werewolfing item..

[militarist]

"Cursed, Regeneration +10, Str +4, automatic Berserk, chance of becoming a werewolf each month"

What does mean to become werewolf?

[Meglobob]

As in Call of the Wild spell, I think, been some time since it happened to one of my commanders.

[militarist]

So,putting it on Melqart is a bad idea :)?

[Frozen Lama]

yes

[Redeyes]

It's safe to put it on Undead and Lifeless commanders.
Some monsters are also supposedly immune, but the only I recall cited as a good target for the item is the Kraken.
I don't think there's a definite list on which beings are immune to being turned.

[chrispedersen]

No its not.

[vfb]

I think I stuck it on a pathless Wyrm before, and he never changed form. Maybe pretenders are immune?

[Gregstrom]

I seem to recall that Pretenders (and possibly units who can change shape in their own right?) are immune, yes.

[RadioGibbon]

I put it on a sleeper once in the hope that the werewolf stats would be added to the sleeper stats, creating a larger than normal highly skilled werewolf. If it worked I thought maybe I could create some really massive overpowered werewolves in the future.

It didn't work though. Not only did the Sleeper change into a human when not a werewolf, but he was something like 400 years over the old age threshold for werewolves, which had quite a negative impact on his statistics.

[Jack_Trowell]

I think that in order to transform into a larger werewolf, the base unit must be Jotun-sized (size 4+), and the sleeper has only size 3 from what I remember

[Olive]

Caught one with one Mictlan's Tlaloque (the one with nature), he turned into a skinshifter (Vanheim style), he kept his magic paths and his equipment slots.

[Stavis_L]

Caught one with one Mictlan's Tlaloque (the one with nature), he turned into a skinshifter (Vanheim style), he kept his magic paths and his equipment slots.

Interesting trivia - when a unique summoned unit like the Tlaloque transforms into a new unit type, the original unique unit can be re-summoned. This can be of situational use to gain multiple casters with particular paths.

Although transformation via the Lychanthropos' Amulet is not necessarily the most reliable way to go about it, especially with high MR units...

[Jarkko]

Hoburg herbalist ftw! They change to human sized werewolf, and keep their magic paths (and item slots) :) That is a cheap thug if you ever saw one (although not quite available on demand...).

[Stavis_L]

Hoburg herbalist ftw! They change to human sized werewolf, and keep their magic paths (and item slots) :) That is a cheap thug if you ever saw one (although not quite available on demand...).

Do you mean the horticulturist? Er...not sure what the point gaining a 1N werewolf would be (vs. just a normal werewolf?)

[Jarkko]

Do you mean the horticulturist? Er...not sure what the point gaining a 1N werewolf would be (vs. just a normal werewolf?)
Hmmm... I have a distinct memory of having a N1E1 hoburg transfering to a werewolf. Cast Stoneskin, Ironwill, Resist Elements, Attack Rear, with a Vine Shield, FireBrand and Flying Boots, wreaking havoc as a raider-thug.


EDIT: And the Lycanthrope Amulet in question was nicked from an assassin who attacked the hoburg, and I never (of course) got rid of the item before he transformed...

[Foodstamp]

They get a slight chance for an earth or water path. Something like 20 or 25%. I think a nature/water horticulturist would make a cool thug :).

[PyroStock]

Do you mean the horticulturist? Er...not sure what the point gaining a 1N werewolf would be (vs. just a normal werewolf?)
Hmmm... I have a distinct memory of having a N1E1 hoburg transfering to a werewolf. Cast Stoneskin, Ironwill, Resist Elements, Attack Rear, with a Vine Shield, FireBrand and Flying Boots, wreaking havoc as a raider-thug.

The lycanthropy amulet applies "gone beserk". "Gone beserk" will prevent him from casting anything in battle just like Touch of Madness.

[Foodstamp]

Bah that sucks. Can you remove the amulet after the transformation or is it cursed?

[Olive]

It's cursed.

Caught one with one Mictlan's Tlaloque (the one with nature), he turned into a skinshifter (Vanheim style), he kept his magic paths and his equipment slots.

Interesting trivia - when a unique summoned unit like the Tlaloque transforms into a new unit type, the original unique unit can be re-summoned. This can be of situational use to gain multiple casters with particular paths.

Although transformation via the Lychanthropos' Amulet is not necessarily the most reliable way to go about it, especially with high MR units...

Yep, tried it, it worked. But in that particular case, the Skinshifter's old age is 200 and the Tlaloques are more than 1000 years old so the transformed creature will certainly gain afflictions without Gift of Health or the Chalice.

[Edi]

The transformed spellcaster does just fine in the research/ritual department, but becomes useless as as combat mage. So, while the lycanthropos amulet is not the end of everything, it's annoying as all hell.

[Gregstrom]

Is their upkeep zeroed?

[Stavis_L]

Is their upkeep zeroed?

