11 Gavrus

[JTullman]

Well after an entire night of trying I have given up.
This scenario is impossible.
Anyone ever get something better then a Decisive Loss on this one?

Some tips would be useful. Like how to not run *** first into this imbalanced nightmare.

[RightDeve]

What?? I got Draw or Minor victory on that small patch of river battle!
Those are the old days of my first SPWW2 playing, pretty good (and hard) scenario!
Cover the hill just accross the river using smoke, it has some sort of AT gun stationed there.
Remember to always bring down mortar havoc down to those brits digging in in the southern woods, they're pretty strong, once thought of overflanking the town and seize 'em by surprise from behind, but they've got some tough auxilies too down there, damn!

Cheers, RightDeve!

[JTullman]

I've been shelling the crap out of bridge/town garrison.
I've also tried sneaking around north/south pincer attack avoiding the main route of attack but I can't get to the objective in time (10 turns). I'll try laying some smoke like you said but the Brits have dang good moral and I can't break through those foxholes.

Thanks

[JTullman]

Wow, yeah absolutely nothing. The valley can't be cleared and even if you do there's just another line waiting on the other side of the river. I've been playing these games since I was in middle school and I've never been this pissed off. I'm going to turn this down to 30% and have my way with it for a few hours.

[DRG]

First run through playing fast and a bit sloppy... draw. ( it's been ages since I looked at that scenario and everything is set to 100%) I'm confident that a second run through would result in a marginal victory or at least a much better "draw". A decisive would be tough but getting decisive SHOULD be tough though not all scenarios are set up that way.


Trying to attack anywhere south of the road is a waste of time and men.

Concentrate your force, have patience and don't attack in places that cannot give you possession of V hexes. Smoke is your friend. There's a REASON the "gold spot" is where it is. When you do attack, overwhelm.

Don

[Imp]

Just tried myself, as DRG said pretty obvious go straight for flags force them to leave foxholes to recapture so moved all but 2 down road or North of, scouts turning up gives you a clue. Heavy casulty start to cross river but that gave time for a sensible approach later. In fact ended up with to much over the river was pulling back to engage Brits heading to take flags. Not how I like to play lots of multi units in hex smoke is key plus Mech assault with Halftracks, also wrong terrain for MGs so just use them to Z fire.
Game ended turn 8 when captured all flags screenshot provided decisive victory

[DRG]

I waited too long before starting the push across the river . I was trying to time it to avoid the CA but that will drive the Brit casualties up. Where I was at turn 9 was where I should have been on turn 6 or 7.

Nice work getting the decisive victory.

Don

[JTullman]

Thanks for the help guys. Yeah it dawned on me that I shouldn't even be messing with the guys in the south. I've managed to pull a draw out of it but I'm still not satisfied.

I'm not sure how I've missed this one all of these years.

[JTullman]

I've finally managed to get a marginal victory.

I just left my infantry where they stood I did not move them once.

I gathered my half-tracks and stugs and just crossed the river north of the bridges. With smoke to keep the 17 pounder off my balls I took the capture points in 7 turns.

I really think the British Heavy Infantry (they were actually 'highland infantry' Scots) are unrealistic in this scenario. Shell'em, park next to them (5 half-tracks) and lay it on 'em. Absolutely nothing. I didn't inflict damage on a single squad. But I got them to retreat out of the victory hexes. Unbelievable. Oh yeah did I mention that each squad has 8 rounds of PIAT ammo 18 grenades (mills) and a 2in morter in their pocket. That's an awful nice weapons cache. Just ridiculous.

Enough of my whining. I got a victory after a night and a half of fighting this tiny scenario

[DRG]

If you "didn't inflict damage on a single squad" then maybe you need to check your preference settings becasue you can see how many casualties the Brits took in Imps results and my results on my second go through mirror that and not a single one of those 2 in mortar squads survived the experience

Don

[Imp]

Just a point I have only scratched the scenerios as there are quite a lot of them but difficulty varies greatly, must be very hard for designers trying to cover diffrent skill levels & in many cases historical situations. Some the AI does not stand a chance but have played a couple of others where I have been well & truely in the pooh. This never bothered me its the challenge that counts if they are hard to win or you are hanging on for a draw or worse is that not more involving than an easy victory.
These are the only ones I have played 6 months later to see if I can do better.

