Multiera Mithril Might (Started)

[Torin]

MP game at Llamaserver PBEM
mmight2 page at llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=mmight2)

:ham:Mods
Single age Complete (original mod) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6299&d=1212179279)
(Make a copy of your SingleAgeComplete.dm and rename it to "Single Age mod.dm". It is llamaserver problem with multiage games.) :pointright: Link to edited single age mod for use with llamaserver (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9399&d=1265404363)
:pointright: CBM 1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43949)
:pointright: Streamers & Standards (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989)

:world:Map
:pointright:Alexander (No Sites) (http://dom3maps.wikidot.com/system:alexander)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/uploads/573516-Alexander%20Thumb.png


:argue:Diplomacy
Treaties are private & exclusive inside the signers.
An other option is to make it public in the thread when it's signed to avoid future discussions if theres a pact-break you have some record.

No special conditions or house rules
if you are playing for fun (and to win the game) you are welcome.


:aol:Players
(Names are actually links tought to private message regarding diplomacy)

Tollund (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=32161) - MA Rlyeh
BigDaddy (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=6480) - LA Mictlan
Torin (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=9614) - EA Acrocephale
Militarist (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=34704) - EA Hinnom
anonymity (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=34447) - LA Bogarus
Festin (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=10939) - MA Ermor
Ghoul31 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=24578) - EA Niefelheim
Meglobob (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=8123) - EA Malverni
Cicero (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=35099) - MA Oceania
Krec (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=9807) - MA Marignon
13lackGu4rd (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=34557) - EA Lanka
Zeldor (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=9494) (replaced by cleveland (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=9489))- MA Pythium
Baalz (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=5218) - EA Fomoria

[Tollund]

MA R'lyeh for me.

[BigDaddy]

I'd like to try LA Mictlan.

Yes, I'm playing for fun.

[Torin]

edited first post. Links added.
I think ill ban LA Ermor & Rlieh

[militarist]

Ea Hinnom

[anonymity]

LA Bogarus please

[Sombre]

I thought llamaserver was unable to deal with mods that have spaces in the filenames?

[Torin]

let me check. because i played like this before. maybe its with _

[Festin]

MA Ermor please.

[ghoul31]

Niefelheim

[BigDaddy]

I don't know what mod they use, what they have is a switch were you select age, and you select 'multi' so you might need to check (with someone as to) which mod it uses when you select 'multi' from the setup pulldown menu.

[Meglobob]

I will give Ea Marverni another go, probably won't last long vs some of the nations already choosen but heh-ho...:)

[Torin]

yes i dont check any mod for multiage when i create the game at llama.
just select multiage.
but the players must enable a mod while creating pretender tough.
its the one I outlined. I have that already done for the procyon game i played.
but let me see my mod folder later today for details. I think its the renaming thing i said in the first post.

[BigDaddy]

It might work best if you just upload your copy right here, then we can skip any drama. Then we can all use it "as you have it."

[Torin]

Its as i said. Check the past threads

Procyon Game (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42188&highlight=procyon&page=2)

Madness game (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41895&page=17)

Im willing to wait a bit longer to get some more players in. I would like a bigger game.

[Cicero]

MA Caelum for me :)

[Krec]

MA Marignon

[13lackGu4rd]

Lanka for me please

[Torin]

Now we are 11 we could start. My only concern is that we have only 1 water nation. I think that at least 1 more water nation is needed.
Maybe one of us could switch to water or maybe Tollund can switch to land.
I am willing to switch if no one else does.

[Zeldor]

Can I join? I think I have one slot free now after exams :)

P.S. Isn't it better to ask only water nation to switch to land nation and play it land-only? The more I play, the more I feel that water nations make every game less interesting and more static.

[Torin]

certainly you can join. Since this is multiera theres room for many players.
Tollund is the one that has to decide about wn.
Water nations are not as game brakers as LA Ermor or Rlieh as fishies have trouble invading land nations.
But if theres only 1 then...

[Zeldor]

ok, MA Pythium for me, pretender ready

Water nations are not game breaking, they just make game more static, as it's hard to do diplomacy with them, invade them properly or get properly invaded. But well, just my opinion :)

[Cicero]

I can switch to MA Oceania!

[Torin]

Switched!

[Torin]

Well ill see maps later today, say in 10 hours.
Then ill create the game so theres some time for further recruiting
and i expect to have the game created today at llamaserver.
(today in my GMT -3 hour that is)

[Torin]

What about this one? (the wraparound)

Icy Urraparrand v2 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=672807#post672807)

[Cicero]

Have a look at these, I found them in the Llamaserver list:

Antilarium (http://dom3maps.wikidot.com/system:antilarium)

Epotara (http://dom3maps.wikidot.com/system:epotara)

[Torin]

Antilarium has only 12 water prov. And Epotara is too big.
I am aiming to 150 land and 30 water to match 15 prov per player

[Festin]

Sorry, I do not usually use mods other than CBM, so I'll ask just in case: all I need is do get the mods from links in the first post, and it will work fine, right? Or I need to edit something (as mentioned later in the thread)?

[Cicero]

Well, in Llamaserver says that Antilarium is a 182 land + 35 sea.

Anyway with the specified condition, there is only urraparound and a random map called Etruscae, that is a 158 land + 22 sea.

[Torin]

Yes, the age mod must be renamed while you create pretender.
its the name i said in the first post. Its attached to a post in 2 page. Ill link that one to the first post so you have all the mods together.
CBM is the same as usual.
Streamers must be copied into the mods folder but not necesary during pretender creation.

[Baalz]

I've been wanting to take Fomoria out for a spin and this looks like a good high powered game to do so.

[Torin]

Antilarium looks nice but has only 9 land starting locations.
With no fixed starting locations Uraparrand is risky.
Is it a chance that a nation would start with too few neighbours?
Like 2 neighbours?

[Zeldor]

Uraparrand is not not balanced. And it does not support any water nations.

[Cicero]

Well in the user-added map there is Alexander for 15 player

It has:

247 land + 43 sea.
Fixed start positions: 13 land starts and 2 sea starts.
Download link (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=698385)
Alexander map with balanced predefined locations for 15 players (13 + 2)

Actually we are 13(11 land + 2 water) I think this would fit.


Or, Glory of the Gods (multiplayer) has:
227 land + 47 sea.
No fixed starts.

