IFV gun and ammo research

[DRG]

This is a little project for those of you who like to dig up information

We are in the process of reviewing ammo loadouts for IFV armed with autocannons between 20mm and 40mm. If we have some help with this the process might even be completed for this next release

We need the Rate Of Fire for the main gun and the ammo carried by the vehicle. If there is a range of ROF we could use that. I have seen info that suggests weapon "X" may be capable of 500 RPM but 200-300 is more typical. We need both numbers and would use the high "typical" range

Ammo carried would be the total ammo load that vehicle can carry both ready and stored.

Anyone is welcome to contribute BUT we REQUIRE two sources for that info and neither of them can be WIKIPEDIA. If you can only find one that's OK but let us know it was hard to find and maybe someone else can provide further info

We already have found good data for the Bradley M2 and M3 series as well as the Marder and the Warrior. We are still up to our ears in other work so this seemed a good time to go to the forum.

To recap

We need the Vehicle, it's main weapon and it's ROF and the total amount of that ammo type carried by the vehicle. ( so we don't need to know how much 7.62 ammo it carries )

Thanks

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
I'm snowed under here myself so I don't know how involved I can get here but, for others try this website as a good start point.
Note the table in the upper third part normally will show all weapons and below ammo load out. Sorry best that I can do for now.
http://military-today.com/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_90.htm, http://www.military-today.com/apc/stryker.htm and
http://www.military-today.com/apc/m2_bradley.htm for example purposes you'll have peck through them not all show ammo load out unfortunately.
Regards,
Pat

[CarpathianDragon]

As the resident Romanian, here is my contribution.

IFV : Romanian MLI-84M.

Main Gun : 25mm Oerlikon KBA Autocannon mounted on OWS-25R station.
Ammo Loadout : 650 ( 200 ready + 450 stored )
Rates of fire : 100-200-600 rnds/min

Sources :

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1018.html
http://www.mfaromania.ro/ows.htm (bottom-right of the web page a tiny UK flag if the page mistakenly appears in romanian)
http://tpb.traderom.ro/expozitii/domenii/PATROMIL_2005/PATROMIL/MFA/MLI84_M.htm

[Imp]

Same little time for a week or so but can chip in then, older stuff might be more of a problem than current

[DRG]

What we are looking at is the ammo load assigned to vehicles in the game. Andy noticed that some seemed too low so we started digging. There are a few that are too low but many I've found match what should be nearly perfectly . The Romanian MLI-84M is one of those the French AMX-10P is another. Those are just two examples. there are others. The Russian loads are good. The Brit load for the Warrior is good. German Marders are a bit low but not too much. US Bradley's are somewhat low for the ammo they carry. This will likely be a WIP. I hope to catch the main vehicles this patch and pick up the rest next year. SO FAR what I'm finding is with few exceptions we are not way out of line

Don

[DRG]

Here's an example of the wildly different info available. The subject vehicle is the FV107 Scimitar

http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2890.html

claims 160 rounds are carried

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=188

claims 76 rounds are carried

http://www.military-today.com/apc/fv107_scimitar.htm

doesn't say

and ( yes, I know what I said above..... :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV107_Scimitar

says 165 rounds

and http://www.armedforces.co.uk/army/listings/l0024.html

says 160 rounds

All things considered I'm going with the 160 number but this is just one example of the inconsistancy of information available and why one source just isn't good enough

Don

[Mobhack]

RARDEN ammo comes in clips of 3, so if the number is not divisible by that, it is suspect :)!

The weapon holds 6 rounds in the breech, fed from 2 strippers. It's really used as a rather large Self Loading Rifle on semi-auto, with a capability to fire a burst of 6 maximum at a very low cyclic rate (180 springs to mind).

It's a very accurate weapon (at least back in the 70s when introduced, I no longer have the Janes Infantry Weapons 1976 I used to), but not really an "auto-cannon" in the full sense. Full bursts of 6 were typically reserved for e.g. shooting at helos with.

Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

My guess with the Scimitar would be that the "76" might be nr. of rounds ready in the turret, while the higher number (whatever it is) is total stowage?

Anyway, here's my addition:
(sorry, the source is in Czech)
BVP-2 (Czech BMP-2): 2A42.
Ammo used: HE-Frag-T, AP-T
Rate of fire: slow (200-300) and high (550)
Ammunition carried: 500 rounds
NOTE: only one source found sofar on this. Typical loadout 340 HE-Frag; 160 AP.
NOTE 2: Gee, found multiple sources. However in English it seems it's all Wiki, so here are two Czech ones (sorry).
http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/title/CZK-BVP-2/t/10482
http://www.csla.cz/technika/transportery/bvp2.htm

[DRG]

The BVP-2 was 10 "shots" too high and has been adjusted.

