Terrible Player.

[Iry]

I just borrowed this game from a friend to give it a try and see if it is worth buying. The game is very interesting and seems to possess more depth than I can currently imagine.

Which is precisely the problem. I'm apparently terrible at this game. I've put about 40 hours into this game so far and I only seem to manage to win when I use good scales, leverage massive armies, and jack up PD to 125 in every single front-line province. It's a horribly slow march that involves thousands of clicks on recruit able units and I'm not very happy with that.

I have no clue how to make freshly recruited units automatically go to a different province. I have no clue how to make the spell system really work in my favor. I seem to have terrible luck doing any kind of site-searching and just wait for Akashic Records. And, most importantly, I have absolutely no clue how to stop the massively aggressive computer AI that throws hundreds and hundreds of units at me WITHOUT having a big army and PD 125.

Any help or suggestions?

[Squirrelloid]

What nations have you tried playing?

AFAIK, there is no way to automatically make newly recruited units go somewhere. You can, however, hire batches by 10s by clicking while holding shift.

Elite units do perform much better than cheap units, although whether they are worth the cost in gold or resources is a decision you'll need to make on a unit by unit basis.

Baalz's post on 'How to not lose' is informative on how to make victories more favorable. You might also try skimming some of the guides in the Strategy index for ideas.

Site searching may only turn up a site every 7th or 8th time. That's ok, just keep at it. Manual searching can work, but remotes save mage time and always find a site in that path if its present. To duplicate this by wandering around and searching you generally want 4 in the path of interest (although sometimes you can get away with less, depending on terrain - see the strategy index second post first section - there's a link to a useful post there).

Acashics is rarely worth it, except for a few nations (and then used sparingly and carefully). In fact, the only nation for whom acashic gets my approval in any general context at the moment is EA Ermor (because you have *all* the paths except blood, and only have income for 2 of them, one of which is astral).

[Omnirizon]

hmmm...

pick a nation, read the guide in the strategy index (maybe pick on of Baalz's nation's guides), and follow it. You will learn a slice of the way to play Dominions.

as a general tip: don't by 125 PD. generally, don't buy more than 1 PD (but always do buy one PD) unless you have bad luck scales, then buy just enough to resist the barbarian random event. Only buy more if you are anticipating a big defensive battle where having some extra (and renewing) chaff will help you win.)

EDIT: yeah, and like the above poster says, Acashic is rarely (if ever) worth it. Do all the automated site searching you can using Dark Knowledge, Arcane Probing, Gnome Lore, etc. It can take a lot of it to find anything, but any thing you find is very worth it, and occasionally you will get big hits.

[Gandalf Parker]

TURN UP THE INDEPENDENTS
People tend to turn the independents down in order to try and make the game easier but that has just the opposite effect. Turn the independents up. You can make more intelligent choices about who to attack and when than the AI can. This will allow you to expand more slowly and carefully. And it will keep the AI from swarming you too soon.

Also play on larger maps with fewer AIs.

[thejeff]

"How not to die" is probably more advanced than needed.

Dominions is a very variable game. We really need more data to know how to help.
What nations have you tried? How far do you usually get before you start getting overwhelmed? What turn? How many provinces?
Standard expansion against the default independent level of 5 is taking 1 province a turn starting on turn 2, reinforcing that starting army and sending out more expansion parties every other turn or so. 10-15 provinces by the end of the first year (unless you're running into other nations) and picking up speed.

Against the AI, some PD is actually useful. It doesn't help much in actual battles, but the AI bases its decision on whether or not to attack you in part on whether it thinks it can take your border provinces and PD plays a role in that.

Agreed that Akashic usually isn't worth it, use the individual searching spells. But if you haven't figured out the magic system enough to make use of those gems yet, it doesn't really matter.

Dominions is a game of counters and counter-counters. The AI is widely considered to be terrible, despite thrashing most of us when we started playing, because it doesn't know how to counter tactics used against it. Its favorite technique is the huge armies you've run into. The counter to that is not to fight a war of attrition against it, but to fight it with things that huge armies can't really hurt. SuperCombatants and/or Elite sacred troops, mostly. Trickier is artillery mages behind a shieldwall.
Try a nation with strong sacreds, give them an appropriate bless and watch how they cut through huge armies.
Try playing with an awake SC pretender. There are better ones, but try a Dom10 Wyrm with no magic. That's about the simplest to use. Put him in the back of the field with orders to Hold, Hold, attack. If he dies, call him back.

More generally, bump up the independent difficulty. That'll slow your start down, but it'll slow the AI down more, since it's not good about picking which provinces it can take.
I did better using maps with more provinces/player so I had more room to expand before getting ganged up on by the AI.

[Tolkien]

What nations have you tried playing?

AFAIK, there is no way to automatically make newly recruited units go somewhere. You can, however, hire batches by 10s by clicking while holding shift.

Elite units do perform much better than cheap units, although whether they are worth the cost in gold or resources is a decision you'll need to make on a unit by unit basis.

Baalz's post on 'How to not lose' is informative on how to make victories more favorable. You might also try skimming some of the guides in the Strategy index for ideas.

Site searching may only turn up a site every 7th or 8th time. That's ok, just keep at it. Manual searching can work, but remotes save mage time and always find a site in that path if its present. To duplicate this by wandering around and searching you generally want 4 in the path of interest (although sometimes you can get away with less, depending on terrain - see the strategy index second post first section - there's a link to a useful post there).

Acashics is rarely worth it, except for a few nations (and then used sparingly and carefully). In fact, the only nation for whom acashic gets my approval in any general context at the moment is EA Ermor (because you have *all* the paths except blood, and only have income for 2 of them, one of which is astral).
Wait, you can hire in batches of ten?

