Monthly site searching

[GrudgeBringer]

Ok, this is pretty class 101 but it drives me CRAZY every time I try and use it...

I don't know if it is my shift button the may not be connecting every time ot not.

Say I want to script Augury on a Mystic. The way i understand it is I hit Shift+m and cast the spell. It will show the spell with a monthly after it.

I have to do it like 20 times before it does it.

Will someone just take the time to say specifically when you hit shift M. I mean do I hit it BEFORE I cast the spell, or perhaps after I cast the spell? OR just shoot my shift button:o

[thejeff]

Shift-m should bring up the spell menu, right?

Whatever spell you select will be cast monthly.

[GrudgeBringer]

LOL....thats the ONLY way I havn't done it...

[13lackGu4rd]

Say I want to script Augury on a Mystic. The way i understand it is I hit Shift+m and cast the spell. It will show the spell with a monthly after it.

if you're just pressing shift+m than casting augury with your mystic than it will be just a regular cast. you need to first select your augury(to get the white background around him) than press shift+m and the cast ritual window will automatically pop up, this will be your indication that you've done it properly and now whatever ritual you choose will be automatically scripted as long as you have enough gems and valid targets(augury for example will stop being scripted if all your provinces have been searched for fire sites).

[GrudgeBringer]

Yep, that did it!!!

Thanks Guys!!

[chrispedersen]

now that you know you can - never do it in a serious game.
Micromanagement is always better.

[thejeff]

Micromanagement is always better: up until the point you quit the game in disgust because you can't deal with it.

[13lackGu4rd]

actually I found that monthly casting site searching spells isn't that bad, as it actually targets proper provinces(not searched before and with least amount of sites already available) so unless you need the mage for something else I haven't seen a problem with it yet. of course it's always good to make sure the AI doesn't mess up and targets your capital or something, as that's usually the last valid target that hasn't been searched, yet it will be a waste of mage turn...

[Gregstrom]

The AI doesn't target your capital with sitesearches (at least in 3.23). But it searches in numerical order rather than searching the most likely provinces first. So it's 'sub-optimal'.

[thejeff]

It does still seem to target other capitals.

Yeah, it's suboptimal and I'll hand target provinces early on when I'm still trying to find income to finance site searching or I'll send mages out searching manually. But I'm going to want to search everything eventually, so once I've got some income, I'll just let the monthly search rip.
If I'm fighting a war on my low numbered frontier, I'll stop it. Too much chance of finding something that'll fall right into the enemy's hands. It can in fact target a province that you lost last turn.

[shatner]

I've noticed this when I have a bunch of casters doing remote site searching.

Say I have 12 earth gems and a monthly income of 6 earth gems. I have 5 casters casting Gnome Lore (costs 2 earth each). Next turn only 1 of the 5 casters will still have the monthly ritual of Gnome Lore still active; the rest will be defending.

The reason for this (near as I can tell) is because the 5 casters perform their rituals (12 earth gems get reduced to 2) and then the game sees that I only have enough gems to support a single caster. THEN I get my gem income of 6 (bringing me up to 8 earth gems). As such, I would have to manually re-assign 3 of my 4 unoccupied casters to cast Gnome Lore once again... and repeat each turn hereafter.

[Gandalf Parker]

a 101 tip:
You can select multiple mages. Either by selecting one then using shift-click to select everyone in-between. Or, the way I usually do, by using Control-click to select each mage you want to do search casting. Then hit shift-M and select each ones search spell.

The advantage of doing it that way is that when you select any of them in the future it will re-select all of that same group.

If you hover over a mage that is doing a monthly search spell then the bottom of the screen will show you where he plans to cast that month (by name which kindof sucks but you can find it on the F1 keys menu or use the 9 key or tab key to turn names on for a minute).

If you have just taken a province higher up on the map that wont get checked for abit and you want to know NOW if its worth more protection or maybe a structure, then selecting one of your mages will select the entire search group. Doing shift-M will let you select the new important province for the search spells. It will search that one next turn then return to working its way thru the map from the bottom up.

If you are using more than one mage for each spell (multiple earth casters doing gnome lore, etc) then you might want to create one group with just one of each spell just for checking out newly captured provinces of strategic importance.

[thejeff]

Yes. That's how it works.

The spells are cast in the ritual phase. If there are gems in the lab at that point, the order is reissued. Later gem income is added to the lab.
This also explains some of the other weirdnesses. Provinces you took that turn aren't targeted because you hadn't taken them yet in the ritual phase when the new target was determined. More problematically, if you lost a province you lost it after the new site search targets had been picked. Your mage could be casting his spell on a province you don't own.

