Dystopia - new poor game (Running)

[Maerlande]

Hi folks,

I want to credit QM with the insanity of Forge of Godhood. Some of us on IRC think it's a neat idea but needs some adjustment to make a game that might actually end with a win for someone.

So here's my new plan for a poor game.

Map: Streamlands by Elmoki (great map maker)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=713433
Era: Middle
Players: 12-15
Magic site freq: 0
Gold multiple: 50
Resource multiple: 50
Supply: 100
Research: Very difficult
Independents: 9
Mods:
CBM 1.6
Endgame Diversity Mod by LlamaBeast
Zlefins F/W Thugs
Please download the following Combined mod prepared by Sombre for this game.


Hall of Fame: 15
Graphs: On

Host Schedule:
24h until otherwise requested

Victory:
Cummulative: Capitals are the only VPs. 15 vps are required.

Other rules:
No trading (meaning no sending gold/slaves/items/gems)
Breaking of alliances and NAPs should acceptable/expected
No magic above level 8 on pretenders (to prevent complete domination of blesses)
Water nations are allowed. Simply because I want to play Ryleh. But note, this map is very unfriendly to water nations which is a deliberate choice.

I might be open to negotiate some of these terms but frankly I doubt it. I'm too ornery and stubborn. Try me if you really want.

Folks who played Forge will remember a number of problems. It's very difficult to move forward after the middle game due to the overwhelming selection of D3 scalse. Also water nations can turtle forever which is why I've chosen a much more unfriendly map for water.

Cummulative victory points was chosen for the simple reason that once all the people have died, making armies large enough to take more capitals becomes nearly impossible.

I've chosen not to ban any nations. The freespawn nations like Pan and Ermor have some advantages but they were shown to be as much challenge as they were advantage.

Come on down for some bloody hard work. These are tough games but I had so much fun in Forge I want to repeat the insanity.

Nations:

1) Ryleh - Maerlande
2) Vanheim - don_Pablo
3) Caelum - LoloMo
4) Pythium - legolajrt
5) T'ien Ch'i - Sir_Dr_D
6) Mictlan - zlefin
7) Pangaea - LumenPlacidum
8) Agartha - FrozenLama
9) Bandar Log - Squirrelloid
10) Jotunheim - Zeldor
11) Abysia - Graeme_Dice
12) C'tis - GameExtremist
13) Ulm - StaggerLee
14) Machaka - Fantomen
15) Man - Rytek

Game is up. :) http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Dystopia

[don_Pablo]

I'll try with Vanheim

[LoloMo]

Finally! A poor game! Caelum please :)

[LoloMo]

I changed my mind, I'm going to play a nation I've never played before. Switch me over to Marignon please. Thanks!

[vfb]

Forge was a ton'o'fun IMO, but sorry I'm burned out at the moment and can't see how your parameters are any different. Just the cumulative victory condition? How does that work anyway?

[Maerlande]

vfb: Maybe they aren't enough different vfb. My plan was to squeeze the players tighter to about 8 provinces per player. But that's about the same as Forge.

1) I squeezed the map by roughly 50%.
2) The map was specifically chosen to penalize water nations so they can't turtle. There is one small sea of 4 provinces which I will set to #nostart. The rest of the water provinces are small lakes not connected. This will force any water nations to get on land fast or die.
3) CBM 1.6 makes entering water easier with manuals of water breathing for N gems.
4) Cummulative VPs is huge. You get one vp every year for each capital you hold. So setting the cummulative at 6 for example ends the game on turn 72 no matter what. It won't devolve into a giant stalemate. I think we should got more than 6 though :) Probably say if you get 4 caps and hold a couple years you win.

My view on Forge wasn't that the settings didn't work. Just that no one could win in less that 120 turns.

[Maerlande]

don_Pablo:

You look new. Please carefully review the settings. Try out a single player game to test some ideas. These settings are extremely brutal and a lot of things don't work. You might want to read the Forge of Godhood threat to get a feel for the game.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=43675

You are most welcome to play. I'm just offering some advice to make it enjoyable.

[Maerlande]

Here is my last turn as the sub for QM in Forge of Godhood. Note the extremely low populations and gold income.

[Calahan]

You might want to read the Forge of Godhood threat....
Hey Maerlande, I'd love to hear more about what the Forge of Godhood threat is :D Is it along the lines of....

