CoE III

[Doo]

Played CoE2 recently and loved the concept and playstyle. It could do with a massive makeover and include stuff from Dom3 like forging and more advanced battles (but not like Dom3 IMO). I'd love for SP if the battles were in the style of Master of Magic but know for MP this is not good.

The ability to build roads to improve movement (with different leaders capable of different quality roads) would be good, along with the ability to "upgrade" map components like towns (by building a marketplace to improve gold income) or forests (via magic to improve fungus and improve fire resistance).

I'd buy it.

[Gandalf Parker]

Well they are working on a new project.
We dont know what it is so for all we know it might be a CoE III :)

[Doo]

Don't tease GP, if you know its CoE3 say so ;)

It would be good. CoE2 is fun but could be updated with extra features to improve the game.

For example, how about locations that allow unique units to be recruited?
Wood Forts don't allow as much to be recruited (either in quality, quantity or both) so invest the cash and time to upgrade them.

I could rabbit on with more idea's.....

[Doo]

Another idea, in CoE2 you recruit groups of soldiers (ie 5 swordsmen) but after purchase they are individuals. How about make them a "squad" that are always joined. The squad can have individual units die but recruits can replace the deaths. The squad can have its equipment upgraded, even with magic gear. Forge 5*Ice Swords and the swordsmen now have magic swords with better defense. The good thing about this is that it retains CoE2's smaller scale (compared with Dom3's epic battles of hundreds of units) and allows different strategy about mixed forces, upgrading, quality vs quantity and saving valuable units to build back up to strength,

I'd say the magic would need to be capped in a way, for example if we take Dom3 as an example the best magic items a squad could get would be max construction 2 items, but I'd include more tiers between con0 and con2. So fear helms which are everyday items in Dom3 are pretty rare in CoE3. Leaders only can use the real good forged items. Perhaps make some items unique to units, eg for a squad of "fire" mages allow them to have forged robes which increase their fire magic attacks.

Make mages more like the "support" mages of Kohan 2, they have limited spells (unlike Dom3 where they have heaps of spell options to be scripted, this eliminates mage scripting), they operate like units and not leaders and their spell effects can get better with items and experience.

Make Leaders like leaders in Kohan or Warlords, they participate directly in the battle and/or have secondary skills that passively affect squads under their command. So usual fare, magic heroes can either be tough mages themselves or passively increase mage squads under their command, melee leaders the same but with melee squads. Even have unique leaders that have other tricks. Nothing like HoMM5 where uber heroes almost auto-win but something to encourage up-skilling leaders, unless the faction being played strength is squad/leader spam.

[Doo]

Here's another idea.

Anyone play Stars! (how to put a question mark at the end of that question without it being absurd? :) )

One really cool thing with Stars! was that the detection was based on strength or the radar, distance from radar and base unit stealth. How about a similar system? Forts and big towns are capable of differing levels of detection. However the further from the town the less strength the detection has. This is where stealth comes in. Units with no stealth always get spotted. Units with stealth get spotted once the level or detection becomes greater than the stealth, and of course the level of detection becomes greater the closer to town or fort the stealth unit is.

I think this works well because it allows the "stealth raider" tactics of Dom3 to play out, also it fits in well with the smaller army size feel CoE2 has over Dom3.

There has to be a cost to increasing detection. A direct investment like an "upgrade" button would be the simple way, the question then is if you lost the town would the enemy retain the benefit? Or I thought a system where you move a slider to reduce town income to improve detection, but how would this work with forts which have no income?

Including this would work with "flavor" too. Some factions have better (or cheaper) detection than others, and some factions have better stealth than others. Magic could increase or decrease either.

[Doo]

Another idea

Instead of the "All defenders go first, than all attackers, repeat" combat of CoE2, switch to each soldier having a base initiative value and to this each round a random number is added. Give the ranged units a bonus to initiative that is less the longer the game goes on. Sounds great.

Some magic improves initiative, some lessens. Some leader traits grant a % chance to improve initiative each battle.

Cool bananas.

[brxbrx]

Gandalf Parker is not just a helpful user, he is also a prophet.

[Gandalf Parker]

Unfortunately one which is bound by an NDA (signed non-disclosure agreement) so I can only refer to things which have been said in public. Sometimes it a real headache to keep track of what is or isnt public info.

I am SO glad they finally posted it. :)

[Gandalf Parker]

Update: the CoE3 Beta Test is NOT bound by NDA.
So if anyone has any questions about the new version coming out, feel free to ask.

I will say that I am a beta tester for it and it IS addictive.

Here is a public Updates page so that you can see the progress which is being made.
http://jaffa.illwinter.com/coe3/coe3progress.html

[Edi]

I will say that I am a beta tester for it and it IS addictive.
Quoted for Truth.

Seriously, the game has a lot more of the "Just one more turn" pull than Dominions 3 does, because the amount of micromanagement is a lot less and turns are very quick. There is also a lot more of the "Okay, what the hell is going to happen next?" because despite not being quite as extensive as Dominions, CoE3 is more unpredictable in some respects and it takes more effort to unlock the mysteries.

[Strider]

Leaders do have passive abilities that affect all of the units under them.
I prefer playing 'fighter' type units, so I do use mages as support units in my armies instead of as 'leaders', tho they can be used as leaders.
For now, at least, all Defenders do go first.
You do buy units in groups. A few are single purchases. They are then 'individuals' that you can place under a leader.

[ioticus]

Any estimate on when it will be coming out?

[Gandalf Parker]

No estimate yet on when or how it will be released.

