Grenade Launchers

[Imp]

Anybody use them out of choice?
In game terms closest thing probably a HMG
Both penetration of 1 & area weapons but HMG is more accurate & has a decent ammo supply, admitedly the GL does hurt more.
MMG much the same but generaly no penetration & tends for me to be the support weapon of choice as more mobile making getting in position undetected easier.

If the GL has HEAT rounds it can deal with basic APCs but a RCL while less accurate can take on a lot more.

When I use tend to either send the odd one forward with scout partys or use as support for a platoon. In both cases screw the range right down so only supporting said units. In the scouts case though I would rather send a RCL or 2 with him plus perhaps a squad or armored car RCL jeep if reconing in force. If an APC blunders into my position reasonable chance its passengers will die with the vehicle allowing emergency exit. If of course remain undetected the RCLs AC can cause far more havoc as he passes buy than a GL

Anybody found a use for them when think beneficial to a MG or recoil.
Only time I realy found them handy was in city fighting as pack a decent wallop & HEAT round deters enemy vehicles

[Kartoffel]

AGLs are a waste of points, save your purchasing power and buy a 12.7mm HMG if you want the most bang for your buck.

Just thinking about how much destruction a simple RL hand 'nade is capable of, I would have to say on the RL battlefield AGLs must be a holy terror.

[Epoletov___SPR]

Actually AGL is small calibre autocanon.
In my opinion, it is necessary to change a class of the given weapon in winSPMBT.
To make type: Autocanon.

Side benefit AGL in a reality, shooting as mortar.

[DRG]

Actually AGL is small calibre autocanon.
In my opinion, it is necessary to change a class of the given weapon in winSPMBT.
To make type: Autocanon.



And is that opinion backed up by actual in game tests ?

Don

[Imp]

Its sort of more like a long range version of the old hand held mortar but with rapid ROF I think. Direct fire at close to medium ranges for building assaults etc or arc as a mortar at longer range or to hit units behind obstacles. So yes maybe a LT MTR but then I dont think the game can make it very accurate in direct fire mode. I can see why in reality they have gained favour as can launch multiple ammo types like IR shells or cameras on chutes so its a battlefield information tool, find the target & kill him without risk. All this modern multiple capability weaponry is getting beyound the game engines capabilities though the ADATS works pretty well, like that system a SAM thats not a waste if there is no air.

[Marcello]

Just thinking about how much destruction a simple RL hand 'nade is capable of, I would have to say on the RL battlefield AGLs must be a holy terror.

Bear in mind that a single hand grenade is often heavier and more powerful (especially a defensive one) than a single GL fired grenade. Still they are certainly very powerful weapons and there are several accounts of iraqi infantry units being annihilated by long range AGL fire

Actually AGL is small calibre autocanon.
In my opinion, it is necessary to change a class of the given weapon in winSPMBT.
To make type: Autocanon.

Nope, ballistics are very different.

Its sort of more like a long range version of the old hand held mortar but with rapid ROF I think. Direct fire at close to medium ranges for building assaults etc or arc as a mortar at longer range or to hit units behind obstacles.

My understanding is that mortar like capabilities are generally limited, though curved trajectory can be exploited for hitting targets behind some cover even in direct fire. It is interesting to note that high ROF mortars have failed to gain traction.

[Imp]

My understanding is that mortar like capabilities are generally limited, though curved trajectory can be exploited for hitting targets behind some cover even in direct fire. It is interesting to note that high ROF mortars have failed to gain traction

I think you are correct here as obviosly do the game designers. More for shooting into the air for intel rounds & I believe possible to lob over fairly near objects though accuracy when doing? Trajectory probably does not allow at any distance.

[Mobhack]

AGLs are a waste of points, save your purchasing power and buy a 12.7mm HMG if you want the most bang for your buck.

Just thinking about how much destruction a simple RL hand 'nade is capable of, I would have to say on the RL battlefield AGLs must be a holy terror.

