Apotheosis [Running]

[Kadelake]

Hi! This is a game for new or intermediate players.

Play by email on llamaserver.net (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160) (Be sure to be nice to llamabeast for his work on the server :))

Middle Age
Map: Cradle of Dominions
24h quickhost (Will probably be increased to 48 later in the game)
Max 10 players
Mods: CBM 1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43949), Endgame Diversity (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45056)
Settings: Hall of fame 15, Graphs on
Victory condition: Control the majority of the capitals (Each capital will have a victory point)

Eriu - Kadelake
Oceania - Dectilon
Shinuyama - don_Pablo
C'tis - Nauquan
Arcoscephale - 13lackGu4rd
Jötunheim - Amadamus
Pythium - Numahr
T'ien Ch'i - Greyjoy
R'lyeh - Finalgenesis
Abysia - Verjigorm
Marignon - Greyjoy's friend

[Dectilon]

I'm awful, but I'm in. I'd like to play Oceania if that's alright.

[don_Pablo]

Sign me as Shinuyama, please :)

[Nauquan]

I'm game. C'tis please

[13lackGu4rd]

I'll try Arco

[Amadamus]

I'll take Ermor please

[Amadamus]

Having said that, is there any possibility of considering CBM? it just seems that the majority of the MP games are played with it and well, it would be nice to start learning the CBM game seeing as eventually it will be all we will use.

Up for debate?

+ can we have renaming on?

[Stretch]

CBM also makes a lot more pretender choices viable, and helps balance the nations. I highly recommend it.

[Numahr]

I would like to participate, with Pythium.
I also support using CBM.

[Greyjoy]

I'm intermediate-ish, and see some familiar faces anyway. ...Also, somebody's WILLINGLY playing MA Oceania. My god. You poor, benighted soul.

I'll take T'ien Ch'i. CBM's good, but I'm fine with vanilla too.

[Finalgenesis]

100% noob, R'yleth if that's okay. Also vote for CBM, but fine with clamming.

[Kadelake]

I've never used CBM and there are some things I don't quite like with it. But I'm ok with CBM if everyone else wants to use it :)
If that's the case, what do you say about adding the Endgame Diversity mod (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45056) as well?

Amadamus: Yes, renaming will be on. I wouldn't be able to play without it :)

[Kadelake]

100% noob, R'yleth if that's okay. Also vote for CBM, but fine with clamming.

There are already another underwater nation so it's going to be quite crowded on Cradle of Dominions. There are about 20 water provinces (I don't remember the exact number). How do you and Dectilon feel about having two underwater nations?

I'm intermediate-ish, and see some familiar faces anyway. ...Also, somebody's WILLINGLY playing MA Oceania. My god. You poor, benighted soul.

I'm playing Eriu. Poor, benighted Dectilon isn't alone in playing a nation from the bottom of the barrel :D

[13lackGu4rd]

yes, forgot to mention it, CBM please ;) and yeah, End Game Diversity Mod is also good, it's the next new popular mod which will probably be included in the next CBM patch or so, it just needs more play testing right now, and we're perfect for that :D

[rdonj]

Hey, don't knock MA oceania too hard! Squirrelloid won water total war with them, which was an all water nations game. I think that was with clams though :P

[Amadamus]

End game Summons sounds a winner also!

Thanks Kadelake!

[Finalgenesis]

There are already another underwater nation so it's going to be quite crowded on Cradle of Dominions. There are about 20 water provinces (I don't remember the exact number). How do you and Dectilon feel about having two underwater nations?



I picked R'yleth as I absolutely love the void gate :D I'd be happy to try Bandar Log though should Dectilon prefer.

A vote for end game diversity mod also!

[13lackGu4rd]

actually, 2 UW nations is preferred to 1 Imho. 1 is just asking for trouble as they can take all the seas almost uncontested, than turtle almost indefinitely(especially true in vanilla, much less in CBM).

and yeah, MA R'lyeh is perhaps the best R'lyeh. Void Gate without the insanity and the tons of upkeep choking freespawns. being able to actually recruit those nice Illithids and use them in battle instead of relying on endless hordes of chaff. no need for you to switch to Bandar Log Imho, you'll be fine with R'lyeh and Oceania should give you a run for your money in the UW war.

[Finalgenesis]

actually, 2 UW nations is preferred to 1 Imho. 1 is just asking for trouble as they can take all the seas almost uncontested, than turtle almost indefinitely(especially true in vanilla, much less in CBM).

and yeah, MA R'lyeh is perhaps the best R'lyeh. Void Gate without the insanity and the tons of upkeep choking freespawns. being able to actually recruit those nice Illithids and use them in battle instead of relying on endless hordes of chaff. no need for you to switch to Bandar Log Imho, you'll be fine with R'lyeh and Oceania should give you a run for your money in the UW war.

And keep us UW nations out of your hair for awhile :D

[Nauquan]

[QUOTE=13lackGu4rd;749007]actually, 2 UW nations is preferred to 1 Imho. 1 is just asking for trouble as they can take all the seas almost uncontested, than turtle almost indefinitely(especially true in vanilla, much less in CBM).
QUOTE]

Very true!

[Verjigorm]

May I have the last spot as Ashdod?

I vote for CBM.

I'm lukewarm (barely No) on EGD.

[don_Pablo]

I'd prefer with Endgame Diversity but without CBM

[Amadamus]

Call me a spoil sport Verjigorm, but i vote for a ban on Ashdod. It really just is the most overpowered of all the nations.

[Verjigorm]

Such may be the case in other eras, but in MA? I don't think so... Let us consult the Great Oracle who sayeth:

Mid(68.000000)

MA Pythium : 9.00
MA Shinuyama : 6.00
MA Pangaea : 5.50
MA R'lyeh : 4.50
MA Abysia : 4.50
MA Jotunheim : 4.00
MA Mictlan : 4.00
MA Ulm : 3.33
MA Ermor : 3.00
MA Caelum : 3.00
MA Marignon : 2.00
MA Oceania : 2.00
MA C'tis : 2.00
MA Vanheim : 2.00
Nehekara : 1.50
MA Machaka : 1.33
MA Man : 1.33
MA Ulm Reborn : 1.00
MA Arcoscephale : 1.00
MA Arga Dis : 1.00
MA Ashdod : 1.00
MA Atlantis : 1.00
Itza : 1.00
MA Bandar Log : 1.00
MA Nehekhara : 1.00
MA T'ien Ch'i : 0.50
MA Agartha : 0.50

It appears that your selection, Ermor, has a much higher win rate than Ashdod, and Pythium seems the least balanced. I hold the opinion that Pythium is still the most powerful MA nation, but I would never request that someone relinquish their selection of it. ;)

According to the chart for other eras, only Hinnom has a high win rate, and even that is eclipsed by Sauromatia. Perhaps you are simply intimidated because we're bigger than you? Hwahwahwahwahwa!

[Greyjoy]

One of my friends who just got the game wants to play as Marignon, but it's taking a bit for his forum account to get confirmed.

I'd like to reserve a spot for him.

