MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The more "near term" issue and something I was going to bring up a couple of years ago is I believe we should enter the current leased tanks in the Dutch OOB.

By the terms of the lease and a treaty that's in place the Dutch can use those tanks at any time for the defense of the Netherlands. Remember they are crewed by Dutch tankers. Given the times; this logically would make sense, and this is a wargame.

The Dutch realized not long after they got rid of their tanks that they had made a miscalculation, hence the lease deal with Germany.

Though initially the plan was for the Dutch to buy back those tanks from Germany and then donate them to the Ukraine, that didn't happen.

The Germans were hesitate about doing this because the Dutch have leased the most current version of the LEOPARD 2A6MA2.

What the Dutch and Denmark did was to order new LEOPARD 2A4 tanks too donate to the Ukraine instead.
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/ukraine-conflict-netherlands-orders-leopard-2a4-tanks-for-kyiv

Germany would send the Ukraine 16 slightly older versions of the LEOPARD 2A6 as I submitted and addressed for last year's submission.

SUMMARY:

NETHERLANDS/ADD/LEOPARD 2A6M2/START JUN 2018/END DEC 2025/COPY/GERMAN/LEOPARD 2A6M/UNIT 037. // By June 2018 the German/Dutch 44 Battalion would've been equipped with 40 tanks. The tanks they received were the LEOPARD 2A6M2 (Ref. 3 below.) . This same tank would serve as the "bridge" for the 2A7/2A7V. I believe they still operate these tanks presently but will need to verify this through my German sources. This is supported by the below refs.

Next in quotes from Ref. 1

"The Netherlands transferred to Germany the last 18 stored Dutch Leopard 2A6s. The Germans upgraded the tanks to the 2A7 standard then formed a new squadron under the German army’s Tank Battalion 414. A hundred Dutch soldiers joined the battalion, somewhat easing the German army’s manpower shortage.

The battalion is under German command but, in wartime, could support Dutch troops as part of a wider NATO operation. In effect, the Netherlands is leasing some of the tanks it once owned. "

The other 120 Dutch LEOPARD 2A6 tanks went to Finland I believe we made happen in the game.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2020/11/30/the-dutch-army-eliminated-all-its-tanks-then-realized-it-had-made-a-huge-mistake/?sh=65d2ca4035f1
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/world/europe/germany-defense-spending-european-army.html
https://www.army-technology.com/news/german-army-takes-delivery-modified-leopard-2-a6ma2-battle-tanks/?cf-view

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

SUMMARY:

NETHERLANDS/ADD/LEOPARD 2A6M2/START JUN 2018/END DEC 2025/COPY/GERMAN/LEOPARD 2A6M/UNIT 037.



???

Pat.... did you look at the Netherlands OOB unit 038??

That is the exact same tank as "GERMAN/LEOPARD 2A6M/UNIT 037."

Only the start date is slightly different because I gave the Dutch the updated version because there was NO POINT not to

.......and it's the 414th not 44th

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2024/02/06/netherlands-considers-creating-tank-battalion-but-needs-funding/

[B]Since 2015, the country has leased 18 Leopard 2 A6 tanks from Germany that form one of five companies within the German-Dutch 414 Tank Battalion.

https://english.defensie.nl/organisation/army/units/43-mechanised-brigade

The Mechanised Brigade has been part of the German 1st Panzer Division since 17 March 2016. 43 Mechanised Brigade’s 414 Tank Battalion is a fully integrated German - Dutch battalion. This form of cooperation is unique within NATO.

[MarkSheppard]

https://twitter.com/TheDeadDistrict/status/1760129181864595810

The Russian army is using the T-54-3 tank (adopted in 1951) in assault in Robotyne direction.

Previously T-54/55s were used only in artillery roles but recently Russians started using them in direct assaults as well.

(video of FPV drone smoking up an abandoned T-54-3.)

[DRG]

ROTFLMAO

I'm not even surprised

I am NOT adding this as a new unit for this year. T-54-3 is already in the Russian OOB and if anyone wants one they can build a scenario with one easily enough

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

We just came out of a Navy wide 2-week exercise plus prep prior to it. Dec saw us involved in another one week one even more important than the above which rolls around every 2-3 years and is considered the "mother of them all" that involved 3 months of prep just about.

On that one we scored 100% in all areas (We're contract armed security along w/Bangor WA. there are no others left in the military we're pretty "niche".) and DON military/Civil Service Police scored a 95% that made us #1 in this cycle.

Best we've done but it all meant no "peace for the weary" and Spring Training Opening weekend this Sunday will be the cure.

So yes, I checked the OOB by nomenclature name (refs.) and visual check yesterday morning revealed it was right under the "NL" LEO's but when I posted it was "invisible".

To make matters worse I realized we discussed this about 2-3 years ago by my notes and noted it as "fixed". :doh:

It seems to have confirmed my decision (Early Nov.) NOT to submit any submissions this year for the next patch as I saw the direction work would take and my need for normalcy away from work.

Things were interesting enough last year and though all was resolved, and a lot was accomplished I didn't feel like going through that again and felt it might've gotten worse had I tried this year.

I respect the working relationship very much and I just prefer to keep it that way. What I have can wait.

I've sketched out my plan and I won't have the final piece of the puzzle until mid-March or so. And hope to post the results of my "research" sometime in Apr./May.

Sorry for the confusion; and I'm like a couple of my co-workers are just going to enjoy the "after-glow" of our 100% and results as just concluded.
https://www.usff.navy.mil/Exercises/Citadel-Shield-Solid-Curtain/

We worked hard for it over the last 5+ months and maintain our vigilance but to also decompress a notch or two.

Yes, I take my job seriously and I can assure you we don't get paid "Mall Cop" pay. ;) :p :D

And as I said that starts Sunday with my best friend in the Universe CINCLANTHOME.

Have a great weekend everyone!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

ROTFLMAO
I am NOT adding this as a new unit for this year. T-54-3 is already in the Russian OOB and if anyone wants one they can build a scenario with one easily enough

It might be worth adding this tip for scenario designers:

Go into the Scenario Editor:

Set your battle date to sometime modern (2022-2024):

Buy your initial Russian HQ + force; hit DONE.

Buy initial Ukrainian HQ and force; HIT DONE.

Spin the battle date back to 1955 or so (after selecting another nation for Ukraine).

Buy all the T-54A and T-54-3 (or obsolete kit) you need for your Special Military Operation Russians in 2024. Hit DONE.

Spin the battle date back to 2024 and select Ukrainians again.

You now got your obsolete units in the scenario (this trick only works for stuff built in the scenario editor though)

[Suhiir]

It might be worth adding this tip for scenario designers:

Go into the Scenario Editor:

Another "trick" I use often is:

Even if your battle is intended to be a "Meeting engagement" or "Advance" you can switch it to an "Assault" if you want some, but not all of one side "dug in" or you want to add a few mines/dragons teeth/wire/etc. to one side or another. After you buy and deploy the mines etc. and/or deploy ONLY the units you want "dug in" switch it from "Assault" back to "Meeting" or "Advance".

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Understand the "clock" is fast winding down but, this just came across reading my "Sunday Papers" it would appear the Ukrainians just very recently added "wire cage armor" to all of their CHALLENGER 2 tanks on the sides and lower half of the front hull.

Ref. has very good pictures of both. If reporting it now would think FEB. "probably" a good START month for them.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2024_global_security_army_indus try/ukrainian_soldiers_enhance_protection_of_british-donated_challenger_2_tanks_against_russian_threats .html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

In game terms it adds nothing. It may make them feel safer though.

Slat in-game makes any armour it is placed on 35 HEAT protection and assumes that is more than what it was but the Chally already has more than that. Making the side heat 35 would be a 15 cm DOWNGRADE in protection

The only area it would benefit is the rear hull and that photo does not show it and the caption is "wire cage armor mounted on the sides of the hull." not the rear. Find me a photo of it across the back an I will make the rear hull 35. Even the early Challys had more Heat side armour than 35

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I found your last very useful since I wasn't aware of the relationship between "slat" and HEAT armor in the game.

No worries then, that "slat" isn't mounted on the rear as I checked that against other sources because when I read the article, I found it strange they didn't mount it on the rear much like we dealt with on the T-55S last year ++ (Slat).

Added after posting.

Speaking of the T-55S the Russians appear to have a very effective precision 152mm round. The drone was "painting" the tank for the round but, it's the angle of attack that caught my attention.
https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1679504540058501120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1679504540058501120%7Ctwgr% 5E3f590a1fd8c190e2fd5b26dea42bdf085f3fe9e7%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fembedly.forbes.com%2Fwidgets %2Fmedia.html%3Ftype%3Dtext2Fhtmlkey%3D3ce26dc7e34 54db5820ba084d28b4935schema%3Dtwitterurl%3Dhttps3A %2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FUAWeapons%2Fstatus%2F167950454 0058501120image%3Dhttps3A%2F%2Fi.embed.ly%2F1%2Fim age3Furl3Dhttps253A252F252Fabs.twimg.com252Ferrors 252Flogo46x38.png26key3D3ce26dc7e3454db5820ba084d2 8b4935

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Slat armour is designed to defeat RPG's and in game terms, it gives HEAT protection where in many cases there wasn't any HEAT protection before .....like an M113

The only thing that slat armour might do on a Chally is IMHO.. stop an RPG from messing up the Chobham which is a HELL of a lot more expensive and rare in Ukraine than steel slats which are almost a dime a dozen

So it does serve a purpose just not one the game covers.....cheap armour protecting the expensive and hard-to-replace armour

A secondary purpose of that slat might be as a place to stuff foliage for camouflage

ALSO look at any photo of slat on other vehicles.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYyUPsS6wnd9ADHjCst0pUhJT1nXtfi ZHsQl_KYbzmo85EO2nciX2Ys3gIwfB7qZ4uPGQ&usqp=CAU
https://www.warwheels.net/images/Mastiff3mod%20(1).jpg

There is a space/gap between the slat and the hull ( Like Schürzen in WW2 though it was there more to slow down AT rifle rounds)



. There is no gap on that photo of the Chally
https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/news/2024/March/Ukrainian_Soldiers_Enhance_Challenger_2_Tanks_Prot ection_Against_Russian_Threats_925_001.jpg

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Wondered why they didn't "space" it on CHALENGER like they did on the T-55S (Though the gap isn't as much as some but, it's there. Most likely time constraints possibly.).

Good info-Thanks!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The following is "off topic" but I thought it something different to offer a break from the ordinary and fill space while we await the patch.

What you'll see Fast Attack Submarines performing SINKEX's with MK-48 torpedoes and Harpoons including air launches of the Harpoon.

OSPREY Ops landing and takeoff from a Carrier (CVN-70 Carl Vinson).

Coastal USN interdiction vessel and the

USMC conducting training a "take down" of a vessel at sea.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/webcontent/us-powerful-submarine-torpedo-destroys-massive-us-navy-ship-during-training/vi-BUqUqAq5qJYy7Q?vid=Cvbf2qn_QWM&provider=yt&ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=04641ab3795149469ec394c5a28062fd&ei=168

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, this next makes me reminisce about our "long lost" N. Korean
resident expert Marcello who'll you'll find in this thread in the early stages of it concerning N. Korea and others.

So, N. Korea has unveiled an improved version of the M2020.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_october_2020_global_security_army_ind ustry/north_korea_unveils_new_main_battle_tank_using_des ign_of_russian_t-14_armata.html

The new version has appeared in "counter wargames" to the one we just wrapped up with the S. Koreans I believe it was just this past week.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2024_global_security_army_indus try/north_korea_unveils_m2024_main_battle_tanks_as_ten sions_increase_in_the_peninsula.html

I've had a long day as it was time for my annual weapons qual.

For now, though I see a couple of issues of non-concern for the K1A2 or K2 tanks due to the fact that I agree with the above ref. that it looks like N. Korea built both the M2020 AND M2024 using rivets on the hull and at least the forward part of the turret.

The older method pre-dating WWII was to build them using the "cast method" more modern tanks currently use the "wielded method" as it's more efficient and stronger.

In WWI rivets were used but it wasn't a big deal since hardly anything was available to counter them. However, they were also used in ship building most famously on the Titanic.

Bottomline, you couldn't pay me enough to take either one into battle.

The below ref. will show this clearly in the top picture if you "blow it up". These tanks I feel are however probably more capable than their current fleet of tanks in service from what I can see so far.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-s-kim-puts-west-on-notice-by-operating-world-s-most-powerful-tank-during-live-fire-exercises/ar-BB1jSDaa?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=88378c5de3ed41d1a6407c681ef814db&ei=33#

As a note of possible future concern is that their main tank factory has in the last 3-4 years or doubled in size.

I need some rack time so Good Whatever!?! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat

As usual, it's the middle of the night

Two things I need.

(1)Are these the "rivets" you spoke of ? ( Red arrow )

https://i.imgur.com/CUJxgFv.png

If yes that does not looks like it might be anything but add on spaced or NK composite armour. At least those ones have the look of something real and not sheet metal Potemkin tanks as in the previous links of them driving on parade.

Especially in that location where "mud guard" might be a better description

(2) How did Kim Boy Dumpling ( Blue arrow )
https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1jSERZ.img?w=768&h=432&m=6&x=752&y=428&s=33&d=33

actually get through the drivers hatch?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To the "RED" I strongly believe so as the ref. first analysis also suggests.

To the "BLUE" lots of grease with a quick change to a matching outfit. :D

This can all wait we need more info I've got the main gun and ATGW fairly figured out but need more time for the rest.

Again, these are not for a parade these both have been seen in numbers enough for us to enter in a large exercise.

Now to work.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I totally agree with one comment on https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/new-north-korean-mbt/ in regards to the ones shown on parade

the tanks in those pictures look so fake… i don’t know if it’s the light or the poor resolution, but they just look like cardboard glued over another tank model.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As you know I like those guys you've ref'd and have many times used them for refs. for my submissions.

Alright seems you want to pick my brain a little more, OK, the number of road wheels seems reminiscent to an issue that came up of another possible T-72 variant the three of us were discussing (As posted in my last.) many years back in this thread involving an extended version of the T-72 with some other possible improvements.

They've got larger engines that would more than adequately fit and support a heavier extended T-72.

What would be the quickest way to put together a "shell" made of steel plates and keep costs down and produce them quickly?

Cut your Steel, spot weld as needed and assemble the pieces and securing the plates with-rivets. A Jigsaw Puzzle if you will.

Yes, I'm suggesting a "shell" might be overlayed onto the hull and installed around the turret. It would be easy to produce, assemble, mount and shape.

There were stories to indicate a similar process also occurred with the T-14 ARMATA to get it out there for propaganda purposes both at home and abroad. I feel to a degree that this "might" be the case with the M2020/2024.

This is just one possibility running around inside my head.

I had and Marcello I believe used the same website that focused solely on N. Korea. I need to review those posts for the website and refresh my memory on what was discussed at that time as I feel it'll lend clarity to what we are discussing currently.

But I can't assume that there's nothing here either. The above is my worst case would these tanks be a possible game changer. Yes, but for N. Korea mostly but not the world.

It's getting late and in 11 hours I'll be knocking out the first of my 7.5 miles.

Those leads I seek are in those posts and so is that website if still up.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

ALRIGHT PAGES 11-15 THIS THREAD SOME OF MY WORST CASE ABOVE DISCUSSED IN THOSE PAGES FOR A COUPLE OF TANKS TO INCLUDE MARCELLO AMONG OTHER ITEMS. KPA JOURNAL WAS THE SITE LAST ARTICLE RELEASE DEC 2013. Signed up for newsletter still active so took a shot however site is unsecure so be CAREFUL however I have very robust anti-virus software so I got in and out fast. We'll see if I get a response

Done playing-gotta pay the bills later. ;)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright got just a little bit of time here as I really would like to enjoy the rest of this night before going back to work Tue.

1. I'm able to safely get to the KPA Journal site without issues. The links are still good to the most recent tanks N. Korea was operating with full analysis at the time of each that we were trying to decode ourselves between Don, Marcello and myself at the time.

2. Time to meet the man:
https://www.csis.org/people/joseph-s-bermudez-jr
His resume is most impressive and it always "bugged" why his name sounded familiar. After reading the above I found out why it was his writing for JANEs in particular IHS Markit (formerly the Jane's Information Group) on material unrelated to this topic or Thread. There are few that can rival his current employer in the world as well.

3. KPA Journal seems to be "live" but not updated since Dec. 2013 for his last publication. He did respond at the time to a couple of inquiries from me regarding the tanks in question at the time which as some here know is not something I haven't done in the past with some success in the past except for France. I see there's an email on the site maybe I'll take a shot.

4. From this Thread again, Pages 11-14 are in play. In particular POST 114 PG. 12. I've started to read again refs 2-4 of that post as it relates to the tanks.

5. So far since my post from a couple of days ago I'm convinced there is definitely some metal work been done to the M2020/2024 tanks.
I'm also taking a hard look at the masts of the tank in particular a GPS and Weather masts that are critical part of any modern FCS.

I have time to figure this out. Just as I feel the T-14 ARMATA is more a "Paper Tiger" (Not necessarily saying it's a bad tank but, I don't think it's much better or as good as the T-90M 2023.) I feel the M2020/2024 tanks won't be much better in fact I feel they'll be worse.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

The "opus" could be coming. ;)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

British Intelligence is declaring that the T-14 ARMATA has officially entered service with the Russian Army this month.

They will likely be attached to the 1st Guards Tank Army that's responsible for the security of the Moscow Region.

They will not be deployed or used in the current and ongoing war in the Ukraine from the above and Russian MOD.

This is to avoid capture and or destruction as it would involve national embarrassment. Also cited are its expense to build and maintain. Further the logistical support for the ARMATA is not yet set in place.

The other reason is the reported low reliability of the tank overall as even reported by the Russian MOD and posted in this thread and elsewhere.

I fully understand now that we have a firm date the fixes will be made for the START date, however we also already know for all practical purposes the armor is NOT as good as thought and neither is the MG.

The issue stems from the reported facts that the T-90M employed the T-14 armor elements on the sides and turret and was equipped with the same MG. A small number are rusty hulks in the Ukrainian countryside and about 5 were captured and safely out of the country to be reverse engineered. Just like has been reported Russia is doing with the abandoned BRADLEY they showcased in MOSCOW.

We just need to fine tune it at some point.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_march_2024_global_security_army_indus try/british_mod_intelligence_confirms_entry_of_latest_ generation_russian_t-14_armata_tanks_into_service.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat note also the roof and other parts of the T-14 you will see rivets similar to the ones you were pointing out on the NK vehicles

https://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/news/2024/March/BritishMoD_Inte_lligence_Confirms_Entry_of_Latest_ Generation_Russian_T-14_Armata_Tanks_into_Service_925_001.jpg


ALSO if you watch that video at the end the close ups of the T-14 have a "tinny" look like the NK "tanks" on parade and my feeling on this is what we might be seeing there and on the NK tanks is a thin protective skin over the composite armour AND the "rivets" are in plain view

Finally.............ANY armour values we assign to this and virtually every other MDT are estimated and ask 100 people to submit their estimates what you are going to get is 100 different estimates

So "fine tune" to your heart's content it is just one more "opinion" based on pure guesswork and the only way we will ever get hard data for it is when someone puts a hole in one and true experts fully evaluate the hulk AND THE TRUE DATA IS RELEASED.

It is also leaping to conclusions to assume that because the T-90M employed SOME OF THE T-14 armour elements on the sides and turret means that converts 100% to the armour on the T-14

The same has been true for YEARS with the US versions of the Abrams...... all guesstimates

[MarkSheppard]

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/PYH20240321012400315

This photo, provided by Hyundai Rotem Co., shows the arrival of the South Korean arms maker's K2 battle tank in the Polish port city of Gdynia on March 20, 2024. The company said it has shipped 18 K2 tanks to Poland from March 12-20 under a contract to deliver a total of 180 units to the Eastern European country. (PHOTO NOT FOR SALE) (Yonhap)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I have to say this has been the "quietest" pre-release of a patch in many, many years.

So, with that in mind, maybe room for this? :dk:

SPAIN/CHANGE/M-60A3 TTS/UNIT O26/END/MAR 2024 VICE JAN 2025. //
The last Company of these tanks belonged the Marines of the Third Mechanized Landing Battalion (BDMZ-III). The Army divested theirs when they received the LEOPARD E tanks. Some are surprised they were not donated to the Ukraine, however at the current asking price (Possibly with negotiation could be lower.) and the relatively low cost to modernize, it's still possible they could get there.
The delay in retiring them was due to funding for the "DRAGON VCR 8x8" armored vehicle. There is speculation that both the Army and Marines will be armed with the DRAGON 120.
https://en.topwar.ru/239498-tanki-stali-bespolezny-dlja-flota-ispanija-vystavila-na-aukcion-m60a3-tts.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/spain-auctions-off-cold-war-era-m60-tanks-bypassing-ukraine-aid/ar-BB1kP0Yr
(BOTH GP)
https://www.outono.net/elentir/2023/03/29/is-the-spanish-marine-infantry-planning-to-reactivate-its-old-m-60a3-tts-tanks/
(Good background and date information in here.)

Modernization:
https://www.leonardo.com/en/news-and-stories-detail/-/detail/the-m60-a3-programme-from-the-tank-to-the-third-generation-armoured-vehicle
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product.php?prodID=4428&printmode=1
(PLUS, THE OPTIONS OFFERED BY Israel and Turkey.)

DRAGON VCR 8x8:
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_october_2023_global_security_army_ind ustry/spanish_ministry_of_defense_advances_in_vcr_8x8_dr agon_program.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

That is actually a big change. It retires the last unit class 13 vehicle in that OOB which retires the formations as well

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Kind've validates my decision to back off well, "last" year for submissions then. One "simple" date change and the world goes to poop.

Sorry for the extra work.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Not really that much work just somewhat significant to the OOB as three formations disappear after that date. Anyone who might play regularly as Spain will notice

[MarkSheppard]

https://twitter.com/NAMELESS_JSDF/status/1774492716367221064

For the Japanese OBAT:

#ありがとう74式戦車

As of today, March 31st, 2024, the retirement of all Type 74 tanks should now be completed nationwide

[The final Type 74s are expected to be withdrawn from service in March this year].

The Type 74, which has served with the GSDF for 50 years, holds the record as the longest-serving tank in Japanese history! Now, they can finally take their well-deserved rest.

Goodbye my all time favorite 2nd gen MBT, It might be gone, but it will not be forgotten, just like those that came before it.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I have to get up in just a few hours for an eye appointment so, I'm just going to just hit the highlights.

1. Romania in May will start field and live firing tests of the export version of the South Korean K2.

If these tests are successful it'll lead to a final contract for 300 units.

There is NO TIMELINE for deliveries. And based on the below probably our ready built export version won't make it in the game due to the following.

2. As I've already posted, South Korea has already started a 4th batch of K2 tanks comprising of 150 units. Deliveries are to start from 2024 - 2028. There is fallout from this.

A. It now looks like the M48A3K/A5K will be around until the deliveries are completed.

Yeah, I know based on what we had at the time (Info.) I believe we have started phasing them out. If we went END for the M48A3K in DEC. 2024, I would recommend leaving it as such.

The M48A5K I believe was set for END DEC. 2025.

B. The K2 production was supposed to have ended after the 2nd batch was delivered.

Then I reported a 3rd batch was approved with final deliveries having been completed last Fall.

C. The story ends here with the "death nil" for the K2 PIP we worked on about 4-5 years ago. Don and I had been discussing its deletion as recently as last year.

He'll correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe we held off due to the fact that at the time of working last year's Patch we didn't have a final decision on moving forward on the 4th batch from South Korea.

That changed at the end of last year when it was announced. We can SAFELY Delete the K2 PIP now.

South Korea is already looking beyond the "PIP" as I believe I posted already and is still about to or recently has finished the production run for the heavily modernized K1A2 as submitted last year. I've used it and it's playing as expected.

Don I gotta get to the rack or else someone won't be very happy with me. ;)

I'll get you those Unit numbers later today early evening.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2024_global_security_army_indus try/romania_to_begin_field_firing_tests_with_south_kor ean_k2_tanks_ahead_of_potential_acquisition.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat

There is no M48A3K in the SK OOB and there never has been------- A5K only although on some websites it is named M48A3K/A5K

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Yeah, I see that now as well Army Rec. combined the names also "tord"
M48A3K/A5K and they got me. :doh:

I had myself confused with UNIT 015 M48A3. Thanks!

So, UNIT 020 M48A5K is good as is.

About UNIT 033 K2 PIP let us leave it alone for this year because of the following.

What I referred to as the K2 PIP replacement is designated the K3 with this ref. next. Notably it'll have 130mm MG with a prototype by 2030. From my files last JUN 2023.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_june_2023_global_security_army_indust ry/south_korea_unveils_design_concept_of_future_k3_mb t_main_batle_tank.html

Then I just found this dated FEB 2024.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/k2-black-panther-k2-pip-upgrade-means-monster-tank-scary-deadly-209733
I have LOW CONFIDENCE in this as it does not fit the TIMELINE in regard to the 4th production batch of the K2 as noted a couple of times in this thread between 2024 -2028 with also the K3 PROTOTYPE by 2030.

We'll know about PIP by the end of this year.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, we won't see them in time, but they are newsworthy none the less.

I speak of the CHALLENGER 3 and M10 BOOKER.