GMG Warhead size is 3 against a 50 cal warhead size of 1.
Warhead size is a major contributor to HE penetration of light armour, and to the killing of soft vehicles. It also contributes to killing of troops, esp in cover. It also contributes to "splash" damage to units not the original target.

HMG and GMG teams produce splash damage. Comes from the unit class and not the weapon.

However, vehicle mounted HMG do not - but vehicle GMG do - splash damage. (Try firing a WMIK landrover with the 50, and one with the GMG with blast radius on). I have not tried the GMG in a rifle team (non MG class) - but it will likley be similar, ie splash for the GMG and none for the MMG/HMG.

Splash damage accounts for the "mortar" effect of GMG in SP - it can reach into cover.

Range tends to be similar, as is accuracy, for 50 cal. GMG usually outrange 30 cal MMG though.

GMG sometimes have some HEAT rounds.

The 50 HMG has more bursts than a GMG, however.

You takes your money and make your choice, six of one and half a dozen of the other. However, the British army has become a late convert to the GMG and the UGL after decades of ignoring them.

Cheers
Andy

[Imp]

Noticed the splash on vehicle mounted GLs which I do take.
Did not realise warhead contributes to damage in cover, but explains why I found them effective in city fighting. Within the confines of the game would say well modeled then as I thought they were useful vs units in buildings & I now have my answer cheers. Going to try an assault & see if they seem more effective than MGs at diging people out.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Noticed the splash on vehicle mounted GLs which I do take.
Did not realise warhead contributes to damage in cover, but explains why I found them effective in city fighting. Within the confines of the game would say well modeled then as I thought they were useful vs units in buildings & I now have my answer cheers. Going to try an assault & see if they seem more effective than MGs at diging people out.
SMAW-NE, Napalm Rockets, and some russian liquid-flame-rocket-proppeled stuff will also do a fine job on it, if size 0, they can get close and kill on a shot or 2

[Imp]

Noticed the splash on vehicle mounted GLs which I do take.
Did not realise warhead contributes to damage in cover, but explains why I found them effective in city fighting. Within the confines of the game would say well modeled then as I thought they were useful vs units in buildings & I now have my answer cheers. Going to try an assault & see if they seem more effective than MGs at diging people out.
SMAW-NE, Napalm Rockets, and some russian liquid-flame-rocket-proppeled stuff will also do a fine job on it, if size 0, they can get close and kill on a shot or 2

Cheers Icamp was aware & yes very effective at killing or routing plus can block LOS with, find the Russian assortment of particulary nasty. Am thinking though this is a use for a GL platoon which I have never bought so buying 1 or 2 in place of support company. Cheap & marginaly better area suppresion kill when in cover, an ammo truck trailing will take care of there limited ammo problem to let them give a full volley & chew through it. I am all for any advantage vs dug in units as delousing is a dangerous task.

[Mobhack]

The Jackal MWMIK with the GMG is a nice piece of kit for grunt-bashing.

Just stay back out of RPG range (or unaided vision range at night) and blaze away with GMG + GPMG. Thermals for night action as well. (Thermals are slightly better than eyeballs for detecting stuff too, even in daylight. Can detect grunts a hex or 2 further than eye).

Pretty nippy too, so when out of ammo, you can zip back to the logistics wagons for a top-up in no time. And only a few points more than the WMIK Rover (TI), but faster and armoured.

Andy

[Imp]

Not a test so subjective as so many variables like experience etc but as do not use foot GLs much did an assault with 12 teams as my support element working in 2 groups of 6, nearly 1 per inf platoon. This quickly became 4 engaged & 2 rearming but I do feel they are more effective vs dug in troops than MGs & was able to make quite fast progress at turfing them out if terrain allowed LOS. Often dug out 2 turns after found best weapon modern tank as very accurate move to 150m & finnish the job after GLs & APCs "Prep fired" from safe positions. Squads main job was finding new targets & sometimes finnishing the job so loses were light & nearly all to new targets no costly firefights vs dug in guys, lost a few APCs to rash moves as always. Next time more ammo carriers as feeding tanks & Gls taxed my supply guys.
Also for night fighting most GLs seem to come with 10 vis while most MGs dont so are a liability as should not be used up close.
MGs still reign for long range fire & against non priority targets in the open due to ammo load but the GL now gets a:up: for attacking main targets. Could not judge properly but at least as good at pinning ATGMs so they can be dealt with, Vs not dug would expect a few outright kills.