[Verjigorm]

How can you reserve a spot for someone who is not yet playing when they are all taken? Another option would be to either increase the maximum number of players or change maps and do the same. Since there was no problem getting 10 people, we could quite easily change maps and do 12-14 people...

I would love to play on my map, the Abstract Sky Tower. It's not as pretty as the cradle, but I think it's a pretty fair map, and quite easily adjustable to a Capitol VPs Map.

See here:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45704

[Greyjoy]

Oh. I can't count. Thought there was still a spot.

Edited to add: Whichever people feel like. There'll be another game sometime soon regardless.

[Amadamus]

Ah yes skewed results Verjigorm... the reason Ashdod doesnt feature on those wins there is becasue the general deal is that Ashdod is banned - can't win if it doesn't play.

I think you will find that the general consensus is Ashdod is a game wrecker if played by anyone with a little competence.

Therefore, i move the motion that Ashdod is ommitted from the picks.

And I would rather we stick to the original 10 players. Its a nice map and 10 players is a good number for it.

[Numahr]

By the way, on Pythium being the least balanced, please know that I have only started 1 MP game that is not completed yet. So you can consider that my lack of experience makes it somehow for Pythium's natural strenghths.

[Kadelake]

I think we should let Grayjoys friend join and keep the map. It should work for 11 players as well, especially with two of players underwater.

I'm reluctant to ban any nations. Ashdod is one of the best nation (certainly better then the number of wins in hall of fame make it look like) but there are several other really good nations as well. The game just isn't completely balanced. It's my opinion that it's mostly chance that determines which player turns out to have the best conditions. A lucky starting position and lucky site searching might tip the scale more then the nations advantage.

I guess one of the reasons that Ashdod haven't got more registered wins are because of their fearsome reputation. If people know Ashdod are really strong, they might be more inclined to gang up on them.

[Finalgenesis]

oh btw, is diplomacy in this game binding (agreements) or Machiavellian?

[Amadamus]

I think we should let Grayjoys friend join and keep the map. It should work for 11 players as well, especially with two of players underwater.

I'm reluctant to ban any nations. Ashdod is one of the best nation (certainly better then the number of wins in hall of fame make it look like) but there are several other really good nations as well. The game just isn't completely balanced. It's my opinion that it's mostly chance that determines which player turns out to have the best conditions. A lucky starting position and lucky site searching might tip the scale more then the nations advantage.

I guess one of the reasons that Ashdod haven't got more registered wins are because of their fearsome reputation. If people know Ashdod are really strong, they might be more inclined to gang up on them.

Ok, no probs - was worth a go! :)

Just to be a final pain in the bum Kadelake, can i swap to Jotunheim please? - I can see that shuttling hoards of undead around gets old quick with Ermor...

[Greyjoy]

But with MA, at least you can shuttle them around at 3 mapmove....

[Finalgenesis]

Well Ama, for reference from an opponent's pov I'd rather you don't have the hordes of undead to shuttle with in the first place.

[Amadamus]

But with MA, at least you can shuttle them around at 3 mapmove....

Perhaps - but i'm up to summer year 3 in a trial run and the turns are already taking ages mearly moving bones to the front lines.

As much as i love the idea of Ermor, they are just too much work!

[Kadelake]

Amadamus changed to Jötunheim.
I played Utgård in my first MP game and they where really fun. Be warned though, if you try to optimize blood hunting it will be a lot of work ;)

[Kadelake]

Game created, you can now send in your pretenders :)
Llamaserver FAQ (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160)

[Kadelake]

oh btw, is diplomacy in this game binding (agreements) or Machiavellian?
I noticed your post here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45800) as well.

Hmm, I'll try to give my view on diplomacy. I've never thought much about this before, just done what comes naturally :)

You are free to perform diplomacy over PM or any other way.
You are free to make "backroom deals", spread information and plot with the other players:
"Look how big player X is! Plus he is a really good player and plays nation Y!! We should team up against him before it's too late!!! Let's divide his provinces between us :D"
Trades are binding, you can't agree to a trade and then not deliver your part. (It would actually be kind of stupid not to keep your deal. Who would like to trade with you if they know your not trustworthy?)

About NAPs I'm not sure. I've played three MP games and I don't think I've ever seen anyone violate a NAP. They seem to be respected generally. What do people think? Maybe it would be easier for new players if NAPs where binding?

[Greyjoy]

Well. I, personally, will almost never violate the x-turns warning of a formalized NAP. And yes, Pantokrator help you if you violate trade agreements. But it's probably a good idea to hedge against the former.

[Finalgenesis]

Sounds good, so basically

agreements made in good faith (trade, NAP...etc), no restrictions otherwise. Simple, I like it.

Edit: just saw Grey's post, the reason why I nitpick on this point is whether I need to divert resource to possible betrayal. E.g. If NAPs are binding I can leave border more or less undefended, also less dangerous to extend yourself in other wars, as otherwise people would be tempted to backstab you when you are fully commited on someone.

Thanks though I got a much better feel on diplo now, basically nothing is binding but good faith is expected.

[Verjigorm]

The problem with "in good faith" (and this is why I always stay out of discussions involving pathetic attempts to make people make good on promises made, NAPs, etc...) with the obvious exception of binding trades is this...

Once it is set than no arrangement can be broken, it opens the door to the use of treaty as a weapon. Since you cannot attack me, if I can grab a crucial choke point or a certain land before you (or even take provinces from you that were conquered by barbarians, etc.), I can use the treaty as a weapon against you.

Once treaties of this nature come into play the "in good faith" clause goes into effect with all of its subjective glory....

Player 1: You broke our NAP!!! Ummm!!! I'm telling mommy!!

Player 2: Well, you took my High Temple of the Magii when it fell to Barbarians!

Player 1: So? Our NAP didn't say anything about "reserving provinces"....


Blah, Blah, Blah...
In such situations, both players will feel that they are in the right and both will be able to draw supporters. Yes, the NAP was technically broken, but Player 1 was definitely using it an a douchebag-esque manner, so one could see arguments for the "in good faith" side as well...

If you aren't prepared to deal with discussions of a truly political nature (e.g. in which people might change their mind), you aren't prepared to play Dominions in MP.

That aside, once someone starts frequently breaking treaties based solely on fancy, people will eventually get the idea that the best thing to do is to make the treaty and then kill them as soon as an advantage appears. Turnabout is, of course, fair play. NAPs can be very useful if you abide by the arrangement and don't push it by playing nasty with the letter of the law, but once you go douchebag on either side of the scale like using an NAP to strong arm, stifle expansion, or snag provinces or on the other hand breaking treaties without appropriate notice as defined by said treaty, you end up with a monkey sh__ fight...

[Finalgenesis]

hence the good-faith but non-binding claus. E.g. I wouldn't call someone pulling douche-bag move using the letter of the agreement as good faith and would happily backstab them. Being polite to the rude is not being polite, it's just being weak, same applies to excercising good faith to a Machevelli. (I'm not bashing on Machy style, as I do condone many of its value and tactics!)

