RedDawn (PBEM) - Game Over

[Samhain]

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=RedDawn

Game name: RedDawn
Era: Early Age
Max Players: 6

Map:
Tyrande II
map file --> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=31288
tga file and map description--> http://www.illwinter.com/dom2/maps.html

Mods:
Conceptual Balance 1.6 Complete
download here --> http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=710178

Rules:
No water nations.
Diplomacy is at your own risk.

Settings:
Independents strength 8
Score graphs off
Renaming on
All other options set at default.

Victory Conditions:
Total domination

Pace:
Casual. One turn per day should be the norm.

Nations:
Arcoscephale - Hamburglar
Fomoria - Samhain
Hinnom - SciencePro
Niefelheim - ???
Pangea - ghoul31
Tir Na n'Og - Danakh

[Danakh]

Can i join with Tir Na Nog ?

[Samhain]

You would be welcome to join as Tir Na Nog. I should add, permission is not needed to join. The forum is just here for outside of game communication. Once all of the slots are filled, I'll check this thread one more time to make sure that there are no requests for a delay, then I'll start the game.

Alternately, if we wait too long (a week or so) for the last slot or two to fill, I'll post here to see if the other players would like to get started with a reduced number of adversaries.

[SciencePro]

I'd like to join as himmon.

Are you saying I should just upload my pretender right away?

[Samhain]

Yes, SciencePro, go right ahead and load it whenever you are ready.

[ghoul31]

Pangea

[hamburglar]

I will play as Arcoscephale.

[Wrana]

If there is place still, count me as Lanka, please.

[Samhain]

Sorry, Wrana. ghoul31 filled in the sixth spot as Pangea.

As there are no requests for a delay, it's game on. Good luck and have fun.

[SciencePro]

I’m disappointed in you Ghoul31 for breaking our NAP-3 with no warning.

And I still remember our last game (OperationAnchorage) where you abandoned a big empire to the AI after losing just one battle at the beginning of the game.

If you chose to play this way then that is your choice, but you should realize that people have memories here.

[ghoul31]

I’m disappointed in you Ghoul31 for breaking our NAP-3 with no warning.

And I still remember our last game (OperationAnchorage) where you abandoned a big empire to the AI after losing just one battle at the beginning of the game.

If you chose to play this way then that is your choice, but you should realize that people have memories here.

You made peace with me, then you spend the whole game trying to DOM kill me. So you are the once who broke the peace agreement. I have had enough of your lies and BS.

[SciencePro]

I did nothing to violate our NAP and you know it.

Don't blame me because you decided to build 100 useless pans and only 3 temples.

[ghoul31]

I did nothing to violate our NAP and you know it.

Don't blame me because you decided to build 100 useless pans and only 3 temples.

thats cus I didn't think my ally would try to DOM kill me the whole game . SO F_UCK off already.

[SciencePro]

SO F_UCK off already.

Sigh... you continue to disappoint me.

[Edi]

I did nothing to violate our NAP and you know it.

Don't blame me because you decided to build 100 useless pans and only 3 temples.

thats cus I didn't think my ally would try to DOM kill me the whole game . SO F_UCK off already.
Tone it down. This kind of attitude and language is totally inappropriate.

Your ally did not even have to try to actively domkill you, because if it is as he says and you only had a handful of temples, the mechanics of the game dictate that your dominion is going to get eaten by those of your neighbors. That's what he's trying to tell you.

Ally or not, you must always defend against their dominion. In that regard, there is no NAP, no truce, only war.

[ghoul31]

Your ally did not even have to try to actively domkill you, because if it is as he says and you only had a handful of temples, the mechanics of the game dictate that your dominion is going to get eaten by those of your neighbors. That's what he's trying to tell you.

Ally or not, you must always defend against their dominion. In that regard, there is no NAP, no truce, only war.


I have played like 30 MP games, and I have never had my DOM taken over like that. So it obvious it was an intentional act to wipe me out. When someone is trying to wipe me out, I consider it an act of war. Simple as that.

I have 6 temples and am doing 3 blood sacrificices a turn, and I'm still getting my dominion wiped out. So when he says I only have 3 temples , its a total lie.

[Edi]

Notice that I said IF it is as he says. I have no idea how closely you have read various forum threads on dominion mechanics, but six temples and three blood sacrifices per turn may well not be enough. Starting dominion strength determines a lot of how fast a dominion spreads and the strength of dominion checks, and if he had a significantly higher starting dominion, that may be the cause.

Some of the dominion related issues are anything but straightforward. If you haven't done it yet, now is a good time to read the Bug Shortlist thread. Namely, this post. (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=683941) There's a bright red bug entry there that is eminently relevant to this discussion.

So kindly do not jump to conclusions and spew flames before you have checked out all of the issues.

[SciencePro]

now that i look again i don't have good scouting on your back provinces. I can see the flags but I guess that doesn't mean 100% i can see the temples. So your claim that you built 5 and not 3 may be true. I'm sorry if I jumped to conculsions, I thought that if you saw the flags the temples would pop up on the map filter too.

But building 5 isn't nearly enough. Especially if your base dom strength is less than 10 which i'm guessing yours is. The 20 turns before you attacked me all my slaves have gone to summoning instead of sacrificing. My dominion had hardly spread into Tir's territory at all at that point. Once you started fighting formoria I had every reason to want to keep you around. It wouldn't have made any sense for me to try to dom-kill you and I was trying not hard not to at the cost of spreading my order dominion into my ocean provinces.