[Torin]

This is the map for the game:
Imperial lakelands. I updated the first post. This file is different to the original because llamaserver wouldnt accept the old name.

I like the map. The only downside is that the provinces are too small.
I can change the settings and the map before kickstarting so everyone send pretenders and checkout the map.

[Torin]

Ignore the previous map (lakelands)
Had to fix start positions so islands are no start

this is the corrected map

[Zeldor]

Hmm... may be brutal for land nations. Water ones have sweet spot. There was not more balanced map? Wraparound? People in corners will have nice game.

[Torin]

Yes, problably not optimal. Im open to suggestions. The maps Cicero proposed are too big i think. Better a map with water connected. If its wrapped, the better. 15 or a bit more provinces per player.

We can change the map while uploading pretenders. Just we cant once we start the game.

[BigDaddy]

My initial readtion was that it was brutal for some players, especially if they get a spot right next to a water player. I don't know if all the land spots are defined, but there is one with only a 1 province gap between. I was immediately fighting over that province. I don't mean its a no go, and the size is destined to produce excitement, if some early rush deaths as well.

[Festin]

What about Orania? Wraparound and enough space.

[Zeldor]

It contains some special provs with uber guys or great recruitables that throw the balance totally off. It'd be cool without those sites or if they were evenly distributed.

[BigDaddy]

nvm, I was thinking Alexander.

[Torin]

yes, 23 provinces per land player is not ubber big. Only a bit slower start.
not all that bad.
im ok with that one now i think of.

[BigDaddy]

If we go with one of the maps that has a lot of impassible divisions, then the wraparound and corners wouldn't be as important. Like the Cradle of Dominions (199-22) or Glory of the God (multiplayer) (227-47). Both are larger than 15 provinces/nation, and the first has a significant shortage of water. GotG is 20 provinces/nation.

Maybe Glory of the Gods (multiplayer)?

[Torin]

nice looking map GoG. Though the 2 seas are separated.

[BigDaddy]

I'm not really sure that would matter. One is 13 provinces and the other 24. The 13 providence one has the nicer places to put into land. Maybe having 24 in your ocean would be that great? Maybe you'd just assume have 13 to yourself. Or maybe just connect 179 and 91?

[Zeldor]

Aren't 2 water starts in that bigger lake? At least they should be. Or you could make them be.

[anonymity]

Anything goes for me. Although some variety would be nice, so I'm not mad-keen on maps included with the game.

[Torin]

Well to get sure I changed the map to something better tested: Alexander (no sites).
So no library in alexandria, etc.

Imperial lakelands is good looking but would require a resize of te image and set several provinces as no start. In the test games ive seen its possible to a starting point with 2 neighbours.

If i had more time i would get a random map with some provinces at no start. That is always fine.

Some players are yet to submit pretenders tough.

[BigDaddy]

Are we using all stock settings? Do you or anyone really want HoF 15 and/or renaming on, I ussually turn those two on, but I really don't care if someone has a preference.

[Torin]

it was 10 HoF but i can change it to 15. Fine with me.
Only Krec is left to upload pretender.

[Krec]

otw

[BigDaddy]

The mods seem to have changed on the game option on the llamaserver site. I just noticed, and thought I'd ask you to double check.

[Torin]

I know. Its buggy. I told Llamabeast.
When I changed the HoF thing the mods simply went out and I cant get them in again.
I may need to delete it and create it again.

[Cicero]

*groan*

[Torin]

*groan* also

[Zeldor]

Hmm... can you maybe PM me admin pass [change it later] so I could take a look? I have hosted many game, so I can try to find solution.

[Torin]

done. I sent to Big Daddy too.

[Zeldor]

Hmm... weird thing, we may need to create new game and ask people to submit pretenders again. As people are ready for 24h timer, they should be able to submit pretender within 24h too, if prompted by email. There is other possible workaround, but that's not a thing that should be relaly used. PMing llamabeast is also an option, but it may be few days till he replies, so recreating would be faster.

[Torin]

seems so. im creating again then

[Torin]

Everyone has to send pretenders again. This time the game name is mmight2

[Zeldor]

You could have used message players option from previous game, easier than PMs :)

[Torin]

right i missed that option
:doh:

[Krec]

locked and loaded:typing:

[Torin]

Only Baalz left to upload.:up:

Tollund banned by Edi for flaming & trolling.:down:

Seems like Tollund will just have to communicate by ingame messages now.:sick:

[militarist]

Time to start!

[Torin]

started!:car:



*First turn long host time & quick host

*following turns 24 hs QH

*when running into late game bigger interval expected.

*Ask for delays the earliest you can. Dont stale!!

Everything worked ok. Seems that the multiage thing was corrected so its Singleagecomplete.dm but i created the pretender with the edited version and worked ok.
Next time just the original mod will be needed.

[anonymity]

It appears the game is asking for SingleAgeComplete.dm, not the renamed version. No problems when I redownloaded the original mod. e: whoops didn't see your edit. yeah it's working fine.

[Krec]

game says looking for Single Age Mod , i have it installled as spec. please help

[Krec]

ok, i got it figured out..........:doh:

[Zeldor]

It looks like some areas are less populated, it's really crowded around me...

[anonymity]

I guess I'm lucky I have a little room, because losing a pretender to turn 1 Circle Masters was a very nasty surprise. They didn't even show up on the turn 2 scouting report, so it wouldn't have mattered had I waited.

[13lackGu4rd]

I guess I'm lucky I have a little room, because losing a pretender to turn 1 Circle Masters was a very nasty surprise. They didn't even show up on the turn 2 scouting report, so it wouldn't have mattered had I waited.

yeah circle masters don't show up on scouting reports, only spies. it was just bad luck on your part...

[Torin]

Circle masters. I was wondering what happened to him.

[militarist]

Will buy forged water-breathing devices, amulets, anything.

[militarist]

Death gems are needed 1:1 have A,E,F

[militarist]

Death gems are needed 1:1 have A,E,F,S

[anonymity]

LA Bogarus is buying one Thistle Mace. PM your price.

[Zeldor]

I lol at your offers.


BTW, Pythium will buy W and A boosters.

[13lackGu4rd]

I need to wish for a player's death(as opposed to merely a pretender's death), and well, I guess I'll need a S9 wisher too to cast it :P

too many neighbors, too little room... bah

[Torin]

So i see people mingling. Good :)

Depending on whom i can spare some pearls too. :bump:

[militarist]

Air boosters needed.