"I demand that you join this game :tough: else I'll curse all your other games to grind to a deadlock in a never ending midgame that lasts a thousand turns."

[pyg]

I am a tentative yes. My real life is getting very busy but I'm only in one game right now. If this game doesn't start right away I'm more likely to test some ideas and commit. Looks like fun though. :)

[Maerlande]

Sure! I'm trying to be serious but all you can do is make fun of my spelling Calahan. Jerk :)

Welcome pyg. Got a nation choice? I'm not in a rush to start.

[Belac]

How does the cumulative thing work? Is it checked at turn 1, 13, 25, etc, or do you get 1 VP for holding a capital for 12 consecutive months?

[Maerlande]

I'm waiting on more advice from vets on that, but my understanding is you get 1 point every year in the summer for holding a vp. So basically, you should get 6 points for just sitting in your cap for roughly 72 turns. I think it would actually be on turn 78.

So if I set the vps required to 6, the game with automatically end on turn 72 with no one doing anything.

[Sir_Dr_D]

I will try as Tien-Chi

[Zeldor]

Yes, cumulative VPs are added only during mid-summer. Games start at early spring, right? So that should be around turn 4.

[Squirrelloid]

I'm interested, and hoping some of my games end soon.

I think LA would make a better dystopian era, but maybe that's just me =P

So no one has an undue advantage - would anyone like to explain for everyone how sites 0 actually effects magic site frequency and bloodhunting?

[zlefin]

I'm in, sonuds fun. Not sure which nation yet though; that'll depend on how many cum vps are needed as well, as some nations are more early/late game, even by how this game counts such things.

[LumenPlacidum]

I'm in. I'll try Pangaea: Age of Bronze.

[Maerlande]

At a request from IRC I'm adding Llamabeast's cool new mod: Endgame diversity. It will be quite amazing if someone gets to Conjuration 6 to use it but who knows. Might make for some new strategies.

[Maerlande]

zlefin would also like to add his FW Thugs mod. I may do that, but I've not looked at it yet. Going to try it out.

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, count me in as... Bandar Log!

[Maerlande]

Cool. I'll try to get an accurate answer about blood hunting. So far, I know it is affected but I don't know the math.

I will post about the specifics of magic zero on site searching.

[Maerlande]

Okay folks. Some fairly solid stuff on site frequency with magic zero:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showpost.php?p=704135&postcount=62

And some tests by vfb on blood hunting:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showpost.php?p=703521&postcount=21

[Graeme Dice]

Except for the low magic site setting, this sounds a lot like Dom2, which makes me want to play C'Tis or Abysia.

In fact, I want to play them enough to actually go and play Abysia.

[Maerlande]

Are you in then Graeme_Dice?

[Graeme Dice]

Yep, I'm in. And no need to use my whole name, it's so bloody formal.

[GameExtremist]

I would like to play C'tis :)

[Maerlande]

Dice: Which nation? Looks like Aby so I'll book you for that :)

GameExtremist: Done

[pyg]

Sorry this game is filling really fast and I'm not anywhere close to ready. Please remove me from the players list. Sorry, next time.

[Maerlande]

I'm in no hurry to start pyg. I'll hold your spot until it fills.

[Maerlande]

Folks: I'm not going to start for at least a week. A number of people have asked for time to plan and test and that's fine with me. Let's not rush. The settings are hard enough.

Also, nation changes are not a problem. Feel free to switch if you find your testing falls apart.

[Fantomen]

I'd like to play Machaka

[Maerlande]

Done. Interesting choice Fantomen. And welcome.

[Rytek]

I would like man please.

[Maerlande]

Done. We're full guys. But I'll take a couple alternates in case Zlefin and Pyg don't decide on nations.

[LumenPlacidum]

Done. Interesting choice Fantomen. And welcome.

What with the upkeep-free aspect of spiders after their riders have been shot, it seems like a pretty damn good choice to me. Good ways of spending their national gems too.

[Maerlande]

I've decided. Cummulative VPs are 11. That's it. Final, end of discussion.

[LoloMo]

This is going to be a short game! Or do you mean 110 VPs? :)

[Maerlande]

Actually lolomo,if we do the math: 12 vps means the game is automatically over about turn 147 if no one does anything. Another way to figure it out is that if someone rushes a second cap they will accumulate 2 vps a year. Should end the game about turn 70 or so.