Oh for the love of...:doh:

[Iry]

I thought I would start simple and stick to a single era. I've played every single EA nation a couple of times and mostly lost. I've noticed I prefer a few bigger units as opposed to numerous smaller units because I dislike losses, but those bigger units tend to come from the Capital and have logistics problems getting to the front line.

I've tried to avoid using numerous commanders because they really clog up my screen, but that seems to be a bad idea. I usually get about 4-5 provinces by the first year and about 9-10 by the second year and maybe one more province each additional year with the computer hammering me all the while. At that point I'd like to sit and do research to try and learn the magic system, but unless I press my military offensive the AI will beat down my defensive forces and I get bored of constantly shuttling reinforcements to the front lines.

I've tried using mages for Skeli-spam a couple of times, but once I've got about 20 I've consumed almost all of my income with upkeep even with Order 3. I don't really know any other spells to spam except maybe Wind Blade, and it still doesn't solve the upkeep problem. I've started to favor Death Magic not because I like the thematics, but because it seems to avoid all my units becoming old and dying of diseases.

Also, I started building a fortress/castle/rampart in every single province I own because it seemed like the right thing to do since it buys me a few turns to prepare a counter offensive incase I almost lose a province.

[Omnirizon]

I think what's consuming all your money is spending it on 125 PD and fortresses.

It is generally agreed that hiring a cap only mage EVERY turn, starting as soon as you have the money to do so, is the best option. Don't forego buying these mages to build forts until you can afford to hire a mage and build a fort. MAGES ARE YOUR LIFEBLOOD. Pound for pound, they get you more than anything else.

Skeli-spam is actually an effective and easy tactic, so I can't believe you can't get it to work. What is really strange is that you know about the skeli-spam tactic, and are still putting 125 PD and building forts in every province. Any player that knows enough to know what 'skeli-spam' is would have figured out enough to not buy 125 PD or build forts in every province.

I'm a bit tempted to call troll here.

But at any rate, buy more mages, build less forts/less PD. three 2D mages will produce what? at least 45 longdead in before passing out?

[Tollund]

You are spending almost 8000 gold when you put PD to 125. Don't do this. You want to expand to at least 10 provinces by the end of the tenth turn, then increase that expansion rate until there are no more provinces to expand into.

[Iry]

I'll definitely give a try to buying a capital mage every single turn, but how do you keep down the massive upkeep of maintaining that many mages?

Skeli-spam does work on a military level, but getting it to work seems to cost massive upkeep that prevents me from doing other things. Infact, putting 125 into province PD is what seems to let the skeli-spam work because the mages have time to build up a massive force of skeletons while the enemy is whittling away the PD, and when I win I get to keep all the PD. I'm not defending the tactic, because I would like to stop needing so much PD, but I am explaining how I seem to use it.

As for your comment about knowing what Skeli-Spam is, I actually read several strategy guides in this forum and tried a few of the tactics before I decided to bother you all with a post. Most of the strategy goes over my head, honestly, but I do pick up a few gems here and there. I am unfamiliar with the call troll spell, though.

[paarfi]

I'd like to second the suggestion of reading Baalz's guides. I started out playing Marverni, loading up on boar lords and carnute nobles, and throwing them straight into battle with a heavy bless. I'd avoid the druids for the most part because the old age scared me off. Of course I got beat down regularly by the AI.

Then I read Baalz's Marverni guide, and it was like discovering a whole new game. All those different ways to use a druid! Different ideas and strategies that seemed to fit that nation so well.

I read the rest of Baalz's guides, and some from others in this forum with great interest. I would never have thought to fit out Shide Lord thugs for Eiru or Tir like that. Amazing. The game stopped seeming like a bland bunch of nations with basically similar units and different themes just for flavor. The ways some seemingly minor spell or unit could transform the way you play a nation made me want to dive in and try them out. It also made me think about the possibilities, and how alter those strategies with my own ideas.

I thought the manual was very well written. But it wasn't until I started reading Baalz's guides and some of the others here that I really started to understand and appreciate Dominions. Highly recommended to all newbies and strugglers.

[Gandalf Parker]

It sounds as though you consider yourself a "thug" player. Not stealth, research, turteling (defensive), horde, or super-combatant.

Altho I also like to use PD more than average I would rarely use it that much. Generally (depending on what nation you are playing) I would buy 1 PD every time at least and try to get it to 6 (which means I dont have to sweat drop-attacks from werewolves or birds), 11 if its connected to my capital or has a high population or an important site or important lab, 21 if I build a castle. And thats only for solo games on mid to large maps (not recommended as a habit if you plan to play multiplayer games anytime soon)

[Conq]

I believe he was implying that you were "trolling" the forum looking to get a response out of people (look it up on wikipedia or urbandictionary).

I'm still playing dominions2 so im not sure how much help my advice would be but here's some of the things I did when I started out.

At the beginning get a good sized army together (roughly 25 or so "good" troops or around 50 "alright" troops depending on what you can afford and what nation you are etc) start taking the independents around you with that army, I usually put only 5 pd on each conquered province, 25 on any castles I build. Keep recruiting mages to research until you need to replenish some troops (note: while you are recruiting mages you can go ahead and recruit troops at the same time). You'll have to look at some guides to see whats best to research. Dont worry so much about defending your provinces, the computer (in dom2) tends to recruit a bunch of crap troops in all of their provinces and then snowball them together, so when you are facing a couple really big armies you should realize that behind them there is mostly open range for your stealth/flying/thugs/remote spells so if you can hold off the big armies you can trash their backyard.