I tend to otherwise treat good faith with good faith though (I find it hard to backstab someone who has been a good ally, but alas, all good things must end but I think I'd follow the declaration clause in a NAP rather then surprise attack someone who allied in good faith), a weakness I'm sure in some cases but also an advantage in many others.

Maybe there's an evil machy in me somewhere I just haven't discovered yet :D

[Kadelake]

There are some trouble with the llamaserver. It seems like we might have to wait a few days to start the game.

[Verjigorm]

Do I have to re-upload?

[Amadamus]

Thanks for the swap Kadelake.

Could someone please post when its cool to upload?

[Finalgenesis]

The cradle map seems to be uploaded to the server, I think the game can be (re)made now.

[SplendidTuesday]

There isn't still room in this, is there?

[Finalgenesis]

the game itself isn't up yet (Since the wipe on Friday), the map is though, so if I'm getting this right Kade can [re]create the game now when he gets on.

[Kadelake]

SplendidTuesday: I'm afraid the game is full :(
What do the rest think? Should we allow another player or will it be too crowded on Cradle of Dominions?

Game is up again! :)
It seems like most the problems with the servers have been fixed. I've re-created the game as Apotheosis3. You will have to re-upload your pretenders.

[Kadelake]

By the way, what happened to Greyjoys friend? I haven't seen him post here.

[Amadamus]

i think 11 players is a fair number for this map and gives a decent opportunity of everyone getting a reasonable start... so my vote would say full - sorry SplendidTuesday

[Finalgenesis]

Playing the devil's advocate:

Lands: 199 land + 22 sea (3 are landlocked, so 19 for UW nations)
players: 9 land + 2 sea

Average: 22 land province per land nation, 9.5 sea province for sea nation

I would love to see another land player ;-)

[Amadamus]

Playing the devil's advocate:

Lands: 199 land + 22 sea (3 are landlocked, so 19 for UW nations)
players: 9 land + 2 sea

Average: 22 land province per land nation, 9.5 sea province for sea nation

I would love to see another land player ;-)

Yes, but look at the map - there are vast areas of wasteland and low pop provinces.

Anyway, what land nation is going into the water early? The water nations get it all to themselves. The land provinces will be contested by many more players.

The map designer says the map is good for 8-10 players... why go 12?

[Finalgenesis]

Playing the devil's advocate:

Lands: 199 land + 22 sea (3 are landlocked, so 19 for UW nations)
players: 9 land + 2 sea

Average: 22 land province per land nation, 9.5 sea province for sea nation

I would love to see another land player ;-)

Yes, but look at the map - there are vast areas of wasteland and low pop provinces.

Anyway, what land nation is going into the water early? The water nations get it all to themselves. The land provinces will be contested by many more players.

The map designer says the map is good for 8-10 players... why go 12?

Ah ah, but ocean isn't exactly high pop either, not to mention the city province and the 2-3x more gem income, in fact waste gives much higher chance of gem income.

Also we are getting ocean to ourselves yeah, oceania + R'yleth, you make it sound like an advantage to start in a deathmatch arena 1v1. Not early killing the other UW nation isn't doable as our 9.5 province will kill us in the mid-long run compared to a 22 avg province gold and gem income of your average land nation.

CBM makes water entry easier, and we'll on average be bordered on by many more teams then an average land nation will be with the water smack in the middle. Yes water is a barrier, but not so much as it'd be in vanilla, together with the fact that us UW nations will on average be much weaker and shaky NAP at best. I won't go into the multiple likely scenarios during mid and late game.

Now make no mistake, I actually love a tight spot and in fact I knew all this before I picked R'yleth, it makes for a tougher exciting game and I deliberately picked a 2nd UW due to this (and my love for R'yleth of course!). Diplomacy is gonna be real interesting for this one :up: But to suggest that the above situation is an advantage... :eek:

Either way I'm fine with 11 or 12 player, one extra nation won't make a difference to me. The designer suggested 8-10, I don't see why we go 11, or 12, or why the suggested limit matters at all?

[13lackGu4rd]

Verjigorm, nice propaganda about Ashdod. pulling off stats when commonly banned nations are involved is pure propaganda in my book. for a relatively experienced players such as yourself to be wanting to play Ashdod is nothing short of hypocrisy Imho, especially when this game is generally newbie friendly, not an expert's game. P.S Pythium isn't the strongest MA nation barring Ashdod, Jotunheim is probably stronger, and a few other nations are certainly up there with them. MA is probably the most balanced era of all 3 due to the lack of real blood nations and ridiculous blesses(still possible of course but EA dominates MA in that regard).

Finalgenesis, starting in a death match isn't as bad as you make it sound. it's kill or be killed for Oceania/R'lyeh but whoever wins gains a massive advantage. a much larger advantage than a land nation gets for rushing and destroying another land nation.

oh yeah and if you really don't want a death match you can avoid it, both Oceania and R'lyeh can enter the land pretty well, and in CBM Amulet of the Fish only requires W1 which all water nations have access to, so bringing aquatic commanders(say thugs, mages, etc) onto land is easy. aquatic troops are more problematic, but both R'lyeh and Oceania have a good selection of amphibious troops, so that isn't a problem either...

also water nations have a massive edge as far as gem economy goes, thanks to Voice of Tiamat which is a staple for any UW nation. makes your gem income sky rocket much faster than land nations, and with all the oceans to yourself(if you got into the death match and won) you maintain a massive lead.

oh yeah, and while in CBM entering the water isn't as hard as it used to be for land nations, they still suffer from the poor amphibian trait and of course from research paths that are useful above the seas for not below them(most of the Evocation line for example).

yes being UW also has its disadvantages, but it's not as black as you're trying to make it seem, I've simply showed a lot of the white to counter your blackness. the truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle...



so anyway, are we decided on CBM+EGD? and I must strongly encourage you to ban Ashdod, and especially not let a relatively experienced player as Verjigorm take it... if you insist on not banning them than give them to a first timer in MP or something, otherwise ban. it's sad that Verjigorm's propaganda worked on you so well, congratulations Verjigorm. but for me, now I know more who I'm dealing with(or well, against) and I'll keep that in mind for the future, your reputation already precedes you, this is just a small addition ;)

and 1 last thing for this long post, diplomacy. binding diplomacy is a nice concept, but in the end if someone breaks a diplomatic agreement there's not much you can do about it to enforce this rule besides stopping the game or some other ridiculously extreme move. now, this concept works in games where people know each other and have a certain degree of trust, such as the Gentleman's game that was around(not sure if it's finished yet or not). here we obviously don't know each other that much, and all these talks on good faith clauses and whatnot says a lot about the level of trust between the players in this game, almost non existent, as is expected with unknowns...

otherwise Machiavellian is the default because there's no need for unnecessary enforcement. however even in Machiavellian diplomacy, people who break NAPs are hurting their reputation, and others will know not to trust them in future games, so there's always a trade off. now, there are games that specifically encourage backstabbing, so in those it's more acceptable to well, backstab, but in normal Machiavellian games there's still a pretty large incentive to keep up to your word.

[SplendidTuesday]

If Greyjoy's friend doesn't show up, may I take his spot?

