC's.

First:
SWEDEN/CHANGE/PVB 302/UNIT 054/CREW 3/END DEC 2014//

UKRAINE/ADD/PVB 302/COPY/SWEDEN/MODIFIED/PVB 302/UNIT 054/START AUG 2024// Will assume frontal protection to include against 20mm. The PVB 302 was updated as follows in series A, B and C (The final version to serve in the Swedish army and what the Ukraine will be getting. The "ArmyRec" website breaks each series down.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/overview-of-pbv-302-armored-vehicles-as-sweden-transfers-entire-fleet-to-ukraine
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukrainian-military-receives-50-volvo-powered-pbv-302-armored-vehicles/ar-AA1p71kG?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=de57a690b1dd4f8ebf1827766d68310b&ei=7
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/swedish-pbv-302-carriers-bolster-ukrainian-defense-in-tough-terrain/ar-AA1p6wxO?ocid=BingNewsSerp
https://www.government.se/press-releases/2024/05/military-support-package-16-to-ukraine--new-capability-to-strengthen-ukraines-air-defence-and-support-to-meet-its-prioritised-needs/

Don if you have questions leave them here. I won't be able to get to them until late tomorrow afternoon-late post tonight-NLW Classroom training starting at 0800 to last all day.

Shower time!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

On PVB 302 Ukraine I believe START/OCT 2024 might be a better date.

The DREGEN ref. I believe was confusing the "50" number with how many CV90 UNITS they have vice having received 50 PBV 302 UNITS.

The issue boils down to the timeline involved.

Sorry for the confusion now it's off to bed as the "REDMAN" NEVER SLEEPS.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/praisethesteph/status/1836416878798880821

The 🇺🇦#Ukrainian armed forces in the #Kursk Oblast have lost an interesting vehicle - it is an 🇺🇸#US-supplied M113A3 with a new Ukrainian-made manned turret with 12.7mm M2 Browning.

Many M113s delivered to Ukraine have either no protection for the gunner at all, or the gunner is too exposed to enemy fire in the original turret. This new turret protects the gunner from all directions, including from above.

[MarkSheppard]

https://defence-blog.com/us-army-buys-next-gen-bradley-fighting-vehicle/

The U.S. Army has finalized a contract modification with BAE Systems, valued at over $440 million, to produce more than 200 additional Bradley Fighting Vehicles, including M2A4E1 variants.

[DRG]

https://x.com/praisethesteph/status/1836416878798880821

The 🇺🇦#Ukrainian armed forces in the #Kursk Oblast have lost an interesting vehicle - it is an 🇺🇸#US-supplied M113A3 with a new Ukrainian-made manned turret with 12.7mm M2 Browning.

Many M113s delivered to Ukraine have either no protection for the gunner at all, or the gunner is too exposed to enemy fire in the original turret. This new turret protects the gunner from all directions, including from above.


Not quite the same but close
https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/24/13655_usa_supply_m113_armored_personnel.html

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/RyszardJonski/status/1848749456788730110

Lithuania purchases a battalion of Leopard 2A8 tanks and 2 battalions of CV90MkIV IFV vehicles.

The decisions were made today by the Lithuanian State Defense Council VGT /Valstybės Gynimo Taryboje/.

https://kam.lt/valstybes-gynimo-taryboje-svarbus-sprendimai-del-nacionalines-divizijos-sunkinimo-ir-lietuvos-paramos/

cc'ed from the MBT thread

[MarkSheppard]

Chinese have unveiled a NEW airborne IFV; seen at a "look at me I'm so important" meet with Hu Jintao as he inspects PLA Airborne Forces:

https://x.com/Nickatgreat1220/status/1853796390947934351

What's notable about it is that while we don't have full oblique views yet, we can see it has an active protection system from the sensors+projectile launchers on it.

[Blazing 88's]

Ukraine Approves the Oncilla-Shturm Armored Personnel Carrier for Military Use
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/ukraine_approves_the_oncilla_shturm_armored_person nel_carrier_for_military_use-12675.html

Equipped for mobility, protection, and firepower to meet the demands of combat.

[DRG]

now entered into the OOB

[DRG]

Someone here will know this

Which version of the Rosomak KTO is Ukraine getting??.... Is it the manned or unmanned turret version?

The info I found was conflicting. I suspect it's the manned turret or is it just the APC with no turret?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

From the licensed Polish manufacturer it's the HITFIST 30P turret crewed by two.

The first ref. supports this from 3 months ago also it's indicating the remote ZSSW-30 had just finished the first of its live firing tests at the time of the article. See the bottom 2 paras.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukrainian-forces-deploy-polish-rosomak-apcs-at-the-frontline/ar-AA1odbY5

Now to BUMAR-ŁABĘDY S.A. site...
https://bumar.gliwice.pl/en/strefa-militarna/o/wieza-bojowa-hitfist-do-kto-rosomak
(Note the PDF files at bottom.)

What is troubling was that there was no mention of the ZSSW-30 (Which will also have 2 SPIKE Medium distance launchers.) on the website as you'll see from where I pulled the above two refs from. Might still be in Manufactures or joint testing phase.

Off topic but confirms what some of us suspected and this has expanded since this news announcement was released to apparently include up to the T-84 OPLOT-M more recently.
https://bumar.gliwice.pl/en/news/pgz-i-ukrobronprom-wspolpracuja-przy-serwisie-sprzetu-pancernego

Will address the M-84 :doh: issue later in the MBT Thread.

I need to hit the rack!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: Almost forgot again saw the following while looking into something else, I can for sure say it's not the T-15.

I haven't had the time to take a hard look, but I believe it is a derivative of the T-80 tank. And it is new.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/new-mysterious-armored-vehicle-from-russia/vi-AA1u8tG4?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=ee8d79c7340b4a18a2a3284cc4c11f58&ei=30

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

USMC has reached a major milestone concerning the ACV.

The ACV last month conducted its first open-water amphibious movement at Kushi Crossing, Okinawa.

I feel with this accomplished that the FOC possibly occur ahead of the planned USMC FOC for some time in 2028.

I can see the potential for the ACV to reach FOC in the Summer/Fall of 2027 this is how important I feel this milestone is.

