EA Oceans of Land - (Noob game) [running]

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, I was kind of surprised that he stopped raiding me or putting up any resistance. guess he just gave up when he finally realized that he'd never break me and now Sauromatia has come down on him like a Sledge Hammer. he's in a pretty hopeless situation now, so setting him to AI seems like the best solution, but if someone like Sensori(the master of comebacks from lost causes) wants to try and save it than let him...

as for Bogus, I don't recall seeing it as forbidden in this game, but it's generally frowned upon, so I'd say don't do it.

[SciencePro]

i posted an ad for caelum to be set to AI or subbed if someone wants. 48 hours added in the meantime. Sorry i didn't notice before

When I charmed bogus himself he came with an attack closest order. One of his buddies comes with an "attack commanders" order and another comes with a "fire magic users" order. Since those are useful, I just left them alone and didn't change them. I never thought anyone would consider it an exploit since I didn't do anything - just left the default on. If anyone has a problem with it I can change the orders to something else.

But I certainly didn't "copy" the order to anyone. Is that even possible? If so that does sound exploit-y to me.

[13lackGu4rd]

the problem is not so much with Bogus and company themselves, it's when you copy their orders onto your other commanders(and troops perhaps). yes it's possible and I've done it in SP just to check it out and it worked like a charm. it basically nullifies a lot of the enemy's positioning as you can just go straight for commanders bypassing his wise scripting, which is why it's considered an exploit.

[SciencePro]

yeah i'm reading some forum archives. It seems that llama-beast and others say it is okay to keep the orders as intended but not to copy them to other commanders.

That sounds like a reasonable rule to me. Is that okay with everyone?

I never even knew it was possible to copy orders. Now that I know how it will save me a lot of micromanagement. But I won't use it on bogarus because that does seem sleazy.

[SciencePro]

Calahan sent me this:

I can set Caelum AI for you. Or more likely I will put up a last stand if there's anything left at all to fight with.

so i sent him the turn

[Calahan]

Hi everyone

I just got the turn file. I'm going to assume I'm at war with a least Sauro and Kailasa. Please can you all let me know if there's any other diplomatic relations I should be aware of.

[Silence0]

It may be too late but if possible i would like a 24 h extension...

[SciencePro]

sorry just saw it. I'll try to check the forums more often. Does anyone need an extension now?

[13lackGu4rd]

not sure about any other diplomatic relations the previous Caelum player had, just note that the game rules prohibit under water expansion. the previous Caelum player seems to have forgotten that rule and conquered 1 under water province, than instead of leaving it alone he seems to have build a fort on it. I'm talking about province 47. if you'd be kind enough to set its taxes to 0 in case they aren't, and raze the fort than it'd be great. if there are any magic sites on it than please let us know, so we can give it back to the indies via ghost riders or whatever.

[Calahan]

Yeah, I meant to ask what the deal was with that underwater fort Caelum has, since I could see all the other UW provinces were still Indy controlled. So figured something was up. Taxes in the provinces were set on 200% when I took over, with unrest 200+. So I left it as it was and made a note to ask about it (and then clean forgot about it :doh:). Off the top of me head, I think the gem income is 1N from the Kelp Fortress.

Pretty certain there's a triton commander there, so I will get him to destroy the fort this turn. Not sure how to get rid of the 2N I've received since taking over though (will be total of 3N next turn). I'll have to have a think about how to get rid of those. (since if I agree not to use them, I'll probably just forget about it in a few turns time. If I'm still alive that is :))

[13lackGu4rd]

oh yeah, he set it to 200% hoping unrest will cause the province to eventually revolt. if it hasn't done that so far I guess it was a pretty bad plan... anyway, destroying the fort would certainly be good. as to the gems, I suspect he used all the gems he received from it thus far, so not much we can do about those now, just what you've accumulated thus far so I guess not using them would be best, no need to get you into more trouble than you're already in due to the lousy position you've inherited from the previous player.

[SciencePro]

sorry i should have told you about the "no ocean" rule. I forgot

[Doo]

Guys I have to announce that I will be advertising for a sub for the completion of the game.

Work has become too stressful and at the end of any given day I just don't have the Oomph to put in as much as I feel I should.

I'll start a thread in the MP forum and see who takes on the challenge.

*Edit* To add to the above I'd like to say thanks to you all, this has been my first MP game and I've had a hoot. I don't think I'll be joining anymore for a while, hopefully we'll all still be playing Dom3, if not I'll see you in Dom4 :)

[SciencePro]

okay thanks for playing and i'm sorry to see you go. 48 hours added to look for a sub

[Doo]

Good news, Graeme Dice has agreed to take over for me.