Otherwise, I'm fine with this being full.

[Amadamus]

Ah ah, but ocean isn't exactly high pop either, not to mention the city province and the 2-3x more gem income, in fact waste gives much higher chance of gem income.

Also we are getting ocean to ourselves yeah, oceania + R'yleth, you make it sound like an advantage to start in a deathmatch arena 1v1. Not early killing the other UW nation isn't doable as our 9.5 province will kill us in the mid-long run compared to a 22 avg province gold and gem income of your average land nation.

CBM makes water entry easier, and we'll on average be bordered on by many more teams then an average land nation will be with the water smack in the middle. Yes water is a barrier, but not so much as it'd be in vanilla, together with the fact that us UW nations will on average be much weaker and shaky NAP at best. I won't go into the multiple likely scenarios during mid and late game.

Now make no mistake, I actually love a tight spot and in fact I knew all this before I picked R'yleth, it makes for a tougher exciting game and I deliberately picked a 2nd UW due to this (and my love for R'yleth of course!). Diplomacy is gonna be real interesting for this one :up: But to suggest that the above situation is an advantage... :eek:

Either way I'm fine with 11 or 12 player, one extra nation won't make a difference to me. The designer suggested 8-10, I don't see why we go 11, or 12, or why the suggested limit matters at all?

Either of the water nations will rush the other resulting in a nice inaccessible domain for the winner. If you think a land nation is going to be gearing up for an initial assault into the water you are dreaming. Who in their right mind is going to go into the sea when there are hostiles on land to contend with first?

And the limit matters because it gives all starters a shot at making it to the mid game. Why even bother playing if there is a possibility due to a lack of good capital sites that several of your neighbouring provinces have no resources and < 2000 pop?

The game was advertised as an MA romp with 10 players on the Cradle map. I signed up for that... Now its 11 well ok, but not 12 - not on this map. Someone will end up with a crap start which is unnecessary if the nation limit is observed.

[Amadamus]

Actually, I think Kadelake should make the call - democracy is rubbish for getting things done.

[Finalgenesis]

Yeah one of the things with these MP games is that the players stays around after the game ends, which means rep matters and being too evil will haunt you in the long term. Of course, "if you can't enforce it then don't make it a rule" is always a good, when I say good faith non-binding, I guess the good faith part is unneeded and a bit misleading, let actual repercussions do the talking!

The way I see the UW deathmatch situation is that I don't see neither side rolling up the other quickly unless they get some horrendous luck, and likely the ocean won't be unified until midgame or so at the earliest, thats a lot of turns where you have you are locked in mortal combat with an inherent lower income / gem and thereby research. Even assuming all land nations are fighting it out in death matches, they are doing so with avg 22 provinces apiece.

I would conjecture also that there is a lot of interest from land not to see ocean unified and thereby intervene (god knows I would if I see 2 wounded small fish duking it out) , though only experience can tell, maybe they'll be more preoccupied with Ashod's power or something. Another thing is if you own the whole ocean (or just half for that matter), your looking at bordering 6-8 nations from as the water province placement, though this admittedly could be an advantage (a tough one), whereas an average sized land nation will likely border 3-4 nations or so, with a larger income and potential gem generation.

Getting to land without securing the ocean seems unfeastible to me, land nations will want to kick you in and the other UW nation will make you regret diverting too resource shore side.

Now as a disclaimer, all these things I've laid out are partly to serve as a backdrop for my diplomacy effort in-game (I'm poor, weak and locked in mortal combat, you can drop your guard around me! :D), and I've certainly thought out some strategies suited for my situation. In fact, I derive a lot of enjoyment from doing analysis and work out various scenarios and their strategies, the bleaker it seems the more fun it is to plan and survive, so Blackguard stop popping my bubble of black :angel I just hope I get to the late game at this point!

[13lackGu4rd]

I'm popping your bubble because you're already using your own propaganda before the game even begun, and are trying to use it to affect pregame decisions(such as the number of players in the game).

now, propaganda aside, you chose to be an UW nation, you know what you get from it. don't try to squeeze hidden advantages from game settings due to playing what you chose to play...

[Amadamus]

I'm popping your bubble because you're already using your own propaganda before the game even begun, and are trying to use it to affect pregame decisions(such as the number of players in the game).

now, propaganda aside, you chose to be an UW nation, you know what you get from it. don't try to squeeze hidden advantages from game settings due to playing what you chose to play...

Indeed!

Hence my reasoning that Kakelake make the decisions. I'm all for scheming and manipulation, but in game - not in an attempt to skew the setup to your benefit. 10/10 for trying though FG!

Edit to add: The game is up on the server now for 11 players so the debate is academic...

[Finalgenesis]

I'm popping your bubble because you're already using your own propaganda before the game even begun, and are trying to use it to affect pregame decisions(such as the number of players in the game).

now, propaganda aside, you chose to be an UW nation, you know what you get from it. don't try to squeeze hidden advantages from game settings due to playing what you chose to play...

Wow, that's some heavy popping my friend. I fear I have no choice but to defend myself. Allow me to disagree with you:

- Influencing events for my gain? Sure, If you’re a player in the game I don’t see why your not allowed to bring relevant information to people's attention for your gain. And I see it all the time, ex. Asking for Ashod not to be in a game (as valid as it may be); suggesting a 2nd UW nation to be allowed as a single UW is more powerful/annoying; doing counter-propaganda ...etc, frankly I think at least for propaganda and counter propaganda you can wring some good fun out of it at least. I suppose I can sort of see how this is a grey area, but I'm not really seeing this clear line that your implying.

- I've never complained about my starting circumstances as your saying, in fact I thought I made it clear, no, emphasized that I wanted the nation precisely because of it. Whine? Never! Manipulate events for my benefit? Of course! (I'm no saint)

- Honestly, as I've said before, the 11 or 12 player deal didn't really mattered to me, though I won't deny that I'd accept a 12 ppl game with a smile. I was more interested in getting my analysis of the UW nations situation out for propaganda value in diplomacy at game start. (Though it's an honest analysis on my part, I just might as well wring some propaganda value out of it)

- If anything, I am closer to raising honest analysis to give my opening diplomacy more room when the game start. Let me see if I understand this correctly, the "Do not-s" that you are pointing out is that I'm doing this before the game starts?

-In a way, all those post asking for strats and so forth from players about to start MP games are in the same vein as my analysis here. I see the same MP game participants join the thread and work with the post alongside the poster, and I'd laugh if someone told me there's no scheming and tactical maneuvering in those post, the difference is perhaps I just come right out and say it.

Maybe I was misreading your the tone from your post and your really just playing along through counter-propaganda, if so I apologize, otherwise though I really must beg to differ.

Honestly I'm just trying to have fun and thought I have done it in an acceptable manner as outlined above. I will hereby thank Amadamus for being a good sport and playing along :D Yes I tried, maybe I tried too hard?

[Amadamus]

Finalgenesis, i pretty much read it as a counter to your spin - truth is irrelevant, all that really matters is how it looks to the punters...

Interesting session of banter however. Looking forward to the game and what may become of us all!