Or if you are still getting stomped you can always download a mod and then go in and start editing some units so they are essentially unstoppable (but thats nots really much fun) if you take this approach I suggest editing a pretender only (give them all kinds of magic and abilities and all the bells and whistles) that will make it kinda more sporting for the AI because your pretender can only be in one place at a time.

Hope this helps.

*This is at lease 10 times longer than any one of my posts so far :rolleyes:

[thejeff]

As I alluded to above, the AI looks at PD. I believe it looks at PD in distinct levels, basically 1-10,11-20, 21+. I generally will put either 11 or 21 in provinces that border a so far peaceful AI. This helps convince them not to bother with me.

The reason upkeep is killing you is that you're not expanding fast enough. You don't have enough territory to to earn enough income to afford mages for the research you need. Though if you're burning that much money on PD and forts, some of it could go towards mage upkeep. Also remember that sacred mages are half upkeep. You're going to want the big guns anyway, but may affect which mages you buy for research.

This is a common problem early on. It seems like it should be easy, but figuring out what troops and formations to use to take indies with minimal losses, but without using more resources than needed is an art.

Also some of the tactics in the guides work better in MP than in SP. A lot of the raiding thugs (Sidhe Lord w/ E9N4 bless, Frost Brand & Vine Shield, for example) are designed to be cheap and effective against low PD and small forces. They'll get overwhelmed against the 100s of troops the AI has wandering around its backfield, much less its main armies.

[Squirrelloid]

I dunno, a sidhe lord with 4 reinvig, a frost brand, and a vine shield can kill a remarkably large amount of troops. I've seen one beat a veteran army (2-3 xp stars/unit) of ~200 demons and elite troops. Or you could ask Namad about his experience. =) Its epic. (Seriously, ballads should be written).

[Tollund]

The reason you can't afford mages is likely because you aren't expanding fast enough, and you aren't expanding fast enough because you are spending 8000 gold on province defense instead of hundreds of troops that can get you more provinces and more gold.

[Joelz]

For newbies playing in EA, I'd suggest taking Abysia, and researching mostly Evocation. You get great battle spells which don't hurt your fire immune troops.
Also, most of your infantry is heavily armored, so they can take arrow fire, which is particularly bothersome in EA.

[chrispedersen]

Um..

I'm an ok player =). I rarely put 20 Pd. I build 1 castle every 4-5 provinces - and I'm considered an aggressive castle builder.

Try starting with sauromatia, hinnom or niefle. These are 3 very strong races. Read Baalzs guides if necessary, but these nations can conquer with their starting troops, and only need to field 5 (niefle) to 30 troops (sauro) to conquer most indies.

[Bananadine]

I never had major trouble with the Normal-level AI, even starting out... but personally, I rather like the 125 PD thing in games against harder AI's. A maxed-out PD is a maintenance-free grinder that the foolish AI will throw large armies into, one after another. It can pay for itself by wasting enormous amounts of enemy gold, even though it's a hugely expensive investment for you! (But I don't mean to say that turtling behind extreme PD is the BEST strategy to use against the AI, or that Ivy would do well to focus on it--I'm just saying that it does work.)

Surely six or so D2 or better necromancers, with a modest number of guards, can defeat most armies that a Normal-level AI would use? Surely it isn't too hard to blast across the map early with EA Abysia's sacred units and a strong blessing in nature, water, etc. Many, many things can defeat Normal-level AI....

[Gandalf Parker]

With PD, particularly in the early learning-the-nations days, its best to keep in mind that not all Province Defense is the same. Recruiting the locals to help out is a good idea. Especially if its not just guard duty but actually a spot that is likely to get attacked by a strong force. Key chokepoints and such.

I find that "lots and lots" of PD isnt as good as just one "lots" with one unit of added support. Some PD just needs a couple of extra commanders. Some do fine but really lack some heavy hitters such as a few mounted knights. And many of them can really do two or three times as effective if they only had more archery support. If that province, or one nearby, can provide just one full-time force with instructions added to the PD it can make all the difference. And of course casters but that tends to be a whole different subject.

Also keep in mind that the PD seems to fight like an unpracticed local militia. They all just seem to start in the middle and charge forward. So its the other formations I concentrate on. A strong front line. Or flanking fire set to concentrate on a certain group such as archers. A large fast group set to attack rear. Or a heavy mounted flanking group set to hold-&-attack rear.

[K]

Dominions takes a long time to learn. I'm not talking about "40 hours", which is most games. Its more like "several months", or even a year.

The reason is that each spell has a niche. Some are rather broad, and some are vanishingly small, but troops are only the first step in winning battles.

My suggestion is the read some of the strategy guides which have been posted. Also, try scripting specific spells and watching the battles to see how each interacts with the combat.

Also, some nations are easier to play than others. Try a bless nation like Neiflehiem and choose strong magic on your pretender. Several excellent guides can tell you the details.

[Knai]

Plus a few small multiplayers, high speed, with other people couldn't hurt. Or a slower one, though quick, pseudo-hotseat style play would probably be best. Any local friends into the game?

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes, the Manual does a real good job of being a Manual.
But a Strategy Guide would have to be a set of encyclopedias.

Even one for each nation wouldnt quite cover everything. My own favorite EA Pangaea has two very different flavors (vine and maenad), and multiple full-blown strategies within those (stealth, or horde, or turtle).

[MaxWilson]

I'll definitely give a try to buying a capital mage every single turn, but how do you keep down the massive upkeep of maintaining that many mages?