Britain has just received its last PROTOTYPE (8th) at the end of last week. The test plan requires all eight must complete their evaluations successfully before they proceed with initial production (Might be driven by lessons/costs learned from the continuing evaluation of the AJAX.) as the focus will be different for each unit i.e. gunnery and protection evaluations etc. etc. (Though all will be evaluated overall as well.) and consolidation of all the data as needed to be incorporated into all the PROTOTYPES (Except maybe for the 1 or 2 involved in the armor evaluation.)

Initial operating capability (IOC-mine.) is expected in 2027, while full operating capability is scheduled in 2030 (FOC-mine.) . From Ref.3 below.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c25r15dj9n9o
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2024_global_security_army_indus try/british_army_close_to_receiving_europe_s_most_powe rful_main_battle_tank_the_challenger_3.html
https://www.army-technology.com/projects/challenger-3-main-battle-tank-mbt-uk/?cf-view

The USA did the opposite by receiving their first M-10 PROTOTYPE this past week. Though the 2nd ref. is a little "exuberate" in fielding by FY-2025 (Oct. 2024.) the reality is that the 82nd Airborne "All the Way! " w/o production delays of the PROTOTYPES will START OPEVALS late this year.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2024_global_security_army_indus try/us_army_takes_delivery_of_first_production_m10_boo ker_mobile_protected_firepower_light_tank.html[/url]
[url]https://www.armyrecognition.com/defense_news_april_2024_global_security_army_indus try/us_army_awards_technical_support_contract_to_gener al_dynamics_for_m10_booker.html

We'll miss this one by a couple of years as well.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Aeraaa]

That's a funny one, it's basiacally evolution of 21st century tank:

https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/colonelcassad/19281164/4606579/4606579_900.jpg

[DRG]

M10 BOOKER.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

If anyone finds good data on hull length and width post it please. I can guess based on the photo but I don't want to ( been there------done that then redid it.......which I will again )

Rough WIP compared to Abrams
https://i.imgur.com/dY6zylU.png
https://i.imgur.com/8UT4RNj.png


a few more tweaks until we have some solid dimensions ( 4x )
https://i.imgur.com/ZKRmSAw.png

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

"The M10 Booker light tank has the following dimensions:

Length: 24.9 feet (approximately 7.6 meters)
Width: 11.2 feet (approximately 3.4 meters)
Height: 9.2 feet (approximately 2.8 meters) "

From an MSN article from Oct. 13, 2023, titled "New Gem for the U.S. Army. The light tank M-10 Booker."

I'm unable to retrieve this article from MSN. I get the following message when I try; "This page no longer exists. New search page will load automatically. "

I get re-directed to the current MSN page. It's the only one I've seen with these measurements.

My "Copilot" puts it on top (The same article.) as well in its search as well.

At least I can say I found it first that's why I'm the Pilot. :p

Sorry best that I can do.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

"The M10 Booker light tank has the following dimensions:

Length: 24.9 feet (approximately 7.6 meters)
Width: 11.2 feet (approximately 3.4 meters)
Height: 9.2 feet (approximately 2.8 meters) "

From an MSN article from Oct. 13, 2023, titled "New Gem for the U.S. Army. The light tank M-10 Booker."

I'm unable to retrieve this article from MSN. I get the following message when I try; "This page no longer exists. New search page will load automatically. "

I get re-directed to the current MSN page. It's the only one I've seen with these measurements.

My "Copilot" puts it on top (The same article.) as well in its search as well.

At least I can say I found it first that's why I'm the Pilot. :p

Sorry best that I can do.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


I was 1 pixel short on hull length. Width was 2 pixels too wide but I included added side armour and IDK if those dimensions of of standard hull or not.......all things considered.. "close enough" but an easy tweak makes it better.

Now I just need to confirm where the engine is and any air intakes

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

FRONT Mounted engine.
https://militaryview.com/m10-booker-mpf/
(#5)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/united_states_us_army_list_modern_mbts_main_battle _tanks/m10_booker_mobile_protective_firepower_mpf_light_t ank_data.html

TI/GSR 60 based on FCS has "Hunter Killer" capability.

Can have modular armor packages.

WORK!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

It also says........Protection against the firing of small arms, artillery shell splinters, and IEDs ........... so don't expect it to go toe to toe with a T-90

My WAG is these are support units for Bradleys and it sounds like they have comparable armour though the Booker is 10 tons heavier that might all be in the gun and turret.........time will tell

[DRG]

We are watching how all this develops......it might proliferate further......or not

3x normal

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2024/05/14/ukrainian-troops-have-figured-out-how-to-destroy-the-russians-turtle-tanks/?sh=7510aa416e3f

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16994&stc=1&d=1715878062


I know that is not exactly how they look but without the cage, it looks like a house with a gun barrel and there are many variations on the basic design anyway and the cage makes it stand out

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17003&stc=1&d=1715952351

This is an APC....... all are still WIP and may or may not end up in the game as well. The important point is it is instantly recognizable for what it is even though it may not be exactly like the the " real thing"

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16997&stc=1&d=1715951744

The "trick" is finding the right variation
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16999&stc=1&d=1715951864https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17001&stc=1&d=1715952049

[DRG]

The Bookers are nearing completion as I find more photos showing details
3x normal --WIP

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17006&stc=1&d=1715952824



If anyone wants to run a game with a Booker right now, borrow a Thai ASCOD LT 105. It's not too far off. Both are built from many of the same design components and while that was entered nearly two decades ago based on IDK what info and while it was enough to build an Icon and unit for it I am not finding any evidence the Thais ever bought it so that's a new can-o-worms I just opened. It appears they are still using the Scorpion!:doh:

That said, it would not be too far off to say the Booker design is 2 decades evolved from the work done on the LT105

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The following shows current for 2024. That being said the OPLOT-T is missing. There was some talk almost a year ago to suggest the Ukraine might want them back using the allied weapons and reconstruction "super fund". I haven't seen anything to verify that's the case.

STINGRAY II also missing from the list, which at the time caused me to get a headache in verifying they had it. We finally settled on getting it into the OOB by a "little more than a thread" if I recall.

Scorpion had a major upgrade in 2011 that improved FCS to include the TI/GSR how much I'm not sure of at the moment.
https://www.militaryfactory.com/modern-armor/royal-thai-army.php

Been extremely busy especially these last 9 weeks or more that has now involved my Congressman (Soon my Senator as well.) dealing with an issue concerning possibly 100's of retired veterans.

On the upside my PSA is still going down by more than 1/2 since it peaked at 10 (Which is not good.). I asked my specialist about it seems he and his partner have no medical explanation for it. it seems I'm the first they've had with this situation. Of course! :doh:

Take care of yourselves!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

https://www.army-technology.com/news/news130202-html/

The TSS system can provide direct fire capability to artillery platforms such as 155mm Howitzers and consists of the STAWS integrated with assisted-aiming fire control software, a commander’s display and a gunner’s display.

The assisted aiming software uses the laser-sighting capability of the STAWS to provide the Scorpion tank with advanced direct fire capability under all battlefield conditions.

I gave it

Ti/GSR 40
FC 20
RF 22

Start date 6/111

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Thanks, seems those numbers are more than reasonable.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

It is what I expect a " major upgrade" in 2011 that improved FCS to include the TI/GSR would be

I can see why the Thais like them and want to keep them.
One-- they are paid for.
Two-- they are small and have adequate firepower and because they are small ( 8 tons with low ground pressure) they can go places heavier vehicles cannot plus the Average Thai Male is under 5 and a half foot tall and weights 150 pounds...... good fit for a Scorpion

[MarkSheppard]

That weird new North Korean MBT seems to have possibly entered limited service:

https://forum.warthunder.com/t/ch-onma-2-production-even-better/98052

However, in 2020, an entirely new vehicle was unveiled as North Korea’s new best MBT. It was dubbed M2020 by Western analysts, but in May 2024, its name was revealed during an arms exhibition as Ch’ŏnma-2 / Cheonma-2 / (천마-2호).

In 2023, the Ch’ŏnma-2 was revealed with a new ERA kit, and in March 2024, the vehicle was shown during training exercises, with all 9 vehicles having entered service with the 105th Tank Division.

The name can be discerned from the background in the rough time frame of around 24:58 in this video:

https://youtu.be/x2uIsZsmCNE?si=LqBrOHsI3mEuYuON

where Kim visits a military institute.

[DRG]

If you see any more info on this...a top view would be great...... post it please

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

These might help first breaks it down equipment wise from their analysis and second bottom picture I think will be about as close to a "top down" as we'll get. Can't recall ever seeing a true "top down" on any of the newer NK tanks.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/discover-north-koreas-new-main-battle-tank-the-cheonma-2
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2024/discover-new-m2024-north-korea-tank-using-technologies-of-us-m1a2-abrams-russian-t-14-armata

Got places to be.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

If anyone finds a reliable source that gives the length and width of the hull that would be helpful

Based on what little we have seen and various descriptions this is a very, VERY WIP first attempt

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17011&stc=1&d=1717338190

v3

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17013&stc=1&d=1717347288

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Hardly anything out there but, this is the best I can find.
Overall Length: Approximately 12.4 feet (3.78 meters) 1.
Overall Width: Approximately 7.4 feet (2.25 meters) 1.
Overall Height: Not explicitly mentioned in the available sources.
Specifications:
Mass: Greater than 50 tons (estimated to be around 55 tons) 23.

That being said I think that's crap. We know they are building T-62/64 hulls and have "added" on to them to get some of the recent tanks they've come up with. It is thought they can now produce a limited number of T-72 hulls.

And if you account for only the weight issues the T-72 makes the most sense here as they averaged around 45 tons to the NK M2024 is thought to be more than 50 tons with most "pointing" it at 55 tons.

You could get there with the T-64 at 38 long tonnes/42 short tonnes but looking at the pictures from one of the refs I'm looking at of the engine compartment; I'm now thinking "Hmmm" I'll post it so you can take a look and it sits better in that lower profile that the M2024 seems to also have.

See what you think and remember the Ukrainians had gotten a 1200 HP engine into their newest versions.
https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/ussr/T-64.php

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Hardly anything out there but, this is the best I can find.
Overall Length: Approximately 12.4 feet (3.78 meters) 1.
Overall Width: Approximately 7.4 feet (2.25 meters) 1.
Overall Height: Not explicitly mentioned in the available sources.
Specifications:
Mass: Greater than 50 tons (estimated to be around 55 tons) 23.

That being said I think that's crap.


I will agree with you on that

A T-55a hull was 6.2m so 3.78 is way off unless the NK's are CONSIDERABLY smaller than I thought they were

I suppose one way to measure would be to estimate the size of "Dear Leaders" head and then scale it from that but it's not really reliable :shock:

What this appears to be is something of a hybrid design like they took the Abrams ( and there was some chatter that they had one courtesy of ISIS ) and the T-14 . The raised engine compartment is reminiscent of the Abrams and it is a way to shoehorn a larger engine in

Eventually we will get better numbers and the T-72 theory is sound. That "society" will never invent anything new but they will adapt other peoples designs to their needs

My guesstimate hull is the same width as a T-72/T-90 but a bit longer and has 7 road wheels as does the Armata.... T72/90 have 6 so it's kinda a T-14/ Abrams mash up for the hull and something closer to a western style turret

[DRG]

HOW could I resist??

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17018&stc=1&d=1717361423

Thats 11 with room on each side with 1/2 each so 12 kimheads wide
Google "How wide is the average male adult head"
Get "Average human head measures 6-7 inches in width"

Lets say 11" with the padded helmet 11" x 12 = 132" = 11 foot = 22 pixels wide which is right in the ballpark when using a kimhead scale

T-72 3.89 m (12 ft 9 in)
T-14 Armata is 3.5m wide which is 11.4829 ft

[Dion]

"Kimhead Scale"! LOL

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

If bored go to Page 11 Post 106 and continue to about Page 16 midway through when the North Korean tank issue(s) of the day were discussed back in March 2011.

Those were the days!?! We also had a similar "road wheel" discussion as well for the NK "PO" tank plus more.

We also had a resident expert in MARCELLO we at times crossed
:fight: however, through a couple of PM's I can assure you we both had a mutual respect for each other's work and it was much appreciated by us both.

So, to MARCELLO wherever you are I'm raising a glass to you
:cheers: to say your missed but not forgotten.

See I can be nice maybe once in awhile.!?! :D

It's late so have a good night.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I went to check one of my sites I use and across something concerning the
Israeli PEREH based on the refs. below it would suggest the following...
ISRAEL/CHANGE/PEREH/UNIT 690/END/DEC 2017/VICE/DEC 2025//
We've known for some time now they've been using other platforms NLOS operations and given those Magach 5 tank chassis came into service using our UNIT 025 START DATE JAN 1978 END DEC 1993 they would've been in operational service for 39 years. They had to have become a "logistical nightmare" to maintain. That's probably why the Israelis "declassified" them in I believe it was DEC 2015.
https://weaponsystems.net/system/79-Pereh
https://tankandafvnews.com/2017/02/23/idf-retires-pereh-missile-carrier-tank/

Also, CHALLENGER 3 has a confirmed impressive record.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/challenger-3-british-tank-hits-targets-at-unprecedented-3-mile-range/ar-BB1o283K?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=4129e63787c6433788a63ef9aa4c25d6&ei=7

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

using our UNIT 025 START DATE JAN 1978 END DEC 1993 they would've been in operational service for [B]39 years


Pat....... I do actually check what you post and when you write stuff like this I wonder what OOB's you are looking at as the Israeli unit 25 in the master OOBs DOES NOT have those in / out service dates...... not even close so in cases like this IDK if you are posting in the middle of the night and read things wrong or these are the dates you think we should have for unit 25


There are FIVE Mag'ach Blazers used by various formations and unitclasses for those formations and the earliest date is 1/79 and the latest is 12/93 so we are in "agreement" about the end date but a year different for the start but the point of this post is that is not what you are saying unit 25 is and it's not

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Sorry, as I still had it up and staring me in the face with fashionable "Blue" highlight UNIT 024 Mag'ach 5 which was used for the

My Lt. made me take day last Thur. now my Dr. has me taking off the next 3 days until Fri.

Seems since the Union (Our Health and some benefits.) decided mid-March that ALL retired military transitioning to MEDICARE A & B and TRICARE For Life (TFL) at 65 can't drop the Health Ins. as it doesn't meet MEDICARE requirements. In short, they are wrong, and my Congressman and Senator are currently working the U.S. Dept. of Justice (DOJ) & Labor (DOL) and Military agencies based on my research etc. etc.

3-4 times week after work until 4-5am turning going to work with only 1.5 weekends off since this started.

Now the payment is due a few days of rest is in order and yes it was worth it because this likely affects 100's of us in the near to long term (Within 10 years). In my shift alone out of 10 guards we have 2 veterans and 7 retired.

They pissed off the wrong person and metaphorically speaking I hope they "choke" on all the .mil/.gov, 10 U.S.C Chapters 55 & 56 Sec. 1078 and 32 Title Sec. 199 and 199.8 yeah it got that far.

This should serve as a warning to some, make sure you can drop your Health plan before going on TLF.

In a VERY UNSARCASTIC MANNER, now you know what's been keeping me up at night.

Anyway, thank you letting me vent and allowing to get this word out as we have many Retired VETs out here.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

If for only the pictures this might have some value. Also, you'll note the M1 pictures were digitally altered to protect the location.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-made-abrams-tanks-are-fighting-a-dangerous-new-kind-of-war-but-ukrainians-are-building-unusual-armor-to-help-them-survive-it/ar-BB1o2xAN?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=2e64f497b21b4e9da0b1c337087292ef&ei=19

This insane; 2330 here and I'm going to bed!?! :eek:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I can add something like that but it does tend to make things all look the same more or less and the only way around that is a more minimalist approach otherwise it's too cluttered and just looks a mess


https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17030&stc=1&d=1718210855
or
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17031&stc=1&d=1718212034


The article does say this is more common and I did find other photos but HOW common is the question

https://www.twz.com/uploads/2024/05/24/Cope-cage-M1.jpg?auto=webp&optimize=high&quality=70&width=1440


There does seem to be a few photos but all of the same tank


The other issue is these cages are there to stop the type of drone attacks the game does not cover currently. We could treat them like the other cage armour and give them a top HEAT protection of 35 I suppose but the game is not set up to handle drone operators dropping hand-grenades in open hatches

Nice to see the reactive armour we guessed would be applied was....

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Yeah, the article did say it was meant to give some degree of protection against FPV drones.

The Icons look really good.

The "Doc" called, and the labs came back "negative" for any internal organ damage. Though they also showed I was still slightly dehydrated.

The long hours, stress over the last couple of months on top of the job wearing that "heavy T-shirt" under my BDU blouse ain't helping any in this weather.

So, a Body Armour (Hydration drink) x 5 bottles of water just for work All day before prep, before work prep (Hydration.) and it caused me to lose 1 sick day last week and 3 this week. :doh:

Bottom line as the "Doc" says they're seeing more of this in the last couple of years. I got an "A" for what I do however, as she explained to me it goes beyond monitoring your urine color.

I felt a little off and that was that until last Sunday when I lost all control because it elevated my Glucose levels.

I'll just end with I ABSOULUTLY had no idea how much fluid the Bladder can hold when it hit wherever I was at I literally watched myself dehydrate.

And I got an "A" can't imagine what a "B" would look like, I guess I'd be in the Bathroom ALL DAY. :eek:

DRINK MORE & MORE. The good news here is we're already on pace to make it 3 in a row as the hottest Summer in the S.E. and the World.

I'm so glad to be a part of all that however I only have 2 workdays this week ending with my 7.5 miles on Sat. I'm so thrilled!! :rolleyes:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, the last of the former USMC M1A1 FEP tanks are on those railroad cars heading into Norfolk, Va. and should be already crossing the Atlantic to Poland.

Those and also the export version of the M1A2 SEPv3 we built last year.

As Poland is in pretty good financial shape, I wonder if they'll be adding an APS system on them in the near future.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/poland-receives-last-of-116-m1a1fep-tanks-in-major-defense-upgrade

Well back to it later this afternoon!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Australia: Again tanks are rolling to an embarkation port (Norfolk as I don't think they'll trans-ship these across the U.S. by rail.) this time it's the M1A2 SEP V3 with this first batch numbering 27 Units which is 4 shy of the 31 M1A1 tanks they operate now.

IOC is to occur in 2025, I feel since their new trainers are already on the way home if not there already. If so and with the years they've been operating the ABRAMS and knowing some of the training simulators are in country (Remember I do get their official Army Times "paper".), I feel the "swag" in this case for ONLY the reasons just stated I feel a START JAN 2025 would again in this case be warranted.

If Australia does transfer the M1A1 to the Ukraine, it'll have no game impact.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/m1a2-abrams-tanks-shipped-to-australia-eyes-on-ukraine/ar-BB1oKdgY?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d8f650be15dc4124a5f75828b3f91571&ei=10

Again, glad we prepped all those export tanks last time around and updated some others that the Ukraine got. I like it when the "RL/RW" SUPPORTS THE WORK WE DO HERE.

Please tell me we not planning in putting these into the game. I can see the AI buying these (Well not mine it's smarter than that-I hope!) that'd be a waste of resources. The second ref. says it was a drone that took it out in the first place. :doh:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-captures-russian-barn-tank-modified-against-drone-threat/ar-BB1oF2cA?ocid=BingNewsSerp
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russian-turtle-tank-seized-relic-turned-transport-on-ukraine-front/ar-BB1oIVoz?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

If Australia does transfer the M1A1 to the Ukraine, it'll have no game impact.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...b3f91571&ei=10

OK......... so the number of M1A1's sent does not completely deplete the ones Australia already had then ?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

To get you a quick response, I don't think the M1A1 tanks are going anywhere until Australia receives all their M1A2 SEP V3 Export versions.

The Ukraine issue is all just supposition and after the Ukraine blow them off concerning their offer to get the current attack helicopters several months back, I don't see the Aussies in being in any hurry to offer up the M1A1's anytime soon and if they do it'll be 2+ years before that happens.

I'm still sticking by my START recommendation for the M1A2 SEP V3 Export after further complementation again, for the reasons given in my last post.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just because we won't see it doesn't mean it's not newsworthy in the direction Heavy Armor is taking itself.

Now in its 7th year of development, the EMBT ADT140 is starting to move along in fact next month it'll be one the range to test the main gun 140mm in all aspects from stationary to on the move firing exercises.

Weapons: ADT 140mm (NEXTAR), 30mm, 20mm & 7.62mm.

Technology: Auto Turret/LOADER, APS, AI (Similar to Israeli MERKAVA 5 BARAK), CYBER, HYBRID ENERGY TECH.

It is as the article suggests it is a "Beast".
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/german-beast-world-s-most-powerful-tank-packs-triple-threat-firepower/ar-BB1oVn8y?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=25be74d5740f42a1b013e028e0db19c8&ei=9

As I'm to hit the 65 Friday, CINCLANTHOME decided I should give myself a 4-day weekend-and so it is. :D

Sometime during I'm looking to provide the latest on the status of tanks such as LeClerc XLR, Panther and AMBRAMS 5.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Dion]

140mm, is that going to be the norm for heavy tanks in the "not to distant" future?

Oh, FASTBOAT TOUGH happy 65 on Friday, June 28th.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Probably the way things are going. What will be interesting is how will Russia and China respond. For Russia well let's just say they've sort of gone down this road already.

It was designated the "BLACK EAGLE" which 1 PROTOTYPE was testing a 152mm Main Gun.

You won't have to search really hard to get info on it just click on "First" on the page listing for this Thread. The "BLACK EAGLE" was my first tank posted in here.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

We are on the verge of seeing one of the arguably greatest periods in the history of tank evolution. I would say at least going back to the development of the LEOPARD 2, ABRAMS M1A2, CHALLENGER 2 and LeClerc. Possibly even further to LEOPARD and ABRAMS etc. for their time.

It is indeed rare when so many advances are coming together at the same time. I'm talking about weapons, defensive systems, ammo, FCS, Hybrid Powerplants, AI, Unmanned Turrets, C4, BSM and more.

Just in weapons 120mm that can reach out almost 8km w/appropriate ammo.
130/140mm with over the horizon capability. Loitering munitions, who needs a 7.62 or 12.5mm when you can have some combination with either a 20 or 30mm? And you'd rather and as you'll see, forget that previous "mix" and both the 20mm and 30mm and I believe one will still have a coax 7.63mm. And as noted the ammo. I will have a surprise at the end where I'll provide such information which will keep the 120mm relevant I would estimate for the next 15-20yrs.

I've scrapped a couple of the tanks from below since those and the rest because WE WILL NOT see them.

South Korea: Starting here because it would be considered a light to lower end Med. "tank" based on armor package it's equipped with. I recently posted on this system and while checking back on it the following recent posts below had just "popped up" I speak of
Clouded Leopard II. It is currently in the D2 stage of PROTOTYPE testing. Due to design changes the D3 Prototypes won't be in production until 2025 with the validation of the type not completed until the end of 2025. So that would make early production models of the Clouded Leopard II appear until sometime later in 2026.
A couple of points the 105mm looks very similar to the Japanese TYPE 16 MCV for one and the following from the ref.
"...Hunter-Killer capability similar to that of the M1A2T tanks acquired from the United States, ..."
The above further explained...
"NCSIST Engineering Deputy Director Colonel Lin Yan-Guang confirmed that the vehicle has a Hunter-Killer capability similar to the M1A2T tanks acquired from the U.S. This feature allows simultaneous engagement and continuous target acquisition. The M1A2 and M1A1 differ in that the older M1A1 requires the commander and gunner to view the same target, allowing the commander to resume searching only after engagement. In contrast, the M1A2 permits the commander to continue searching for new targets while the gunner engages the identified target."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/taiwan-unveils-a-new-105mm-8x8-tank-destroyer-based-on-the-future-clouded-leopard-ii-vehicle

U.S.: Another Lgt. to Med. tank the M 10 BOOKER has started operational testing. This tank has a "shot" to possibly make it by mid 2025 maybe. But it is limited by the opening statement and the following: "This initial delivery comprises four production vehicles and four production retrofit vehicles, which have been modified from their original XM10 configurations." That's a long way from filling out several regiments or Brigades as has been the custom of the USA when it comes to armor. And from ref. 2 "Testing at Fort Liberty, North Carolina, will focus on making sure the platform is baseline operational, Major General Glenn Dean, programme executive officer for Ground Combat Systems, told reporters on the sidelines of an army live-fire and commemoration event. Training for soldiers will focus on logistics and new maintenance after the unit receives the vehicles in July, Captain Rachel Ledbetter, company commander of the M10 Booker test detachment, 82nd Airborne Division, told Janes on 18 April."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/us-army-begins-operational-testing-of-new-m10-booker-fire-support-combat-vehicle-at-ft-liberty
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/land/operational-testing-for-m10-booker-planned-for-july

France: This will lead off the Heavy Armor portion. I speck of the Leclerc Evolution and is armed with the ...ASCALON 120 mm cannon, a cutting-edge weapon system designed to deliver unparalleled firepower and precision." as I noted above, also it has the following, "A standout feature of the Leclerc Evolution is its ARX 30 secondary weapon, specifically designed for counter-UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) warfare.". And finally, it also has the Escamotable loitering munition launch platform as pictured.
The issue here is it's very early in the developmental stage and then there is this..."The Leclerc Evolution will likely be shunned by the French army.
Tanks are not a priority for the Army today, and for good reason. According to the French army itself, tanks are not currently a priority for them. Indeed, as part of the 2024-2030 Military Programming Law (LPM), it must carry out numerous programs, which will be difficult to fully finance. These include the deployment of the Griffon, Serval, and Jaguar vehicles from the SCORPION program, the design and ordering of the VBAE to replace the VBL, the acquisition of 109 Caesar MkII that must form the backbone of French artillery, as well as the modernization of the Tiger attack helicopters and the introduction of the H-160M Guépard for the Light Aviation of the Army (ALAT)." And like the French we won't see it.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/future-of-main-battle-tanks-episode-2-at-eurosatory-knds-unveils-sixth-generation-leclerc-evolution-mbt

Germany: At one time I felt and posted that the following first 2 tanks might have had a chance, but the 2nd fell off for me about a year ago and I thought until more recently the 1st still had at least a small chance of getting in.

