call the winds

[militarist]

If I cast call the winds.. or send a horror.. does it have a sense to send them to one province ? Will they fight all together or each army independently?

[WingedDog]

Hawks from call of the wind are consider to be your troops, horror - special monster. There will be 2 battles in that province, order, I beleive, depends on casters ID.
But I think your plan was to kill PD with horror and then claim empty province with hawks. Usual tactic is to give oder to scout from adjoining province to MOVE into the province same turn you send horror to it.
Note: don't order scout who's in the province to Atack current province, as he may (and often does) attack it before horror.

[Redeyes]

Actually, the special monsters attack always happens before the one from rituals with units you permanently control - this includes teleport spells.

In effect, all spells like Send Horror (other example. Ghost Riders) will go together in one initial battle with Call of the Winds/Horde From Hell/Teleport spells happening immediately after but before regular troop movement.

If the special monsters win the province becomes independent, empty and of all troops. If you also ordered another army to enter (or teleported/farsummoned one) it will instantly be taken as would any other defenseless province.

[Folket]

If thought Ghost riders stayed in the province.

[rdonj]

Nope. Ghost riders come, kill everything, and then leave.

[chrispedersen]

Actually, the special monsters attack always happens before the one from rituals with units you permanently control - this includes teleport spells.

In effect, all spells like Send Horror (other example. Ghost Riders) will go together in one initial battle with Call of the Winds/Horde From Hell/Teleport spells happening immediately after but before regular troop movement.

If the special monsters win the province becomes independent, empty and of all troops. If you also ordered another army to enter (or teleported/farsummoned one) it will instantly be taken as would any other defenseless province.

Not true. Game just concluding we had call of the winds and horrors in the same combat against the defender.

[Calahan]

Attached is a quick test that shows the spells 'Call of the Winds' and 'Send Lesser Horror' always producing separate attacks, and the attacks taking place in a random order each turn (so very likely based on caster id# like everything else, and whether or not the id#'s are being processed high-low or low-high for that particular turn). Just host the game a few times to simulate the test.

At no stage did the spells produce a joint attack, since as WingedDog says, Horrors (and like spells) are tagged as 'special monsters' and Call of the Winds (and like spells) are tagged under ownership of the nation that cast them.


Not true. Game just concluding we had call of the winds and horrors in the same combat against the defender.
Please can you produce a save game to back this up. Since I think many would be very interested to see this as it would mean three different opposing 'sides' could be present at the start of a battle, and would go against common understanding of how the game works regarding battles.

Since as it is understood right now, all individual battles are always 1-on-1. Nation vs. Nation. Not Nation vs. Nation vs. Nation. (and special monsters summoned during a battle do not count as forces present when the battle is triggered and initiated)

[chrispedersen]

Sure, this was NVV game, which was a team game; our team files are available in our team folders (send me an email, I'll send you a pw).

I don't remember the turn#. but on the turn in question, our team Achoo cast ghost riders, horrors, and call of the winds at niefle. Cast respectively by Sauromatia, Mictlan, and Pangea by soulstone.

It was a foul up on our side, but nontheless we were surprised when there was only one fight.

[WingedDog]

It was a foul up on our side, but nontheless we were surprised when there was only one fight.

My explanation there was only one battle is: ghost riders and horrors are special monsters so they attacked province together killing the defenders, then hawks from 'call of the winds' claimed empty province.

[militarist]

"My explanation there was only one battle is: ghost riders and horrors are special monsters so they attacked province together killing the defenders, then hawks from 'call of the winds' claimed empty province"

That's clear about regular units, but not clear about PD.. if I cast horror, it kills PD, but PD has an ability to recover.Just I don't know if it's recovered each fight or each turn.

Another question - if I cast 2 calls of the winds or more into 1 povince - will they always fight together the same battle?

[thejeff]

If the birds, horrors, riders and Neifel troops were all in the battle at once, then that explanation doesn't hold.


militarist: Horror (or Ghost Riders, etc) kills PD, takes the province then leaves. The province is then an Independent province with no defenders. So a scout can move in and take it.

Any number of call of the winds cast to the same province will always arrive together.

[WingedDog]

militarist
1) Read this:

Usual tactic is to give oder to scout from adjoining province to MOVE into the province same turn you send horror to it.

Word usual means it is widely used. Widely used means it work.
Mechanic is following: horror attacks province, horror kills the PD, horror claims province for independents, horror dies, independents build no PD, scout enters empty independent province, scout claims province for your nation.

2) If 2 calls are cast by one nation at the same province - they both attack province at the same time at magic battle stage, since they represent the same nation.
If you move your troops to one enemy province from different friendly provinces do they fight together at the same time or there are several separate battles?

If the birds, horrors, riders and Neifel troops were all in the battle at once, then that explanation doesn't hold.
He said there was only one battle in province, he didn't say hawks attacked along with special monsters, and I'm pretty sure they didn't.

[thejeff]

The original post had:
Not true. Game just concluding we had call of the winds and horrors in the same combat against the defender.

The second one was less specific.

If it did happen, I wonder if it had something to do with the spells being cast by different nations?

[Mysterio]

Mechanic is following: horror attacks province, horror kills the PD, horror claims province for independents, horror dies, independents build no PD, scout enters empty independent province, scout claims province for your nation.

Is the bold portion true only for the turn in which the PD is destroyed, or for all turns following the PD's destruction while the province remains independant?

[Redeyes]

Is the bold portion true only for the turn in which the PD is destroyed, or for all turns following the PD's destruction while the province remains independant?Unless it gets an event where an independet army shows up (like a barbarian attack, or something nastier).


My original post is still accurate in every way and answers all the questions asked unless teams using farsummoning rituals at a single province messes things up - but It hasn't in my games.

[Graeme Dice]

It's also what happens when somebody gets dominion killed. All of their troops and PD vanishes. Still have to break down castle walls, but there's nobody inside.

[Psycho]

My original post is still accurate in every way and answers all the questions asked unless teams using farsummoning rituals at a single province messes things up - but It hasn't in my games.

Except this part which is false:

Actually, the special monsters attack always happens before the one from rituals with units you permanently control - this includes teleport spells.

It is randomly decided (by unit id) which happens first - the special monsters attack or the regular remote summon/ teleport attack.

[Mysterio]

It's also what happens when somebody gets dominion killed.

What is meant by "gets dominion killed?"

[WingedDog]

What is meant by "gets dominion killed?"

If you run out of white candles on the map - you lose the game. It is called dominion killed or domkilled.

[WingedDog]

The original post had:
Not true. Game just concluding we had call of the winds and horrors in the same combat against the defender.

The second one was less specific.

If it did happen, I wonder if it had something to do with the spells being cast by different nations?

If nation A and nation B cast horror and ghost riders respectively in a province of nation C - both riders and horrors join their forces in a single battle, since they represent one force - the Special Monsters. Hawks from Call of the Wind could never join that battle since they represent a nation which summoned them.
So my call it was the case and CrisP and his teammates just didn't watch the replay closely. If I'm wrong and hawks did joined forces with horrors and such - then the CrisP's post should take place in Bug Discussion tread, becouse it is not supposed to be tat way by game mechanics. And it is definitely not the tactic to recommend to a newbie.

P.S. A miracle is an event described by those to whom it was told by people who did not see it.
Elbert Hubbard
:)

[Calahan]

Sure, this was NVV game, which was a team game; our team files are available in our team folders (send me an email, I'll send you a pw).
Cheers for this Chris, I've just PM'ed you.