Needless to say, there will be more of these open-water amphibious operations to come in getting to the final "over the horizon" open-water amphibious operations which is what the current AAV has done since the 1970's.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/us-marines-amphibious-combat-vehicle-completes-first-open-water-amphibious-movement-in-japan

EDIT: Just found this and it is related to the above, also this shows progress towards FOC.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/c4isr/us-marine-corps-fields-acv-trainers

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The last link is borked

If anyone finds any more info about this let me know

https://www.kongsberg.com/newsroom/news-archive/2024/turret-delivers-firepower-to-u.s.-marine-corps

https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/landwarfareintl/kongsberg-awarded-329-million-for-turrets-for-acv-30s/

[scorpio_rocks]

"Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace has been awarded a $329 million contract to provide 175 Protector Remote Turret 20 systems for the U.S. Marine Corps’ Amphibious Combat Vehicle 30 (ACV-30). This acquisition is part of the ongoing effort to replace the aging AAV-7A1 vehicles. The RT-20 turret offers a modular design, advanced network capabilities, and remote wireless operation, improving operational flexibility. The ACV-30, with its 30mm remotely operated cannon, enhances amphibious combat capabilities. This modern platform supports multi-platform engagement and provides added internal space, boosting mobility and operational efficiency."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxZRRr66g70

includes some info on 3 different ACV variants and numbers ordered.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Fixed and tested x3 on last post. But just in case...
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/c4isr/us-marine-corps-fields-acv-trainers

Works here also x3.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

What appears to be in the USMC pipeline is the Amphibious Combat Vehicle 30mm (ACV-30) AND the Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle 30mm (ARV-30)

The ARV-30 is currently in the USMC OOB renationalised
I have added the ACV-30 in the USMC OOB also now renationalised until I get more info

So two entirely different vehicles named with one letter difference.
One is intended to replace the LAV the other the AAV-7

WONDERFUL idea naming them almost the same............what could possibly go wrong?


If anyone finds good data on how many troops each of of these things will carry and IF there is anything like a target date for introduction let me know..( PARTICULARLY the 30mm versions )

[DRG]

AI Overview

The Marine Corps' Advanced Reconnaissance Vehicle (ARV) is designed to transport five embarked Marines and a crew of two. The ARV is being developed to replace the Light Armored Vehicle (LAV)

:doh:

This may turn into just "so much fun" getting troops and formations to fit


EDIT....... I should go out and buy a lottery ticket. It looks like I only have to bend reality a tiny bit

[DRG]

Amphibious Combat Vehicle 30mm
3 Crew +8 Embarked Marines


At first glance it looks like MAYBE I might make this work with minimal "creativity"

That depends on how the 30mm versions are going to be organized with the "normal" ACV's but right now that is a total WAG

[DRG]

Fun.........

https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract/Article/3955652//

Kongsberg Defence & Aerospace, Kongsberg, Norway, is awarded a not-to-exceed $329,000,000 firm-fixed-price, undefinitized contract action for the procurement of 175 medium caliber cannon Protector Remote Turret 20, hereafter referred to as Turrets, for the Amphibious Combat Vehicle Medium Caliber Cannon (ACV-30) vehicles for Full Rate Production Lots 5 and 6. The Turrets procurement includes program management support; tooling development; associated turret hardware, interfaces and software; logistics management information data development; training materials development; technical manual development; and field service representative and training support for integration and fielding. The funding obligated at time of award will procure material and associated services only. The contract action will be definitized on or about Feb. 18, 2025. Work will be performed in Johnstown, Pennsylvania (100%), with an expected completion date of June 4, 2028.

Some of you have more experience reading US government contracts. IDK where Production Lots 5 and 6 fit into the overall schedule and when I should guess these MIGHT actually get into the USMC TO&E

[DRG]

I *THINK* I have a solution but how close it might be depends on the % of ACV-30's and regular ACV's

Right now I have a set up with one additional ACV-30 per ACV Coy which works out to 1:11 ratio

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Lots 5 & 6 would normally indicate that they were proceeded by Lots 1-4 in earlier contracts for the ACV systems.

Based on your ref submitted, I would think the first of these weapon systems would be rolling off the production line somewhere around mid-2026 to support weapons systems integration for the lot 5 & 6 ACV production line.

No where am I finding manning for ANY of the troop-carrying versions to be less than 3 Crew and the current USMC 13 personnel platoon.

This is accomplished because the weapons systems are mounted above the crew compartment forward of the troop compartment. All the weapons are remotely operated. You can easily see this in the videos and pictures as the troop compartment has a slightly raised roof section behind both the crew compartment and weapons station.

"The ACV threshold requirement for quantity of personnel
carried is 3 crewmen and 13 embarked infantry with full
combat loads, including 2 days of supply and combat essential
equipment. The ACV accommodated 3 crew and 13 embark
infantry. Due to the placement and number of blast mitigating
seats, interior space within the ACV is limited, making rapid
ingress and egress difficult" From ref 1 directly, but also in ref 2.
https://www.dote.osd.mil/Portals/97/pub/reports/FY2020/navy/2020acv.pdf?ver=AYnmVr-2qiW6qtmSDJ9FRA%3d%3d
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/weapons/IF11755.pdf

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The info I found and quoted in post #694 indicated the 30mm version had the same crew as the standard troop version but a capacity for only 8 troops

Of course I cut and pasted the info from the BAE link but not the link........... looking for it again now

Here it is
https://i.imgur.com/dqNbTan.png


I finally got the correct link

https://www.baesystems.com/en-media/uploadFile/20240205174438/1573690293920.pdf

[DRG]

https://www.textronsystems.com/products/cottonmouth

That is a 6 wheel vehicle with 2 Crew, 5 Embarked Marines
:doh:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That intro part of "over the horizon" sounds to me like its EW capability will also include anti-drone jamming/interference equipment as well.

Surveillance of the electronic type especially is as "broad spectrum" in meaning today as is the sensor equipment onboard a vehicle like this to carry out its EW mission.

This is clearly of a type of equipment that is a multi-tasker across the electronic spectrum in EW Ops.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

There is no doubt lessons learned from the Rus-Ukr war are being applied to vehicles in development

The interesting part will be jamming drone signals while keeping normal communications channels open

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

In short and at a very basic level the answer is no. Generally, these systems operate at different frequencies along with some other differences. Comms are going to a relay station which would primarily mean a satellite. Jamming is again generally focused to the horizon or just beyond up to 360 degrees or omni-direction all this (Less Comms) will be dependent on the equipment and more importantly the power supply.

In our world all our maps would easily be covered or limited to LOS depending on equipment.

The following will bring a little more clarification if needed and follows some of the training I've had up to the nonoperator status except for one piece of related equipment where I did have some basic operator training, I cannot and will not discuss here or anywhere. .
https://usafa-ece.github.io/ece315-book/block3/L37/ECE315_B3_L37_EW_Reading_23Su.html
(2 years old and relevant PLUS answers some questions the forum has asked in relation to flight ops as well. The principles are the same overall BUT obviously LOS is less of an issue here as is overall range.)
https://rhfv.org/electronic-warfare-ew-operations/
(At the bottom is what I said in the very beginning of the "Drone Rush" in at least one or more of my posts "For every "Counter" there is a "Counter Measure" we've demonstrated this (Don as well.) with the above tactics since WWII and Smart Munitions such as the video Don posted for the "SKY RANGER" I believe it was plus the GEPHART and other similar systems now using similar ammo.)
https://www.tonex.com/electronic-warfare-ew-faqs/
(Everything I've said in my posts.)
https://www.army-technology.com/buyers-guide/electronic-warfare-jamming-systems/
(This last talks a little more of the Drone issue. Order the FREE booklet if just for the purpose of seeing how prolific the industry (EW) is.)