LEOPARD 2A8 everyone wants one and a couple of contracts have been signed from outside Germany notably Hungry. This tank was meant to be a stop gap and the last of the "traditional" LEOPARD A2 series. Germany has ordered 105 (Remember this number as you read the below.) of these tanks. However again with most of these tanks we won't see it because of the following..."The purchase of the Leopard 2A8 tanks is expected to be carried out under a contract with the defense equipment manufacturer KNDS, and delivery is scheduled for between 2027 and 2030. However, 70 units are to be delivered during the last two years of the contract."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/germany-will-buy-hundred-of-leopard-to-equip-foreign-based-brigade

KF-51 PANTHER: Well they have I believe they have 2 Concept Demonstrators and this tank isn't going anywhere soon because the factory to build it doesn't even exist except on paper. And it'll be located not where you would expect it to be..."On March 4, 2023, the German newspaper website "Spiegel" published that the German company Rheinmetall is negotiating the construction of a tank factory in Ukraine with an investment of €200 million to build the new KF51 Panther Main Battle Tank (MBT)."
https://armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/main-battle-tanks/main-battle-tanks/kf51-panther-mbt-main-battle-tank-germany-technical-data-fact-sheet#top

KF-51U And so it continues there is 1 Concept Demonstrator here we up gun... "This smoothbore gun, designated as the 130mm/L51, offers superior firepower and lethality compared to the existing 120mm L55/L55A1 cannons. The increased caliber allows for higher muzzle energy and greater destructive capability, which translates into a 50% longer effective kill range. This makes the 130mm gun particularly effective against advanced protective systems employed by contemporary armored threats."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/future-of-main-battle-tanks-episode-1-at-eurosatory-germanys-rheinmetall-kf-51u-cut-with-130mm-cannon

LEOPARD 2 A-RC 3.0: From KNDS Germany, a tank intended to serve as a transitional Main Battle Tank before the Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) becomes operational in the late 2030s. It will have the same 130mm as the PANTHER and also can be retrofitted to fit the 140mm. It will also feature an ATGW system similar in design to the BRADLEY that will have a missile capable of both LOS and NLOS attacks. However again, "Looking ahead, KNDS Deutschland aims to showcase a fully operational demonstrator of the Leopard 2 A-RC 3.0 by 2026, refining its chassis design based on feedback from potential users such as the German armed forces (Bundeswehr)."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/future-of-main-battle-tanks-episode-4-at-eurosatory-knds-deutschlands-new-leopard-2-a-rc-3-0

I believe Germany might be trying to reach too far with all these variants when you include the fact that they just opened a plant in the Ukraine to repair their German tanks and other armor. In Germany they are still using a plant to get those LEOPARD 1A5 tanks of which they (Ukraine) will be getting more of as the number has increased slightly for what was planned a couple of years ago. They'll figure it out I'm sure, however, I feel a couple of the "near" new tanks will slip by a year or two in the process.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/future-of-main-battle-tanks-episode-4-at-eurosatory-knds-deutschlands-new-leopard-2-a-rc-3-0

UK: I've posted on this tank extensively to date, however like the lead 2 German tanks, I've stopped playing with the numbers for now as the situation hasn't changed from my last posts. I speak of the CHALLENGER 3. Unlike the AJAX which we're not hearing anything about and won't make it in, the CHALLENGER 3 Program is so far moving along and gotten ahead in some areas of development which is why I was hoping that at least there was a shot in 2026 to get it entered in the game in the latter half of 2025. It will not happen what've posted recently in the last few months and now shows no change in the IOC and FOC dates.
Ref. 1 "Initial operating capability is expected in 2027, while full operating capability is scheduled to be reached in 2030."
https://www.army-technology.com/features/analysis-how-good-is-challenger-3-the-british-armys-new-main-battle-tank/?cf-view

Ref. 2 "The work was carried out under an £800M contract which was awarded to RBSL in 2021 to deliver 148 upgraded, fully digitalised battle tanks to the British Army from 2027."
https://www.army.mod.uk/news-and-events/news/2023/02/challenger-3-hits-milestone-ahead-of-schedule/

Ref. 3 This last is as current as you can get. Click on "TRIALS" under "PROGRAMME UPDATES" for the following... "It is currently forecasted that the trials will be completed and the SQR will be reached during 2026.

The Initial Operating Capability is forecasted to be in 2027. All 148 Challenger 3's are planned to be in service by the end of 2030."
https://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/challenger-3/

It's a bleak picture but it seems like it falls on me to present this information at time times and I've invested sometime in at least 4 of the above tanks as I kept my "fingers-crossed" at least a couple would make it.

So "Viva La France! Because we will get one right now and since it's quiet out there, it looks like maybe I got a "leg up" on this one-maybe!?!

FRANCE/ADD/Leclerc XLR/COPY/Leclerc S2 AZUR/UNIT 034/CHANGE/START JAN 2024/SPEED 23/TI/GSR 60/AMMO 22 RDS/STEEL/HF 75/TF 90/HEAT/HF 125/HS 50/HR 40/TF 175/TR 40. // First the French don't work like other armies they do extensive testing and get the equipment out to the first unit when enough vehicles will fully fit out that combat unit. The GRIFFON is a perfect example of this process. Alright by the numbers START based on fact the first 18 operational tanks were assigned to the 501st Combat Tank Regiment (501 RCC, Régiment de Chars de Combat) and arrived in the latter part of 2023, I simply allowed for some Training and Maintenace which I feel is reasonable. Reduced SPEED by 1 to allow for the fact that this is the heaviest of the Leclerc tanks designed, this is due to the fact this tank is just shy of 5.5 tons added due to the armor improvements which was the reason for the STEEL and HEAT values. The AMMO reduction was caused by the fact they removed the armored Ammo magazine area by the Driver to increase crew safety.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2023/knds-delivers-first-new-leclerc-xlr-tank-to-french-army
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/futur-of-main-battle-tanks-episode-3-at-eurosatory-frances-knds-leclerc-xlr
(Describes the MG as the CN 120-26 also it's equipped with the new HE M3M explosive rounds further enhances its versatility, providing impact, delay, and airburst functions.)
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/nexter-munitions-unveils-new-apfsds-round
(This round is now available. Ref from 2021.)
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/weapons/update-france-orders-sights-for-leclerc-upgrade
(Current tank sights.)
https://armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/main-battle-tanks/main-battle-tanks/leclerc-scorpion-xlr-mbt-main-battle-tank-technical-data-sheet-specifications-pictures-video-10704171
(Updated Data Sheet from last May.)

JAPAN: We had some discussion out here, now it is official.
JAPAN/CHANGE/TYPE 74/UNITS 019 & 027/END JUN 2024/VICE/DEC 2025. //
The ref. says it all however I left the two engineer types alone as the article focused on "Combat" vice "Support" for engineering units.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/land/japan-decommissions-type-74-tanks

If there is any time to address Romania's TR-85 M1R just got the first good data from JANE's concerning the upgrades that have been speculated on from sources and reported by me for this tank over the last couple of years or more. Information is from May 2024.

Poop!! it's late and back to work later today.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Another video Re Leclerc Evolution

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h68ZlMCiz48

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

For many years I've talked about the problems plaguing the ARMATA and the one I touched on the most was the engine.

Not until more recently did I become aware of the one of the main reasons for the issues the Russian were having problems with the engines and the article goes into, they decided to build the tank around the engine. To sure there are still other factors involved even now. One of those is I felt was the engine was rushed into production and not fully tested.

Long gone are the days of tank engines just providing propulsion and basic electrical needs.

You build a tank based all the main and subsystems to include your mechanical requirements auto loaders and such to include propulsion and power generation. The engine will also power all your electronics and cooling systems etc. in short everything that makes up the modern tank.

Once every aspect from the above and more have been finalized this is when the designers should be looking at engines they already have, are independently being developed and finally do we have to build an engine from scratch for the tank.

Engines and Transmissions have killed or severely delayed many tanks over the years such as ARJUN at over 30yrs in development though in fairness during part of its development some of the engine technology just wasn't available at the time

The ALTAY is another for almost 10 years now which will put its game availability in jeopardy much like the ARMATA. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/pulled-service-russias-t-14-armata-tank-nightmare-no-joke-anymore-210006

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I came across an article a couple of nights ago about a handful of issues concerning TAIWAN and its current tank situation. One tank I thought was in error of being in, however, this is why I do things the way I do, I research the topic regardless of what I might think my initial thoughts are on the matter. For that particular tank I will say the START would be impossible due to the refs I have and will have to be adjusted a minimum of 1.5 yrs. to the right.

For the next we couldn't have picked a better START for that tank unless we had access to a "crystal ball".

There will be finally new updates again to the M-60A3 which I feel they'll have enough of for a START of JAN 2025.

The last concerns the CM-12 I have thus far only found 1 source saying about 40 of these tanks were also updated with a 120mm and supporting systems much like what happened to the same number of M-60A3 tanks. The first ref. will get the ball rolling...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/taiwan-modernizes-old-m60a3-with-new-barrel-while-waiting-for-m1-mbt
(July 4, 2024)

1. M1A2T UNIT 025: As some might remember we built this tank a year or two ago to address the export versions for this and other tanks that were built and submitted in last year's Patch. we had some discussion on this because this wasn't the first time TAIWAN, and the ABRAMS were used in the same breath going back at least 15yrs. So from the article...
"The United States has sold 108 M1 tanks to Taiwan. Currently, about 40 tanks have left the factory. The first batch of 38 tanks will be delivered to Taiwan in the fourth quarter of this year. (2 are the HERCULES Recovery versions.) " Since the source was undoubtably from the DOD, we just entered the 4th Qtr. on the JUL 1 (JUL.-SEP.) of the 2024 Fiscal Year. So, the START is good unless you wish to make it OCT. TAIWAN has been waiting for about 5yrs. now since they bought them when I posted on the matter. They've been training in the U.S. starting around 3yrs. ago if memory serves.
They are certainly ready to fully operate the 1st batch and I would suspect the next when it arrives in latter 2025.

2. M-60TAIWAN-P UNIT 026: When I saw this tank in the OOB I just wasn't so sure about it. But I looked into it, and I found some "stuff" I it however the refs just don't support the current START. This tank is a complete RESET a real term I haven't used since maybe I submitted the M1A1 FEP and a couple of other ABRAMS during that "Rabbit Hole DEBACLE" (Don was really happy with me on that, though about 3/4 of that were game legacy issues.). Given this refs date of March 17, 2022, you see my issue. So... "Upgraded tanks are expected to be redelivered in batches by October 2025. " Allowing for retooling and completely doing a FULL RESET; I really can't see more than 10 -15 tanks any earlier than START OCT. 2023 out of the 40 to be RESET. Conservatively speaking JAN. 2024. Also increase the SPEED based on the fact these also should have received the 1200HP engines the below are getting, replacing the original 750HP engines.
https://www.asianmilitaryreview.com/2022/03/taiwans-impending-tank-boost/
(March 17, 2022/Reliable used in the past for OPLOT-T etc.)

M-60A3: Less the 40 above this leaves TAIWAN with 420 (Refs are saying 460) operational units. They will ALL be upgraded and RESET. Completion date is set for 2028.

TAIWAN/ADD/M-60A3M (OR "TM")/COPY/M-60TAIWAN-P*/AS FOLLOWS/START JAN 2025/SPEED/BASED ON 1200HP ENGINE VICE 750HP/EW 4*/RADIO 92/TI/GSR 40*/MG 105 M68 84/FC 50*/STABILISER 6*/REACTIVE*/HF 15/TF 15/TOP 15. // I also used M-60A3 UNIT 023 as these are M-60A3 tanks getting RESET. There is NO reason (Written or otherwise.) that these aren't getting the same systems and if you do a good read of the refs for this RESET they are the same exact ones the M-60TAIWAN-P had done on them less the armor upgrade. ERA is mine which I feel is a reasonable designer prerogative and likely to occur anyway. Also, half the fleet are getting are brand new 105mm tubes.
https://www.defencetoday.com/land/land-platforms/taiwan-to-upgrade-m60a3-main-battle-tanks/
(March 17, 2023)
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/5897003
(June 29, 2024)
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/taiwan-modernizes-old-m60a3-with-new-barrel-while-waiting-for-m1-mbt
(July 4, 2024)

CM-12: I'd feel better if the tank in the picture showed a 120mm, but it looks like a 105mm to me.
https://militaryview.com/taiwan-cm-12-main-battle-tank-a-formidable-force/

Finally, while doing the RESET M-60A3 I discovered we don't have a M-60A3 in service unless I missed it. I don't know if we need to add a new one based on newer ammo. Also, I don't know if they had the 105mm guns upgraded as we have the last one in service ending in 1997. Since the all the refs I've come across didn't mention a 105mm grade I think it safe it didn't happen. An ammo upgrade however is more likely with the TTS in service. So...
TAIWAN/CHANGE/M-60A3/UNIT 021/END TO DEC 2025 VICE DEC 1997. //
OR
TAIWAN/ADD/M-60A3/COPY/M-60A3 UNIT 021/START UNKNOWN/END DEC 2025/ADD NEW 105mm AMMO TYPE. // START based on when new ammo was available. This might still necessitate an end date change for UNIT 021 when the newer 105mm ammo was in use.

Also, TAIWAN (U.S.?) will this tank transporter this is the upgraded version AND is the ONLY one that can transport an M1A2 whatever. The previous version was found in Iraq to have issues with the M1A1 as those tanks were up armored during the conflict.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=u.s.+army+tank+transport+trailers&mid=499EF472D7E658C277A7499EF472D7E658C277A7&FORM=VIRE
(In very beginning I believe it showed a 90 Ton Load capacity.)

Picture from JANES during USA Op testing.
17039

My Dad while in Germany before we moved Stateside was attached to the 97th Tank Transport Division and was awarded a certificate for being made an official member of "The Royal Order of Dragooners" while stationed at Rommel's "Panzer Kasserine" just outside of Stuttgart (W.) Germany.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, this will be the easiest tank I didn't have to build because in a manner of speaking, it's already in the game about where I would've wanted the numbers to be in particular as it regards the FCS. So, Don THANK YOU!!! This tank goes back to last week as posted before the TAIWAN issue came up.

The next 2 involves Turkey 1. Is a unit I intended to delete several years ago because Turkey decided to pursue the ALTAY Program which is still delayed pending further investigation. And depending on the outcome of that investigation and due to, many years' worth of delays, Turkey has already announced the "NEW" ALTAY will be improved from the version we thought they would, and we have currently in the game. I'm sure some high-ranking Turkish Officers are kicking themselves in the :deadhorse: that they didn't pursue the one up for DELETION. They would've had about 200 of them or more by now.:doh: :doh: Also, they have not put this up for an Export sale as well, but Germany probably would've stopped it like they did the powerplant and transmissions for the ALTAY that set that program back at least 8 -10 years.

The other I let slip though I posted on it several times from the start like ALTAY etc. and that's the KAPLAN Light/Med. tank which was a joint venture with Indonesia and more recently put into service by the Philippines with one other Asian country now or in the near future, thinking Vietnam but, have to check.

On KAPLAN my thinking is a simple "Vanilla" tank for all current operators. Don if you want it just say the word. My thinking is further to use the BRADLEY and one of a couple of others to give me a baseline to work with on the armor side to maybe include the VT-4. The rest is easy but not as easy as the next...

ROMANIA/CHANGE/T-85M2 BIZONUL/UNIT 017/RENAME/T-85M1R/CHANGE/START JAN 2025 vice JAN 2012/EW 2/TI/GSR 45. // There is no data on an "M2" in these current refs. it is possible it was something they planned to do and probably for financial reasons didn't proceed. I feel that with both the EW & TI/GSR increases along with the rest make this tank for its size "competitive" against its contemporaries currently out there.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights/defence-news/land/bsda-2024-umb-unveils-tr-85-m1r-mbt
https://en.topwar.ru/244101-rumynija-moderniziruet-tanki-tr-85.html

TURKEY/DELETE/LEOPARD 2T/UNIT 039. // As noted above, I posted on this tank when it was displayed as a PROTOTYPE of which they 2 MAYBE 4 of. Why? Well again to pursue the ALTAY until a change in leadership in Turkey along with the "crackdowns" that occurred shortly after the elections which further lead to some very public "human rights violations" made things to "politically hot" for Germany and Austria at home to continue supporting and supplying Turkey on further development for the ALTAY at a very critical and costly time in its early development. For the financial reasons this all imposed it forced Turkey to abandon any hope on further development of the LEOPARD 2T. The FIX was both the M60T UNIT 616 & M60T LAHAT UNIT 617 which we worked on.

Seeing those dates makes me wonder how many tanks we worked on together over the years?

Also...
INDIA: They have found a solution to their tank problems in the mountains of the lower Himalayas of which the T-72 tanks they are operating are having a difficult time in doing as China is running around with their VT-4 (Close enough.) tanks in the same area. On paper it looks good, and they finally have the indigenous tank business figured out with both ARJUN and ARJUN Mk 1 fully in operation.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/india-unveils-indigenous-light-tank-zorawar-amid-ongoing-clashes-with-china

Final note: On the Taiwanese M-60A3M (TM?) as submitted last night, I forgot to post this to "drive home" the numbers which also support those of the M-60TAIWAN-P from both refs of last night the following..."Additionally, the commander will have an independent targeting system, which will enable direct observation and firing to conduct effective strikes." This was the first capability to be accomplished that in modern terms truly defined the term of "Hunter Killer" capability. This was the difference between the M1A1 and M1A2 ABRAMS initially.

I'll be off tomorrow as I have an appointment in JAX Fl. mid-morning.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I've spent some hours now "chasing a ghost" called the Turkish KAPLAN sort of.

1. Turkey does not have or operate the KAPLAN 105mm tank.

2. Turkey does have and operate the KAPLAN ATGM tank which I found about 1.5 hrs. ago along with the missile it's using which is a fire and forget and also can be used as Direct Fire (Lgt. Armor) OR Top Attack (Hvy. Armor) modes.

3. Indonesia does have and just recently declared FOC of the KAPLAN 105mm because COVID delayed production and set back deliveries by +2 yrs. It looks really good.

All my refs. are lined up now, no thanks to "BOooo!!" who's no "Casper the friendly Ghost"! :D

When I saw the second ref. I remember reading about the situation and even posted on it regarding a change in manufacturers plus COVID delays again didn't help the ALTAY. Each number will align with its Turkish ref., and it was "female dog" of a search to get this much as far as a reliable source is concerned. Also you'll need to use your translator function, mine Win 10 current EDGE browser.

1. How Many? The 2 original ALTAY PROTOTYPES from 2013 when completed and delivered. After extensive testing they were incrementally updated to what is known now as the "NEW ALTAY".
https://www.savunmasanayist.com/bmc-yetkilileri-altay-tanki-2023te-teslim-edilecek/

2. It seems that last month they just started production of the new ALTAY. These tanks are highly technical in nature, if we use a similar timeline to ABRAMS, we are looking at almost at something around 16 months before the first tank rolls off the assembly line. With postproduction factory testing before the army gets them, along with the Armies own testing to IOC and FOC, WITH NO DELAYS, I'm thinking just over +2.5yrs at least until FOC.
https://www.trtworld.com/turkiye/turkiyes-defence-industry-starts-mass-producing-of-altay-battle-tanks-18167627

I guess we can "push it back" again for about the 4th time to JUN 2025 and track it. I'll be in no hurry to update it anytime this year for sure as design changes can occur again.

Back to the KAPLAN I'm done at this point. At least the ref. search is fully done and finished. As I start back tomorrow hoping I can get this to you by next Mon. or Tue. if this works for you.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Quick "?" using WORD 2013 hyperlinks on for refs. been a long while since used; will those refs open alright in here?

Turkish KAPLAN-ATV-DONE

Indonesian HARIMAU-85%+ running down ERA & ATGW OMTAS & UMTAS (As equipped for above.) the COCKERILL CT-CV 105mm HP was built to fire an ATGM since introduced in 2021. Turkey has already successfully tested both and presented it in either IDEF 2023/or 2024. Seeing if I can find verification of purchase by Indonesia

Something else at 50% will be improved upon from existing same class vehicle and is fielded.

All I can say is Life, Family and Work. Including one day of SELF indulgence with back-to-back EURO and COPA Cups. :D

Otherwise doing my best.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Patch Post 2024/2025 Campaign


The KAPLAN (TURKEY FNSS) and HIRAMAU (INDONESIA PINDAD) both meaning “TIGER” is a jointly developed project between both of the above-mentioned countries. It also represents the only tank exported to another country by Turkey. I’m submitting the following at the STANAG 5 level of protection which is Level 5: Kinetic Energy Threat: 25 mm APDS-T (M791) or TLB 073 at 500 meters with 1258 m/s (frontal arc to centerline: ±30°, elevation 0°). Artillery: 155 mm High Explosive at 25 meters.

It is also to be noted that the following are built on the same chassis, I bring this up because when you look at the KAPLAN-ATV and HIRAMAU I personally felt something seemed “different” for whatever reason. Yes, I checked against myself, and all is good.

TURKEY/ADD/KAPLAN-ATV/START/JUN 2020/END/DEC 2025/CREW 4/SWIM/FULLY AMPHIB/EW 0/RADIO 90/TI/GSR 60/WEAPONS/UMTAS ATGW/2 READY/12 STORED/RNG. 0.5km – 8km (<30S)/PHA UP TO 1200mm/AA ALT. UP TO 4km/WARHEAD/Tandem High-Explosive Anti-Tank Blast Fragmentation/ RS TURRET COAX 7.62mm /LASER RF 22/STABILISER 5/SURVIBILITY 5/ V-HULL (MINE)/STEEL 12/8/5/3/2/2/5/HEAT 14/10/5/0/0/0/5/ERA 8/6/0/0/0/0/5/ROF 2 READY/SMOKE DISCHARGERS 2 REAR MOUNTED BANKS.// While in the initial testing phase the KAPLAN-ATV system was using the OMTAS Med. Rng. ATGW (Ref. below) which is being used on the recently available PARS 4x4, PARS and Man Portable Launchers. The warhead is of a different configuration with a PHA of 1000mm at ½ the Max. Rng. of the UMTAS which was completing land launch testing before the KAPLAN-ATV went into production. Some refs provided simply to provide for a better look at the unit. Also, the first 6 were delivered in March 2020.
https://militaryleak.com/2020/03/26/turkish-army-receives-six-fnss-kaplan-tracked-anti-tank-vehicles/
https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/fnss-ramp-up-serial-production-of-kaplan-atv-3916
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2020/fnss-from-turkey-delivers-26-kaplan-umtas-anti-tank-tracked-armored-vehicles-to-turkish-army
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2023/roketsan-from-turkiye-launches-serial-production-of-umtas-gm-anti-tank-missile#:~:text=Turkish%20company%20Roketsan%20sta rts%20production%20of%20a%20new,its%20serial%20pro duction%20by%20the%20end%20of%202023.
https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/products/arct-anti-tank-remote-controlled-turret/arct-anti-tank-remote-controlled-turret-photos
https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/1628389732_omtas.pdf
https://www.roketsan.com.tr/uploads/docs/kataloglar/ENG/1628724062_umtas-en.pdf

The issues are obvious from the refs. Each of the above missiles are in the field currently as these missiles are replacing their TOW and MILAN across all weapon systems. We would need 1 Man Portable for each missile, 1 PARS 4x4, 1 PARS with the OMTAS (2017 on.) and 1 PARS with the UMTAS (2020) . Also, in my search I came across the T-129 UNITS 621-623 and was wondering if the UMTAS missiles they have match the 1200mm armor penetration from the refs? Also, the T-129 ATAK can carry 12 UMTAS or 8 with 8 AA missiles (Look like STINGERS in the pod.) as the top picture of the ref. shows below.
https://www.army-technology.com/projects/umtas-long-range-anti-tank-missile-system/?cf-view

INDONESIA/ADD/HARIMAU (TIGER)/START/MAR 2024/END/DEC 2025/CREW 3/SPEED 78km/h/ EW 0/RADIO 90/TI/GSR 60/WEAPONS/105mm HP/16 IN AUTO LOADER-12 AIR TRANSPORTABLE/XX STORED/ROF X/COAX 7.62mm/PINNACLE 12.5mm/TESTED SAT FOR BOTH OMTAS/UMTAS ATGMS/NOT PURCHASED/LASER RF 22/STABILISER 5/or 6/SURVIBILITY 5/ V-HULL/STEEL/12/8/5/14/7/7/5/HEAT/14/10/5/16/8/8/5/SMOKE DISCHARGERS 2x4 TURRET MOUNTED 1 EACH SIDE.// Let's deal with the stored 105 ammo issue some refs are indicating more rounds are stored however, not many are, or a couple say the ammo loadout is “classified”. Sixteen does seem low and if I had to take guess, I would say it could carry somewhere between 6-10 rounds of 105mm stored based on the size of the tank. That’s just my “best guess”, that’ll be a call for you to make. To the rest it has full “Hunter Killer” capability. D/R/I to identify a target in daylight at 5km/Night at 3.5km/70 hexes. I can see it coming so; D/R/I Detect/Recognize/Identify. There is no optional equipment with the Indonesian versions so it has Shot Detection System (SDS) (Some might call it Sniper Detection) and Laser Warning System (LWS). I don’t see the PULAT APS on the Indonesian tanks, but it is available. A note on PULAT they seem to have made the modules much smaller from when they were first mounted primarily on their M-60 tanks in Syria. You’ll find it in the last ref. look for it forward of and between "Cockerill" (Turret) and "TANK" on the hull.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/asia-pacific/turkish-made-tanks-inducted-into-indonesian-military/3174912
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2024/first-fnss-kaplan-mt-harimau-medium-tanks-enter-service-with-indonesian-army
https://johncockerill.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/23606.jc-defense-3105-specsheet-a4h-en-hd.pdf
https://www.armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/weapons/turret/ctcv-cmi-defence-belgium-uk
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/01/ride-turkish-tiger-indonesias-kaplan-mt.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/main-battle-tanks/light-tanks/kaplan-mt-mmwt-fnss#details
https://www.fnss.com.tr/en/products/kaplan-mt
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2023/idef-2023-fnss-presents-the-kaplan-mt-medium-tank-with-aselsan-pulat-aps?highlight=WyJrYXBsYW4iLCJ0YW5rIl0=

Used mostly the following UNIT as a reference due to approximate size and weight (Others were also considered for comparative purposes in the build of the above.) USA/UNIT 306/M2A3+ Bradley. //.

