SnobsLand, "HoFers" only game, [brainstorm]

[WraithLord]

Hi,

First a disclaimer: This game is not a "best" dom players game. Many excellent players are not in HoF. It is absolutely not meant to hint at elitism!
The idea behind this game is to satisfy the cat's curiosity: How would a game played exclusively by HoFers be?- Would it provide interesting surprises & drama?- Who would win it?- What alliances would form?- Who would get stomped/back-stabbed? etc
So, the format is geared towards creating what would hopefully be an interesting game by utilizing the HoF angle, nothing more.

Important note: The game is open to everyone who considers himself an HoFer (whatever that means ) or a champion or an awesome player etc. be it by virtue of skill, experience or ego.

At this stage I'm merely checking whether this concept is sound enough to justify a game.

The format is open for discussion except some immutable points (marked by bold font).

Game would start in 3-4 weeks since I'm moving to a new house in 2 :)
Hosting Pace: First 15 turns every 24h, turns 15-30 48h, turn 30-45 72h, turn 45-60 96h, turn > 61 120h.
Considerate extension giving policy.
Hosting is planned for busy ppl.
Disallowed exploits: copying Bogus' orders and overfilling enemy lab to prevent his own forge.
Killing own mages under Ankh or LaD to gain freebe mages and troops. It's ok in a battle but it's not ok to set it up on purpose (whoever likes to do it knows what I'm talking about)
Hosted on llamaserver.
Diplomacy allowed. It's too much fun, esp. for this kind of game. Maybe restricted but definitely not prohibited.
Mods: CBM, EDM, Sprites- Does it even matter to the server???
Graphs: on
HoF: 15

Discussion:
-> # players, I had in mind anywhere between 10-20 drafted from top 30 HoF positions.
-> Map, land only?
-> Victory condition: 60-70% of # players capital VPs?- Another model?- maybe no VPs and control 70% of provinces?
-> Nations: All ages,one age?
-> Diplomacy: impose some limitations?- like no trades and no alliances are allowed? or maybe, only diplomacy allowed is to offer and accept/reject peace?
-> Research: Normal/hard ?
-> Indies: Normal/hard?
-> Nation selection: random, players send 3 top wanted nations, other model?
-> More?

If the idea is received positively than I'll post here the top 30 HoF positions

Players (if a game ever comes out of this):
1. Baalz
2. Psycho
3. ano?
4. WL
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.

[Baalz]

I'll play.

[ano]

Killing own mages under Ankh or LaD to gain freebe mages and troops. It's ok in a battle but it's not ok to set it up on purpose
Heh. I always liked it and am just curious why people all around now started prohibiting this. Has there been a game recently won with the help of this tactic only?
But still.. Isn't everyone capable of it? Does it give so much advantage? I doubt it.
Also, I remember a thread long ago where people (including Baalz, IIRC) were saying this is absolutely impractical. Now when it has been proven it is practical, this is considered an exploit. How funny

[WraithLord]

I don't want to rehash the argument but I can mention the reasons I personally came to dislike this (since first and last I did it myself - in QWERTY game):
- Adds MM. I hate end game MM already, adding to that is abhorrent IMHO. And as a competitive player you can't choose not to do it (if it's viable) since you always try to minimax.
- It adds a hidden economy, like gem gens.
- I find it unthematic for non death nations.

All that said if I'm at minority I'm willing to allow this.

[ano]

No, WL, I was just curious why it is considered an exploit in MP nowadays. Not a vote or anything. You answered my question, thx.
1. But it is not so much MM, really, unless you're doing it totally crazy.
2. I'm not a fan of nerfing gem gens personally (and I'm not a fan of nerfing at all), though I can understand it. But undead armies or upkeep free mages are by far not so efficient as clams or fetishes.
3. Well, maybe, but what about death ones, like LA C'tis or smth like that?

I'm not going to raise a discussion here, just expressing my thoughts. Maybe will create a thread at the main forum some time later.

Most probably, I'll be on vacation when you're going to start this game, otherwise, I'd be glad to participate.

[WraithLord]

ano, when R U back from vacation?

So far though it doesn't seem like the concept is all that sexy...
Or maybe it needs better PR :)

[Lingchih]

Wraith, your problem is, that most of the HoFamers don't play anymore.

[WraithLord]

Oh, what a shame.
I wonder, is dom-III player pool on a shrinking tendency?- or is the "old" blood fading ;)

[Lingchih]

The Hall of Famers, don't see much reason to play anymore, since they can beat anyone. Granted, using new mods, such as the EDM, they might be challenged. But, I don't see much interest in it (apart from new and intermediate gamers).

Of Course, Baalz will play anything.

I would probably play, just for the challenge. But I'm in no way a HoFamer. Just a longtime player.

[ano]

ano, when R U back from vacation?
I don't know anything about my vacation yet at all :)
But Lingchih seems to be right

[Lingchih]

I would think you would have to put a special Carrot up for grabs, Wraith, to get the old-timers to play. Like... Dom3 Champion, or something.

[Meglobob]

Oh, what a shame.
I wonder, is dom-III player pool on a shrinking tendency?- or is the "old" blood fading ;)

I after say once my current games finish, I think I will stop playing Dom3 MP. Basically, I have played it to death and it just takes up far, far too much free time. I hate playing Dom3 in the summer (when there are much better stuff to do) but its great for the autumn/winter. Games however generally take 9 months to a year to complete and I virtually always reach the endgame. Sooner or later you just after say enough is enough, I will always think of it as one of the greatest games I have ever played thou.