[BigDaddy]

I might not be able to take a turn this weekend. I will do my best, but cannot ensure that I'll be available in any 24hr period, or even necessarily have time and access to a computer (to post here again). By all means, quick host, and I'll try to turn turns in as usual, but please don't skip me if I'm late!

[Torin]

ok. im delaying the hosting now

[BigDaddy]

Is it not on quickhost? I submited my turn over 35 minutes ago.

[Torin]

pythium is left to send the turn

[Zeldor]

Oh, right, let me do it now.

[BigDaddy]

It looks like Bogarus replaced all those horseys with slingers and will be joining me next to my capital with a huge portion of his army, for tea and crumpets, for the next several months.

It nice to see an invader so confident of his safety that he leaves his damaged main army standing around for several turns.

[13lackGu4rd]

oh it's not just Bogarus, it seems that some players in this game are in a suicidal mood...

[BigDaddy]

I told him he'd probably die from attacking me.

I told him my nation would be his graveyard.

Sure, I estimate his odds of defeating me at 50% unless he really needs to save face by completing his suicide on me, sure then he could take me, but I had trouble expanding so I figured I just lead someone into a trap (you can't win em'all). 50% he runs away like a little girl.

Geth, the mighty is a patient lord, he who has won and, he who has lost, and is pleased to see such destruction.

[militarist]

Buying all kinds of gems for gold. Name your price and list of gems you are ok to sell.

[anonymity]

I see no hurry to take on your blood-hunted and overtaxed cap and commit my army to a long siege for little benefit. If you're so confident you can drag me down with you, come and meet me in the field.

[BigDaddy]

I did not recieve a turn file.

[Zeldor]

Request resend from game page then.

[militarist]

I have too many air gems,gold and blood slaves. I need Earth, Astral or death gems, maybe some fire. I'm ready to bargain about rate exchange of gems, or price of buying. If someone is open for trade, let me know. Trading with Hinnom is also good for relation building. Hinnom tries to avoid attacking those who believes in Win/Win life.

[BigDaddy]

:hurt: :clap:

I made an error I won't make again in scripting... thanks for bringing your pretender along.


:rip:

MY NATION IS YOUR GRAVEYARD BOGARUS!!!

[Zeldor]

Can I get 24h more on next turn [after this one hosts]? I have busy Saturday. And maybe we should switch to 36h, quite long for 24h already.

[Torin]

done

[BigDaddy]

Bogarus, may I continue pillaging your second cap or will you come here and risk your crippled force?

Perhaps you'll wait for reinforcements for your army (used to be two armies, but you seem to have lost half your armor?) that has no mages?

What is your rate of return on this investment?

You could still leave with a decent army chassis, but I assume you'll want to continue. I have a special party planned for you.

[anonymity]

You on the other hand seem to be missing a fort and also everything else you have.

[BigDaddy]

Well, that is true. Of course, while I expected that victory was possible, it always seemed that you were quite large... Of course you were my only expansion direction. But, you attacked first. You are under the impression that Bogarus knights don't suck, but are sadly mistaken... the point here, point there difference between bogarus knights and knights that are adequate in mid-game is quite telling, with you losing several turns productions to someone you could have taken quickly if you had summoned something tought to take along. I won't blame you for losing the whole communion though, that might have happened to anyone.

The reality is, that even though you might well be able to take my lands, you don't really have much military force here, and if someone really wants my capital they could just roll into town and take it from you... or even me.

Anyway, you need to move past Bogarus knights or you'll be utterly defeated. They are poor right now (actually seven turns ago when you took my first province they were poor, now you have only three).

I was playing this same matchup with my brother, but I had a similar size country... we ultimately decided that Bogarus knights, while good enough for expansion, and though their stats look OK, for knights... marginal knights just aren't all that good, and you don't put that many hp in a square... so they die too fast to be a really decent front line for your communion, which creamed them itself... but I supoose many of the were doomed either way, because they are crappy.

Now if the masters of the game would come and fight for my capital, I would much appreciate it.

[BigDaddy]

I just did the new turn.

Another 100 horses die. Are you trying to get them killed to reduce your upkeep? That certainly makes sense because of how inefficient the archers and knights are.

It's going to be a year if you actually get my territory... but, somehow I think someone else might think they could take and control this area easily and in a more secure fashion. It is a rich area.

So, I think its funny how you attacked me, a small nation, telling me how much I suck and then take losses greater than I could possibly even output of my own stuff, and take months and months to do so. What part of your two initial armies is even left? Some archers? Pft.

[Graeme Dice]

You are under the impression that Bogarus knights don't suck, but are sadly mistaken... the point here, point there difference between bogarus knights and knights that are adequate in mid-game is quite telling,

Have you checked the stats on Bogarus' cavalry recently? Their heaviest type is nearly identical to tower knights. The only cavalry you'll find with better stats is generally going to be sacred.

[BigDaddy]

You are under the impression that Bogarus knights don't suck, but are sadly mistaken... the point here, point there difference between bogarus knights and knights that are adequate in mid-game is quite telling,

Have you checked the stats on Bogarus' cavalry recently? Their heaviest type is nearly identical to tower knights. The only cavalry you'll find with better stats is generally going to be sacred.

You are correct. Knights in general are just not good massed as I've been seeing them. I've only used centaurs like he's using the knights.

But, you're right, I'd have killed any knight type. He probably should have used a lot more infantry, less and set the knights and infantry forward more... etc (setup commands)... Plus, I confused his archers with some little clumps of 3 slingers at the front of the field :D. He has a lot of archers.

I apologize for mismaligning Bogarus' decent knights, as they seem to have been attacked in other places as well...

[anonymity]

Well we're well into the midgame, and my knights have certainly as you've pointed out outlived their usefulness. I'm not exactly trying to get them killed (you've deployed some very specific counters though), but I don't really see losing my expansion parties at this stage as a big loss.

[BigDaddy]

My poor nation is back in the dark ages...

[13lackGu4rd]

My poor nation is back in the dark ages...

yeah, poor you and your EA Eagle and Jaguar Warriors :doh:
you don't even need your regular "archaic" troops :D

[BigDaddy]

My poor nation is back in the dark ages...

yeah, poor you and your EA Eagle and Jaguar Warriors :doh:
you don't even need your regular "archaic" troops :D

The first few times I played, I thought they were archaic, but the 4th warrior and the feathered warrior are technically heavy infantry with javelins. And the slingers are first rate slingers. This type of slingers can be used to take many indies as it doesn't have a morale or precision penalty and carries a spear.