Hell I’ll “roll the dice” on the other and get this to you in a few minutes.

I will be out until early evening as CINCLANTHOME and the daughter have invited me to see to lunch, movie and some shopping. Besides she sees enough of the movies I want to see so “fair-is-fair”.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Getting this again while trying to edit my last post-"Access Denied - Sucuri Website Firewall" my Bitdefender has been notifying me of suspicious activity on this site for a while as well.

Anyway, for the HIRAMAU the ROF is 6-8 rounds and it can engage aerial targets up to 55 degrees of elevation with the Rifled 105mm HP.

Hyperlinks don't cross over; it was good that I kept my refs.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Just FYI when the MBT patch is released the end dates are now 12/2030......

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

First of all, AWESOME news!!

As I indicated on my MBT "2025 Deathwatch" post, I had started work on about 3 of those tanks plus one not on the list the Italian ARETE in which Italy decided to update now fully through the Phase 1-3 options as presented a few months back in this thread as you might remember.

I don't know what prompted you to post this information but, to be honest, you prevented the fairly imminent destruction of my notes on those tanks. I'm truly relieved that the time spent didn't "go down the shedder" with my notes.

As some know, just because I don't post doesn't mean I'm idle because there's always something to do out here and someone lets me do it most times at my own pace until we get to crunch time.

So, Andy & Don thanks again for the wonderful news!

Now to my last "submission", I've tried several times to update the END dates to 2030 and I get the below every time I hit the "Save Changes" button. This has only happened when I execute that "command" if you will. Also, this has been intermittent issue but somewhat fairly common over the last few months. You might remember I had brought this issue up awhile back as well.

"Access Denied - Sucuri Website Firewall
If you are the site owner (or you manage this site), please whitelist your IP or if you think this block is an error, please open a support ticket and make sure to include the block details (displayed in the box below), so we can assist you in troubleshooting the issue.

Block details:
Your IP: XXXXXXXXXX (mE)
URL: forum.shrapnelgames.com/editpost.php?do=updatepost&p=856629
Your Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/127.0.0.0 Safari/537.36 Edg/127.0.0.0
Block ID: EXPVH11
Block reason: Exploit attempt denied by virtual hardening.
Time: 2024-07-29 21:29:30
Server ID: 14007"

Alright just let me add "down" the shedder. Still logged in unlike this morning when I was logged out since last night and logging in this morning.

Hope to back in here later tonight I have been cleaning out some of "folders" of items going back 3-4 years of which I think haven't been acted on even external to myself. We'll see.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

Welcome Back T-80, we missed you!

https://i.imgur.com/bdLlcn6.jpeg

:p

Gas Turbine Engine, Kontakt ERA, 120>mm gun. :p

[DRG]

That's no T80 that's an Abrams under all that ERA:D

Ukraine M1A1SA of the 47th brigade fighting alone in the open field

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlwHNKz2Plo

That tank has 7 road wheels....... T-80 has 6


EDIT

I would like to see a clearer, close up photo of this vehicle because in that shot and the others I have seen that outer layer of "ERA" on the turret looks like brick...... Its probably not brick but it sure looks like it in that photo above

Supplement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puL0L4j2RHo

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I thought I had saved the next but was wrong. Besides the ERA they also mounted about a 2" to 3" steel armor if you will "table" on the top of the turret. You can more easily see it around the panoramic site. You should be able to blow the picture up within the article.
"The turret is now encased with Explosive Reactive Armor (ERA) and additional armor plates mounted on the turret roof. This setup, notably, does not include the large wire cage armor, which can compromise the tank's combat capabilities."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/ukrainian-soldiers-enhance-us-m1a1-abrams-tanks-with-advanced-armor-and-anti-drone-solutions

Should also answer your "Block" question as well.

Gotta go to work early to have a shower before "I go to work".

Debby was a "Bxxxh" we pumped 500 gals of gray water from the walk-in shower 5 gals at a time over 10 hours on Monday.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

That's no T80 that's an Abrams under all that ERA:D

Sorry for the meme post; I was trying to be funny; the joke is the Abrams is now the T-80:


Gas Turbine Engine
120>mm Gun
Kontakt ERA on every possible surface.
Introduced 1980s


:p

[DRG]

Russia lost its 100th T-90M tank in Ukraine as massive leaks exposed Russian weaknesses.

https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/russia-lost-its-100th-t-90m-tank-in-ukraine-as-massive-leaks-exposed-russian-weaknesses

[DRG]

The Ukrainian M1a1 SA's are TUSK+ equivalent for ERA now

[MarkSheppard]

Some shots of current AFU T-64BV series tanks from the current Kursk offensive showing nicely a current production version of a cope cage.

https://i.imgur.com/XOst342.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/3w4OCy4.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/bZr7pcJ.jpeg

[whdonnelly]

Doesn't look much bigger than Scimitar


https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/1ert5zz/m10_booker_inside_a_c17/

[DRG]

A number of ??? spring to mind

1/Is that a steel mesh net ? It may or may not be but if you are just trying to stop a drone, they may not need anything more than something to catch and tangle it up no matter how fast it comes in........ ATGM is a whole different problem/solution but thinking even a medium-sized drone would tangle in that netting and it's a LOT less restrictive

[DRG]

The only way to make cages work at game scale is to keep the frame,
1/ simple--anything too complex looks like a lump when reduced down to scale
2/ the cage needs to much lighter than the turret to allow contrast between the cage detail and turret detail
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17045&stc=1&d=1723747326

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

And the "winner" is the Challenger 2 as the first Western tank to operate on Russian soil during combat operations as part of the KURSK Operations.

Reports are indicating they have lost 2 of the 14 they have during those operations.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/ukrainian-forces-deploy-british-donated-challenger-2-tanks-in-first-ever-offensive-on-russian-soil

The situation must really "gall" the Russians that a foreign invader is running around the site of the largest tank battle ever fought (6,000+ tanks and slightly over 2 million troops.) and arguably one of Russia's greatest victories on land. So far, the Ukrainians have captured an area of around 1,000 sq. miles. Yesterday or day before they took out a major bridge in the area to restrict a Russian response from that immediate area.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/ukrainian-breakthrough-in-russia-current-situation-overview
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/exclusive-video-ukrainian-armed-forces-have-released-images-of-firsts-hours-of-kursks-offensive
https://www.militarytimes.com/veterans/military-history/2018/07/05/the-largest-tank-battle-in-history-began-75-years-ago-today-heres-how-it-changed-wwii/
(And people wonder why we kill spies.)

Very nicely done on the ICON, "KISS" usually is best suited for things like that. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Reports are indicating they have lost 2 of the 14 they have during those operations.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/ukrainian-forces-deploy-british-donated-challenger-2-tanks-in-first-ever-offensive-on-russian-soil

The photo in that article was interesting

https://www.armyrecognition.com/templates/yootheme/cache/a5/Ukrainian_Forces_Deploy_British-Donated_Challenger_2_Tanks_in_First-Ever_Offensive_on_Russian_Soil_925_001-a583f61b.webp

This relates back to the discussion about new the North Korean tank and how it looked like sheet metal

Note the turret "detail" of the Chally in the foreground....it has the same "sheet metal" look to it

[DRG]

Some shots of current AFU T-64BV series tanks from the current Kursk offensive showing nicely a current production version of a cope cage.

https://i.imgur.com/XOst342.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/3w4OCy4.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/bZr7pcJ.jpeg


Wondering if there is significance to the different ways the Triagular markings on the tank hulls are applied...... one is flat topped the other pointed top.

It could be as simple as the stencils were issued without instructions OR these are from two different units and how that marking was applied shows that..... That said there are photos with the marking applied both ways and that could be just happenstance or deliberate......

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It appears that the "White Triangle" is simply a means to identify Ukrainian mobile units to avoid friendly fire incidents in this fast-moving offensive.

The "White Triangle" first appeared in June used by the Operational Command West group of forces stationed near the border with Belarus.

Some want to make this an issue in response to the Russian "Z" and or "dub" this incursion/invasion as "Operation Triangle" I'm more a realist so I believe in "SAFETY FIRST"! :D
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/ukraine-s-answer-to-russia-s-z-how-white-triangle-invasion-stunned-putin/ar-AA1oFGXT
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/1-subtle-symbol-coming-define-130226762.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADfBqjvkCHx_6UCeqfEPWVI_tKU9 kyWjdnhQRvXllPoZn64JSOtUWQ_uxlA6lT94OVIGhwVZCyaM-AMBs8LpYp1LRv1JaCAVg5ZsBtSN4MI9ENhoqkAkg1IqSKyCkgT WaSzFlyAlIAzlYlvnJgsTQR5XN_9ESggacX6NPutdQIXz
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crkm08rv5m0o
("The armoured convoys are sporting white triangular insignias, seemingly to distinguish them from hardware used within Ukraine itself. Meanwhile, aerial photos have appeared to show Ukrainian tanks engaged in combat inside Russia.")

Interesting about the Challenger 2 I'm wondering if there using the same 2"-3" steel armor plating I noted was mounted as a "tabletop" on the top of the ABRAMS turret in my post on the matter. See Post 1829 if you want.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that's what they did, you're right they added the same steel armor plate all around the turret.

The near tank you can clearly see the weld marks around the edges on the turret. Also, you can see they didn't quite align the "plates" evenly on the left side of the turret.

On the far tank the weld marks (Or scars if you will.) look cleaner and you can see a "white mark" at the bottom of the joint between the plates also on the left side. This could simply mean it wasn't properly painted over.

Since the page flipped see the previous about the "White Triangle".

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Masters]

REMOVED by DRG

military watch magazine has all the credibility of Signal

Stick to pointing out missing units or weapons.

IGNORE THAT WARNING AND THE REACTION WILL BE SWIFT

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Delays for the remaining 98 K2 tanks to Poland and looking like at this time Poland will not be building them possibly.
"It was also noted that the vehicles would be produced in Korea, although the Minister of Defence wanted some of them to be produced in Poland. The article in “Rz” also mentioned that “plans for the manufacturing of these tanks in Poland are in question” and that funding for the second executive contract has not yet been secured."
https://defence24.com/industry/whats-going-on-with-the-k2-tank-deal-armament-agency-speaks-up?utm_source=newsletter%20&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=defencecom&__ca__chat=tbtl2wsjbhyq
https://milmag.pl/en/another-batch-of-k2gf-tanks-is-on-its-way-to-poland-this-year/

Just another indication of a supplier saying "What's ours, stays ours. "

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

.........and the supplier isn't just a few hours by train away.

[Oche]

Leopard 1 with ERA upgrade in Ukraine:

https://defence-blog.com/ukraine-showcases-upgraded-leopard-1-tank/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFYI8dleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHem_P2hStLG4 lksahTcee0gZ_8j016-mu7e7cjKqiMPtQI2cXPLgSmjAxg_aem_cUGzgc163Zd7x8EvqY T4xw

[DRG]

Thanks

If anyone find other photos of these UKR mods post the link please
Thanks

https://i.imgur.com/QrUwFUU.png

[DRG]

Ah!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0N4A9yjQGk

[DRG]

Also........not there yet but.......that turret does hang out over the side quite a bit almost like the Canadian C2

https://doogsmodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/takom-leopard-c2-15-of-16.jpg?w=2000&h=


https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2023/discover-option-of-leopard-1-tank-upgrade-for-ukraine-fitted-with-new-cockerill-105mm-turret

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

On short notice:
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/protected_beyond_recognition_ukrainian_armed_force s_showcase_and_describe_the_leopard_1_photos_and_v ideo-11876.html

Even before the war started there were "rumors" that production of the following was quietly going to be moved outside of Ukraine. Those rumors have in the past year started to gain more traction.

Also, before the war I had posted that the USA had bought 3 units of this tank for test and evaluation purposes.

There were doubters and it took a little time to convince the "Boss" but he (And others. :)) know I'm a "deep miner" in my searches of reliable and verifiable references.

We built it, I noticed in game play against its peers it wasn't performing as it should've, so I asked for volunteers to test it against the T-72BM (B3/4 initially.) and I think we might've done the same against the T-90. A very strong handful of players stepped up (THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!!) The data was analyzed and presented to Don, and we made better from the testing and data as in the game now. That process is in this thread, and some might find it interesting to look at.

The problem was where was the tank since the war began? The best I was able to find out was it possibly was being used for the defense of the capital.

Well, I know where it is now, also it looks like at the turret has been modified especially in how the gun is mounted to it, but I don't like the angle of the picture as shown in the article to make the "hard call" on that at this time.
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and_tech/the_t_84_oplot_tank_makes_debut_in_defense_of_khar kiv_region_photo-11665.html :cool:

While I'm at it...
https://en.defence-ua.com/industries/rheinmetall_reveals_its_plan_to_boost_the_leopard_ 2a4_mbts_capabilities_with_the_kf51_turret_what_is _happening_with_the_panther_tank-11763.html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

That last top down ( sort of.....) photo in the article is very helpful

https://en.defence-ua.com/media/contentimages/04466e85c0600fd1.jpg

As is this comment


Ukrainian tankers mentioned two main advantages of the Leopard 1 tank. Specifically, they highlighted its fire control system with a night sight, which allows effective operation at a distance of up to 4 kilometers during nighttime. This range is greater than what Russian tanks can detect, especially considering that many Russian tanks are equipped with either the 1PN96 or even older Soviet-era sights instead of the more advanced Sosna-U.


I think the icon we are using for UKR 713 is close it just needs a bit more embellishment

https://i.imgur.com/l0M7fZQ.png

Further refinement....... there will likely be another before it goes into the game

https://i.imgur.com/Xi1pofq.png


I have also increased all 1a5's to FC 40 from 35

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

No Time!

Take the following as it stands. Expect to hear something from the Army concerning what will be our game-built ABRAMS SEP 3 export tanks COMING ONLINE.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/australia-plans-to-transfer-its-decommissioned-abrams-tanks-to-ukraine/ar-AA1qVeLv?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=7f08eeb11c464a0e8da837ef90e3ea80&ei=15#

TGIF!! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/Trotes936897/status/1835698422248272257

Leopard 1A5DK and Leopard 1A5DK1 in Ukraine with Kontact ERA armor and rolled up cope cage netting.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A little something about our favorite Russian tank and they have only 20 of them of which the threshold was much higher for the OPLOT-M to "join the club"...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2024/british-mod-intelligence-confirms-entry-of-latest-generation-russian-t-14-armata-tanks-into-service
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/t-14-armata-russias-tank-nightmare-just-wont-end-210628

And there are so many more and how many years ago did I bring up the engine issue? You don't build tanks around the engine! :doh: :doh:!!

This next will show this similar situation existed with a couple of German WWII tanks.
https://tankandafvnews.com/2015/11/13/from-the-vault-post-war-british-report-on-panther-reliability/

But Russia did build an improved T-90M and fielded it a year ago or so as posted.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The Dutch have signed a contract to field a Battalion of LEOPARD 2A8 (46 Units) with an option for another 6 units.
" Allies are expected take delivery of the first new Leopard 2A8 battle tanks rolling off reactivated KNDS production lines end-2025, the state secretary said. " probably closer to early 2026 as Germany will also be getting these tanks.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/dutch-to-buy-tanks-for-more-than-1-billion-add-kongsberg-air-defense/ar-AA1sjaty?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=987107e4a8454eefbe9029bdedb84db5&ei=6

I would hope in the meantime the Netherlands will have in the OOB the LEOPARD 2A6M2 as posted this past February in Page 176/Post 1751 with the following NEW End 2030 or until fully equipped with the LEOPARD 2A8.

Germany is treaty bound (And other documents.) to release those tanks to the Netherlands for defense of their country. Those tanks are assigned to the joint German and Dutch armored unit 414 Tank Battalion (German: Panzerbataillon 414; Dutch: 414 Tankbataljon. currently.

Been suggesting it from the start when they were getting rid of their tanks, I'm glad the Netherlands didn't let me down. Well Don to with the new games END Date!! ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I would hope in the meantime the Netherlands will have in the OOB the LEOPARD 2A6M2 as posted this past February in Page 176/Post 1751 with the following NEW End 2030 or until fully equipped with the LEOPARD 2A8.

For game purposes, there is NO difference between the 2A6M and 2A6M2

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I would agree with you on that, and it would seem your response further answers my question as well as an "AFRIM" to the Dutch question.

Thanks!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat. I have no idea what this is about but that vehicle has been in the Dutch OOB for a couple of years.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
Sorry for the distraction, I obviously missed it somehow.

EDIT: 0248 Found it as Netherlands UNIT 038 LEOPARD 2A6M should not the END date be pushed right to DEC 2030?

None of the references concerning the LEOPARD 2A8 for the Netherlands are even suggesting that there will be any changes to the treaty or other signed agreements so, it would seem the LEOPARD 2A6M would still be made available to the Dutch as required for National Defense.

Just a thought is all.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Don,
Sorry for the distraction, I obviously missed it somehow.

EDIT: 0248 Found it as Netherlands UNIT 038 LEOPARD 2A6M should not the END date be pushed right to DEC 2030?

None of the references concerning the LEOPARD 2A8 for the Netherlands are even suggesting that there will be any changes to the treaty or other signed agreements so, it would seem the LEOPARD 2A6M would still be made available to the Dutch as required for National Defense.

Just a thought is all.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


Pat..... this was already done on our master OOB's for months. Any unit / formation that ended 2025 was changed to 2030 then any units that were slated for retirement between 2025 and 2030 were adjusted........... so naturally it won't show up as 2030 on anyone else's OOB's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The Russians are confirming the T-14 was Not in the Ukraine.

We ourselves debunked several videos and posts showing them driving around Ukraine.

Further and as recently posted the Ukraine has NEVER seen anywhere near a battlefield or roaming around the countryside. I seriously think they would've sent in a handful of drones to spot for a precision strike or take it out.

Let us not forget the several articles where the Russian Commanders and tank crews wanted nothing to do with them in the field going back to last year late.

For now, and in my opinion for what it's worth out here feel that T-14 at this point in time is in the same situation as when the T-95 and a couple of others within about an 8-year time span were paraded on May Day (Which is all we're really seeing for T-14 overall.)
and they never got fielded which by the way Russia has never formally announced themselves concerning the T-14.

"...the T-14 has faced production delays and manufacturing issues, making it too expensive for active combat roles."

"-Russian Defense Minister Sergey Chemezov confirmed reliance on the more cost-effective T-90 tanks instead. Initial claims by state media about T-14 deployments were debunked, suggesting the Kremlin lacks confidence in its performance against Ukraine’s Western-supplied anti-tank systems."

"-Consequently, the T-14 Armata is viewed as a failed project, unable to meet operational demands amidst heavy losses and logistical challenges."

"In March, Sergey Chemezov, who leads the Russian defense giant Rostec, confirmed prior Western intelligence assessments and our coverage here at The National Interest that the Russian military hasn’t deployed the T-14 Armata tank in Ukraine. "

This article is 2 hours old.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russia-s-t-14-armata-tank-nightmare-is-just-getting-started/ar-BB1mcU5M?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4e2a5bb1643b4f3d88fa86d9bda6ef04&ei=10

This situation would obviously affect the T-15 as well since they share a common chassis and the same engine and components.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I tend to agree and THIS (https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/pulled-service-russias-t-14-armata-tank-nightmare-no-joke-anymore-210006#:~:text=14%20ArmataTanks-,'Pulled%20from%20Service'%3A%20Russia's%20T%2D14% 20Armata%20Tank,2024%2C%20this%20target%20remains% 20unmet.) supports the idea but I'm not ready to pull it or the T-15 from the OOB yet

And note this article states "The tank's deployment in Ukraine revealed performance problems, leading to its withdrawal from frontline service."

Personally, I belive the tank never was on Ukraine soil but it was probably tested in western Russia nearby and if it was it was actually over the border it was far away from the actual front as possible

Eventually the truth will be known but what is "the first casualty of war" Pat?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The "TRUTH" YOU COULDN'T ASK SOMETHING HARDER!?! :D

I get it.

But remember I was on this tank from the start, that being said we've lost some and we got some in sometimes with a lot of patience on both our parts (ARJUN etc.) over the years.

You know how I feel about "keeping it real" that's my standard and the one you've always held me to since I joined the club.

And a couple of the things I've seen over the years from the game review "experts" is on the realism and continuous updating of the game.

I know we have the means to make these things available to the player without having it in the OOB. Which was why I brought up again the "improved" T-90M within the last handful of posts in here. It's marginally better but more importantly it's fielded and has been in combat though in limited numbers.

Also, ORNX is showing that there is a T-72B3 Obr. 2022 of which ORNX is showing that 65 have seen combat (51 destroyed/3 damaged/8 damaged and abandoned and 3 captured.)

This also includes 163 unknown types of T-72 tanks of which
127 destroyed (So for the Obr. 2022 the numbers might be slightly higher.).

As a note if ORNX can't identify the specific model of equipment this is the category they go into.

When I submitted the tank as you might remember I did so as "hybrid" of what was to be the T-72B3/Obr. 2014 & Obr. 2016 the changes were incremental between models, but it didn't make sense to submit 3 tanks separately especially as the OOB is so tight. Again, the tank in the game NOW was submitted with ALL the improvements added. Another reason for doing this was the very short timeline between the three types noted above.

I have to look into this further (T-72B3 Obr. 2022) to see if we need to add this tank or not. I believe what I submitted was around 2019 give or take a year or two.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright so here's where we're at, our "hybrid" tank is in the Russian OOB as UNIT 697 T-72B3M (I had originally submitted it as the T-72B3/B4 similar to the ref. below showing it as the T-72B3M/T-72B4.

To be clear ours was built to the specs of the first ref. and others when submitted.

Our tank checks out fine and as some might remember we play tested it against the OPLOT-M 3-4 years back which led to the OPLOT-M being modified based on the testing and the numerous references that accompanied the posts throughout supporting the need to make those changes that were not available when first submitted.

The only thing is if we have the correct main gun which is...
"The main armament of the T72B3M / T-72B4 consists of one 2A46M5 125-mm smoothbore gun which is a modernized variant of the standard 2A46M cannon, also known as the D-81TM. This gun system features reduced recoil and a stabilized gun mount. The 2A46M-5 variant was introduced in March 2012 as part of the upgraded T-90MS tank. The 2A46M5 gun design made it possible to reduce the technical dispersion of shells of all types by 15% in average and to increase the effective range of fire. "
https://www.armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/main-battle-tanks/main-battle-tanks/t-72b3m-t-72b4-main-battle-tank-technical-data-sheet-specifications-pictures-video-12003163
(This ref. is dated from 7 AUG. 2024.)

"T-72B3M Model 2022: This version appears in December 2022. It is fitted with a new dynamic protection system around the hull. The turret is fitted with a new ERA armor and the lower part is equipped with an RPG metal net." THIS IS ALSO FROM THE ABOVE REF.

So, this all means it is equipped with the same linked hanging chain covering the back and backsides of the turret same as on the T-90M against RPGs.

You'll also note the top of the turret has added a little more Kontakt-1 (See photo on lower left of the ref. below.).

I personally see no added value in this tank game wise (Or RL.) based on what are only minor at best improvements.

None of these T-72 variants have addressed the main issue of this model which is a poorly designed ammo storage area causing what's being called the "Jack in the Box" effect.