Finally, my thoughts on this issue concerning these smaller drones... 1) I feel they are a "niche" item that sure is cool, however if you really take the time to read the above just maybe, you might want to rethink how good are they really?

2) If you put them in than I would say for every Drone there should be a countermeasure added-that's only fair.

3) We were hearing about these Drone attacks from the start almost daily. Where are they now? It's been months since I've seen even a video of them let alone the written word. Because the battlefield has mitigated them pretty much both physically (Cages etc.) or by EW. We had a very early example of this when the Russians not only jammed the Ukrainian cell phones but located where they were transmitting from and knocked out a BUNCH of their artillery and killed most of those gun crews. At least 75% of the Drones used (Might now be SLIGHTLY improved with unsophisticated EW.) store bought if you will.

4) Loitering munitions do hold my interest as do the larger Drones (Though being used primarily to attack infrastructure.) and UAV/ UCAV plus in the near future the RPA or RPV
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienroblin/2019/09/30/dont-just-call-them-drones-a-laypersons-guide-to-military-unmanned-systems-on-air-land-and-sea/.

5) Another Countermeasure they should be operation with us this year and everyone else won't be far behind or might already have them.
https://undark.org/2024/11/26/unleashed-autonomous-weapons/

6) Let's not forget all those handheld systems to include the shotgun which the Army and Marines have successfully tested.

7) APS: Isreal for instance has proven that "Iron Fist" can kill Drones out to 1.2Km/360 coverage. As noted less effective was "TROPHY" but they are looking into a modification of the launchers to improve this maybe by this year. Germany has also proven their ADS (We started testing of the supplemented ADS passive armor system for our armor in 2019/2020. Germany will have both for some of their armor but the tanks for now my understanding will have the passive armor addition plus TROPHY.)
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=german+military+active+protection+s ystem++for+armor&mid=B622F91CABA268865097B622F91CABA268865097&FORM=VIRE

8) The "slot cost" can't be cheap. We still have a lot of equipment in the "pipeline" that is the "core" of this game. Where are we going to put them?

We can Agree to Disagree but, I had to get this "off my chest"
and to be ABSOULTY CLEAR I'm not against Tech, just because (As I've stated in the past in regard to my privacy.) I don't own a Cell Phone doesn't mean I can't hold my own in discussing such varied topics such as "Ring Lasers" which I wish were fully operational in my day, oh well just shows "You can't have everything just maybe almost everything. " ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/i/bookmarks?post_id=1879892048993824997

1-17th Infantry "Buffaloes" becomes the 1st unit which received the new M1304 ICVVA1-30mm Stryker.

Vehicles are equipped with XM813 Bushmaster Chain Gun and new SIGHT-25HD sights.

https://i.imgur.com/9URcdlS.jpeg

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/ronkainen7k15/status/1879771418805837964

The first four M2A2 ODS IFVs refurbished at Djuro Djaković facility in Croatia were officially delivered to the Croatian Armed Forces yesterday. It's worth noting that the Croatian Bradley is a baseline ODS variant, equipped an Integrated Sight Unit (ISU) with 1Gen FLIR and ELRF.

Compared to the Ukrainian M2A2 ODS-SA, the Croatian M2A2 ODS lacks the Improved Bradley Acquisition Subsystem (IBAS) with a second-generation FLIR and stabilized head mirror, and also lacks the Driver's Vision Enhancer (DVE) mounted in the front of the hull.

https://i.imgur.com/5LWyRqZ.jpeg

Flat green paint, sad for no interesting camo scheme here.

[DRG]

For those of you who love digging up info I have a project for you.

Do ALL the German Boxers with the RCT30 turret come equipped with the Mell's ( Spike LR ) ATGM or just some vehicles. I have not been able to find the answer to that question

That's the big box hanging off the left side of the turret

https://www.defensenews.com/resizer/v2/6VKG2CFLZZCZ3NXDWJUOFHZ2KI.jpg?auth=04b28798b68a28 30c9f9bc8ce33c083f094085540c3c1d46916dfcf0327b2677&width=1024&height=575

[Pibwl]

Israel

071, 078, 098 Eitan IFV/APC - according to Polish monographic article from 11/2024 and Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eitan_AFV, APC were given to the first unit in 5/23 only (now 10/22), while IFV isn't in service yet.

[Pibwl]

Do ALL the German Boxers with the RCT30 turret come equipped with the Mell's ( Spike LR ) ATGM or just some vehicles. I have not been able to find the answer to that question


I'm not an expert on German army, but an article in Polish nTW 7/2022 about a modernization of German Army implies, that Boxers with Lance turrets with 30 mm cannon AND MELLS are going to replace Wiesels. There's no guarantee if all got them, but I would stick with such version as for now.

Also Marders were going to be modernized with MELLS.

[DRG]

The Wiesels were recently upgraded to use the Mells so they are not being replaced just yet

https://www.joint-forces.com/features/67572-mells-new-teeth-for-the-german-waffentrager-wiesel-1
https://www.joint-forces.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/00-WW1M-01.jpg

AND I have already upgraded the Marders

[DRG]

https://x.com/i/bookmarks?post_id=1879892048993824997

1-17th Infantry "Buffaloes" becomes the 1st unit which received the new M1304 ICVVA1-30mm Stryker.

Vehicles are equipped with XM813 Bushmaster Chain Gun and new SIGHT-25HD sights.



So these replace the Dragoon

The M1304 ICVVA1 Stryker is essentially a newer, upgraded version of the Stryker Dragoon, designed to address vulnerabilities identified in the Dragoon variant, particularly related to its ammunition storage configuration, and offering enhanced firepower with a 30mm cannon while maintaining the core Stryker platform; essentially, the ICVVA1 is meant to replace the Dragoon in the US Army inventory.

Are all existing Dragoons being retired ?

[Pibwl]

The Wiesels were recently upgraded to use the Mells so they are not being replaced just yet


It might concern Wiesels of aeromobile units, which weren't supposed to be replaced according to the article.

[DRG]

ALL Weisels in the game as Unitclass 175 no matter if they are cannon armed or missile armed are airmobile units
The UC123 Weisels are just apcs also airmobile

[DRG]

Does anyone know what the name of this Israeli vehicle is ?

https://static-cdn.toi-media.com/www/uploads/2025/01/AFP__20250125__36VZ7CH__v1__HighRes__PalestinianIs raelConflict-640x400.jpg

NEVERMIND....... found it

https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2019/israel-panther-new-multipurpose-armored-personnel-carrier-for-idf

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Concerning the BOXERS they are still going through the contract process or finishing it, they will be built in Australia as they are currently the only operators of them in the field finalizing their OPEVAL and they'll be building them there for Germany.

It'll be a while before Germany sees them but, they will with the extension of the game I estimate will be available by 2027-mid to 2028 mid.