[JTullman]

What settings do you recommend I use? Currently I have everything at 100% with everything turned ON.

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

What settings do you recommend I use? Currently I have everything at 100% with everything turned ON.

That's the default setting, i just turn Ai tank heavy off

[Imp]

Thats what I would recomend.
Do on occasion turn spotting down in low visibility games as feel becomes much harder, seeing on a dark night or in a thunderstorm is not easy & seems to make finding infantry more difficult while making little or no diffrence to finding vehicles unless stationary in cover.

For generated battles have tank heavy off as I think AI buys more realisticly though not a lot in it.

[JTullman]

Hmmm... Looking at the Manual, AI Tank Heavy wouldn't have any effect on this scenario, right?
No this is just a really difficult scenario. :hurt: The best thing to do is across from the north. Anything else results in a draw or loss.

[Imp]

Correct tank heavy only effects generated battles but there are several scenerios a lot harder than this in my view. Nothing like realising your getting your arse whupped by the AI & struggling to hang on. If you like campaigns try the ANZAC one no problems with time here long battles, strongly suggest you follow designers notes & take the easy option. Not for the feint hearted probably the closest the AI comes to being human.

[nuNce]

Got a go of this scenario and got annoyed of bulletproof british at turn 4. I don't like scenarios which have to be replayed to be won, feels to me more like a puzzle to solve rather than an actual battle.

[DRG]

ALL battles are puzzles to solve. This one requires a bit of consideration from the player beyond the obvious you see at set up. The British in this scenario are NO DIFFERENT than they are anywhere else in the game AND they have NO special experience or morale ratings that make them any different than they are normally.

Anyone who thinks the infantry is "bullet proof" in this scenario will find they are no different when dug in in every other scenario and in generated battles.

The premise of this thread was that this scenario was "impossible" to win. It's not "impossible" to win . "IMP" proved that it's not and so did the people who playtested it years ago when it was first put into the game.



Don

[RightDeve]

Anyone wanna play it against me on this? PBeM?
With a different troop composition but the same objective area?
hahaa

[Roman]

Just coincidence that had a post about this scenario
Campaigns, Scenarios & Maps.
I just managed to decisive victories and draws in this scenario. Generally not use the platoons in the south. Use B and C squads with armored cars. Amount soldiers and I cross the river in a straight line to the right, taking as a squad B1. Going to see a depression before crossing the River. For this sector are covered with depressions in the ground. I've come to the forest and the car armed with cannon near the trenches with flags (north side) to kill British cars. Until there is easy but then gets complicated.
Before bombing the area know there are houses where a mortar English (intelligence jejej told me. I know from previous attacks fustrado) Treatment mg hammering in forests where there are enemies. This distracted the English bombing but my mortars to bombard me. With armored cars took the flag but at the cost of losing most of the platoon B and C. Now that I know a little more than try to use smoke to attack the southern ss.
With the scouts can see the anti-tank gun but if you pass by where I do not attack you. The crossing is in the hex 35.13 and can hide in 36.13 and 37.13.

[Roman]

Sorry I could only marginal victories and draws. The decisive victory was only wishful thinking ....

[JTullman]

I was out of line saying that this scenario is 'impossible' obviously that is not true, as others and myself have found out.

I was a little sleep deprived and really frustrated that night/next day. :mad:

However Don, that should go as a compliment that I like the game so much I lose sleep over it :D a frequent occurrence at my house.

Yes I agree with Roman either ignore the SS to south (use as arty decoys, a tragic waste) or move them slowly with cover of smoke. As mentioned by others to win you must attack at the north.

I won simply by crossing the river high north and 'stealing' the victory hexes. The battle was actually quite gory for 2 of them.

The design of this scenario is masterful, sneaky and just plain devious. One of the best little ones!

[RightDeve]

I just don't see it as a pure and real wargaming to play a scenario a thousand times only to get that holy grail text "You get DECISIVE VICTORY".
That's why the game is supplied with random battle generator.
The point is "test your skill by fighting blind"

When I fight against the A/I, it's really waay more satisfying to get a tough battle and then defeated by the A/I (of course in a one-flow battle).
Winning against the computer is sure a usual thing. To be defeated, its a different story (and you can boast the A/I's overwhelming action against you on the AAR section).