I hope the reader will continue reading about T-72B1 Obr. 2022 (or 2023) tanks and from MANY other sources that are saying the same about this tank to include the more recent delivered (Within the last year or two.) T-80BVM and others. Those are shown (T-72B1 Obr. 2022 (or 2023) in the main picture of the article and upper right picture further down.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/01/28/russia-is-refitting-old-t-72-tanks-for-the-war-in-ukraine-but-its-running-out-of-optics-for-their-crews/
(Updated on 29 JAN. 2023.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I personally see no added value in this tank game wise (Or RL.) based on what are only minor at best improvements.:


Yep and things like that are why the OOB's in Russia and USA are at near capacity and we ARE working ( slowly ) on a solution to that but still........there are a lot of things added over the years that in game play make zero difference

Now in the reference you cited mentioned better stabilization but the T-72B3M is already a 5 and I don't see that it justifies being a 6

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I referenced that para for further info but, my concern about that particular main gun (2A46M5) cited is that it can shoot any of the current ammunition in the Russian stock meant for the likes of the T-14/T-90M. But that's more your side of the house.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I referenced that para for further info but, my concern about that particular main gun (2A46M5) cited is that it can shoot any of the current ammunition in the Russian stock meant for the likes of the T-14/T-90M. But that's more your side of the house.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


T-14 uses the 2A82-1M 125 mm gun the ammo is different than previous 125mm rounds and higher pressure

T-90M uses the 2A46M 125mm cannon

The T72B3M is armed with a 2A46M5 125mm

They are not the same gun......... I believe the ammo for the 2A46M and 2A46M5 is interchangeable but not the ammo for the 2A82-1M and in the game the "gun" is the ammo

EDIT
So the T-72B3M should be using W128 ( now changed) and as well the T-80BVM gets W128 ( now changed)

From Wiki for this last bit


2A46M-5: Used on T-90M, T-80BVM, and T72B3 Obr2017.
2A82-1M: Used on T-14 Armata

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/RyszardJonski/status/1848749456788730110

Lithuania purchases a battalion of Leopard 2A8 tanks and 2 battalions of CV90MkIV IFV vehicles.

The decisions were made today by the Lithuanian State Defense Council VGT /Valstybės Gynimo Taryboje/.

https://kam.lt/valstybes-gynimo-taryboje-svarbus-sprendimai-del-nacionalines-divizijos-sunkinimo-ir-lietuvos-paramos/

[MarkSheppard]

More Leopard 2A8 Sales:

https://x.com/Jeff21461/status/1850923912097382857

Croatia and Germany are signing a Letter of Intent today for Croatia to procure 50 Leopard 2A8 main battle tanks.

Part of the cost of this procurement is to be offset by the sale of 30 M84 MBT and 30 M-80 IFV to Germany, who will in turn donate them to Ukraine.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

More on Marks...
CROATIA/CHANGE/M-84/UNIT 024/START/JAN 2025/VICE/AUG 2022. // The deal for the LEOPARD 2A8 will happen. Too many articles are popping up and too many officials are talking about this. The MOU will get the ball rolling. Germany will finance this deal and credit Croatia for the tanks and APC's being given to the Ukraine. Checked with ORNX NO M-84 tanks have shown up on their list this is important since we "think" they got them in '22. In contrast the M-55S is on the list as 1 Destroyed/1 Damaged with the timeline about the same as the M-84 roughly. I believe Croatia was trying to get a different LEOPARD at the time but they were "feed" to the Ukraine. My bottom-line is simply if they had them then odds are they'd be on that list given the numbers they would've gotten which by the way happens to be the same number this deal would get them. CROATIA simply doesn't have that many of those tanks to give away as that means they would've received (& about to.) 60 of the 70 of those tanks THEY HAVE IN TOTAL.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/croatia-to-provide-ukraine-with-30-tanks-30-infantry-fighting-vehicles-in-exchange-for-german-leopard-tanks/ar-AA1t5J52?
ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=467899891a194f4c96931f63b41e4b3e&ei=16
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/croatia-and-germany-sign-letter-of-intent-for-acquisition-of-50-leopard-2a8-tanks
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html

And to save time...
UKRAINE/ADD/M-80A/COPY/CROATIA/M-80A/UNIT 539/START/JAN 2025. //Both these units are designated for delivery by the end of this year. January just feels safer. They will keep the weapons and receive ammo, spares and Maintenace support as part of the package.

Something extra...
https://defence-blog.com/russia-files-lawsuit-against-key-ammunition-maker/

Also, Australia will transfer their ABRAMS to the Ukraine however, they will not get the Helos they wanted as well. They already have started to strip them to support the world supply chain for the NH-90 copters. There is NO TIMELINE for the transfer yet, SAME for ABRAMS V3 FOC.

And Don knows my source for this info on Australia, enough said.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: Corrected on my next post.

[DRG]

More on Marks...
CROATIA/CHANGE/M-84/UNIT 024/START/JAN 2025/VICE/AUG 2022. //
:capt:

Pat......... go back and check what you meant to have written..... There is NO unit 24 in the Croatian OOB and NONE start Aug 2022

Maybe you meant ...
UKRAINE/CHANGE/M-84/UNIT 024/START/JAN 2025/VICE/AUG 2022. //

??

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Sorry...
UKRAINE/CHANGE/M-84A/UNIT 024/START/JAN 2025/VICE/AUG 2022. //Is what I meant as you noted.

This is what I get for checking things when I thought I was going to bed... :doh: Anyway...
UKRAINE/ADD/LAV 6 ISC/COPY/CANADA/LAV 6 ISC/UNIT 612/START/OCT 2024. // The article refers to the unit as the LAV 6.0 armoured combat support vehicles (ACSV) which the above should cover.

Also, I noted that Canadian UNITS 600/612 have FC 30 but UNIT 603 LARV Coyote has FC 35 with END/JUN 2019.

I would think that the LAV 6.0 being the latest model in service that UNITS 600/612 should at least match the FC of UNIT 603 at 35 as well.
https://www.army-technology.com/news/ukraine-marder-ifvs-lav-6-0-acsv/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat

What is in Ukraine is CND unit 611 not 612 and the first ten of the 50 ACVS Canada is donating will be of the ambulance variant and even 30 FC is not justified for that. ( and it's already in the UKN OOB --U312 I just need to tweak the date )

If it can be proven they have the turreted combat variant I will activate it

The coyote was a specialized scout vehicle used for battlefield reconnaissance and surveillance missions at the battle group and brigade levels.. They came in two varieties----command vehicles and surveillance vehicles

From wiki------"As of 2015–2022, the Coyote was in the midst of a planned retirement and being replaced by a mix of TAPV and LAV VI armoured vehicles . The LAV III – has replaced the Bison in many roles."

That's why it has a 2019 retirement date. If it needs adjusting I will adjust

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It looks like COYOTE and BISON are still in service at least the latest models anyway.

I did not realize the ACSVs (Armoured Combat Support Vehicles) were the replacement to the above and the Canadian Govt. decided to send them to the Ukraine which my most recent ref. in my last post was also showing. This article below dated Jan 04, 2023 it also is saying that some got there as early as Oct. 2022.
. Also appearing the ACSV Program had both setbacks and delays.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/made-in-canada-armoured-vehicles-ukraine

These next supports COYOTE further.
https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadian-army-surveillance-vehicle-project-costing-533-million-years-behind-schedule-and-facing-multiple-deficiencies
(Dated Last updated Sep 01, 2023)

Next from Canadian Govt.
https://www.canada.ca/en/army/services/equipment/vehicles/coyote.html
(Date modified: 2021-02-10)

The following seems to support immediate above but found something interesting...
"In addition, the turret front faces receive 2x4 76mm Smoke and fragmentation grenade launchers (8 reloads)." This below picture on left as "DESIGN" section continues.
https://tank-afv.com/modern/Canada/Coyote-ARV.php

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

OK, I'll extend the dates a bit but when or if this happens is just a WAG because.......

The clowns we have in Ottawa now...... well.... if I said what I wanted to say it I'll have to ban myself

I think this will pass and you can fill in the blanks

"couldn't organize a ------- in a -----house"

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I understand and I'd bet you knew my "curiosity" would "kick in" at the same time. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

Official Leopard 2A7A1 rollout event:

https://i.imgur.com/yeTOZwD.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/A36T7Z0.jpeg

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/battle_order/status/1851438353209758100/photo/1

https://i.imgur.com/LTnuN3b.jpeg

[DRG]

I have some "adjusting" to do with the German OOB.......


I also need to review the speeds used for all the Leo 2's in all the OOB;s ( fun)

The Bundeswehr website for the Leopard 2 A7V ( which is now a higher weight class than previous=63.9-ton) says

Powered by a 1,500-hp engine, the tank ploughs its way across the battlefield just like its predecessor did.

With this this in mind, the slightly decreased peak speed is acceptable. Despite its weight, the state-of-the-art Leopard can reach a theoretical maximum speed of 63 kilometres per hour.

63 kph converted to game speed = 21 NOT the 26 we have used for every 2a model except the first one.:doh:

So I will be searching for an all-in-one webpage with that info on each model so I can correct the OOB's ............if someone finds one please post the link


https://armyrecognition.com/military-products/army/main-battle-tanks/main-battle-tanks/leopard-2a8-mbt-main-battle-tank-technical-data

claims the top speed of the 2a8 is 70 kp/h that = 23 game speed so I have adjusted that and the 2a7v

EDIT

All sorted now for the German Leo 2's..... moving to everyone else who has them now

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This site still considered the best source of information on LEOPARD and a couple of the others. Some of my other sources use this site as well. I believe you might know the moderator.

Look towards the bottom of each section.
https://id3486.securedata.net/fprado/armorsite/main.html

These are very good as well to corroborate or help set an average speed overall.
http://tank-masters.de/?cat=4
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/#google_vignette

I have to go-sorry-best I can suggest for now.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

If you notice the values we use for the 2a4 and 2a6 match the range given in the Prado link

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

For the record, Prado's "Armor Site" was one of the first sites I found in the beginning for me out here.

I appreciated the depth of research it took to get his information and to my mind validated my thoughts as to how I would have to present my submissions once I decided to try going beyond just playing the game.

It laid the foundation for me to start from with a fair amount of "trial and error" you would unfortunately had/have to deal with along the way and over the years.

Simply saying we all had to have a "start point" in what we imagine are the things important to us as individuals.

More on the LEOPARD 2A7A1 first though the following...
"Therefore, the A7A1 is expected to be slightly heavier than the A8, because the Trophy system needed to be integrated into the existing turret rather than a newly designed one with additional equipment."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-unveils-leopard-2a7a1-tank-with-advanced-israeli-defense/ar-AA1tdP6I?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=37b4a429889e43c5818528f980683fec&ei=39

I've in the last couple of years or so have come to appreciate this website so I post the below as there are 3 to 4 very good articles in this particular issue from the site.
https://www.edrmagazine.eu/pdfviewer/edr-magazine-76-july-august-2024?auto_viewer=true#page=&zoom=page-fit&pagemode=none

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

LEOPARD A7A1 first to get TROPHY.

From ref.
"The German military first conducted live fire tests with Trophy in 2021, and it is now being employed on the Leopard 2A7A1 variant – which is set to enter active service next year with the Bundeswehr's 203rd Armored Battalion, the unit that is on track to be deployed to Lithuania."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/tank-shields-germany-s-leopard-2-has-received-trophy-protection-system/ar-AA1tgURt?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=486e640bab404500b30ad90c9cec2843&ei=20

Will likely end up on CHALLENGER 3 as well.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/Trotes936897/status/1853677672112501091

Excellent overhead shot of a T-90M lost in Ukraine with tons of Kontakt-1 on the roof.

[MarkSheppard]

Excellent overhead shots of "modern" T-62, T-72, T-80, T-90, T-14 taken at Kazan Higher Tank Command School.

https://x.com/MrFrantarelli/status/1853121943551062138

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/2805662/status/1854338548406878385

New official shots of Australia's M1A2 SEPv3 in Aussie camo

[DRG]

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17131&stc=1&d=1730984640

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just a couple of articles that are subjective in nature. For the first I can see the case for the Renault FT and I have to agree with the second where it has the K2 and not so much with the ARMATA due to its continued mechanical and technical issues that have been ongoing for years.

When we're getting verification of these issues from Russian industry, government and military in quotes from several sources (Russian news and defense websites even within Russia etc.) you need to simply remember "Where there is smoke there is fire."
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/renault-ft-just-might-be-best-tank-ever-208734
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/5-best-main-battle-tanks-on-earth-in-2024/ar-BB1mQPl1?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=755c794a3fa84cfaa445b14ef5393155&ei=15

As to Australia, the below supplements Marks post. As I have indicated my source for the official source will come from the Army itself. On tracking this from a couple of things I've read to this point I believe our export version of SEP V3 MIGHT reach FOC sometime between OCT- DEC 2025.

Also, the "gap" in numbers from that same source is saying the Army is going to hold back 10 of the M1 ABRAMS first to have tanks and to also use them for training platforms. The rest are still as of this time, are still to go to the Ukraine.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/australian-ministry-of-defence-unveils-first-images-of-m1a2-sepv3-abrams-in-action#google_vignette
(THE BOTTOM PARA IS MY REASON FOR MY DATES ABOVE. YOU GOT TO BUILD THEM TO HAVE THEM.)

The ICON looks GREAT! Are you going to do a dessert version?

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The ICON looks GREAT! Are you going to do a dessert version?




As far as I can tell , AUSCAM as shown in my example is standard for every environment.

If you have photos of known Australian active service desert schemes pass them on and I will build it but I am not aware there is one

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Take it off your plate as I saw your Shp. file post issue. Give me at least a couple of days to look into this thoroughly though I believe you may be right after a cursory check.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

There are photos associated with the Australian Abrams in tan that are photos of US ones but there is this one photo but one photo means nothing and it does look experimental and I have not found another but I have found references to "fishscale" and that " The Australian Army has used / uses a range of interesting camouflage patterns for its M1A1 MBTs."

https://www.ozarmour.com.au/store/images/thumbnails/600/600/detailed/3/002584-C035_1-16-Fishscale-example.png

There is also this
https://armyrecognition.com/templates/yootheme/cache/f9/Australia_to_Send_49_M1A1_Abrams_Tanks_to_Ukraine_ Breaking_News_1920_001-f9568e14.webp

But that looks like the standard camo with added tan painted on .... I could try something like that but it may just be a different view of the one above........ and there is a limit to my OCD for icon camo:D

But.......... not today it seems........

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17142&stc=1&d=1731490288

But what the hell, it's not like I'm going to be doing this forever..... here's the full series but I doubt the Aussies will be playing much in the snow<g>

The SHP file rebuild is done...... two hours of work entering then checking every icon in MOBHack and the game....... FUN (not!)

[WilliamB]

I clicked on the two forum.shrapnelgames links and got this message:

Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

[DRG]

Now corrected

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, I have a few.

The first was taken at their tank training center I would that is about 100 miles NE of Melbourne.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/541346817693425871/

That picture shown looks very familiar to me as one I posted originally when they got those tanks back in 2007.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=X%2BaJIvCs&id=C78662331EA20420717D071A499B9D694EEF9236&thid=OIP.X-aJIvCsH4Yt-T3HyHH_7wHaE9&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F af%2F9e%2Fb7%2Faf9eb71b33f54928a426feb30ad440b7.jp g&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.5fe 68922f0ac1f862df93dc7c871ffef%3Frik%3DNpLvTmmdm0ka Bw%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=1071&expw=1600&q=Jpeg+picture+of+austrailian+leopard+and+abrams+t ank&simid=608009929453345005&FORM=IRPRST&ck=F15C5D71C7AE5AB1E1967A986E1642AA&selectedIndex=108&itb=0&cw=2255&ch=1161&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

You might find the next interesting as well...
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=OQbQmkyH&id=B4ACBC91EDB27B9AC520AF4A878886C4B0E68C27&thid=OIP.OQbQmkyHkXWtdyMKhlvJJwHaFj&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.3 906d09a4c879175ad77230a865bc927%3Frik%3DJ4zmsMSGiI dKrw%26riu%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fanzacsteel.hobbyvi sta.com%252fArmoured%2BVehicles%252fImages%252fAbr ams-06.jpg%26ehk%3DhJI8yN78sxblv333vd%252ffi8IVN5P%252 fe3SDvVFOCrHzdPE%253d%26risl%3D%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r %3D0&exph=525&expw=700&q=Jpeg+picture+of+austrailian+leopard+and+abrams+t ank&simid=607999183403962624&FORM=IRPRST&ck=9CC00CF10F505E89967E2F612A5976AA&selectedIndex=0&itb=0&cw=2255&ch=1161&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=imkrhdPB&id=F1445148D2DB9C3983E3BB36CD6173CEE37CBA21&thid=OIP.imkrhdPBKD_l5C1Tj1149wHaFj&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F d1%2F8c%2Ffd%2Fd18cfd7e777dcba9e8ec4b68ca92c432.jp g&exph=480&expw=640&q=Jpeg+picture+of+austrailian+leopard+and+abrams+t ank&simid=608011278045443033&form=IRPRST&ck=9A70F9DBE9E43CE77BAAF027607296D3&selectedindex=1&itb=0&cw=2255&ch=1161&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.8a6 92b85d3c1283fe5e42d538f5d78f7%3Frik%3DIbp8485zYc02 uw%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&vt=0&sim=11

More arrive in 2008 ...
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=VLkvbjXX&id=9D418A93AC2104739AECCDC3A0254D10FF6734A9&thid=OIP.VLkvbjXXCKwC3TbQ-vcWmgHaE5&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.defencetalk.com%2Fmilit ary%2Fphotos%2Fm1a1-abrams-tank-arrival-australian-army.17314%2Ffull%3Fd%3D1514054482&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.54b 92f6e35d708ac02dd36d0faf7169a%3Frik%3DqTRn%252fxBN JaDDzQ%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=1057&expw=1600&q=austrailian+abrams+tank&simid=607987110283999478&FORM=IRPRST&ck=E21044261B2CAA55B4D18AEB78E59FEC&selectedIndex=76&itb=0&cw=2255&ch=1161&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

As I'm sure you noticed opening the above, you're seeing most of what I did.

So, here's my thought on the matter, I believe for a period of a year or two as the shipments arrived it is possible some retained our desert colors until painted to the AUSCAMO scheme. So is it worth it to have them in the U.S. desert camo, I don't feel it necessary to do so.

That being said, the many pictures of the current AUSCAMO scheme would definitely support a little more of the desert color. Maybe just slightly widening out what you already have.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

So, here's my thought on the matter, I believe for a period of a year or two as the shipments arrived it is possible some retained our desert colors until painted to the AUSCAMO scheme. So is it worth it to have them in the U.S. desert camo, I don't feel it necessary to do so.

That being said, the many pictures of the current AUSCAMO scheme would definitely support a little more of the desert color. Maybe just slightly widening out what you already have.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Two of the links I added to my previous post failed ....I have just corrected the problem but here is what you missed seeing before you posted

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17142&stc=1&d=1731490288

The ones just shipped from the States and driven off the boat don't count

The Icons above are what you will see for the Australian M1A2 SEP the final release

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

All three are perfect, because if you look at the actual pictures closely you can see clearly see the variance in the AUSCAMO you've duplicated with your ICONs.

Like I said, the U.S. camo was a non-starter for me personally. I just followed the information where it took me.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

And there will be revisions for the Australian winter and desert m1a1's as well

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17143&stc=1&d=1731518567


Alternate winter....... I favour a more " well used" look of late especially for winter icons.....no more pristine starched linen table cloth white battle tanks

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17144&stc=1&d=1731536330

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Simply the following from the source that matters:
AUSTRAILIA/ADD/ABRAMS M1A2C EXPORT/START/APR 2025. // As already built from last year. That date based on my best guess from the following quote...
"About 130 soldiers and officers learned the ins and outs of the new battle tank before the first of 75 M1A2s begin to enter service in early next year (2025-mine) with 2 Cav Regt."

Unfortunately, the page would not allow me to "cut and paste" so a little back and forth was required.

It was also reporting on the live firing testing and quals currently ongoing. Picture showed three tanks.

Paint schemes same AUSCAMO as revised so the newer Icons are good.

One of the Senior tanker's WO 1 Bernie Maus reports "...enhancements are like going from Windows 98 to the latest operating system." Also,

"After a short burst, crews can hit targets at 2500 metres every time."

I will attempt to post the page from the paper. Again, THIS IS NOT LIKE our Army Times or any of our other branch services "Times". This is directly from their Army with the other services having their own as well.
https://www.armynewspaper.defence.gov.au/army-news/november-21-2024/flipbook/10/
(IT WORKS!! THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IT HAS.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Mobhack]

One of the Senior tanker's WO 1 Bernie Maus reports

Now that's a proper name for a tanker :up::D

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Only might've been better if it was Bernie "Von" Maus!?!

Had to go back to make sure I had that right, just not what I expected but I agree, it certainly is a "proper" tankers name. :cool:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

All I will say about the next video is it reminded me of the SHERMAN vs. PANTHER or TIGER. By that I simply mean they were much more reliable, faster, maneuverable and generally outnumbered them on the battlefield. The last though probably does count for less overall concerning the video.

Enjoy!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/bradley-takes-out-russian-t-90m-in-intense-combat/vi-AA1ulwFw?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=05d33c5f95784077a3eb5e492b4aa6c1&ei=13

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I know you're very busy at this time but, was still surprised to see your POST #157 in "Ukraine OOB..." .

Though for the record I don't feel you saw the following or maybe just forgot them so again refer back to the first line above.

The first you actually did respond to concerning the T-84 in which I provided very viable FOC date for both the T-84 and M-80 APC. Your response asked if I meant it for the Ukraine instead of me posting it for Croatia.
Page 187/Posts 1869 & 1870.

On LEOPARD 2A7A1/2A8 please see Page 189/Post 1881.

From ref. 1...

"The Leopard 2A7A1 serves as a bridge until the production of the new Leopard 2A8 variant begins, with first deliveries expected by 2027. The A7A1 version was developed to incorporate the Trophy active protection system without making significant changes to the Leopard 2A7V tank's structure. "

"Therefore, the A7A1 is expected to be slightly heavier than the A8, because the Trophy system needed to be integrated into the existing turret rather than a newly designed one with additional equipment."

Both of the above statements on their own merits are suggesting there is little to no difference between the LEOPARD 2A7V and the LEOPARD 2A7A1 but TROPHY.

And you also have the following...

"Apart from that, the A7A1 variant is similar to the A8 variant, which will soon be delivered to many European countries, becoming the standard tank for NATO European nations. It's noteworthy that the purchase list includes countries such as the Czech Republic, Croatia, Lithuania, and the Netherlands."

From ref. 2...

"MAIN BATTLE TANKS-A MARKET ON THE RISE"

"Apart from that, the A7A1 variant is similar to the A8 variant, which will soon be delivered to many European countries, becoming the standard tank for NATO European nations. It's noteworthy that the purchase list includes countries such as the Czech Republic, Croatia, Lithuania, and the Netherlands."

Hungry has also expressed interest in those tanks.

We are not at this time dealing with a "Super Tank" which is why I haven't submitted either for the following...

1) Germany only recently received the first built LEOPARD 2A7A1 tank as noted above.

2) Besides the fact I've been following and posting on these tanks and others for years now, it takes time to ferret out what the differences between these tanks and the newer versions of others (LeClerc LXR which is on track to meet FOC before the others.) involved.

I do expect the LEOPARD 2A8 will have a new turret as the refs. are referring to it but, this IS NOT fully resolved yet.

I did last year (Near end I believe.) make a very through update on all the newcomers yet to come in this Thread. I believe it might lie between the above ones MAYBE I listed at the top of this page some might find it useful.

The [B]caveat is to be mindful that it was written before it was disclosed that the END is now 2030. Even with that I believe one or two might be outside that window.

Because I don't post all the time doesn't mean I'm not tracking don't forget I tracked ARJUN, ALTAY and ARMATA and a couple of others for well over a decade and a couple I'm still doing so Oh yeah, a thing called the AJAX as well. All the rest are just "more flies on the ointment"

If not sure just ask I most likely already have the information someone might want. :D :p ;)

I have issues to address, so have a good night!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

11/26 EDIT: Contracts signed M-84/M-80 APC should be in Ukraine just arrived. Date as above for should be good to allow for transitional training.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/croatia-orders-german-leopard-2a8-tanks-in-exchange-for-sending-m-84a4-tanks-to-ukraine

[DRG]

This was all dealt with a month ago so IDK why we are going over all this again

[DRG]

If anyone finds a top-down photo or blueprint of the Turkish Alpar unmanned ground vehicle please post the link

NEVERMIND.... I found a brief few frames of a video that showed it from the top


https://i.imgur.com/VUKXREB.png

Still WIP........

[DRG]

I decided the Chinese tanks (and their various export models ) were LONG overdue for a do-over

6x normal size

Still a WIP

https://i.imgur.com/imfK9XT.png

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/TaiwansDefense/status/1868011193413320873

38 M1A2T have arrived in Kaohsiung, southern Taiwan.

This is the first time Taiwan has received tanks from the U.S. since the 1990s. These tanks will be deployed in northern Taiwan.

(United Daily News)

[DRG]

I had them in the OOB for 10/2024......... close...........now adjusted

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good to know my "WHATMAKESSENSE-A-METER" still works once in a while. :D

Also...

