Momentum 3 - Finished - sansanjuan/Marverni and odeoderok/Ulm win!

[Valerius]

Game summary: remove the most powerful EA nations from the mix and make changes to allow all players a chance at various SC summons.


Basic settings

Age: EA
Players: 8
Hosting: llamaserver
Hosting interval: 24 hours up to turn 25, 48 hours up to turn 50, 72 hours from then on
Mods: modified version of CBM 1.6 and EDM 1.1 (see changes below)
Map: Land of Ethereal Squirrels (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44084) with fixed starts
HoF: 15
All other settings default


Available nations

I've enjoyed Burnsaber's Cripple Fight series of games that include a mix of nations without a HoF victory. In this game I've focused on one era and used my own judgement rather than win/loss stats in selecting the available nations. I should note that of course this is subjective; especially for nations that were on the bubble it's not too hard to argue that nation x should have been included and nation y should have been banned. But the main point is that the nations most clearly at the top of the EA pile have been removed from play. If you think I've allowed a nation that is too powerful then I encourage you to choose it and show me and the other players the mistake I made. :)

So, here's the lineup of available nations (8 of 11 will be chosen):

Abysia
Agartha - ghoul31
Arcoscephale - Zeldor
C'tis - Squirrelloid
Ermor - Graeme Dice
Kailasa
Marverni - sansanjuan
Pangaea
Tir na n'Og - Valerius
Ulm - odeoderok
Yomi - 13lackGu4rd


SC changes

I've made some changes to SCs. Partly this is a rebalancing, but even more it's opening up SC options to everyone such that you'll have decent choices regardless of what type of gem income ends up being your strongest.

Tarts

The big change here is that tarts arrive as affliction free commanders. So, you *don't* need GoH or the Chalice to take advantage of them. Of course those things would be handy for healing injured tarts as well as other purposes - but they aren't necessary to summon them cost efficiently. Speaking of costs, tarts now cost 35 death gems, priced in line with other SC summons. Since they are all commanders there is no need for GoR.

With tarts being open to all players, as well as the other SC options available, I removed the nerf to their HP introduced in CBM 1.6.

Note: in order to make this work the way I wanted I had to copy one of the spells that summons a random commander from a predefined group (I ended up using Hinnom's Grigori summon). Since this spell summons from a group of 6 I had to drop one tart. I've removed the monstrum and made that a separate troop summon (tentatively Conj. 9, D6 caster, 12 gem cost). More importantly, since Grigori are unique summons each turn only six tarts can be summoned. Beyond that casters will receive a message that there was no answer to the summoning. That means this method doesn't scale well but with only 8 players and with tarts now costing 35 gems each I don't think we'll run into problems. If we occasionally do, well that's just a risk of summoning, similar to elemental royalty. Which brings us to...

Elemental royalty

I've always like the elemental royalty but felt they were somewhat underwhelming. So, I've given them boosts. First, they are non-unique. Note that this works just like the tart method described above, so each turn only 3 AQs, 3 WQs, 2 EKs, and 2 FKs can be summoned. As with tarts, the count resets each turn.

Other boosts:

AQ: HP 70, regen 10, recuperation, darkvision 100
WQ: HP 95, regen 10, recuperation, darkvision 100, Queen of Lakes has sailing
EK: HP 240, regen 20, recuperation, darkvision 100
FK: HP 120 and 160, regen 10, recuperation, darkvision 100

As you can see these changes are intended to give the elemental royalty durability and the ability to operate on equal footing with undead/demons under darkness.

Diversity summons

Only a few changes here.

Grendelkin: HP 240 --> 200, strength 38 --> 32, poor amphibian, CR 50, cost 40 --> 35 gems
Granite Cyclops: HP 80 --> 120
Ember Lord: map move 3 (technically 2 + flying)
Treant: cost 40 --> 35 gems


Misc. changes

Banned globals: Arcane Nexus, Astral Corruption, Burden of Time, Forge of the Ancients, Utterdark, Gift of Nature's Bounty
Banned sites: The Desert Eye (Ench. 50), Conjurer's Cave (Conj. 30), Mount Chaining (Blood 40), Oak of Ages (Ench. 50), Summoning Circle (Blood 60), The Blood Rock (Blood 30), The Cedar Pillars (Ench. 30), The Ebony Circle (Conj. 30), The Mountain of Power (Evo./Ench. 30), The Ultimate Gateway (Conj. 50), The Water Solstice (Ench. 50), Throne of Enlightenment (Ench. 30).
Well of Misery: moved to Evo. 8
Gift of Reason: reduced to 10 gems
Blood magic: under other circumstances I'd be inclined to nerf blood more heavily but with the nation mix here I'll go easy. Soul contract cost increased to 65B15F, lifelong protection to 40B, jade knives eliminated, vampire lords cost 100B, summon vampires 43B.

[13lackGu4rd]

sure, I'll try Yomi. been wanting to tr them out in MP for some time now and in a normal game Yomi is just too underwhelming...

[Valerius]

Yeah, this is something I like about Cripple Fight-style games - it gives people a chance to play nations they like and not feel they're putting themselves at a disadvantage from the start.

I'm glad you chose Yomi - it will be nice to see Dai Oni have a chance to shine as the toughest recruitable units in the game.

[don_Pablo]

Very attractive.:re:
But I have to skip because of having enough games.:o

[Psycho]

No time for a new game right now, but I wanted to say 'Hi'. Interesting settings, I'll watch this one to see how it goes.

[Zeldor]

Hmm... pick better map, please? :)

I guess I can play small game - Arco, Ermor or Kailasa for me. Dunno which one.

[PriestyMan]

i hope that map wraps around, otherwise it really is pretty terrible

[13lackGu4rd]

well, this would be a great game to test your EA Aby guide FL ;)

[Squirrelloid]

Water Queens are already virtually invincible in water. I'm not sure they need buffing. Especially not regeneration, since they already have something like regen 40.

[Squirrelloid]

Anyway, I'll give C'tis a go.

TC should probably not be on this list. Hopefully no sporting player will select them.

[Valerius]

Right, I forgot to mention that the map is optional! I've had this around for a while from when I batch generated a lot of maps. I like the fact that the water breaks up the map but it's true that the starts aren't even. So let's take that off the table. Any suggestions for a 12-15 prov/player map? I liked the Threelake map from CF 2 (and you'll notice some similarities to the map I had in mind for here) but I think the middle starts were definitely not as good as the corner starts. I think Streamlands has worked well in CF 3, though it has a few more water provinces than I had in mind.

Zeldor and Squirrelloid, I'll reserve spots for you. Psycho, sorry to hear you won't be back for a possible sweep of the Momentum games. FWIW, I did learn from Momentum 2 that late game you really need a decent amount of time so I'm not going to try to keep 48 hour hosting throughout as I had planned to do there. FL, hope you join as well - I think I gave Aby a nice little boost.

Squirrelloid, I agree with you about WQs and thought about not giving them anything but the additional 10% regen doesn't actually matter much underwater since it is already so high - but it is a nice bonus if you want to bring the two aquatic ones on land, and I was hoping to make that more of an option for them. I also just realized there was no need to list recuperation since they already have it (and one already has darkvision). The sailing thing just seemed cool so I added it on last minute.

[Valerius]

Also, I haven't posted the combined mod yet because I'll need the list of selected nations in order to set the tart summoning spells (and I also didn't add the banned sites yet since I remembered that at the last minute).

