When to Penetrate

[RadicalTurnip]

I have an astral 2 mage equipped with the mirror that lets you mindhunt. She also has the eye of penetration, does this actually help, or is it a static penetration because the item is casting?

Are battlefield-wide spells effected by penetration (like Heat from Hell, Darkness, Bone-breaking/whatever it's called), are they effected by caster level?

What about province-targeting spells, like wolven winter, Fires from afar, flames from the sky? I assume province-targeting creature spells don't benefit from pen or caster level(like Send Horror, Earth Attack, etc).

Any other weird instances that penetration seems to work, but may not seem like it would?

[pyg]

I've always advised doing so whenever the opportunity presents itself.

[Graeme Dice]

I have an astral 2 mage equipped with the mirror that lets you mindhunt. She also has the eye of penetration, does this actually help, or is it a static penetration because the item is casting?

I'm not sure about this one.

Are battlefield-wide spells effected by penetration (like Heat from Hell, Darkness, Bone-breaking/whatever it's called), are they effected by caster level?

Unless a spell says "MR negates" or "MR negates easily", then penetration and magic resist have no effect on it. Any effect listed under the spell that has a '+' is boosted by magic skill levels that are greater than the minimum. If you have more than the minimum magic skill, then the fatigue cost is reduced to (original fatigue)/(1+(current level)-(minimum level)). So if you have one more skill level, then fatigue is halved, two more and it is one third. Spell casting encumbrance is still added onto this.

What about province-targeting spells, like wolven winter, Fires from afar, flames from the sky? I assume province-targeting creature spells don't benefit from pen or caster level(like Send Horror, Earth Attack, etc).

These follow the same rules as battlefield spells, so unless an effect is listed for greater skill levels they have no effect.

[Micah]

I *think* I tested the black mirror and penetration items help, but it has been a while so I'm a bit fuzzy on it.

[Squirrelloid]

She also has the eye of penetration, does this actually help,

Hmmm... I suppose there are reasons she might need penetration. The in-game seduction mechanic doesn't really support that kind of seduction, however.

Also, I never thought of an eye as a suitable implement before... Its really not shaped properly, and generally embedded in the head. (If its not you have other problems!)

or is it a static penetration because the item is casting?

Static penetration sounds... painful. I imagine most people would want to ground any electric penetration devices before use. I can understand why you might think runebreakers are electric though, but wouldn't that imply there should be air gems in the construction process?

I *think* I tested the black mirror and penetration items help, but it has been a while so I'm a bit fuzzy on it.

Now there is some innuendo I wasn't familiar with.

You title a thread "When to penetrate" and you expected something else? If I didn't know better, I'd suspect trolling!

[RadicalTurnip]

I assume the eye is just like the eye of aiming: it doesn't help in penetration itself, just with...aiming...for penetration.

[RadicalTurnip]

Now I mostly want to know if, when I cast "Call Horror" if I need some Penetration...

[Fantomen]

I assume the eye is just like the eye of aiming: it doesn't help in penetration itself, just with...aiming...for penetration.

Yeah, aiming is important. Misguided penetration can be very impopular.

[13lackGu4rd]

ummm, how hard is it to aim it...? you should already have plenty of experience doing it that aiming becomes natural ;)

[Calahan]

I've always advised doing so whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Every hole's a goal! ;)

ummm, how hard is it to aim it...? you should already have plenty of experience doing it that aiming becomes natural ;)
Ah, but even experience doesn't help when an over indulgence of intoxicating liquids (or confusion spell) causes disorientation to a level that results in a huge loss of precision, and with it any hope of achieving a coordinated aim.

[Burnsaber]

Well, when talking about penetration in dom3, When? is just not enough. Who? is just as a crucial question when thinking of "When?", especially if we are following pygs excellent guideline on penetration.

I've always advised doing so whenever the opportunity presents itself.


So what we are trying to achieve is to penetrate as much as possible. Because most penetration effects in dom3 almost always take the guy out of the fight (effects like confusion and unconsciosness are common), it's not advisable to penetrate the same target over and over. Thus you should aim to penetrate as much targets as possible in as short amount of time possible. And different types of targets are more/less difficult to penetrate in dom3. Penetrating elemental king of the earth is pretty difficult for example, so I wouldn't go after it without very special equipment like the rod "Rune Smasher" or the artifact staff "Flailing Hands (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/The_Flailing_Hands)", which grant a bonus for penetration. Also remember that Undead are also harder to penetrate than most mortal units so it's not advisable to go after them unless you really have to.

If you are seeking to penetrate as much as possible, you need to select your targets wisely. Ulmish units are easy to penetrate due to their national trait. If no Ulm nation is present, the "Caveman" independents are also easy to penetrate. Also, in dom3 universe, animals are also easy to penetrate and this also includes the walking apes of the "Bandar Log" nations, if you are into that sort of thing.

Also, oddly enough, wearing the eye of void also makes *you* easier to penetrate, which could prove to be really painful if the tables are turned. Probably has something to do with ties the to tentacled horrors of the void. Good equipment for penetration is also the "rainbow armor" which makes you harder to penetrate and gives you reinvigoration so that you can do more penetration attemps.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist

[elmokki]

I personally find the amazon units most pleasant to penetrate. I don't discriminate though. Like pyg said, you should strive to penetrate whenever possible, so even tentacle monsters and whatever are doable.

Blood slaves are pretty easy to penetrate if you can't penetrate anything else.

[sector24]

Don't forget to wear your armor of virtue or you may accumulate afflictions and some cannot be healed by the faery queen.

[Rookierookie]

the faery queen
Also a prime target for penetration.

[Makinus]

the faery queen
Also a prime target for penetration.

But extremely hard to find in the field, as most players tend to keep her in their castles to be able to use the most of her abilities...

[RadicalTurnip]

Like pyg said, you should strive to penetrate whenever possible, so even tentacle monsters and whatever are doable.

I've always found the tentacle monsters difficult to penetrate, instead, most of my units get penetrated by them instead.

Ulmish units are easy to penetrate due to their national trait.

Unfortunately, I'm playing Ulm...I've lost whole armies to other people's penetration. I just want to fight back.