Czech Republic: More LEOPARD 2A4 tanks on the way. This will be the 3rd batch under the "Ring Swap" trade that saw Czech T-72 tanks go to the Ukraine.
Tahttps://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/rheinmetall-confirms-order-of-leopard-2a4-tanks-from-czech-republic

France: Could the Leclerc Evolution be gaining traction again?
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/frances-uncertainty-amid-challenges-for-future-main-ground-combat-system

Taiwan: : Taking on the lessons learned in the Ukraine.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/lessons-from-ukraine-war-propel-taiwan-to-strengthen-drone-capabilities-and-anti-drone-defense

Bangladesh: Lest we forget they have tanks.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/bangladesh-modernizes-all-branches-of-its-military-to-counter-threats-from-india-and-myanmar

Germany: We knew this was coming but, with the contract just signed it doesn't look like anyone but Germany is to get it, unless they order it themselves.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/eurotrophy-secures-contract-to-increase-protection-of-123-german-leopard-2a8-tanks-with-trophy-aps

That's enough for now. :sick:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


EDIT Just felt I needed to add this. I don't believe I've seen this in such a manner as this. That WAS ONE DAM FINE SALUTE. It made me feel honored. With that said, I extend this to all of you that have served for the various countries in our community.
https://x.com/espn/status/1867983843925364808?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1867983843925364808%7Ctwgr% 5Ec2d7168ccd1b737351012e0a90d48f16b9166014%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.msn.com%2Fen-us%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2Fwatch-as-celebration-bowl-referee-salutes-military-veterans-before-making-penalty-announcement%2Far-AA1vRRJT%3Focid%3Dmsedgdhppc%3DU531cvid%3D1ca44c66 229b4238871932f2f9551783ei%3D49

[DRG]

Here is an interesting little tidbit I was not aware of until recently........it may be old news to some of you though

I was not aware of the China-Ukraine connection



During the development of Type 90-II/Al-Khalid (also known as MBT-2000) in the 1980s, the gearbox and engine were originally imported from Germany, but this plan was abandoned due to a Western arms embargo. The powertrain instead was sourced from Ukraine, the same for most Chinese export vehicles at the time.[4]

China eventually developed domestic powertrains, which led to the creation of the MBT-3000 program for export customers.

[DRG]

Still WIP ..... this is a totally different technique than I have used in the past that I am trying out for what I am calling "ChinaCamo"

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17159&stc=1&d=1734370034

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/RyszardJonski/status/1868964371352744303

The last shipment of K2GF tanks planned for this year just arrived in Poland.

This means that there are already 84 of K2GF/Black Panther tanks in Poland. The remaining 96 tanks out of 180 ordered in the first tranche will be delivered next year.

In addition to the last shipment of K2GF Black Panthers this year, the first American M1A2SEPv.3 Abrams tanks are planned to arrive to Poland before end of December.

https://defence24.pl/przemysl/swiateczna-dostawa-koreanskiego-uzbrojenia-do-polski

Thus, there are already 84 K2GF/Black Panther tanks, 136 K9A1 gun-howitzers and 72 modules for Homar-K multiple rocket launchers (of which at least 35 are ready vehicles) in Poland. In the case of artillery systems, their unloading was supposed to have already taken place on Friday. The K2GF tanks were most likely unloaded yesterday or today at night. Now the aforementioned armament will be additionally equipped (including the Fonet digital communication platform from Grupa WB) and checked before delivery to the target units of the Polish Army.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Unlike AJAX (Though it has improved some.), CHALLENGER 3 is moving along as planned.

However, as I've already posted Rheinmetall BAE Systems Land (RBSL) and the MOD's plan doesn't coincide with our Plan 2030 (As borrowed from the USMC.) though there is a chance we'll see in 2030. From the ref. exactly as quoted in my past posts out here...
"The first deliveries are scheduled for 2027, and full operational capability is expected by 2030."
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/uk-challenger-3-tank-program-advances-as-rbsl-delivers-two-more-prototypes-for-british-army-field-trials

Lithuania: Yes, I know but the point is history being made and another now confirmed "win" for Germany. The other point here there is "no timeline" not unusual in that the more foreign contracts signed the cheaper the overall cost will be to the BUNDESWEHR for their LEOPARD A2B.

Same as for the F-35A/B and South Korea selling all those K2 tanks to Poland to lower the cost of their own now that K2 PIP is DOA for almost 2 yrs. now.

Higher volume results in lower production costs across the board.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/lithuania-acquires-44-leopard-2-a8-tanks-in-historic-procurement-agreement-with-knds-germany

Vietnam: Well they're getting some tanks always a good thing with China across the border. The only real limitation I see compared to just about all Western tanks (60-degree side slope capability.) is that this model can only handle a 30–40-degree side slope capability not much of tactical advantage in the mountainous sections of Vietnam.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/army-news-2024/t-90sk-main-battle-tank-as-a-symbol-of-russian-vietnamese-cooperation-in-defense

Well, I need to get some sleep before getting behind the wheel. Going to spend Christmas week at the daughters in the Tampa area and FINISH MY ANTI-BIOTICS SAFELY AWAY FROM WORK!?! :D :fire: my Lt. after Sat. night already feels safer!! ;)

Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year-however you celebrate it.

To everyone :you: !!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Related to the above

Those units are already in the game ( Unit 33 )

https://defence-blog.com/vietnam-receives-first-russian-made-t-90s-tanks/

Vietnam receives first Russian-made T-90S tanks----Jan 2, 2019

I have adjusted the start date to June from October........not that it really matters much

What is interesting is a sidebar to that link is.........

China places massive order for kamikaze drones - Dec 22, 2024

https://defence-blog.com/china-places-massive-order-for-kamikaze-drones/

A Chinese drone manufacturer has disclosed a massive government order for almost a million lightweight kamikaze drones, to be delivered by 2026.

[Dion]

A million in only one year? Sounds like their preparing for war. With the extreme population they have, they might be capable of making a billion in a fraction of time it would take most other countries. Woe to anyone that pisses them off.

Or as Conan would say "crom"!

[MarkSheppard]

https://x.com/ColbyBadhwar/status/1871235289051742268

The US State Department has approved a possible Foreign Military Sale to Egypt, of M1A1 Abrams Tank Refurbishment, Support, and Equipment for the conversion of 555 M1A1s into M1A1SA configuration, for an estimated cost of $4.69 billion.

"Egypt is the only country in the world, other than the United States, that produces the M1A1 Abrams. The Egyptian Refurbishment Program will significantly contribute to the flow of M1A1 components and parts from the United States, creating economies of scale and reducing overall unit price of scarce M1A1 parts for the Department of Defense and other US security partners."

The prime contractor would be
@GD_LandSystems
. "Refurbishment and upgrade will take place at the Egyptian Tank Plant, Cairo, Egypt."

[DRG]

Drones are the "New Normal" for combat operations.
The Genie is out of the bottle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4uaKynSRx4

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

About Egypt our spec built export M1A1 as I remember was as good or a little better than “SA” minus the DU armor. If they just got the approval to go ahead that means these tanks are about 1.5yrs. down the road as I posted a couple of plus years ago or longer on the U.S. RESET production timeline.

A million drones for Taiwan and fair number for Russia for humanitarian purposes!?! :rolleyes:

China is on the clock 2025-2027 he doesn’t care who’s sitting the Whitehouse.

He wants the “chips” though Taiwan suppositly has rigged their production facilities for destruction if he tries to invade. Also Taiwan is building facilities outside of the country should the worst case scenario happen, might be here don’t remember at this time where I read it. Taiwan is the worlds leading producer of chips certainly of the high end ones.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I have a “sense” that maybe my last on the importance of Taiwan as the dominate chip maker in the world was sounding like “There he goes again about “economics” and the military and or war.

Simply put the U.S. sees the above issue as having a direct impact on our strategic interests.

Arizona is where the new plant is being built as we speak. Also Intel is also building a plant now which should start full production within the year.

Some thought really should be given to the fact where our DOD is getting our advanced chips from and how China getting their hands on it would affect not only our defense but most of Europes as well.

Here’s the reality check…
https://researchcentre.trtworld.com/featured/taiwans-chip-dilemma-navigating-the-threat-of-invasion-and-the-strain-of-diversification/
There are plenty more on the web about this. The above from Oct. 2024.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Everything is interconnected and everything is important and computer chips are critical

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I think some of us realized this day would come and I knew when it was captured where it was going much like we know (Or should.) that 2 of the captured T-90M are being "scrutinized" in the U.S. and the other somewhere near the Polish border for NATO to have a look.

Our loss will have much less to no impact for us, as much as the T-90M has much more serious impact on Russia.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/conflicts-in-the-world/russia-ukraine-war-2022/breaking-news-russia-to-start-reverse-engineering-on-us-supplied-m1a1-abrams-tank-captured-in-ukraine

As I've stated several times on the matter no country is going to send another country any piece of combat equipment "with all the bells and whistles" unless they are directly involved in the conflict themselves such as Russia is now.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Blazing 88's]

Interesting....
Ukrainian forces craft 'Frankenstein' tank from Russian wrecks
The Ukrainian armed forces have ingeniously assembled a tank from parts of destroyed Russian machines, aptly naming it "Frankenstein." The first images of this creation have surfaced online. In the face of the aggressor's superior equipment, such initiatives become invaluable. Despite these efforts, Russia continues to hold the initiative on the front lines.

The Ukrainian armed forces have demonstrated outstanding creativity by assembling a tank from components salvaged from destroyed Russian machines. The vehicle, known as "Frankenstein," exemplifies the innovation and adaptability of Ukrainians confronting enemy superiority.

This tank, commanded by the 12th Azov Special Purpose Brigade, is made up of various components. The turret and gun are sourced from a Russian T-90M, while the hull is fortified with dynamic armour and side shields resembling those of the T-80BVM....
Read more
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/ukrainian-forces-craft-frankenstein-tank-from-russian-wrecks/ar-AA1wXz57?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=eafa5c9966e04a368b23d87845ae3e59&ei=57

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, they finally got there on Jan. 18th ...
"Breaking News: Poland Receives First 28 US M1A2 SEP V3 Tanks Bolstering Europe's Tank Superpower Status."

There are somethings that'll need to get done but this and other sites I use will let us know when they get fielded (FOC). I think we have them set for FOC this Summer/Fall I believe.

This article is full of good info to include the current status of all types of MBTs currently in service. I hope you'll take the time to read it and maybe clear up and "mystery" on their tank situation both currently and in the foreseeable future.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/breaking-news-poland-receives-first-28-us-m1a2-sep-v3-tanks-bolstering-europes-tank-superpower-status

The following was intended for another thread until I watched it all the way through. As some might remember my "Marine Buddy" of which I'm PROUD to say has me listed as one of a couple of her friends on her page and Suhiir on mine, hashed out and settled the USMC M1A1 FEP issue as professionals do and made the appropriate changes.

However, as these things go, sometimes some might still have doubts and if this video doesn't convince you well just maybe you might need some "blue light" glasses. :dk:

Based on the fact the ACV is in the video, that pushes the timeline out to the end of the CORPS time with tanks.

I will "point" you to the turret and the ones who tracked the issue overtime will notice something is not there as was thought.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/testing-us-marines-brand-new-amphibious-combat-vehicles-for-the-first-time/vi-AA1wf7B2?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=d1eaf905084c4203881a09d1e84076d9&ei=17

Also provides a good understanding of what's involved with an Amphibious Operation.

I've kept all my PM's from Suhiir (And John "IMP" also.) as they both were there when I first started out here and encouraged, pushed and made suggestions how to produce a "better product" and also importantly how to build a "partnership" with Don.

I still look at those messages from time to time when things are tough for the reasons noted above and more.

They say "You can never go back. " but nothing says that...

"You can't look back to get clarity in the present and perspective in dealing with the future."

You should always remember those that impacted your life for the good and bad as long as you learned from the experience to change what you need to or stay the course.

Alan J. Metzer MMCS/SS March 1982 in Williamsburg, Va. my Navy Recruiter. And there you have it. You decide where he stands.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Well, they finally got there on Jan. 18th ...
"Breaking News: Poland Receives First 28 US M1A2 SEP V3 Tanks Bolstering Europe's Tank Superpower Status."

There are somethings that'll need to get done but this and other sites I use will let us know when they get fielded (FOC). I think we have them set for FOC this Summer/Fall I believe.

Pat

It would be so much nicer to get info on exactly which unit in which OOB we are being given info on.
My life and motivation would be so much better as I already have more to do than I have time in inclination to do as it is and mer wondering do I have this in the OOB or should I have put it into the OOB does not increase my enthusiasm as much as knowing for sure the first time through if we are discussing a unit already in the OOB or one that need to be added WITHOUT GUESSING

The ONLY M1A2 in the Polish OOB is unit 007....... is that the "FOC" unit you are referring to that should be set up for in service Summer/Fall of 2025 or is there another M1A2 that should be in the OOB?

I **THINK** we are discussing Polish unit 007 if yes that should have been in the lead sentence

I DO appreciate all the info you provide but sometimes it's like wading chest-deep through a swamp to find it...... maybe that's my problem but I'm the one maintaining these OOB's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

POLAND/M1A2P/UNIT 007/CHANGE/START/OCT 2025. // Change is needed due to 1st delivery just made on 18 JAN. I would think the new START will be close enough to allow for acceptance trails, maintenance and training. The more conservative side says JAN. 2026 but the Polish armed services professionalism is far improved from where it was even ~15 years ago. We'll see. Again...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/breaking-news-poland-receives-first-28-us-m1a2-sep-v3-tanks-bolstering-europes-tank-superpower-status

Forgot we did "letter" tags for the export version the M1A2 SEP 3.

USA: The M1A3 Abrams, referred to as the M1E3 has started industry/military trials as discussed in the next. This tank was decided upon when the USA in SEP. 2023 cancelled the M1A2D/M1A2 SEP 4.

The M1A3 will be the beneficiary of both the M1A2D and the AbramsX technology demonstrator. One of the key elements it will be fully equipped to counter BOTH drones and loitering munitions amongst other improvements.

It also discusses the state of European tank development and confirms what I thought concerning CHALLENGER 3 (UK MOD better get going on this if we're to see this tank. No change to the MOD IOC (2025) and the FOC late 2030.) Franco-German Main Ground Combat System (MGCS) is designed to replace the Leopard 2 and Leclerc tanks by the mid-2030s.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/focus-what-the-us-made-m1a3-abrams-teaches-us-about-the-future-of-main-battle-tanks

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

LEOPARD 1A5's on the attack equipped with "Tanks are often fitted with jammers to reduce the effectiveness of conventional FPV drones (excluding fiber-optic models)".
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukrainian-tank-tactics-old-leopards-charge-in-donetsk-duel/ar-AA1xIAbo?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=bb6e8dd729d44f5e8e7f9068a797ff72&ei=51

Really gotta go now!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I'm posting this for two reasons.

One it backs up the upgrades we did for this tank and I'm not at all surprised by its battlefield "exploits" in the RL.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/swedish-gold-tanks-ukraine-s-ace-in-armored-warfare/ar-AA1xTU6m?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=cc2ad53a385a4a949924dcecf260ad5f&ei=72

Two I don't think that MAYBE except by increasing the Stridsvagn 122 tanks "EW" that there is another option to make something like the following work or not. I speak of the SAAB BARRACUDA Camo System that's on the Swedish armor already for about a year now. It is generally considered the best system out there and I believe (Though it needs further research on my part.) the USA is testing it.

Even if this turns out to be only for "GP" it's worth posting just to see where this technology is currently.

Having some experience in like systems it's meant to defeat, I have to be honest and say I'm impressed by all I saw from the following website. That "TI" section "almost" reminded me of when near the end of "PREDATOR" when the Alien was hunting for "Arnie" in the scene where he had covered himself with mud (Which really works just in case you need it!) ;) in the final battle sequence.

Certain people here know it takes a lot for me to feel that way about equipment issues. This is Top 3 for me.

To hide something like a tank with those results is a significant battlefield advantage at least in the "RL"

Again, if for no other reason, I hope some of you find this of some interest anyway.
https://www.saab.com/products/mcs-mobile-camouflage-system

Awesome!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Off topic a bit but if anyone can find what the Dutch are using for SPATGM vehicles now I need to know

[DRG]

I'm posting this for two reasons.

One it backs up the upgrades we did for this tank and I'm not at all surprised by its battlefield "exploits" in the RL.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/swedish-gold-tanks-ukraine-s-ace-in-armored-warfare/ar-AA1xTU6m?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=cc2ad53a385a4a949924dcecf260ad5f&ei=72

Two I don't think that MAYBE except by increasing the Stridsvagn 122 tanks "EW" that there is another option to make something like the following work or not. I speak of the SAAB BARRACUDA Camo System that's on the Swedish armor already for about a year now. It is generally considered the best system out there and I believe (Though it needs further research on my part.) the USA is testing it.

Even if this turns out to be only for "GP" it's worth posting just to see where this technology is currently.

Having some experience in like systems it's meant to defeat, I have to be honest and say I'm impressed by all I saw from the following website. That "TI" section "almost" reminded me of when near the end of "PREDATOR" when the Alien was hunting for "Arnie" in the scene where he had covered himself with mud (Which really works just in case you need it!) ;) in the final battle sequence.

Certain people here know it takes a lot for me to feel that way about equipment issues. This is Top 3 for me.

To hide something like a tank with those results is a significant battlefield advantage at least in the "RL"

Again, if for no other reason, I hope some of you find this of some interest anyway.
https://www.saab.com/products/mcs-mobile-camouflage-system

Awesome!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

OPen the OOB... add a series of test vehicles with an EW >4 ....try 10 then jump to 25 then 40..... every 15
Build a test game on a flat map with max visibilty and see if that addition makes any difference when you play against them.......... I don't think it will but that's what I would have to do and I do not have the time to do it as I already in this chair 8 hours a day dealing with all the other crap that needs to be dealt with and it's making me a tad "cranky"

[Pibwl]

On Polish tanks:

009 M1A1P - much better icon, with an appropriate camo is 3898 (winter 2526, desert 1085). Polish M1A1 have pretty basic kit on the turret (my photo: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:M1A1_Poland_IMG_20240903.jpg). Apparently they have no additional side armour - it rather should be 12, like USMC ones.
M1A1P designation is not used (at least not in Poland), they are USMC M1A1 FEP with additional modifications (BTW, USMC oob unit 467 M1A1HC FEP uses icon 3898)
As for now, I haven't found info when they could be considered operational (however, since 2022 Polish troops trained in Poland using 22 lent US M1A2)

007 M1A2P - actually, I'd give M1A2 the same icon - they are hard to be distinguished in practice, while the camouflage is the best. Polish M1A2 haven't such heavy stowage anyway.

036 K2PL - K2PL will be a designation of a polonized variant, this is just K2.
I believe, that the gun should be original South Korean (with better performance than "120 mm Mesko"). Korean APFSDS K276 and Heat K277 are bought (both 600 RHA, albeit from shorter L/44 barrel, however Korea has also better K279 APFSDS) (source: Wojsko i Technika 4/23)
Machine guns are in a mess (numbers copied from South Korea) - there should be 7.62 mm CMG (original is M60, but #71 7.62mm M240 CMG is enough approximation) and #176 50cal M2 AAMG.

Delivered to the first unit since 12/22, and after modification of radios and basic training, first firing on a proving ground was in late 3/23, so 4/23 might be the earliest practical date (of course, full certification of a battalion will last 36 months...)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

We decided to use the K2PL for our purposes to distinguish them from South Koreas K2 (Minor fixes to come for that and about two more due to "New" ALTAY.) and the other K2 export tanks to other countries which are in the "pipeline" due the games 2030 extension. The same process is there for the other export versions of tanks that were submitted to include also the M1A2P and M1A2T.

I did this and discussed it with Don along the lines and again due to the game's extension, that if we (U.S by way of example.) upgrade our M1A2 that we have the clear distinction of that being applied just to the USA version. Because I envisioned the posts "flying" about why isn't ours getting updated also as well?

If a foreign user updates their version (ABRAMS/K2/LEOPARD/CHALLENGER etc.) we can more easily focus on that country's version as the information "points" us to it without overly stressing about whose version gets what.

I can almost guarantee this will happen as I've modeled the LEOPARD 2A8 but as posted in this thread with refs., there's not much difference between it and the LEOPARD A27V with the biggest difference is it will have TROPHY.

I made some small adjustments in the LEOPARD 2A8 simply to again establish a SMALL degree of separation with the LEOPARD 2A7V.

Why the above? Mostly to establish platforms to further develop the Export version of the LEOPARD 2A8. This will get me what I need for it.

I'm closely tracking the orders for the export version again because of the games extension I see maybe 2 countries getting them near end of the game. Now to tie up this whole issue and process I already know of 5/6 countries are wanting this tank probably as it stands now HUNGRY might be the first deviation of the "generic" planned Export version.

But a lot can happen well before they get them (2028/2029.) and further at least one country has recently backed off from that purchase as they wish to buy more tanks along the lines of the export LEOPARD, we already have based on the LEOPARD 2A7 in the game. When you're a small country more is better!

What I really wanted to post is that of one of the 2nd or 3rd tanks I put in here when I started. It backs what I posted back then but it also provided some information I didn't know about it at the time. Kind've sounds like the "TRAP" we find ourselves in once in a while ourselves with equipment I.E. Newer information arises from "CREDIBLE" references. Anyway...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/best-ukrainian-tank-that-never-came-to-be/vi-AA1y7bTk?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=a8d4c9c1c9ba43eb87775f1ddd5c54d9&ei=11

To the EW test I'm honestly afraid I'll "Blow Something Up" :doh: and that will make me suffer the following...
:pc: :sec: :fire: :yield: "A man has to know his limitations" if it's not CyberSec I generally avoid it.

If anyone else is feeling "FROGGY" feel free. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

We decided to use the K2PL for our purposes to distinguish them from South Koreas K2 :

Just for your and everyone else's information, every day I get further and further behind so whenever I do finally get the chance to start work on the rapidly growing list of suggestions being offered. I can assure you that all the trivial nitpicky items obsessing over the exact construction of a unit name are just going to be ignored

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I want to start with a simple there must be "someone in charge" you need to only to look at what happened today at Torontos Airport today.

Shows the value of wearing a "seat belt" wherever you find them. :D

M-10 BOOKER update: Currently conducting Winter Trials. Also to tighten the START recommend AUG 2025 based on the following quote.
"The Army plans to field 14 M10 Bookers per IBCT, with the 82nd Airborne Division receiving the first units by late FY2025"

The conservative dates since the above doesn't say how many they'll get would be DEC 2025/JAN 2026 to ENSURE at least one maybe two ICBT's are FULLY equipped.

Also, this will provide a certain amount of flexibility if the remaining tests should uncover anything unforeseen.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/us-army-starts-to-test-the-m10-booker-fire-support-vehicle-for-future-deployment-in-the-arctic

I've been told by several of my co-workers (Source our TRNG LT.) that since we started our new physical standards testing of which I do the 2-mile walk (There is a 1.5 mile run in 16'30".)(Only as we are closely monitored.) in 32' minutes or less I hold the two fastest times since we've started. 27' flat NOV. 23 and 26'37" MAR. 24. That's 4.5mph+.

My goal is in the morning is 26' flat. It'll be cold that's a plus. Someone I went back out to help on the course last year to make sure he finished the last +1/4 (He wouldn't make it otherwise when we checked his interval time.) will be going out with me again tomorrow.

Sad thing is I'll be 67 in June and I'm doing this against co-workers that in some cases are over 40 years younger-how can that be!?!

Then to work later in the day. :)

Yes, I'm mentally preparing myself and bottom-line JUST better than last year wouldn't be so bad either.

Time to relax.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Pat

what I have is a phased introduction..
A section in June 2025
Platoon in Aug 2025
Coy Jan 2026

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I don't see the ARMY sending a Section into Combat but, I certainly can see them sending a Platoon into combat if needed.

Just my thought.

Walk- 26' 2" that's better than a hand grenade!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This is a carry over from my last in the APC Thread regarding the 30mm turret for the ACV.

I used to use a site called “blueprints.com” which I found is now a “dead site” that actually had a somewhat fair amount of listings of turrets used commonly on a variety of platforms.

I spent some time looking for an alternative site and the following seems like it would be a good start for many of you possibly.

https://drawingdatabase.com/category/vehicles/military/

Scroll to bottom of page to search by type/maker.

Back to Vacation.

I hope it will be of some help.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

Guys

On january 13/ 2025 slipped and fell on ice in my backyard. It was sudden and I KNEW I Had hurt myself as soon as I hit the ground BUT I got myself up and continued what I had been doing and didn't have any real "symptoms" I felt justified a trip to the Emergancy department of a local hospital until Febuary 18 / 2025
AS A result I do not know if I am capable of moving forward with the games and ASSEMBLING.THE PATCHES HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY RESPONSIBILITY[/B]...only time will tell but I May not be able to carry on and I am just putting EVERYONE on notice about that my ONE HOPE is that I start gettin better soon

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don,
I PREY YOU GET BETTER. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS BUT YOUR FAMILY, YOUR HEALTH AND WHAT WILL PROBALY BE THE HARDEST ;), LISTENING TO YOUR DOCTORS!

GET WELL!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Dion]

Gravity, that heartless *****.
indeed!

[Warwick]

Don,
Get well soon, forget the patch, get plenty of rest, else nothing matters but your health.

Best Wishes,
Warwick

[DRG]

Thank you Warwick

My wife tells me I am getting better but someone observing has a better perspective than someone at the eye of the storm. I get tired much quicker than 3 months ago but I HAVE done things in the last week I had tried and failed two weeks ago

See post #1904 of this thread --the revised Chinese tanks

It's a VERY simple thing which is why it was so frustrating not being able to do it and this really is a fundamental of "Icon building 101" but a few days ago I had a breakthrough moment and FINALLY figured out how to create a unified Hull / Turret Icon............I COULD NOT DO THAT when I came home from hospital... now I can.

