LA Aran Vanilla HELP BUG IN GAME

[Carpetbagger]

LA plain jane vanilla game on llamaserver playing on the imbalanced Aran map with 6 players. No nations starting in water, No graphs, Indys-9, and HoF-5. Fast intermediate lvl players preferred, 24 hour host until we need to go to 48hours.
:up:
Nations:
Bogarus-Carpetbagger
Patala-Graeme Dice
Pangea-legolasjrt
Gath-groundworm
Pythium-chrispedersen
Abysia-rmcolosimo

[Graeme Dice]

I'll play Patala.

[legolasjrt]

I Will by play pangea

[Zapmeister]

Can I reserve a spot, but nominate my nation tomorrow?
EDIT: Any chance of using CBM 1.6? (very few games don't)

[Graeme Dice]

The game says Vanilla right in the title. Despite the preponderance of CBM, not every game has to use it.

[Zapmeister]

The game says Vanilla right in the title. Despite the preponderance of CBM, not every game has to use it.

I realize both of those things. It was just a suggestion.

[Folket]

I can miss playing the original. But I'm in to many games already.

[Carpetbagger]

your welcome in the game Zap, but im sticking with flavor flav vanilla.

[Zapmeister]

your welcome in the game Zap, but im sticking with flavor flav vanilla.

Actually, I probably don't have time anyway.
I withdraw my signup.

Good luck with the game.

[Carpetbagger]

bump in the night

[GameExtremist]

I'd like to give Ermor a go in MP : )

[Carpetbagger]

ok, so we have 4 people so far, is dice and legolas still around and interested?

[Graeme Dice]

I'm always around, always watching, always being creepy. :)

[legolasjrt]

I Still here :D

[chrispedersen]

If you'll have me, Ill take a weak nation, say Pythium...

[Graeme Dice]

This game is actually up on Llamaserver already if anybody feels like submitting pretenders ahead of time.

[Carpetbagger]

still need somebody for that last spot or we can launch with a 5 nation game...

[legolasjrt]

i waiting for 6º player :(

[rmcolosimo]

Can I try Abysia? Never played them before in MP, but like them solo.

[Carpetbagger]

sounds great rmcolosimo! a hot nation will throw some spice into the game. now everyone please upload your pretenders so we can launch off. :)

[legolasjrt]

Send pretenders to llamaserver.

[chrispedersen]

I'd love to.. but I can't find the game... Nevermind. Game is vanilla..

[Carpetbagger]

waiting on the Undead Hordes.

[chrispedersen]

Doh!.. Can we get a restart. I submitted a god created with CBM on....

[Carpetbagger]

restarted so chrispedersen can reupload, leave a post and Ill restart the game.

[chrispedersen]

sent in, thanks and sorry...

[Carpetbagger]

game has started

[chrispedersen]

Wow.. anyone else having trouble with the indies?
My three adjacent provinces started with over 100 each!

[chrispedersen]

I have submitted turns twice now. Llamaserver is not accepting.

[Carpetbagger]

those woodsmen blowpipes are mean sometimes.

[GameExtremist]

Ahem....well this is embaressing, I believe I was either a little tipsy or sleep deprived when I posted my interest in this game and had totally forgotten till now.

I have no idea who is playing Gath, but good luck with the game and I apologize for not keeping an eye on my posts...I should stick to my no drinking/posting policy.

[chrispedersen]

Can we get a delay or something... I *still* cannot submit turns..

[Graeme Dice]

Well, _somebody_ is playing your turn, though I have no idea who.

[chrispedersen]

spoke to llama. working now.

[Carpetbagger]

who is the mystery pretender playing Gath?

[Graeme Dice]

So Bogarus attacked a province I had warned him I was expanding into. Our NAP is thereby canceled.

[Carpetbagger]

The pretender smashy kong is dead! Slayed by the Great Saranac. All other pretenders should rejoice.

[chrispedersen]

does that mean you'll be ggetting a turn in soon?

[Carpetbagger]

haha as I type llama should be working its magic.

