Dramatica - A Very Dramatic Game. Game on.

[Burnsaber]

NEWS:

I managed to figure out the llamaserver bug. The bug was because of the nation number, which made the server think that it was a different nation mod entirely. I tested it and was able to send out a pretender for Dwarfs fine.

However, I had to make a new .dm file in order to change the nation number. It's downloadable from here:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=720059&postcount=50

Also it is possible that someone made a pretender based on the Monolith and Alchemist pretenders made available by a bug in the dwarf mod. If someone has used a Master Alchemist or Monolith as a pretender, it's very recommendable to remake and resend the pretender using the current fixed 0.81 "llamadwarf" version



The game is up on the llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Dramatica)


---Original post----

Alrighty, now that Tourmaline ended, I have time for one more game. My newest nation mod, Dwarfs, is also in need of a MP test.

Nation selection is quite free, but one player must play the Dwarf nation (it's the reason I made this game, after all). I'll play it if no one else wants to, but it'd bring a lot more objective opinion if someone else played it. Other mod nations can be selected as long as they are MP balanced and compactible with CBM and Dwarfs mod.

Rules

Era: MA
Players: 10
Settings: Renaming on, otherwise normal
Mods: CBM 1.6, Dwarfs 0.8 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=715150&postcount=1), Skaven (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=34920)
Diplomacy:
1) Extremely Machieviellian and non-binding, spiced with the bitter taste of betrayal and agony
2) What happens in the name of the "Dramatica" does not spread to any other games in no shape or form.
3) However, feel free to whine about the "persecution" you are facing, as long as you do this in a very extrapolated/silly/"over the top" manner. It's just a game, after all.

Map: Random Map: Rising Sun (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=626553&postcount=3) (131 land + 9 sea)

Other rules
1) Ashdod banned
2) Roleplaying by characteristic posts (both in-game and in this thread) is heavily encouraged and appreciated. Drama creation (as long as it's done with humorous intent) is also encouraged in the game thread.
3) Fighting to the last breath is expected in this game. If you are too time strained or unmotivated to play, please at least try to find a sub.
4) In sign-up, you have to put the word "Awesome" (no context needed) in the post where you sign up. Consider it a sort of test for me to know that you have read the rules of the game and know for what you are singing up to.

Hosting:
26h for turns 1-25
36h for turns 26-40
48h for turns 41-60
72h after turn 60

Delays granted on request.

Victory Condition:

1) Ruling 4 capitals for 4 consecutive turns.
2) Concensus from other players

PLAYERS

Player -- Nation
1.Burnsaber(admin) -- C'tis
2.SciencePro -- Dwarfs
3.FAJ -- Abysia
4.Baalz -- Vanheim
5.qui -- Mictlan
6.Alpine Joe -- Skaven
7.Aethyr -- Shinyuama
8.Gregstrom -- Themiskyra
9.RadioGibbon -- Arcosephale
10.Ghoul31 -- Agartha


*Note that this game is not meant to take a verbal "stab" at any game and/or players. The theme is there to just get some laughs on the very silly thing that is the internet drama

[FAJ]

We will burn your villages!
We will burn your towns!
We will burn your castles and your people!
We probably won't burn your virgins though.

The awesome power of Abysia will be unleashed upon the world, and so it shall be written...

In the encyclopedia dramatica!

P.S. Oh yeah, and we gonna burn yo dwarfs.

[SciencePro]

Well if its drama you want you will obviously need someone from Setsumi!

I think its awesome to try out new things so please give me the Dwarfs.

[Baalz]

The awesome reavers of Vanheim will take the field, and the countryside will burn in their wake. No corner of The Rising Sun shall be safe, all lesser beings will be brought to their proper place as thralls to the Vanir. Baalz rides again.

[qui]

Would be awesome to play in this. I'd like Mictlan. Just must point out that I'm a newbie, and no hard feelings if you prefer not to let me in.

[TwoBits]

My wife's dislike of Dominions is awesome, and I should probably not take on a new game, but who can resist this set-up?

The Bakemono shall descend from the Mountain of Death, the rivers will run red with blood, and this world's so-called civilizations shall crumble. The goblins of Shinuyama shall feast on the marrow from the bones of your children. Hail Chaos!

[Aethyr]

When the Lord of Shinuyama at last reveals his awesome might all shall tremble.

...fickle Bakemono...The former Lord of Shinu is now the Lord of Pan!

[Gregstrom]

I probably shouldn't, but the concept is just... awesome.

Would Themiskyra (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43683&highlight=themiskyra) be acceptable? I'd have to make a CBM-compatible version.

[TwoBits]

When the Lord of Shinuyama at last reveals his awesome might all shall tremble.

...fickle Bakemono...The former Lord of Shinu is now the Lord of Pan!

Dang, sorry Aethyr, beat you by two minutes. I would've posted earlier, but the wife was pestering me. If she had only pestered me for a few minutes more, Shinuyama could have been yours - but alas, such is fate :D

[RadioGibbon]

The astrologers have stared into the skies and the priestess have gazed into the deepest wells. All agree that the portents are awesome indeed and the ancient nation of Arcoscephale will soon be beset on all sides diverse and sinister enemies.

[ghoul31]

Agartha
Roleplaying is not awesome.

[Alpine Joe]

Zaraf the runelord will lead the Dwarves from below to vengeance on the surface world! We will prove once and for all to the nations of the surface (and to our women) that size doesn't matter!!

(I would like to play the dwarves in this game, and I promise to provide helpful feedback, and even maybe write an awesome guide)

[TwoBits]

Agartha
Roleplaying is not awesome.

I think for this game, role-playing is indeed awesome; that's something the creator of this game has specifically requested, and should certainly be honored.

Fighting to the death has also been requested by the game's creator, meaning you can't immediately go AI when things go wrong.

[Anaconda]

I would like to sign up for R'lyeh

[Ossa]

If I'm not mistaken I would be the 11th player:(

Should I be mistaken however I'd like to take the awesome nation of MA... Caelum!

[Gregstrom]

I've checked Themiskyra against Dwarfs and CBM (yay, Compatibility Index!), and all should be fine. Here's the mod, altered to MA.

I've made one other change to the mod - Express the Warrior Fate, a spell to turn 25 Blood Slaves into 25 Battle Vestals, was Thau 7. This looked uselessly high for a spell that's niche at best (Battle Vestals? C'mon...), so I thought Thau 4 might be more sensible. Thoughts?

[ghoul31]

Agartha
Roleplaying is not awesome.

I think for this game, role-playing is indeed awesome; that's something the creator of this game has specifically requested, and should certainly be honored.

Fighting to the death has also been requested by the game's creator, meaning you can't immediately go AI when things go wrong.

You seem to be roleplaying a jerk. very nice.

[Stretch]

I don't have time for another game, but this thread has been awesome so far. Funny stuff.

[Burnsaber]

Whoa! Never expected to see this thing fill up so fast. Thanks for the intrest, guys. For those who were left out, I'd like to remind that you are free start up your own games (that might or might not mimic this one).

My sunday scheducle is quie full and I have some MP turns I have to do + make sure that Themiskyra is okay. If things go well, this pile of flames will go up on the llamserver late in sunday evening.

Would be awesome to play in this. I'd like Mictlan. Just must point out that I'm a newbie, and no hard feelings if you prefer not to let me in.

Nwebies are welcome and you chose a pretty good nation (a'k'a a powerful one) for a newb. Just try to avoid the many pitfalls which are the peril of many ascending player. Try to avoid joining too many games at once (they start out easy, but it can get quite time consuming after a while) and don't go AI too quick, fighting to the last breath is a great learning experience.