Skeli-spam does work on a military level, but getting it to work seems to cost massive upkeep that prevents me from doing other things. Infact, putting 125 into province PD is what seems to let the skeli-spam work because the mages have time to build up a massive force of skeletons while the enemy is whittling away the PD, and when I win I get to keep all the PD. I'm not defending the tactic, because I would like to stop needing so much PD, but I am explaining how I seem to use it.


I don't understand this second paragraph, and it makes me wonder if you're using skelly-spam to mean something different than I think. For instance, if you mean "raise a whole bunch of skeletons with undead priests and/or gem-costing spells," that's not skelly spam. Skelly spam, as commonly used, means "put several death mages on the battlefield and have them cast Raise Skeleton or Raise Dead repeatedly." Depending upon how many Death levels each one has and what your Reinvig rate is, you may need more or fewer mages, but basically this pumps out a never-ending stream of skeletons which can defeat any normal-sized army.

The way you deal with the massive upkeep of building mages is 1.) expand and take many provinces, 2.) buy cost-effective mages, 3.) live with it. The upkeep for mages will frequently be your single biggest expense, but on the plus side mages generate RP while they're eating gold (unless you have them busy fighting or site-searching) whereas regular armies do you no good at all unless they're fighting. You generally do want to pick mages that get you lots of RP for the gold cost though: upkeep is 1/15 of purchase cost per turn, unless you're sacred in which case it's 1/30. When it's time to get in a war, all or many of those mages come off of research duty and start skelly-spamming or whatever. Frequently a couple of mages can stiffen up PD to the point where you don't need anything close to 125 PD in order to repel attackers.

-Max

[sector24]

Just to suggest something slightly different...
It seems to me like you are challenging the AI using tactics that the AI excels at; lots of troops, very low magic. It's not surprising that you don't do well because the AI is probably as good as you are at raising large armies and you are probably fighting multiple AI nations at the same time. If you want to stand toe to toe with traditional armies, the best nations for that are EA Niefelheim and EA Lanka.

To get a leg up on the AI with other nations, you need to focus on things that they can't counter. That's thugs, super combatants (SCs), and battlefield magic. In particular, try Abysia with evocation magic, or a nation like C'tis or Sauromatia with conjuration magic. Summon Bane Lords, Ivy Kings, and Wraith Lords. Forge them a couple items (luck, regeneration, fire/frost brand, shield). A properly equipped Wraith Lord can kill hundreds of enemy troops, plus he's immortal so if you make a mistake and he does die, you don't lose him. Bane Lords are weaker, but cheap and they can supplement an army nicely.

Learning the magic system takes quite a bit of time because of the number of spells and their unique uses and interactivity, but it is probably the most rewarding part of the game. Hope this helps, let us know if you've been making progress.

[MaxWilson]

Thugs and SCs against the AI? That way lies madness!

DO NOT... SEEK THE TREASURE.

-Max
Channelling Cleveland...

[Bananadine]

Surely it isn't too hard to blast across the map early with EA Abysia's sacred units and a strong blessing in nature, water, etc. Many, many things can defeat Normal-level AI....

Out of curiosity I have tried this. I started a game against four AI nations (they turned out to be Niefelheim, Ermor, Lanka, and Marverni), and default settings. My god was a Master Druid with E9N4 and dominion 7. My scales were Death 1, and maximal Order, Productivity, Heat, Misfortune and Drain.

At the start of the game, I told my starting commander to patrol. I made my starting assassin a prophet and told him to preach, and I had my god research Evocation and Alteration equally. I did not change these orders ever again, except to rebuild my lab, which was randomly destroyed early on.

Every turn (except at the end when it obviously wasn't necessary anymore), I recruited one Anathemant Salamander; I also continuously recruited as many Burning Ones as I could afford. I did not recruit any units other than this. Every turn, I told every mage to lead all the Burning Ones present into some semi-random neighboring province (or to besiege, break a siege, etc.). All mages were always scripted to cast Blessing five times. No troops were ever specially positioned within the battlefield.

It took me about 10 in-game years, and about an hour and a half of real time, to win. I lost many battles, but I was never in danger. I never deliberately cast any spell other than Blessing. I never built any buildings, except for that one lab, and I never used any province defense. My biggest difficulty was in fighting Bogus, who got right in my way toward the start--but that was only because I wasn't trying to be very smart about massing my troops.

At the end of the game, my income was over 3000 gold and my upkeep was about 650. I had almost 4000 gems.

Conclusion: IT IS INDEED not very hard to beat the AI, even if you play very stupidly and follow an extremely simple plan. So long as it's the right plan! (And I imagine there are lots of right plans!)

[Ironhawk]

Iry, the problem here is that what you are telling us doesnt really make sense. It makes me think that we are talking at different wavelengths, which is completely understandable. Most of us have been playing for a long time and its difficult to try and put ourselves back into the position of how someone whose just started playing the game sees things. Instead of trying to bridge the gap of understanding, I'm just going to tell you exactly what you need to do in order to beat an infinite number of AIs. Then, once you know that, you should be able to expand on that strategy to many others which will handily beat the AI.