No, it's set to the base for a Skinshifter (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Skinshifter_%28Middle_Era%29) unit.

[thejeff]

Which wouldn't actually be bad for expensive research/ritual mages.
Going from ~300/15 to 25/15 may be worth it.

Pan, anyone?

[Burnsaber]

Actually, now that I think about it, EA R'lyeh Mind Lords could really want to want to turn themselves into werevolves to get more item slots.

Or Slanns from the Lizardmen mod. Both examples would likely get horrible old age, but since werewolves have automatic regen, it might not be that bad.

[Stavis_L]

Which wouldn't actually be bad for expensive research/ritual mages.
Going from ~300/15 to 25/15 may be worth it.

Pan, anyone?

If you don't mind losing their combat survivability in the meantime. And burning 5/3 N gems for the amulet.

Also, for a Pan (which has decent MR) it will take ages to finally fail the check.

If you're using CBM and the caster has any N paths (like your hypothetical Pan), it's better to just use Transformation (which *will* eliminate the upkeep.) Or, you can use the Life After Death/Ankh technique, if it's not considered an exploit in your games.

These all work on the same basic principle of substituting the base unit for a different unit type.

[Stavis_L]

Actually, now that I think about it, EA R'lyeh Mind Lords could really want to want to turn themselves into werevolves to get more item slots.


Just make sure you're wearing something to provide water-breathing when you finally turn :p

[thejeff]

Yeah, makes them useless in combat, but still good for research/rituals.

In CBM, Transformation is better, though the amulet is still cheaper and leaves you with full slots. Transformation is kind of random. Can't it kill the mage? In vanilla, the amulet is much cheaper and available much earlier.
And of course it can be used on any mages, not just N. Probably works better on expensive human mages than on Pan though. Or, as Burnsaber pointed out, those with minimal slots.
Life after death is a lot harder to set up.

[LumenPlacidum]

Lore masters, if you can find them, could really use it.

[Burnsaber]

Lore masters, if you can find them, could really use it.

They'd lose their researchbonus, though.

[Fantomen]

You lose research bonus with transformation too then?

[Burnsaber]

You lose research bonus with transformation too then?

Yeah. Researchbonus is an ability of a unit, just like flying, sacred and the like.

[Edi]

You lose research bonus with transformation too then?

Yes, since it is an intrinsic property of the monster type, as opposed to a property of the individual unit (which is what the realized magic picks are).

[chrispedersen]

interesting. so by extension units that get a research penalty
(shinuyama, machaka, Yomi) among others .. could reverse their research penalties.....interesting.

Hmmm.. theoretically you could also use it to fix old age problems...
I wonder what unit has the biggest research penalty....

[Stavis_L]

I wonder what unit has the biggest research penalty....

That would be Dai Oni, with -5 (per Edi's DB.)

[chrispedersen]

Yeah that would have been my guess as well.
Still at 500 gp ish.. I wonder if they become effective...

Very interesting...

[Makinus]

And how many turns (on average) a unit with werewolf amulet takes to become a werewolf?

[chrispedersen]

hmm... I wonder if the dai oni's have 3 slots...
give the oni 3 items, slave collar in last.. when he becomes a werewolf, item returns to the lab...?

could give him a fever fetish too....

[Stavis_L]

And how many turns (on average) a unit with werewolf amulet takes to become a werewolf?

Not sure about average, but they have to fail a MR check. I have a Sidhe Lord thug (Eiru) in a game that picked one up during initial expansion, and hasn't turned yet at the end of year 4. Of course, his MR is base 17.

A Dai Oni with MR 18 would be even less likely to turn. Bane Lords with MR 16 are also pretty unlikely. All this talk about using it to make cost effective research mages is pretty far fetched since mages generally have high MR.

On the other hand, I find that an Indy Commander (MR 10) who happens to pick one up will likely turn within a year or so, give or take.

[chrispedersen]

hence my question about the # of slots.
Slave collar gives -5 MR.
Void eye gives -2 MR
Banner of the Northern Star gives -2.
Magic +3 as well.

so if you have 3 slots, and if you reduce down to 2, and if you can recover the slave collar, this looks like a pretty effective way.

Ie., Banner + slave collar + Magic 3 = MR of 8 or less for a lot of units.

[Stavis_L]

hence my question about the # of slots.
Slave collar gives -5 MR.
Void eye gives -2 MR
Banner of the Northern Star gives -2.
Magic +3 as well.

so if you have 3 slots, and if you reduce down to 2, and if you can recover the slave collar, this looks like a pretty effective way.

Ie., Banner + slave collar + Magic 3 = MR of 8 or less for a lot of units.

Ah...sorry, no. Dai Oni have 2 misc slots, not 3. Aside from pretenders and CBM heroes, I think you're pretty much restricted to Ashdod/Hinnom for 3 misc slot mage types.