[Squirrelloid]

I actually like the earth cyclops, fwiw. I'd remove the Monstrum, since its the biggest let down. Maybe do what I did to it and give it a separate summons and clearmagic it. Because they make a fun troop but a really crappy commander (even with improved magic!).

[Valerius]

I'm open to that if people prefer the E cyclops. If we go that route I'm thinking D4/5 casting requirement, maybe Conj. 7/8; not sure about gem cost or if HP should stay at the boosted level or go to CBM level (the former partly depends on the latter). I'd also reduce the slots again on the off chance they get GoRed.

[Zeldor]

Valerius:

I think I can play anything that is not Agartha. Anyone wants to pick a nation for me? :)

I could win as Abysia again, but that'd be boring. I don't think their Warlocks need any boosts, they are good and with EDM you won't recruit many Anointeds.

TC is indeed too strong to be in the mix. Abysia may be too, with those nations and boost.

[ghoul31]

Agartha

[Valerius]

Valerius:

I think I can play anything that is not Agartha. Anyone wants to pick a nation for me? :)

I could win as Abysia again, but that'd be boring. I don't think their Warlocks need any boosts, they are good and with EDM you won't recruit many Anointeds.

TC is indeed too strong to be in the mix. Abysia may be too, with those nations and boost.

Hmm, if both you and Squirrelloid think TC is a problem I'll go ahead and remove them from the mix.

As far as Aby goes, maybe I'm underestimating them. I know you won with them ... but they seem so one dimensional to me. How about if I reduce the extra random to 25%?

Also, you asked for a random nation so I chose one: you will be playing Arco. Of course if you change your mind feel free to switch nations. :)

[Zeldor]

Sure, I can play Arco, unless someone really wants it :) All other nations [except Agartha] look fine enough. I can even play last unpicked one.

Abysia is not so one dimensional. Sure, big part of it is, but it's great at what it does. Burning Ones are one of the best sacreds around. Warlocks are great mages and give you blood and tough communions. And you get EDM for Zmeys, Ember Lords, etc. You can afford dormant rainbow with E9. And you get 120 free design points.

My game was a bit weird thougj, I had Ultimate Gateway and I was fighting Lanka with blood40 site for victory. So insane amounts of summons on both sides.

[Valerius]

Sure, I can play Arco, unless someone really wants it :) All other nations [except Agartha] look fine enough. I can even play last unpicked one.

Well, ghoul31 rescued you from Agartha. ;) So, if anyone reading this would like Arco let Zeldor know and we'll roll him a new nation.

Warlocks are great mages and give you blood and tough communions.

I think this is part of the reason I have a bad impression of them: I compare them to the MA warlocks (one of my favorite mages in the game) and they seem so lacking. But I certainly don't want to eliminate OP nations and then create another one, so I'm changing that random to 25%.

What I'm trying to balance is that we have two blood nations in the game. Pan has expensive, but recruit everywhere, mages. Aby has cap only, but cheap, mages. I'd like them be evenly matched when it comes to blood magic capabilities (of course if only one is chosen this won't matter).

[Graeme Dice]

Nobody is playing Ermor? Then I'll grab them.

[Action]

The Earth Cyclops isn't that exciting, but he is still really nice as a generic grunt type of thug, and the extra earth is nice for the rituals, army buffs (army of gold/lead anyone?) and forgings.

The spirit is probably a better choice for removal than the earth cyclops, as the spirit has fixed paths, not particularly good paths, awful stats (8 defense!) and no feet slot for earth boots/winged boots, and is extremely slow moving in battle.

So while the Earth Cyclops is superb flying raider, army buffer and generic thug, the spirit is more of a ... gnome lore caster, and inferior army buffer.

[13lackGu4rd]

Valerius, Frozen Lama wrote a very nice guide on EA Abysia, showing how to turn away from their 1 trick pony image. I agree that EA Abysia is pretty strong, especially compared to the nation pool available, and yes I agree that TC doesn't belong here.

[Valerius]

Due to popular demand the earth cyclops is back! I'm going to basically copy Squirrelloid's monstrum spell from his balance mod and we'll make that a separate troop summon (the only differences being 12 gem cost instead of 10 and 200 HP instead of 232).

Action, interesting comments on the spirit. I can't say I've used them all that much. On paper it seems like they might be decent for crowd control if they cast soul vortex. I could give them a HP or regen boost to make them more like the EK since I've always thought their HP were on the low side compared to other tarts.

[Valerius]

Valerius, Frozen Lama wrote a very nice guide on EA Abysia, showing how to turn away from their 1 trick pony image. I agree that EA Abysia is pretty strong, especially compared to the nation pool available, and yes I agree that TC doesn't belong here.

Yeah, it looks like I got TC wrong. Luckily, nobody had chosen them yet so it was easy to pull them out.

It also doesn't seem like there's much support for a boost for Aby so I'm leaning towards removing the boost I gave them...

Anyway, thanks everyone for the feedback!

[Squirrelloid]

if anyone needs a boost its Agartha. But we have a volunteer as is =).

[PriestyMan]

don't get me wrong, EA aby is not a strong nation by any means. they fit into this game just fine. they are for sure one of the weakest EA nations. me and zeldor have just shown recently that they *can* be played and turned into a good nation

[Valerius]

Ok, based on the comments I've removed the change to Aby's warlocks.

As far as maps go, the main candidates I've come up with are Streamlands (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44093) and Land of Ethereal Squirrels (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44084) (both wraparound). Streamlands has played well in CF 3, while LoES will provide a nice average of 13 provs/player as well as 13 water provinces to fight over.

[Aethyr]

Valerius, sounds interesting; I'd join if I was not already at my game limit.

[Valerius]

Hi, Aethyr. Sorry to hear that, but it is best to stick with game limits or turns go from being fun to a chore...

[Valerius]

Ok, I've attached the mod to the first post. This will be the only mod you need active when creating your pretender since it incorporates CBM and EDM. Please let me know if you notice any errors.

A couple small things. I didn't consider that giving sailing to an aquatic unit let's them sail onto land and promptly die after fighting any battles. So I removed sailing from the two aquatic WQs (left it on the amphibious one). I also want to note that tarts will not have that annoying shattered soul attribute.

Also, I gave all eligible nations tart summoning spells in case we get a last minute player or someone wants to change nations.

The game is on the llamaserver and is called Momentum3. Currently I have the Streamlands map that was already on the llamaserver selected. I believe we used random starts in CF 3 and that went ok but I attached a sample of possible fixed starts to the first post, in case there's a preference for that.

[Valerius]

How about we aim for a Saturday start? So far we have two pretenders in.

[Zeldor]

But did we pick a map? Do we have all players? Etc?

[Valerius]

Well, we've got six players. It would be nice to get another two but I don't want to hold up the game too long and people lose interest... But I changed the first post to indicate we are still recruiting.

As far as maps go, I was thinking either Streamlands or Land of Ethereal Squirrels. For six players Streamlands seems better. We can go with either random start locations or preset (see first post for a sample of preset locations).

[odeoderok]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the forum, but have played 4 MP games with a group of friends. If you're still recruiting, I'd very much like to join with Ulm (or maybe Kailasa or Marverni, but most probably Ulm).

-Otso

[Squirrelloid]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the forum, but have played 4 MP games with a group of friends. If you're still recruiting, I'd very much like to join with Ulm (or maybe Kailasa or Marverni, but most probably Ulm).