But, no, I meant that I'm hemorhaging pretty good and want the game over. Or maybe I'm still evil Geth and want to kill some more mages before they can get to my cap:angel.

[ghoul31]

Hinnom and Fomoria are running away wih this game. So you should end just your war and concentrate on those two. And look at the number of troops ermor has. Fighting each other is the last thing you two need to be doing.

We should all make peace and agree just to fight those three.

[BigDaddy]

Pythium was doing fine until he recently got whooped by Formoria.

And I told Bogarus it wasn't a good idea to fight me... I guess I just looked easy to take.

I'm pretty weak though, so maybe Formoria or Hinnon would like to send a small detachment to come visit my capital.

[Meglobob]

I see MA Pythium has gone AI.

Disappointing to see a nation put up no resistance whatsoever to being attacked.

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, Zeldor(Pythium) told me that he lost interest with this game, so when Baalz(Fomoria) air dropped him he just didn't want to bother to fight back(he could if he wanted to, still has a lot of stuff...) so he set himself to AI. he was also looking for a sub this past few days but nobody stood up to take it.

not that I agree with his decision or anything, quite the contrary, and it does suck for the rest of us, but that's the whole(or at least most) of the story behind Pythium going AI...

yeah, now Baalz will basically have free access to all that Pythium territory, so he finally broke out of his shell... but still, the rest of us are by no means powerless, we just need to play it smart...

[Meglobob]

So much for Baalz's good player pledge!

Basically if a player wants to give up he will, pledge or not and thus create a massive game inbalance.

Surprised at Zeldor since he is such a experienced player, megagame winner no less.

[Baalz]

Hinnom and Fomoria are running away wih this game. So you should end just your war and concentrate on those two. And look at the number of troops ermor has. Fighting each other is the last thing you two need to be doing.

We should all make peace and agree just to fight those three.

Really? Are you looking at the same game as me? In what sense is Fomoria running away with the game? Zeldor's dick move notwithstanding I'm middle of the pack in income, gem income & research...a dogpile is more than a little uncalled for...though there are two very clear leaders.

[Zeldor]

Oh, well. Maybe not super gentle move, but surely fitting other players' attitude here :)

I was able to easily [well, ok, easily is overstatement] repel Fomorian forces, but why should I bother, when most of players are not much interested in this game? I had extreme bad luck [18 indie attacks within 27 turns + pretended routed to nowhere]. I was doing lots of diplo, at least I tried. But there was either total ignorance of diplomacy [Hinnom running away situation, Arco's approach too] or well... people doing weird stuff.

I could stay here and try to help someone win [as fighting Fomoria would eliminate both me and him from race for victory], but there was no one really trying to win here [except Hinnom and well, Fomoria]. Just messing around, playing semi-duels etc. With Pythium AI, maybe things will change a bit and revive the game, so balance is changed. Maybe someone will be forced to stop Fomoria. Or maybe someone will grab some of my lands and get stronger and think about playing for real? :) Maybe majority of players that play without any apparent goal will open their eyes and learn something? Treat it as my way of supporting the pledge and trying to make the game continue, not die.

If someone is against this approach - you can roll back and put a sub for Pyth. I tried to get someone interested for over 5 turns, no luck.

P.S.
Baalz is right - Hinnom and Arco are clear leaders.

P.P.S.
And it's also partly thanks to you - instead of paying attention to people running away, you decide to attack someone that was willing to fight one of them. Looks more like your support for Hinnom, so maybe people are right to be pointing you as a target for dogpiling? :)

[Baalz]

Sadly this isn't the first time that I've been in a game that Zeldor decided to torpedo because other players were not playing in a manner that he deemed suitable. On top of directly kicking the game in the nuts he adds the insult to the injury by going on about how terribly all the other players are. I don't think I'll be joining another game he's in. Class act Zeldor, real class act.

[BigDaddy]

So, you guys talk a little on IRC or something and then make assumptions about the players not on IRC? That's what I assume is happening. Not that I could have done much... I might have been able to do more but some genius thought the best thing to do was to attack handful of provinces protected by a lich, rather than going for the fleshy fat neighbors. Whatever, though, I thought, I will still help determine the end of this game. I cannot think of a single way in which I could win, unless I could take uncontested much of someone elses territory.

I really still don't care, I'll keep playing anyway.

It's funny because even if Hinnon gave up, I couldn't quickly take his provinces anyway, and I still wouldn't win!

[Zeldor]

You are right about one game where I overreacted about one people just going AI [not that your words here are really better versed].

And now you are reading what you want to read. You created the pledge, but you are the one joining games and not really following it. The goal for everyone should be to do everything possible to win the game, how is your invasion helping with that? :) You say that I'm kicking the game - you are doing the same by supporting the strongest nation. Isn't kingmaking against the pledge? Sure, you can say that you can attack him later, but that wouldn't happen if I stayed and fought the war, maybe till the end of game.

You prefer to use vulgar words, where I put simple explanation. I could say that you are trying to take revenge for example for me not liking your guides or fighting in another game. But that would be probably a lie. You have the right to attack anyone you want, be it game leader or mid-pack member. And I have the right to go AI, when I see that it can make the game more balanced and wake some people up. And I have the right to comment on people not trying good enough to win - I am not telling they are terrbile, simply suggesting more mature to MP approach. And you should know really well that it's true - you are one of the best players around after all and you know diplomacy quite well.

[Torin]

Well, I postpone hosting till we decide what to do.

[Baalz]

Zeldor, your arrogance is almost beyond belief. I am, as always, playing for a win and there is a lot of stuff going on which you are obviously unaware. There's also almost certainly plenty of stuff that I'm unaware of but from what I've pieced together this looks a whole lot like you couldn't get everyone to join the dogpile that you wanted so you're taking your ball and going home. That's exactly what happened in Art of War. "Newbs don't know how to play" is apparently Zeldor-speak for "I couldn't convince half a dozen people to all stop what they're doing and attack the guy I decided needs to go down". It'd be one thing if you only mouthed off like a jackass, but you then combine it with actions that materially derail the game. It boggles my mind that you can in any way believe that you're on the moral high ground and doing this "for our own good".