When the Lord of Shinuyama at last reveals his awesome might all shall tremble.

...fickle Bakemono...The former Lord of Shinu is now the Lord of Pan!

Unfortunately Shinuyama ninja'd by Twobits. Do you want to select some other nation or step down?

Zaraf the runelord will lead the Dwarves from below to vengeance on the surface world! We will prove once and for all to the nations of the surface (and to our women) that size doesn't matter!!

(I would like to play the dwarves in this game, and I promise to provide helpful feedback, and even maybe write an awesome guide)

Sorry, but you were the 11th player to sign-up (besides, Dwarfs were already taken by SciencePro). However, your talk about a guide is intresting, very intresting. You should start up your own game to test that stuff out.

However, in the odd case that Aethyr doens't want play without getting Shinuyama, you are in.

I would like to sign up for R'lyeh

Sorry, you were too late. Besides, your pos isn't even near awesome enough :P. But seriously, in case you are hungry for games, you should start up your own.

If I'm not mistaken I would be the 11th player:(

Should I be mistaken however I'd like to take the awesome nation of MA... Caelum!

You are not mistaken. What can I say? The fast beat the slow or something.

I've checked Themiskyra against Dwarfs and CBM (yay, Compatibility Index!), and all should be fine. Here's the mod, altered to MA.

I've made one other change to the mod - Express the Warrior Fate, a spell to turn 25 Blood Slaves into 25 Battle Vestals, was Thau 7. This looked uselessly high for a spell that's niche at best (Battle Vestals? C'mon...), so I thought Thau 4 might be more sensible. Thoughts?

Hopefully you compared te Themiskyra numbers against CBM v1.6 (not 1.5 which, IIRC is in the latest Compactibilty index). CBM 1.6 takes a *lot* more weapon slots.

Anyways, I'll take a look before giving my ultimatum on whenever to accept it. Althought I have to admit that the nations original creator's notorious reputation would make it a ideal fit for this game.

[Aethyr]

I'll take Pan.

[Gregstrom]

Hopefully you compared te Themiskyra numbers against CBM v1.6 (not 1.5 which, IIRC is in the latest Compactibilty index). CBM 1.6 takes a *lot* more weapon slots.



Themiskyra has no custom weapons or armours :D

I've also taken the CBM 1.6 and Dwarfs 0.8 and dropped them into my author's version of the Compatibility Index. I may soon have enough free time to do a proper update of it...

Balance-wise, I think Themiskyra is weak for LA and its magic is worse by comparison in the MA.

[Burnsaber]

I'll take Pan.

Twobits decided to step down due to time constraits, so you can have Shinuyama.

I have conacted Alpine Joe about the tenth spot in the game.


Balance-wise, I think Themiskyra is weak for LA and its magic is worse by comparison in the MA.


I have taken a look at Themiskyra and some things really sttod out for me. I like the theme of the nation and the epic mish-mash of several mythoes. However:

1) Poison Bows on gold cost 12 archers: No no. Sauromatia has enough of those bug-abuse weapons for Dom3, IMHO. Replace with short bows (the Pegasus Riders could keep them, though, it's not as bad on a 50g sacred unit).

2) Alchemist summon (attract Alchemist): I don't really see how this guy/gal is really thematic in any way. Besides, he is majorly undercosted, he will pay himself back in forge savings in 3 turns. Besides, him being in construction is a bit too much of "having your cake and eating it too" synergy. I also think that he'll also be overpowered when combined with your many national thug/SC summons. I'd really just get away with him/her.

3) Caryatid summon. 20 astral gems for a mapmove 3 sacred golem-esque that cannot be mind dueled? I'd be a bit more comfortable with her at 25 gems.

4) Rite of Exposed Children: 36 blood slaves for a thuggable A4 mage. Seems.. really cheap. 72 (2x the cost) Would be more like it.

5) Wishing Stars: 3 soul slays at A1S1 (much easier to spam and to get high penetration value). Sure it's not 100 prec, but I'd say it's way too good nevertheless. I'd just get rid of it, since I'm not really seeing how it is thematical in any way.

Do you agree with my proposed changes?

[Gregstrom]

1) I agree the poison bows are a bit uber, but they are the only stand-out infantry unit Themiskyra has. Str 9 + spear is otherwise the limit of Themiskyra's infantry ability, and that's not exactly great. I'd like to reach some sort of compromise here.

2) S2W1 is sorta reachable for Themiskyra, and yeah - the forge bonus is a biggie. 15 pearls is pretty cheap for that, even with no clams. 20 pearls, no forge bonus?

3) The caryatid lacks the golem's biggest bonus, teleportation. It's lower on hits and just can't raid in the same way. I'll put it up to 25, and I guess I'll see if it's worth casting.

4) That's 36 slaves + 20 N gems for GoR - the Storm Children don't come out as commanders. Oh, and you need to do some empowering before you can cast it. Is that still underpriced?

5) Wishing Stars is pretty much the only spammable damage spell Themiskyra has, given their weak paths. And they get it later than other nations get the standard spammable unpleasantnesses Themiskyra just can't cast on the battlefield. As previously, I'd rather work out a compromise - increased fatigue? Reduced precision?

[Alpine Joe]

If its all the same to you guys, I would like to give the dwarves a warhammer colleague by playing Skaven....

If someone has a problem with that, please let me know.

[Burnsaber]

Sorry if I'm sounding a bit blunt here, but I really don't have the time now for dealing with extraordinary amounts of balancing stuff. I just want to get the game started.

1) I agree the poison bows are a bit uber, but they are the only stand-out infantry unit Themiskyra has. Str 9 + spear is otherwise the limit of Themiskyra's infantry ability, and that's not exactly great. I'd like to reach some sort of compromise here.


Erh.. If you need to have single absolutely overpowered unit in order to have "stand-out" infantry unit, the nation is broken. Poison Bows are just too uber. Even if they costed like 20/25 gold they'd be the only thing you'd recruit. IMHO, it's not like the nation really needs them, you have Shadow Vestals and other nice sacreds afterall.

My final offer is to give them short bows and perhaps -1 gold cost. It's not like 11gold per piece prec 12 archers would be "bad". Certainly above average.


2) S2W1 is sorta reachable for Themiskyra, and yeah - the forge bonus is a biggie. 15 pearls is pretty cheap for that, even with no clams. 20 pearls, no forge bonus?


Sounds good, I can accept thse terms. But I really can't understand why you'd want to keep them in. The summon just feels like absolute meta-game "unit", shoehorned in just so that the nation could have a unit with forge bonus. (at least when I summoned one, it was a total mood killer. It *might* fit as a summon for MA Ulm/ Bogarus, but not this nation).


The caryatid lacks the golem's biggest bonus, teleportation. It's lower on hits and just can't raid in the same way. I'll put it up to 25, and I guess I'll see if it's worth casting.


Mapmove 3 is a big fix for that, just give it flying boots and it should have 0% problems in the movement front. Besides, E+H is a *lot* better buffing paths than S (and removes the achilles heel of Mind Duel).



4) That's 36 slaves + 20 N gems for GoR - the Storm Children don't come out as commanders. Oh, and you need to do some empowering before you can cast it. Is that still underpriced?


Eh, when I casted it, I got one as a commander + four of them as troops. I'll try it again this evening to see if I just hit some bug or something.

Empowering or not, 20 nature gems is really cheap for A4 thugmage. That's really close to Air Queen level of awesome (especially considering that they have slots for both air boosters)


5) Wishing Stars is pretty much the only spammable damage spell Themiskyra has, given their weak paths. And they get it later than other nations get the standard spammable unpleasantnesses Themiskyra just can't cast on the battlefield. As previously, I'd rather work out a compromise - increased fatigue? Reduced precision?