-Otso

I'd recommend Marveni or Kailasa over Ulm, especially as you don't have much experience. EA Ulm is pretty bad even by bad nation standards. (Not as bad as EA Agartha, but well, no one is).

[Valerius]

Welcome to the game, odeoderok! I will mark you down for Ulm for now but keep Squirrelloid's advice in mind and just let me know if you decide to switch nations.

[sansanjuan]

I'll take that last slot. Whatever nation would be fit would be fine with me. I'm outclassed but enjoy learning as I'm crushed. ;)
ssj
Sunday start ok?

[Squirrelloid]

hey sansanjuan,
looking at the nations left, we have Marveni, Kailasa, Abysia, and Pangaea.

Pan and Aby are blood nations. Not only that, they're blood nations that make it inconvenient to really use that blood power. (EA Aby's blood mages are capital only, making it difficult to really start a blood economy. Pan's mages are expensive, making blood summons pricier than for other nations). The micromanagement involved in running a blood nation is also much higher than for other nations.

Kailasa has pretty decent recruitable sacreds, good thuggable cap-only commanders, but is weak against archers.

Marveni has an at-best average array of troop choices, but great mages (even if expensive). They can also blood sacrifice, although they have no recruitable hunters so breaking into blood is hard.

I'd probably recommend one of Marveni or Kailasa for less experienced players, with Kailasa probably being the easier one to grok. But Abysia's early game is pretty straightforward, so if you're willing to take a stab at blood, Abysia is a good choice. (Frozenlama also just wrote a guide for them that might help, on the other forum).

[Valerius]

Welcome, sansanjuan! I think a Sunday start is fine.

So now that we have 8 players we need to finalize a map and decide whether we want random or fixed start locations. Opinions?

[Zeldor]

Well, consider Arco free too - I did not start making pretender yet :) I can play any nation except Agartha.

[Zeldor]

Or forget it, I feel like making Arco pretender now :)

[sansanjuan]

hey sansanjuan,
looking at the nations left, we have Marveni, Kailasa, Abysia, and Pangaea.

Pan and Aby are blood nations. Not only that, they're blood nations that make it inconvenient to really use that blood power. (EA Aby's blood mages are capital only, making it difficult to really start a blood economy. Pan's mages are expensive, making blood summons pricier than for other nations). The micromanagement involved in running a blood nation is also much higher than for other nations.
G
Kailasa has pretty decent recruitable sacreds, good thuggable cap-only commanders, but is weak against archers.

Marveni has an at-best average array of troop choices, but great mages (even if expensive). They can also blood sacrifice, although they have no recruitable hunters so breaking into blood is hard.

I'd probably recommend one of Marveni or Kailasa for less experienced players, with Kailasa probably being the easier one to grok. But Abysia's early game is pretty straightforward, so if you're willing to take a stab at blood, Abysia is a good choice. (Frozenlama also just wrote a guide for them that might help, on the other forum).
S
Roger that. I'll take a peek tonight and let you know asap.

[sansanjuan]

ALL SHALL YIELD TO MARVERNI AND SON OF SHUNT!
Umm.. unless they don't want to...

-ssj

Will upload tomorrow

[Valerius]

Ok, it looks like it will be a bloodless game! First post updated with final nation selections.

Also, I've attached some proposed start locations for Land of Ethereal Squirrels. Any opinions?

[Zeldor]

It looks like around 8 provs per player. Didn't we want a normal game, just with weaker nations? We should play normal then at around 12-16 provs/player.

[Valerius]

We'll be using Land of Ethereal Squirrels, which has 103 land and 13 water (we have 8 players so that's about 14 provinces/player). I haven't uploaded it to the llamaserver yet because I wanted to wait in case there were any changes to my proposed start locations (see my previous post).

[Zeldor]

Oh, looking at the attached image it looked like closer to 8/player :)

[Valerius]

I see what you mean - it does look like fewer than 14 provinces average.

BTW, since I don't yet have the map uploaded yet I have autostart off. I'll upload it in the next few hours and then activate autostart again. I just have this feeling that the moment I upload it I'll find an error or need to change a start position. :)

[Squirrelloid]

oh yeah, pretender, um, let me dig that up, i have it here somewhere...

[Valerius]

Three pretenders to go but I figured you guys were just going to send them in at the end of the weekend.

BTW, we are going to have a good pace on this game and it's always a plus to avoid roll-back debates. I try to check for postponement requests as close to hosting time as possible. But occasionally my last check will be 5-6 hours before hosting. Would anyone like to volunteer to be backup admin? Obviously it's a plus if you are on the forums fairly frequently.

[Valerius]

Ok, the game has begun!

May you all prosper under the wise rule of the Tuatha. :)

[Squirrelloid]

I'd be willing to be backup admin Valerius.

[13lackGu4rd]

w00t we finally started. took you guys long enough...

[Valerius]

I'd be willing to be backup admin Valerius.

Thanks, sending you the password now.

w00t we finally started. took you guys long enough...

It has been quite a wait for you - you were the first to sign up and the first to send in a pretender (I think just a couple of hours after I setup the game). But Momentum 2 also got off to a slow start and then we got rolling and had the fastest early game I've experienced, so maybe the same will happen here (6 out of 8 turns in 3 hours after hosting is a good sign).

[Valerius]

Nice pace we've got going! Everyone's doing a good job of immediately completing their next turn when they are the last to submit a turn.

[Valerius]

I'm a little concerned Zeldor's turn isn't in yet. I won't be around at hosting time and I'm not sure Squirrelloid will be either so I'm going to add some time to the clock.

While there's a good argument to be made that Zeldor is an OP player and should be nerfed, a stale during expansion is probably not the way to do it. ;)

[Valerius]

Odeoderok, please turn on PMs.

[Zeldor]

I was sure I submitted the turn before going to sleep, can you change reminders to 10 or 12h? :)

[Valerius]

Sure, I changed it to 10 hours.

Also just realized between my last posts and now everyone has their turns in. I'll get to work on mine ASAP!

[odeoderok]

PMs are on now, sorry about that. I didn't realize you had to specifically allow them.

[Valerius]

Thanks. Understandable you wouldn't know to do that. I think most people would assume they were turned on by default (and I thought they used to be).

[Zeldor]

Anyone has some F gems for sale? :)

[Squirrelloid]

With apologies, i want some time to think about the current turn, and i have friends from out of town over this weekend, so i'm extending the game 24h.

[Valerius]

Zeldor will be away for about a week so LoloMo (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=8844) is going to sub for him.

[LoloMo]

Hi! I will be subbing for Zeldor for a week. If you have any messages for Arcos, send them to me, or contact me through IRC.

[Valerius]

Odeoderok isn't certain he'll be able submit turns on Wed./Thurs. I'll keep an eye on hosting on those days and postpone if needed.

[sansanjuan]

I'm AWOL Thur through Monday. I can submit late Monday evening CST. Is that too long w/o a sub? I will post for a sub if the rest of you feel that is a bit too long a delay.
-ssj

[Valerius]

I'm AWOL Thur through Monday. I can submit late Monday evening CST. Is that too long w/o a sub? I will post for a sub if the rest of you feel that is a bit too long a delay.
-ssj

If you can find a sub that you feel comfortable handing the reigns too, then sure that would work well. But we are close to switching to 48 hour hosting so, if there are no objections, I think we could put the game on hold for that time.

[LoloMo]

I have no objections to waiting till Monday, although I'm only a sub for Zeldor.

[Valerius]

I think we'll probably do that but everyone please note that both odeoderok and sansanjuan have their current turns in so we are still on regular hosting.