Enjoy all those gems you farm out of the oceans whilst we land types squabble over the ownership of poor value provinces.

[Finalgenesis]

And to counter your riposte, I sayeth "Enjoy shooting two fish in a barrel!"

Looking forward to it!

[13lackGu4rd]

Finalgenesis, if only all the information you presented was correct, truthful and objective than I would have laid it to rest. however you didn't even make an attempt to try, you simple chose to present the weaknesses of your UW position without any of its strengths, and in return asked for more land players so we'll be on more "even grounds". this statement is pure propaganda and is the main reason I started bursting your bubble. moreover, pregame diplomacy is perhaps the lowest you can go as far as propaganda spreading goes, we didn't even start for crying out loud!

now, since you insist, I'll give you some of your UW position's strengths, in your face, as counter propaganda. so, here we go:
1. free forts via pretty common nature sites UW, which both MA Oceania and R'lyeh can search right from the start.
2. Voice of Tiamat is the best remote site searching spell in the game!
3. once(if) the death match is over it's hard for any land nation to really contest the oceans due to your obvious superiority in UW battles and focused research(for the death match), while land nations focus their research elsewhere.
4. killing 1 opponent(your UW neighbor) makes your position so much stronger than a land nation killing even 2-3 of his neighbors(in the early game that is).
5. your ability to harass land powers is much greater than the land power's ability to harass you UW.

I hope this is enough for now, I could dig up more, and nation specific too, if you insist. now with your propaganda and my counter propaganda to you, everyone should be able to see the real picture and I expect people to know the UW's nations strengths and weaknesses even before all this mess...

now, lets see how many players we'll have playing, and what mods we'll use if any(CBM, EGD, vanilla), the sooner we know this information the sooner we can all start testing our pretender choices until we find the pretender we're happy with, so we can finally get this game going. now lets stop with all this pregame bull**** and wait for the game to actually start!

[Kadelake]

The game is (re)-created as Apotheosis3. Mods: CBM 1.6, EGD 1.4. We'll keep the 11 player maximum. Diplomacy is not enforced. Ashdod is allowed.

SplendidTuesday: Sorry, the game is full right now. If a spot becomes free for some reason I'll send you a PM.

Greyjoy's friend: I noticed that you've uploaded you pretender. Please get your forum account working and post something here. I can't let you join otherwise.

[Finalgenesis]

Finalgenesis, if only all the information you presented was correct, truthful and objective than I would have laid it to rest. however you didn't even make an attempt to try, you simple chose to present the weaknesses of your UW position without any of its strengths, and in return asked for more land players so we'll be on more "even grounds". this statement is pure propaganda and is the main reason I started bursting your bubble. moreover, pregame diplomacy is perhaps the lowest you can go as far as propaganda spreading goes, we didn't even start for crying out loud!

now, since you insist, I'll give you some of your UW position's strengths, in your face, as counter propaganda. so, here we go:
1. free forts via pretty common nature sites UW, which both MA Oceania and R'lyeh can search right from the start.
2. Voice of Tiamat is the best remote site searching spell in the game!
3. once(if) the death match is over it's hard for any land nation to really contest the oceans due to your obvious superiority in UW battles and focused research(for the death match), while land nations focus their research elsewhere.
4. killing 1 opponent(your UW neighbor) makes your position so much stronger than a land nation killing even 2-3 of his neighbors(in the early game that is).
5. your ability to harass land powers is much greater than the land power's ability to harass you UW.

I hope this is enough for now, I could dig up more, and nation specific too, if you insist. now with your propaganda and my counter propaganda to you, everyone should be able to see the real picture and I expect people to know the UW's nations strengths and weaknesses even before all this mess...

now, lets see how many players we'll have playing, and what mods we'll use if any(CBM, EGD, vanilla), the sooner we know this information the sooner we can all start testing our pretender choices until we find the pretender we're happy with, so we can finally get this game going. now lets stop with all this pregame bull**** and wait for the game to actually start!

Well, I must apologize that my analysis was not "correct, truthful and objective" to your brand of truth. I did thought it was a honest summation on the predicaments I face, I didn't quite expect a full comprehensive laundry list breakdown of the pros and cons to be required. Do people really want me to spell out that MA R'yleth can do mind-hunts, have stealth astral mage assassins, that water provinces tend to have easier indies ...etc? If you would like, I certainly wouldn't mind you filling in the whole Objective truths for me, after all, you are perfectly objective and incapable of pure propaganda if I'm reading you right.

In the context of counter-propaganda I'd take it like a champ, but your implication of that I was "dirty" and "low" outside of the context of the game just made me laugh. For the sake of civility I won't quote any hypocrisy I spotted unless, of course, you insist.

Hmmm well... you may certainly drop your pregame bullpoop if you like, I don't mind. I would object to you enforcing your special brand of saintly justice on me though. In fact, just let me enjoy my "bullpoop" with other willing participants instead of picking it up and smearing yourself with it. You know, it'll make you dirty, why subject yourself to it? :eek:

Well it's gotten to that point :doh:, I think we can agree we have divergent opinions on the issue and abandon further discourse on this matter, it is obvious neither of use will change our mind and further discussions would be... counter-productive.

[Verjigorm]

Fine, fine. That's 2 against Ashdod, so if you will permit me to switch, I'll take...

Abysia

instead.

[Kadelake]

Please calm down everyone. Diplomacy and propaganda are best kept until the game start.

I think it's high time we get the game going. I'll PM everyone who haven't joined and tell them they can upload their pretenders now :)

As for starting positions... You can never count on them being fair, even with fewer players. Some people will draw the short straw. Happened to me last game I played, I was stuck in the middle of a swamp, surrounded by wasteland on one side and Lanka on the other. Kind of thematic for Sauromatia but it still sucked :p
So what I'm trying to say is: try not to get angry at a bad starting position.

[Kadelake]

Abysia

Do as you like. I'm ok with Ashdod as well.

[Verjigorm]

Oh, and for the record Mr. Blackguard, as to my experience, it is primarily in Dominions 2. ^_^

This is my 4th MP game, my first 3 are Countdown, Nubash, and Stackers respectively. Stackers is winding down for me, I'm getting creamed as MA Man vs. Jotes and Bandar, so I picked this one up.

I have yet to complete an MP game, so that would mean that I am a noob. I have a natural aptitude toward strategy games which should not necessarily translate into experience, but I agree with you about Ashdod after testing them and I was considering switching anyway. I have never played as Ashdod before, but I just can't get over the cool factor of all the dudes. Unfortunately, a dab of Alteration and a rush into Construction makes Ashdod almost insurmountable... and those undead giants...

Oh my god Thug...

Anyway, I hope you shall be gracious enough to let me tweak my Abysia pretender. It won't be long and I'll probably be ready by the time everyone else is anyway. ^_^

[Verjigorm]

I take it that the game is now named "Apotheosis3"?

[Kadelake]

Yes, due to some server problems :)

[Kadelake]

Game started, good luck everyone! :)

[Amadamus]

luck is good! :) you too!