@Strider the MP test games will be interesting then. Because I tend to prefer the casters over the fighter types. The casters start out weak and can be taken easily by a rush. But later in the game they get VERY powerful. Actually my favorite solo games are when I team me as a caster type with an AI who is a fighter type. Especially if they start near each other. They can overlap zones easily since they dont tend to need the same resources. And if the fighter can keep the other AIs off of me long enough I can get to cranking out some really interesting armies later on to save his butt from other casters

[Snoddasmannen]

Beta testers not bound by NDA? That's a refreshing change :)

So what are battles like compared to COE2 or Dom3?
How does the XP system work?
Is it just me or does the map look a bit colourless?
What is your favourite monster and why?

[Strider]

Battles.
Right now, battles are melee units on front line (up to 20 in a line), any other melee units lined up behind them to take the place(s) of any getting killed. Ranged units and mages behind any lines of melee units. AI determines where the units are placed in lines. If the unit commander(s) are melee units, they are on the front line.

Units earn experience for fighting battles (or sitting with a 'training' commander.

Map colors look ok to me. Not sure what you may be expecting.

Monsters ain't my favorites...they kill my units ;) I found a Beholder once...it was an army unto itself. I ran away.

To me, it's a cross between COE2 and Dom3. I really like the way it plays. Testing Dom 3 was a lot of work. COE3 is a lot of work too, but I seem to be enjoying it much more. I'm not the guru that Gandalf and Edi are, so they can give a lot better details than I can.

[Gandalf Parker]

@Strider: You're doing fine. :)

@Snoddasmannen (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/member.php?u=9578):
Hmm... well combat is hands-off (you dont direct units while the combat occurs). So far there is no formations and no actual scripting altho you can select a mages memorized spells from his spell list. This game has much less micromanagement than Dom3 and moves much quicker

Maybe you saw the map in Winter? Since its a tiled map, its able to go thru changes such as for a season, or if a forest is destroyed, or a meteor strike etc etc. So I think its far from colorless except maybe in the winter

My favorite monster? Necrotod that the Echanter can make because it can charm other units to join you. Or the metal dragons that the Horologist can make. Or the Giant Fungus that the Witches can make which were a real irritation until I learned how to make use of them.

[Snoddasmannen]

Thanks Strider and Gandalf, I appreciate the sneak peaks :)

To point out what I meant with the colors, I just dragged a COE2 window next to a COE3 screenshot, see attached file. The COE2 one just looks warmer and cozier to me, even taking fog-of-war into account. It's just a matter of preference of course, I for one love the high contrast 32x32 sprites :)

One more question and then I'll leave you alone: Did any of the R'lyeh spawn make it into the game? Fthagn and all that ...

[Gandalf Parker]

Yes. One of the nations is the Deep Water Cultists

[Edi]

Battles.
Right now, battles are melee units on front line (up to 20 in a line), any other melee units lined up behind them to take the place(s) of any getting killed. Ranged units and mages behind any lines of melee units. AI determines where the units are placed in lines. If the unit commander(s) are melee units, they are on the front line.

Units earn experience for fighting battles (or sitting with a 'training' commander.

Map colors look ok to me. Not sure what you may be expecting.

Monsters ain't my favorites...they kill my units ;) I found a Beholder once...it was an army unto itself. I ran away.

To me, it's a cross between COE2 and Dom3. I really like the way it plays. Testing Dom 3 was a lot of work. COE3 is a lot of work too, but I seem to be enjoying it much more. I'm not the guru that Gandalf and Edi are, so they can give a lot better details than I can.

Yeah, you're doing just fine. I've had to pay quite a bit more attention for the manual and

Units actually earn 1 XP Per turn anyway, but commanders with the right special ability boost that by an additional 1 XP per turn and they also get 1 XP per battle (assuming they survive).

Oh, and don't get me started on beholders. They're bad enough, but go right ahead and find yourself an elder beholder and see where THAT will do to your army. It has all of 3 HP less than a normal one, but it has better magic...

http://www.illwinter.com/coe3/screenshots.html

There's a normal beholder shown at the bottom of the CoE3 screenshots page here, so upgrade that a bit and there you go...

As far as unit placement in the lines, it is done by the AI, but there is a logic to it. That will all be in final version of the manual.

I expect the battle order to stay unchanged, meaning that defender will go first and both sides will do according to the sequence we've seen so far.

[Thilock_Dominus]

Will CoE III be moddable?

[Edi]

There is no modding support in CoE3 right now. It will probably be added, but maybe not until after it has been released.

The cosmology will be similar to Dominions, at least the void and horrors will make it into CoE3. Nations are not the same though. CoE is more about a powerful character like the necromancer, he does not rule a large nation like the pretender gods in Dominions.
That's the latest news so far, from mid-August.

[Flop]

I'd like to thank the testers for posting their thoughts. I had completely forgotten about this game, but after reading up on it a bit, I can't wait to play it.

Will this be available in the Shrapnel store, though? I see there's a pre-order deal on Desura, but I can't find any information about the game being made available anywhere else. Does anyone know?

Thanks. :)

[Edi]

So far Desura is the only channel we know about.

[Flop]

Thanks man. To tell you the truth, I caved shortly after typing that last post, and pre-ordered it. I'm trying to limit the number of online stores I use, so I've been avoiding the desura, but this was too good to miss. :)

[SsSam]

multiple installs on different machines using the same key?

[Edi]

multiple installs on different machines using the same key?
Only have one machine, so haven't tested that. For SP, don't see why not, unless there is a hidden key check somewhere. Can't play MP with same key from different machines, that much I know.