But even if I was pumping dom at max speed that isn't a reason to justify breaking a NAP with no warning. If you want to fight me, that is fine. But it's just good sportsmanship to give the three turn notice like you agreed to. This game's rules state diplomacy is non-binding so you aren't required to give notice. But most players would have done so out of courtesy.

[13lackGu4rd]

this isn't the first game in which I notice that ghoul31 suffers from the "everyone is out to get me" syndrome. ghoul31, you really need to relax a bit... paranoia will not help you solve anything, it will only make your current issues much worse. also if you have such problems as a dominion kill against you(intentional or not) you should first talk to the person who you think is doing it to you(especially since you 2 seem to be at peace) than tell him that he's pushing his dominion too hard against you, and that if he won't stop you'll see it as an act of war, or something along those lines... than you'll see whether it was intentional or not to begin with, and if not, as seems to be the case in this situation, than it's more of precautions you need to take, instead of blaming it on your neighbors.

[ghoul31]

also if you have such problems as a dominion kill against you(intentional or not) you should first talk to the person who you think is doing it to you(especially since you 2 seem to be at peace) than tell him that he's pushing his dominion too hard against you, and that if he won't stop you'll see it as an act of war, .

Thats exactly what I did, and he just gave me a really rude response.

[SciencePro]

Between the time you wrote me and the time you attacked me I didn't sacrifice a single slave. If you thought my response was rude, then I'm sorry I didn't mean it that way.

I never could have dom-killed you if you had taken even basic precautions. I only had four blood hunting provinces and did you notice I summoned 4 arch devils, 50 vamps, that grigori and lots of horrors and disease demons? If it was possible to blood hunt in the ocean or if I had better than H1 priests it might be a different story, but when I said I wasn't trying to dom-kill you I meant it.

[ghoul31]

My income just went from 1500 to 97. I don't know how that happened.

[SciencePro]

Utterdark. If only we were getting along better we might want to consider pooling gems for a dispel.

In other news I am in shock that you charmed a MR24 Titan who was in the middle of a bunch of chaff with no penetration items That's got to be the luckiest thing i've seen in any game ever.

[ghoul31]

Utterdark. If only we were getting along better we might want to consider pooling gems for a dispel.

In other news I am in shock that you charmed a MR24 Titan who was in the middle of a bunch of chaff with no penetration items That's got to be the luckiest thing i've seen in any game ever.

If you have enough of those charmers, its not so difficult. I guess they aren't as worthless as you think.

[SciencePro]

Well, at that time there was maybe a 1 in 20 chance to target him and then about 1 in 150 for the spell to take effect. So unless you got hundreds of them somewhere I wouldn't be counting on that ever happening again.

But yeah, I guess they proved their worth against all odds. At least I don't have to worry about you building any more of them.

[SciencePro]

Wow this game is getting really frustrating.

A bug just hurt me big time. I took the virtue armor off the Grigori and I had never cast Ritual of Returning on him but he still acted as if he had the armor on and teleported away in the middle of an important battle. Damn!

[SciencePro]

And there it is on page 283 of the bug thread. Crap.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=672389&highlight=virtue+armor#post672389

[SciencePro]

Ghoul: Good game man and I will see you around. It was fun playing with you. I hope that in the future you consider giving a 3-turn notice before breaking a NAP like most people do on this forum.

Samhain do you realize you have PM's turned off? Is that on purpose?

Ghoul could you send in your final turn so Sam and I could play another turn today instead of having to wait until tomorrow? Or Samhain maybe just force-host since Pan's last turn isn't important.

[ghoul31]

Ghoul: . I hope that in the future you consider giving a 3-turn notice before breaking a NAP like most people do on this forum.
.

In future I hope you don't DOM kill your allies.

[SciencePro]

In future I hope you don't DOM kill your allies.

Whatever you say, dude.

Anyway, could you send in the final turn? You are kind of holding up the game.

[Samhain]

I just did a force host and enabled PM's. (I think. I'm quite the newbie.)

[SciencePro]

Okay good. Thanks. Good luck in the final phase of the game.

[SciencePro]

hmmm my commanders in provinces 44 and 16 totally ignored their move orders. I want back and looked at the previous 2H file and everything was in order. Weird...

[Samhain]

The same happened for me for all but 1 of my commanders in province 21.

[SciencePro]

Yeah i guess the hosting must have been funny or something. It seemed to work okay this time...

so how many nature gems do you think I'll need to steal gift of health back again this time? 150? 250?

[Samhain]

You're going to need a whole lot of gems to take Gift of Health back. But, not as many as you'd need to kill Utterdark ;)

After two thwarted moves from province 21, the second one being kind of costly, I decided to just go around the invisible obstruction.

[SciencePro]

You're going to need a whole lot of gems to take Gift of Health back.

Oh well it doesn't look like I'll get the chance to try. Those buffed morrigans are just too hard to kill.

I give up, which means that you win. Congrats!

Good game everyone.

[Samhain]

I do love them gory gals.

Thanks everyone. That was a very enjoyable game. I especially liked Tir Na n'Og's surprise attack on me at turn 50 and the bit of drama at the end between Pangea and Hinnom. I hope you all had fun as well.