[vfb]

I think your years weigh less than a standard metric year, or something.

[Maerlande]

Hi Folks,

How is testing going? I'm still not sure of the best choice for VPs. If anyone has some results from testing using cummulative it might be good to share. So far I'm still thinking of 12.

[Squirrelloid]

Hi Folks,

How is testing going? I'm still not sure of the best choice for VPs. If anyone has some results from testing using cummulative it might be good to share. So far I'm still thinking of 12.

I was a fan of 11 based on your reasoning in the YARG2 thread.

(what do you mean you were joking!)

[Maerlande]

Nigel knows his stuff.

[Maerlande]

Hi Folks,

We've got a bit of map adjustment to do. One or two connection problems and also I'm hoping to find a volunteer to help with fixed starts (but random nations) who is not playing. If anyone is interested let me know.

[zlefin]

i'm gonna go with mictlan, i dunno about vp count turns should always be fast for this game, I just dont' want the game to turn into whoever took the first cap wins, since nobody else can break the castles. but long-term investments need enough time to pay off.

[Maerlande]

Got some ideas on amount of cummulative vps zlefin? I just don't want to end up with the stalemate of Forge.

[Sir_Dr_D]

It is better to have it too high then too low. Just the fact that you are using cumulative victory points means that the game will end. My vote is for 15.

[don_Pablo]

Imho the more - the better.
I also vote for 15.

[Maerlande]

Raiel has requested a nation change. Please check the OP.

[LoloMo]

I would like to change from Marignon to Ermor please.

[Maerlande]

Done

[Maerlande]

The game is up on llamaserver folks. See link in OP

[Maerlande]

Bumpity bump: Ready for pretenders. I know a few are still testing.

[LoloMo]

I changed back to Caelum and submitted my pretender :)

[Maerlande]

roger

[Maerlande]

pyg had to step down. So there is now one spot open.

Also, waiting on a few pretenders. Mine is ready. I'm just sitting on it so the game doesn't autostart in case I buggered the settings.

[legolasjrt]

I can play?? i used pangea or yomi.

[namad]

I'll play --- I'll update later with nation choice.


EDIT: lemme know if i get the slot or not... he posted first ... he should prolly get it... get some confirmation to me at some point... if you need me to play i will... if not ... not

[Maerlande]

legolasjrt: You posted first so I'll let you in. But Pangaea is taken by Lumen as per the original post and Yomi is not availabe in MA. Shinuyama is open.

Heck with it. You can both play. More is merrier. But you have to pick nations that are available :)

Edit: My bad. I can't add another player without restarting the game and I don't want to do that. legolasjrt you are in.

[legolasjrt]

I take Pythium

[Maerlande]

done and we are full

[legolasjrt]

i send my pretender

[legolasjrt]

Wait for ulm player...

[Sir_Dr_D]

The game is looking for a mod called diversity_base. I have the diversity mod installed but nothing called diversity_base. Where do we get this mod from?

[don_Pablo]

I've just renamed diversity.* file to diversity_base.*

[Maerlande]

Follow don_pablo's advice. I have both named files in my mod directory and it loads fine. They are identical files.

Sorry for the glitch. It's the first game I've started on llamaserver so hopefully that's the only glitch.

[Maerlande]

Folks. I delayed turn 1 by 24 hours to be sure everyone can get the mod issue sorted out. It's a small problem but let's make sure no one stales because of my confusion. This game has been a while getting started anyways. So a bit of slowdown now is fine in my opinion. I'll watch the clock closely as I usually do for games I admin. So don't feel pressured. Let's have a fun time.

[Maerlande]

Waiting on a few turns. Anyone still having problems?

[Squirrelloid]

Yes. My problem would be I haven't even looked at the turn yet. La la la, maybe tonight.

[Maerlande]

Slacker! Come back to IRC so you can get a group nagging :)

[Maerlande]

Okay folks. I screwed up. The mods are not compatible in the versions I used. So we need to restart. I'm getting the mod combined by Sombre and we'll try a restart from pretenders. With luck, llamaserver will be happy with that and we'll simply get a new turn 1 file.

Sorry for the delay.