[BigDaddy]

If playing kingmaker is against the pledge then the pledge is designed as junk, there many circumstances in which the liklihood of victory is extremely small.

If I ever played a two player and lost 3 early expansion armies, as I did, in this game, I would yield to my opponent. I lost with them. In MP, I might have just a slightly better chance of victory, but to assert that victory is 'possible' is pretty ridiculous... Unless you jsut give me Pythium, then I might be able to win!

[Meglobob]

I have to say that, 'so you're taking your ball and going home' is exactly how I would describe Zeldors attitude and actions. His I am just spicing the game up is a load of rubbish, more like I can't win now and I don't fancy turns and turns of fighting Baalz so I will take the easy way out and go AI.

Also, I am playing to win, Baalz is, I am sure Hinnom, Arco, Lanka and Ermor are too. Well everyone else is fighting on and quite rightly too. We all join to fight other people cause its more fun, not the AI which we can do anytime. Very, very disappointing Zeldor, you would be annoyed if you felt you had a potientially winning position and then someone just bailed and handed there empire over without a fight, completely swinging the balance of power.

[BigDaddy]

Zeldor should have said:

Formoria, your foolish move will cost you dearly. You have attacked the sole possible ally in the struggle against Hinnon. I will destroy you. As for the rest of these pitiful pretenders, they can feast upon our corpse when you find your destruction.

That is actually the angle I would take in defending myself too.

[Meglobob]

I suppose we only have 2 options now:-

1) Continue with MA Pythium AI.

2) Try to find a sub for MA Pythium who is willing to put up a fight and rollback the turn. I believe only the new MA Pythium player would need to redo there turn.

What does everyone think and does anyone know a player who wants some battle practice?

[anonymity]

I don't see what's wrong with what happened.

a) Fomoria believes he can improve his position so that it's more likely to win. He invades Pythium
b) Pythium believes that neither he nor Fomoria can win. He sets himself AI

I don't really understand what's wrong with what's happened here. You pick on the weak and the busy, and quietly build up advantages in research and gem income. If diplo and war doesn't go someone's way, they are well within their rights to set themselves AI. Nothing wrong with either action. Let's keep playing.

[BigDaddy]

I don't see what's wrong with what happened.

a) Fomoria believes he can improve his position so that it's more likely to win. He invades Pythium
b) Pythium believes that neither he nor Fomoria can win. He sets himself AI

I don't really understand what's wrong with what's happened here. You pick on the weak and the busy, and quietly build up advantages in research and gem income. If diplo and war doesn't go someone's way, they are well within their rights to set themselves AI. Nothing wrong with either action. Let's keep playing.

(you lose the value of role playing... the disconnection with actual losing and the greater importance of having fun, and thus, we are lead to believe, once again, that only crappy players lose... for instance, with his good player pledge, I can't tell if Baalz/Zeldor (which is which again?) are actually that conceited... RAWR!!!)

Even now the other nations of the world salivate over our smouldering ashes!

BOE - GayR - USSSSSS...

[militarist]

Putting game on hold and rollback would be good. It's a good idea to do it now.

Finding sub would be good, I'll ask Wrana. If he will reject, it is not bad idea to set game for hold till found.

[Torin]

I would declare militarist the winner myself.

Many were... uncomitted to fight him. And he is leading by a good margin.

[Meglobob]

Yea, I'd go with declaring militarist the winner too, Zeldor's going AI spoilt the game, so lets call it.

[Baalz]

Fine by me, but I claim credit for making Zeldor run away crying.

[13lackGu4rd]

well, if due to the current situation ya'll wish to surrender to Hinnom than the Demonic forces of Lanka won't stand in your way. however the Demonic forces of Lanka will call these pathetic beings who call themselves "nations" are mere spineless cowards. nonetheless, Lanka does not volunteer to be the world's hero in banishing the Hinnom menace, or any other menace for that matter, so if everyboy else lost their wills to fight under the current circumstances than so be it, but for the record this is not the Lankan way.

[BigDaddy]

Anyone can claim they won, but the truth will always be known that Mictlan was the most noble (and evil) victor.

Although, I had a special plan for Fomoria planned in just a few turns... I can tell he's already lost his composure to my superior diplomatic tactis.

[ghoul31]

Pythium would have been wiped out in a few turns anyway. So I don't see how him going AI changes things that much.

Lets keep playing.

[13lackGu4rd]

Pythium would have been wiped out in a few turns anyway. So I don't see how him going AI changes things that much.

Lets keep playing.

and what exactly are you basing this statement on...? Pythium was NOT weak, it could have dealt with Fomoria's air drops and your pathetic blue giants. heck, the only reason I let you live was because Pythium said he'd take care of you, so I focused my attention elsewhere... I can still wipe you out easily if I concentrate all my forces back near our border, which would be foolish for me to do as you're clearly no serious threat to me, and that pathetic excuse of a blue giant rush of yours just melt inside my hot domain...

but don't worry ghoul, if we do continue playing than I won't let you enjoy the spoils that Pythium left us, you'll still be stuck between Marverni and I, powerless to seriously harm either of us.

[BigDaddy]

If we continue, then it is true, the Zeldor will have put the world aflame.

[militarist]

Do not demonize Hinnom :) We even don't eat animals.

[ghoul31]

You certainly love to talk trash blackguard. Are you like 10 years old or something?

You were attacking me 2 on one the whole game and couldn't kill me. So everything you are saying is total nonsense.

[BigDaddy]

Aw, we could half cede to Hinnom and then play king of the hill the rest of the game.

[anonymity]

Well whatever. This game doesn't feel anywhere close to finished, but if half the players want to call it quits I guess they know something I don't... honestly it's a little sad really. If all you play for is to win then you might as well end every game at turn 30.

[cleveland]

Ugh, this is ugly.

Roll back, I'll take over Pythium. Can start tomorrow night. dom3cleveland [at] gmail [dot] com

[BigDaddy]

Well, you have chosen Kyaxares, heretic! Yet another nation too frightened to declare war one the mighty Mictlan!

But, seriously, thanks for offering to take over. How's a guy to get squashed properly if everyone quits before the first person is even eliminated?

[Meglobob]

Thanks Cleveland, MA Pythium is still powerful so you should be able to have some fun with the nation.

Can we do a rollback Torin and get the Ma Pythiums trn file to Cleveland?