[Squirrelloid]

sorry, i need a short delay, will probably submit in the morning.

[Valerius]

No problem; ssj managed to complete this turn but after this host we'll be on pause until Monday.

[Valerius]

Hosting has been postponed until 5:50 GMT Tuesday. When play resumes we will be on 48 hour hosting.

BTW, this last turn was full of action! I didn't see all of the battles but a lot of armies went down sharply in size.

[Valerius]

FYI, Zeldor is back and has resumed command of Arco.

[Valerius]

I see ssj has returned and Marverni's turn is in. However, Zeldor needs some time to get up to speed on Arco's situation so I've delayed hosting by 16 hours.

[sansanjuan]

I'm back. Sorry for the delay. Especially on such a well paced game.
-ssj

[13lackGu4rd]

well, I'm out. with only my capital remaining(under siege), and my lab destroyed due to arcane fire, there really is nothing more I can do. good job Marverni+Ulm.

hope to see y'all in more games, good luck to all the remaining players. turned myself AI, just finish it off when you finally break the walls Marverni.

[Valerius]

Thanks for playing BG and for hanging in there so long!

And actually the same goes for several players who have had setbacks but not given up fighting. :up:

[Zeldor]

BG:

Huh, turning AI is bad. You can always script whatever you have left in a better way. And AI will just break siege and fail at it badly.

[13lackGu4rd]

meh, with the research I have there just isn't anything useful I can cast to really make a difference. it's not like I got some massive high level evocations I can use or anything like that... as soon as he breaks the walls it'll be over no matter what I do...

[Squirrelloid]

I'm going to be postponing the current turn until monday, since I accidentally forgot the external HD with dom3 on it. Sorry =P

[Valerius]

I guess you can use the time to get another arcade championship. You've been accumulating those about as fast as HoF victories. :p Claiming Micah's Snake Champion title was a particularly bold move.

[Zeldor]

Hah, trying to kill me still? I told you it's a bad idea :) Funny that some prefer to pursue war with me that they cannot win, when some others are happily researching, stockpiling gems and just waiting to win the game :)

[Valerius]

Hey, that's not nice to try to turn people against the peaceful Tuatha! Maybe Tir should help the others kill off Arco once and for all. :)

[sansanjuan]

Just a heads up.
Having trouble finding a sub for this Tue thru Sunday.
ssj

[Valerius]

Since you are in the middle of a war what does everyone think about putting the game on hold until ssj returns?

[Zeldor]

I have nothing against it.

[Valerius]

ssj, if you can manage one more turn before you leave I could add 24-48 hours to the clock for this turn and then whatever is needed when you return. So we'd have one hosting midway through.

[sansanjuan]

ssj, if you can manage one more turn before you leave I could add 24-48 hours to the clock for this turn and then whatever is needed when you return. So we'd have one hosting midway through.

Will do. Sorry I couldn't find a sub. Have a great week all.
-ssj

[Valerius]

ssj, if you can manage one more turn before you leave I could add 24-48 hours to the clock for this turn and then whatever is needed when you return. So we'd have one hosting midway through.

Will do. Sorry I couldn't find a sub. Have a great week all.
-ssj

Thanks for doing that. You have a good week as well.

I've postponed hosting for the current turn by 48 hours. New hosting time is 6:50 GMT Friday.

[Squirrelloid]

Yay, don't have to ask for an extension! (with apologies for the stale, but visiting niece + nephew and driving a car cross-country has left less time than i imagined to actually do turns, much less at predictable times that actually worked for the hosting times.)

[Zeldor]

So how about we all start dealing with real problem, which is TNN? Why so many hostilities, when we should be united? What's the purpose of Ermor fighting C'tis, when TNN just runs away? And why is Marverni and Ulm allowing TNN to grab what's theirs? What are they going to do now, when they have nothing to attack and get killed by?

[Valerius]

Well, I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be.

I'll start with gem income since that's the main thing that stands out. I do have a large lead in gem income, mostly due to my globals. Having been at peace I've also had a chance to site search my provinces more thoroughly than some nations that have been at war for a while. So I definitely do have a large lead there. But it's worth pointing out that I can't leverage that into a game winning global as I could in a normal game. I can get more summons and equip more thugs (assuming I can afford the thugs) but those numbers can be matched by any two nations allying against me. What I can't do is cost FotA or AN to make that advantage in gem income a true force multiplier.

Once we move past gem income there's really nothing that stands out about my position on the charts. Provinces and income are in line with several other nations (and note that my province count has been inflated this turn due to raiding several of your provinces that I won't be able to hold on to).

My research is high but that's purely because until last turn I was able to devote almost every mage to research. My research capability has already dropped sharply due to the mages I sent against you. I actually think you maintaining the research lead with the limited resources you had is far more impressive. And it's also worth noting you are the only one with Constr. 8 and artifacts.

As far as provinces go, I think you misunderstand my intent. I'm not jumping in to try to steal your provinces from Ulm and Marverni. If I can keep one or two of your land provinces (I'm not asking for your cap, either) and the two sea provinces I just took I'd be happy. I fully expect this war will cost me more than I'm going to gain from it.

And there's another thing to consider. I've been in stronger positions than this and lost. Don't underestimate my ability to screw things up. ;)

[Valerius]

I postponed hosting by 24 hours to give ssj some time when he returns.

[Zeldor]

You postponed for ssj, who made turn ages ago and now for yourself? Everyone should declare war on you :)

[Valerius]

Really sorry about that! I keep second guessing myself. I promise I'll play quicker after this turn. I'm not exactly setting a good example and keeping the "momentum" going. ;)

[Valerius]

Ok, turn is finally in! :)

[Zeldor]

Huh, WTF? 4h reminder emails? Is it some sabotage?

[Valerius]

Just saw that myself. As far as I know, only Squirrelloid and I have the admin password. I didn't change the reminder interval.

But you know what, I noticed a few hours ago that the llamaserver gave a last updated time from Wed. so I think it was locked up and when llama fixed it probably all the queued requests were processed.

Should I put more time on the clock?

[Zeldor]

Nah, I will be fine. It was just a joke with that sabotage :) I noticed llamaserver being weird too, so it must be that.

[Zeldor]

You may need to add some for C'tis though. Hmm... add 2h for me too :) So I won't rush it [not much to do, but still...]. And did I seduce your scout or what?

[Valerius]

You may need to add some for C'tis though. Hmm... add 2h for me too :) So I won't rush it [not much to do, but still...].

Ok, I added 6 hours to the clock. But I'm holding myself to the original deadline to make up for my delays last turn. ;)

And did I seduce your scout or what?

Lol. I was looking all over trying to find out which mage I'd lost and then realized it was one of my decoy scouts. So he served his purpose - to take a hit for the team. :)

[Zeldor]

Huh, there is smth wrong with the game - it staled me, even though I submitted the turn like 5-6h ago. Can I get it fixed?

[Squirrelloid]

Not that i was doing much with my turn, but the reminder email was all screwy. 4h warning? ouch.

I was just about to submit one when i got the new turn, which rather surprised me, because when i got the reminder email i figured it was for a reasonable amount of time.

[Valerius]

#$%@&! I got back to my computer right after the game hosted or I would have extended the deadline. Ok folks, it looks like we had a problem with the server not receiving a turn(s) that were sent in before the deadline. So that means we get the fun of dealing with a roll-back situation... Please don't send in any new turns until we discuss.

