Doomsday 5 - Apo settings

[Ossa]

If you ever wanted to play a non-standart game with huge stacks of troops moving around, this is your game.


Roleplay is heavily encouraged!


Number of players: 10 land and 2 water if noone objects.
Map: Glory of the Gods MP (~230 provinces)
Mods: Most of Burnsabers mod for the Libra game (CBM 1.6, Holy War 0.9, CPCS 0.8 and more magic sites mod)

What do these mods do?
CBM should be popular enough.
Holy war adds more indie sites with useful priests and holy units.
CPCS adds useful multispells (mostly in low-mid phase).
More magic sites is pretty self explenatory, there's just a few more sites.

Age: Late Age
HoF: 15 (renaming not allowed)
Magic sites: 75
Gold/Res/Supply: 300%
Diplomacy: Semi-machiavellian. All pacts must be announced to all players via global PM to be valid - if you violate one pact though, noone else is bound by their NAP to you.
Research: Very difficult
Indie strengh: 7

Players:
1. Ossa - LA Marignon
2. Stagger Lee . LA Man
3. Sensori - LA Ryleth
4. kianduatha - LA Agartha
5. seriozha - LA Pangea
6. KIM - LA Caelum
7. Augusti - LA Pythium
8. Isokron - LA Mictlan
9. Belac - LA TienChi
10. Cicadia - LA Ulm


So, you need to download and enable the following mods for the new game:

Holy war mod:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42638
Crosspath mod:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42165
Magic site mod:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=651411

[Stagger Lee]

Man, please

Two points

Holy War wasn't enabled last time. Looks cool - would like to check it out.

The map is missing a connection from 71 - 85 making 71 a virtual fishbowl (a water province w/no water neighbors). I know that can be fixed if you do it before we start.

[Sensori]

I'd like to have LA R'lyeh, as I mentioned before! :p

And yes, fixing problems like that with the map would be nice.

[kianduatha]

I'm also gonna switch up to LA Agartha. It'll be good to have Holy War back in, too.

[seryozha]

Im in with LA Pan. Just two question:
- Turns would be 24H first and 48h after as usual?
- Victory conditions?

[KIM]

Caelum, please :)

[Agusti]

Pythium please.

[Isokron]

Mictlan please.

[Belac]

LA Tien Chi.

[Ossa]

AHem - can someone edit the map? I have no idea how to do it;)

[Stagger Lee]

AHem - can someone edit the map? I have no idea how to do it;)

Try this one (it's Quitti's from Fractures - see post 59 in that thread):

[Stagger Lee]

BTW - IIRC only one of us started that game completely surrounded by wastelands! :D

[Agusti]

News?

[Cicadian]

This sounds pretty fun. I'll take Ulm Please.

[KIM]

What´s happens with LA CAELUM ?? Who´s ZEN ??

[Ossa]

I've set up the game - note the change to indie strengh to slow initial land grabbing a bit and the change to NAP diplomacy.

Should increase the Roleplaying aspect a bit;)

[Cicadian]

I'm afraid I've joined another game in the meantime and I'm currently at my limit of active games. Many apologies; please consider my spot open.

[rtyffg]

It seems there is an open spot now? May i join as an Ermor, or as Bogarus, if Ermor does not fit?

[Burnsaber]

I see that you are using many of my mods. That's awesome.

Just wanted to say that if any of you, at any point, find something buggy or "not right", under/poweredness of any sort, would he/she please report it so that I can fix it?

If you do not wish to give your opponents information about spells you have researched, magic sites or so forth you can PM in private me instead of reporting to the mod thread in my signature.

[Ossa]

@Cicadia: Well... ok. You'll be missed though;)

@rtyff: Feel free to take any nation you want.

[seryozha]

Which nation is Chelms??? Where are the other players?

[Belac]

Chelms is Late Age Man; We seem to be missing

1. Ossa - LA Marignon
3. Sensori - LA Ryleth
6. KIM - LA Caelum
7. Augusti - LA Pythium

Someone should PM the missing players.

[Agusti]

Hi. I thought this game was "staled", sorry.

I will send my Pretender today and talk with KIM, is a friend.

See you

[Sensori]

Oh, I'm just being an idiot and waiting for EVERYONE ELSE to send their Pretenders first. Because it allows me to procrastinate. :p That is to say that the Pretender I intend to use has been ready for days, maybe even a week or so, but I've been lazy!

I guess I'll see which one of the LA R'lyeh Pretenders was my Pretender and send it sooner rather than later.

EDIT: My Pretender's in, so all that's missing now is Pythium, Caelum and Marignon (which is the host's nation too lawl)!