[Squirrelloid]

Its not that it doesn't target your or other capitals (i've had it try to target my capital before), its stranger than that.

If a capital province has as its name the nation for whom its a capital (regardless of who currently owns it), site searching will not auto-target it. If it has a different name (pre-set province names in the .map file causes this I believe), then it will target the province because the game doesn't understand that its a capital.

[thejeff]

Ah, that makes sense. It probably just checks against the list of nation names. I'll have to experiment with that.
Probably doesn't get mod nation names?

[Gandalf Parker]

Correct. Modded nations seem to get treated the same as differently named capitals even if the capital province matches the nations name.

[GrudgeBringer]

You mean that the Monthly site searching searches EVERY (well almost) Province and not just yours?

Ok, here is what I am trying to accomplish...

I usually pick my 2 best Oreos and send them out in different directions to site search. Trouble it the may have only 1 in 4 paths or something like this 3N 1E 2A.

So I also send out a couple of mystics that also have different paths (W, S, etc) right behind them, but they also may only have 1 in the paths. That way I can go for All the Provinces (slow as that may be?.

I was hesitant to use the Monthly auto because I am a gem miser but I have noticed I am ALWAYS behind in gem count compared to most of the other nations and I always feel i have left some out because I have only a 1 in certain paths.

But if I am searching the whole dang board, that ridiculous.

Maybe someone could give me a hint on how to do it better without wasting all those (aaarrggghhh) gems.:doh:

[Gandalf Parker]

No it will only target provinces you own. You can check that when you start the spell and it makes its recommendation. But sometimes the sequence of events can change the ownership in that same turn which can give you an answer for a province you no longer own.

Its kindof irritating to see a message on your site search saying it found 3 sites but the flag shown on the message is now someone elses and you cant see what sites you found. (unless you are sieging a castle).

But it does make some game-reality sense. The province targeted for that turn shows can be viewed before you hit END (by hovering the mouse over the mage and seeing the message at the bottom of the screen). When you hit end, the game hosts and decides all events. The Mage sitting at his lab doesnt do a new check just before casting so sometimes he continues to cast on a province that you already lost.

[thejeff]

When you're using the monthly autocast it's actually worse than that.
The new target is picked during the ritual phase, before battles and before provinces change ownership, so if you check the mage's orders he can be targeting a province you no longer own. If you then change his orders and try to change them back you won't be able to target that province, since it isn't yours.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually, the new target appears to be "picked" before any phase. If I have autocasting going on I can see next months pick.

[thejeff]

I'm not sure what you mean?
When you first set a mage to monthly cast a site search spell you can look at his order and see the target. Next month, assuming you had gems left and more provinces to search he has a new target, which you can also check.

That target is picked sometime during the turn generation process. The simplest assumption is that it is picked immediately after the previous month's spell is cast. This seems to fit all the evidence and leads to the weird behavior described.
While playing your turn, you can see that the mage has orders to cast his spell on a province you no longer own. That you could no longer set him to target. And if you don't change it he'll go ahead and cast it.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ahhh my apologies. Im used to reading game logs. References to ritual phase automatically makes me think of during hosting.

You are quite right now that I think about it. Of course the selection of the next months target must happen during previous hosting phase. *slap self in head*

Im not sure Ive ever noticed it targeting a place I no longer own. I thought it was just bad timing in the same hosting. I will need to watch that closer and re-target if its an obvious miss.

[3V4JKZ2]

I've been having a small problem with this function.

Step 1: Grab 2 units.
Step 2: Shift + M
Step 3: Select Arcane Probing (Astral Search)
Step 4: Select Province. Leave on default
Step 5: Select Arcane Probing for Unit 2
Step 6: Select province. A different one from the original.

The next turn, when I hit F1 to look where they're searching, they're trying to search the same province again.

[Gregstrom]

What version are you running?

[3V4JKZ2]

Unpatched. When trying to patch to 3.26, it causes my game to crash.

[Stavis_L]

Unpatched. When trying to patch to 3.26, it causes my game to crash.

There are a few different behaviors regarding monthly auto-casting and site searching that are changed in various patches (not to mention a metric ton of other fixes/changes/additions.)

You could try sending the crash information to Shrapnel support; perhaps they can help you out; getting up to date with the latest patch will be its own reward (even if your particular current game is hosed.)

[Edi]

Unpatched. When trying to patch to 3.26, it causes my game to crash.

You should open a support ticket (https://www.gamersfront.com/store/support.php) with Shrapnel support.

[3V4JKZ2]

Excellent, thanks for the advice.