[Verjigorm]

Request for Extension

I am going camping this weekend Friday, June 25th through Sunday, June 27th. I will be back Sunday Evening, and I am in the CDT Time Zone (GMT - 5 in Summer). I would prefer a weekend extension, but if you want to go through the hassle of changing around settings so that I can get a sub for 2 turns, that's up to you. I can probably get a sub very easily, but there's no way I'm giving out my e-mail account info to anyone under any circumstances.

Anyway... Let me know what you want to do. If you give the extension, it should start Friday afternoon. I would say setting it on 72 hour quick-host with the timer starting Friday afternoon would be appropriate if you're going for the extension. If you want a weekend sub, let me know.

[Nauquan]

Ha! Is that a record for the earlyest extension request? ;)

I'm OK with the extension request - no sub this early.

[Finalgenesis]

I suppose I could use this time to do some prelim diplo, if only to establish communication and some vague understanding.

[13lackGu4rd]

I think we should end the first turn(no idea why llamaserver says it hosts on Friday, should be 24 hour turns, shouldn't it...?) so than we can extend the second turn until Sunday evening/Monday morning for Verjigorm.

[Verjigorm]

Well, relative to my other current matches, I've gone 54, 64, and 39 turns without requesting a vacation, so... I'm kinda due for one. Of course, this one just started, so...

It'll be fun to be without Internet for a little bit. ;)

Maybe I'll bust out the Magic the Gathering cards....

[Kadelake]

Bring a laptop with a mobile internet connection. That's what I'll do this weekend :D Ok, I'll extend the turn over the weekend. It's probably only 2 turns anyway.

Regarding extensions and subs:I prefer temporary subs over extensions. Just send sub's email to me and I'll change the settings, it's not much of a hassle. Extensions are possible as well, but if you know someone who can fill in it would be best.

13lackGu4rd: Yes, I also noticed the long hosting time. I assume the first turn is longer in case someone didn't notice that the game has started. It's on quickhost so it won't matter much. Hopefully we will get two turns done before Verjigorm leaves.

[Verjigorm]

lol! I'm not buying a cellular internet device with a contract just to play Dom3 for one weekend... If I already had one, though, I'd use it (and, no, I don't have a tethering option either).

[Kadelake]

I suspected as much :D

[Verjigorm]

River is flooded! I may be Internet enabled this weekend... I'll update tomorrow when I know more.

[Verjigorm]

Tien Chi appears to be in danger of staleing on turn 1? Any ideas?

[Finalgenesis]

Ask SplendidTuesday whether he is interested with subbing (or possible full replacement if Greyjoy doesn't come back)?

[Greyjoy]

Nah, I'm here. I'm just a procrastinating schmuck.

[Finalgenesis]

Good to know you haven't left us Grey!

Btw, I just found out that the score table on llama server is very informative and better then score graph in game in some cases, in case you're as noob as I am:

http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=Apotheosis3

Having never used MA Pythium, I didn't know their capital site gave 8 gems a turn @@. It's interesting seeing how high people ramp up their tax on T1, I may have to experiment with this strategy hmmm...

Learning quite a bit just looking at the score table.

[Verjigorm]

Your early turn tax ramp depends on the map speed and number of units you start the game with. It's usually between 120 and 140, though I'm sure there are people who go higher. The early patrol can last generally from 1 to 3 turns depending on how high Strength of Independents has been set and how squishy your initial troops are.


If you take an Awake Keeper of the Bridge, you can get some serious early money boost.

[Finalgenesis]

Yeah my standard tax ramp so far is only 120% - 140% depending on my initial troops (higher for caelum), never thought of 200% as a shot booster which I'll have to experiment with.

I'd be curious to see how fast an expansion boost Pythium gets from it, and even more curious how he mitigates the subsequent gold income hit from all that unrest.

Keeper of the bridge option sounds very cool on tax ramp patrol, didn't thought of that! I wonder how big an effect lady love has...

Edit: just tested and she's amazing, she can keep a 200% tax rate stable at 10-20 unrest for turns on end just by being there.

[Finalgenesis]

Well it seems like we have 3 days or so before the next turn will process.

I might as well do some diplomacy and sit in the forum chat channel while I'm writing em all up, if anyone would like to discuss vague diplomacy (at this point of the game) or just shoot the breeze, feel free to drop in.

[13lackGu4rd]

no point to discuss diplomacy this early, before we even know who our neighbors are... heck, even trading offers are too early as we're just in turn 2, so nobody is even close to construction2(not to mention 4) even if they're rushing construction research, unless they took an awake rainbow to rush research, but in that case I doubt construction would be the research target...

[Finalgenesis]

Diplomacy too vague this early on for true efficacy? I agree, hence my qualifier in previous post.

Completely useless? I disagree

1 example: early diplomacy between R'yleth <> Oceania would definitely not be pointless.

I'd actually enjoy discussing the things you can do with vague early diplomacy and its limitation, though perhaps either after the game or with people not in this MP game.

[Greyjoy]

Pushing all-bands diplomacy is *exhausting*, especially with limited intel as per Dom3. Even at my best to date I've stuck to threadposts and those within intel distance. (Mostly.)

[Kadelake]

I'm having some trouble with my turn file :(
It arrives corrupted and requesting a resend doesn't seem to fix it. I've contacted llamabeast to see if he can fix it.

[Finalgenesis]

You need an extension? I won't mind at all seeing I may possibly stale this turn as it's looking like an all nighter at office...

[Kadelake]

I don't know. I haven't heard from llamabeast yet. Contact me if you need an extenstion.

It's possible that the turn file is corrupted even on the server. Then I guess the only alternatives are to roll back the turn or accept a stale :(

[13lackGu4rd]

try to delete the 2h file than redownload it from the mail. it usually worked for me when I had corrupt files.

[Finalgenesis]

I humbly request an extension for a day, there is no chance for me make it home tonight. I've pmed you also Kad.

My apologies in advance to everyone.

[Kadelake]

Thanks for the tip, Blackguard. Sadly it didn't work.
I've extended the turn 24h.

[Finalgenesis]

Thank you.

[Kadelake]

The problem with my turn file is solved! :)
It worked fine when llamabeast sent me the file manually.

[Numahr]

I had a little computer problem. So:
- Can anyone share with me the 1.04 version of end of game diversity ? The public version is now 1.1 and I need to reinstall it to play.
- Can a delay be planned in case finding it takes more time than planned?
Thanks

EDIT: Issue solved

[Finalgenesis]

Hmmmm just something that's bothering me:

I think it would enhance the game experience for us to keep in mind that we are playing it as a game and have fun, which I'm sure most of us are.

Taking it personal and attacking another person with real life allegations and insults should be a no no, and will just drag the game down for everyone else.

RP, deal and wheel, whatever, but don't take it to the personal level. Just sayin'.

[Verjigorm]

I find that attempting to interfere or control people's personal conduct in a forum or multi-player attempt is generally futile and pointless. ;)

You worry about you.

[Finalgenesis]

A post may not change another person's conduct I suppose.