Eh, if it's really necessary to keep that spell, I'd say that +10 fatigue and -2 prec should make it a bit less offending (but, *shrug* it's not like you'd cast it without reverse communioning "Power of the Spheres" and "Aim").

Does this nation have a thread anywhere, btw? I'd like to give some feedback on the nation. For me, the nation seems thematically nice (excluding some misses), but the some of the graphics and gameplay element could really use improvement.

If its all the same to you guys, I would like to give the dwarves a warhammer colleague by playing Skaven....

If someone has a problem with that, please let me know.

Depends on how does it fit. If it clashes with Themiskyra I won't allow it (it shouldn't clash with Dwarfs + CBM). I'll test it today/tomorrow.

[Gregstrom]

1. Hokay, although I'd prefer 12 gold and a composite bow. My view on Themiskyra's melee infantry is that they're competent but just don't really hurt anything - you have to rely on sonething else to actually kill enemies.

2. The alchemist has useful paths... that's about it, though. I don't know if I'll ever get around to summoning one, but as this is the first time I've taken Themiskyra into MP I'd rather not suffer from not having the option. Oddly, there is a weak thematic link here. The Scythians (Amazons being in theory an offshoot of the Scythians/Sarmatians) were at one point in their history home to some pretty advanced metallurgists.

4. I could've sworn I only got non-commanders... it was a while ago, though. I'll take your word for it then, and double up the cost.

5. I'll put those in. Aim I can see, and I guess I can see casting PotS and LotNS for the +1 pen. I guess we'll see if it compares well to Soul Slay (I think it may be a bit better against thugs/SCs, but maybe not as good against armies).

Edit: maybe Gifts from Heaven is a better comparison? Same low acc. (with the changes, at least), 3 effects, but GfH has more AoE and doesn't give a save.

The only thread for Themiskyra is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43683 - it was originally Frank Trollman's mod.

[Burnsaber]

In general news, Skaven seem to work with Themiskyra. I'll put the game up on llamaserver once I manage to decide my own nation.


1. Hokay, although I'd prefer 12 gold and a composite bow. My view on Themiskyra's melee infantry is that they're competent but just don't really hurt anything - you have to rely on sonething else to actually kill enemies.


Well, I guess it would be closer to original intent to give them very good archers. 12gcost 12 prec composites make me uneasy though, especially when combined with the cost-effective sacreds (Shadow Vestals are a must recruit even without a bless).

Absolute final offer (take it or leave it): 13gcost composites.


Oddly, there is a weak thematic link here. The Scythians (Amazons being in theory an offshoot of the Scythians/Sarmatians) were at one point in their history home to some pretty advanced metallurgists.


Oh, didn't know that. Makes a bit more sense now. The description could use work though to actually convey this connection.


4. I could've sworn I only got non-commanders... it was a while ago, though. I'll take your word for it then, and double up the cost.


I tested it again and figured out the problem. It likely has wrong effect number (to summon commanders instead of troops). If you quickfix it to actual intent (5 as troops), I could go with a cost of 50. Then the price of one A4 mage would be about 10 blood + 20 nature and about 1.3x "good" mage turns, which could be considered okay with the hassle of research and possible empowering. One option would be to reduce their magic to A3 and perhaps even reduce the cost for the summon to 32 (this would make a bit more like a troop summon instead of half-done thugmage summon).


5. I'll put those in. Aim I can see, and I guess I can see casting PotS and LotNS for the +1 pen. I guess we'll see if it compares well to Soul Slay (I think it may be a bit better against thugs/SCs, but maybe not as good against armies).

Edit: maybe Gifts from Heaven is a better comparison? Same low acc. (with the changes, at least), 3 effects, but GfH has more AoE and doesn't give a save.


Eh, Gifts is a lot harder to cast and very fatiguing to boot. You do have a bit point though on the combat magic for the nation being suck. I'd reduce the spell to researchlevel 7 (but keep the other nerfs).

I also noticed some bugs that you might want to fix. The Valkyrie has two shields, but no armor. Likely the "kite shield" is meant to be chain cuirass or something. Also, the Strom Children have bugged slots (2 heads? I'd guess the intent was 1 head, 1 body + 4 misc slots) The Elemental Armors on Onyx Amazons are also odd, but intended I guess.

So yeah, if you do these tweaks, I'd be okay with the nation being in game.

[FAJ]

I am gonna have to do some research just to figure out what the heck I am facing here!

[Burnsaber]

Game is up one the llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Dramatica). I chose C'tis as my nation.

I'll add the dwarf mod to the game tomorrow (I just want to make sure that there is no need for last-minute fixes). Themiskyra will be up when it is done.


I am gonna have to do some research just to figure out what the heck I am facing here!

That would be wise. The sudden inclusion of 3 mod nations in a 10 player game might be a bit overwhelming, so I've summed up the nations very briefly here.

Skaven


Skaven has been in many games and is pretty much guarantied balance. It has somewhat weak military and mages, but awesome mid & late game summons. Lots of stealth potential but units are quite fragile. If you face them, you should try to use troops that are expendable (elite troops are a poor choice, due to their poison weapons) but have a lot of attacks. Being also vary of steath attacks shoul also help.

Dwarfs

This is the nations first MP game, so there might be some balance issues. However, my feedback in the thread has mostly been about improving them somehow, so I'm quite confident that they are fine (if they are not, it is adviced to handle like the nation would be Ashdod) . Dwarf military is likely best in the game, but cost a lot of gold and resources. All of their castles also cost 1200gold and take 4 turns to build. It is in essence, a slow nation to get rolling and is likely to play defensively, especially considering the good PD.

They have mages with forgebonus (gee, what a shocker), but only medicore diversity and only really strong magic in earth. Also, their most powerful mages have casting encumberance of 13!, limiting the magic support they can give to their troops. This is not a nation that throws fireballs around in the battlefield. You should note though that they have very heavy artilley unit at enchantent 7, "Anvil of Doom" that can do all sorts of crazy stuff. Be prepared!

If you face dwarfs, you should use shielded chaff troops to negate the effectiveness of their excellent crossbow archers (and ranger throwing axes!) and kill the melee forces with appropiate selection of magic. Anything that does AN/AP damage will do fine (poison, combustion, star fire/stellar cascades, numbness, gifts from heaven, fireball, lightning spells), try to avoid mr-negates effects due to their high mr and drain dominion. Be careful when using thugs or big sized troops against them, since they excellent counter to those in the form of slayers (who are weak to archery, try fire largest to target them since they have some extra hp when compared to other infantry).

Themiskyra

Again, facing it's first MP game, so it is possible that balacne issues may arise. However, this nation has the "advantage" of mostly consisting of slightly altered vanilla troops, making it a lot easier to assess its balance.

Basically, Themiskyra has access to all of the independent amazon units (with some boosts) and some female warriors from several nations (like Valkyries and Shadow Vestals as cap-only troops). Their mages and priests basically consist of the amazon priestesse's and sorceresse's, giving them good magical diversity but laughable power in all of them. However, they have strong national summons for more magic power and SC/thug access.

They'll have good archers and quite solid infantry that trouble dealing damage likely supported by some sacred troops. The key to defeating them would likely lie with abusing their lack of battle magic to the fullest.

[FAJ]

Do the dwarfs have black powder weapons? I have played warhammer for many years, so I am familiar with the backstory and flavor of both those nations.

I hate the idea of needing chaff against them, though! Abysian chaff isnt really chaff, and independants tend to fatigue or catch on fire!