[Valerius]

Normally technical issues with the server are a pretty clear cut reason for a roll-back but there's always a downside in terms of plans given away, random events changed, etc. In any case, the worst thing is to roll-back without everyone knowing about it so please comment if you have an opinion on this.

Zeldor, if we roll-back can you resend your turn without changes? That way Arco-Ulm-Marverni-TNN only need to deal with new random events and not have to redo our turns. Squirrelloid, was your turn done and about to be sent (or resent in the case of a roll-back) or were you still working on it?

[Zeldor]

Nope, I was not working on it. You granted 6h more, but I sent the turn like 5h before the new deadline and just went to bed without checking it.

I can submit it without any changes - just forward the email that I sent earlier. There wasn't anything happening on stale turn anyway.

[Valerius]

I can submit it without any changes - just forward the email that I sent earlier. There wasn't anything happening on stale turn anyway.

Luckily, aside from globals it does seem to have been a quiet turn. Much worse to have to roll-back a turn in which closely fought major battles have taken place.

I'll wait a bit so everyone has a chance to check in and then, barring objections, I'll roll-back and you and Squirrelloid can resubmit your turns.

[Squirrelloid]

my turn was done and about to be sent, and i have not looked at the new turn. (And seriously, just about all i;m doing is buy units and change research).

[Valerius]

I'm tempted to re-host now since you're both online to send your turns but I think it wiser to wait for everyone else to learn the situation. Also, I wonder if the server is still rejecting e-mails? Squirrelloid, you and I should know shortly since the Battleground turns are due in a couple of hours.

[Zeldor]

It is accepting turns, just checked.

[Squirrelloid]

it accepted my warthog turn just before i was going to send this one.

[Valerius]

Ok, it's been 12 hours since I sent out the notice. I think the lack of comments means everyone is fine with rolling back so I will do that now.

In case any of you haven't dealt with a roll back before, it's very simple - you don't have to do anything. The llamaserver still has last turn's files, with of course the exception of Arco and C'tis. You can ignore the fact that the llamaserver says it is waiting for turns - only Zeldor and Squirrelloid need to send their files. Once that is done the game will be force hosted and we'll be back on track.

Squirrelloid, if you see Zeldor's turn already in feel free to force hosting once you've sent yours.

[Valerius]

Ok, the game is rolled back and I'll mention again that only Zeldor and Squirrelloid need to send their turns - you can ignore the .trn file you just received from the llamaserver.

[Valerius]

The game has rehosted. The one thing we'll still want to be careful about is to make sure we don't send in a .2h from the old turn as that can cause problems with the next turn.

[Zeldor]

I really should be flattered - everyone treats me like I'm winning the game and running away. Why is that? Did we have some house rule not to look at score graphs? :)

Marverni: I told you not to move your armies near me. Unless your goal was to lower upkeep considerably.

[sansanjuan]

I really should be flattered - everyone treats me like I'm winning the game and running away. Why is that? Did we have some house rule not to look at score graphs? :)

Marverni: I told you not to move your armies near me. Unless your goal was to lower upkeep considerably.

They are ready for a spanking...
-Marverni

[Squirrelloid]

sorry for abusing my admin privileges. I promise this turn is going to get done...

[Valerius]

Holy crap, I just watched a battle replay of Arco's Sickle equipped golem. That item generates insane amounts of D gems. And all you have to do is kill some chaff. Now I understand why Sickle farming is frequently banned - I'd never actually seen it in action before. No wonder you're able to put up Well of Misery so quickly after I dispel it. ;)

[Zeldor]

Give me like 6h more while we are at it :)

And stop winning, ok?

[Valerius]

Give me like 6h more while we are at it :)

Done. I was thinking of adding time anyway since I wouldn't have been around at the scheduled hosting. And I actually added 8 hours which I think will also cover the time Squirrelloid is usually online.

And stop winning, ok?

Winning? My Zeldor paranoia, which as you know was already high, has only been increased after seeing the Sickle in action. :)

But everyone can be happy that most of my global income just gets alchemized to dispel your Well of Misery castings. :rolleyes:

[Zeldor]

That's probably the worst way to spend it, but I should be happy. You could have used it on something to really do some harm :)

[Valerius]

That's probably the worst way to spend it, but I should be happy. You could have used it on something to really do some harm :)

Well, it was definitely the worst way to spend it this past turn. That's a lot of gems I wasted in that failed dispel attempt... :hurt:


In other news, I certainly didn't expect Agartha to attack, and breach the walls of, my underwater fort. Edit: actually it did cross my mind when I saw that large force neighboring my province since he hadn't attacked in that direction before - but I figured though he was attacking Ulm and my water provinces he wouldn't actually go for a fort. Foolish me.:)

[ghoul31]

Well since ctis and ermor have attacking me the entire game, I though things might be more peaceful on the water

[Valerius]

Well since ctis and ermor have attacking me the entire game, I though things might be more peaceful on the water

At first I was kind of annoyed when you attacked me in the water but it was a good move - what were Ulm and I going to do, declare war on you? You're already fully booked in that department. :)

I knew you were tenacious from CF 2 but you've taken it to a new level here, charging all over the place and never giving up. :up:

[Zeldor]

Valerius:

I told you - attacking me is pretty much never worth it :)

[Valerius]

Actually, I wish I had attacked you earlier instead of turtling. There were several times when your pretender was operating in Ulm's territory that I was tempted to kill him with a few thugs. It's a lot harder killing your SCs now with all the gear they've got (which of course I helped contribute to by trading with you :doh:).

And soon enough you'll be adding death summons to the roster.

So, I agree with your point about avoiding a fight with you but if it is inevitable I figure far better to do it early game than late game.

[Zeldor]

Well, you always had an option to not attack me at all, so I could continue my eternal struggle with Ulm and Marv. Now they want to help you win, by not attacking you. I'm not sure if Ulm could harm you though, he took really hard beating.

Anyway, find some solution to end this game soon, there is CBM 1.7 with huge changes, so time to start another game :)

[Valerius]

Well, you always had an option to not attack me at all, so I could continue my eternal struggle with Ulm and Marv. Now they want to help you win, by not attacking you. I'm not sure if Ulm could harm you though, he took really hard beating.

You might be right about that but you have to remember my Zeldor paranoia. What if you had won? ;)

Anyway, find some solution to end this game soon, there is CBM 1.7 with huge changes, so time to start another game :)

Yeah, I saw that. Life is tough for the glamour nations. :( And a level 0 FotA for Ulm? That doesn't seem like it will stick. Oh well, have to see how it plays out and of course one can always mod the mod.

But I think this game has quite a ways to go. After the current set of wars, at least one more, maybe two. And you can only blame yourself for fighting so hard and now casting (and keeping) WoM - I think you'll be around for quite a while. :)

[Zeldor]

I plan to be here forever. I sometime wish I was less efficient, so I could just join another game. But my survival skills are just stronger than me and I can't just give up without fight. I can still get bribed to sign peace though, so you could do something different :P Ulm and Marverni can go free if they prefer to fight you :) I really should have been killed like 20 turns ago. Just compare size, gem income etc of me and my enemies.

[Valerius]

I plan to be here forever. I sometime wish I was less efficient, so I could just join another game. But my survival skills are just stronger than me and I can't just give up without fight.

Understood - and I'm not surprised to hear that. And actually everyone has done a good job in that area. Aside from myself, everyone has been fighting for quite a while and no one has given up.