[Groundworm]

I am the "mystery pretender" (kinda like that) playing Gath. So sorry about my lack of presence- I'm not used to checking the forums except when I need information about something specific. But, here I am, just a little late.

[GameExtremist]

Heres a free tip, jumping into games like you did is considered poor etiquette, you won't make too many friends by continuing this practice.

Sounds like
I'm having a ***** (and I am) but your new - so good luck and have fun ;)

[chrispedersen]

I am going out of town tonight and tomorrow night. I am going to try to get turns in on normal schedule. However, may I ask that if, necessary, may I have a delay?

[Carpetbagger]

yeah if u are going to stall i will delay.

[chrispedersen]

Back in town, mailbox cleared out thanks for the patience.

[Groundworm]

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm not sure exactly how the courtesies of multiplayer games operate. Therefore, lest I risk any bad feelings or commit a faux pas, allow me to state my intent to capitalize upon the conflict between Bogarus and Patala by eating into Bogarus from the rear.

For future reference, is it necessary to make such a declaration, since Bogarus and I did not have a preexisting NAP? Or would it have been acceptable for me to just attack without making this declaration?

Thanks!

[chrispedersen]

There are no problems if there are no nap treaties.

[Carpetbagger]

Come to Saranac!

[Carpetbagger]

It would be wise for Gath to leave the lands of Bogarus before Saranacs favorite dish becomes fried Gibbors!

[Carpetbagger]

Selling front row seats for Blessed Black Centaurs vs Elephants showdown!

[Carpetbagger]

The Promised Land shall now and always be under the domain of Saranac and the reformed faith! All pretenders heed this proclamation.

[chrispedersen]

Not a chance, per my previous private missive to you.

That land is in the middle of Pythium lands, and I have reduced those forces by half with a previous loss.

The rest of my communication with you remains in force as well.

[rmcolosimo]

The Promised Land shall now and always be under the domain of Saranac and the reformed faith! All pretenders heed this proclamation.

Eat fire Saranac. :)

[legolasjrt]

the game advances express, congratulations

[Carpetbagger]

fast playing fellows, it was nice!

Saranac phone home

[Carpetbagger]

wow i just wanted to give a shout out to that atavi archer who one shot one killed my single ghost on opening volley.

[Graeme Dice]

His heroic sacrifice has been noted.

[chrispedersen]

Guys I can't keep this pace up.
Can we get the hosting increased to 32 hours?

[Carpetbagger]

Set to 32h host. nice everyone has thier turn in already. Will get to my turn shortly. Painting my computer closet so will get my turn in asap.

[chrispedersen]

I do not have access to my computer.

May I get a 24 hour extension to the turn deadline?

[Carpetbagger]

Bug in game! Ok... I am postponing the game until we figure this out. I won the battle in Patala I forced their retreat in the siege watching the battle.... however turn results show me losing the battle and all my troops are dead! I will send my turn file to whom ever to prove I won the battle and so we can figure out this mess


I think i remember reading something about this.

[Carpetbagger]

do i just roll back or resend turn file?

[Graeme Dice]

It's a replay bug, they happen sometimes. The actual results are what is shown in the turn message.

[Carpetbagger]

a replay bug? i dont believe that crap! I had overwhelming forces. there is no way u could have won. I had astral masters of 5 and 3 and you had no one larger than 2.

[Graeme Dice]

Astral boosting items do not help against magic duel. So, you had nobody with an astral skill level higher than 3 for the purposes of magic duel.

Anyways, that the replay doesn't match the servers actual results is immaterial. I would not be asking for a rollback if I had lost that battle.

[Carpetbagger]

you had no one larger than a 2!

[Graeme Dice]

So? The yogis were the only mages casting magic duel. They have a 50% chance of winning against a S1 mage. Each mage rolls 1d6+astral level. The highest wins, the loser dies. A tie means both die. So your S3 mage would have to have rolled three higher than all 14 yogis in order to survive.