[rdonj]

Not really. Mostly it is just crossbows. However they do have a unit called thunderers who use magic lightning-flinging staves to take the place of black powder units. These do 10 armor negating damage, but I think they can be blocked by shields (this is not necessarily true).

[Burnsaber]

Do the dwarfs have black powder weapons? I have played warhammer for many years, so I am familiar with the backstory and flavor of both those nations.


No, the dwarfs don't have any gunpowder since it doesn't really fit with the dom3 universe. However, they have thunderers and flamethrowers as summons to give a sort of *feel* of technological advatage (Thunderers shoot lighting like storm demons, expect that it is shield blockable and Flamethrowers throw flames like Fire Drakes).


I hate the idea of needing chaff against them, though! Abysian chaff isnt really chaff, and independants tend to fatigue or catch on fire!

Well, that's sort how this game works. You need to be ready to change tactics depending on the nation you are facing. One trick isn't effective versus all things. Shielded Abysian infantry could probably withstand the crossbow fire but why should you sacrife them when some random human could take the shot for them?

[Gregstrom]

Err, if Thunderers use Storm Demon shot it *might* be completely unblockable. I'm not sure how much of the specialness of their lightning is due to the #stormflyer/#stormimmune tag.

[Gregstrom]

Hokay, here's the revised mod.

Crystals cost 13g and have composite bows.

Alchemist has no forge bonus, costs 20 pearls and has a revised description.

To avoid me screwing up Rite of Exposed Children through my own ignorance, it costs 72 slaves and is otherwise as is. The Storm Child should now have head, torso, 4 misc.

Gifts is modified as per requests.

Valkyrie and Shadow Vestal both had a typo in their #armour - this is fixed. Shadow Vestal with lightweight scale seems pretty tough to me - they show up as 35g, 25res cap only. Valk now has (as apparently intended) kite shield and lightweight scale.

Elemental armours on the Amazons are as intended I think - they live next to a dying dragon, and the scales presumably make good armour.

[rdonj]

Thunderers use "dwarf lightning" which is an entirely new weapon made by burnsaber. The only property it has which could conceivably cause it to ignore shields is the part that causes it to do shock damage. However I am pretty sure it is only with secondary effects that weapons can ignore shields. Also, I have used thunderers and my personal observation is that they do not seem to ignore shields, as lightning bolts will appear to be hitting units and do no damage.

[Gregstrom]

Cool. I mentioned it as IIRC Storm Demon shots ignore shields, armour and the Air Shield effect.

[rdonj]

They ignore air shield? I wasn't explicitly aware of that one. Anyway, there was some concern about that with the mod initially, iirc someone reported their thunderers penetrating shields. But that was probably just wishful thinking ;). I think the thunderer's ability though is very like a "normal" missile, and doesn't really have any of the strange properties that cause things to ignore shields like poison arrows and storm demons.

[Burnsaber]

Thunderers use "dwarf lightning" which is an entirely new weapon made by burnsaber. The only property it has which could conceivably cause it to ignore shields is the part that causes it to do shock damage. However I am pretty sure it is only with secondary effects that weapons can ignore shields. Also, I have used thunderers and my personal observation is that they do not seem to ignore shields, as lightning bolts will appear to be hitting units and do no damage.

Just to get the thing clear: Thunderer shots get blocked by shields and it is intentional.

On other news, I've uploaded both Themiskyra and Dwarfs to the llamaserver and set up the game accordingly.

Get your pretenders in folks!

[Aethyr]

So, we should have all mod loaded when we design our pretenders?

[Burnsaber]

So, we should have all mod loaded when we design our pretenders?

CBM is very much reguired. But, I don't think that having the 3 nation mods enabled would make a difference one way or other. However, Ids recommended to have all of the mods enabled, just to avoid that miniscular chance of problems appearing.

[SciencePro]

So enabled dwarf mod 0.8 and the CBM 1.6 on my game and then made a pretender for the dwarf nation.

When I sent it in I got this:

I received a pretender file from you, but unfortunately your pretender file is for Invalid Age! Age Unexpected Nation, while the game 'Dramatica' is set in the Middle Age. Please try again with a pretender for the Middle Age.

Details of your e-mail:
Subject: Dramatica
Sent at: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:40:21 -0500
Attachment: nation_77_0.2h

ideas?

[Burnsaber]

Age Unexpected Nation, while the game 'Dramatica' is set in the Middle Age. Please try again with a pretender for the Middle Age.

Details of your e-mail:
Subject: Dramatica
Sent at: Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:40:21 -0500
Attachment: nation_77_0.2h

ideas?

Not much. You sure you didn't have any extra mods enabled? Like singleage mod, for example. Did you use a national pretender (though it shouldn't matter, but still)?

If those two aren't the problem, I'll contact Llamabeast.

[SciencePro]

No I used only CBM 1.6 complete and Dwarfs 0.8

I used a regular pretender (not nation-specific)

When I create the pretender I select "middle age" but the file doesn't seem to understand that it is for MA

[Gregstrom]

Themiskyra is in at last.

[Burnsaber]

Alrighty, I'm doing some testing to figure this bug out. However, the current freeze-up of the llamaserver has proved.. annoying. However, after a lot of code studying, I'm quite convinced that problem is in llamaserver, not in the mod itself. I found absolutely 0 reasons on why Themiskyra and Skaven should work, but Dwarfs not.

Sorry for the delay everyone. I must be cursed or something, every game I start has some mysterious modding bug. *shrug* Well, live and learn.

[SciencePro]

i was trying to do some troubleshooting too but, like you said, llamaserver appears to be frozen. I sent a turn in another game 16 hours ago which worked fine but the turns i sent 2 hours ago have not been acknowledged. Nor has my request to start a test game to upload my dwarf pretender to.

[FAJ]

Okay, so, I originally did not download the extra race mods thinking I could build my god with just the CB mod.

Today I downloaded the skaven,dwarfs and themiskrya mods and had them enabled. I went to go fiddle around with pretender builds to kill time.

When i have those 3 races enabled, my pretender choices change. Under just the cbm, I have less choices for chassis.

With all 4 mods enabled I gained the monolith and the alchemist. Is it possible other things have changed? Are these mod nations interfering with other nations? Should I re-make and re-send a pretender?

[Burnsaber]

So yeah, I was unable to solve the issue. The plan is to wait for llamabeast to respond to my PM. He's been quite busy lately, so I don't know if he's able to fix the issue.

Well, if we haven't heard of him by wednesday, Sciencepro can choose some other nation (preferrably vanilla) and we continue on with the game.

[Burnsaber]

Okay, so, I originally did not download the extra race mods thinking I could build my god with just the CB mod.

Today I downloaded the skaven,dwarfs and themiskrya mods and had them enabled. I went to go fiddle around with pretender builds to kill time.

When i have those 3 races enabled, my pretender choices change. Under just the cbm, I have less choices for chassis.

With all 4 mods enabled I gained the monolith and the alchemist. Is it possible other things have changed? Are these mod nations interfering with other nations? Should I re-make and re-send a pretender?

Oh, you apparently found a minor bug in the dwarf mod (The dwarfs get a Monolith and Alchemist as additional pretender choices, but apprently they have crept up to be available for all nations). I'll make a quick fix. However, this bug shouldn't be connected to our current bug with the llamaserver. *shrug*, but who knows. I'll fix the bug and upload the fixed version.

[Burnsaber]

Holy s'it! I figured it out. The bug was because of the nation number, which made the server think that it was a different nation mod entirely. I tested it and was able to send out a pretender for Dwarfs fine.

However, I had to make a new .dm file in order to change the nation number. It is downloadable in this post.