I really should have been killed like 20 turns ago. Just compare size, gem income etc of me and my enemies.

To me that only indicates that the anti-Arco alliance needs more members. Sign up now before it's too late and Arco's won! :)

[sansanjuan]

V,
Could you postpone for 6 hrs? Tough day.
-ssj

[Valerius]

Done. Actually, I was going to need some more time as well. I added 12 hours to the clock.

[Zeldor]

Another extension? Really? When was the last time there was a turn that wasn't extended?

[Valerius]

I just sent in my turn and noticed there's still two turns missing. I won't be at the computer around hosting time so I'm adding some time to the clock as a precaution.

[Zeldor]

Add me 12h to the timer :)

[Valerius]

Done (I was actually going to need a few hours extra time myself).

[Zeldor]

Give me like 8h more, it will be few h till I get to my computer with dominions.

[Squirrelloid]

Hey Ermor, rather than massing at my border, try attacking someone who either (1) could actually win the game. If you do attack me, well, lets just say your lack of research is showing. It'll be painful, and I doubt 500 troops will last very long.

[Valerius]

Zeldor, I just got back to the computer. Looks like you managed to get in your turn, though?

Btw, you completely fooled me at your cap. I was expecting a strong defense and now I'm kicking myself for just sending in a scout to take a look. :doh:

[Zeldor]

Well, I was dead long time ago, dunno why you were thinking otherwise :)

BTW, maybe we should call the game and call TNN winner? It looks like he is the only one interested in winning it actually...

And yeah, I somehow managed to dl, play and submit turn within 2 minutes. Even missed the fact that Ulm is storming my other fort and he lost to 4 unscripted Mystics :P

[Valerius]

Well, I was dead long time ago, dunno why you were thinking otherwise :)

Well, you've done a lot of damage with limited resources so I was expecting the worst. :)

BTW, maybe we should call the game and call TNN winner? It looks like he is the only one interested in winning it actually...

But then I'll miss out on the dogpile that I know is coming... ;)

And yeah, I somehow managed to dl, play and submit turn within 2 minutes. Even missed the fact that Ulm is storming my other fort and he lost to 4 unscripted Mystics :P

Sorry about the rush - the hosting was at a bad time for me to be able to check that turns were in.


Everyone, please note we've made our final change in hosting interval, to 72 hours.

[Zeldor]

Well, damages were mostly because of mistakes made by my enemies :)

And I somehow doubt in that dogpiling vs you. It should have already happened. And if it's as effective as against me then well... it will be boring :P You have way way more resources.

[Squirrelloid]

It is Thanksgiving week in the US, and many of us may not be near a computer. Adding 12h to the current turn just in case, and don't be surprised if other extensions occur.

(Also applies to battleground as well Valerius, over which I have no administrative powers).

[Valerius]

No turn from C'tis yet, so I'm adding more time to the clock.

[Valerius]

I need some more time and we've got two other turns missing so I'm adding 12 hours to the clock.

[Squirrelloid]

Arco's turn is still out, and zeldor isn't saying anything on irc, so i'm adding 12h, but probably getting my turn in not too long from now.

[Zeldor]

I'd like to dedicate my game to 3 unscripted Mystics that won 3rd storm attempt by Ulm already :)

[sansanjuan]

V,
Could you put 24 on the clock? I'm away.
-ssj

[Valerius]

Could you put 24 on the clock? I'm away.

Yes, of course. Hosting postponed 24 hours.

I'd like to dedicate my game to 3 unscripted Mystics that won 3rd storm attempt by Ulm already :)

Looks like they're trying to get into the HoF. :)


Btw, I just noticed Agartha went AI. Thanks for playing ghoul31. That was quite a display of persistence. Every time I thought you were finished you summoned another batch of elementals and went charging off in a new direction.

[Valerius]

That's it for Arco. Thanks for playing, Zeldor. You inflicted a lot of damage with limited resources (I'm just realizing now how poor your provinces were in gold/gem income).

Sorry about the dogpile. Well, kind of sorry. As you know, I didn't really want to face you 1 vs 1 and I was quite paranoid you'd actually make a comeback despite the odds being against you. :)

[Zeldor]

Oh, I forgot to submit my turn with smth scripted. It wouldn't change much, but well...

And yeah, I should have been dead 20 turns ago, when I got stuck in 1:2 war against opponents that had 3-5x more resources each. My provs were properly site searched, so you see my luck for sites :)

[Valerius]

Still three turns missing (including my own) so I've postponed hosting by 12 hours.

[Valerius]

Once again, three turns missing (including my own) so hosting postponed by 12 hours.

[Squirrelloid]

for reasons of schedule, it'll be much more convenient for me if its delayed another 12h, and so it is done.

[Valerius]

Well, that was unfortunate. Despite the fact that the server said it accepted Squirrelloid's delay it doesn't appear that was actually the case. I just missed the previous hosting time by a few minutes and of course Squirrelloid wasn't going to send his turn until later so we both staled.

I haven't looked at my turn in case we do rollback. But if Squirrelloid is ok with the stale then let's just keep playing as I prefer to avoid rollbacks if possible.

[Squirrelloid]

its fine, i'm sure nothing is broken =P

[Valerius]

Ok, then let's play on. The really annoying thing is all the time I wasted on the last turn. :mad:

And it looks like Ermor is the recipient of Arco's unique items (or some of them anyway). I was wondering why his army hadn't moved yet and now I realize it was because they had the Flying Ship. :doh:

[Valerius]

Our next hosting is scheduled for 21:50 GMT Friday. Can everyone make that time or is it too far into the holiday weekend?

[Valerius]

I see there's still a couple of turns missing so I've postponed hosting until Monday.

[Valerius]

I've postponed hosting by 24 hours due to the holiday weekend. If anyone needs more time let me know.

In other news, I'm really growing to hate lychantropos' amulets. :mad:

[Valerius]

We've reached the point in the game that we're seeing increasing numbers of SCs and I'm noticing lots of tarts and EDM summons but not much in the way of elemental royalty so I thought I'd remind everyone about them. Sure they cost more than other SCs (except Ember Lords) but they've got some nice boosts (more HP, 10% regen, recuperation, 100% darkvision) that I think make them worthwhile. If not, then I'll have to revisit them next time as I really do like the idea of non-unique elemental royalty.

I also noticed an error in the first post. It says that WQs have sailing. That was my intention but in last minute testing I noticed it allowed the two aquatic WQs to travel onto land and drown themselves. This seemed like it was just asking for trouble so I only gave the amphibious Queen of Lakes sailing (I didn't want to make the other two WQs amphibious as well). I haven't seen anyone summon any WQs but thought I'd mention it in case someone was planning on them all having sailing.

[Valerius]

A few turns missing so 24 hours added to the clock.

[sansanjuan]

V,
Could you bump the turn 24 hrs? Busy week.
-ssj

[Valerius]

Sure, 24 hours have been added.

[odeoderok]

Hello everybody!

I'll be going on a week-long holiday from this friday. Hurmio has kindly agreed to sub for me, if no one objects, that is.

Ulm

[Valerius]

Sure, Hurmio is welcome to spend a few turns taking your place in beating up TNN. ;)

E-mail has been changed so he will receive the next turn.

[sansanjuan]

Hello everybody!

I'll be going on a week-long holiday from this friday. Hurmio has kindly agreed to sub for me, if no one objects, that is.

Ulm

Welcome Hurmio!
-ssj

[Hurmio]

Hello everybody!