[Torin]

Rolled Back. Pythium controlled by cleveland.
Llamaserver said a new version has been released.
Backup the entire dominions folder before patching (as said by llamabeast)
3.24

[Torin]

I claim credit for making Zeldor run away crying.

I wonder if Baalz read my welcome message at page #1

if you are playing for fun (and to win the game) you are welcome

[13lackGu4rd]

Rolled Back. Pythium controlled by cleveland.
Llamaserver said a new version has been released.
Backup the entire dominions folder before patching (as said by llamabeast)
3.24

but only Cleveland needs to resubmit the turn right? the rest of us still have their turns stored on llamaserver.

[Torin]

Everyone has to redo. But im not sure if its in 3.23b or 3.24
Better backup the dominons folder before pathcing.

[Zeldor]

Old files are kept if you roll back. It shows as not received to see who submitted.

[Krec]

i am completely lost , someone quit and the turn is rolled back or something ?, fill me in . heck , i lost a turn a while back but just played on , wish i could roll that one back. so help me out whats going on? . i am not real big on redos. i can almost guarantee nobody does the same thing again.

[Festin]

Just in case - I'll be offline until Thursday evening. I hope the next turn won't be needed until I'm back.

[Torin]

then i will just leave it in a very long host & quickhost (sounds weird)

[Torin]

(next turn)

[BigDaddy]

This coming turn isn't even due until friday. I haven't done mine, and Cleveland hasn't done his... could take a while for Cleveland to make a good turn, being as he's not only a new sub, and at war, but having just suffered a substantial attack.

[anonymity]

So do I re-do my turn, or do I do nothing? Like Krec I'm totally lost as to what I'm supposed to do.

[Torin]

hai postponed
redo. It was necessary to go back to be able to give Pythium to cleveland. Maybe its unfair to players on war.
Maybe theyll have to make new surprising moves.

[cleveland]

THE ADMINISTRATION WOULD LIKE TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE LAST FEW TURNS. THE PLAYERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE TURNS HAVE BEEN SACKED AND REPLACED WITH NEW PLAYERS. WE APOLOGIZE TO ANY AUSTRALIANS WE MAY HAVE OFFENDED, NAMED BRUCE OR OTHERWISE.

Got my turn, is working fine. Will take some time to properly formulate the inevitable expulsion of the one-eyed wonder weasels. ;)

[Baalz]

WE SIT ON YOUR FACE. Ppppppt!

[Krec]

can somebody please explain what is going on ?

[Torin]

quoting myself from this page a little upwards
It was necessary to go back to be able to give Pythium to cleveland

again

[Meglobob]

Come on guys, its simple, just save the rollback turn as normal. When you fire up dom3 you will probably find all your orders done (I did), then you can choose what to change (if anything) and just send your 2h as normal.

Simples!

You can do this turn btw with or without the new version of dom3 but next turn you will need the new version to play your turn.

This game was flying, lets get over this, 'hiccup' and get back on track.

[Baalz]

Uh, actually it's pretty bad form to redo your turn when you know what the results are. Not that I object to the rollback in this situations, but that's one of the potentially really annoying things about rollbacks - I beat your army so you move such that the fight doesn't happen.

[militarist]

E/D gems are needed. Air or other are available for exchange.

Or, if someone need them just in some remote future but doesn't need now, I can land them for some reasonable profit. Especially it's related to E.

[militarist]

Will buy some boosters:

Moonvine Bracelet (req Con6, N3S1, Misc. slot)
Armor of Twisting Thorns (req Con4, B3N2, Chest slot, cannot be removed)
Skull of Fire (req Con6, F1D1, Misc. slot)

[militarist]

Will buy E gems for FAW...Need this turn (maybe next one also)
I need 24 E gems summary, fast.
Will pay 2 gems from FAW for each E, if transaction will be done this turn.

[13lackGu4rd]

going out of town until thursday, my current turn is in but I won't be able to play the next turn until I get back, so I'll need an extension...

[Torin]

ok. extended

[13lackGu4rd]

ok. extended

for next turn not this 1 ;)

[Meglobob]

Can we change the turnaround from 36hrs to 48 hrs? 48hrs is the norm for around turn 40'ish, 36 is annoying.

[Torin]

extended. i will need a brake until monday. because im going out of town.

[militarist]

Greetings. Baalz 2 turns ago extended NAP3 to NAP5, and this turn he attacked our peaceful nation ignoring NAP. People of Hinnom has no real army to defend, so the game probably knows the winner. If the world will not consolidate against the tyrant, we all can predict future without any fortune tellers.

I also believe NAPs with Fomoria should not be respected and considered void.

[Baalz]

Yep, anyone who puts up the Arcane Nexus should definitely consider any NAPs void. Also anybody who thinks Hinnom is gonna be a pushover after sitting on the forge for several turns and now having the nexus up on top of a mature blood economy fueling never ending artifact laden SCs should definitely attack me immediately to keep me from winning. It should be practically impossible to stop my frost brand wielding kings...

[militarist]

I would defenitely respect your position, if you attacked immidiately after my castings. We thought it will bother you,of course (and it should!) so I asked you if you are ok. You proposed NAP5 2 turns ago, after I had both globals. And when one of globals is off (which brought me 12 cheap hammers, and not much more of use, just I had no time). And I really had no economical possibility to build blood economy and AN was needed mostly to prevent others from casting it, as I do the most of spellcasting and fill the arcane. And at this stage of the game it is still easy to win anyone saving your face, in bounds of dimoplacy - through forming alliances, etc.
I have no army, almost have no items, btw.
I would understend such NAP breaking in 1:1 (if in 1:1 would be any place for NAPS :)), or if you was 4-5th in charts.

So, your attack is still a NAP-breaking preventive action,there is not heroic situation. Your economy is much better for warfare.
Oh, that's ok. It changes nothing, in my statements. NAP was broken, it was direct diplomatic lying 2 turns before. You, of course, have some words to justify it. Any aggressor has.
We will try to fight back, of course, but my army which consists of naked Ammi-es - random 2 magic pick researches, eating all my budget and not allowing to buy any real army, is not the strongest kind of the army, and all the world should be ready to face Fomoria with 80-90 provinces in a few turns. :)

I'm not complaining, I'm just explaining 2 things: the future of the world, and the fact that NAPs with Fomoria in this game could be ignored, as they broke diplomacy when there still were means for it. And, being second in charts did it to win the game, not to avoid loosing (there is a thin line between 2 of these but still it's exists and makes difference).