Also it is possible that someone made a pretender based on the accidentally available Monolith and Alchemist made available by the dwarf mod. If someone has used a Master Alchemist or Monolith as a pretender, it's very recommendable to remake and resend the pretender.

[SciencePro]

Okay that worked.

Let's get this drama started!

[FAJ]

Are there any special settings that I don't know about?

All of my capitals adjacent provinces (all 3) have 100+ indies in them.

Also seemed strange that my capital has only one candle in it still, despite having its temple, pretender and prophet in it, at DomStrength 9.

Just a spot of bad luck?

[SciencePro]

my indies seem normal. i think you may have just got a bad luck start.

If your pretender is sleeping, IIRC, you will only get two temple checks in your first turn. Each one has a 90% chance of succeeding but only 27% chance of affecting your home province - otherwise it will spread to neighboring provinces.

[FAJ]

I had just thought that my awake pretender would automatically raise it by one. Not that it is a big deal, but it surprised me. A neighbor has 2 candles, but not the capital!

[SciencePro]

for having an awake pretender you get one automatically successful check but i don't think it necessarily goes in your home province. There is still only a 30% - 3%/ current candle chance that it will affect the province your pretender is in.

[FAJ]

Ah! Good to know! looks like all the succesful checks distributed outwards. My cap may only have one candle, but all its neighbors have one or two, and even a province that is 2 spots away got one!

[Burnsaber]

Okay, let's make drama happen. Since there is encouragement towards bot silly and serious posts, I'll do both now (I want to keep things open ended now and see which aspect will be most prelevalent).


Just a spot of bad luck?


Ofmg! u fail. lolz

I haxed teh game wiht my 1337 admin powahs to make u begun ther


... And now for something completely different.


Change was in the air. Raw potential, waiting to change the fate of the entire world. C'tah, however, took a deep breath, embracing the feel. He was not scared of the stakes at hand for he knew who will reign supreme in the end. He has seen it with his own eyes, right in the moment when the power of the awakening god rushed into him, filling him with the divine radiance of the Eternal.

It took long to convice the rest of his kin to gaze beyond the marshes of C'tis, to make them finally think big. Now the miasma spreads, shaping the land itself to the image of the greatest god as is just and right. Marshes are the epitome of the natural cycle, full of both life and death. Ah, such of a fitting ground for the Eternal..

To all those who read this message, C'tah, prophet of the Eternal has one thing to say.

Do not fear the change, embrace it, For death is just a milemark on the journey of life. Worship the Eternal and he will make sure that life will go on.

[SciencePro]

Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho
It's off to work we go

[FAJ]

My cap still has one candle!

I blame you burnsaber!

Prepare for war!

[Aethyr]

In the beginning...well the Bakemono do not really remember the beginning, but we do rememeber when the Master came...

He's not here yet you idiot...wait, was that him?

If you interrupt me again I will kill you...

OK...

In the beginning...

[Baalz]

First blood.

In all directions do the Vanir spread, yet farthest ranging is the lord Baalz himself. Riding the winds he blazes a trail of blood across the countryside as barbarians and lizards alike are brought under his banner. For the first time though he has encountered something different, a much more organized barbarian. Great gray beasts driven before disciplined formations appear to be carving out their own nation and to have merely stumbled upon the great lord. They made the fatal mistake though of challenging Baalz as equals, but as he pushed a dead elephant from his spear with a mighty boot he considered the fleeing men and paused to consider the fate of his newly discovered neighbors. They would require a different policy to deal with than the unorganized tribes he has thus far been bringing to heel. Were these a worthy opponent, a worthwhile ally, or more contemptible weaklings?

[Alpine Joe]

okay I tried to think of a way to make this dramatic, but its really not going to work, so here goes....

everytime I open up dominions, the skaven mod is automatically enabled. When I try to open any saved game, or start a new one, dominions just closes, with no error message. I messed around with the mods in the mod folder, and the thing that does it is the warhammer skaven.dm file. When that is in, the problem persists, when I take it out, I can play my other dominions games.
I tried redownloading the skaven mod and copying the new warhammer skaven.dm file to the mods folder, but it did the exact same thing.

The frustrating thing is that I haven't changed ANYTHING since yesterday in dominions. I have to idea why this problem is suddenly occurring.

advice? Could we postpone the game?

If i can't figure this out, I might have to find a sub

[SciencePro]

hmmm maybe leave the mod in the folder but disable it in the "preferences" screen. You should still be able to play your turn even if the mod isn't enabled.

Or maybe re-install and re-patch dominions? Or try it on a different computer if you have one?

[rdonj]

Upon opening his turn file it will enable the mod anyway.

[Burnsaber]

okay I tried to think of a way to make this dramatic, but its really not going to work, so here goes....

everytime I open up dominions, the skaven mod is automatically enabled. When I try to open any saved game, or start a new one, dominions just closes, with no error message. I messed around with the mods in the mod folder, and the thing that does it is the warhammer skaven.dm file. When that is in, the problem persists, when I take it out, I can play my other dominions games.
I tried redownloading the skaven mod and copying the new warhammer skaven.dm file to the mods folder, but it did the exact same thing.

The frustrating thing is that I haven't changed ANYTHING since yesterday in dominions. I have to idea why this problem is suddenly occurring.

advice? Could we postpone the game?

If i can't figure this out, I might have to find a sub


24h delay granted (for now, I'll extend it further if need be). That's a pretty obscure bug. I think that it might have something to do with the game Dramatica itself, perhaps try to delete game files and redownload them. Can you disable the skaven mod from the preferences screen? If you can, does that do any good?

Hmm. Since you replaced the skaven mod, it can't be that. Can you run the game on dubug and see if the log has anything useful? If you don't know how to run debug, see insrucions from here: http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Command_line_options

[Alpine Joe]

Thanks for the delay and suggestions burnsaber, I will give running in debug mode a try.

[Burnsaber]

Alpine Joe, did the debug tell anything? Or should I start to recruit a sub?

[Alpine Joe]

Nothing useful unfortunately, so yes, you should look for a sub.
Sorry to inconvenience the game so much. Good luck everyone!

I was really looking forward to playing Skaven too.....

[Digress]

The Skaven have a new, less capable, leader and have begun their march to ever so slightly mangy and disease-ridden glory.

We acknowledge our many and varied neighbours and hope you all catch something nasty. Coughing up blood and pus nasty.

And fleas, we hope you are harassed by legions of fleas ....

And lice ....

And worms, in all their forms ....

And don't forget the mites ....

At this stage thats all we have ... and boy are we ready to share.

[Baalz]

Weaklings, is the decision. The last few of the fools cower behind their walls behind an old man who, in his senility styled himself a god. The only question remaining at this point is if any more of these weaklings will pretend to be men on the battlefield, or if they will just abandon the senile old fool, sneaking off in the night to save their own skins.

[RadioGibbon]

There was screaming coming from the city again as there so often was these days. Socrastotle frowned as he turned away from the ancient tome he had been studying and drifted across the floor to the window, looking down at the great city of Arcoscephale spread out below his tower.

It really was too much, these screaming fits the populace seemed so eager to indulge in were becoming more and more common these days. No doubt Eriopis the Strategos would soon come running up the stairs to Socrastotle's tower with another rambling tale of some catastrophic defeat. The three centuries old mage sighed, wondering what he paid all these mortals quite so much for.

After all if they couldn't deal with 100 feet tall flying eight legged semi-illusionary horsemen then what was the point in having them around? Still, he couldn't help feeling that their was some sort of solution that was just evading his formidable powers of deduction, hovering at the edge of his thoughts - a solution to all his problems.