Do This:
Start an EA game, choose Abysia
Build a pretender that has *at least* Earth-9 and Nature-4 magic
(this will give your sacreds a strong blessing)
Take scales Order 3, Prod 3, Heat 3, Misfortune 3, Magic 1
Choose dormant awakening
Take as much dominion as you possibly can.
Set independents to max (9)
Set magic research to easy
Start the game

While playing, buy only Anathement Salamanders (cheapest sacred mage)
Buy all Burning Ones (your elite sacreds) with remaining money
Set your research to 100% Evocation

In combat, lead a team of burning ones with a commander with holy magic
Script the mage/priest to cast Blessing x5, or Divine Blessing
Watch as your burning ones butcher all resistance!
Expand rapidly - AT LEAST one province/turn after turn 5.
Build more burning one teams as new provs give more money
Expand more and more
Buy only 10PD in any province
Perhaps build 25PD if the prov is a chokepoint vs. the AI
Build more forts+labs as money comes available to increase research with more mages

Continue in this fashion until you research Firestorm (Evocation level 7)
Once you get Firestorm, recruit Anointed of Rhaux
Put the Anointed with your combat team and give them fire gems
Script Firestorm
Attack the AI with a suitable number of troops + Firestorm (aby troops resist fire)

The Game is now Over. The AI cannot compensate anymore.

[Sombre]

He'll try it and it won't work and he'll talk about 125 pd some more and then gandalf will post?

[/crystal ball]

[Gandalf Parker]

Or he could jump right to the end by logging into IRC.

To Iry: IRC (Internet Relay Chat) is online chat rooms. There is one for Dominions 3 which is where a number of the experts that have commented hang out. The information on getting there is in the sticky posts at the top of the forums. They can take you step-by-step thru a winning game.

[Iry]

Since the last time I posted I've played 6 games. Two were wins, and four were losses. My record seems to be improving! In all of the accounts below I was playing with Independent Strength 9 per one of the suggestions from a previous poster.

The first loss was playing Niefelheim with an N10 Bless using Jotuns. I amassed 10 Jotuns before I began to conquer independents than stampeded them until I ran into Helheim. The computer presented no military resistance to my seemingly undefeatable Jotuns and I plowed ahead in search of his capital. It was my hope to land on his Capital and let his military trickle back home to try and oust me to their ultimate doom. Unfortunately, this was not the case. While I siege their capital, the enemy AI went for my provinces and claimed about two per turn (easily beating the PD of 10) until I bought more Jotuns at my capital and tried to fight back the independents. While I chased their offensive down with my secondary force of Jotuns, their army + pretender siege my capital. I used my secondary force of Jotuns to try and remove them but their pretender killed my blessed Jotuns and I ended up losing every province but the enemies capital (which I had finally claimed) I ended up being Dom Killed.

The first win was playing Niefelheim with an N10 Bless using Jotuns. I created groups of 10 and went on a conquering frenzy until I ran into the computer playing C'tis. I began to create numerous groups of 10 Jotuns with a blessing capable commander to defend each front-line province and this successfully repelled the enemy. The enemy also apparently lacked a combat pretender this time around and had nothing that could beat the Jotuns. At this point the computer did absolutely nothing but throw troops into the Jotun meat grinder and I steadily advanced and made sure I never gave the computer an opening. The computer died a horrible death and offered no real resistance.

The second loss was playing Mictlan generally using one of Baalz strategy guides. I created gobs of Mictlan priests and conquered territories with Jaguar Warriors. I was losing quite a few Jaguar Warriors with every battle, so I apparently wasn't using enough chaff to defend them. I finally ran into the computer playing Niefelheim and I tried to protect my borders and start blood sacrificing so I could explore the Blood spells. Apparently you shouldn't blood sacrifice in your capital because I totally tanked my income within a couple of turns of solid blood hunting. Regardless of this, Niefelheim hit one of my defended provinces and tore me apart. I had placed chaff with shields in front of the Jaguar Warriors, but the enemy rock hurlers threw rocks at the Jaguar Warriors and ignored the chaff. The enemy Jotuns ate my chaff alive and they claimed province after province until they conquered me. I never got to explore the Blood spells significantly and it was like watching my last game in reverse.

The third loss was playing Sauromatia. I waited a couple of turns until I had about 8 Hydras and a Tamer then conquered an independent province every turn until I ran into Abysia. Abysia apparently was using a decent fire bless because they tore apart my Hydras with Burning Ones and I had to stop expansion. Luckily, Abysia got distracted by another enemy AI and didn't come for me. This gave me a chance to rebuild Hydras with some shield-chaff in front of them. I claimed most of the territory around me and felt like I was doing pretty solidly. I decided to experiment with blood again (which is why I picked Sauromatia) which quickly tanked my income once again. I thought I had a decent number of provinces, and I made sure to only blood hunt provinces that were away from my capital but I guess I have to take it lighter next time. Finally, Abysia finished killed his opponent and turned its attention towards me. It was a slow battle, but I was losing more than I was winning. Whenever I got enough troops to defend one province they attacked a different province and I had to rush over there to defend it. In the end I decided I couldn't keep it up and rushed behind their lines to try and claim their provinces and I traded them one for one until I had accumulated too many loses and finally lost. My conquered provinces were conquered back and I was overwhelmed.

My second win was playing Sauromatia again. I waited a couple of turns until I had about a hundred Androfangs lead by a couple of Witch Kings. I proceeded to march around the countryside conquered everything as I added more and more of both Androfangs and Witch Kings. Once I hit around 400 Androfangs I started having starvation problems so I split the army up and continued to conquer until I ran into Marverni. I spent a couple of turns not attacking as I build Endless Wine for each of my Witch Kings and bulked up to 1,000 Androfangs. I then proceeded to kick the crap out of Marverni. Suddenly my Witch Kings started being shot by arrows from Caelum. Every. Single. Turn. About half the time they even killed them. This caused all kinds of supply issues and I couldn't even see Caelum yet. I had a good 30 provinces by this time and I was doing respectably by money so I had every one of my Witch Kings craft a Skull Mentor and started researching, just replacing each Witch King that was killed by arrows (which was about every other turn). Even so, I felt pretty confident in my victory with 30 provinces and I made my Witch Kings all blood hunt one turn, patrol the next turn, blood hunt the turn after that and repeated until I had enough blood slaves to make about 10 Vampire Lords. This was purely experimental, since I felt I could have won with Androfangs alone. I used Blood Sacrifice to push my dominion outward and advance with Vampire Lords just to see how cool they were. I even summoned a Demon Lord just to see what he looked like. All in all I think this took a gross amount of time that probably wouldn't be valuable in a competitive multi player game. Finally, I 'accidentally' dom-killed my opponent since I was trying to spread my dominion for Vampire Attacks.