[anonymity]

For some people, even casting Forge of the Ancients or Burden of Time is considered a violation of NAPs. I limit it to the big 3 (Utterdark, Nexus, Corruption) myself.

Now, I can see that negotiating NAPs after casting to be the big point against Baalz's case here. But had he not done that, a few turns preparation wouldn't be out of place. No rule that even though someone has no NAPs anymore, that they must attack immediately.

[militarist]

2 turns ago Hinnom proposed Fomoria 2 choices, either signing long term peace, or, if it will not be signed, or our message will be ignored - to treat our NAP3 as ended and prepare for war (we were not ready for it just as now, but fomoria was not ready either and we at least had time to protect ourselves). It was done exactly because of AN cast. I had to understand -does it make our NAP void. Fomoria didn't like the idea of war, and signed NAP5. The only thing which has changed since that moment - we have lost Forge of ancients. It's OK to stop playing dimoplacy when some cool spell is on, but saying "no, I don't want war, let's sign NAP5" and attacking, it's something worth mentioning either in a new Baalz guide "winning dimoplacy game" - how to do it and remain good in eyes of others to avoid being targeted first in all MP games, or to "Baalz' good player pledge" - some amazing ground of people behavior, which added a lot of value to community.

I'm not complaining on Baalz approach to ethics, btw. It's my second game when I've met him and I have 3d one, where we also at war. Earlier he defenitely acted in bounds of his , quite high diplomacy standards, that's the only situation which is not flawless , just it would be cool to have them described in a new guide :)

[Zeldor]

militarist:

Spells like: Burden of Time, Forge of the Ancients, Arcane Nexus, Astral Corruption, Gift of Nature's bounty

are considered declaration of war against everyone and make all NAPs null and void. Of course it makes you really bad if you attack someone you had NAP with and cast one of those globals later. So yes, you had a NAP, you cast Forge, you cannot consider that your NAP with him is done, if you attack him, it'll be violating NAP and you will get bad reputaion. But anyone can attack you whenever he wants. And he may say whatever he wants to cover his tracks, even saying that he is not going to attack.

It's how it works with those globals, because some [Nexus and Forge] are like putting signs "I win, try to stop me if you can". And using it with one of the most powerful nations is not helping :)

[militarist]

Zeldor: community creates such rules like you described with one obvious reason - to protect games from ruining by OP players who turn the game into multi-month suffering of others. It's like a revolution in a country (the closed system), a thing which is very bad in general, but without one we still would have slavery. It happens when diplomacy just has no sense anymore. Everyone sees army size chart.

And, anyway, it's in bounds of the term "non-binding diplomacy ", so i don't say that some kind of game rules are broken. Just the diplomacy ethic in MY personal understanding is broken by the player who seems to have an understanding of ethics. And the NAP can be broken not because someone cast AN - that's YOUR PERSONAL understanding of widely accepted practice, again. And this opinion ,though formally can exist, doesn't add value to the non-written rules which are developed with the main goal - to keep the game playable and bring more fun. And you just ignore the context of things which happened. You could have right to be so formal in a case it would be a written rule in this game - "who cast AN should forget about after-cast diplomacy". If you are referring to a non-written rules, then you refer to player ethics. And if you refer to ethics, you should take the current context into account.

I.E. I understand what you say in general, but any situation has details. And we know, the saying "Devil in the Details". And we are discussing not justification of attacking the one who cast AN without waiting end of NAP. It's OK with it, it's widely discussed in forums in many threads. We are discussing situation when after-AN diplomacy was made, and this, at my humble opinion, should mean something.

Edited.

[Baalz]

I understand how it could be frustrating, but to be honest I didn't notice AN was up until last turn, I though it just went up (got a notification that some global was cast, looked at the list and saw AN). If it makes my actions any clearer I dropped everything I was doing immediately when I saw AN up and threw the kitchen sink at you. :)

In answer to your query, NAPs are rather loosely defined in the community and what people think violates them (or gives you grounds to ignore them) varies from person to person. My own view is that signing a NAP is akin to saying that we'll stay out of each others way for now...but that is violated by anything that is done to directly disadvantage me. You incite unrest with spies, cast anonymous rituals at me, assassinate my guys, fence me in by taking all the indies around me or put up a global that materially affects me and depending on the circumstances I will feel free to make the assessment that you have not upheld the requirement of staying out of my way. Not that I think there's anything dishonorable about doing that, I'm all for trying to squeeze the most use you can out of a NAP. Just don't expect me to sit around and throw the game because of it. :)

[Zeldor]

militarist:

I'm not in the game any more :) I just checked out that thread now, as I was rather bored.

I can surely agree that it'd be good to have all that community diplo rules written down. Maybe you can work with Baalz on that or other vet. There is a large grey aread when it comes to NAPs and what can break them. But it's always better to use wider approach when thinking what to expect. NAPs are about having secure border, so you can focus on other activities. But they are certainly not for letting you win or make an attempt at winning while enemies have to cancel NAP and wait X turns.
And yes, all NAPs are binding except when stated in OP. People [most of them] do not carry grudges over games, but if someone breaks NAPs he simply won't be trusted. And will be backstabbed too.

[militarist]

Baalz, I'm not saying you are bad guy because you did it. You are perfect diplomat and I knew you will find easily the reasoning, will mix it with charisma and will explain us that what happened has already happened. Maybe you did not intend to do it like that, but welcome to new the reality everyone, anyway. I'm ok with it (actually I have no much choice :)).

I just say that did you it intentionally or not, but you did it and you are going to continue using it. When you continue using something, you wouldn't do in case you noticed AN earlier, can be understood from as a practical step, and justifies your actions as Baalz for future games, but as Fomoria, you broke after-AN agreement and can (and should) be punished by others, by ignoring NAPs with you without consequences for their own reputation. And for this game, it's also a justified game-saving throw even without looking into your unintentional backstabbing - in a few turns if no one will enter the war immediately ignoring NAPs with you, it will be obvious end of game. That's all I said.

[militarist]

That's from llamaserver:

Last updated at 13:40 GMT on Friday April 9th
Current time: 23:27 GMT


Something is wrong there with clocks and updates - it doesnn't update, so we can get some unpredictable things.