[Squirrelloid]

Carpetbagger, an S2 magedueling an S3 has a ~1/3 chance of winning. And on a tie they both die.

If S3 rolls 1, S2 needs to roll 2 for mutual suicide or a 3+ to win.
S3 rolls 2, S2: 3/4+
S3 rolls 3, S2: 4/5+
S3 rolls 4, S2: 5/6
S3 rolls 5, S2: 6/-

So, there's a 1/6 of each of those S3 rolls, the S2 requirements to win happen with P: 4/6, 3/6, 2/6, 1/6 respectively, x1/6 for the odds of the necessary S3 roll, is a total probability of the S2 winning = 10/36, or a little less than 1/3.

P of mutually assured destruction is a little less than 1/6 (5/36 to be exact).

So that means the S3 has a 15/36 chance of dying against an S2 in a mage duel. That's getting pretty close to 50%!

Anyway, the replay is wrong, the battle report is exactly right. There's no point whining about it and it isn't a reason to rollback a game.

Edit: S1 vs. S3 is a 6/36 chance of the S1 winning, and a 4/36 chance of mutually assured destruction, which is a 10/36 chance of the S3 dying, or slightly less than 1/3.

The odds of an S3 surviving 14 S1 mage duels is incredibly low. (26/36)^14 ~= 1%. The expected number of mage duels by S1s to kill an S3 is 4.

[Carpetbagger]

Sorry but I do not play games where the results of what is shown to me is not what happens because a server messes up. I guess I am a winner, i mean whiner. I guess I quit that makes me a quiter and a bad speller. password is 12345. peaceout!

[Squirrelloid]

Sorry but I do not play games where the results of what is shown to me is not what happens because a server messes up. I guess I am a winner, i mean whiner. I guess I quit that makes me a quiter and a bad speller.

The server didn't screw up. The server results are what are manifested in the game (ie, the units you can find on the map) and what the battle report says. The replay screw up is likely on the client side, although why it seems to be widespread on the client side when it happens I can't say. But it has to do with your computers reconstruction of the combat deviating from the servers running of the combat. The server only passes enough data to recreate the combat, not a video of what it simulated.

password is 12345. peaceout!

[spaceballs
That's the password an idiot would have on his luggage! /spaceballs]

[chrispedersen]

There is nothing to be done on this, it happens in virtually every game I play, sooner or later.

Essentially what happens is this: The server runs the battle, however the replay does not match up to the results displayed.

If you search the forums, you will find this replay bug occurs

-more commonly with mods.
-more commonly if there have been restarts, roll backs. In this case it corresponds to people not discarding *everything* and downloading the rolled back turn.
-more commonly when there are different clients involved. So for example, if the clients are on Dos and the users are on unix.

There is nothing to be done to increase the 'fairness' or accuracy of this.

Rolling back essentially gives the player that lost a free 'do-over'. Additionally, the element of surprise, tactics and placements are lost. It further increases the chances of corruption (game irretrievably broken) going forward.

Checking forum posts will pretty much confirm what I've said.'

Edit: Ninja'd by squirrel. Squirrels comment:
The server didn't screw up. The server results are what are manifested in the game (ie, the units you can find on the map) and what the battle report says. The replay screw up is likely on the client side, although why it seems to be widespread on the client side when it happens I can't say. But it has to do with your computers reconstruction of the combat deviating from the servers running of the combat. The server only passes enough data to recreate the combat, not a video of what it simulated. is on the money of what happens.

[GameExtremist]

You have to take the good with the bad sometimes Carpetbagger, the bug you have described has happened to many of us, although when it happens throwing a tantrum is poor form.

[chrispedersen]

Someone seems to have submitted a turn for Bogarus.
I think carpet is continuing (yah!). I 'll get a turn in asap.

[chrispedersen]

Ok... both carpetbagger and Pangeae went AI, despite the fact that we have a good volunteer to play bogarus..

I can't say how much I view this situation poorly. At this point, we have several options.