For us when they do get them, it'll be a somewhat "easy" cut and paste from the Australian OOB to the German one.

This from my Australian Army source as I've posted already from concerning, their new ABRAMS M1A2 Export tanks we built for the (Think M1A2P/M1A2T.) game.

EDIT 270713 EST JAN 2025: For those that need it to supplement the "BOXER" discussion above. They are currently having recently gone into IOC status in Australia.
https://www.defence.gov.au/defence-activities/projects/combat-reconnaissance-vehicle
https://www.defenceconnect.com.au/major-programs/boxer-combat-reconnaissance-vehicle
(With "across the board" BOXER concerning updates for users like the UK along with CHALLENGER 3 both expected FOR SOME TIME IN 2030.)
"LAND 400 Phase 2 is scheduled to achieve final operational capability in 2027, after which the Rheinmetall workforce will be used to support sustainment, progressive development, and upgrades to the Boxer CRV from its local facility."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-23/army-unveils-new-boxer-vehicle-at-wide-bay-training-area/102130472

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Hosed this up-I added an UPDATED EDIT on the BOXER situation which allows for other updates of current users and "soon to be one" such as UK IN MY LAST POST.

Sorry-going back to bed-"dam" weather change and sinuses!?! :cold:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

.

EDIT 270713 EST JAN 2025]

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Pat you are going to have to explain

EDIT 270713 ??

And a bit more precise regarding the German Boxers I can assume a number of things but funny how that always gets me a post years from now about a correction.
IF you are referring to the Boxer RCT30 coming into German service then that is more helpful to me than just a generic " The boxers"

If you Google

Is the Boxer RCT30 in german service

The answer you will get is yes. They plan to procure 150 Boxer RCT30 but even a handful in service now gets them an entry in the OOB and I have no info that says even though they sent the arty support varient to Ukraine that these are the only ones in that subgroup in existance

[Pibwl]

Malaysia - minor tweaks:

030 PARS MCV
031 PARS APC MG
032 PARS APC AGL - are in fact local AV8 Gempita
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FNSS_Pars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DefTech_AV8

(not an APC, but I don't want to start a thread:
116 Starstreak LML - weapon is still less potent Starburst - should be copied from Britsh OOB)

(They use also Iglas, but without an exact variant nor date known, who cares...)

I won't be digging into light vehicles and vehicle-mounted light SAMs, listed in detail in Wikipedia (albeit without entry dates) ;)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

What I do know is that I in NO WAY enjoyed this last exercise. Not one bit.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


......pretty much describes every day I sit down in this chair these days.

[DRG]

https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/germanys-new-boxer-rct30-infantry-fighting-vehicle-could-soon-be-delivered-to-ukraine#:~:text=For%20instance%2C%20Germany%20plan s%20to,increased%20firepower%20in%20infantry%20bri gades.


Germany plans to procure 150 Boxer RCT30 vehicles to equip its "Medium Forces" grenadier units.

https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/exclusive-germany-confirms-delivery-of-nine-boxer-rct30-ifvs-to-defend-ukraines-artillery-from-russian-drones

Germany plans to procure 150 Boxer RCT30 units by 2029 to modernize its Medium Forces grenadier units, as well as 123 Boxer sWaTrgInf Heavy Weapons Carriers.

They exist and may be in Ukraine now or at least soon. It is unlikely every one in existance is going to Ukraine

Has there been a big parade marking their full acceptance ?
No.

Does it mean they are rolling through the backroads of Germany
No

The bottom line is it is likey all that exist are not going to Ukraine for "advanced evaluation" and while I could leave them out until more info is found the chances of me adjusting in service dates in 3 years is just about minus zero so they are going in with a guesstimate date. Because unless they go to Ukraine and a glaring issue is going keep it from being produced further it's going to be part of the German inventory sometime in the next 2-3 years. The vehicle platform and the turret are both proven and tested

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I just wanted to make sure you had all the data I already had and more to make the best decision possible for a date.

The only concern I have is that based on the Australian CRV is if the German AIFV will match it in regard to the FCS and TI/GSR. Remember one of the refs from my last as noted was that the Germans were evaluating the CRV in Australia.

The FCS is very advanced and the numbers should reflect this if not already. Also, from what I've read my opinion is that the TI/GSR should be 60.

Both will use all the ammo available for these vehicles.

We basically had the same issue with the OPLOT-M difference from now was the roles were "reversed" and it ended up being the right call.

For what it's worth, I have no further issue with the German BOXER AIFV.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

For now I have them in for mid 2026 but that may change by the time we finally get this final release done.

We have the Extension OOB's for USA and Russia working now as those were the only OOB's that were critically close to being full. Ukraine was filling up fast but it's not even close to critical and I suspect the flurry of new units added will end "soonish"

The code changes needed to give the SP arty systems capable of accurate move and shoot are in progress now, which, if all goes well, will allow an on-map SP arty system capable of holding target lock after firing and moving to do so in the game. Basically, it means adjusting the code that prevented that from happening since the original SP2 code was written to be modified so that code is circumvented if a trigger is found in the unit OOB.

[MarkSheppard]

https://www.mod.gov.lv/en/news/latvia-signs-373-million-euro-procurement-contract-42-ascod-infantry-fighting-vehicles

On Thursday, January 30, Latvian National Armaments Director Major General Andis Dilāns and the Vice President of the Spanish company “General Dynamics European Land Systems - Santa Bárbara Sistemas” Alejandro Page Hernandez signed a 373 million euro contract to procure 42 “ASCOD” infantry fighting vehicles for the Latvian National Armed Forces.

[DRG]

https://www.mod.gov.lv/en/news/latvia-signs-373-million-euro-procurement-contract-42-ascod-infantry-fighting-vehicles

On Thursday, January 30, Latvian National Armaments Director Major General Andis Dilāns and the Vice President of the Spanish company “General Dynamics European Land Systems - Santa Bárbara Sistemas” Alejandro Page Hernandez signed a 373 million euro contract to procure 42 “ASCOD” infantry fighting vehicles for the Latvian National Armed Forces.