I don't know how these things are done, can somebody help the transfer?

[Graeme Dice]

Hey everybody. I'll be playing Ermor from now on I guess. Let me know if there are any diplomatic efforts I should be aware of.

[SciencePro]

Okay thanks for stepping in Graeme!

turn re-sent to new email address and another 48 hours added.

[13lackGu4rd]

I've lost much of my interest in this game for quite some time now. now I feel that I'm just playing my turns to get them over with, not really put m heart into them, as I've lost it... so if you guys wanna find a 3rd sub than that would maybe insert some fresh winds to the rest of you guys, if not than we'll just continue waiting for the executioner(Sauromatia) to finally finish this game...

[SciencePro]

alright. I see you've already submitted this turn. So maybe post a sub ad after the current turn hosts

[SciencePro]

so my real life has become too busy for dominions and I have to retire. I have posted a sub ad to take over my nation. Would someone here like to be admin?

[Calahan]

I've only recently subbed into this game for Caelum, but it appears to me this game is currently taking a path that a lot of games end up going through. Namely a big percentage of the original players needing to drop-out or going AWOL :(

This is the current players list I believe. (although it may well be wrong)

Caelum - Calahan (subbed in 2 turns ago)
Ermor - Graeme Dice (subbed in 1 turn ago)
Kailasa - Blackguard (original player. Currently looking for a sub)
Pangaea - SciencePro (original player. Currently looking for a sub)
Sauromatia - earcaraxe (original player)
T'ien Ch'i - Silence0 (original player)
Yomi - Dark Kitty (original player)

If SciencePro and Blackguard find their subs, then that means less than 50% of the players left in the game will be the original ones.


Where all this is leading is that do the original players want to decide if this game is worth continuing given all the subbing that has gone on/is going on. The two options seem to be either declare Sauro the winners, or just call the game off as undecided.

For my own part I will continue fighting Caelum's cause for a while. Although I warn that I myself might need a sub in a few turns, as I originally only subbed in to put up a few last forts defences for a dying nation, which wasn't likely to consume much of my time. But once in the Caelum seat I discover that wasn't to be the case at all, as the nation was far from being at the 'last defence' stage yet, as it appears Caelum by all accounts was a strong and fully functioning force until all the consecutive stales (while at war(s)) lost Caelum the bulk of its forces. The result for me is that a lot more time and effort is going to be required for this nation than I first anticipated. And while I'm more than happy to give my time and effort to the Caelum cause, other events dictate that the 'time' part of this last sentence will soon become a lot harder for me to find than it is now.


I've also played enough MP games to know that when you lose a big bulk of the original players like this, then the game is never the same again. It will feel different and play different for all the original players compared to how the previous 50+ turns have played. As even if all the subs can be found, there's often a case of all the subbing in players needing to say "what's going on?", and when this turns into the collective majority of the remaining players all saying "what's going on?" at the same time, then a lot of shine starts getting taken off the game, and it becomes nothing like it originally was.


I have no real say in the 'shall we continue' debate, as this is not really my game. But just thought I'd share my experience of cases like this that I've gone through in the past to say that the mass subbing will lead to a different game, and just because a game can continue (by finding the subs), doesn't mean to say it should.


As an analogy.. Imagine a TV show that suddenly changes over half the main cast of the show while off-air in-between series, and did so because they lost the original actors and actresses for whatever reasons.

Now could they re-cast the main roles of the show with new actors and actresses and return for a new series? Yes probably they could. Would the show be the same then? Absolutely not as most of the original cast have gone. So should they have even tried to re-cast? That's the question isn't it :)

[13lackGu4rd]

I agree with you 100% Calahan. that's the exact reason why I decided to look for a sub myself. the game just lost much of its appeal when quite a few original players got subs, and some died.

as for deciding the game, so far I've found no sub so I'm still technically in it, but I think that Sauromatia is in such a commanding position that he deserves the win. calling it a draw just won't do him justice Imho. also, I think it goes without saying that I support the end game decision, seeing that I'm looking for a way out(via a sub) already...

[Graeme Dice]

Personally, I have too many games going, and am happy to end it.

[Dark Kitty]

If that's the general feeling, I don't mind finishing it now either.

Congratulations to earcaraxe (I was just warming up, you were really saved by the bell :D), more seriously, impressive early game ;)

Unless earcaraxe and Silence0 want to go on?