[Meglobob]

That's from llamaserver:

Last updated at 13:40 GMT on Friday April 9th
Current time: 23:27 GMT


Something is wrong there with clocks and updates - it doesnn't update, so we can get some unpredictable things.

Militarist I hope you know you have not sent Hinnoms trn in or its not registered. You would have staled if the game had not been extended 24hrs.

[militarist]

It's me requested prolongation, so I was not going to stall.
Torin, I've made my turn. I don't know Oceania's plans.

[militarist]

So,the Wrath of God is on to punish those wimpy pretenders, who decided that getting few lands from Hinnom is safer than entering into conflict with dominating Fomoria. It will make time flow faster. We will strengthen our dominion, and only Fomorian giants will feel safe on our lands. All others..be ready to meet your fate.

[militarist]

Oceania is staling several turns. I think this nation worth finding sub for it.

[ghoul31]

Trading death and water gems for fire gems. Will trade 2 for 1

[Meglobob]

Travelling Sat., can I have a 24hr ext on the current trn?

[Torin]

Yes indeed

[BigDaddy]

OK, so do we have a winner yet? I though I would go down first (actually, I didn't think anyone would bother and they haven't...) and didn't... I've had a few little victories since that are probably disappointing. Anyway... whats the deal guys, is it really too close to call! Fill me in!

[Meglobob]

Hi All,

With Summer fast approaching my workload increases where I work. Also more pressure to go out and about in my free time from friends & family. Also I appear to have foolishly (again) managed to reach the late game in 4 seperate MP's of Dominions. I can continue to do my turns but need a move to 72hr turnaround, in order to account for all the above. If we can't move to 72hr then I probably won't be able to continue to play my nation.

Hope you all understand,

Cheers,

Meglo.

[Torin]

Im ok with 72hs

[anonymity]

72 is fine I guess

[BigDaddy]

Well, well, well, I have finally be defeated. I had hoped to stay on until the bitter end, but, not surprisingly, got dominioned out. I did win some more battles as well. Any, good show and have a good game!

[militarist]

Now I understand what means "die hard" :)))

[Meglobob]

Well, well, well, I have finally be defeated. I had hoped to stay on until the bitter end, but, not surprisingly, got dominioned out. I did win some more battles as well. Any, good show and have a good game!

Well done on sticking it out to the bitter end.:)

[anonymity]

You were damn persistent I'll give you that.

[anonymity]

Everyone,

I'm going to be away starting tomorrow afternoon (6th) to Friday afternoon (11th) inclusive, so I've asked Torin to delay the next turn another 72 hours. I did try to get a temp sub from people I know but there were no takers... position is kind of complex so I'd rather get someone I know than a random.

I'll get in this turn (and the next if it gens) before I leave, so that should mean that we'll only have a longer turn for the extra 72 hours, and I'll be back at the end of that.

Sorry about the delay.

[Torin]

The attack on me by anonimity can be successful or a fail but never an acomplishment since we had a NAP 3 signed.
Incidentally he lost reputation points.

[anonymity]

The attack on me by anonimity can be successful or a fail but never an acomplishment since we had a NAP 3 signed.
Incidentally he lost reputation points.

That is false. Our NAP never had a termination clause. When I proposed it I informed you that as a rule of thumb I never sign NAPs with termination clauses, it was a set duration until turn 30. The NAP expired on turn 30 and was never renewed.

Furthermore, about a dozen turns ago (long after the expiration date) I caught a skeptic in my lands. As you will recall I had warned you that if I caught another skeptic I would consider our NAP void. So by any interpretation, our NAP had expired or been violated dozens of turns ago.

[Torin]

I see. I was under the impression of a different treaty. ok then.

[ghoul31]

We should get a sub for Bogarus, or set him to AI.

[Festin]

There was a hosting error and everyone staled. Can we rehost this please? I really do not want to redo this turn all over again.

[Meglobob]

Yea, we need to do a rollback and rehost.

Could do with finding out which player put in the faulty 2h, theres only 4 of us left, so shouldn't be too hard.

[Torin]

Ok I rerolled now. I guess that we need someone to turn Bogarus to AI. But still probably this game is just done if Arcane Nexus has been up for that long.

[Festin]

I'm sorry for inconvenience, but I will be out of town starting somewhere in the middle of the next week. This will probably be for a long time, and I do not know when I will be able to send turns again. Potentially, I can be offline for quite a long time. I do not think it is a good idea to postpone hosting for a month (or more, I do not really know right now). I did not really expect that this game will go on for so long for me.

So, I am not sure what can be done. Maybe we can try to find a sub (if somebody wishes to be a sub for such a large position so late in game)?

[Torin]

You let me know what do you want to do.

[Festin]

If we can find a sub, fine. We can also just end the game with Marverni as winner, fine with me too. I think this will be the result either way, the game can go on almost forever (I have unlimited free armies after all), but in the end Marverni will win due to huge gem advantage from AN.

So if other players vote to continue I will post a sub request.

[ghoul31]

I want to keep playing. I haven't gotten to use my giants much yet

[Torin]

Im on to call this finished. This was a strange game diplomatically and at the end it was for Meglobob. Theres hardly chance for your giants, ghoul.
It simply too many provinces Malverni owns and endless gems I assume.
Im putting this on hold

[Meglobob]

I am happy either way, to continue or be declared the winner.:)

I am quite enjoying the endgame carnage, casting wishes and playing around with all my gems. The only negative is of course the long turns and players may have more fun in a new game with shorter more fun turns than this one.

Sorry you haven't got to use your giants much ghoul31, but they would not stand any chance at all vs the endgame tartarians, seraphs and chayots. Also, its unfair for the smallest player in the game to stop the game ending, if the other 3 big nations are happy to call it.

Whatever happens, good game in the end...:D

[ghoul31]

Most of my giants have 23 atk, 28 def, 24 prot, 25 mr,15hp regen, so I don't think they would be that easy to kill

[ghoul31]

ok, this game is over.I can't beat you by myself. Too bad everyone else stopped playing

[Meglobob]

ok, this game is over.I can't beat you by myself. Too bad everyone else stopped playing

Ok, thanks for playing till the end ghoul.

There was never any chance of me not winning once I had Arcane Nexus up for 5+ turns, I was building up multiple wishes and getting 100+ of each gem type per month. I think the other nations knew this and thats why they give up.

Anyway, good luck next game.

I will email Llama to let him know this game is over with a win for Ea Marverni:)