I'll be going on a week-long holiday from this friday. Hurmio has kindly agreed to sub for me, if no one objects, that is.

Ulm

Welcome Hurmio!
-ssj

Thanks! I will be subbing just for 2 turns or so. Hopefully i will not damage Odeode's empire too badly.

[Squirrelloid]

So, I feel like I'm just making maintenance turns, and my head really isn't in this game. I think I'm going to post for a sub, since I'm really not doing my position justice.

[sansanjuan]

V
Could you bump the timer 48 hrs? Out of town ATM.
ssj

[Valerius]

No problem, hosting has been postponed 48 hours. I'll actually need the time as well to look over C'tis' position and try to get an idea what to do with my new combined TNN/C'tis empire (well, ok, it's mainly C'tis' empire ;)).

[sansanjuan]

I have a family vacation coming up next week 3/26 thru 4/3 and have posted for a sub.
-ssj

[Valerius]

Please welcome Colonial to the game as the new leader of TNN. Thanks to him for subbing. :)

ssj, if you aren't able to find a sub we can wait until you return from vacation. It's certainly no time for a stale.

[Valerius]

Ok, since ssj is now on vacation I've postponed hosting for a week. It may actually be good that he wasn't able to find a sub since this turn C'tis' NAP with Marverni and Ulm ends and so he'll be around for the beginning moves of that war.

[sansanjuan]

V,
I'm back. So just to check... this turn may/will contain hostilities from C'tis?
-ssj

[Valerius]

Welcome back! You are correct - this turn the destruction of Marverni and Ulm commences. That's the plan anyway.

[sansanjuan]

V,
Could I get 24 on the clock?
-ssj

[Valerius]

Sure, hosting postponed 24 hours.

[sansanjuan]

V,
Could you attach 24 hrs? Just back from trip.
tnx
-ssj

[Squirrelloid]

V,
Could you attach 24 hrs? Just back from trip.
tnx
-ssj

Got it. (Still has his mod powaz)

[Valerius]

Sorry, I need to postpone hosting once again. The walls to my cap have been breached so I need to prepare a proper turn (especially after the stale last turn).

[sansanjuan]

Sorry, I need to postpone hosting once again. The walls to my cap have been breached so I need to prepare a proper turn (especially after the stale last turn).

Well played defense C'tis!
:hurt:
-Marverni

[Valerius]

Thanks, nice to get one win anyway. ;) With my immortal pretender and wraithlords I was pretty desperate to hold on to my cap. But I was lucky you only used a small part of your forces to try storming it.

[Valerius]

Interesting couple of turns, ssj. Definitely showcase the power of spamming spells that attack MR. Don't know what I was thinking sending those SCs to province 28 except that I didn't have enough forces left to to defend against a second storm attempt and I really didn't want to lose that province. Still, based on the scouting report I should have teleported in a tart to cast rain of stones. Oh well, enjoy the enslaved tarts you just acquired. ;)

In a happier bit of news, C'tis has broken the siege of its capitol, led by its wish empowered, GoH boosted, immortal lich pretender. A wise use of gems? Probably not. But quite fun! :p

[sansanjuan]

Interesting couple of turns, ssj. Definitely showcase the power of spamming spells that attack MR. Don't know what I was thinking sending those SCs to province 28 except that I didn't have enough forces left to to defend against a second storm attempt and I really didn't want to lose that province. Still, based on the scouting report I should have teleported in a tart to cast rain of stones. Oh well, enjoy the enslaved tarts you just acquired. ;)

In a happier bit of news, C'tis has broken the siege of its capitol, led by its wish empowered, GoH boosted, immortal lich pretender. A wise use of gems? Probably not. But quite fun! :p

Hats off on a very effective defense of the C'tis Cap. RoS is certainly wildly effective against my fragile mages when cast before a mass armor spell. Marverni generals were foolishly hoping for at least some attrition...

I'm thinking the enslaved tarts will be nearly useless given my mages spammed them with an obscene amount of horror marks prior to enslaving them:doh:.

I am traveling this week and may not get my turn in. Please extend the turn if it looks like I'm in danger of staling.

-Marverni and ssj

[Valerius]

I am traveling this week and may not get my turn in. Please extend the turn if it looks like I'm in danger of staling.

Sure, I'll keep an eye on things. Adding 24 hours to the clock now since there are no turns in yet.

[sansanjuan]

Could you add 24 to the clock? Tnx!
-ssj

[Valerius]

Sure, time has been added.

[Colonial]

Not gunna lie, I think this last turn will prove the straw that broke the camels back for TNN.

I will play out a couple more turns, then consider going AI...

[sansanjuan]

Not gunna lie, I think this last turn will prove the straw that broke the camels back for TNN.

I will play out a couple more turns, then consider going AI...

That camel seems to go for months with no water. Well played whatever you decide to do.
-ssj

[Valerius]

Yes, nice job fighting the good fight against the evil Ulm/Marverni alliance. ;) Thanks for subbing in so that we didn't have to have a nation go AI while it still had considerable fighting strength left.

[Colonial]

Yup, AI.

Nice game Gentlemen.

[Valerius]

Tough couple of turns for the lizards. :hurt: Last turn I lost most of my skelly spamming corps and my cap was placed under siege again. This turn my pretender failed to kill even a single thug/SC in his battle with Marverni's forces. Definitely hurts losing all that gear. On the plus side, there's less micro each turn. :)

[sansanjuan]

Tough couple of turns for the lizards. :hurt: Last turn I lost most of my skelly spamming corps and my cap was placed under siege again. This turn my pretender failed to kill even a single thug/SC in his battle with Marverni's forces. Definitely hurts losing all that gear. On the plus side, there's less micro each turn. :)


Note how I cleverly killed a 100 of my own units with wrathful skies last turn. Did not read anywhere that army of gold is -75% lightening resist.:doh:
-ssj

[Valerius]

Did not read anywhere that army of gold is -75% lightening resist.:doh:

I was worried you'd take advantage of that since I've been casting it frequently in my defense of my cap, but at least you didn't seem to have massed A mages so I didn't have the threat of thunderstrike spam in addition to wrathful skies.

Of course I couldn't be sure of this since I have limited scouting ability. When I took over C'tis I realized that they don't have recruitable scouts. Don't know what's up with that. Sure, I could see doing that to Hinnom - they deserve it ;) - but not EA C'tis. If someone chooses them in another game I admin I'll definitely give them a scout.

In other news, this was another rough turn for the opponents of Marverni and Ulm as Valerius, god of Tir na n'Og, was vanquished and the Tuatha withdrew from this world. Now only the lizards remain and the walls to their capitol have been breached. Well, time to throw everything I've got left into defense. :)

[Valerius]

What an idiotic way to lose my cap. :re: Guess that'll teach me to give too many extra gems to a vortex of returning caster. Kind of annoying to go out in such a pathetic way. Sure, defeat was inevitable, but to lose like that...

[sansanjuan]

What an idiotic way to lose my cap. :re: Guess that'll teach me to give too many extra gems to a vortex of returning caster. Kind of annoying to go out in such a pathetic way. Sure, defeat was inevitable, but to lose like that...

That was a whoops:doh: indeed. What an uber communion you had set up. I was watching the communion slaves lighting up and thought. "... this is going to hurt!". If you want to rollback I am certainly willing.