[Imp]

Meant to say but as did not use high end helos like Apaches are very good to, short move to 2 hexes & can easily kill a dug in squad with a couple of volleys. Starting to look like the key to assaults is good supply as keeping the arty going helps & flame equiped infantry are another great tool. Anything that makes it a decisive battle rather than a drawn out one saves lives.

[Suhiir]

HMG and GMG teams produce splash damage. Comes from the unit class and not the weapon.

However, vehicle mounted HMG do not - but vehicle GMG do - splash damage.

Cheers
Andy

*Makes notes and checks her USMC OOB work*

[Suhiir]

[QUOTE=Mobhack;717305]

HMG and GMG teams produce splash damage. Comes from the unit class and not the weapon.

However, vehicle mounted HMG do not - but vehicle GMG do - splash damage.

Cheers
Andy

OK - just a follow-up question to the above.

According to the game manual :

4 - Machine Gun = Base MMG/HMG (tripod) type
65 - LMG Section = Infantry Clone
144 - Para MG = MG Clone, Paratrooper abilities
149 - Para MG Section = MG Clone, survives para drops better
176 - Heavy MG = MG Clone
177 - Heavy MG Section = MG Clone, use for multiple MG unit
193 - MG Unit = MMG/HMG (tripod) Clone
194 - MG Section = MMG/HMG (tripod) Clone
254 - Machinegun Team = Crewed Machinegun Clone

Now, the only Unit Class identified as a "Team" is UC 254.
Is this the only UC that does splash damage???

[Mobhack]

[QUOTE=Mobhack;717305]

HMG and GMG teams produce splash damage. Comes from the unit class and not the weapon.

However, vehicle mounted HMG do not - but vehicle GMG do - splash damage.

Cheers
Andy

OK - just a follow-up question to the above.

According to the game manual :

4 - Machine Gun = Base MMG/HMG (tripod) type
65 - LMG Section = Infantry Clone
144 - Para MG = MG Clone, Paratrooper abilities
149 - Para MG Section = MG Clone, survives para drops better
176 - Heavy MG = MG Clone
177 - Heavy MG Section = MG Clone, use for multiple MG unit
193 - MG Unit = MMG/HMG (tripod) Clone
194 - MG Section = MMG/HMG (tripod) Clone
254 - Machinegun Team = Crewed Machinegun Clone

Now, the only Unit Class identified as a "Team" is UC 254.
Is this the only UC that does splash damage???

All are MG teams bar UC 65 (which is infantry). Clones of UC 4.
So they will get the MG + crew icon. And will do splash damage with MMG/HMG (or AGL) because they are all basically UC #4.

AGL will do splash damage, because of the mix of weapon class + warhead size (3).

Cheers
Andy

[Suhiir]

Thanx Andy !
:happy: :happy: :happy: :happy: :happy:

[Imp]

These things are great firing at things like people in rough terrain or have just been lucky. Not much good defending though seem to spend more time out of foxhole reloading than firing. Mind you my MGs ran out to which is unusual perfect setup for once only a few squads even fired & nearly all long range weaponry visited the ammo supply, it was like being at the supermarket had to queue. Was a strange game ran out of arty smoke to covering my guys getting in & out of foxholes for reloads

[Lt. Ketch]

Old post, I know, but figured I'd pipe in and say that I like using the AGl teams for support. I prefer the US 40mm to the Russian 30mm. I particulary like the Hummer monted ones. There, two bits given. Signing off.

[Marek_Tucan]

I have tried giving the AGS-30 its indirect minimal range (1000m) and making a clone in "ligt mortar" class. Made up for a bit of bombardment, but then most of that would be achievable with Z-fire as well, only as lt. mortar indirect the ROF was higher.