[Sombre]

---

[Maerlande]

The game is up. Please download the combined mod kindly prepared by Sombre to resolve the conflicts. It's linked on the original post.

[Zeldor]

Funny, I was able to open and do my new turn without downloading mod. Should it be possible?

[Sombre]

If the filename matches, sure, should be possible.

But if you do it, things will break. So don't.

[Zeldor]

But it's impossible to submit new mod to llamaserver with same name as existing one. And wasn't it suppoed to be called Dystopia.dm?

[Zeldor]

Sombre:

There is no attachment with your post.

Restarted game uses diversity.dm and cbm.dm

[Maerlande]

OH MY GOD! I did it again. Argh.

[Sombre]

Sombre:

There is no attachment with your post.

Restarted game uses diversity.dm and cbm.dm

It had an attachment, which Maerlande downloaded. It wasn't available for anyone else to download because they weren't supposed to be downloading it.

I provided the combined mod, error free afaik. Anything else is nothing to do with me :]


Maerlande: For the record, what you need to do is upload Dystopia.dm to llamaserver. Then remake the game using only Dystopia mod (no CBM, no anything else). Then provide the Dystopia.zip I gave to you to all the players. You're 0/3 currently by the looks of it.

[Maerlande]

I realized that now

[Sombre]

Haw haw haw ;P

[Maerlande]

Okay. I have fixed my errors. The link in the original post is NOW the combined mod.

The game is restarted with the proper mod.

Good luck.

[LumenPlacidum]

Don't feel bad, Maerlande... when I was starting RAFT, the game kept disappearing. I had to have pretenders submitted 3 separate times because *I* screwed up the map name (it had a space when that wasn't allowed).

[Maerlande]

4 players left. I hope everyone is still in the game. Let me know if we need a sub soon. I can probably scrounge up one or two.

[Fantomen]

Aren't the start locations fixed?

I've got only 2 neighbouring provinces. 3 is bad enough, but 2 is a bit over the top.

I guess I'll just have to bite it and try my best.

[Maerlande]

I tried to fix the starts. The result was terrible so I gave up. So they are random starts. Like everything else in this game it's up to luck. So good luck.

[Zeldor]

Oh, I was sure I submitted, but it was confirmation from previous restart.

I don't think 2 neighbours are bad thing this game - easier to defend :)

[Maerlande]

It appears that Agartha has disappeared. If I can find a sub I'll sub him out until I hear otherwise. But his forum nickname doesn't seem valid.

[Frozen Lama]

i'll play if you need someone to take over agartha

[Maerlande]

Well folks. I wanted to sub out Agartha, but my password on llamaserver got corrupted and I can't do any admin tasks. I'm hoping llamabeast will reply soon with advice but until then Agartha will stale out unless the player returns.

[Frozen Lama]

All hail the new lord of agartha! direct any diplomacy to me please :)

[legolasjrt]

Welcome XD

[Rytek]

Just to let everyone know the magic sight setting is at 40, not 0.

[Maerlande]

Ooops. My bad. Well let's keep going.

[Squirrelloid]

>.<

[LoloMo]

I was wondering how lucky Man was to get magic sites immediately. Thanks for the heads up!

[LoloMo]

With such a small map and at 40% magic site settings, blood sacrificing nations have a big advantage. Someone please list those nations so we can kill them off early please! :D

[Squirrelloid]

With such a small map and at 40% magic site settings, blood sacrificing nations have a big advantage. Someone please list those nations so we can kill them off early please! :D

Aby and Van are the only blood sacrifice nations in MA.

[Fantomen]

Just to let everyone know the magic sight setting is at 40, not 0.

Oh, great. :( Thats going to ruin the idea of this game a bit IMO, I have developed a strategy that is totally built on a low gem environment, so I won't stand much chance now.

[Maerlande]

Everyone did that Fantomen. Same for me. Hopefully that evens things out.

But if folks want a restart I can do it. However, given my pathetic efforts first time I'm not sure it's a good idea :) I'd prefer to play on and see what happens.

[Zeldor]

Yay, muahahaha!

[Sir_Dr_D]

It should make things interesting. Lots of gems, but very expensive magic research. We will probably see tactics in play that we don't normally see.

[Zeldor]

Lots of gems? With so few provs per player? Nah...