As interesting as this is maybe a decade or more ago if this re-armament in the Baltic states had occurred, we MIGHT have considered creating a Baltic States OOB to mirror the Gulf States OOB but that "ain't gonna happen" now so I would request to everyone to keep posts about weapon procurements confined to the OOB's actually in the game

In a perfect world we would have non OOB flags for scenario designers to use in building hypothetical scenarios for nations like Latvia but you all may have noticed we don't live in a "perfect world" and as much as I think it would be a good idea I can say with 100% certainty that "ain't gonna happen" either

Not to mention the fact that there is not exactly a glut of new scenarios being produced

So ( for everyone ) save yourself time and effort and keep posts regarding new weapons and vehicles to nations covered by the game please

[Pibwl]

Slovakia

I've found a Polish 2024 article on Slovak BMPs. In Slovakia they are designated BVP-1/2 (units 22, 23) (as in Czechoslovak oob)

022 BMP-1 - BVP-1 were used at least until 2022, when they gave it to Ukraine (however it is not clear, if their last BMP-1 were given, or rather last ones from a batch of 30 vehicles...)
https://defence-blog.com/slovakia-confirms-bvp-1-fighting-vehicle-delivery-to-ukraine/
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/slovak_defense_minister_says_slovakia_sent_over_30 _bmp_1_ifv_to_ukraine-4991.html

025 BMP-1D Cobra - Cobra turret didn't enter production eventually (https://armoredwarfare.com/en/news/general/development-ot-64-cobra )
However, since 2018 there were delivered different modernized BVP-M https://kotadef.sk/projekty/bvp-m/?lang=en
It has the same 30 mm cannon and PKT CMG and Konkurs missiles, but only 2.
Crew is 3+7 - however I don't know, if the commander of the vehicle stays with it or disembarks as the 8th soldier - it might be 2+8 to fit a section.
There is a modern FC system with laser RF, and the commander has a thermal observation sight. It has a laser detection system and SD.

015 BRM-1 - there is no information if Soviet BRM-1, bought in a small number by Czechoslovakia, were ever used in Slovakia - however, 58 of Czechoslovak equivalent BPzV Svatava were used (unit 404 in Czechoslovak oob).
Should be modified accordingly (lbm 8017, more ammo: 38/38, added #145 Malutka launcher with 7 missiles, 3 SD). Speed should be 22.
Crew should be 3+3 (fits 3-men Scout section in Slovak OOB)

Both this and Czechoslovak 404 BPzV should however have 1700 icon, since it had original 1-man BMP-1 turret.

Along with BVP-M there were modernized recce vehicles introduced by 2017: BPsV-I. It has the same specifications and armament as BVP-M, but the crew is 3+1 (with an option of fitting additional two seats, so it can take 3-men scout section)

BMP-1/2

BTW: I've noticed, that BMP-1/2 and BRM-1 in Soviet OOBs are size 3, while most in other OOBs are size 4. I guess all should be 3 for a cosistency (and they were quite low, especially comparing to Bradley).
Also, some BMP-2s have speed 24, while it should be 22 like BMP-1 (and like in Soviet OOB)

Units with incorrect size 4 (and/or speed 24)

Slovak OOB:
015 - BRM-1 (to be replaced by BPzV)
022 - BMP-1
023 - BMP-2
024 - OT-90
025 - BMP-1D Cobra (to be replaced by BVP-1)

Czechoslovak OOB:
064 - BVP-1
065 - BVP-2
066 - OT-90
079 - OT-90M2

Poland:
063 - BWP-1m
064 - BWP-1
065 - BWP-1
404 - BWR-1D
676 - BWP-2 (speed only, size is 3)

East Germany
063 - SPZ BMP-1
064 - SPZ BMP-1
065 - SPZ BMP-1P
066 - SPZ BMP-1P
129 - SPZ BMP-2
574, 575 - BRM-1 (these two too fast only... BTW , I can't see a practical difference between them. However, being Soviet BRM-1, they should have BMP-2 icon with a bigger turret)

Ukraine
329 BWP-1 - Polish-delivered, should be in a camouflage 3474. It may be assumed, that vehicles with modern radios 90 and vision 30 were given. Or at least they should be.

Bulgaria
063,064,065 - BMP-1
BMP-23 is a different and bigger domestic machine

Romania
uses only own BMP clones MLI-84, size 3 is correct and speed 24 more or less so (reportedly they drive 70 km/h, although 23 might be more appropriate)

China
056 - Type 86 IFV (Chinese clone)
063 - Type 86-I IFV (size 4 is justified by a high turret in this case?)
727 - Type 86G IFV

Sweden
056 Pbv 501

I didn't check other nations using BMP-1/2 under original names.

[Pibwl]

Slovakia still:

Bought Patria AMV XP wheeled IFVs, named BOV locally. Armed with the same Turra-30 turret as BVP-M, although the gun was designated GTS-30/N and fit to fire NATO 30x173mm rounds.
The first were received in 7/24, although probably it takes some time until the first unit is ready.
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/slovakia-receives-first-bov-8x8-ifv-based-on-finlands-patria-amv-xp
https://defence-blog.com/slovakia-unveils-first-bov-8x8-fighting-vehicle/

I believe Polish 686 Rosomak might serve as a pattern, with green 3541 icon. Armour level should be similar, since the Slovak vehicle also has water screws (Polish uparmoured Rosomaks M1 lost floating capability)

By the end of 2025 there are expected first CV90 Mk IV, armed with 35 mm autocannon, Spike-LR and Iron Fist active protection system.
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/slovakia-to-receive-first-cv90-mk-iv-infantry-fighting-vehicle-to-strengthen-mechanized-brigade

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I thought the Polish Borsuk IFV was pretty much a done deal until I just pulled this from my email while checking it for the day.

Apparently, it isn't the initial contract is not even signed and there's this...
"Paweł Bejda stated that various foreign designs are currently under consideration, including those from South Korea, Germany, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States. At this stage, however, it is too early to identify a frontrunner."

The article does state that... "the Ministry of Defense (MON) expects the contract to be signed not within months or weeks, but within days."

I've discussed the Polish contract workings last Summer (Late.) in another post where the Executive approval process can go up to 3 to 5 levels before the final approval to procure or order additional equipment can go ahead. As the article states the above hasn't yet completed the first level yet.
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/land-forces/borsuk-ifv-procurement-contract-imminent-competitors-for-heavy-ifv?utm_source=newsletter%20&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=defencecom&__ca__chat=tbtl2wsjbhyq

I'm a regular subscriber on this site for disclosure.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I thought the Polish Borsuk IFV was pretty much a done deal until I just pulled this from my email while checking it for the day.

Apparently, it isn't the initial contract is not even signed and there's this...
"Paweł Bejda stated that various foreign designs are currently under consideration, including those from South Korea, Germany, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States. At this stage, however, it is too early to identify a frontrunner."

The article does state that... "the Ministry of Defense (MON) expects the contract to be signed not within months or weeks, but within days."

I've discussed the Polish contract workings last Summer (Late.) in another post where the Executive approval process can go up to 3 to 5 levels before the final approval to procure or order additional equipment can go ahead. As the article states the above hasn't yet completed the first level yet.
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/land-forces/borsuk-ifv-procurement-contract-imminent-competitors-for-heavy-ifv?utm_source=newsletter%20&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=defencecom&__ca__chat=tbtl2wsjbhyq

I'm a regular subscriber on this site for disclosure.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

So they don't have any at all ?

I checked a couple of other websites and found a lot of vague info but nothing to even indicate when some might actually be ready aside from a few prototypes Wiki gives contradictory into saying "The first IFVs are expected to be delivered in 2024" then later "Negotiations for an initial contract of 159 vehicles are ongoing"

I'm going to go with a WAG of 3/26

[Pibwl]

You should have asked me ;)
I haven't even mentioned Borsuk, since there is no chance of any in 2025. Hopefully in 2026.
If it is needed, I can research its specifications. The armour is obviously a secret, but AFAIR Polish expert J. Wolski claimed, that in spite of its lightness and floating capability, it offers very high degree of protection for its weight.