[Suhiir]

Old post, I know, but figured I'd pipe in and say that I like using the AGl teams for support. I prefer the US 40mm to the Russian 30mm. I particulary like the Hummer monted ones. There, two bits given. Signing off.

I'm rather fond of the USMC AAV-7A1's.
The Mk 19 added to the M2 HMG makes for a nice infantry supression system.

[Imp]

Use is diffrent to MGs in my opinion due to low ammo capacity.
You can use them with range turned down to half behind squads like MGs or if have HEAT & hence capability vs light vehicles send with scouts to give defence vs.
But the main use is to get a battle over quickly which normaly means less casulties for you. The Russian idea of a platoon of 6 supports this if your game is big enough to purchase them. I use pretty much as direct fire arty, main goal is to suppress & let the attack commence. You then need to pull them out & reload, ammo containers are not that usefull for this takes 3 turns use trucks/carriers.
Use them vs units in good cover trees buildings rough dug in & leave open spaces & slowing advances to your MGs. I often prevent them opfiring if safe to do so to they are an attack primer & use of often allows taxis to stick there noses out & add their firepower in relative safety. Now you can attack & move on.
This platoon is also handy when you discover ATGMs which are often located in good defensive terrain so having them trail your armour works well to keep the attack going forward.
Its a case of right weapon for the job its not a MG but can fill its role if it has to, but not for long.

[Suhiir]

Actually I prefer AGLs to HMGs.
Their "splash" seems more effective.
The US 40mm one has HEAT ammo that works nicely on APCs.
They also seem more effective at supressive fire...perhaps it's the "explosion" (whd size=3) effect of the AGL vs the "bullet" (whd size=1) of the HMG.

In my revised USMC OOB the HMG Platoon has 4x HMGs and 2X AGLs (the normal ratio the USMC uses).

The only problem is the ammo issue, AGLs come with at best 20 shots, most HMGs 60-90.

[Mobhack]

Actually I prefer AGLs to HMGs.
Their "splash" seems more effective.
The US 40mm one has HEAT ammo that works nicely on APCs.
They also seem more effective at supressive fire...perhaps it's the "explosion" (whd size=3) effect of the AGL vs the "bullet" (whd size=1) of the HMG.

In my revised USMC OOB the HMG Platoon has 4x HMGs and 2X AGLs (the normal ratio the USMC uses).

The only problem is the ammo issue, AGLs come with at best 20 shots, most HMGs 60-90.

Jackal MWMIK with 40mm H&K GMG. Best thing since sliced bread for grunt bashing IMHO.

Thermal sights, 50 bursts of 40mm, plus an SFMG and with light armour and rather nippy.

GMGs are best deployed portee IMHO, rather than on a tripod. Portees carry more ammo, and can nip back to the lines when resupply is required.

Cheers
Andy

[Imp]

Actually I prefer AGLs to HMGs.
Their "splash" seems more effective.
The US 40mm one has HEAT ammo that works nicely on APCs.
They also seem more effective at supressive fire...perhaps it's the "explosion" (whd size=3) effect of the AGL vs the "bullet" (whd size=1) of the HMG.

In my revised USMC OOB the HMG Platoon has 4x HMGs and 2X AGLs (the normal ratio the USMC uses).

The only problem is the ammo issue, AGLs come with at best 20 shots, most HMGs 60-90.

Jackal MWMIK with 40mm H&K GMG. Best thing since sliced bread for grunt bashing IMHO.

Thermal sights, 50 bursts of 40mm, plus an SFMG and with light armour and rather nippy.

GMGs are best deployed portee IMHO, rather than on a tripod. Portees carry more ammo, and can nip back to the lines when resupply is required.

Cheers
Andy

Got to admit I love them

[Marek_Tucan]

The veh. mounted GMGs were not worth much... Until they were given the "beaten zone" effect. That change made them into real mean lean fighting machines (until they encounter something heavy enough to kill them, of course ;))