We can continue the game as is.
We can rollback the game one turn, and let SciencePro take over the Bogarus position.
We can vote to end the game.

I personally prefer #2 - but let me know what you think.

I'm delaying the game 24 hours for people to make a comment.
Chris


PS: when carpetbagger posted the password in open source.. I changed the administrative password, to prevent anyone from force hosting, etc.

I have no objection to passing the password on to someone else if someone feels strongly about it.

[Graeme Dice]

I say we rollback to the previous turn so that we can continue the game with the sub.

[Groundworm]

I'm also fine with rolling the game back a turn in order to let the relief play Bogarus without a turn of AI control. But what are we going to do about Pangaea?

If we can't get someone to take over Pan, we should perhaps consider ending the game, though that would be unfortunate.

I agree with you, chris. When I unknowingly (but with the best of intentions) joined this game without announcing myself, I was basically accused of poor sportsmanship. This, however, seems to be a far worse example of that.

[Graeme Dice]

I'm also fine with rolling the game back a turn in order to let the relief play Bogarus without a turn of AI control.

Going AI is permanent, and cannot be undone.

But what are we going to do about Pangaea?

Pan was almost dead, unlike Bogarus which still stood a chance after losing only one major battle in 40 turns.

[chrispedersen]

Are you sure?

[Zapmeister]

Going AI can't be undone from the turn in which it was ordered. But if you roll back to before that turn, it should all be good.

Who said time travel isn't possible? :D

[rdonj]

Yeah graeme, if you roll back to before the AI order was given you can search for a sub.

[chrispedersen]

Ok.. I got two responses to rollback, and that is my desire as well.

Adding sciencepro as bogarus.

Good luck all.

Science pro, let me know if you need more time...

ALL PLAYERS: Delete everything in your folder. Download the old turn. Keeping anything will drastically increase the chances of problems!

[SciencePro]

Okay it seems to be allowing me to play the turn so I hope it will work okay. I should get it in later today.

[chrispedersen]

Hey guys:

Science Pro has done well in a valieant cause, so I would definitely like to thank him.

I have sent a message to inquire about the stale. It could well be an isolated incident. Do we want to look into getting someone to set it AI?

Please discuss options (Science if you see this please feel free).

[SciencePro]

yeah sorry i thought i sent in that turn. I'm still fighting. Losing, but still fighting

[SciencePro]

crap. Staled again. I've been sick and I thought I sent in the turn but I guess i didn't sorry!

[chrispedersen]

Ug. It has come to my attention that gath has staled the last few turns. The position is not tenable. I am going to send a message to ground; and also look for someone to set him AI.

I'd like to say thanks to Science Pro again for sticking with Bogarus to the bitter end.

Chris

[GrudgeBringer]

chrispederson asked me to help and set a nation to AI...I can set Gath to AI (although his turn WAS submitted according to llamaserver this turn) but need chris to PM me in response to my PM to him this morning.

Someone let me know if conditions have changed or if they still need help with this.

[chrispedersen]

Abysia staled this last turn. Has played consistently and well till then.

I have sent an email to inquire. I'm not proposing to do anything unless they stale again; thoughts?

[Graeme Dice]

We can keep playing till you or I get bored.

[rmcolosimo]

Still here guys, just lost track of time and didn't get the notice in time to get my turn in. Sorry. :)

[chrispedersen]

Guys, I'd like to propose that we end the game, I think its just a matter of time, and perhaps we all would rather play another game?

[rmcolosimo]

Sounds fine to me. It took you what 3 turns to eat me up?

[Graeme Dice]

Sure

[chrispedersen]

Ok guys thank you for the game!

I would enjoy playing with all ofyou again!

[Graeme Dice]

Let's call this game then. Congratulations to Pythium to managed to donate enough gold to keep me and Gath in the game long enough to keep Bogarus from being able to conquer the world.

[chrispedersen]

Yep, 4000 gold, and almost 200 gems = )

Thanks Graeme. It was nip and tuck. The funnest part of the game for me was trying to keep us all alive.