I'd worry about me only if it didn't actually happened, and well, if it happened to cut down on these things, I might not have wasted my time! (A long shot I'll admit)

[Numahr]

By the way, I wanted to share some sad news with you. The death of Shinnumaya's false God ;)

It was a really sad scene to see this proud and reckless Wyrm become prisoner of gladiators' nets and get stabbed to death by anonymous young soldiers, while Pythium's populace were rejoicing from the city walls like if watching a good gladiator's show...

RIP

[Verjigorm]

Is it a pathless Wyrm?

Pathless Wyrms are designed to be revived using Call God and used repeatedly. They frequently take Awe.

If this was the case, you'll probably see him again.

[Kadelake]

Did you run in to each other by accident? Or is there a Pythium-Shinuyama war raging already?

[Finalgenesis]

looking at the score chart, looks like they went at it early

[Kadelake]

Yes, really early. I just noticed it myself.
It's been very quiet though. Does anyone have any interesting news from the war?

[don_Pablo]

I was attacked by Pythium on turn 4.
That was very sad news because since then a lot of resourses are spent on this ill-timed war.

[Numahr]

Don Pablo, please check your PMs...

[Verjigorm]

I don't generally go for the "Early Rush" because it has a tendency to gimp your early research and expansion. The "path of least resistance" is generally the best way to go when you're looking to maximize outcomes, and is also the natural tendency of human civilization. People will generally take open land before they take occupied land because it costs less to do so. In fact, they will only take occupied land (as a function of natural population growth) when they need it to sustain/grow their society.

In Dominions, however, there are strategies that utilize early war as a basic strategy--generally these are bless nations. MA Pythium is not a Bless nation. In fact, they don't have any good sacreds until late game which makes a bless strategy a poor choice. A wyrm pretender attack on any nation seems a bit reckless considering the extreme loss of hps in enemy territory--SC pretenders generally take a defensive posture wrt other nations and are not carelessly thrown into enemy territory where they usually die (which is what happened here). A pathless wyrm can be used in this way, but even though such a beast can be recalled easily by a nation with good priests such as Pythium, there is an inherent cost in Castle-Turns for the necessary priest production and takes priest-mages off of research and puts them on Call duty which costs research turns.

In general, early wars result in degradation of the defensive capabilities of both nations. The defending nation usually gets an advantage as long as the playing field is level (i.e. no bless troops) because the path of attack is known and intelligence in enemy territory is generally limited early on, so unless a nation is built from the start to use a rush strategy, it usually doesn't pan out for the attacker in the long game. Rushes are powerful in 1v1's but in MP, you watch the non-aggressive nations grow strong as they are not using up resources on early wars. Then when your war is finally over, you find that your growth acceleration is off (because it's much harder to capture and keep enemy territory than it is to capture indie territory, and you will probably need to deploy or utilize mages in tasks other than research) and there is little hope of catching up.

Of course, to each his own. Loss of an SC pretender in the first year is crippling to expansion though especially considering how much they cost. The next question is... With Pythium weakened, who will be the nation who possesses their gem-encrusted capitol? With an alliance arrayed against them... it is doubtful they will survive even a 2 on 1 without their pretender.

[Finalgenesis]

Well it is likely they have signed a NAP at this point. For it not to stop here would likely mean a personal vendentta, e.g. too much blood have been spilled. Seems from Numahr's post they have some sort of ceasefire lined up though.

[don_Pablo]

I have a trouble.
I can't reach my home computer till tomorrow.
I have another Dom3 but there's no EDM1_04 and I can't find where to d/l it. (only v1.1 available)

please postpone hosting for 24h or stick here the version of EDM we use.

[Kadelake]

I'll do both :D
I've added the mods as attachments to the first post so that they'll be easy too find if someone needs them.

[Verjigorm]

Extension Request

That extension I requested earlier and canceled is needed now. The camping trip was postponed due to flooding, but this weekend it's all good, so I will be Internet free from Friday afternoon, July 9th through Sunday afternoon, July 11th.

[Finalgenesis]

Just double checking, once a nation has 6 VP they will have won? I better keep a close eye on that score table...

[Kadelake]

Turn extended. Have a nice trip :)

Yes, the game will end as soon as someone has 6VP

[13lackGu4rd]

going out of town tomorrow, until the weekend than again next week. since I'm pretty much dead I've just set myself to AI and let R'lyeh and Jotunheim finish me off completely, you guys already got my cap and most provinces anyway...

would have fought until the very end, but there's no point for you guys to delay the game for me, especially in a very much dead position. not much point getting a sub at this point either, so I just put it as AI.

have fun with this game y'all, and may the winner take all the spoils :D

[Nauquan]

Who is "Greyjoy's friend"? I feel the need for some diplomacy.:)

[Dectilon]

Pish-tosh! Kraky is the friend of all, it's just more or less obvious. If people would just talk to him they'd realize how cuddly he actually is :(

[Finalgenesis]

I do so love octopus myself, they make wonderful sashimi and complements the table top so very well.

Perhaps you can have him drop by for a quick "talk"? I would love to get to know Kraky very, very well.

[Nauquan]

There is something very wrong about a game where one observes a giant squid riding a magic carpet.

[Dectilon]

I think you mean something right. Have you ever seen something as majestic in your life? I think not!

[Nauquan]

I can imagine that it would have been a short, but glorious sight before I died. I imagine it would be something like the alien war machines in the Tom Cruise version of War of the Worlds.

[Dectilon]

The difference there is that Kraky has an amulet that protects him from the harmful atmosphere! If only the aliens had had such foresight.

[Finalgenesis]

Offering 15 gems in any combination of earth and nature for a hammer.

[Kadelake]

I should be able to help you :)

[Finalgenesis]

Trading astral or nature gem for earth gems! I need up to 20.

[Kadelake]

Greyjoy staled last turn and still haven't sent in this turn :(
It looks like we might have to extend the turn while we look for a sub.

[Kadelake]

On second though the chance of finding a sub might not be very high. What do the rest of you think about setting tien chi to AI if greyjoy doesn't show up?

[Finalgenesis]

If he stales this turn again, I say post for a sub and if none shows up near turn end, switch him to AI.

[Greyjoy]

I had a tricky couple of days there. My apologies.

[Kadelake]

Welcome back!

[Numahr]

Dear admin and all,

I submitted turn 28 but I may have delays for the next one (or not, depending on the internet connection where I am going). So please, if you don't see my turn uploaded, extend the time for submission of turn 29 until sunday 25/8 evening by GMT+1 time.

Thanks in advance for your understanding

Numahr

[don_Pablo]

Well,
I enjoyed a lot with my desperate but interesting war with TC.
But it's too much being attacked again by Pythium.
I feel our peace and deal went down the drain.
Good luck to all the rest!
Shinuyama is switched to AI...

[Amadamus]

Yes, Pythium are expanding rather quickly. They are well placed to attack in any direction.

[Kadelake]

Really sorry so see you go AI don Pablo. I'm impressed with how you managed to beat back Tien Chi. I'd love to hear how you managed to do it. :)

Is there any chance that you'd reconsider and try to stay in the game?

[Kadelake]

Hosting set to 96h until next week by the way.