[WraithLord]

Lingchih, I now think I better understand your point.
So the HoFers can beat the others and HoFers only games are very hard to complete w/o frustration since no one can expand easily and everyone who seems more powerful will get dog-piled.

Meglobob, I both understand and sympathize with your sentiments and am sorry to hear that.

I think both Artifacts and Sharivar are good example of how games can get "stuck" when no one gets an easy lead over the others and run away with the game.

I personally still prefer to play with vets rather than newbs and do have a niche spot for dom MPing that I plan to keep, until the next FTBS jewel is released. I had hopes for elemental but I somehow lost them - I now dread it would end up being a boring "spreadsheet" game.

As for dom-IV - I fear it will never happen.

[WraithLord]

I would think you would have to put a special Carrot up for grabs, Wraith, to get the old-timers to play. Like... Dom3 Champion, or something.

Lingchih, I'm afraid if I do that the game won't be any fun. Players will be even more competitive, prone to spend time on MM and diplo than ever before and will basically work, not play through this game.

What is more rewarding, to have a fun, casual game and lose or work like hell to get a shot at being all time dom3 champ?- Note that being dom-3 champ won't get you tons of ggg - girls, gold and glory, you won't even get free beer, so why bother? ;)

[Aethyr]

Cool idea WL. Maybe that fertile mind of yours will be able to dream up a variation on the theme that will get some traction. :)

[Psycho]

The idea is fine, I would play. Free time is the problem and the fact that summer started. When I started playing Dominions I didn't do anything - had just finished studies and didn't start working yet, I had loads of free time so I played 3-4 games simultaneously. Now, I have time for only one, or at most two small games. I am afraid that even with the slow pace, I might end up asking for delays and slowing the game for others.

[WraithLord]

Thanks Aethyr.
I think publishing a list of first 30 HoF positions is not a good idea. Instead the game should be opened to everyone who considers himself an HoFer (whatever that means ;) ), by virtue of skill, experience or ego :D

Psycho, I'm counting you in :)

Lingchih, what about you?- not playing anymore?
Edit, you tempt me to throw that carrot in, you know, proclaim the winner as first among firsts, overlord of all that is dominonesk, the shining light in the dark yadda yadda
Stop! must not give in to said temptation who creeps slowly and corrupts rapidly ;)
no carrots I say!

[Stagger Lee]

no carrots I say!

Let the rabbits wear glasses! :jam:

Tool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcvBgS_RN9w&feature=related)

[Squirrelloid]

It would help if we had any idea who the top 30 are - I certainly can't express interest because I don't know if I qualify. I only see a top 15 in the HoF thread after all. (My 2.5 wins doesn't look too bad, but I don't know if I actually rate top 30).

[Lingchih]

I think I'm in too many games now, Wraith, or will be if the llamaserver ever gets going again. I might be tempted if the carrot were big enough.

Dunno though. With a big enough carrot, Micah might take notice, and come back and kill us all.

[WraithLord]

Well, you asked for it, so there it goes,
positions 30-38 have same # of wins so listed as well.
Generated from last update of DB (like 2 weeks ago I think).
All are welcome to join this game :)

1 - micah 9.00/141
2 - juffos 8.00/101
3 - wraithlord 7.00/105
4 - calmon 6.00/82
5 - psycho 6.00/59
6 - zeldor 5.50/130
7 - executor 5.00/73
8 - isokron 5.00/69
9 - amhazair 4.00/68
10- baalz 4.00/47
11- evilhomer 4.00/46
12- doncorazon 3.50/45
13- ironhawk 3.00/55
14- jurri 3.00/47
15- calahan 3.00/39
16- archaeolept 3.00/39
17- jazzepi 3.00/34
18- kadelake 3.00/34
19- xietor 2.50/45
20- jimmorrison 2.50/38
21- chrispedersen 2.50/33
22- squirrelloid 2.50/25
23- meglobob 2.33/31
24- lolomo 2.00/33
25- ano 2.00/31
26- drpraetorious 2.00/27
27- revolution 2.00/26
28- toran 2.00/25
29- sansanjuan 2.00/24
30- sum1lost 2.00/23
31- kuritza 2.00/23
32- szumo 2.00/21
33- tuidjy 2.00/19
34- redeyes 2.00/19
35- tyrant 2.00/18
36- licker 2.00/17
37- indypendant 2.00/16
38- psisoldier 2.00/14

[Aethyr]

Hmmmmm....

Although it would be a heck of a lot of work to oversee, you have the elements necessary to revive the mega-tournament idea as the rankings could be used to develop brackets. You could size the tourney up or down to suit your taste, and as you indicated, open it up to all who were interested.

So, what about a series of duels? :)

[GrudgeBringer]

Perhaps you should advertise it 'For TOP players only' or something like that.

There may be some out there that would like to play and either think they are good enough and ready to take on the big boys, or they ARE top players but are not in the HOF (maybe thy have come in second a few times etc).

Not talking about me, but I can think of a few....:up:

[WraithLord]

Aethyr, I don't really like duels that much. Dominions is not chess. It's meant for multiple human opponents and I like to play it that way. So, I prefer not to go in the direction of duels.


GrudgeBringer, I've already changed the OP and as it stands, it reflects exactly what you said. I think I'll also change the thread subject as well. Anyway, plz spread the word about this game to "top" players :)