[Silence0]

It´s allright to end by me..Congratulations to Sauromatia...Cool game and finally got to try Tien Chi...Great nation although i was lost at times with so many options...

[GrudgeBringer]

Sounds like you guys have more or less given it to Sauro by acclimation. No harm in asking for a consensus vote if most of you have lost interest, it is done everyday.

[earcaraxe]

Whooohooo!

My first MP game :D :first:

Thanks guys for giving me the chance to dive into multiplayer dom3, and thank you for the game.

I lost some interest too at the end, and i was wondering why.
My early game was so successful (arco and marverni didnt give too much of a resistance), that by about turn 30 i suddenly was commanding a huge empire (by my SP standards), and it was too much for me to handle comfortably, I didnt even know the majority of the spells, it was eating into my enthusiasm. In one of marverni's provinces i have found an ultimate gateway, i guess its one of the most powerful sites in the game. With (half-priced) well of misery up, i had more than a dozen tartarians with the chalice, all the 6 ice devils fully equipped, more than 100 vampires with vampire lords in strong dominion, the ankh and many other artifacts, and I could easily cast about 5 ghost riders every turn, which I found a very strong spell. it was hard for me just to coordinate all my armies.

In retrospect, i think i could have invaded pangaea sooner, but i hugely overestimated the strength of the maenads. And while i was amassing cavalry and equipped warrior sorceress thugs, he got a tart capable of stoneraining, flew over and killed most of them, nice move, grats! I got my revenge, may he rest in peace (pieces) :).

Grats for blackguard, who kept up nicely despite his middle position, partly by means of very skillful turncoating/diplomacy :angel . Formally u were my ally, but at the end I didnt trust u at all :) and u dispelled my global while we still had a NAP.

Btw u finally can now let me know who was that mindhunter i was enquiring about who killed some of my mages.

Grats for the leader of Yomi, who suddenly decided to get on the move, and was hugely succeful of conquering kailasa.

After the defeat of marverni i joined kailasa in the war vs caelum, and a couple of turns and defeats later he gave up too.

I was wondering what happened in the north? Did Ermor get in war with anybody? What happened to C'tis?

thanks again for the great game, i hope we meet in other ones too,

in the name of the witch kings, :)

:jam:

Earcaraxe

[Doo]

I was Ermor and just subbed out...

I didn't mindhunt you Sauro. I tried to be as confusing to you as possible when you asked me outright. I had no border with you so I thought it doesn't matter if you suspected it was me, and if this suspicion kept some of the heat off the supposed allies in the "war" against you more the better.

Ermor was involved in the destruction of C'tis. Ermor was cheeky towards Tien Chi and ate humble pie by being slowly pushed back by Tien Chi.

Ermor had an alliance with Yomi that was honored.

If I were to play MP again anytime soon I would have no hesitation in playing with any of you again, I had a very good time except for the "end game" where real life sucked my energy levels. I kinda feel bad that I didn't stick with it for a little longer to this ending.

[SciencePro]

congrats earcaraxe. good game everyone and goodbye

[13lackGu4rd]

ok, so this game is over. here we go for my first AAR:

first of all I gotta say that playing Kailasa under CBM leads to a very rough ride. without clams all those nice summons are just unaffordable, maybe a few Rudras here and there if it comes to that, but not much else. also without death at all they have no edge over any other nations as far as the Tartarian game goes, so it's a choice between the standard death bootstrapping Tartarian game or carefully hording enough pearls to get a few Rudras going, and using them to maximum efficiency while also being extra careful to not lose them.

with that said, the strategy I planned for in this game was to get some gem generating globals, mainly the Maelstrom and Stellar Focus to help provide a solid pearl income. I went for a bless strat, which lead to my imprisoned Oracle with S9W4N4 and Dom9, with the S9 bless my sacreds had just enough time for their awe to kick in, and W4N4 gave them that little extra in defense and regeneration to keep them on their feet longer. the Oracle, with S9, was planned to be a powerful astral caster for late game, so it was also useful besides giving me the bless.

so anyway, game begun very well for me, as expected with my chosen strategy. I was leading the province graph and later the forts and gem graphs. my main issue was that my starting location was right in the middle, not leaving too much room to expand, and being surrounded by potential enemies on all sides. so I quickly crossed the river to the south, hoping to grab some territory before those who started at the southern island took everything for themselves. I had partial success in it, but later on it gave me a lot of trouble. still I don't think I would have done anything different as I didn't have a better alternative.

than when indies were almost all gone I decided to wage war on Marverni, hoping to catch him still without many of those devastating Druids who would have certainly ruined my day. however I grossly underestimated the sheer size of his standard armies, and was stopped cold in my tracks after conquering just 1 province and later losing it and another. this move proved to be a total catastrophe as it led Caelum to declare war on me. from that point onwards my game plan went down the drain and I was put on the path of damnation. to bolster my armies I started going for drakes, mostly cave but also some ice, all cast by Dragon Mastered mages for maximum efficiency. I also put up the Mother Oak for good measure, and because nature gems are always useful, be it Vine Shields and other items, GoRs, Dragon Master, etc.