My fourth loss was playing as Yomi. I started off with a rainbow pretender to try and be effective at Site Searching but since I had no idea how many ranks of magic I needed to site search effectively I just went with Fire, Water, Earth, and Air at 3 ranks each. This was also important because I wanted to practice spell casting. I tried out some of those fire-throwing Oni at first but they seemed to do almost no damage to the enemy independents. I switch to the freezing oni and had tremendous success. I build up a ton of the freezing-yomi just like I had done Androfangs from the previous game and conquered a province every single turn until I ran into Vanheim and Ulm almost simultaneously. They were busy with each other, and apparently R'yleh was somewhere I couldn't see (but participating in death matches to great success. I started to beat down Ulm until something very weird happened. My troops were starving. I was eating up nearly 400 supply in the province I had my major army in. I checked and found nothing but food-less oni. The next turn my troops were diseased! Still nothing in my army but freezing oni. My army of Oni, who needed no food, apparently starved to death. From that point onward ALL my oni were eating supply despite the fact that it said they needed no food. Well, Vanheim finally beat Ulm and turned on me and they had an absolute ton of dwarven smiths that kept spamming Blade Wind that ate my army apart. I built some chaff-with-shields and marched my own significant amount of mages to combat them and I guess I should have spaced my mages out more because Vanheim used Blade Wind on my mages and ignored the chaff until after the mages were dead. In the end, I only uncovered about three sites and wondered what I was doing wrong, there.

I promise that my next game will try using the E9N4 Abysia Bless tactic.

[chrispedersen]

Well there are counters to every tactic.
the trick is not pound your head against the wall trying the same thing. Adapt.

a few comments.

Mictlan: Forget chaff. priest + 7 jags will take almost any indy. (AND YOU WANT TO).

If you run into something you think is too hard. It isn't.
Ok. The exceptions are deer archers. But if you really get nervous, use 2 groups of 7.

Sauromatia: You can't afford to expand with hydras, in ea.
build a dozen spearmen, and 30 -40 androphags. That will handle virtually anything.

You're still attacking way too slow, and giving the AI time to mass huge forces.

Yomi: don't sweat losing with yomi. But SP you should attempt to make SC's with the Dai Oni's.


Hint: My rule of thumb for acceptable MP play is *15* provinces conquered before the end of year 1.

You should have your first fort built, as well, and ideally a second one started.

[sector24]

I am reading a lot of "I waited until I had an overwhelming force..." It will take some time, but you need to get better at gauging how many units you need to win a battle, and beating the enemy with smaller groups, which increases the # of provinces you can take per turn.

It also sounds like a couple times the computer beat you with guerilla tactics of trading provinces with you until you were defeated economically. Expanding faster will help with some of that, but if you are in a situation where you have to trade provinces, make sure you're standing on the high income lands. If you are going to lose a province, jack the taxes up to 200.

It sounds like you are doing better though. I think I put 80 hours into the game before I was starting to feel confident in my abilities. It's worth it though, I enjoyed both my wins and losses. :)

[Gandalf Parker]

In solo games I dont try "too hard" to take every province. Especially in early game.

I try hard to take every province that connects directly to my home province since my castle will draw resources from them increasing what I can recruit each turn.

Then I get picky. The farmland (aks if you dont know how to tell) usually give the most gold. The mountains tend to give resources but thats only useful for that one province in the early game if its not directly next to a castle.

I tend to zig-zag my way toward the enemy going around provinces with lots of knights and elephants. I let the AI run into those then I jump him when he is weakened. Later in the game I will go back and clean up the other provinces.

I try to avoid taking the last province between me and them. I sit and buildup in a province one-away and hit him after he has just attacked the indepts. Hopefully a hard one.

Of course my favorite tactic is to leave no direct path back to me by jumping completely over indept provinces instead of zig-zagging thru weak provinces. But thats a tactic that only works for nations such as Caelum (flyers) or Pangaea (stealth) which doesnt seem to match your playing style. And Dominions is definetly a game where matching a nation to your style is your best bet. Also I do tend to play larger maps than many other people because I really like the "search and discover" part of the game.

[Bananadine]

You know, you are also allowed to cast Seeking Arrow. :)

[Omnirizon]

Never take an X10 bless, it is never worth it. You get the big bless benefit at 9, so why go to 10?

[llamabeast]

Oni are gluttons. They do not eat food, but they eat it in large amounts. Any mortals with them are at risk of starving to death, since the oni take the food first.

[llamabeast]

By the way I very much enjoyed reading your accounts of your games, and am looking forward to reading more!

[MaxWilson]

Never take an X10 bless, it is never worth it. You get the big bless benefit at 9, so why go to 10?

Maybe Reinvig 5 vs. Reinvig 4 is worth more to you than an extra Luck scale? For instance, you're playing with Sidhe/Vanir thugs and you have self-buffing thugs with Enc 4. Having net Enc 0 is great, but you'll still have some fatigue from buffing--getting from Fatigue 25 down to Fatigue 0 can be a lifesaver in the right situation.