[Sir_Dr_D]

Well, lots of gems in respect to your other resources. The gem to gold ratio will be much higher in this game then normal. And we will need to use them on more lower level spells then we are used to.

[zlefin]

grumble grumble grumble;
i'm gonna have to think on it.

[Maerlande]

Hi folks. We need a sub for Ulm. Real life has taking over for Raiel.

[Stagger Lee]

Hello. Volunteer for Ulm here. Hope all's well with Raiel. Will try to make the transition as smooth as possible.

[Maerlande]

Good stuff. PM email please :)

[Stagger Lee]

Maerlande, can I ask you to update the OP so anyone looking for Ulm can find me?

[Maerlande]

I will.

[Rytek]

I am really enjoying the settings in this game. I normally don't use luck in standard setting games. I find I look forward to reading all of those random events instead of my usual dread!

[Maerlande]

Glad you are enjoying it. Personally I play with luck a lot and love it. It's fun.

[Maerlande]

Folks,

Zeldor has discovered that the pythium capital is allowing recruitment of hydra hatchlings. Although this appears to be a small bug, I'm tempted to allow it. He can't recruit the big hydras and hatchlings are as much trouble as they are worth. Also, you can get them from a regular site.

Feel free to discuss. For now, he's not recruiting them.

Cheers,
Maer

[Sir_Dr_D]

Is there an independent province that allows for recruitment of hydra hatchlings? The pythium capital may have been sitting on this province by chance.

[LoloMo]

I'm with Dr D on this one. Probably an indy site that was unlocked after the capital was conquered. Zeldor should be allowed to recruit them.

[Stagger Lee]

I think I remember playing C'tis in SP once where I was able to recruit centaur chariots in my cap. It may be rare, but the site should be listed so Zeldor can see it when he looks at the province.

If it's a site, he can recruit as many as he wants. If not, then it's probably a bug, and should not be exploited. Just my opinion, of course. ;)


although hydra hatchlings aren't much of an exploit anyway

[Zeldor]

No, this is a bug with Pyth's cap. But I thought it was fixed many many patches ago.

[Fantomen]

Yup, I've encountered it many times. You also get elephants in MA arcos cap sometimes, or always, don't know. Could be more examples.

Could be WAD. It makes sense thematically. Both elephants and hydra hatchlings are more tied to the environment than culture.

I say allow it, they're not that good anyway.

[Zeldor]

I will need extension after this turn hosts. I'm out for weekend, I will be back on Tuesday.

[Maerlande]

Granted as requested. After this turn I'll extend.

[Maerlande]

Dudes. 4 hours left and lots of turns outstanding. The delay is for NEXT turn.

[LumenPlacidum]

llamaserver never sent me the current turn file but I have to go to work now. I hope I can get an extension, even though maerlande seems to be banned...

edit: nevermind, it was a fast turn.

[Zeldor]

Request a resend.

And yeah, he is banned. It looks like we will be creating all new games on some new forums [that will have to be created probably]. Dominions players are not welcomed on Shrapnel forums anymore, it seems.

[pyg]

This game has moved to here. (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=15)

[Edi]

Request a resend.

And yeah, he is banned. It looks like we will be creating all new games on some new forums [that will have to be created probably]. Dominions players are not welcomed on Shrapnel forums anymore, it seems.

Zeldor, I know you're friends with Sombre, Maerlande and some of the others who were banned in the aftermath of the Sombre Incident in the Night of the Long Knives thread, but please put things in perspective.

Dominions players are welcome on the Shrapnel forums and we would like to see as many of them here as possible. Participating on the forums does require adhering to the forum rules, however. Please refrain from trying to portray things as if Shrapnel wants to drive players away, because this is NOT what has been happening.

Being disruptive on a large scale or refusing to follow the rules will cause such users to be temporarily or permanently removed and unfortunately the past two days have seen several users (Sombre, Maerlande, Trumanator, Frozen Lama) permanently banned because they became disruptive on a large scale when the rules of the forum were enforced.

The actions of those people do not reflect on anyone else. Their removal from the forum does have a regrettable impact on the multiplayer games they are participating in, which does mean that game coordination may require either moving threads from here to somewhere else or having parallel threads somewhere else.