It's small progress but progress nonetheless

Also heartening is the fact that after I had my stroke in 2015 it took me six weeks to get back the typing skill I got back in 2 weeks now

Don

[zovs66]

Don,

Wishing and hoping to your speedy recovery!

[RecruitMonty]

Dear Don,

I am sorry to hear that you had a nasty fall. Best thing you can do is take a load off and get well. We'll all be here when you are 100% again.

In the meantime, Godspeed!

Best Regards,

RecruitMonty

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

As I just posted in the FB Patch Thread along comes this in the news a few minutes ago how timely as it refers to that particular Post concerning Hungry. Hungry is asserting that Ukraine's latest counter Drone strikes against Russia is "An attack on our sovereignty."
https://www.newsweek.com/hungary-nato-russia-energy-infastructure-2053150

Being about 700 miles from the front lines, I think Mordovia, Romania, Baltic States and Finland have a lot more to worry about. :rolleyes:

If I were Hungry, I'd be quiet and sitting on my hands if you wanted that German equipment. Why?

Because Germany has of this writing passed its largest Defense and Infrastructure Bill since WWII.

They just might decide to keep those LEOPARD 2A8HU tanks for themselves as it won't take much to upgrade them to German BUNDESWEHR Specs.

They do have about 4 or 5 other prospective customers for them as well.

This bill will be a GREAT help to the Ukraine...

"It is also an important moment for Ukraine. The defence plans approved today by the Bundestag also allow spending on aid for states "attacked in violation of international law" to be exempt from the debt brake."

Maybe they will get them to "battle test" the export version.

Germany is certainly holding all the cards while Hungry might only be holding a "pair".
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62z6gljv2yo .

Verification of passage of the bill...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/germany-decides-to-leave-history-in-the-past-and-prepare-for-war/ar-AA1BYlUT?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=041bcaf7681b4da2d38042abf940d67b&ei=28

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Warwick]

Glad to see you are getting better Don, don't try to do too much at once,
slow and steady is the answer. I know, I had a heart attack 3 years ago.

Regards, Warwick

[DRG]

Between Andy and I, we should be featured in our own medical journal..........

[zovs66]

Between Andy and I, we should be featured in our own medical journal..........

You can add me to the list, but I only had one medical issues (heart-attack (widowmaker) 13% chance of survival).

Maybe call it the Near Death Survival Club (NDSC).

[DRG]

Between Andy and I, we should be featured in our own medical journal..........

You can add me to the list, but I only had one medical issues (heart-attack (widowmaker) 13% chance of survival).

Maybe call it the Near Death Survival Club (NDSC).



YEP

Near Death Survival Club (NDSC)

AKA

Damn F**king lucky Club. :D ( DFLC)

APPARENTLY "SP" is bad for your health :eek:

[Warwick]

Yes indeed, after my op I overheard a nurse in the office talking to someone on the phone "we don't know, it could go either way." I wondered who she was talking about as I felt fine. It wasn't until later when I got out of hospital and compared notes that I realised she was talking about me!

Regards,Warwick

[Dion]

In 1988 I got shot in the head. Had brain surgery. Was on life support. Lost most everything since then. The fact I've been lifting weights and exercising all my life, before and after, has been more of a curse than a life saver, since some organizations believe I was never hurt that bad. It must be a bad economy, it's making people act like they never would otherwise.

[DRG]

There is always a lot of uncertainty of the outcome when major surgery is involved if for no other reason than every person is unique and that makes predicting an outcome nearly impossible. ( and toss in the skill of the individual surgeon to the equation)

You'll know if it worked if you can walk away and resume a "normal" life

ONE major medical event in 10 years changes attitudes...... THREE changes them even more.

I know for certain that what happened to me in January has more chance to go sideways at some point than my stroke in 2015 BUT I am doing some things far better now than I did after the stroke......... some things not so much but overall I think Yes there IS improvement, and my wife agrees,

The progress I have made in healing "to near normal" this time is leaps and bounds more than after the stroke BUT the two events are apples and oranges........different cause and because of that, what I'll be like by Christmas are totally unknown but from the perspective of my release from hospital mid March to now projected ahead three months , I feel that if I continue improving at the rate I have I *might* be back to "near normal"

Maybe.........

[halstein]

Please don't ruin your health over a game. Focus on getting well.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Maybe a Patch by Christmas, New Years or whenever you Dam well feel like would be in order FOR THE BOTH of you!!

When's the last time you guys even played your own game??

Read a book, listened to some music and just plain spent some time with the family and friends.

All those things will exercise your mind and relax your body.

The STRESS to meet some kind of arbitrary deadline or expectations of others just because it's what you BOTH do, and what we expect PALES to the realities of what has been an ongoing battle for many years now.

If you BOTH feel the need "to get your hands dirty" an hour or two a day AT MOST should take care of the "ITCH".

For some of us the game is changing metaphorically speaking and we had BETTER all of us RESPECT that whether we want to or not.

Hence my post in the Patch Thread.

When my ashes are put into the URN (A Submarine one would be most cool with a separate compartment for CINCLANTHOME. We would just have to figure out who would be in the Forward Compartment and or the Aft one!?! :D) it won't say "He gave his all for the Game".

I DO NOT apologize to either of you for my bluntness.

We might all be working on our OPUS concerning the game but for me I intend to come out on the other side and enjoy the rest of my life with whatever time I'm given by the "Chairman of the Board. "

You both live in beautiful countries see some of it. Given the size of Ireland when we were there for the Centenary of Easter Sunday 1916 we were surprised as we made our way around the whole island at how many people had no idea of some of places we went to.

I find that sad. So, see the above makes some sense.

Sometimes these "uncomfortable" things need to be said as we want to just stay in our "bubble" until someone comes along and asks "Is there anyone in there? "

Go BUST THE BUBBLE!!

Our next reality check comes later today when we find out how much it'll cost to install a new HVAC system. Can't complain as our TRANE system lasted for 28 years without any major issues.

I have a feeling it'll cost more than it did at ~$3650 just a feeling :rolleyes: but as they say "Life Goes On" and it does until the next thing comes along.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

When's the last time you guys even played your own game??

ntil the next thing comes along.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


Well.......YOU DID ASK...........
Andy plays MUCH more often that I do

I cannot remember when I last sat down to play out a game start to finish.......think in YEARS. ( also... a lot has happened since Christmas that makes remembering events with clarity "difficult" ). If I DO play I usually play to test, and when I get the answer to my test I stop playing, generally.

When I need to test a code change, I play until I get the answer I need then compare notes with Andy.

My main focus in testing is " do the graphics I added display the way I expected them to"

if YES, then I move on to the next graphic.

Don

PS......... Ah........ wait. I think I ran a nearly full game ( UKN / RUS ) just after Christmas... but a lot has happened since Christmas 2024 so don't bet your mortgage that I am remembering this correctly.

[Mobhack]

Yep, I usually have a WW2 Long Campaign on the go, play every day or so, usually as Soviets or British.

Haven’t played MBT since last summer IIRC - and generally play UK or USA 1950s to about 75 or so. Cubans vs South Africa can also be interesting. Me likes Scorpions and Sheridans, but they do go boom a lot...:re:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well, that's encouraging to hear from the both of you. Seems like I'm closer to Don or worse.

Still trying to setup my 8th battle of 25 in my long campaign Ukraine versus Russia Oct. 2022 - Nov. 2023.

The issue is that my START also means when I start playing.

That's nothing more than short of sad!?!

June 2027 can't get here soon enough. ;)

Amana HVAV 3 Ton came in better than I thought by $2000 to $4500 less. :D

Good now take care of yourselves.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

June 2027 can't get here soon enough. ;)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

I assume that is your retirement date?

This December 22 I'll have been retired 19 years

If June 2027 is indeed your retirement, make the most of the next 26 months.

One guy I worked with lasted less than 10 days after he retired.

There are no guarantees

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Yeah, that'll be my retirement date at 68.

For CINCLANTHOMEs birthday also in June we'll be in Atlanta to see the Simple Minds, Soft Cell and Modern English.

The next day we will be going to the Atlanta Aquarium which is now I believe the largest in the country. When we were last there, it was in preparation for a major renovation and expansion done a few years back.

It was awe inspiring to sit in the theater looking at one of the largest tanks in the world and seeing the 2 Whale Sharks swimming around with some other fish. I didn't have a care in the world watching them.

We are certainly looking forward to that!!

Halifax in Oct. as noted for our 39th never got to there as I just stayed in Dartmouth across the river where we were moored on both port calls, we made there when I was on the NEBRASKA.

I understand they have a Military Tatoo Pipes and Drum Corps ALMOST as good as the "Black Watch" in Edinburgh.

For our 40th we'll book an MSC Cruise to which if the dates work out, we'll "crack open" what was in Oct. 2016 a 12-year-old bottle of Bushmills we bought at the distillery. They personalized the label to mark our 30th anniversary and were told at that time you could only buy it in Ireland.

On the very rare occasion I prefer a Tullamore Dew for "Beer" it's Smithwick's Red Ale (Prefer it to Guiness) or Innis & Gunn aged in a Bourbon, Whiskey or Rum Oak Casks (As I had with dinner Sunday.)

If it's NOT in a bottle I won't buy it. My degree is in Hotel and Restaurant Mgmt. when an Associate one still mattered. Started at age 13 and would end up with 14 yrs. in the field to include my last 4 on active duty on a not to interfere with my military responsibilities. There were many times I would have to call off due to an operational situation, they NEVER said a word about it and the staff were at my retirement.

Bottomline is a bottled Beer or Ale if stored in the back of your Refrigerator will last over a year and taste as fresh as you if you had it on the first day. CINCLANTHOME will tell you I can make a 6-pack last a year or little more. I buy the best I want at the time and can say I've had both of the above from every continent.

I have something called "TYPE II" and I have to respect it when I have a drink besides all the rest of it. 8 months before I retired is when I found out in March '02.

It's the small things in life I really appreciate such as a Full or Near Full Moon anytime but especially when I walk my 23 Magazines I check at the end of my watch on Saturdays (My Friday.)

I started as a News Paper Delivery boy at 10 years old. I grew up in the part of NY State where it SNOWS. Up at 0400-0430 to sort my newspapers and in my <first year I had 75 homes (The paper actually had you apprentice under the person responsible for the route.) before my second year that went to 125/30 homes seven days a week. During school I had to have a bigger breakfast and make the bus by 0700.

I actually had a young MA (Navy uniformed Police.) a few years back ask me "But Mr. Conklin how could have delivered your newspaper if you weren't old enough to drive?" Nice person as I recall but however obviously it was a generational thing which here deserves a :doh:

I'll be ready for JUN 2027 I'll need to keep the mind sharp (Love reading real books.) and will definitely need to keep physically active as well.

One of my co-workers just turned 70 he's afraid to stop as he's a person who that it's "Retirement to the Rocking Chair to the Grave" I say ONLY if you let it be that way.

Bored you guys enough sorry about that. It's the "little things in life" that will touch you and provide the balance needed for the other things going on in your life.

At work one of these things beside the Moon is in the last few months I'm seeing ID cards that are expiring in 2027 THAT'S MOTIVATION FOR ME.

Oh, before I forget TANKS HAVE GUNS (Just not Innis & Gunn.).

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Poland there looks like there might be a delay to FOC for our export version of the M1A2P UNIT 007 from the Polish Ministry of Defence are two issues of concern concerning game START.

1) They 4 days ago started their first "Live Fire" training exercise.
"On April 7, 2025, the Biedrusko training ground near Poznań marked a historic milestone for Poland’s armored forces. The newly acquired M1A2 Abrams SEPv3 tanks conducted their first live-fire exercises, marking a new phase in the Polish Land Forces’ fast-paced modernization process"

2) Based on the issues with ABRAMS in the Ukraine I'm sure and what appears to be shortage of TROPHY systems and more importantly...
"...is designed to support the integration of active protection systems (APS), though this capability remains unutilized in the Polish fleet. "

"Despite the significance of this achievement, concerns remain regarding the integration of active protection systems. The Polish M1A2 SEPv3 tanks are “fitted for” but not equipped with the Trophy APS. To date, the Polish Ministry of Defence has not confirmed any procurement of this system, and the availability of Trophy modules is uncertain—especially in light of the delays observed in the UK’s Challenger 3 program, which has also been affected by APS supply chain challenges. The question of whether and when such systems will be ordered remains open, with implications for both timelines and budgetary priorities.

These concerns are not limited to the Abrams platform alone. Future armored vehicles, including the K2PL tanks to be produced under South Korean license, are also expected to feature both soft-kill and hard-kill protection systems. Given the current context of the war in Ukraine, where anti-tank threats are widespread and evolving, the absence of operational APS on new platforms represents a vulnerability that could impact battlefield survivability in high-intensity conflict environments."

"With these acquisitions, Poland becomes the third country to operate the SEPv3 version after the United States and Australia, which received its first units in November 2024. While training and delivery are proceeding as planned, achieving full operational capability depends on critical decisions—particularly regarding the implementation of active protection systems. In the context of ongoing regional tensions, these decisions will directly influence the Polish Army’s capacity to counter advanced battlefield threats.

The inaugural live firing of the M1A2 SEPv3 tanks at Biedrusko marks a tangible step in Poland’s move toward higher technological standards in armored warfare. However, this technical progress also highlights a key issue: modernization of platforms must be accompanied by the integration of complete protection solutions. As regional instability and modern warfare continue to evolve, aligning equipment acquisition with defensive system implementation remains a strategic imperative for Poland."

These to some extents were the same factors why we kept pushing back (~4-5 years) the START/FOC for our M1A2C. The other factor also was that the USA required full training/qualification of the crews and number of Brigades that got fully equipped with that tank.

The current Polish decision on FOC was clearly stated above from their "MOD" but what also abundantly clear was the Polish crews are still qualifying/training on those tanks as we speak.

We should not be surprised by this at all as noted above for M1A2C/SEP 3 and when I submitted the ABRAMS M1A2 SEP2 to a somewhat lesser extent.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/successful-integration-confirmed-as-polish-abrams-m1a2-sepv3-tanks-conduct-first-test-firings

The comparison between us (Then) and Poland (Now) are closely related with the fact as well that neither of us were or currently are in a state of war that would change the ""dynamic" of what was discussed above concerning all to include FOC.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The start date in the master OOB that I am using is 6 months beyond today . Let me know how they are doing in October

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

For now, your "master date" was close to what I was thinking for about Oct.

We'll see and track by that time they should have significant progress on the training side but for now seems TROPKY could be the main issue the military and government need to sort out.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[zovs66]

Again, I ask the AI (since I am now forced at work to learn to be a good little prompt engineer) to summarize and make this more like a military report. The AI's response was:


Subject: Operational Status Update – Polish M1A2 SEPv3 Main Battle Tanks

Overview:
The Polish Ministry of Defence (MoD) has initiated live-fire training with the newly acquired M1A2 SEPv3 main battle tanks as of 07 April 2025 at the Biedrusko Training Area near Poznań. While this marks a significant milestone in the Polish Land Forces’ armored modernization program, Full Operational Capability (FOC) for the platform remains delayed due to the following key factors:


1. Crew Training and Qualification:
- Polish armored units have only recently begun live-fire exercises.
- Tank crews are in the early stages of qualification and tactical proficiency development.
- As observed in the U.S. Army’s M1A2C (SEPv3) rollout, FOC is contingent upon full training and brigade-level equipping.
- The current status aligns with standard readiness timelines in peacetime acquisition cycles.

2. Absence of Active Protection Systems (APS):
- The Polish M1A2 SEPv3 fleet is fitted for but not equipped with the Trophy Active Protection System (APS).
- No formal procurement contract for Trophy APS has been confirmed by the MoD.
- APS module availability remains uncertain due to global supply chain constraints—similar to those impacting the UK’s Challenger 3 APS integration.
- Without APS, the SEPv3 platform remains vulnerable in high-threat anti-armor environments, particularly in the context of lessons learned from the Ukraine conflict.


Strategic Implications:
- Lack of operational APS and incomplete crew certification postpone FOC status.
- Future Polish platforms, including K2PL tanks, are also expected to integrate APS (both soft-kill and hard-kill variants), raising similar procurement and timeline concerns.
- Current regional security dynamics (e.g., Russian activity) elevate the urgency of full defensive capability integration.

Comparative Analysis:
- U.S. experience with the M1A2C/SEPv3 showed similar delays (4–5 years) due to training, integration of APS, and unit fielding requirements.
- Neither Poland nor the U.S. faced wartime urgency, allowing for extended acquisition and readiness cycles.
- The current Polish approach mirrors established NATO peacetime modernization practices, though operational risks remain until APS is fielded.

Conclusion:
While Poland’s acquisition and fielding of the M1A2 SEPv3 represents a substantial upgrade in armored warfare capability, FOC remains dependent on:
- Completion of crew training and unit-level readiness.
- Final decisions regarding APS procurement and integration.

Delays in these areas, if unaddressed, could limit the platform’s survivability and operational effectiveness in high-intensity combat scenarios.

[DRG]

Ask the AI-------" how long does it take to train a tank crew "

Answer "Training a complete tank crew, including all four roles (commander, driver, gunner, loader), typically takes around 22 weeks. This includes 10 weeks of Basic Combat Training (BCT) and 12 weeks of Advanced Individual Training (AIT) focused on the specific tank type, like the M1 Abrams.

From the beginning of Feb to the middle of September is 22 weeks so FOR THE TIME BEING.I am happy with the Oct start date I have in the master OOB for the Polish M1A2 SEPv3 Main Battle Tanks. Right now I am still recovering from my head injury there are a lot of things I KNOW I do better now than I did when I came home from hospital a month ago BUT there are still some deficits I have to deal with and I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT THAT AT ALL.

I don't expect we will be done with MBT before Oct 2025 so I will wait and see what the status of training and APS is in 6 months

The Polish M1 does not have CIWS now but if it gets added in RL it will be added to the game update

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Good to know I'm as smart as AI-I THINK!?! :rolleyes:

Nice breakdown by the AI but for now I'd like to draw my own conclusions and interpretations from the data.

Exercises my brain to seek alternative perspectives i.e. the "what ifs" etc.

To many studies are out there and validated to suggest if you don't challenge your brain, it'll potentially go "soft" on you which the long haul could lead to such things as Alsheimer's/Demeshia (AD).

A good outlook/attitude in life is important to as studies suggest something my mom didn't always have later in life.

Physically she was very fit, but life didn't turn out the way she thought it would, and she stopped reading, playing games and such until she got AD.

After three years in a facility one day her brain couldn't remember
to tell her throat muscles how to swallow.

Well, I leave the rest to you.

I'll do my own thinking and draw my own conclusions rightly or wrongly, stay positive and maintain a Positive Fxxxing Mental Attitude (PFMA) AT ALL TIMES!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

By now everyone on this forum knows ( or should ) that I experienced a traumatic brain injury that MAY have an impact on how I live my life until EOL

That is my issue to deal with but I do have memory deficits

SO....... could someone please show me where Andy or I wrote there would be mine carrying drones added to the game

Thanks
Don

[Mobhack]

We have not promised mine-laying drones - someone did suggest them somewhere though.

It wont be happening since:
- Time taken for the drones to lay a 1 hex light scatter minefield is beyond typical game time, as each drone will need to go to the mined hex, drop 1 (1) actual mine and then return and repeat several times in order to be classed as 1 game mine point - which is more than 1 actual mine. each hex is half a football field, remember!
- AI has no clue about using these so if given them, it will just kamikaze the things as "scouts"
- AI has no clue about the enemy ability to drop mines in a non assault game, so wont buy any engineer assets to possibly deal with them. See how it has problems already should cluster weapons lay a few random UXO.

So if they were implemented, they would be a way for a human player to slap the poor little AI about the head with ease and totally unbalance game play. Only would be worth it for human v human play really, and if you really want to "simulate" it - then just bombard an area with cluster ammo from an off-map howitzer battery and wait for a few UXO to appear there?

Oh yeah - as a simulated drone laying device - use a minelet battery, that would also do the trick. Been so long since I ever used one of those that I'd forgotten about those.

[Blazing 88's]

By now everyone on this forum knows ( or should ) that I experienced a traumatic brain injury that MAY have an impact on how I live my life until EOL

That is my issue to deal with but I do have memory deficits

SO....... could someone please show me where Andy or I wrote there would be mine carrying drones added to the game

Thanks
Don

This is all I could find doing a quick search, nothing mentioned about drones /mines that I could find...

Drones with RPG warheads will be in the V18 Ukraine OOB and the V18 Russian Extension OOB has a KUB-2
http://52.116.51.243/showpost.php?p=857347&postcount=161

[Dion]

[B][U]
Oh yeah - as a simulated drone laying device - use a minelet battery, that would also do the trick.


Mine carrying drones are not very realistic at this scale. Could use the scenario editor to deploy the mines before the battle starts though.

How powerful are minelets? What do they look like? Are they concealed like regular mines or are they always visible to the player?

[Mobhack]

They tend to be track busters or anti-personnel - not large.

They will be scattered on the surface, so fairly easily detectable unless in e.g. grass, fields or trees. Easily enough to spot if they fell onto a road especially if tarmac.

A delaying item rather than deadly. Nasty for the local civilian population to have to deal with. Western ones were eventually painted a luminous yellow to help civvies, please politicians etc. The eastern bloc - not so bothered.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Interesting last few Posts. And NO neither Andy nor You made any such suggestion concerning Mine Drones

Now that I have a better understanding of Dons memory issue, I'll start with the mine drone issue as that started on 6 April.

Mark for informational purposes, in the "What happens in 2025? Thread Post 164 How the Russians had used said drones to heavily mine the road network Ukraine was using to support I believe a critical logistics center.

Post 165 Thought it was cool but made an inquiry about those mines. "No harm no foul" there.

Post 166 Mark provided said information and mentioned it would slow down the game.

Post 167 I posted this because I saw the "potential" based I what we've seen many times where someone would latch onto a piece equipment which in time leads to momentum building in the threads of "can we have this and if not why?"

And drones certainly have been "the flavor of the month" except in reality the last couple of years or more.

I stated many reasons why I felt it was a bad idea. I knew it would get Dons ATTENTION AND IT DID. Don and STEVES308 thanked me (And thank you!) without comment. I thought the matter would die there.

However, the following post involving the AI ANALYSIS of my post said the same thing I said and to be honest my first thought was WTF!

So, for the record Don has NEVER been shy in making a comment on my posts good or bad. When it's a simple THANKS I know he concurs with what I've posted. It's just that simple.

If you need an example of when I've gone a little "overboard" well that happened 3 days later in the APC Thread Post 742

He concurred with the data HOWEVER, not so much in my use of the English language. Just scroll down from mine. ;)

MBT Thread Post 1957 I ("") quoted from the Polish Ministry of Defense from my very credible ref. and offered my inputs as taken from that post as well. See the following now with "Bold".

"These to some extents were the same factors why we kept pushing back (~4-5 years) the START/FOC for our M1A2C. The other factor also was that the USA required full training/qualification of the crews and number of Brigades that got fully equipped with that tank."

"We should not be surprised by this at all as noted above for M1A2C/SEP 3 and when I submitted the ABRAMS M1A2 SEP2 to a somewhat lesser extent."

"The comparison between us (Then) and Poland (Now) are closely related with the fact as well that neither of us were or currently are in a state of war that would change the ""dynamic" of what was discussed above concerning all to include FOC. "

The AI comes along again not once but twice to confirm all I posted.

Having a better handle on Dons memory in "Medium" area or more, I wouldn't expect him to remember that in dealing with both M1A2 SEP2 and what was still at the time M1A2 SEP 3 I posted from Dept. of the Army the official overview tank training document. That document broke down length of training for each position in the tank along with a general understanding of the training to be given. I could be wrong but, I believe it was more in line as a student orientation document.

But I suppose someone will just ask the AI if my memory is correct or not.

Hopefully this clears up some of the "angst" out there as this could've all be avoided.

And finally, I would request that the use of the AI to breakdown what I'm trying to say, mean or to fact check me in the threads stop.

The score is Me 3 the AI 0/ or "Nil" if you prefer as it covered everything I put in the posts.

And further as I put it out here just because I don't own a cell phone because of all the crap out there and they're just not that secure, doesn't mean I'm not tech savvy.

The AI has its uses, that being said for the more challenging issues in the game or other, you might want to take a DEEP BREATH and MAYBE just ask yourself "I wonder if he used the AI about this issue?" :rolleyes:

Regards,
Pat
:capt:


:capt:

[DRG]

Interesting last few Posts. And NO neither Andy nor You made any such suggestion concerning Mine Drones

Now that I have a better understanding of Dons memory issue,

I REALLY would recomend you don't aquire a "better understanding" THE HARD WAY.

It is a major ** AND I MEAN** MAJOR PITA ......unless you like having people you have never met before tell you all the things you used to do but cannot now :mad:

.......and anything I do, do I get tired quicker but I don't dare have a nap or I won't sleep well or hardly at all the next night.

NOT fun

That Blackburn Skua I built I put into a shp file and that would have taken me <5min 4 months ago........ I just got it in finally and "test flew" it sucessfully BUT IT TOOK ME NEARLY AN HOUR TO REMEMBER ALL THE STEPS....I guess I should be happy I finally managed it but I am NOT feeling it ATM.. MAYBE in time.

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17212&stc=1&d=1744656689

Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The following is an update of what will eventually become the ABRAMS M1A3.

A couple of quick points...
Read the caption under the picture CAREFULLY as the current word is ..."developed"...(Article is dated 4/16/2025) which is the same I'm seeing from my other sources posted and or saved in my tank folder.