Different folks, different strokes

[nuNce]

I just don't see it as a pure and real wargaming to play a scenario a thousand times only to get that holy grail text "You get DECISIVE VICTORY".
That's why the game is supplied with random battle generator.
The point is "test your skill by fighting blind"

Same here. That's why I love the LC battles with over 40 turns to fight, retreat, counterattack, manouver. Playing a scenario twice for me loses half the fun, and feels to me like cheating. It's the same difference there is between playing a chess puzzle and a chess game. But many people like chess puzzles. :)

[DRG]

You will find that many scenarios in the game are very difficult to achieve a decisive victory. I always encourage scenario designers to create ones that will challenge players with various skill levels and hopefully challenge them enough to play it over again. Because of the variables with the British Arty this one could be played over and over and never see the same thing quite the same way each time. Some scenarios you will find have victory conditions that simply say you win if you have more points at the end than the AI

Don

[Roman]

As they say "competition is more important than winning." Not always achieve decisive victories. But taking aim for the best result in a scenario is good because it forces you to implement various tactics. In my case I implemented the detailed observation of the terrain, directions of attack options, such as using smoke among others. Being a short scene allows me to take me longer. Besides the manual is one of the scenarios that suggest to learn to play so my personal interest in this scenario. At the tutorial does not know how many times did the least to learn (and do not understand much English). Making the comparison with chess is like studying movements or famous plays jejeje.
I like the campaigns and battles in this game generated but the scenarios also have their own.
This is the beauty of the game. That has plenty of options. Everyone has the freedom to play as he pleases.
I'm learning to use more smoke and later the south and may participate in the battle and I will get my "DECISIVE VICTORY" jajajajaja ..

[RightDeve]

PBeM using this map anyone?
(So you say you're tough enough matey, come face me then! hehehehe ---sorry, no offence, it's a challenge ;) --- )

Signed

[Roman]

It would be interesting to play PBEM But this scenario should change the location of troops, but we know where to strike. I look complicated but if you do a meeting engagement

[gila]

You will find that many scenarios in the game are very difficult to achieve a decisive victory. I always encourage scenario designers to create ones that will challenge players with various skill levels and hopefully challenge them enough to play it over again. Because of the variables with the British Arty this one could be played over and over and never see the same thing quite the same way each time. Some scenarios you will find have victory conditions that simply say you win if you have more points at the end than the AI

Don

I guess for me if i'm not playing person i'd rather play a user created scenario or campaigns there it's more like trying to defeat a more realistic force and who created it.

You have the challenge fighting more exp. seasoned troops vs the AI's that will always greenhorns.

Of course you could dial up favor for the AI, how many actually will do that?

And still it's not the same as the AI doesn't react in crucial situations the way a human does.

Nothing wrong playing the AI,though for testing and trials but don't let it go to ones head too much.;)

I guess i'm going too much,Sorry,if those two other players would get back on track wouldn't have the time to write this.:D

[Imp]

Remember many scenerios certainly when attacking you do not start in best positions, more laid out as moving forward to find contact points. It often pays to reshuffle the lines so you can attack in force in one or two places & not across the whole front as you need local force superiority as the attacker to advance esp if they are dug in. Look at the map like you would if you deployed them & then work towards that, in this case I stayed out of trouble on turn 1 as was not ready & used 3HTs & 2 Stugs to transfer the group in the South North.

[RightDeve]

I guess i'm going too much,Sorry,if those two other players would get back on track wouldn't have the time to write this.

Who you're referring to? You're saying too much indeed, wanna fight me on theBlitz?

Signed, Zen

[Roman]

I got my decisive victory in this scenario. As you make screenshots? Or this game do not have that option?

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

I got my decisive victory in this scenario. As you make screenshots? Or this game do not have that option?
Perhaps "pressing print" screen andthen pasting into an image editor?

[gila]

I got my decisive victory in this scenario. As you make screenshots? Or this game do not have that option?

Print screen button in windowed only! ,then paste to Paint > save to pictures.

When you want to post go to manage attachments :)

[gila]

Also might want to use resolution 1024x768

seems to work better:)

If anyone's interested "scenario 15" this is an element of Patton's 3rd Army to relieve the encircled force at Bastogne.