[Stagger Lee]

Which nation is Chelms??? Where are the other players?

My first LA game, 2 months ago or so, I asked the same exact question in the game thread. It's the only reason I picked them here. Glad to see some activity, I was getting worried! :happy:

[Sensori]

So now we're waiting for Ossa alone?

WAKEY WAKEY! :p

[Agusti]

Where is Ossa? Is this game dead?:(

[Belac]

Ossa is submitting turns and engaging in diplomacy in another game, but he didn't respond to my PM.

Anyone up for starting a new game with the same settings/nations?

[seryozha]

I'm sorry but this game is just taking to much time to start with no good reason. I prefer to quit now and join another game rather than wait more for a dead game to start.

[Ossa]

Just sent in my pretender and will start the game right away;)

Sorry for the delay, had some problems at work taking more time than expected in the last week.

[Belac]

The Glorious and Eternal Empire of Tien Ch'i and the Slightly Less Glorious and Eternal, But Still Glorious and Eternal, Empire of Mictlan swear to peacefully coexist forevermore*.

*Until 3 turns after one of them wishes to cease to peacefully coexist.

[Belac]

I will be unable to submit turns today and request that hosting hold off until tomorrow, if possible or necessary.

[Belac]

Tien Ch'i has signed NAP-3s with Agartha and Pythium. If you believe your nation to have signed an agreement with us, or would like to, or would like to discuss retiring any agreements we have established, please PM us.

Not so fast, Man. We declare war upon you.

[Stagger Lee]

If treaties and pacts are supposed to be announced via global PM, shouldn't the OP be edited to reflect who's actually in the game?

Cicadian (Ulm) is gone. rtyffg (Ermor) is playing. I think.

I also think that announcing treaties here in the thread should be sufficient. The record will be here for all to see. Just start the post with a big, bold NAP, or something.

Similarly, ending a treaty, or declaring war, would be handled the same way. Just differently.

[Belac]

NAP:

We forgot to mention (damned nepotism among the Khans, leads to incompetent bureaucrats) that we also signed a NAP with Caelum.

[KIM]

Sorry , but is impossible to fight against LA ermor.:doh:

All NAP are cancelled.I´ll wait 3 turns and leave the game..

Thanks

KIM

[Belac]

Please reconsider, KIM. It doesn't look as if Ermor is making much progress. Tien Ch'i has recently gained access to indy fire magic and can forge you Just Man's Crosses.

[Stagger Lee]

Sorry , but is impossible to fight against LA ermor.:doh:

All NAP are cancelled.I´ll wait 3 turns and leave the game..

Thanks

KIM

Give Ossa a chance to post for a sub before you go AI, but please give another look at your position.

I will be gone soon. My cap is free of the barbarian stench again but not for long I fear. I'm still a very new player and am to learn something from this mess. :)

You are not losing to Ermor by the graphs, you will get help from other players who don't want Ermor to get too big, and if you have already decided that you can't win, you have an opportunity to try stuff without fear. Take the chance to learn. ;)

[Belac]

That 'barbarian stench' is my armies starving because of your abominable scales. Death-3, really? Seriously, though, you have been fighting quite well, just the numbers were against you (and if they weren't against you so badly, I probably wouldn't have attacked you in the first place).

You are right about Caelum/Ermor, though. I had no idea Ermor wasn't slowly being pushed back and destroyed, and would be glad to help make that happen.

[rtyffg]

You are right about Caelum/Ermor, though. I had no idea Ermor wasn't slowly being pushed back and destroyed, and would be glad to help make that happen.
Ermor says that Ermor was being slowly pushed back and was going to be destroyed. The only thing is that this is a slow process, during which both Caelum and Pythium have reduced research... as well as Ermor. That simple fact should lessen their chances to win entire game on the long run. Still that would be a very early give up of Caelum. It might be understandable after defeating ermor and some some hostilities of who will have capital (there is only one and 2 attackers) but not now.

[Agusti]

Yes, as Pythium all my mages are engaged in my armies fighting against Ermor. My research is poor, i'm focusing in fighting against Ermor. I don't have any other choice.

Ermor has only 14 provinces, yes, but has A LOT of troops. I had a battle where my 150 troops engaged near 1.500 and it will be worse in the next turns (I've spotted some armies with around 4.000 units). :(

Fun, but very difficult. I've been fighting against Ermor since the beggining and "the show must go on" until the destruction of Ermor or Pythium. :)

Let's hope R'yleh can help us to defeat Ermor and his hordes of undead beings.