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don and others,
I've done the work on the military-today.com website. No time for game checks though confident 95% is in and maybe you'll find a couple of unknowns for later. Also note where ammo loads aren't noted on the table, that info and range data etc. will normally be in para 2 or 3, also suspect where similar vehicles are used by different countries the ammo load out where shown will be the same unless noted. The ULAN I believe will be a "base" for a couple of units in this case. I can only provide this source and again I've already done the "pecking". Will post IFVs (16) first then APC's (9) etc. Expect three separate posts to cover five catagorys overall. Now I'm off to bed, you should have the first one I hope by Thursday morning sometime. And I'll blame Imp and EJ because I can, AGAIN GOOD NIGHT!
Regards,
Pat
(Gila Monster)

[Suhiir]

LAV-25
Combat loaded = 210 ready rounds and 420 stowed rounds.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/lav-25.htm

M242 25mm Chain Gun
The M242 is fed by a metallic link belt and has dual-feed capability which allows the crew to select and load two types of ammunition.

Low Rate = 100 rounds a minute, plus or minus 25 rounds.
High Rate = 200 rounds a minute, plus or minus 25 rounds.

http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/cv/weapon/M242.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/m242.htm

[Suhiir]

EXPEDITIONARY FIGHTING VEHICLE (EFV)
30 mm ready rounds - 200
30 mm stowed - 400

http://www.gdls.com/programs/efv.html

30mm Bushmaster Mk 44
Rate of Fire 200 rounds per minute
Feed System Dual feed, integral to weapon

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/mk-44-30mm.htm

http://www.atk.com/customer_solutions_armamentsystems/cs_as_gs_mk44_30-40mm_c.asp

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_30mm_BushmasterII.htm

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
I didn't include the three from Post #2. First two offered seemed to be tied into the M2 Bradley for numbers (ULAN/PIZARRO) from articles. Also didn't include any armed with the heavier 14.5mm MG or 40mm GLs. Also excluded some with multiple weapons capability as only MG variants were shown. Also Imp might be right at least from this source, the older units might be harder to track down. Anyway segment #1 IFVs only:
Austria http://www.military-today.com/apc/ulan_ifv.htm
Spain http://www.military-today.com/apc/pizarro_ifv.htm
Bulgaria http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmp_23.htm
China
http://www.military-today.com/apc/zbd2000.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/type_97_ifv.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/wz_551.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/wz_501.htm
France
http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbci.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/amx_10p.htm
Germany http://www.military-today.com/apc/puma_ifv.htm
Italy
http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbm_freccia.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/dardo_vcc_80.htm
Japan http://www.military-today.com/apc/type_89_ifv.htm
Romania http://www.military-today.com/apc/mli_84m.htm
Russia http://www.military-today.com/apc/bmp_3.htm
Sweden http://www.military-today.com/apc/cv_90.htm
United Kingdom
http://www.military-today.com/apc/mcv_80_warrior.htm

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
What the hell...segment #2 APCs only:
Canada http://www.military-today.com/apc/kodiak.htm
New Zealand http://www.military-today.com/apc/nzlav.htm
North Korea http://www.military-today.com/apc/m1973.htm
Russia http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_80a.htm and
HAPC http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_t.htm
Switzerland
http://www.military-today.com/apc/mowag_piranha_iv.htm
Ukraine
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_4.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_3u.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/btr_94.htm

Imposed the same limitations as with the IFVs. Last segment hopefully by this weekend if acceptable.
Aren't the Olympics great!?!
Good Night!
Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

Pat, while I thank you for the effort I can go down the list at Military today and check these out just from the first link you gave.

What I need is the SPECIFIC information I asked for at the start. What is the guns ROF and MOST important >>what is the ammo carried for that main gun? Using the Puma link you provided it's nice but all it tells me is the gun is a dual-fed Mauser 30-mm cannon. No ROF, No ammo load

Like I said. I appreciate the effort you put in but what I asked for was the info AND the links

Don

[DRG]

I found a source of data that gives me the primary information I was looking for.

Thanks everyone for their contributions. I have used them to cross check this new source and it's looking good

Thanks

Don