You might make a similar case (although to a lesser extent) for F10, W10, or N10 under the right circumstances. Not so much for A10 I think, nor for D10 or S10. B10 isn't even worth discussing because nobody wants B9 in the first place. :)

-Max

[MaxWilson]

Oni are gluttons. They do not eat food, but they eat it in large amounts. Any mortals with them are at risk of starving to death, since the oni take the food first.

The weird thing, though, is that he said his Oni all got diseased. Maybe they just happened to be on a disease-causing site and it just looked like it was from starvation? Either that or it's a bug.

-Max

[Squirrelloid]

Oni, like Undead, can get diseased. Its a 'free' affliction insofar as it doesn't actually do anything to them.

[Trumanator]

Well, even if it does nothing, they shouldn't have been starving at all since they're NNE.

[Squirrelloid]

Its true. They can get afflictions via taking damage though - i've seen diseased demons/UD generated that way.

I always laugh when a GK pretender gets 'diseased' as an affliction.

Iry:
One of your problems seems to be this idea that the goal is to amass an overwhelming army and then crush everything with that one army. This is primarily a strategy game, not (really) a tactics game (although tactics is important, at the level you're playing at you can mostly ignore it).

The strategy 'have one large army' is a losing strategy. One army seriously constrains your choices. You can make one attack per turn. You can be in one place at a time.

To paraphrase Sun Tzu: the best deployment approaches the formless, for if it is formless, even the wise cannot make plans against it.

So, field multiple smaller armies. Attack multiple provinces of an opponent when in a war. Avoid his large army if necessary until you can assemble enough forces to deal with it (try to predict where he's going and meet him there). Use remote spells to whittle away his numbers, or, more likely and usefully, his commanders. All the while take away his provinces, jack the taxes if you don't think you can defend them, and thus destroy his economy.

[ComTrav]

I've started playing this game some again after being away for a while, and in messing around some I've had to re-learn some things.

It sounds like you're taking too long to get your magic going. It seems like you have a plan to build up your empire, and then get into magic, but really you start researching magic almost right away. IMO part of the reason the AI is an easy opponent is because it rarely researches magic, and once you get Evocation 4-6 and a solid number of combat mages it's pretty easy to blow up a much larger army. (Everyone's mentioned EA Abysia,

I could've misread your description, though, but it sounds like you're following a plan of 'establish territory, then do magic', or 'get a feel for combat, then do magic', but IMO the magic system really is the heart of the game. When you feel like you have a handle on the game to play without getting stomped and want to mess around with magic, my EA Tien Chi game taught me a LOT about the magic system, and the use of different items/summons to do diversification. (Along with this: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Dominions_3:_The_Awakening/Nations/T%27ien_Ch%27i%2C_Spring_and_Autumn).

I haven't played that many multiplayer games, but you can test out a lot of tricks against the AI. (You don't learn many counters against the ai, though, because it has basically one fighting style...I really wish I could get the AI to obligingly set up a large spell communion...)

[MaxWilson]

Oni, like Undead, can get diseased. Its a 'free' affliction insofar as it doesn't actually do anything to them.

Unless somebody hits them with Decay, and then they'll take 5 points of damage per round just like any other Diseased unit. IIRC.

-Max

[Squirrelloid]

Oni, like Undead, can get diseased. Its a 'free' affliction insofar as it doesn't actually do anything to them.

Unless somebody hits them with Decay, and then they'll take 5 points of damage per round just like any other Diseased unit. IIRC.

-Max

Decay doesnt deal 5 damage/round, it adds 5 to age per round. Dai Oni don't care.

Also, Diseased doesn't do 5 dam/round, its 1 dam/game turn, and don't heal between turns. Neither of which effects Dai Oni.

[Trumanator]

I think hes saying that if disease does 1 dmg per turn, and decay does 5 turns worth of aging it equates to 5 damage. While I don't think it actually does that, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it did, what with all the other randomness that Dom likes.

[Tollund]

Five years is 60 turns, so it should really cause 60 points of damage per turn to a diseased unit.

[Foodstamp]

Oni, like Undead, can get diseased. Its a 'free' affliction insofar as it doesn't actually do anything to them.

Unless somebody hits them with Decay, and then they'll take 5 points of damage per round just like any other Diseased unit. IIRC.

-Max

It's kinda confusing because of the "5" that appears above the victims head, but that is not damage, it is an anomaly in space-time.

[Sombre]

That's pretty cool if decay causes diseased units to take 5 per round.

But yes it really should be 60.

[MaxWilson]

That's pretty cool if decay causes diseased units to take 5 per round.

But yes it really should be 60.

In my tests, it does. Notice how Decayed units eventually start taking damage and turn into puffs of blood? It only happens once they catch Disease, and after that point they take 5 points of damage per turn. (You're right that it should be 60, but it isn't.) I only started liking Banefire and Wind of Death after I discovered this effect, and I think it's pretty neat.

I am not 100% sure that I've seen this happen to undead too, but I think I have. Call it 40% sure.

-Max

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, that should get bug reported then, because disease isn't supposed to affect demons or undead.

[Sombre]

Should be tested first. Easiest way would be to mod in a weapon that causes disease and decay and have a unit with it fight a load of undead with very high maxage.

[SlipperyJim]

Never take an X10 bless, it is never worth it. You get the big bless benefit at 9, so why go to 10?