[DRG]

Here a project for somebody

Vietnam is listed as a former operator of the M113
When did they retire the ones they captured after the fall of Saigon?

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/vietnam/army-equipment.htm

Does not show them after 2020 but they don't show any APC past 2020

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This might help but, my concern is that army recognition site doesn't list Vietnam having such as the BTR-60PB/70 I'm providing that site as well.

Concerning the BTR-60PB there might be some "wiggle room" there based on how they described the Country User (CU) section as saying "Currently, the BTR-60PB is in service with the Russian army and many countries over the world."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/armoured-personnel-carriers/wheeled-vehicles/btr-60pb-russia-uk

As opposed to this for the BTR-70 as referred to by one of the first two refs of them having also. From the CU section in alpha order
"Country users
Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Lithuania, Mali, Macedonia, Moldovia, Nepal, Pakistan, Romania, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/armoured-personnel-carriers/wheeled-vehicles/btr-70-russia-uk

The FIRST TWO refs.
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/vietnam
https://totalmilitaryinsight.com/vietnam-peoples-army-equipment/

As noted above.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/armoured-personnel-carriers
(Click on Left to access the other equipment categories. The listings seem to have a good amount of information and a listing of in the TANK section of Cold War era ones as well if it is felt any might be worth revisiting.)

Yesterday we were given the GIFT of receiving our 1st Great Grand in this daughter!! :D

That was the BEST news of the day after finding out when I got to work a very good friend of mine from passed away the same day. He was a co-worker and 30-year veteran of the USMC.

When very young my grandmother :angel: once on the way to mass after hearing similar news said something along the lines of "Sometimes the Lord takes one (Life) to give one (Life)".

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Yesterday we were given the GIFT of receiving our 1st Great Grand in this daughter!! :D

That was the BEST news of the day after finding out when I got to work a very good friend of mine from passed away the same day. He was a co-worker and 30-year veteran of the USMC.

Sometimes life does toss those kind of wildly divergent to-good / too bad events at the same time.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It's about time that FINALLY we've got an update I just found for AJAX/ARIES APC as it's been a while since I last posted a couple from MOD/Parliament last year.

Unfortunately, it fully supports what I already have posted from the MOD/Parliament websites. But this not a bad thing as it shows the project is on track and there is a uniformed message from MOD/Parliament and GDLS UK.

From the ref. which is quoting from MOD and Industry...
"GDLS UK and the British Army plan to achieve IOC in the second half of 2025, with the first Ajax squadron ready to be deployed and capable of sustaining operations for up to six months. Following this, the next steps will include integrating Ajax into the Armoured Cavalry Battle Group, then into the Recce Strike Brigade Combat Team by 2026-27. Full Operational Capability (FOC) is expected to be achieved between October 2028 and September 2029, marking the completion of training and conversion of all units to the Ajax platform."

AJAX/APR 2029/MAYBE//

I would expect ARIES sooner by a year or two as my best guess.

If the AJAX FOC holds, the CVR (T) and to give us a "cushion" should have... CVR (T)/END/DEC 2029/ALL UNITS. //

The "message" has been consistent now for about 2 years concerning the dates. After the "noise" issue and as I found and posted why the UK was, I'm sorry to say so "STUPID" to modify their main gun is beyond comprehension.

I'm sure in a backroom somewhere the French are having a "good laugh" as their JAGUAR got fielded the end of last Fall I believe it was.

The French built the JAGUAR "around" their gun however, the UK basically did the opposite. But history back to WWII has shown they weren't the first and won't be the last to make that mistake.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/analysis-defense-and-security-industry/additional-information-on-british-armoured-vehicle-ajax-unveiled-by-gdls-uk

Time for the annual Navy wide game of "How good is your Security?"

I better get some sleep!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

"GDLS UK and the British Army plan to achieve IOC in the second half of 2025 with the first Ajax squadron ready to be deployed and capable of sustaining operations for up to six months. ],

THAT is all that interests me ATM

[DRG]

If anyone finds a top down photo of the KONGSBERG MCT-30 Turret used on the USMC ACV-30 post the link here please
Thanks
Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, we're still waiting for the ACV to go into full rate production and "DOGE" will be visiting the DOD very soon.

That being said KONGSBERG just signed the contract at the end of NOV. 2024 that will allow them to start building MCT-30 turrets to start soon so they'll have enough in stock for the ACV when the production starts for that configuration.

These might help if used in conjunction.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=qGW2TZPI&id=F17D44BAF7BD05B255C893194F17D2667D6CBD8B&thid=OIP.qGW2TZPIZPeEMQlh65QvRgHaFe&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalsecurity.org%2Fmi litary%2Fsystems%2Fground%2Fimages%2Fm1296-image04.jpg&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.a86 5b64d93c864f784310961eb942f46%3Frik%3Di71sfWbSF08Z kw%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=591&expw=800&q=mct-30+turret+images&simid=608045723803411789&FORM=IRPRST&ck=D165D3AB6F5F345435EE6F77F0271ED6&selectedIndex=141&itb=0&cw=2255&ch=1161&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=gh5572qE&id=9E2B5536BADC85ED1A0681DA6FE083E422833804&thid=OIP.gh5572qEW95inlyvvRbLQgHaFZ&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fic.pics.livejournal.com%2Fa ndrej_kraft%2F39228000%2F1426009%2F1426009_600.jpg&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.821 e79ef6a845bde629e5cafbd16cb42%3Frik%3DBDiDIuSD4G%2 52fagQ%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=437&expw=600&q=Kongsberg+MCT+30&simid=607986401707754056&FORM=IRPRST&ck=98068CE2B6EA2CF46D7AB6E1698ED814&selectedIndex=213&itb=0&cw=2255&ch=1161&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

That was over an hour NOT well spent. Pictures were JPEG and the right size couple would open (In post.) added another save and nothing would open in the post. Stopped when I was approaching the axiom "...expecting different result" :cold: Things aren't working like they used to.

Hope it helps. And no not even checking after I've saved this.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

It's better than I found. What I needed was to see if there were obvious access hatches on the roof and where they were and if I added them would anyone notice

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Not a problem. I have as in the NEMO movie have a site that the Seagulls would refer to as Its - "MINE, MINE MINE" well they are afterall Seagulls and it's what they do.

I'll give it a check if I find it you'll recognize from the past. It's another tool in my box I sometimes use when I'm thinking "too hard" on the numbers, an "arbitrator" if you will.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

blueprint.com appears to be dead concerning my last post. That's too bad as they had a "robust" selection of military blueprints.

The Polish government has at 1100 27 March 2025 signed the "EXECUTION" part of the contract after years of delays.