[Zeldor]

Edi:

Well, it's hard to say what was on Shrapnel's minds. Some of their people were extremely rude [Tim Brooks], way more rude than Sombre or any other banned user.

I won't organise any new games on these forums. We should have moved away from here when they were changing forums. We got a clear sign that Shrapnel does not respect Dominions community back then. But we stayed. Now it's too much.

But well, I hope to see you on ne forums too, Edi. You at least like that game and know what's the community about. And you must understand that many people just cannot stay here after what happened. Too bad Shrapnel cannot understand it [but previous discussions on several topics, for example ads with drug addicted women :P, proved it already].

[Rytek]

TC:

Amazing fight at your fortress. I can't recall ever watching a closer one. I think the only reason why my forces didnt route before yours was the 60 point and 40 point standard on my prophet and last remaining thug.

Watching your fully buffed immortal hero hold the gate was truly a treat. I openened the battle before looking at the summary, so I did not know the fate of the attack. Watching it, even right to the end I thought I had lost.

Truly an incredible job on your part. And like I said, I think the only reason I didnt route first were the 2 hero abilities with their outrageous standard boosting morale of the last remaining troops thru the roof.

[Rytek]

looking at the battle again. It looks like your immortal hero failed 2 magic rolls in a row while inside the sleep cloud, putting him at 90+ fatigue, allowing one of the vine ogres to kill him. truly bad luck. seeing as how your immortal was at 18 MR.

[Zeldor]

It looks like we can congratulate Man on victory soon. It was obvious from the beginning that this game is about pure luck. And well, Man had most of it. Awake SC and first in research? :) Getting adepts of golden order? Getting so many good gold events? And how many commanders do you have? 100+? You managed to kill TC and own my army without any problem. I had to try and stop you and I knew chances are slim. Maybe others can try later too, but I'd say we can call game over, as I can compare what you have to what others can bring.

So - I make official request for a vote - surrender to Man and start new game. Nah, I'm serious, really.

[Graeme Dice]

I can try and put up a fight if we all band together against Man. But otherwise, I just don't have the resources to defend against him.

[Sir_Dr_D]

TC:

Amazing fight at your fortress. I can't recall ever watching a closer one. I think the only reason why my forces didnt route before yours was the 60 point and 40 point standard on my prophet and last remaining thug.

Watching your fully buffed immortal hero hold the gate was truly a treat. I openened the battle before looking at the summary, so I did not know the fate of the attack. Watching it, even right to the end I thought I had lost.

Truly an incredible job on your part. And like I said, I think the only reason I didnt route first were the 2 hero abilities with their outrageous standard boosting morale of the last remaining troops thru the roof.

Thanks. I had to use every last gem that I had for that battle. I wasn't expecting to win that battle, I was just hoping to weaken you as much as possible to help give jotunheim a chance. I was expecting this too be my immortal heros last heroic stand. Though I did expect him to get killed from being entagled in a vine shield and not from sleep gas. In watching it again I was surprised to find a killed all four of your melee thugs.

It was definatly the most exciting DOnminions battle I remember. Both sides had a wide mix of troops, regular summons, battle magic, melee thugs, and ranged thugs. It was very cauotic, and could have turned out in so many different ways. It is the way Dominions is supposed to be. :D

[Rytek]

It looks like we can congratulate Man on victory soon. It was obvious from the beginning that this game is about pure luck. And well, Man had most of it. Awake SC and first in research? :) Getting adepts of golden order? Getting so many good gold events? And how many commanders do you have? 100+? You managed to kill TC and own my army without any problem. I had to try and stop you and I knew chances are slim. Maybe others can try later too, but I'd say we can call game over, as I can compare what you have to what others can bring.

So - I make official request for a vote - surrender to Man and start new game. Nah, I'm serious, really.

I vote no. I am far from being in a dominant position.

/shrug.
I killed TC because he split his army; He could have come at me with his entire forces as I set up an ambush next to his capitol. He attacked only with his army and god. I boosted my pd and had a few surprises waiting for him that im sure he wasnt expecting. But, he could have sallied out with some of his mages from his capitol and killed the ambush. I didnt beat him because of my overpowering forces. The fight at his capitol could have gone either way. If he had put an amulet of MR on his immortal hero he most likely would have won the fight.