Caelum was the main nation I didn't want to have an early war with, due to their Eagle Kings, fliers and archers, all solid counters to my small sacred armies. Sauromatia was another enemy I feared due to their poison archers and very strong cavalry. also, due to very bad luck both of them happened to be on the southern island, along with Arco who honestly stood no chance in that position and with those 2 as neighbors. so anyway, as expected Caelum raided me heavily with his Eagle Riders, conquering a fort or 2 but otherwise not being able to hold onto any of my lands for more than a turn or 2, nor did he have a real army to really break me down. it was just raiding and a war of attrition. I Mind Hunted a few Eagle Kings, while looking for counters. eventually I had enough air gems to empower a single Yaksha in air, which gave me access to Enliven Gargoyles. I chose Gargoyles for a few reasons:
1. they cost earth gems, which I had in abundance. also had no problems with nature gems for GoRs, especially after I put up the Mother Oak.
2. they're solid thugs(or even magicless SCs) on their own, and can counter eagle kings.
3. they're flying, so they too have great mobility.

the Gargoyles proved themselves and repelled the Eagle Kings, nonetheless the damage was still done. my gem income was heavily damaged and my gold income wasn't doing too well either due to my provinces constantly exchanging hands. than at some point, after Marverni and Arco ceased to exist, the rest of the players finally realized that Sauromatia was starting to run away with the game. Sauromatia, in his 1 mistake that I could see, put up the Well of Misery to add insult to injury(leading most of the graphs, and by a good margin, as well as killing both Marverni and Arco). this helped the rest of us unite against Sauromatia, which eventually led to me using my now awakened Oracle to Dispel the Well of Misery with pearls I received from the other players. than Caelum and I were close to agreeing on a ceasefire and uniting our efforts against Sauromatia, however Caelum was too stubborn and prideful to withdraw from all the provinces and forts that he conquered from me, so I decided to keep our attrition war as it was clear that he couldn't push any further into me, and now with the 2 Kings of Elemental Earth and a good number of Gargoyles I was starting to push him back, and he still didn't really adapt and only used his Eagle Kings, and in the same manner. another reason for my decision was that leaving the situation as it was meant that I was doomed, cause even if we did succeed in pushing back Sauromatia, my position wouldn't be any better as Caelum and Pangaea would be the ones gaining most of the territories. so either way I was screwed, might as well stand up for my own pride like an honorable Japanese Samurai of old ;)

so, our efforts to coordinate an attack against Sauromatia crumbled. Pangaea tried pushing into Sauromatia, and had a decent success, but nothing that really impressed him nor deal any real damage. eventually I offered Sauromatia a temporary alliance against Caelum, after seeing that the mutual efforts against Sauromatia were going nowhere. so we started pushing hard into him and than he started staling.

at that point Calahan subbed in for Caelum and found a still pretty functioning nation, it's just that we didn't see the resistance due to all the previous player's lack of adaptability, giving up prematurely and starting to stale. than the game pretty much ended because most players, myself included lost interest in the game.

it's hard to draw conclusions from this game. on the 1 hand I think I used diplomacy very well, on the other my situation was seemingly hopeless right from the beginning, and my attempt to make up for it failed miserably. also the game didn't last long enough for me to really get into my Rudras, but the fact that we were playing more than 50 turns did reinforce my opinion that Kailasa's late game comes in very late and is generally inferior to many other nations under CBM as it was a very clam dependent nation in vanilla.

congratulations earcaraxe for using the very powerful Sauromatia properly, and not tripping on your path to victory. now that the game is over, I can finally admit it. yes it was I who mind hunted those 2 mages of yours(I think it was just 2) at first I wanted to anonymously try to keep you relatively in check by taking out key mages. but than I saw that my war with Caelum was going nowhere and the mutual efforts against you were also mute. so I gave up on that idea and just used it diplomatically to turn you against the other players in a desperate attempt to finally get the others to unite against you. good game everyone, and hope to see you guys in future games.