It'll weigh about 60 tons versus 73 tons for the M1A2C (I believe SEP 2 68-70 tons.). The package will be smaller with only 3 vice 4 Crew. Also, it'll have an auto loader in a remotely operated turret. However...
"This means that the space designated for the crew will be significantly smaller than it is now, making it easier to secure with armor of the intended resistance. "

This is what for years I've saying about Japan's TYPE 10. Because it's smaller doesn't mean a tank is any less protected. From what I can "Glean" concerning at this early stage in development so far is the M1A3 is going to be "near par" to its "older/bigger brothers" with DU armor.

Since no one can figure out the type of "highly classified" STEEL component of the TYPE 10, I feel and intend to higher values in that category along with an increase in its TI/GSR.

It is "possible" it might even have DU Armor since Japan certainly has that nuclear capacity and capability. The bottom of REF. 2 states my case to at least the "hypothetical" point.
https://www.iiss.org/sv/online-analysis/online-analysis/2019/10/how-japan-could-go-nuclear/
https://www.newsweek.com/japans-new-leader-wants-nuclear-weapons-opinion-1968235
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/commentary/2025/03/18/japan/japan-developing-deploying-nuclear-weapons/

M1A3 article. Also take time to read the "Context" part of the article at the bottom...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/american-military-s-future-tank-unveiled-m1e3-aims-for-quick-debut/ar-AA1D2LEZ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=aaeab61a6541476994316a1393ce4b2c&ei=6

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The
https://colossvs.artstation.com/projects/vYlgx
shows width of 4 m and overall with gun overhang of 11.2 which is handy when placing the turret on the icon, but the actual hull lenght woould have been nice BUT scaling from that drawing on that websight looks like the hull WxL is CLOSE ENOUGH to 2:1 to work from and that is not significantly smaller than the existing M1A2 SEP Abrams Icon

BUT

If anyone finds a really good line drawing or a good top-down photo of the actual vehicle please post it here

There are a couple other tanks this one resembles in small details but that changes depending on the photo

Don

[DRG]

very VERY early stage hull comparison


https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17214&stc=1&d=1744895372

M1A3 bottom


https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/11021905


SOMEWHAT "Turkish Altay"

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright here we go the video below within the first 3 minutes you'll get some decent to "fix" where things are on the turret at 3:13 pause the video which will get you what you want but it is a test to probably certify the turret.

I just got home so no time to finish watching this video, you might want to run it all the through just see if there's something better.

Wish to point the secondary weapon is to a 30mm Auto Cannon this is of course subject to change.

I will attempt to upload a couple of or 3D renderings if not in here when you see this check your email.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m4qH3UfHug

17216

Let's see what happens.

OK first one didn't take however the one above did and I preferred it to the first because it's more in line with the above video and current views of the tank.


Regards,
Pat
:capt:
Hope this helps like the last time from a couple of months back.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Been awhile since I looked at ORNX for Russian losses in the Ukraine.

However, looking at the data we can see the following...

1. We now have a more complete picture of which older tanks have reached the battlefield which the last time I looked at it and posted didn't have more than handful listed (T-55 mostly).

2. It is also very clear of the more modern tanks that the T-72B3 and T-80 (Including the updated versions for both.) represent the "backbone" of their tank force.

3. All the reporting on the fact that Russia was producing large amounts of the T-90 tanks (In particular the T-90M) seem to have been exaggerated because the losses have increased since last viewed but, not by not much as the losses of the type has not gone up significantly over time. This does make sense if you've been following the state of Russia's ability to produce the more modern tanks due to the sanctions imposed on them since the war broke out.

4. What also stands out is the there are currently 500 tanks they couldn't verify by type.

5. What's missing is the T-14 in any category they track. It's as of this writing, that sources are still reporting of the mess this tank is. Reminds me of the ARJUN MBT. Plus, the Russian economy is just a "train wreck" right now made worse by out tariffs.

Here you go...
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

For Ukraine seems like the M-55S, AMX-10 RC(R), OPLOT and OPLOT-M (With none listed in any category.) are the main winners so far. And yes, both OPLOT versions have been confirmed to operating on the battlefield of which a couple of articles I've already posted on that matter are in here-somewhere.

The ref also gives us a clearer picture of what's in the field both from the Ukraine and from Foreign donated equipment.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html

Someone should've been in bed a couple of hours ago, wait a minute, I think it's me!?! :shock:

At least it's my my TGIF!!! :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

M1A3 VERY early stage


https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17223&stc=1&d=1745241822

[DRG]

M1A3 VERY early stage


https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17223&stc=1&d=1745241822


.......and I doubt I will go much further with it until I start seeing consistent photos of it

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I would whole heartly agree with your last. As it looks right now and as I posted "subject to change" it's too along with the 30mm have also a RWS 50 cal. and 7.62mm coax.

It's just too early to tell.

Your last looks really good.

I'm trying to figure out the "dome" I know it's not Commanders Panoramic Sight.

I suspect a like Submarine Periscope which contains multiple antennas in it, that this will also include GPS/Radar (Possibly) BMS/IFF/Drone EW (Which will be integrated into this tank) and certainly C4I which is what set the Japanese TYPE 10 apart from most other modern tanks to include ours when it was fielded.
I believe it was the first tank to operate with a fully integrated C4i system.
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA414829.pdf
https://www.tobyhanna.army.mil/Capabilities/C4ISR/
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=c4i+army&mid=EA98B8E033046BE25A8BEA98B8E033046BE25A8B&FORM=VIRE
(C4I coordinated ops in action.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

BREAKING NEWS: The M-10 BOOKER is cancelled. Other systems to follow. Waiting for army.mil to respond.

SECDEF called upon the Army to make cuts a couple of days ago.
https://militarnyi.com/en/news/jltv-m10-booker-ah-64d-what-will-u-s-army-retire-next-and-why/
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-army-s-new-m10-booker-light-tank-is-in-big-trouble/ar-AA1DRf0a?ocid=BingNewsSerp
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/m10-booker-tank-cancelled/
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-scrapping-m10-booker-light-tank-vehicle-too-heavy-2025-5
https://kmaupdates.com/2025/05/02/fort-campbell-bridges-collapse-under-m10-tanks-fatal-flaw/
https://insidedefense.com/daily-news/army-axes-m10-booker-prime-example-poor-acquisition-practice-driscoll-says
https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2025/05/hegseth-issues-army-lengthy-do-list/405000/

So, from the quotes taken for the above refs I'm thinking it's a "done deal" now the PITA will be to track the likes of the AMPV. APACHE D, UAV's and JTLV.

Most will fall under STOP Production orders.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

***K!

NOT ONLY "track the likes of the AMPV. APACHE D, UAV's and JTLV."

But also older systems that might have had their end date trimmed because of the now missing replacements for them

There are 6 AH-64D's start data variously 1997, 2006, 2007
End dates are 2005 for U123 and the rest go to 2030

FUN..............NOT!

[DRG]

I'm not changing anything in the OOB's right now....late fall 2025 let me know "what's still on the chopping block"

[DRG]

In the most recent development, the Army now seems to have realized that something has gone wrong. At its training grounds in Fort Campbell, eight of the 11 bridges it crossed cracked under the weight of the “light tank,” making it too heavy for the Amy’s needs.

The M10 Booker seems to be the latest victim of a broken requirements process that is more concerned with checking boxes than actually evaluating the needs of the Army.

If true that would be a game changer

Also...........crewed attack helicopter formations to be restructured and augmented with "inexpensive drone swarms capable of overwhelming adversaries."

The US OOB has one ( 1 ) drone and it's unarmed so there will be additions.... just what they are is TBD..........FORTUNATELY we have the extention OOB in place so we can add many more...... the first unit in the extentions was the M10..........grumble

[DRG]

BREAKING NEWS: The M-10 BOOKER is cancelled. Other systems to follow. Waiting for army.mil to respond.




With the programme now halted, these vehicles may be reassigned to armoured units, sold to foreign partners, or placed into storage.



That means the M10 *may* not be pulled completly out of the game........they could end up anywhere doing what they we designed to do or becoming dust magnets locked in a warehouse

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Here's what I wanted as expressed in my last post.

The next two items read the same but, I posted them for context.

First as the upper Chain of Command received it...
https://api.army.mil/e2/c/downloads/2025/05/01/c4c9539c/letter-to-the-force-army-transformation-initiative.pdf

Last also from the army.mil News section which I first saw.
https://www.army.mil/article/285100/letter_to_the_force_army_transformation_initiative

First the M1E3 appears to be safe.

For now, except as already noted so from the above...
"We will cancel procurement of outdated crewed attack aircraft such as the AH-64D, excess ground vehicles like the HMMWV and JLTV, and obsolete UAVs like the Gray Eagle."

So, we will not be producing and or buying any more of those systems and other systems TBA in the future.

From the quote I highlighted the ones most in danger of being withdrawn from active service.

"We live in interesting times. "

I'm not worried about AMPV as it was already fielded by the USA and we further adjusted the START date accordantly as posted. We have no backup plan (Except autonamious systems still being evaluated.) or "whiff" of another armored unit to replace it or to transport our troops in.

As noted, we'll have to be "eyes on" for certainly the next few months or more.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Just came across ;)this a few minutes ago, I'll call this the "Don't fall in!?!" article. I think most will catch my meaning ;) as it relates to the information I passed along to Don yesterday in the APC Thread for the timeline posts. Anyway...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/north-korea-photos-offer-glimpse-of-kim-jong-un-s-tank-factory/ar-AA1Ebknl?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=821b96c5674a4731b8cd111ce65a8f60&ei=42

The next has no game impact however it most certainly has potential real life consequences.

We have decided at the end of last week or earlier to not allow Australia to send their M1A1 Abrams to the Ukraine one of the reasons is stating we don't think they want them however, Ukraine did address the issue that they do want them on the web. Besides they figured out how to better protect the "Top" (Another issue that was brought up by us.) a few months back and we haven't seen anything in a while about drones taking them out.

I guess they managed the situation quite well and without our help. They must've been paying attention to what the Israelis have been doing for decades, making our equipment better then when they got them to include more recently their F-35I.

Before I post this I'm sticking to my START for these tanks as I recently posted they are still training and qualifying on these tanks. Further the only ref that matters is the Australian "REAL" Army newspaper I subscribe to. Para 6 of the following mentions the delay in shipping.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/australias-army-boosts-armored-power-with-activation-of-second-u-s-made-m1a2-sepv3-tank-squadron
https://kyivindependent.com/transfer-of-abrams-tanks-from-australia-to-ukraine-stalled-due-to-us-resistance-media-reports/
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/the-m1-abrams-tanks-bound-for-ukraine-are-still-stuck-in-australia
https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/us-blocking-australia-abrams-ukraine

It's a wonder how these things come along to support a point I made in a post so for a further example here's the following...
https://www.armyrecognition.com/focus-analysis-conflicts/army/defence-security-industry-technology/technology-ukraine-develops-tm-2025-anti-tank-mine-with-3d-printed-smart-fuse

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

EDIT: Alright was heading to bed when I realized I forgot the following. This is the reason why the K2 PIP was "killed" 2-3 years ago. First the K2 had many of the systems incorporated into the tank when the decision was made to improve the K2 and be able to build a larger tank force quicker which also included modernizing the K1 to the K1A2.

This also lead to the K3 planning which I started posting on about a year ago at least. When I saw this article there was another obvious reason to get it posted, which Don will most certainly pick up on. Read Para 2 very slowing. and the rest of the article will certainly show this tank has a long way to go. VLS on a tank MAYBE-WOW!
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/hyundai-rotem-officially-registers-the-design-of-south-koreas-future-k3-stealth-tank
(Now corrected in here as well-thanks Don. Cut the end "k" when made bold early this morning.)

[DRG]

registers-the-design-of-south-koreas-future-k3-stealth-tan[/url][/B]k[/QUOTE]

The link cut the K off the end in link above

This is the corrected one

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/hyundai-rotem-officially-registers-the-design-of-south-koreas-future-k3-stealth-tank

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Perhaps a little clarity on the Russian T-54 tank usage.

And based on the ORNX numbers for the T-54/55 tanks I feel they both are being used as indirect artillery support as the below video suggests for the T-54.

I base this on the current ORNX numbers for all reporting items they cover to show that a total of only 14 of the above tanks have been reported.

Unless you want them as artillery units MAYBE you might just want to save yourself a couple of Russian slots. Neither have been upgraded for the current war.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/ancient-t-54-tanks-resurface-in-ukraine-tactical-reuse-or-desperation/vi-AA1AKE7Z
(This is less than a day old.)
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/4/28/2165186/-About-those-Russian-T-55-tanks

To better support the "MAYBE" by contrast I looked to the next tanks which would be the T-62 and up. Again from ORNX.

5 T-62 Obr. 1967: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (1, captured)

2 T-62 Obr. 1972: (1, destroyed) (1, abandoned)

135 T-62M: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6 and 7, and so forth...

46 T-62M Obr. 2022: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, and so forth...

36 T-62MV: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, destroyed) (7, and so forth...

The above fall under the SOVIET banner to indicate they had only minor improvements made to them if at all.

10 T-62MV Obr. 2022: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, and so forth.

39 Unknown T-62: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, and so forth...

The above two fall under the RUSSIAN banner.

And note this is why almost a 100% of my refs to include the "vaunted" JANES use this site as the data is verifiable and more importantly to me and I'm sure most legitimate of the refs like is if it's in the "Unknown" category there is no guessing of which model it is so it is what it is which is again "Unknown" period.

Wasn't going to do this but here you go after this this you're on your own to check deeper this for "GP"...

3 T-64A: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (1, damaged)

92 T-64BV: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed) (3, destroyed) (4, destroyed) (5, destroyed) (6, destroyed) (7, and so forth...

2 T-64BVK: (1, destroyed) (2, destroyed)

1 Unknown T-64: (1, destroyed)

All above SOVIET era again.

All after start with T-72 "URAL" at (1) and goes way up after that as you can imagine.

I would think again T-54/55 would be wasted slots again in the current war unless used as indirect artillery and Russia all ready has enough of that to include a new system that just came on line.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

My final point is also for all the articles saying that the T-54/55 tanks have fought in all these battles over the last almost two years just doesn't wash with reality of the numbers lost for both types especially as compared to the T-62/64 tanks that arrived on the front about the same time.

Also you can find online some indicating that both the T-55 is very similar to the T-62 even the main gun design are about the same. This also includes the size of both tanks. The one way to distinguish a difference is I believe it was that they have the same number of road wheels however unlike the T-55 the front roadwheel is separated from the rest and on the T-62 the gaps between the roadwheels that increase towards the rear roadwheel (Hopefully I believe that's how it was and I didn't "reverse" the tanks .).

My recommendation and your call.

I'm staying "independent" in the tanks I'm working on however, and we've discussed this many times over the years and that is are we going to keep TI/GSR at 60 for tanks etc. due to game map constrictions and overall all game play?

I have NO PROBLEMS with this as is just wanted to see where your thinking is on the matter. You can answer here or PM me if you wish for this topic.

THANKS!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Blazing 88's]

US Army Reevaluates Tank Warfare Strategy Amid Drone Threats:
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/exclusive-us-army-reevaluates-tank-warfare-strategy-amid-drone-threats

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I read that article so I guess that means that hopefully we won't get into a shooting war in the next 5-10 years when we might have enough autonomous systems out there to lead the charge.

As I don't have much faith in the leadership at DOD at the moment, they should be well aware (Or are not discussing it.) that as reported that the TROPHY launchers are being adjusted lower than the current angle of 55 degrees to both offer protection against drones and ATGW weapons. The initial testing showed TROPHY was "somewhat" effective but obviously not effective enough.

Israel did however find that IRON FIST in testing was highly efficient (They claimed 100% though I'm not "handing my hat on that" and would've felt better with 90% + just guessing on my part.) out to a distance of 1.2km and I've not seen anything to dispute that range.

Germany has the SHIELD system which in the video I posted discussing all of this showed a FUCHS running a course with many anti-tank weapons being fired at it from both sides. None got through.

Further in regards to Germany there now is some speculation that the LEOPARD 2A8 might get SHIELD instead of TROPHY. It'll be awhile before we see the 2A8 get to FOC so this will have to be tracked closely.

EW is not a factor as the newer tanks already have at least 2 to 4 masts already on them that can integrate an EW anti-drone capability and if I had to choose the IFF mast would be my choice for reasons I can't go into here even for when I was active-that should tell you something right there. MAYBE! ;)

Again a wonderful article.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This will be "Short and Sweet" in that Australia has begun sending their M1A1 ABRAMS to the Ukraine.

Though this situation has raised some "eye brows" in the Pentagon (Which has been recently reported that they stopped the arms shipments to the Ukraine w/o POTUS supposedly not knowing about it.) part of the concern beyond what I recently posted included the fact that the Pentagon was suggesting they didn't want them, is the concern it's in a "grey area" (Since we sent them ourselves.) of the U.S. International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) agreement as it pertains to foreign sales.

From want I can find, I've not seen anything to suggest these tanks have been modified before shipping.

And at this point haven't checked what Ukraine has already as compared to what Australia is sending them (They might be slightly better.) if so fine for RL and GL.

Also based on an article I just got from "Down Under" and have already posted the AAR is holding back about a Companies worth until the M1A2C Export tanks are FULLY INTERGRATED sometime around mid-2026.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/breaking-news-australia-begins-shipping-m1a1-abrams-tanks-to-ukraine-without-the-green-light-of-u-s

Plenty more about this on the web.

Have an early day with some training with a new hire class.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright for the sake of getting some sleep and to save Don a "little time" I've taken a look at the Australian M1A1 AIM SA UNIT 026 as compared to the the Ukrainian ABRAMS UKR* UNIT 714.

The Ukrainian version is nothing more than the M1A1 Export version of the tank submitted with the ERA added to it as later reports had shown.

Generally speaking it is important to note when these tanks were delivered to both countries, 2007 for Australia and 2023 for the Ukraine.

So it makes perfectly good sense that the Ukrainian version would have the improved TI/GSR 45 vice 40 for the Australian version.

Likewise considering the geographic differences (Or Battlespace.) involved it would make sense that Australia would favor an ammo loadout more on the armor vs. armor were the Ukrainian tank is more well rounded to fight both armor and infantry.

There are "minor" fluctuations in the armor values but not enough to matter in the big picture and one must consider especially concerning Australia's tank was more built to their requirements while we are building those tanks today for a more "general" market.

So as I already mentioned previously we should send the Ukrainians the Australian tanks "as is" for one it'll give the player the option to chose which one will be better suited for the next battle ahead or both working together.

And would you believe it that my ref sort of brings up some of this to a degree but more importantly they will (Ukraine) be receiving these tanks unaltered as is from Australia.

However once they get them they'll add the ERA that UKR UNIT 714 has along with possibly increasing the TI/GSR to 45
though that might fall in closer to "speculation" at this time.

Also for both you might consider the TOP to be 10 VICE 8 for both based on posts I made last year where the Ukraine added a 1 to 1.5 inch armor plate fitted to the ABRAMS turret roof that also had raised grill like "cage" over the plate armor at roughly to same height of 1-1.5 inches as the pictures showed from a couple of those refs. Both were cut to fit the turret as designed I at first I almost missed that until I "blew it up".

From Para 2 of the ref:
"In addition to the logistical issues, the Australian variants could be different from those already sent by the U.S., requiring Ukrainian crews to undergo extra training."

What I think about the "training" issue to me falls in line with I have any number of wonderful and beautiful bridges I'll sell you a bargain price in NYC!?! :angel
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-complex-dynamics-of-australia-s-m1-abrams-tanks-donation-to-ukraine-amidst-modern-warfare-challenges/ar-AA1Fh4xj?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=dc240c1cd5a64e2ba530e11450c9a742&ei=20

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I'll add another option

In my master Ukrainian OOB there is a "M1A1 Cage" in slot 756https://i.imgur.com/xo1N5dn_d.png?maxwidth=520&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

https://i.imgur.com/aGGvHoY_d.png?maxwidth=520&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

Right now it has an end date of 9/125....... why 9/125 ? IDK exactly. I suspect I added this between when I slipped and fell on the ice and when I was admitted to hospital and don't remember anything for three weeks BUT it's an MIA1 with ERA added and with the date extended to 12/130 I think it would be ideal as the Australian addition to the Ukrainian inventory of M1A1's without adding a separate unit that does the same thing.........and it's green

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That solution will work.

However, if I may suggest, you might want to increase the TI/GSR to 45 so that it'll match the current in game Ukrainian ABRAMS UKR* UNIT 714 just a thought.

Otherwise looks very good.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I believe I already submitted a change due to the training etc. I normally make allowances for, if not here we go...
CHANGE/M1A2T/UNIT 025/CHANGE/START/OCT 2025/VICE/NOV 2024.//
Second shipment confirmed enroute to arrive shortly if not just getting there now.
From the ref. Para 3..."As of June 2025, Taiwan’s Army has received 38 M1A2T tanks (First batch-mine.) currently used for conversion training by the 584th Armored Brigade at the Armor Training Command. This brigade, based in Hsinchu, is expected to be reinforced with the incoming batch. The tanks are scheduled to conduct their first live-fire exercises between June 18 and 27at the newly developed Kengzikou training range in Hsinchu County."

From the ref. Para 5..."This event would follow live-fire certification exercises in late June and the formal fielding of the first operational unit later in 2025."

This would seem to reflect the thinking of the USA in fielding our tanks such as ICO M1A2 SEP 2 was I believe 8 Brigades (or Battalions, it was a long time ago when I posted that bit of information.) were equipped before it was fielded.

Also from Para 5...
"The older CM12 tanks have been completely decommissioned and transferred to the Armament and Maintenance Development Center for dismantling and parts recovery."

"M60A3 tanks are scheduled for limited upgrades, while CM11 tanks will be progressively placed into storage."

To the M60A3 seen reports to indicate they will get a new FCS, Ceramic or Applique armor, ERA (Maybe) and less likely though mentioned a 120mm MG.

I'll have to get back into the OOB to recommend REASONABLE END dates for the CM11 and CM12 tanks.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/us-to-send-second-batch-of-m1a2t-abrams-tanks-to-taiwan-amid-rising-chinese-threats

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Blazing 88's]

Russia develops new assault tank armed with 152mm howitzer to maximize firepower against fortified targets
https://armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/exclusive-russia-develops-new-assault-tank-armed-with-152mm-howitzer-to-maximize-firepower-against-fortified-targets

https://armyrecognition.com/templates/yootheme/cache/ee/Russia_develops_new_assault_tank_armed_with_152mm_ howitzer_to_maximize_firepower_against_fortified_t argets_925_001-ee3b52d2.webp

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Let me "TEMP Down" the lead "tag line" of the last post with the following which is the 1st sentence from the ref....
On June 18, 2025, a Russian patent filed by a team of engineers affiliated with the Yuri Gagarin State Technical University in Saratov described a new concept for a heavily modified assault tank.

So they have a blue print of a proposed tank with supporting documents.

Russia will be hard pressed to pay for this tank especially in retooling tank production lines so that they can manufacture it.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/exclusive-russia-develops-new-assault-tank-armed-with-152mm-howitzer-to-maximize-firepower-against-fortified-targets

The South Korean K1A2 just recently made it's first appearance in Australia. The data when I submitted this tank in the last Patch I believe, was somewhat ambiguous as to whether it would be equipped (Though my refs. did say it would be compatible to do so.) with the KSTAM.

The article is saying it was indeed equipped with the KSTAM.

I'm thinking maybe for UNIT 027 dropping weapon slot 4 7.62mm M60 AAMG and replacing it w/KSTAM.

Thoughts?

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/south-koreas-k1a2-tank-makes-first-appearance-in-australia-during-talisman-sabre-2025-exercise

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

The South Korean K1A2 just recently made it's first appearance in Australia. The data when I submitted this tank in the last Patch I believe, was somewhat ambiguous as to whether it would be equipped (Though my refs. did say it would be compatible to do so.) with the KSTAM.

The article is saying it was indeed equipped with the KSTAM.

I'm thinking maybe for UNIT 027 dropping weapon slot 4 7.62mm M60 AAMG and replacing it w/KSTAM.

Thoughts?

https://www.armyrecognition.com/news/army-news/2025/south-koreas-k1a2-tank-makes-first-appearance-in-australia-during-talisman-sabre-2025-exercise

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

For now, I have added the KSTAM to weapons slot 163 of Australia.......which is the same WS SK uses for the KSTAM

There was a bit of misdirection in that post

The South Korean K1A2 just recently made it's first appearance in Australia.


But there is no K1A2 in the Australian OOB.....but there is in SK so I have put the KSTAM into the Australian OOB ( we have the space ).... but it's there for now but the K1A2 is not until we get solid info that Australia is using them.................... And this post would indicate that Austrailia is just the place they were seen recently


A South Korean Marine Corps K1A2 main battle tank made its debut in Australia during Exercise Talisman Sabre 2025, showcasing its firepower at SWBTA alongside 35,000 troops from 19 nations in the Indo-Pacific’s largest military exercise.

What I WILL do is add a K1A2+ to SK unit 28 set up like you suggest.

FOR THE RECORD: I just woke up, I had a very "bad day" yesterday and hoping this one is not it's evil twin.......... and I am a little slower on the uptake than I was 6 months ago.:eek:

[DRG]

As for the Russian Assault tank.......

Right now it's an "interesting line drawing"

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17246&stc=1&d=1752843978

I haven't totally " lost it"........yet:D