It struck him just as he heard the footsteps hurrying up the stairs of his tower, the idiot Eriopis already crying out some confusing tale of disaster. Sorcrastotle instead hurried across his study and gleefully snatched up an elephant tusk that hung above the fireplace. If he were to coat his tower in a layer of this resilient material, might not that muffle the constant sounds of screaming that so disturbed his research? As the wailing reached a new crescendo the old man nodded to himself with sudden firmness. At this point anything was worth a try.

[Gregstrom]

I'm loving the pace of this game, by the way.

[Digress]

My ISP is having issues with the local exchange so internet access will be a challenge for the next 12-24 hours.

Might not reply to PMs in a timely manner. But shouldn't be a problem getting next turn in.

[Baalz]

Vanheim seeks to trade a dwarven hammer for a thistle mace + 6N. We're willing to ship the hammer first so it can be used to craft the mace if desired. First come first served...

[Burnsaber]

Ok, the holiday season is upon us and hence I've been thinking. I was thinking of temporarily moving to a very lenient hosting (like 72h) for the holiday week (20th-27th day). Quickhost will still be on, in case people want to keep the game moving.

Unless I hear any big objections, I'll set the new hosting to take place sunday.

[Sombre]

I'm reading this thread and feeling very alarmed by the post about the Skaven mod wrecking all the other games the guy had running.

Other than that, good reading :]

[Gregstrom]

At last the war is over.

A year ago, a small group of Amazon explorers were unexpectedly attacked and wiped out by savages emerging from the jungles. These same savages, chanting war cries such as 'Tocalotopot!' and 'Popacapinyoas!' proceeded to launch an all-out attack on our frontiers.

Armed with ancient stone gutting knives, slings and in some terrifying cases their own lycanthropic teeth and claws, they caused severe damage before falling to the superior skill and metallurgy of Themiskyra.

Judging by their weaponry and violent tendencies, it was clearly only a matter of centuries before their culture began to indulge in human sacrifice on a massive scale, eventually swamping the world in a tidal wave of demons. Rather than let that happen, the brave maidens of Themiskyra decided to protect the world from this appalling threat and wipe them out. After all, Marignon was nowhere to be seen...

[qui]

Just for the record, 'Tocalotopot!' meant 'Hey you there!', and 'Popacapinyoas!' meant 'Your lizard is in my carrots!' The language barrier led to war, and now lizards are all over Mictlan carrots.

[FAJ]

There are lizards all over my carrots too >:[

[Burnsaber]

There are lizards all over my carrots too >:[


So, what's up, doc?

[FAJ]

ooo, you wascally lizards! Ima get you!

Seriously though. I'd love to take a double-barrel to that ****ing assassin.

[RadioGibbon]

Welp, thats me done. Nice playing with you all and congrats and well played to Vanheim/Baalz. My last two MA games have been Vanheim and I'd been struggling to come up with an effective build, but after that lesson I think I have a much better idea of what I should be trying to do.

[Burnsaber]

Seriously though. I'd love to take a double-barrel to that ****ing assassin.

Yeah, Murmur is the MAN.

He is the Slayer of Gods, the Master of the Dead, the Quencher of the Everburning Flame.

Hmm.. Would it be too late to make him my pretender?

[FAJ]

He can be the pretender for the new Abysia annex, when you take my capital. In about, say, 7 turns? You better get moving, the amazons are looking to steal all my provinces away from you!

[Baalz]

Welp, thats me done. Nice playing with you all and congrats and well played to Vanheim/Baalz. My last two MA games have been Vanheim and I'd been struggling to come up with an effective build, but after that lesson I think I have a much better idea of what I should be trying to do.

GG man, you played a good game from a tough position and slugged it out to the end. Thanks, and hope to see you in another game!

[Gregstrom]

You better get moving, the amazons are looking to steal all my provinces away from you!

I object to that comment - the forces in question are a perfectly natural response to the presence of nearly 200 Humanbred on my borders.

[SciencePro]

It's Christmas time in Dwarfland!

We will be unavailable until 12-30 so we would appreciate a holiday break if possibe.

Happy holidays!

[Burnsaber]

It's Christmas time in Dwarfland!

We will be unavailable until 12-30 so we would appreciate a holiday break if possibe.

Happy holidays!

Alrighty, I'll extend the next turn to next year.

[FAJ]

Hot damn, another turn in 2009! :D

Hey Themiskyra, yah ever gonna declare war on me, or are you just gonna sit ominously on my border with that huge sacred army D:

[Gregstrom]

Do you have a preference?

That 'army' is the honour guards of a group of priestesses cleaning up an unfortunate case of environmental damage - some sort of toxic overspill, we think. It smells strongly of lizards.

[FAJ]

Yeah, you should probably do something about them lizards. They took all my carrots.

I don't think their lizard metabolisms were built for em, they are creating a lot of gas!

[Gregstrom]

The turns are really churning out now. Excellent!

[Burnsaber]

We will keep the holiday hosting for the current (26th) turn. On turn 27, we will move to 36h, as per scheducle in the first post.

[FAJ]

So, me being a genius, thinks: "Well, my troops are pretty much worthless against skellie-spam + poison clouds, lets try flooding him with horrors!"

So my communion faithfully sits in the back and summons up 6-10 horrors, as my army sits in poison. and what do the horrors do? Attack my blood slaves and make my communion retreat.

Friggen lizards. No clue why the army retreated, or why my mages decided to summon so many fire elementals, but I suppose I can't complain.

[FAJ]

The fiendish amazons! Just goes to show in life; you can never tell when one day you're just gonna wake up and there are lizard riding ****s in skirts stabbing you in the throat. The slags will pay for this intrusion!

I am up to my neck in lizards D:

[Gregstrom]

That was my suicide plague squad, on a secret upkeep-reduction mission. The Queens can only apologise for the ineptitude of your troops at killing diseased, afflicted lizard riders...

[Gregstrom]

Ah. With a touch of 'dammit'. That wasn't just the suicide plague squad, was it.

Oh well... When life gives you lemons, skewer some Abysians - or whatever the saying was...

[Burnsaber]

The fiendish amazons! Just goes to show in life; you can never tell when one day you're just gonna wake up and there are lizard riding ****s in skirts stabbing you in the throat. The slags will pay for this intrusion!

I am up to my neck in lizards D:

Well, it's raining demons and hellfire in C'tis. That swamp gas ignites pretty well (ouch!).

You also almost got the MAN with your fire bolts, but he eluded you once again. Where will he be next?

Come on people! More Drama! Is FAJ the only one writing something?

My scouts are seeing a lot of stuff going around the world, events of magnitude that can only be reported in a small witty forum post.

[FAJ]

And it will continue to rain daemons and hellfire!

And if it is the only thing I do before I am extinguished; I WILL KILL THE MAN! If he not be a coward.

And not just because my PR department suggests that 'Operation: Stick it to the man' will go over better than 'Operation: Burn and maim the innocent lizards'

He is a jerk :(

[FAJ]

Would anyone object to a delay/extension over the weekend? i will not be able to play turns after this one until late on sunday, EST.

Normally I don't mind staling, but I am at war with 2 stronger nations, and if I miss a turn I would be essentially conceding. It is by the Baalz pledge, and my own morals, that I fight it out to the best of my abilities.

I can play the turn available now, but not again untill late sunday, or early monday, EST. Could the game be set to not auto-host untill monday afternoon, with quickhost on? I am sure to get one in before that deadline.

[Burnsaber]

Would anyone object to a delay/extension over the weekend? i will not be able to play turns after this one until late on sunday, EST.