Your army died in a similar manner. You split your army and I guessed correctly and killed the bigger half of it using every single guy i had. That fight would have been alot closer if you hadnt split your army and pumped up some pd.

The fact remains you still have the most VP. And your armies continue to swell from death and blood summons.

I think the game is far from being over.

[GameExtremist]

I think the game is far from being over.

I agree ;)

[Zeldor]

IT only means you know nothing about what's happening around. Your luck is impressive, your intel is pathetic :)

[Sir_Dr_D]

Well I am mostly out of the game now.

But I agree with Zeldor. Man has won this game and there is little anyone can do about it at this time. He won do to finding that site that allows you to create adepts of the iron order, and enough gold events to be able to utilize them. He far surpases every one else in research, gems, and troops. He has numerous equipped lord wardens. Plus all the tactics he has used so far has been close to flawless. He would be a hard player to beat, even on equal footing. Jotuheims lead in victory points don't mean much now as Man now has my capital, can easily take Pangae, and will probably be able to take both of Jotunheims.

[zlefin]

i'd say the problem stemmed from the fact taht the magic site setting was wrong, otherwise this woudln't have happened, probably no adepts of the order; and not enough gems to equip lord wardens.
but it's not over at any rate, everyone jhust needs to start piling on man (or go for their own win faster if they can)

[zlefin]

game has ended. winner: man played by rytek i think it said on page 1.
least i was alive at the end and had most research, and a passable game position.

[Zeldor]

Lol, Mictlan was probably the most pathetic nation in the game. Wasting so much research...

[Rytek]

GG all. I really enjoyed the settings. My first recruit of the game won it for me. It was a Witch with an E random. I set her off searching and she found the sight allowing me to recruit the Adepts of the iron order on turn 3. That same province also had the cedar pillars and another sight. It was making 12 gems a turn all by its self. Also, I believe it came with a lab! And then I got like 3 PD boosting events which boosted its PD to 55. lol. I got pretty lucky with events. Lots of gold and gem events. Got a Necromancer (Maerland killed him on a raid on one of my temples) got a level 4 air witch, and got the 3k gold event once.

Once I hit construction 4 I staged an attack on Pange using boots of glying and a few carpets of flying to gain surprise. I moved an army in behind my pretender and warden thugs. I had paralyze researched and a huge army of archers. But, even with my army and rexors barbarians I couldnt break the walls of pange with all his free spawns. TC attacked Pangea. I contacted Pangea player and we decided to attack TC. TC was more of a prize as he had a great gem income as well and I figured if I could make his lands mine, eventually I would win the game.

The battle of TC was definetly a gamble for me. That turn saw 1/2 my forces attacking TC and half attacking Jotuns army in my territory. My gamble paid off and I won both battles. Either one could have gone bad.

After that Ulm and Abysia attacked me. Agartha sent a large army at me which I ambushed at a choke point and killed with no losses. Was that frozen llama or his sub? I never quite understood that attack as (no offense) he came in quite dumb. I couldnt figure if it was overconfidence or desperation. In any case, Ctiss took advantage of Agarthas loss and attacked him. This allowed me to concentrate on killing Ulm while I generally counter attacked Abysia using remote spells and cutting of retreats and counter attacking any raids from Ryleh.

And finally, what was up with Mitclin? Did he understand the victory conditions? I never had any diplomacy with him. I opened every turn waiting for the attack that never came from him.

[zlefin]

i was mictlan. i understood the victory cnoditions, i was just never able to do that well on them. the game went by faster than i thouht, and in particular, people were getting vps at the end faster than i expected, so i wasn't able to fully utilize my research.
i wanted to attack you Man, but i don't like pure air drops, and i had only one unit truly capable of that anyways. I much prefer to have a retreat route. I asked r'lyeh to let me hold one water province that would give me a route to you, but he refused. My only other route to you was through Pan, and Pan had already attacked me; so I warred with Pan (and he wasn't willing to attack you, so there's no reaosn not to fight him).
There were people heavily preaching and stealth preaching on my border (caelum) so i wasn't able to use immortal pretende3r to push.
I think i'd beat Pan in time, but game ended.
I got tarts awhile ago, but I found out they fare poorly vs manikin so I went up construction. Without the artifacts I didn't have high enough paths to summon the other cool things in high conj. I did send a force of 80-ish wights into Pan, it was doing decent, but never got into a major battle. My new poison golem died to some kitted Pans and a whole lotta chaff, though it kille dalot as well. Making an equipped poison golem a turn was gonna do good damage to Pan I think.
I didn't have enouh gems to try putting up the forge or anything vs the spells already up.
I might've been able to kill caelum, but I just didn't want to rirsk a war on multiple fronts.
I just got an air queen as game ended; and once I got up ench that would open up a few more good chassis for other gem types.
It's just hard to fight manikin/maenad Pan with scs. There's so mcuh chaff to get through.
Also one of my guys, an aesir i think, disappeared mysteriously. It successfully fled frmo a battle, had 3 valid provinces to retreat to, and it just wasn't tehre. very odd.