[Kadelake]

It seems like everyone have sent in their turns except Tien Chi and Abyssia. Since it looks like both nations are pretty close to being defeated I'll set them to AI unless the players turn up before tomorrow.

[Verjigorm]

It seems like everyone have sent in their turns except Tien Chi and Abyssia. Since it looks like both nations are pretty close to being defeated I'll set them to AI unless the players turn up before tomorrow.

I missed a turn? The last one I see in my e-mail was 29, and I was sure I submitted it... Maybe I forgot to upload it.. Yep... According to my sent items, I never sent the response turn. PLEASE do not set me on AI.

[Kadelake]

Good to see that you're still in the game :)

Tien Chi staled last turn (actually they staled three out of the last four turns) and he's still not sent in this turn. So I'm setting him AI.

[Kadelake]

Actually, it turns out I can't set Tien Chi to AI since Greyjoy has password protected his pretender.

[Numahr]

Sorry it is only 2 hours left before hosting, but I have to ask for an extansion. I was cut off from the internet until now and there is no way I can do my turn as I am at work now.

24 hours would be perfect, although I think I can do it in less.

An era of intensive travels is over and i should not have constraints from now on until September at least.

[Kadelake]

I noticed it just in time :)
Extended 24h

[Numahr]

Game status says:
Next turn due: 00:00 GMT on Thursday January 1st

I hope every thing is OK

[Kadelake]

It seems like the llamaserver is feeling ill. It hasn't updated any game since 04:15.

[Amadamus]

Any chance of a 24hr extension please? Bit pressed for time today! Thanks.

[Kadelake]

Turn extended!

[Amadamus]

Turn extended!

Thanks champ! :up:

[Numahr]

What do you guys think about extending host delays to 48 hours? It is getting quite busy, we are already turn 34 after all...

[Verjigorm]

As of this turn I control 0 provinces and have been eliminated. Thanks for the game, have fun!

[Nauquan]

I support extending the turns.

[Kadelake]

Good luck in your next game, Verigorm!

Ok, I'll extend the hosting to 48 hours :)

Time for a delay again:
Dectilon told me he'll be away until sunday. Which suits me quite fine since I'll be leaving on a short holiday tomorrow and will be gone until monday. (I'm going to watch Iron Maiden, Alice Cooper and many other grand bands :)) I'll put the game on hold until I'm back.

[Kadelake]

I'm back again! :)

I hope everyone is still with us. I noticed that Jotunheim and Marignon haven't sent in their turns. The game will host tomorrow or when they have sent in their turns.

[Kadelake]

Dectilon has some computer problems and can't access his mail. I'm extending the turn a day and hope he can solve it.

[Numahr]

Issue solved

[Amadamus]

Hi all...

Any chance of considering moving to 72hr? It would be greatly appreciated.

[Kadelake]

I wasn't able to get my turn in on time this turn, so I guess I have to support changing the turn to 72h ;)

By the way, sorry for the last minute turn extension everyone. I've been busy with job applications and couldn't find the time for dominions. Time for some sleep!

[Finalgenesis]

Well you can always stale, I promise I won't complain :p

And good luck to your job search! (With a balancing dose of bad luck to Dom3 of course :D)

[Amadamus]

I'm not going to get my turn in on time today - could i request 24hrs to get my life back in order please? :)

[Kadelake]

Sure :)
I've changed the hosting to 72h.

[Kadelake]

It seems like Amadamus might have disappeared :(

I think it would affect the game way too much if jotunheim went AI right now. Let's hope Amadamus will return soon but I guess we'll have to pause the game and look for a sub.

[Kadelake]

Numahr has offered to take over jotunheim instead of pythium (which is in a pretty unsalvageable position). I'm transferring jotunheim to him right now :)

edit: I'll transfer jotunheim as soon as I've gotten Numahr's mail ;)

[Kadelake]

A new turn! The game is finally under way again :)
Good luck everyone.

[Numahr]

Well bad news guys. The game told me
"CD key violation
Your CD key has been used on multiple installations. Your orders have not been executed."
Concretely it is the equivalent of staling.

Is it because the game received two .2h file from me last turn, the one I made for Pythium some days ago now, and the one for Jotunheim? If we know the cause of this issue, we can avoid it in the future.

[Kadelake]

:(
Yes, the two 2h files was probably the cause of it. I've seen players sub in games after they've been eliminated so it should work. I hope it will work next turn, but I'm not 100% sure. Did you get the current turnfile okay?

I've posted a question about it. Hopefully someone will know.

[Finalgenesis]

Can we extend the turn by 48 hrs? Hopefully this will settle the problem.

[Numahr]

To provide more information, the Pythium report was OK. I am sending this turn the .2h file with AI control from now on.

I guess I should have sent a new Pythium .2h file with AI control on last turn. Since I had already played Pythium, I thought I could just become AI-controled on that nation next turn.

So I'll play Jotunheim again and we'll see what happens this time...

[Amadamus]

Guys...

Sorry about the stales etc - I got caught up in floods in Victoria Australia. I'm back home for today (WA) then back over there to help my poor Mum out. (House is gutted)

Anyways, glad you got a sub....

Strange days.

[Finalgenesis]

Sorry to hear that Amadamus, hope everything works out over there.

[Kadelake]

Yes, sorry to hear that. But at least it's good to hear that you're ok :)
Good luck!

Finalgenesis: Do you still want the turn extended?

[Finalgenesis]

Ah it's fine now, I'll submit my turn in a bit.

[Numahr]

Just to let you know guys that my orders were accepted, every thing is OK :up:

[Kadelake]

I noticed your horror ;)

[Finalgenesis]

Forgot to script my siege last turn :doh:

[Finalgenesis]

Can we extend this turn by 12 hours? I'm really feeling the micro fatigue @.@

[Kadelake]

Sure :)
Big fight coming up? ;)

[Numahr]

I am on an international trip, quite complicated (any trip from Tajikistan is). Please grant a 12-hours delay, I will try to submit my turn before anyway, but I am not 100% sure I will manage.

[Kadelake]

Done. Have a nice trip!

[Nauquan]

Just in case you don't have a good spy network ....

Eriu is siegeing Oceana's capital for the last victory point that they need to win the game. It is very unlikely that I can do anything about it.

[Kadelake]

Good game everyone :)

By the way, how did you kill the Kraken Nauquan? It looked really intimidating with over 600 hp.

[Nauquan]

The first time, I magic dueled it to death with a bunch of Astral-1 lizards - some luck involved.

The second time it ran into my army, and got quite a few afflictions - less tenticles was one. I had foul vapors up and a litle poison helped. I don't remember what killed him in the end but it may have been an underwater Sleeper with an Etheral Crossbow.

[Nauquan]

Congrats to Kadelake. Who left me alone the whole game because he knew that I was good for a quick VP at the end :)

My only consolation is that Oceania died just before he won.

[Numahr]

Congrats to Kadelake! As my first MP game I enjoyed it and learned a lot. Thanks for organizing and administrating :)

[Finalgenesis]

A congratulations also, well deserved!