Maybe Reinvig 5 vs. Reinvig 4 is worth more to you than an extra Luck scale? For instance, you're playing with Sidhe/Vanir thugs and you have self-buffing thugs with Enc 4. Having net Enc 0 is great, but you'll still have some fatigue from buffing--getting from Fatigue 25 down to Fatigue 0 can be a lifesaver in the right situation.
I read a strategy guide for Ashdod that recommended an E10Nx bless and using Adons for expansion. Since an Adon naturally has Enc-5, the E10 bless gives him a net Encumbrance of zero, so he can fight all day....

[Omnirizon]

because with a net encumbrance of 1, he can still fight for 20 turns before crits even start to become a problem.

plus, there are so many other things that can cause fatigue. H2+/H-2+ builds are not uncommon, swamp, Rigor Mortis, Heat from Hell, etc.

The 'net 0 enc' is only a reality in the early game, and if you can't have a battle in the bag in 20 turns in the early game, you probably arn't winning anyway.

Going from X9 to X10 cost, what? at least 60 points (assuming you started off with like 3 in that path). Thats a beneficial tip of a scale, and maybe an extra magic path, which would have much bigger benefits (a few extra Adons, for example; much better than a few less with 'net 0 enc').

[MaxWilson]

because with a net encumbrance of 1, he can still fight for 20 turns before crits even start to become a problem.

An unbuffed Adon (<Bless, Hold, attack>) is actually pretty weak, since he has no helmet. But yeah, an E9Nx Adon could probably take most indy provinces before he starts taking crits, since the Holdx2 gets him back down to zero fatigue. When you add in Body Ethereal and Personal Luck, <Bless, Body Ethereal, Personal Luck, Hold, Hold, attack>, he's at 29 FP before he even starts his attack run, to say nothing of possibly needing multiple Blesses to cover any Ahimans he may be escorting. 29FP + 1 FP/turn makes me considerably more nervous than 24 FP, period. You're not neglecting any of the important scales like Order to get this.

-Max

[AreaOfEffect]

On Topic
---
Iry, I think we all actually appreciate the reports on your progress. Sometimes it becomes hard for most of us to remember what it was like to play Dominions for the first time. Reading about experience is really a highlight of my day. Thanks.

I'm currently educating a friend on how to play the game. In many respects they have some of the same problems you have. A lot of people are throwing advice around. I think my best advice so far to my friend has been this:

The core of the game is the grimoire. The magic system trumps all. In the end, your skill level is almost entirely dependent on your knowledge of the spells. After that it becomes a matter of solid tactics, resource management, and a whole lot of luck.

That said, good luck to you and happy hunting.

Disease Discussion
---
Burden of Time makes disease twice as effective. Again, one year adds only one point of damage, not 12.

It might make sense to some people that magical aging would mirror actual ageing, but I think it makes more sense in its current form. I don't think of it as a manipulation of space/time, but rather a weakening or withering of the body. If it was a manipulation of time, then Burden of Time and Decay should rightly be astral magic, not death.

[SlipperyJim]

I promise that my next game will try using the E9N4 Abysia Bless tactic.

Remember to use Early Age (EA) Abysia. That'll give you the best experience.

I have to second this advice. EA Abysia is a very straightforward nation. Your chief mages (Anointed) are powerful and not old. You have heavy infantry in an era that doesn't have a lot of heavy infantry, which usually gives you military superiority over most of your opponents. Lastly, fire evocations are heaps of fun, and all of your national troops are immune to any friendly fire. What's not to like?

The only "catch" to playing Abysia is how you mix your national troops with independent troops, like those tribal archers that you can hire in nearly every province. Here's the short answer: Don't do it.

The long answer is that Abysians all radiate heat. That heat is part of why they're so scary to fight in close combat. But the heat can also be a problem for any friendly troops who aren't immune to it. So if you recruit 50 tribal archers and group them around your Abysians, the archers will risk bursting into flame. Not good. If you're careful, you can use battlefield placement to keep any flammable troops away from your Abysians. Careful placement should prevent the problem, but it doesn't always work. Sometimes your guys move around, and suddenly your troops are spontaneously combusting like the Spinal Tap drummer. I usually don't bother with it. Abysians are plenty tough on their own, so you don't really need independent troops.

Happy BBQing! Let us know how it goes!

[vfb]

On Topic
---

Disease Discussion
---
Burden of Time makes disease twice as effective. Again, one year adds only one point of damage, not 12.

It might make sense to some people that magical aging would mirror actual ageing, but I think it makes more sense in its current form. I don't think of it as a manipulation of space/time, but rather a weakening or withering of the body. If it was a manipulation of time, then Burden of Time and Decay should rightly be astral magic, not death.

No. Normally disease makes you lose 1HP per turn (maybe 2 in late winter).

BoT ages each unit one year every single turn. Once a unit is diseased, it will lose ~4HP per turn with BoT up.

[AreaOfEffect]

vfb, you misunderstand what I meant. When I said one year adds one damage, I meant one magically applied year, not an actual year. Trust me, I know that disease adds one point of damage a turn normally. I'm pretty sure you don't lose ~4 hit points a turn with BoT. If that was the case, then when you cast BoT against me and the others in Collider, I certainly would have lost that game to you.

The exact damage aside, it still remains to be said that you don't lose 13 HP a turn while BoT is up. So in the end I still stand by what I said.

[vfb]

It's definitely not 12 (or 13) per turn, you are right about that. Sorry, you are correct I did not understand your initial post.

I just tested it in a mini-game, and an average of 4HP per turn was what I saw, once units got diseased. I was testing using MA Marignon, so maybe it's worse for units that are extra-old?

[Psycho]

BoT adds drn years per turn (1-6 that is) and takes away as much hp from a diseased unit, if I recall correctly.