[rtyffg]

Your scouts might be a little too scared. I do not know of any armies larger than 2.5k.

[Agusti]

Your scouts might be a little too scared. I do not know of any armies larger than 2.5k.

Weel, if you put two armies with 2.000 units in a province = 4.000.

[Belac]

Tien Ch'i is opening its forges. We will have Just Man's Crosses and Enormous Cauldrons of Broth available soon. Possibly other fire-based trinkets (charcoal shields would be good to give to Caelian Storm Generals to drop into the Ermor backfield), depending on the randoms we get on our indy fire mages.

[rtyffg]

Do you really need a summary might of 87 provinces against just a cornered, 15-provinced Ermor? ) Are not you concerned at all about 70-provinced Mictlan, which leads the research as well? There are 6 nations larger, then Ermor right now. Maybe you are fearing Ermor a little too much?

[Belac]

Tien Ch'i does not fear 14-province Ermor. We fear the Ermor that would reach our borders if the Gods of Caelum and Pythium go AI or are subsumed. We would like Ermor to remain a manageable size. Also, terrorist attacks using Bane Venom Charms are against interdivinal law, which clearly states that civilians can only be attacked via blood magic, death scales, remote-attack magic, and pillaging.

[Belac]

Tien Ch'i will retire its NAP-3 with Agartha in the hopes that there will be some Agartha left in 3 turns.

[rtyffg]

Tien Ch'i does not fear 14-province Ermor. We fear the Ermor that would reach our borders if the Gods of Caelum and Pythium go AI or are subsumed. We would like Ermor to remain a manageable size. Also, terrorist attacks using Bane Venom Charms are against interdivinal law, which clearly states that civilians can only be attacked via blood magic, death scales, remote-attack magic, and pillaging.
Ermorians do not know of the law you are talking about, maybe they were a little.. dead at the time it was decreed? ) Also we would gladly use another ways of attacking those so-called "civilians" if we could at the time.

[Agusti]

I cannot understand players who prefer to attack weak nations than the stronger ones. I cannot attack Mictlan with Ermor attacking me but, what are doing the other nations? Anyone is going to attack Mictlan? Or you are waiting that Caelum and me defeat Ermor to attack then to us, the weakest ones?.

Sooner or later Mictland will be unstoppeable. Anyone is going to attack him? Because is not, then it would be better to stop this game and declare Mictland the winner.

[Belac]

What would the point be of my fighting Mictlan? Alone, I would lose. Agartha cannot help, it's busy. If Caelum goes AI, Ermor will eventually reach my borders and be a very bad neighbor. My only hope is to keep growing in power so I don't fall too far behind. Marignon is also growing very powerful, I don't think Mictlan can take on the whole world.

[Agusti]

I will put Pythium under IA.

You can take my provinces. NAPs broken.

See you and good luck.

[Sensori]

The problem is that just like in Doomsday4, the map is STILL too large for such a low number of people. :( Sure, there's 227 land provinces, but there's also 47 sea provinces. That leads to 27,4 provinces per player in a perfect world, which still is quite a bit too much, especially in a high gold/resource game.

But instead of a perfect situation we got the same we got in the earlier game. One or two people getting (near-)perfect starts with lots and lots of indies around 'em rather than other players while most others were clumped together like nobody's business, leading to either quite early wars or stunted growth.

In my opinion, having seen this happen with even less people and now 10, this map would need like twice the people to work with the settings we're running with. 300% everything is a bit excessive when there's a chance that someone'll get like 50+ provinces from INDIES alone. Should've had a 150 province map at most.

[Belac]

Also it's an unbalanced map. An amphibious nation starting in the southwest will kill on Glory. Mictlan should start in the southeast, or at least have R'lyeh starting in the center ocean. Perhaps R'yleh in the central ocean, Mictlan in the far southeast, Ermor where it started, Tien Ch'i starting just north of where it did, Agartha starting just north of where it did, Marignon starting in the far southeast, Pangaea starting in the far south, and Man moving to where Mictlan started.

Still, I don't think it's over. Tien Ch'i is looking forward to a glorious charge East and a last stand against the nihilist undead empire and anyone else who may attack us.

[Isokron]

I would have to agree that the map was much too big for the number of players and settings. My next war (after agartha) will probably require lots and lots of (micro)managment regardless of who it will be against.

[Belac]

I actually enjoy the huge size. Lots of micro yes, but ridiculous power.

However, the huge size kind of reduces the effect of the very difficult research. I'm not too far behind how I would be in a normal game.

[Ossa]

Hm... I didnt belive it would be too large, but you seem to prove me wrong against.