My build would've workedf better under 0 magicv settings, as i'd have had more gem advantage over people that way; as not too many people take magic 3. (which gives tosn of gems with luck 3)

and i didn't contact you Man, because no diplomacyw as necessary, i'd attack you when i could, just could never get a path to you.

[Rytek]

Ok, I hope you dont take this as criticism and view it as pointers on how to improve your game but I would like to point out a few things to you:

Almost everyone in this game had luck3, magic3 scales. Your supposed gem advantage due to scales wouldnt have happened.

At some point, you need to realize you have enough research and start using your mages. When I look at the research charts, your research just keeps going up and up and up. Now look at mine, right at the point of the turn where my research goes flat line. That turn I used every mage I had to fight at either TC or fight Jotuns invading army. After that my research stays much lower during the middle of the game. -- I am using my mages to fight. My Warden thugs had flying mages following them casting ethereal, luck, protection, etc. My armies had mages casting buff and evocations.

You have recruitable flying level 3 priests. Holy cow I cant imagine how you had trouble with Mandrogas. You had well of misery up for a long time. summon some ghosts led by a wraith, in 4 turns you have 2 groups capable of stealthily swimming right in to my area!

In any case, I didnt realize Pangea gave you so much trouble. Pangea played a bigger roll in Kingmaker than I realized.

[zlefin]

that many peoplep had magic 3? huh, wasn't expecting that.
As to mages, i kept doing research cuz i needed ot research more things. Keep in mind, as mictlan, nearly all of my mages were the ?1 kind, so they don't tend to do a whole lot in combat.
and some of the others were busy forging important fhingts for my thugs/scs.
I ahd some ghosts, but the ghost life drain attack CANNOT harm lifeless, which the manikin seem to be for some reason.
I do think i'd beat pan in time; but armies of chaff with manikins aren't THAT easy. and i didn't have the right paths to get some of the better coutners until later (like poison golems).
given the position i was in, my only real hope fo a victory for quite awhile has been to get some scs, and for those scs to manage to beat stuff up.
banish, at long ranges, isn't that accurate. and while some of the manikin have low mr, many have 13+; and my armies were composed mostly of undead themselves, which cuts down on the usefulness of banish.
i could kill pan's raiding armies well enoguh once i pinned them down, but pan has a LOT of troops ya know. and some of my earlier army compositions failed.
if the game had lasted 12 more months maybe i woulda cut thru a portion of pan.
i'm not sure how many spawners he has, but i imagine he's spawning 50+ manikin a turn.
i'm happy with how i did, i lived. and if the game had gone on longer, i mighta done well.

[Zeldor]

Huh, you managed to get to conj9 and const9, but well, you, with communion mages, high A mages, did not think about getting stuff like Wrathful Skies vs those Pan hordes of chaff? Hey, you could even get master enslave or just normal enslave spam...

You totally wasted all your research and possibilities.

[LumenPlacidum]

Heh, the hordes of chaff were really exactly that. Was getting the pans ready for some major charm-spamming and all. I think I was about to obliterate the army of wights as the game ended, and your lich had Astral 1, whereas I had free event-spawned astral mages. I wasn't too worried about him, even with all his fancy artifacts. Unless, of course, you let him die outside of your dominion so losing the astral path and his primary weakness. Then, I'd have had some serious issues.

It's true that your poison golem killed a large force of chaff. Good earth magic gave me a response to them, though. I just never had the opportunity to deploy it.

Wrathful Skies, Master Enslave, or some other battlefield damage spell would have caused me the most trouble.

Was awesome to see how shishis did against tarts.