Normally I don't mind staling, but I am at war with 2 stronger nations, and if I miss a turn I would be essentially conceding. It is by the Baalz pledge, and my own morals, that I fight it out to the best of my abilities.

I can play the turn available now, but not again untill late sunday, or early monday, EST. Could the game be set to not auto-host untill monday afternoon, with quickhost on? I am sure to get one in before that deadline.

I will extend the next turn's deadline to monday evening.

[Gregstrom]

The Themiskyran nation regrets to announce that it has been the subject of Horrorist suicude attacks. Horrorism is one of the great scourges of civilisation, and the effect this has had upon our citizens it immense.

Our intelligence forces have found positive evidence to link Abysia with the Axes of Evil, and due to immense public pressure we are forced to declare a War against Horror.

[Aethyr]

The Master strode to the top of the hill that overlooked the dark castle.

The field that lay before it was littered with the shredded bodies of Bakemono warriors. In some places the bodies lay in smoking mounds mangled flesh and bone, a testimony to the power of the living statues bound into service by the one-eyed ones.

The scouting reports had been wrong. These Agarthans had not been easy foes, their weapons of arcane flame proving to be a match even for the Dia Bakemono. But, finally their fat prophet and his cohort of Oracles was no more. Deprived of their support the warriors were no match for the Master’s swarming hordes, and their little godling had been crushed beneath the Master’s own heel.

Yes, the castle still stood, and undoubtedly there were still more of the Oracles and their stone servants to slay. No matter—the Bakemono were many. Summoning more hordes to replace the fallen, the Master marched forward to claim his dark prize.

[Aethyr]

GG Ghoul, you really made me work for every gain.

[FAJ]

Leave it to the amazons to declare war after the invasion. Against a crippled opponent no less!

No matter, come on into the Abysian domain. We welcome all visitors with a warm embrace ;)

[Gregstrom]

So... you think you're hot stuff, do you? I sense a sudden cooling in our relationship.

[Baalz]

Vanheim DRAMATICALLY declares war on the pesky amazons.

[Digress]

The Skaven mourn their dead - their, still twitching, malformed piles of dead.

The rats also celebrate the, very, very, very much smaller pile of dwarven dead.

[SciencePro]

All thanks to Mordian for guiding dwarf hands to victory in the recent battle. But let us not grow complacent. There are still plenty of foul disease-ridden rodents crawling over our territory.

To battle!

[Gregstrom]

What was with the unscripted Vanjarl? It's a bit too late to remind him that quaffing mead should be done after the battle, not before.

Also - dammit!

[SciencePro]

Don't underestimate the usefulness of quaffing mead before a battle. It loosens the muscles and dulls pain which allows the warrior to, as the old dwaven saying goes, take a licking and keep on ticking.

The main downside to drunken fighting is the decreased reaction time. But you can compensate for that by spending a lot of training time throwing axes at your recruits. Anyone whose head gets cut off isn't fit to wear dwarven steel.

[Gregstrom]

This month Baalz, the blind, mad lord of the Vanir chose to attack the peaceful mountain province of Dragon Pointe. We don't know if it was intentional, as his guide dog was absent from the combat and could not be interrogated. Some evidence, such as his oft-repeated war cry of "Where'sh de beeeeer! I wantsh me beer and me hoors!", suggests he was aiming for our capital but got lost somewhere along the way.

While literally dozens of brave Amazons were overcome by Baalz' halitosis, those few who could hold their breath for sufficiently long were eventually able to put him to flight by repeatedly extolling to him the virtues of temperance.

Baalz was last seen riding away on his four-legged horse (reports of eight legs are, we believe, attributable to the effects of the thick haze of alcohol fumes constantly surrounding this sorry specimen of a pretender) towards one of the deep ravines which make up so much of Dragon Pointe's terrain. None of the province's brave defenders could be bothered to investigate the mysterious loud splatting noise that was heard later on that day.

[FAJ]

He must be drinking some of our fire water.

Abysians are choosing liquor over strategy. Perhaps that is why our troops are leaving in droves. To numb the pain, Whorus has blown all cash reserves on booze and drinks away his sorrows. A martini served in the skull of the late "THE MAN".

Now if only we could find some ice... (Those drake corpses are starting to melt :( )

[Burnsaber]

I'm going to give myself 24h extension. I'm babysitting for my sister and I need to focus my attention for this task.

[Burnsaber]

Hosting extended to 48h per turn, as per scheducle.

[Baalz]

Vanheim *DRAMATICALLY* claims credit for dominion killing the dwarves, and by right of conquest claims their former territories. Anyone save Skaven who attempts to capture territories formerly of the dwarves will be considered to have committed an act of war against Vanheim. We would also like to start a pool as to how long people believe it will be until the amazons suffer a similar fate... (oh snap, smell the DRAMA!)

[SciencePro]

Someday the dwarves shall rise again!

good game, guys

[Digress]

The Grey Seers of the Skaven can finally wade out of their various temples. Waist deep in the blood of uncounted (I lost count anyway) sacrificed virgins they were. And yet our dominion push aimed at the Dwarven capital is barely worth mentioning.

In my best stage whisper "BEWARE VANHEIM ....".

Our rats will hoover up what provinces we can whilst Shin-no-longer-camping-on-our-border marches west.

[Burnsaber]

Someday the dwarves shall rise again!


Any opinions on the nation? You seemed to do well against Skaven, at least from what my scouts saw,

[SciencePro]

I enjoyed playing the nation. It seemed pretty well balanced compared to the basic nations. It felt like what ulm was supposed to be better.

Between the strong Earth magic and the cheap items i think i could have beaten skaven eventually. But even though the dwarfs have strong priests, there was nothing i could do to stop the giant dom-push from van. I had like 10 H3 priests and 20 H1 priests all preaching the last turn and it still didn't matter.

Anyway, good luck everyone in the rest of the game.

[FAJ]

Do we discuss the mod nations here? I have some thoughts on the amazons.

#1 The name is hard to remember how to spell, I end up deleting the failed attempts and just put "the amazons":laugh:

#2 Dragon scale armor seems a bit heavy for amazons. I know there are theme issues and modder's choice, but the whole nation seems very beefy on protection. As Abysia, I felt light in the armor department D:

#3 The sacreds appear to be somewhat out of control. Recruitable anywhere, sacred cav with naturally high defense and protection at what is really too low of a cost in resources (and maybe gold)

#4 The PD is effing scary! Is it meant to be so dead-hard? Unless I am mistaken, does the PD contain sacreds + priests to bless them?

The nation in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth. When playing against it (or with it in SP) I felt like the theme was: "Onyx amazons should have high protection; amazons are agile so should have high defense; they are a religious based society so there should be lots of sacreds. Lets put sacred, high prot. high def. units everywhere! and make em easy to mass" I do not think that the limited strength in magic balances this out. At least not on a small map.

[Gregstrom]

Yeah - there's an unexpected boost to dragonscale armour in CBM which throws amazons out of whack. It's fixed.

Ditto the resource cost/gold cost/recruit anywhere sacreds. And the PD, which is just silly.

[Gregstrom]

My experience this game was certainly that the sacreds were very available and easily massed. Sacreds are also the only units with a melee punch, which makes you want to use them even more. Their cost was probably too low at 40g, and the resource cost was definitely too low.

I hadn't bothered looking closely at the PD before this game, but I think it's a bad thing to have PD that can kill Van raiders reliably when it's high enough.

Check the attached file - a lot of the issues are addressed. I'm not quite sure about the lizard riders still - they're pretty much a worse deal than Oiorpata as things stand (10g and 2 res more to buy, but lower strength, hp, defence and morale. You do get one more point of torso prot and the semi-useful 50% PR though).