I dont think its already over, although Mictlan has a large lead in almost everything. Actually I'm enjoining myself tremendously in this game;)

[Isokron]

I think im actually running ahead of a normal games research, very hard is just 250% more expensive research while we have 300% more gold and also more provinces than normal.

I dont think Mictlan has won either, in fact I think they have little chance to win and should just be ignored by everyone.

[Belac]

Mictlan is very powerful, since it was able to get uncontested most of the main ocean. However, that makes it a clear frontrunner and thus a bit of a target...

[Belac]

I may not get my turn in today. COuld I ask for a 24-hour extension? Also, would we be ok with moving to 48-hour deadlines, as micro is starting to increase on our 45+-province empires?

[Stagger Lee]

I may not get my turn in today. COuld I ask for a 24-hour extension? Also, would we be ok with moving to 48-hour deadlines, as micro is starting to increase on our 45+-province empires?

Trying to figure out how to feed that horde of yours? ;)

[Belac]

I may not get my turn in today. COuld I ask for a 24-hour extension? Also, would we be ok with moving to 48-hour deadlines, as micro is starting to increase on our 45+-province empires?

Trying to figure out how to feed that horde of yours? ;)

Starving archers can beat the AI and shoot down undead. My troop movements take like 10 minutes. I'm recruiting something like 30 mages a turn, forging and site-searching. That takes the time.

[Sensori]

For some reason I'm not getting my turn. :confused: I even requested a resend, but nothing has come my way as of yet.

EDIT: Now I got it. I think my email thingie was being a bit overzealous, but now it's fixed.

[Isokron]

I think its time that we move to 48h turns also.

[Sensori]

Yeah, 48h timer would be nice. Amassing all these freespawn gimps to get massacred by the AI is hard work. :hurt:

[Stagger Lee]

Good game all. See ya!

[rtyffg]

Can we please postpone hosting by 18h? Suddenly found i won't be able to make move until then.

[Belac]

Well I for one don't think I can stop Mictlan.

[Sensori]

I for one think this game's been a joke for a while now anyway. This is just like the earlier try we had (whichever it was that we actually played, 3 or 4?), except this time instead of two players having too good positions to begin with, there's just one.

In retrospect, it would've made a world of difference if I had started in the BIG sea rather than the small one, while most other stuff would've stayed the same. Mictlan wouldn't have grown into the sea and to the other side of it and whatnot. :p

[Belac]

I think Glory is a problematic map. The SE corner can really only fit 1 nation (if there are 2, 1 of them is hosed depending on how fast the NE land nation expands south), and because of long coastlines the efficacy of a land nation's success depends greatly on how far from the coast it is.

Also, LA is naturally weird with water because instead of 3 UW-start nations there's R'lyeh, Mictlan, and Atlantis (plus Ermor kind of).

[Belac]

Also, due to unexpected internet outage I am forced to ask for +12 hours to the turn.

[Sensori]

Guys... How about instead of continuing this, um, "game", we just call it quits? Considering that one nation has done again what happened in Doomsday 4, took over a massive number of provinces when they were INDIES and thus became nigh invincible (only compounded by the fact that Mictlan gets a ton of national blood summons) while others couldn't do the same due to being placed on the map in a bigass cluster, this game has lost any fun factor Dominions games tend to have.

Basically, this game's been another case of too few players on a too large map with too random start locations.

[Isokron]

My turns take quite a while to do so if you don't want to fight on I would be willing to end the game.

[Sensori]

It's far less about not wanting to fight on as it is for the same exact reasons that came up in Doomsday 4:

This game is pointless and not fun. Well, except possibly for those who are so much in the lead that there's no way anyone's gonna stop 'em. The massive amounts of provinces and idiotic positioning of nations (that's random cap loc positioning for you at its worst) only made the 300% gold bonus even more effective as a way to separate nations into stronger and weaker ones.

This game's still a text book case of a bad map choice combined with random nation positioning making everything kinda awful. Even though it's like a step or two better than Doomsday 4 was simply because the amount of nations was slightly higher, it's still pretty damn bad.

[Ossa]

Yep, I'd also vote for calling it quits. I'll never be able to stop Mictlan now;)

[Belac]

I'm also in favor, and I apologize for starting to stale at the end. I was away this weekend and having real-world crises and it slipped my mind.

[Ossa]

Well - then I'll end this game with Mictlan declared the winner.

[Isokron]

Ok thanks for the game, if we are to play any games with these settings in the future I think we should try to find a map with about 10 provinces per player and preferably wrap around.