The importance of that is now/soon they can start serial production of the BORSUK IFV.

There also a bit of force structure info in this ref. as well.
https://defence24.com/armed-forces/finally-the-borsuk-ifv-execution-contract-signed?utm_source=newsletter%20&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=defencecom&__ca__chat=tbtl2wsjbhyq

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat

There are some here, but it does not appear to be as extensive a collection as found in the past

https://drawingdatabase.com/category/vehicles/military/

That site does not have a Borsuk but one can be found

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borsuk_(infantry_fighting_vehicle)#/media/File:BWP_Borsuk_3-view.svg

And that blueprint is "good enough" to produce a viable game Icon from......but I already have one "good enough"

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17197&stc=1&d=1743594818

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
That looks really good!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Don,
That looks really good!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

It should with 27 years experience:D BUT that was done before all of the annoying nasty slip / fall / concussion stuff occurred and I have not yet attempted a new Icon from scratch so I have NO IDEA how a new one would go

It is MAYBE a bit too wide but at that scale one pixel can change too wide to too narrow and also that is at 200% so twice the size it will be in the game

EDIT: It is "close enough"
The width to scale works out to 22 pixels, which is what it should be
Actual Width: 3.4 meters (11 ft 2 in) ( 22 pixels )
The length is "good enough" as well but its 50 pixels
and should be 49

Actual Length: 7.6 meters (24 ft 11 in) = (49 pixels) but that may be because I used dimensions from a different source

But save any cheering for a new one

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Iraqi War era Bradley ODAS rated better by Russians than their BMP-3. Short but informative.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-report-confirms-m2a2-bradley-outshines-bmp-3-in-ukraine/ar-AA1CrT3X?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm hoping not to regret this but as some know how I work that I make recommendations based on the data but also take into consideration factors of what's going on around a country "Sphere of Influence" and basically Europe is as close to being on a "War Footing" now not seen since the Cold War.

I also every week on CSPAN watch the "Prime Ministers Questions" this "exercise" is also driving my thinking at the moment.

Don I would think at this point will be happy with the following but, he knows well I don't make these decisions lightly at all.

I've tracked this ever since a program called FRES SV was started (Which also recommended the BOXER as well which the UK will be procuring by games end.)

Let's look at the numbers as they currently stand first this includes all 6 variants. And remember AJAX is the Program name.

As of January, this year JANES reported there were 50 total units for IOC that the Army has.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/land/iav-2025-british-armys-ajax-afv-to-reach-ioc-by-end-of-2025

The next ref. dated 6 April is now showing the Army has now 91 units for IOC. That's plus 41 units of all types in 3 months with priority I'm given to AJAX and ARES.
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-03-17/hl5829
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/exclusive-uk-ministry-of-defense-confirms-delivery-of-91-new-ajax-reconnaissance-armored-vehicles-to-british-army

So, by Oct. this year another 80/85 units should be in the Armies hands.

So...
GREAT BRITAIN (GB)/CHANGE/AJAX/UNIT 602/START/OCT 2025/VICE/JAN 2025/TI/GSR 55 OR 60/VICE/45/FOC 40/VICE/35/STEEL/INCREASE BY +10 - +15% MAX/HEAT/INCREASE BY +10 - +15% MAX. // The AJAX program OVERALL is at least 5-6 years or more behind schedule for FIELDING. I've well documented all this for years now to include the original FRES SV Program. However, GB was watching the world and realized they needed to improve the combat effectiveness of AJAX in general as submitted above. A new Applique add-on armor was developed with protection extended to HEAT as well. I know it's already been covered within this Thread. This writeup applies to ARES as well. I thought but not sure that they both might now have APS OR will soon get it.

GREAT BRITAIN (GB)/CHANGE/ARES/UNITS 908-910/START/OCT 2025/VICE/FEB 2023/TI/GSR 40/VICE/VISION 30/WEAPONS/RWS OPTIONS BELOW FROM REFS/FOC & STABILZER/YOUR CALL/STEEL/INCREASE BY +10 - +15% MAX/HEAT/INCREASE BY +10 - +15% MAX. //WEAPONS 1. "...Kongsberg Protector Remote Weapon Station armed with a 12.7mm machine gun. The turret features a Detached Line of Sight (DLOS) that allows the gunner to maintain focus on the target, regardless of the ballistic solution for the weapon/ammunition in use. The turret also houses a thermal imager with a dual field of view and a color daylight camera that provides a wide field of view up to 45 degrees during observation, and more than 30 times optical magnified close-up view of the target area during identification and engagement of a long-distance target."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/analysis-discovering-ares-next-generation-apc-armored-personnel-carrier-for-british-reconnaissance-units


WEAPON 2. "The Ares is also equipped with a remote-controlled 7.62 mm machine gun, offering a defensive capability against various ground and air threats."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/british-ares-vehicle-showcased-during-outdoor-demonstration-in-united-kingdom

IMPORTANT REMINDER:
ARES initially escaped any earlier testing as the focus was on AJAX. However, the multiple issues of AJAX the attention shifted to ARES and was discovered to be suffering from many of the same problems minus the weapons system of AJAX. Also, WELL COVERED.

I HOPE LATER IN THE MORNING "SOMEONE" DOESN'T ASK "WHAT TIME DID YOU COME TO BED?"

If so that "SONIC BOOM" you just heard was NOT from a jet fighter flying directly over your house but me being LAUNCHED to the ISS!! :shock: & :eek:!!

Regard's,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I'm hoping not to regret this but as some know how I work that I make recommendations based on the data but also take into consideration factors of what's going on around a country "Sphere of Influence" and basically Europe is as close to being on a "War Footing" now not seen since the Cold War.

I also every week on CSPAN WATCH THE "Prime Ministers Questions" this exercise is also driving my thinking at the moment.

Don I would think at this point will be happy with the following but, he knows well I don't make these decisions lightly at all.

I've tracked this ever since a program called FRES SV was started (Which also recommended the BOXER as well which the UK will be procuring by games end.)

Let's look at the numbers as they currently stand first this includes all 6 variants. And remember AJAX is the Program name.

As of January, this year JANES reported there were 50 total units for IOC that the Army has.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/land/iav-2025-british-armys-ajax-afv-to-reach-ioc-by-end-of-2025

The next ref. dated 6 April is now showing the Army has now 91 units for IOC. That's plus 41 units of all types in 3 months with priority I'm given to AJAX and ARES.
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-03-17/hl5829
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/exclusive-uk-ministry-of-defense-confirms-delivery-of-91-new-ajax-reconnaissance-armored-vehicles-to-british-army

So, by Oct. this year another 80/85 units should be in the Armies hands.