I'm not getting a great deal of enjoyment out of playing an unbalancesd Themiskyra in this game, and it's no longer useful for balance testing either. If circumstances were different, I'd cheerfully declare myself neutral and use my territory as a handy sandbox for looking at what could reasonably be done by the nation in the later stages of the game. Unfortunately, I don't think that's likely to happen.

PS: A question for everyone: How come Garnet Amazons are only immune to fire if they aren't sitting on a gryphon? Is it some sort of weird allergy, perhaps?

[Digress]

Between the strong Earth magic and the cheap items i think i could have beaten skaven eventually.


The Skaven would have won through eventually, in my unbiased opinion.

Random thoughts on the stumpies ..

The Dwarven warriors high morale is their great strength, units have to be killed to a man, sorry dwarf, before they rout.

The 40 protection Runic Ward shields on the Runeguards seems too high - maybe they should have some cold resistance added and the shield dialed down.

Maybe the troll slayers and giant slayers should be low level summons rather than out of the box trample counters. Forcing the player to do some research if they find they have elephants etc. as neighbours.

[rdonj]

Reducing the protection of the runic ward is probably not completely unwarranted... 40 is an awful lot of protection for a shield.

However I disagree with making slayers unrecruitable. Dwarf armies are so ridiculously slow to build, they need to have a pretty good trample counter available or they are completely screwed. Dwarven magic being what it is, forcing them to have to have strong research out of the gate would be pretty harsh.

[Burnsaber]

I moved the dwarf discussion to the mod thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44183&page=11). Just to keep this thing in topic.

About Themiskyra and its current version in the game. Yeah, it's OP, I should've given it a bit more testing at the beginning. But it is the mod we started the game with and we cannot change the mod mid-game without major hassle, so IMHO let's just go on with the game. Let's pretend that "Themiskyra = Ashdod" when dealing with it. As for the fun factor Gregstrom mentioned, perhaps he would like to search for a sub? Themiskyra is in a powerful & intresting position and the appereance of a new player could be considered as a "handicap" as far as the nation is concerned.

And to bring this thread even more on topic:

LOLZ! Greg is cheaterz! Lisetn guys, let's gagn ihm! Supsire buttsecks!

(I would've written a detailed RP post, bit I'm in a bit of a hurry now, that was much faster to type)

[Gregstrom]

It's not too much of an issue really - the way Van's dompush is going, Themiskyra will be out of the picture in ~10 turns. No point getting a sub for that sort of timescale, so I'll just spend my time killing as many Vanir, vampires and Blood summons as possible. I haven't seen the Heliophagii yet, but it's just a matter of time...

[Aethyr]

Our rats will hoover up what provinces we can whilst Shin-no-longer-camping-on-our-border marches west.

Feel the chaff of the Bakemono! :D

[Baalz]

It's not too much of an issue really - the way Van's dompush is going, Themiskyra will be out of the picture in ~10 turns. No point getting a sub for that sort of timescale, so I'll just spend my time killing as many Vanir, vampires and Blood summons as possible. I haven't seen the Heliophagii yet, but it's just a matter of time...

Ha! Only LUZERS would have a problem with Themiskyra! All you need is high end summons with good mage support. You guys are such newbs...

[Digress]

The huge chaff rich armies of the Skaven continue to grow despite my best efforts to "prune" them - my luck scale is turning into a ridiculous militia spawning monster.

Bahh ....

[Gregstrom]

Well, in an unexpected twist the amazons aren't dead yet. And even better, Pedoseion is! Party time in Themiskyra :D

[Aethyr]

A vile rumor has reached the Masters ears; it tells of people from the west that follow a half-blind so-called god. It is said that these people are warriors and have defeated many nations.

What, pray-tell could be vile about such a story? Indeed, the weak should perish at the hands of the strong—this is the WAY of things. Is this not written in the code of the Bakemono?

Yes, the weak should and must perish…there is nothing vile that. No, it is the manner of that perishing that is unspeakable, shameful to any true warrior.

What, you might ask is shameful about the death of a warrior? What could possibly be vile about a glorious death by combat? Ah…but what if we told you that this conquest, this inevitable destruction of lesser peoples, was not accomplished through strength of arms? No, it was not
steel or arcane forces that won the day. It is said that these peoples defeat their foes by killing little girls. Shame.

Now, you begin to understand. You think you comprehend the disgust the Master feels. You do not. These people, these so-called warriors who claim that their place in the after-life is secured by a glorious death, used rats to help them. Rats. Shame. Surely Valhalla is closed to such as these.

As shameful as it is the Master understands that the Bakemono cannot win this battle—the power of the blood of virgins is too STRONG. The followers of Old One-Eye will have their “victory”, and whatever this so called “Valhalla” holds for those who seek victory through the blood of little girls.

[Gregstrom]

So much for party time in Themiskyra. Thanks for a good game, everybody.

[FAJ]

Yes, this was a very enjoyable game! I am a turn or two from being extinguished as well.

I wish only that I would have had some more exposure to the Dwarves and Skaven. This was my first MP game with mod nations. I found it to be a good time all around!

[Baalz]

So, is that a concession or anybody think there is any chance I won't win?

[Burnsaber]

So, is that a concession or anybody think there is any chance I won't win?

Yeah, I think so. At least I concede, all that cold dominion renders my national troops unusable. My only regret is not managing to defeat Abysia.

Unless I hear any objection within the next 24h, I will declare the game finished.

Good game, enjoyable all around. More detailed AAR to follow.

[Baalz]

Oh well, looks like I won't get to use the nasty stuff that I've been building towards *forever* and is just now coming online. The one-two punch of that heavy dominion push was being supported by a bunch of immortals. Vamps, obviously I've got coming out my ears (supported now by darkness, fog warriors, marble warriors and iron bane), but I also stockpiled enough pearls to empower two different liches up to S2 for soul drain + bone griding or soul drain + darkness + neverending skellispam/imps heavy bombers risking just a cap and staff + 2X lifelong protections. Being immortal, seemed like a reasonable investment of 80 pearls apiece - and having nothing but lizard shamans I'd been piling up pearls for awhile. I also had just south of 300 D gems that was intended to be dumped into burden of time a short time before war with Shin along with astral corruption hopefully going up the same turn. I hadn't lined up an efficient way to cast that yet (probably would have ended up alchemizing a bunch of F/W/N gems and empower one of those liches a couple more times in astral then done a bunch of blood empowerings...I was pulling in 100-150 slaves per turn so no problem there). Hmmm, or does one of the Heliophagus have astral magic? I don't remember.

Gah, I had some absolutely abysmal luck very early in this game. My pretender got feebleminded by one (un)lucky mind burn in the final fight with Arco. He was intended to be empowered in blood and be my platform for summoning vamp lords, wraith lords and liches. Ended up having to double empower a D1 dwarf to do that which was very expensive at that point of the game and slowed me down a good bit in getting vamps. I considered suiciding my pretender and hoping when I called him back the feeblemind was healed but I just couldn't bring myself to do it as I just *knew* he'd still be feebleminded after all that. Plus, being dom-10 and stealthy it wasn't totally worthless just to have him sneaking around amazon lands leading into my attack and dom push.

[Baalz]

*smacks forehead* I left out the best part. Those liches were to be accompanied by vanadrotts cloud trapezing, holding a staff of storms and 2 more lifelong protections. Scripted to mistform the turns bonegrinding was going off, life for a life when not.

[SciencePro]

Good job baalz. Congrats

[Aethyr]

Baalz, a masterful game indeed. Congratulations.