Always wanted to give this go,now i will.

[Roman]

Thanks iCaMpWiThAWP and gila. I sent a thank you to everyone in the forum. I climb the screenshot of turn 7 and Gavrus where I got all the flags. The remaining 2 turns and I finished but not recorded because he thought the screenshots that just press the print button to save the image somewhere, but it was not so.
If the image is very small climb another.

[gila]

I guess i'm going too much,Sorry,if those two other players would get back on track wouldn't have the time to write this.

Who you're referring to? You're saying too much indeed, wanna fight me on theBlitz?

Signed, Zen

The Blitz??.:rolleyes:

I mostly game on WaW.

[Roman]

Was small. I climb another. Sorry but did not know it

[gila]

Was small. I climb another. Sorry but did not know it

You are getting it.

Just remember to maginfy image and lose the hex grid.

Keep trying:D

[Roman]

I finished to make screenshots

[gila]

That's it your there!

Just get rid of the hexgrids, a little distracting;)

[Roman]

Right. The next sack the hexes

[gila]

Right. The next sack the hexes

It's really your preference on hex grid,some like them i don't use them,

I can understand why one would use them playing the game however.:)

[JTullman]

Yeah hex grid sucks for screen shots but I like it on when I play.
It reminds me of the good old Avalon Hill days. :ghug:

[iCaMpWiThAWP]

Right. The next sack the hexes

It's really your preference on hex grid,some like them i don't use them,

I can understand why one would use them playing the game however.:)
Simple, Without The hex grid it's rather easy to click the wrong hex, i play with them on

[Von_Gerland]

Finally, I figured out how to win this. The most wonderous thing was that I finished just a few moments prior to a blackout in the whole building!
It works this way:

1. Take all your vehicles and move them to the other side of the river across the hexes ## 35,12 and 35, 13. The apc’s should take some of your infantry which starts in the north. It is important to avoid any contact with the enemy at this stage. This is your most important group so I’ll refer to it as the “assault force”.

2. Your infantry and heavy mg’s which start in the north but can’t be loaded into the apc’s move to the woods just north of the road, next to the bridge but stay on the west side of the river.

3. The bulk of your infantry in the south advances to the west or better northwest. Concentrate on the enemy positions to the north which are just south of the road. The enemy is tough, so when you approach you’ll mostly move 1 hex per turn. It is essential to use smoke and area fire. Even if you don’t see the enemy and have (almost) no chances to hit him, it is very important to pin him just to prevent him from firing at you. This biggest group won’t capture any objective hexes but you have to use it to distract the enemy so that he can’t concentrate on your assault group (which crosses the river). And you have to hope that the enemy uses his powerful artillery fire against it rather than against the assault group.

4. Once your assault group has crossed the river, the most difficult part begins. Move all your vehicles as closely as possible to the victory hexes. I know, this way you risk to lose them, but you are under heavy time pressure and you need many mp’s to enter the victory hexes. The enemy apc’s you can easily take out with your Stug’s. You’ll also have to find the right timing when to unload your apc’s: if you do it too early, your infantry might fall an easy pray to the hostile fire but if you take too long, your apc’s might be destroyed with all the passengers inside. And don’t forget about your recon teams which you receive as reinforcements. They are damn good marksmen!

Bottom line:
This scenario is really very difficult (the fourth one I’ve played in spww2). The enemy has a strong position, but since you are attacking him from three sides (the bulk of your infantry from the southwest, some infantry/mg squads from the northern woods and the assault force from the north/northeast on the east side of the river), it can be crushed. Especially when advancing with the assault force on the east bank, try to move far as possible and to lose as few units as possible. Especially the few infantry units in the assault force are in danger of being pinned/eliminated rather quickly. Yes, I know, it is much easier said than done, but after some tries you’ll get a good feeling how to proceed and remember that your mortars can fire smoke which will protect your vehicles from the enemy anti-tank guns.

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to contact me or to write a feedback. Hopefully, I could help, good luck!!!

[Anton]

Thanks for bringing to attention this beautifully composed scenario, JTullman. I spent about eight attempts just to arrive at the general plan of action and then about twelve more to implement it well. My screenshots are attached.