So...
GREAT BRITAIN (GB)/CHANGE/AJAX/UNIT 602/START/OCT 2025/VICE/JAN 2025/TI/GSR 55 OR 60/VICE/45/FOC 40/VICE/35/STEEL/GROTIUS +10/+15% MAX/HEAT/GROTIUS +10/+15%. // The AJAX program OVERALL is at least 5-6 years or more behind schedule for FIELDING. I've well documented all this for years now to include the original FRES SV Program. However, GB was watching the world and realized they needed to improve the combat effectiveness of AJAX in general as submitted above. A new Applique add-on armor was developed with protection extended to HEAT as well. I know it's already been covered within this Thread. This writeup applies to ARES as well. I thought but not sure that they both might now have APS OR will soon get it.

GREAT BRITAIN (GB)/CHANGE/ARES/UNITS 908-910/START/OCT 2025/VICE/FEB 2023/TI/GSR 40/VICE/VISION/30/WEAPONS/RWS OPTIONS BELOW FROM REFS/FOC & STABILZER/YOUR CALL GETTING VERY LATE HERE./STEEL/GROTIUS +10/+15% MAX/HEAT/GROTIUS +10/+15%. //WEAPONS 1. "...Kongsberg Protector Remote Weapon Station armed with a 12.7mm machine gun. The turret features a Detached Line of Sight (DLOS) that allows the gunner to maintain focus on the target, regardless of the ballistic solution for the weapon/ammunition in use. The turret also houses a thermal imager with a dual field of view and a color daylight camera that provides a wide field of view up to 45 degrees during observation, and more than 30 times optical magnified close-up view of the target area during identification and engagement of a long-distance target."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/analysis-discovering-ares-next-generation-apc-armored-personnel-carrier-for-british-reconnaissance-units


WEAPON 2. "The Ares is also equipped with a remote-controlled 7.62 mm machine gun, offering a defensive capability against various ground and air threats."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/british-ares-vehicle-showcased-during-outdoor-demonstration-in-united-kingdom

IMPORTANT REMINDER:
ARES initially[/B] escaped any earlier testing as the focus was on AJAX. However, the multiple issues of AJAX the attention shifted to ARES and was discovered to be suffering from many of the same problems minus the weapons system of AJAX. Also, WELL COVERED.

I HOPE LATER IN THE MORNING "SOMEONE" DOESN'T ASK "WHAT TIME DID YOU COME TO BED?"

If so that "SONIC BOOM" you just heard was NOT from a jet fighter flying directly over your house but me being LAUNCHED to the ISS!! :shock: & :eek:!!

Regard's,
Pat
:capt:


Pat--------- Make this make sense please

STEEL/GROTIUS +10/+15% MAX/HEAT/GROTIUS +10/+15%. //[/B

I am having trouble figuring out WTF "GROTIUS" is..... I KNOW FOR CERTAIN it's not ...

"Hugo Grotius also known as Hugo de Groot or Huig de Groot was a Dutch humanist, diplomat, lawyer, theologian, jurist, statesman, poet and playwright." AND THAT IS ALL THAT APPEARS WHEN "GROTIUS" is GOOGLED

[DRG]

Pat....... BE ADVISED


GREAT BRITAIN (GB)/CHANGE/ARES/UNITS 908-910/START/OCT 2025/VICE/FEB 2023/TI/GSR 40/VICE/VISION/30/WEAPONS/RWS OPTIONS BELOW FROM REFS/FOC & STABILZER/YOUR CALL GETTING VERY LATE HERE./STEEL/GROTIUS +10/+15% MAX/HEAT/GROTIUS +10/+15%. //WEAPONS 1. ".ETC ETC ETC


IS A PITA TO READ AND SORT OUT

PLEASE find a better way of presenting information like that. The example above is no longer acceptable.

MAYBE not post after 1 am and DEFINATLEY NEVER AGAIN at 3:51 AM ?

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Sorry "Gratis" was the word I was seeking.

I guess "Increase by..." would've been much better.

There is little information out there except the AJAX family of vehicles was getting a "new" type of Applique Armor which is why I gave the percentages vice specific numbers.

We have discussed this practice in the past and have used it to mark such an improvement until further information was available.

Also, improvements were made to the side skirts as well most likely linked with the Applique Armor also.

Sorry for the "Muck Up" and I have to GO NOW!!!

CAME BACK TO SAY JUST FIXED THIS IN MY LAST POST SHOULD READ BETTER NOW.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Sorry "Gratis" was the word I was seeking.

I guess " Increase by..." would've been much better.t:

YES Pat......"Increase by..." WOULD have been MUCH more clear

Gratis makes about as much sense as GROTIUS

Pat........ NO MORE like the ones you posted for the Ajax and Aries unless you want to read "WTF is that supposed to mean?" over and over

OK?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Again, backed off the FOC issue that I'll "Fall on my Sword" for normally because of the talk that the UK & France might be sending "Peacekeepers" into the Ukraine. Refer to Post 742 above for dates as now submitted.

This talk has abated somewhat in the last week or two and I might have last Wednesdays "Prime Ministers Questions" to watch tonight or Tue. for any update on that issue.

Come what may, the following ref again is reporting the latest (And unchanged.) IOC and FOC as I've been posting.

To be CLEAR I defer to Dons judgement on those dates as the situation progresses.

With that out of the way for the last time, I'm posting the following as being more about WHO is getting them vice when.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/general-dynamics-uk-delivers-100th-ajax-armoured-fighting-vehicle-to-support-british-army-modernisation
(Good refresher on Project and you'll understand why Don and I have been "chasing" this for so long.)
"Full Operating Capability (FOC) is currently expected between October 2028 and September 2029, when all necessary training and conversions are scheduled to be completed."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/three-british-army-cavalry-regiments-and-three-tank-reconnaissance-troops-to-field-new-ajax-vehicles
(Somewhat of a rehash of the above.)

A couple of MBT side notes:

1. I can CONFIRM that Australia will be holding on to a Companies worth of their M1A1 tanks until our "Export" M1A2C is fully integrated into the ARA. The rest should be in the Ukraine at this time.

2. K2 and K8O8 APC going to Peru tracking.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/from-soviet-era-t-55-to-south-korean-k2-peru-becomes-a-rising-tank-power-in-south-america

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[zovs66]

Here is something new NK new tank.

https://armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/defence-security-industry-technology/exclusive-north-korea-unveils-enhanced-cheonma-2-tank-competing-with-modern-main-battle-tanks

[DRG]

I forget when that was added to the game ......but it is:D


<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/LIHVOl2" data-context="false" ><a href="//imgur.com/a/LIHVOl2"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
I'm thinking last year sometime maybe during or after March 2024.

Edit: Went back to bounce your START against mine when :doh: I realized there's your timeline-MAYBE. :shock:

I would refer you to the following:
MBT Thread/Page 177/Posts 1764-1769/First I believe was on March 11th.

It's the same tank as you have it in the game now.

Your tank as you built it is a difference of "pennies away" from my numbers for the same after I checked my notes.

Sometimes great minds come together. :D

As the "experts" were saying it's no match against either the K1A2 (My thought.) or more precisely the K2 specifically.

Pat
:capt: