Traitors! Team Game! 1 Captain, 1 Player needed!

[chrispedersen]

Teams so far:

Septimius' Seditionists

Wrana's Raiders

Each team captain will have three subordinants. However, unbeknownst to him - one of them is a mole, actually working for another team!

We will use the Countdown method for bidding for teams. Ie., whoever agrees to use the LEAST points during pretender design will win the nation.

Starting minimum bids will be posted here, if we can get interest in a game.

However, here's the twist. Each captain will be given 1 pt.
For every 40 points that he remains unspent on his pretender design, he will be given 1 additional point.

He will then bid these treachery points on any non-captain player.

Each player's *actual* loyalty will then be determined. Whoever bids highest on a player secretly earns the loyalty of that player. That player wins or loses with his new team.

However, no team may have less than 3 or more than 5 players.

This will be a CBM game, except that gem generators will be used.
Balance mods for Yomi, Agartha, and Abysia will also be used.

Note: Anyone signing up should realize that setup on this game will take some time. Captains must be experienced, and are encouraged to solicit people for their teams.

Captains will have the privilege of bidding ONLY against other captains. This means a captains bid will superceed any other bid (even larger) except other captains.

Minimum bid increments will be 10pts.

Unbalancing sites will be removed. Ie., no construction bonus sites etc. I will admin the game, I will not play unless it becomes necessary for the game to start.

Info:

Map: Large, Suggest: Legendary Ordeals 2 Map
Mods: CBM 1.6, Balance, BSD
Players: 4 captains, 12 team members.
Rename: Yes
HOF: 15
RollBacks: No, unless physically required. (game crash)
Server: Llamaserver, PBM
Turns: 24 for first 10, +8 hrs/10 thereafter
Settings :EA (although I am not opposed to Single Age mod).
Victory: 9 Capitols.
Delays: Liberal, with post to forum.

Starting minimum bids:
Sauromatia: 45
Caelum: 25
Niefelheim: 35
Fomoria: 30
Lanka: 20
Mictlan: 25
C'tis: 15
Helheim: 15
Hinnom: 45
Kailasa: 10
T'ien Ch'i: 12
Vanheim: 12
Ulm: 12
Marverni: 10
Pangaea: 8
R'lyeh: 5
Argatha: 10
Arcoscephale: 5
Yomi: 10
Oceania: 0
Ermor: 0
Abysia: 0
Tir na n'Og: 0
Atlantis: 0

Wrana................. Arco +11 Ulm +3 (Lanka+0)
iamofage
Pelthin...............Ermor +20
Ragnars Wolves:.......Arco +1
Zeg:..................TC +0
mockingbird...........Ctis +0
Nikelaous.............Pan +0
Marmaduke.............
Alium.................Caelum +0

[Gandalf Parker]

Sounds like an interesting variant.
Good luck with it.

[militarist]

I will play

[Septimius Severus]

Traitors! Interesting, who was it that had brought up the idea a while back, Belac? Nice to see it being implemented. Though theoretically any player in a team game could sell out his friends, at least he now has an incentive to do so (I guess it is winning with the other team). Intrigue and espionage. ;) Aside from providing info, the mole would otherwise have to take no action that could be deemed harmful to his team lest he be suspected/discovered and attacked by his host team, I assume, until the time is right. I suppose if a captain were willing to sacrifice a huge number of points on pretender design, this captain could buy the loyalty of at least one mole on each team giving them intel on the strategies/moves of all opposing teams. And buying 4 allied nations as well.

[chrispedersen]

Theoretically, yes. In practise, not so easily.

Each team will have a maximum of five players. So *if* no one subverts a member of his team, the captain will be limited to 2 moles.

[militarist]

"chrispedersen has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

[iamofage]

Sounds exciting! If there's a spot I would to join as well

[Ragnars Wolves]

I will Play

[chrispedersen]

"chrispedersen has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

Chrispedersen has cleared some space -sorry about that militarist!

[chrispedersen]

bump

[Pelthin]

I'm Game sounds like fun. :)

[zegc-ben]

I will play

[chrispedersen]

start making bids for nations =)

[Finalgenesis]

Edit: Deleted

[Pelthin]

I am going to do a little research and then submit my bid. :)

[Pelthin]

So do we send PM's to you Chris with a bid, or is it a public declaration?

[Wrana]

Interesting idea. Do I understand correctly that teams are formed in terms of players and only after that nations are assigned? Or?
Also, could you point at the balance mods for Yomi, Agartha, Abyssia? I don't know, but I would try to add to EA Agartha underwater recruitment some kind of mage, otherwise all their underwater castles look kind of useless... :(

[Septimius Severus]

Has a map or starting locations been decided on yet?

[chrispedersen]

Sept: Map will depend on # of players. Not Decided yet.
Wrana: I was expecting captains to form teams. Captains would get first bid on nations. Then everyone else would bid on nations.

Preliminary versions of the Balance mods were in the Balance game threads (either game or mod). They can also be downloaded from llamaserver. Agartha is quite unique. Yomi needs to be toned down slightly. I like the idea of the recruitable water mage. I may add it. I will try to post final versions of the mods this weekend.

Peltin: Bids are made publicly. Others may overbid you. Minimum bids are posted.

[zegc-ben]

I will go with Tien Chi at the minimum bid of 12 points (and not as a captain of course).

[Ragnars Wolves]

I chose Arco 6 points

[Wrana]

Hm. For now:
Arcoscephales 15, Ulm 15.
Lanka default 20.
I may think up something else (like my favourite Helheim), but these are my bids for now.
I hope I wouldn't have to be a captain, but may do it if more experienced players are lacking. Septimius? ;)

[chrispedersen]

Wrana, I have you in for ulm at 15 (3 more than the minimum). You will switch over to Lanka at +0 (20) if someone out bids you on Ulm.

Your Arco bid is not 10 more than Ragnars. He beat you by seconds =).

[Pelthin]

I guess I will bid Ermor: 20

I know it is high, but I want to see how this plays out. :)

[Wrana]

Your Arco bid is not 10 more than Ragnars. He beat you by seconds =).
You didn't say that the minimum to outbid was to bid 10 more. :p OK, you may consider it to be exactly 10 more for now. :D

[Septimius Severus]

I hope I wouldn't have to be a captain, but may do it if more experienced players are lacking. Septimius? ;)

Wrana, I think your probably near the same experience level as me. I may have more team game experience, but you probably have more MP experience. I am sure you can handle it though. :) But if I am needed to join or captain a team I am available, don't know for how long though.

Being captain is not all that scary as it seems, it is really just an administrative label. You can make it as hard or as easy as you want, depending upon your play philosophy and management style. A team can be as democratic or as centralized as desired. Can be easy going or dead serious. Experience is desirable for a captain of course, but so is free time, energy level, motivation, communication skills, etc.

When players (or captains) choose their teammates it can help to eliminate some internal disagreements, but there is also something to be said for getting to know and working with players you've never played cooperatively with before. It forges new relationships. You don't really know a player till you've played on the same team with them.

Since chris hasn't set up pre-made teams (with names, identities and so forth), I am guessing he is letting players and potential captains organize themselves into teams.

Questions for Chris:

Can a captain bid his points (or more points) in an attempt to ensure the loyalty of his own team members? "Counter Traitorism" :D

Can traitors at some point decide to go "straight" and return their allegiance to their original team? Or has provision made for whether their allegiance can shift, be bought, or offered for sale, to other captains at some point in the game (perhaps for a certain amount of gold)?

[militarist]

I will be off this game, want to make some break.

[chrispedersen]

I hope I wouldn't have to be a captain, but may do it if more experienced players are lacking. Septimius? ;)

Wrana, I think your probably near the same experience level as me. I may have more team game experience, but you probably have more MP experience. I am sure you can handle it though. :) But if I am needed to join or captain a team I am available, don't know for how long though.

Being captain is not all that scary as it seems, it is really just an administrative label. You can make it as hard or as easy as you want, depending upon your play philosophy and management style. A team can be as democratic or as centralized as desired. Can be easy going or dead serious. Experience is desirable for a captain of course, but so is free time, energy level, motivation, communication skills, etc.

When players (or captains) choose their teammates it can help to eliminate some internal disagreements, but there is also something to be said for getting to know and working with players you've never played cooperatively with before. It forges new relationships. You don't really know a player till you've played on the same team with them.

Since chris hasn't set up pre-made teams (with names, identities and so forth), I am guessing he is letting players and potential captains organize themselves into teams.

Questions for Chris:

Can a captain bid his points (or more points) in an attempt to ensure the loyalty of his own team members? "Counter Traitorism" :D

Can traitors at some point decide to go "straight" and return their allegiance to their original team? Or has provision made for whether their allegiance can shift, be bought, or offered for sale, to other captains at some point in the game (perhaps for a certain amount of gold)?

Captains compete only against other captains for their choice of nations. Captains also are the only ones who can earn traitor points.

Yes; a captain can spend points on his own team members. A captain wins all ties. So if Sept as captain, and Wrana as captain both bid 1 point on a team member - that team member stays allied with his nominal team.

Traitors cannot decide to go straight. They will win with their actual team.

[chrispedersen]

Example:

Suppose there are three nominative teams:

Wrana's Wraiders
Septs Vestal Virgins
Igor 'orribles.

The three captains bid: With the outcome the Igor bids 50 points for Niefle; Wrana bids 45 points for Hinnom and Sept bids 5 points for EA Agartha.

Teams are arranged. After all the player bids it works out like this:



Igor (Niefle)
Dr.P: Ulm 10
Micah: Hellheim 25
Hoplo: Vanheim 15

Sept: (Agartha)
Squirrel: Mictlan 35
Frank Toll: Abysia 25
Gandalf: Sauromatia 65


Wrana (Hinnom)
MadFrancis Fomoria 25
JimMorrison: Ctis 20
Grudge: Arco 25


So each captain receives 1 traitor point. Additionally, Sept tells me on top of his 5 point bid he will not spend 120 MORE points... for a total cost of 125. He will have a total of 4 traitor points.

Wrana says that he will not use an additional 40 points: 2 traitor points.

Igor says that *he* will not use 40 poitns.. 2 traitor points.


The captains each secretly tell me their traitor point allocation
suppose it was like this:

Igor (Niefle)
Dr.P: Ulm
Micah: Hellheim IS
Hoplo: Vanheim W

Sept: (Agartha)
Squirrel: Mictlan IS
Frank Toll: Abysia
Gandalf: Sauromatia


Wrana (Hinnom)
MadFrancis Fomoria SS W
JimMorrison: Ctis
Grudge: Arco

So, here's how it works out.

Mad Francis *secretly* is working for Sept.
Hoplo is secretly working for Wrana.

Hoplo can only win - if wrana wins. Mad Francis will only win, once sept's team gets the requisite 1/2 +1 capitols. They only need 7.. they have 5! (Might have to play with that VP worked better with 4 teams).

Still .. Agartha AND giving up 125 points.. will he lose??

The players and the captains will be told who they are really working for.
Although, I'm tempted to only tell the players - to make it a REAL backstabbing game.

[Septimius Severus]

Regarding your above example, if I understand correctly (and I am guessing the I,S,W refer to the captains bids), I've spent 2 traitor points on Mad Francis which is why I have won him rather than Wrana (SS stands for 2 bids). And the traitor point bids on Mictlan and Helheim have cancelled each other out so those players remain loyal to their teams.

Any thought given to how the co-opted player might feel about playing the traitor role (given they have no choice in the matter)? Especially since that player would be the subject of immediate attack by his compatriots if discovered.

I am guessing overall, the effect of the combo of unspent design points spent on pretenders and on traitor points, a captain will likely want/need to go with a rainbow/immobile or other cheapo or non-awake pretender, particularly if they want a "power" nation and/or want to ensure they can buy some allies or ensure the loyalty of their crew, unless they don't mind taking some hits on their scales or magic.

Hmm, as an aside, I guess the object of your pretender point bidding and the various point schemes I've seen for nation selection is an attempt to ensure fairness in the competition for the perceived "power" nations. Looks like it might be useful in non-team games especially, not so sure if it is the optimal way to go in team games though. I do wonder if it doesn't favor veterans or more experienced players (especially in non-team games), as rank noobs would not be well versed in pretender choices, nation selection, which nations are "better", and the many subleties of pretender design. :)

[GrudgeBringer]

Since I am not in this I can feel free to ask some questions and perhaps murk up the waters some.:p

What if a traitor wants to be a DOUBLE AGENT and doesn't care about the official win, but would rather just have a good time?

I think with all the new guys it would show up pretty quick, just throwing a curve ball at you.:)

[chrispedersen]

Since I am not in this I can feel free to ask some questions and perhaps murk up the waters some.:p

What if a traitor wants to be a DOUBLE AGENT and doesn't care about the official win, but would rather just have a good time?

I think with all the new guys it would show up pretty quick, just throwing a curve ball at you.:)

er that would be a real pain in the *** and would interfere with *other* peoples reasonable expectation of fun too.

This remains a team game - even tho not everyone will know what the teams *are*.

[chrispedersen]

Regarding your above example, if I understand correctly (and I am guessing the I,S,W refer to the captains bids), I've spent 2 traitor points on Mad Francis which is why I have won him rather than Wrana (SS stands for 2 bids). And the traitor point bids on Mictlan and Helheim have cancelled each other out so those players remain loyal to their teams.

Correct.



Any thought given to how the co-opted player might feel about playing the traitor role (given they have no choice in the matter)? Especially since that player would be the subject of immediate attack by his compatriots if discovered.


I'm hoping that since players are signing up for a Traitors! game that they will be willing to accept the game premise = ).



Hmm, as an aside, I guess the object of your pretender point bidding and the various point schemes I've seen for nation selection is an attempt to ensure fairness in the competition for the perceived "power" nations. Looks like it might be useful in non-team games especially, not so sure if it is the optimal way to go in team games though. I do wonder if it doesn't favor veterans or more experienced players (especially in non-team games), as rank noobs would not be well versed in pretender choices, nation selection, which nations are "better", and the many subleties of pretender design. :)

Well, experienced players may be better at bidding for particular nations.

However, I think the minimum points is useful for all players. In the countdown game, there was no mictlan, sauromatia, or hinnom.

This lets some of the lesser played nations get played on more competitive basis.

[GrudgeBringer]

Sorry if I brought up a point that I shouldn't have...I would never do that bt I was just wondering about the few on here that 'might'think about it.

Should have just kept my comment to myself.

[Eximius Sus]

Murky Waters: Wasn't that some jazz singer?

[Septimius Severus]

Thanks for the info Chris. I wanted to be sure I understood the concept and/or any potential issues. I might suggest a wrap around map to prevent traitors from being hemmed in due to placement and allow them to hook up easier with their co-conspirators. As I mentioned, I can play as captain or as a team member, assuming their is enough interest to start fairly soon.

I'd probably like to get more experience with Agartha, purely for learning purposes. Also never player Sauromatia. Haven't fully decided yet or looked at pretender designs. My initial bid would be minimum.

[Wrana]

Example:

Suppose there are three nominative teams:

Wrana's Wraiders

Thanks to Chris's persuasive skills, now official. :) Except that I won't play Hinnom, of course.
Any prospective Wraiders should "write themselves down right along the blade", as was said in one of the best novels of modern Russian fantasy. ;)

[chrispedersen]

An interesting expression Wrana.. I'd be interested in the author and the title.


So we have Wrana's Raiders: Awaiting the mighty captain's bid.
And I'm just going to annoint sept as another captain. What do you want your team name to be?

I'm making one small suggestion to the game rules. When the game starts, I will give each captain the password to the game. Any captain may approve a delay; Any other change (on the honor system) will require all captains to agree. Comments?

[Septimius Severus]

And I'm just going to annoint sept as another captain. What do you want your team name to be?

I believe group identity is important in a team game (especially with a decent sized team), and the starting point is of course team name. Vestal Virgins? :) You should know the Emperor is also fond of Celtic and Gallic slave girls and other exotics (don't know if true historically) but I can tell you Severus spent the last years of his life campaigning in Britain/Scotland.

My favorite team names/ideas were Deva's Darlings, Chris' Curmudgeons, DrP's Panoply of Pain, and my all time favorite Gandalf's Groovy Gang. :D Haven't thought of a team name yet though. Sept's Subversives, The Apostates, hmm.


I'm making one small suggestion to the game rules. When the game starts, I will give each captain the password to the game. Any captain may approve a delay; Any other change (on the honor system) will require all captains to agree. Comments?
That is fine, it will mean you will have less control as admin, but I know you tend to be rather laid back at least in terms of delays. The game should certainly appeal to those who prefer a non-theme based team game without any AIs.

[Eximius Sus]

Do folks play a lot of team games with themes and AI's?

[chrispedersen]

Well, mods are definitely becoming more standard.

Both mods and themes are ways of extending the life of a game.
Human players are much more interesting and challenging than the AI.

I don't consider the game playable vs ai. Its mind numbingly simple. You have no idea the difference MP vs Ai play. Its a whole new world = )

[Squirrelloid]

I will not play, but I do have an entertaining and potentially suicidal strategy if a captain wants an idea of something interesting to do.

[Septimius Severus]

Well, mods are definitely becoming more standard.

Both mods and themes are ways of extending the life of a game.
Human players are much more interesting and challenging than the AI.

I don't consider the game playable vs ai. Its mind numbingly simple. You have no idea the difference MP vs Ai play. Its a whole new world = )

I agree. Whatever can be done to extend the life of the game and keep things interesting, can/should/is being done.

Nothing beats human players of course, though I do think the AI can be challenging especially for very new players or players who have never really played against them before. Beats static indies anyway.

Wonder what Squirrel has in mind, sounds devilishly delicious. :evil:

[Eximius Sus]

Nothing beats human players of course, though I do think the AI can be challenging especially for very new players or players who have never really played against them before. Beats static indies anyway.

Wonder what Squirrel has in mind, sounds devilishly delicious. :evil:

Why on earth would I want to join a multiplayer game and fight the AI? Seems like MP games take months. I can beat up 15 AI's in a couple days at 40 turns a day. I just can't imagine the motivation to do that at less than one turn a day. Sounds boring as hell. Especially after what Chris Pedersen above said that the AI is easy.

Do you put AI's in multiplayer games? What on earth for?

[Septimius Severus]

Why on earth would I want to join a multiplayer game and fight the AI? Seems like MP games take months. I can beat up 15 AI's in a couple days at 40 turns a day. I just can't imagine the motivation to do that at less than one turn a day. Sounds boring as hell. Especially after what Chris Pedersen above said that the AI is easy.

Do you put AI's in multiplayer games? What on earth for?

When AIs are added to MP games from the beginning, you've got a comp stomp which can be interesting or desirable for some players, it also presents a greater challenge in my opinion versus just regular indies. Oftentimes the AIs that are added to MP games (like the GENOCIDE AIs in the NaV series) are enhanced/modified and/or boosted, and are generally much tougher/and or more challenging than your typical run-of-the-mill unmodified AIs. As a matter of fact, the AI can in theory at least, be made powerful enough (but not necessarily smart enough) to wipe every player off the map.

But of course whenever a player drops in any MP game, and a replacement cannot be found, you wind up fighting against AIs, like it not. You're also fighting against a static AI/computer opponent whenever you attack an indy province. :)

[Eximius Sus]

Oh. You meant a coop game. I guess I can see the point of that. 4-6 players working together to kill a pack of AI's. So you have modified the AI's artificial intelligence? I didn't realize you could do that. Making the AI's smarter would be cool.

Oh I read a bit about that NaV series. Those weren't coop games. They were team games with some extra AI's stuck into it.

PS: Can you boost AI's in single player? That would be fun. Bashing 4 super AI's as fast as you can play.

[Septimius Severus]

Oh. You meant a coop game. I guess I can see the point of that. 4-6 players working together to kill a pack of AI's. So you have modified the AI's artificial intelligence? I didn't realize you could do that. Making the AI's smarter would be cool.

Oh I read a bit about that NaV series. Those weren't coop games. They were team games with some extra AI's stuck into it.

PS: Can you boost AI's in single player? That would be fun. Bashing 4 super AI's as fast as you can play.

Don't want to get the thread off topic (apologies to Chris). The NaV series is cooperative in the sense the AI is the common enemy/obstacle of all the teams (you can read about our trials/tribulations against the AI in the NaV forum archives using the link in my signature).

Modifications to the AI programming logic (i.e. making it smarter) would have to be done by the developers but there are certain things you can do via modding, map editing, etc, to attempt to keep the AI from doing some nonsensical things and to give it a huge starting advantage/powerful forces/production bonuses/good pretenders/scales, etc.

I am one of those players that jumped right into MP without really every learning how to play/beat AI opponents in single player, so its a great learning opportunity for me. I also enjoy working with other players to beat up on or challenge the AIs.

Yes, you can boost the AIs in single player.

[Wrana]

Boosting an AI in SP has a slight problem, however: you got full information as to exactly how it was boosted (Pretender design, etc.). A workaround here would be using scenario made by someone else. Also, there is a SemiRand, though this I didn't test personally. And Gandalf's server offers some opportunities for this, including these "coop" games (I'm not familiar with this term myself, but I think this is the same as what you meant) - try to proceed from his signature. ;)

[chrispedersen]

There are a variety of things you can do.
You can use map statements to make the AI's never attack each other for example.

Gandalf's game server always has a bunch of random games (boosted ai's) where it will be you against everyone else; alternately you can play a couple of players versus all the AIs.



And with that.. lets get back to this current game:

Sept we need a name for your team, and we need to spread the word and get another captain.

By my count if we could get 3 teams of 4 you could start. So we are one captain and a couple of players away.

[Septimius Severus]

Well Chris, it can be difficult to come up with a team name that is reflective of commonality or shared attributes without knowing the nations or the players on the team. But, let see, since the game is about traitors/loyalty and following along the lines of Wrana's Raiders, we can go with Septimius' Seditionists. ;)

Yes, there must be more interest in the game to get started, especially if there's a dearth of players during the summer months (in the northern hemisphere).

[chrispedersen]

So we have two captains

Septimius' Seditionists

and

Wrana's Raiders

Lets plan on one more captain. And any preferences as to team members?

[mockingbird]

I'm only playing in my second MP game ever, but if that's okay I'd like to try this variant out.

[chrispedersen]

Sure mockingbird. Welcome to the game Just understand this game will take a while to form. But take a look at what nations you want to play - and make a bid.

[mockingbird]

Okay, C'tis +0.

[Ragnars Wolves]

I am still interested, have my bid in, and am in no hurry to start as I realize the time and effort it takes to set up one of these games. I just found out I can hook on with a couple of guys and go rock climbing in Colorado this weekend so I won't be back until late Sunday or Early Monday, just in case you need something.

Thank You

[chrispedersen]

...

[Nikelaos]

I'd like to join as Pangea (+0)

[rmcolosimo]

I am still around, so in interest of past childhood expereinces... Pick me... Pick Me.. to be on your team..

I'm umm..pretty good, and I take orders well. :)

[Ragnars Wolves]

Going to the Lake of the Ozarks this weekend to find women....lots of women.

Going to the lake of the Ozarks to get liquered up, REAL liquered up and find women. so If game decisions are needed please wait until I sober up Monday.

Also, I picked Arco and bid on it....since no one has picked Abysia....could I change to that and bid instead?

Thank you:D

[Septimius Severus]

Chris, you may want to update the player roster on the main post. I count perhaps 9 players in total so far. If your going for 3 teams of 4, we'd only need 2 more and 1 Captain. At that point then, I suppose the divvying up of players and final bids could be placed.

[Marmaduke]

Hi there,
I have not yet played MP on this forum and I do not yet know CBM, but I would be glad to participate as a team member with one of the cheapest nations like EA Ermor, EA Oceania or EA Abysia for example.

[chrispedersen]

Sure, Marmaduke.. put a bid in.

Updating opening post. 1 Player and 1 captain needed!
Any player may change their bid at any time, including if their captain tells them to!

[Marmaduke]

Let's say Oceania +0 then.

[Marmaduke]

I looked around and found the CBM 1.6 mod, ok. I found the "Legendary Ordeals 2" map here: http://www.nakido.com/D2C8529FC4175705DD1A42F506FD43980052AA98.

But I don't find the Balance mod and the BSD mod. Would you please help me locate them?
Thanks.

[chrispedersen]

For the balance mod, search for the Balance game here in the forum or at llamaserver.

A few things to note: These would be diminshed slightly, especially yomi. If no one takes agartha, abysia or yomi, we will not use the mod at all.

The BSD mod has changed names; I'm at work at the moment, and so can't point you in that direction. However, there is only one mod of this kind. It removes all the super exotic "I win" sites.

Sorry I can't be more of assistance at the moment. However, when I return home tonight, if you haven't found them by then, I'll update the original post to include them.

[Nikelaos]

Chris I'd like to volunteer to be that last captain.
Sticking with my originalbid of Pan +0

[Marmaduke]

We just need one last player, don't we?

Come forward, you last pretender! :)

[Nikelaos]

no we need 2, I already applied but I didn't offer to be captain

[zegc-ben]

I may not have any internet acess this week so dont think I am out if the last players are found and I am not responding.

[Septimius Severus]

Not following you Nikelaos (per previous posts). Did you volunteer to be the last captain?

Chris, can we have links to any maps/mods used in the game included in the main post of the thread, for convenience sake. Thanks.

[Allium]

This will be only my second MP game here, but this sounds interesting. I'd like to be a team member, please.

[Nikelaos]

Not following you Nikelaos (per previous posts). Did you volunteer to be the last captain?


Yes I'm volunteering to be the last captain.

And Allium you need to make a bid on a nation.

[Allium]

For now, I'll just go for something cheap, say TnN +0.

[Septimius Severus]

Not following you Nikelaos (per previous posts). Did you volunteer to be the last captain?


Yes I'm volunteering to be the last captain.

And Allium you need to make a bid on a nation.

Oh, sorry, I was confused because in the last post you said you didn't offer to be captain.

I haven't decided on my bid or nation yet. If we have enough players for the 3 teams we can probably start by deciding who's going to be on what team and that will give people a chance to finalize their bids/nations better perhaps after discussion with their teammates/captain (or we could wait for more players and another Captain).

It's ultimately up to Chris to decide how this is to be done, but there are several ways to go about it: Player preference (letting individual players choose their team, might reduce any possible discord), Captain's Choice (captain's decide which players they want), or letting the admin assign players. In the case of the captains or admin selecting team members for each team, it can be done via an alternating posting method or via ranked list, or what have you.

Or if Chris wants the bids and nations to be finalized first before teams are grouped, that will work as well. In that case, I'll have to get my bid in ASAP. :)

Some thought will also need to be given to team communication method, IRC, chat, e-mail, forums, in-game messaging, etc. If the captains want I can set up a special section on the NaV forums for their teams.

[Nikelaos]

sorry for not making it clear, what I meant was that my very first post in this thread when I made my bid for pangea, I didn't say anything about being captain.

I was letting Marmaduke know that we still needed 2 more people because I already applied to be in the game before I agreed to be captain.

[chrispedersen]

Great Job!!

thanks Nikelaous. So, here is how I'd like to proceed. We have our three captains.

1. I'd like to give the captains 48 hours to finalize there bids or make counter bids.
2. Captains, choose players until all captains and players agree.
3. Players (in consultation with captains) finish bidding with nations.
4. Captains get builds for me; I will create pretenders and upload, verifying point totals. Get me emails, so I can then change *you* to the player.
5. Captains will then bid on traitors (secretly)
6. I will inform traitors secretly who they are working for. I will tell captainst who they successfully bid on.

[chrispedersen]

Sept,

If you'd like to set up forums for everyone that would be nice.

[Nikelaos]

Still thinking of possible names but right now I'm leaning towards:

Nikelaos' Naughty Nypmhos

Sorry couldn't resist, atleast I refrained from adding "naked" to that piece of alliteration.

[Ragnars Wolves]

Howdy, I never got an answer if I could change my nation and bid on Abysia.

It seems if the answer is yes then we have another mod to load so if it is to much trouble I am content with Arco...just thought I would play something I had never played before.

[Pelthin]

Woohoo.. Now the fun starts.

Ermor you are mine... Maybe, if that is what my capt wants that is...

:)

[Septimius Severus]

Well, since I am a somewhat casual player and want to get some experience with a nation I've not yet played and though I generally like to try the underdog nations in an era, maybe I'll try won of the "power" nations. Accordingly, I'll finalize my nation choice and bid with Sauromatia with the minimum # of unspent points.

As for captains choosing players, my inclination would probably be to choose the most experienced or energetic of the available noobs, but I have no preferences really. If there's going to be no particular system for the choosing other than agreement of players, I'll go ahead and recruit (if they agree) say:

Pelthin
Ragnars Wolves
Zegc

To join the Seditionist's!

Be aware my play/leadership style in this game will likely be rather laid back with an emphasis on exploration, learning, and having fun.

I can certainly set up those 3 forums for the teams. It might be convienient, as some players will already have login's there. Anyone new joining, would just use the same username as here so I know who you are.

Would still like to get some links for the mods in the game posted on the opening post Chris. I have CBM, but not the others. Thanks.

[Pelthin]

Septimius likes me, he really likes me. Or at least choose me at random.. Woo Hoo!

I would like to thank all my friends who never thought I would amount to anything, and I would also like to thank myself, cuz I am that good... :)

[Nikelaos]

I'll take Marmaduke, Allium, and Mockingbird because they were the first 3 I could think of. (atleast i'm honest)

Unless anyone is against this (I don't see why they might), I urge y'all to just pick nations you feel comfortable withand we'll talk about what may be good for the group afterwards and maybe make some changes.

Btw in-character roleplay is fun...DO EEEEEETTTT!!1!!111!!!1!1!!

[mockingbird]

Is our moderator still active? The first post hasn't been updated in a while.

[Nikelaos]

Chris posted the day before yesterday so I assume that yes he is active.

[Ragnars Wolves]

I'm IN with Sept and the boys...no Traitor here (well at least not yet)!!!!:D

[Septimius Severus]

The forums have been created. You can use the link in my sig to sign up or visit.

[Marmaduke]

Hello Septimius, I don't see any sig in your posts. :(

[Septimius Severus]

Hello Septimius, I don't see any sig in your posts. :(

Hail Marmaduke! You don't see my signature? That's odd. Well here is the link for the forums, Chris can add it to the main post of the thread for ease of access:

http://noobsvets.silverforum.net/index.php

[Marmaduke]

Thanks Septimius, and I realized it was my settings. :doh:

[Allium]

I'd like to change my bid to Caelum at default.

[Marmaduke]

I believe we are still waiting for one last player to join Wrana's Raiders team.

Come on people, join a fun game of thrones where your backstabbing will be not only tolerated, but codified by the interesting traitors rule!

I can hardly wait for this game to begin. :d

[Nikelaos]

bump... now I'm a little concerned as to the whereabouts of chris

[chrispedersen]

Chris is here.. I think we're still waiting on one player, are we not?
I have been travelling a fair bit - but I'm pumped and primed and ready to get this show on the road....

[Septimius Severus]

Not quite sure what we are waiting on, haven't seen Wrana post in a while but it would seem the Raiders consist of:

Wrana
Iamofage
rmcolosimo

So I guess one more player. Perhaps the opening post should be updated with team/player info and links to the mods used in the game (still waiting for that). And maybe the thread title as well, since it still says we are looking for 1 captain and 1 player.

[Marmaduke]

After discussing the situation with Captain Nikelaos, I would like to change my bid to:
Atlantis (+0)
Thanks!

Quick edit: also, what will be the strength of independents in this game please? Normal or 9?

[Wrana]

Greetings to all!
I am back to city and game. :D
Prospective Raiders are therefore asked to write to me with any thoughts they have on their nations. I will probably write to you in a day or too. Good luck!

[zegc-ben]

I would like to raise one point who should be clarified : what is the degree of guaranteed information teammates are allowed to share ?

This is important because the amount of things a traitor can do is directly limitated by the knowledge his captain has of his turns and some informations are almost impossible to counterfeit.

I can see mostly 3 different levels :
_full turn file
_screenshot of some part of the game but not everything (for exemple the main screen but not the amount of gem and not the message)
_nothing can be guaranteed to be true and exchanging anything to difficult to counterfeit is forbidden.

[Ragnars Wolves]

wow, you guys can figure that out as it is over my skill level with a computer, HOWEVER a VERY important post...

[Marmaduke]

Small bump. This game has a difficult start! ;)

[chrispedersen]

we still need one more player.

I thnk the .trn question is an excellent one. So lets make the assumption: no shared .trn files as a rule.

Captains will have to trust their (backstabbing) team mates = )
Glad to hear Wrana is back... lets get organized people!!

[Marmaduke]

Two suggestions:
- would it be possible to update the original post with attachments or links to the mods/relevant threads please; many mods have almost the same name and I am not sure which ones to use.
- does the Legendary Ordeals 2 have an underwater start? I did a test and it crashed with Oceania.

Many thanks.

[Marmaduke]

Bi-weekly bump.

We still need one more player.

You are welcome to join!

[Burnsaber]

Just happened to bump into this. I can't join myself due to other projects (and this game also seems to be on the wrong forum for me :D), but I wish you guys well, this seems like a intresting idea.

But I'm posting about the map. It seems that you are using the map for Legendary Ordeals 2? I just wanted to let you guys know that I've updated that map (removed some extra connections, fixed a horribly bugged indy defenders in one province and fixed a lot terrain). You can download the fixed map from my GM guide here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46040). Also if you don't use a GM, you probably should eliminate all the special sites from the central and outer provinces and the custom defenders. They won't be balanced without someone scripting the defense.

Marmaduke, about your crash. Did you play with random opponents? The map has just 2 legal starts for UW players, if your game went over that due to the random nations rolling into underwater nations, that could crash the game.

[Marmaduke]

Is this game cancelled chrispedersen?
I am asking because I might want to apply to another game if 'traitors' is never going to run.

[Septimius Severus]

Not much going on here. A more pro-active approach (Chris where are ya?) may be necessary or we may wish to shelve the game for future play. It is an interesting concept, though with NaVIII due to launch in the next month or so, and/or participation in another game and outside commitments, I may not have the time unless the game gets underway fairly soon. If any of my team has drifted, that will require additional time for replacement recruitment.

Regular updates/progress info/postings are essential to keep players informed and up-to-date in games that require a great deal of time or work to get going. I've posted several times asking for thread updates/mod links. No response.

[Ragnars Wolves]

Well, I appreciate the time and work invested an was looking forward to being the spy!!! But in the meantime I have joined a couple of games and I don't want to tax myself so I will withdraw at the present time.

Should you go ahead with this idea in the future and I have a slot open, I would love to play. Thanks to all...

Rags

[mockingbird]

I have basically assumed that this won't happen and have joined some other games as well.

[Septimius Severus]

Ok, I am deleting/closing down the traitors team forums, unless I hear something to the contrary. Thanks goes to my team for joining and being willing to play in the first place, and thanks to those hearty and brave souls for volunteering to captain their teams.