-ssj

[odeoderok]

Hi,

I haven't been posting much, but good game to Colonial, he beat me like 4 times with his endless wolf armies :)

I noticed the same thing with army of gold and wrathful skies in my penultimate battle with TNN, cleverly killing 284 of my own units while hacking at a 100+/turn hp regenerating Oreigenes. If he hadn't cleared himself a path to rout just before the battle hit 50, I would've lost yet again!

On another note, I'll be headed to the countryside for the weekend, could we add 24h to the clock?

-Ulm

[Valerius]

As far as a rollback goes, that's up to odeoderok. If he's up for rolling back so we can see how that battle would have gone if I hadn't botched things so impressively then I'm willing (the only thing I'll change is reducing the gems the vortex casters get so they can't chain cast it ;)). But I'm also fine with continuing. It's too bad we didn't get another nice battle but the most I could have done was stave off defeat a little longer.

Also, hosting has been postponed by 48 hours and I'll add more time if needed.

PS - I was quite pleased with my massively regenerating EK prophet - though that was a nasty trick you pulled off chopping off one of his arms. Luckily he was on his way to a lab and it looks like he kept ahold of his arm long enough to drop his sword in the treasury. :p

[sansanjuan]

Odeo,
Rollback ok?
-ssj

[Valerius]

Well, thanks to the rollback C'tis still lives - though it was a costly victory. Have to say my unit placement left something to be desired. I also thought it was an especially nice touch how I didn't cast poison resistance and thus killed off my own communion with my monster toads' poison clouds. Guess you won't have to worry about that on your next attempt, ssj. :p

[sansanjuan]

Well, thanks to the rollback C'tis still lives - though it was a costly victory. Have to say my unit placement left something to be desired. I also thought it was an especially nice touch how I didn't cast poison resistance and thus killed off my own communion with my monster toads' poison clouds. Guess you won't have to worry about that on your next attempt, ssj. :p

ouch. I noticed my placement looked pretty sketchy too though not quite as lethal... Got me thinking what a nice feature that would be if you could preview the battle formation during turn setup.

I will resubmit the same turn warts and all too.
-ssj

[Valerius]

I will resubmit the same turn warts and all too.

Wait, I'm referring to the re-hosted turn. I rolled back, made the one change to my turn (remove extra S gems from vortex caster), and re-hosted. Since the server already had your turns there was no need to resend. So from here on we proceed as normal (using the most recent turn 100 you received). Btw, to avoid any problems with the rollback I suggest deleting the previous .2h file from your save game folder.

You probably also noticed my pretender is still recovering from the numerous afflictions he received in his futile attack on your army of SCs. Hopefully he'll be unfeebleminded before the war is lost.

Got me thinking what a nice feature that would be if you could preview the battle formation during turn setup.

That would be quite useful during large battles. Especially with my hatred of micro my mind tends to wander and I make stupid mistakes. ;)

[Valerius]

Please see this thread (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47550) for an explanation of why llamabeast edited some mods due to changes in the latest patch. The Momentum3 mod is among these since it is based on CBM. Please replace your existing version of the mod with llama's edited version (I've also updated the version attached to the first post).

[Valerius]

The lizards still live! I really put some time into that turn and things worked out well. Lost some troops, but not commanders - which is a good thing since reinforcements are definitely not on the way.

The sad thing is my scouting report still indicates "220 units, blah blah SCs, etc." besieging my cap. I think you could probably afford those losses every couple turns. ;)

Btw, in case you're wondering about the attacks on 24 and 29 I wasn't expecting or even wanting to win those. For some reason I can't fathom I had decided to cast ritual of returning on a couple of my tarts. This is quite a limitation on an SC needed to defend my cap so I decided to send them out and hopefully have them wounded and get rid of the returning so they could participate in my cap defense.

[sansanjuan]

The lizards still live! I really put some time into that turn and things worked out well. Lost some troops, but not commanders - which is a good thing since reinforcements are definitely not on the way.

The sad thing is my scouting report still indicates "220 units, blah blah SCs, etc." besieging my cap. I think you could probably afford those losses every couple turns. ;)

Btw, in case you're wondering about the attacks on 24 and 29 I wasn't expecting or even wanting to win those. For some reason I can't fathom I had decided to cast ritual of returning on a couple of my tarts. This is quite a limitation on an SC needed to defend my cap so I decided to send them out and hopefully have them wounded and get rid of the returning so they could participate in my cap defense.

aye.

I was hoping for attrition but instead got my behind flamed :mean:

It's a poser with a vast army of C'tis mages having first swing.

-Marverni

[sansanjuan]

For the record.. the 102 turn that played was an early fail... my two subsequent fixed turns came bounced back today as...

Your 2h file seems to be for a different turn number to the one the game's currently on. The 2h file is for turn 101, while the game is now on turn 102.
Dang.

e.g. The mage with the horror harmonica was set to stay in seige and not be all be by his lonesome up front.

Nonetheless, well played C'tis!
-Marverni

Ulm sorry about the big dude on the greater wild. He returned from cylotos (sp?) right on that prov.

[odeoderok]

No problem, that's quite funny :) Wonder where my errant tartarians will turn up..

BTW, do we plan on fighting it out after C'tis falls? It affects how much time I put into my turns quite a lot..

[Valerius]

For the record.. the 102 turn that played was an early fail... my two subsequent fixed turns came bounced back...

Yeah, some strange things going on. I got a message that I sent the wrong turn but it looks like my orders were accepted. Oddly it also says I've sent turn 102, which isn't the case.

Nonetheless, well played C'tis!

You kind of got my hopes up but wow, talk about a Pyrrhic victory... I guess my estimate that you could afford those losses every couple of turns was wrong - you can try an attack every turn. ;) And of course the scouting report still says "220 units, blah blah SCs, etc."

Somewhere along the way I lost one of my rain of stones casting tarts and I knew that was going to be a problem - a single casting doesn't kill enough mages (unless I get lucky with the damage rolls as I did the previous turn).

And I'm very sad to lose my Claws of Kokytos casting tart. That spell is almost as much fun as chain casting rain of stones to kill off communions. :p

Btw, I was very worried about you casting master enslave, especially with those low MR monster toads. Enough so that I considered suiciding them somewhere.

Anyway, it looks this is the end of the road for C'tis. Hopefully I put up a good fight.

[Valerius]

Huh, the game just hosted. Because of the glitch I mentioned above the server thought my turn was in (but it actually shows me as having staled). I didn't expect everyone to get their turns in so quickly. :p

Doesn't really matter, though, as I had almost nothing left anyway and couldn't have stopped that last attack.

So, how would you two like to proceed? Are you up to the micro hell of a final showdown?

[sansanjuan]

Huh, the game just hosted. Because of the glitch I mentioned above the server thought my turn was in (but it actually shows me as having staled). I didn't expect everyone to get their turns in so quickly. :p

Doesn't really matter, though, as I had almost nothing left anyway and couldn't have stopped that last attack.

So, how would you two like to proceed? Are you up to the micro hell of a final showdown?

I'd opt for a split. However if both you and Odeo want to continue I'd be happy to turn the Marverni reins over to you for an epic endgame.
ssj

[Valerius]

Ugh. I took over C'tis for the sake of the game but I can't manage taking over your position. :hurt: But I'm of course willing to post for a sub if Odeo would like to continue. Odeo, what would you like to do?

[odeoderok]

Hi,

I'd be happy for a split! It's been a great game, but I find the prospect of another 10-30 turns of late game in the summer rather intimidating :)

[Valerius]

I'd be happy for a split! It's been a great game, but I find the prospect of another 10-30 turns of late game in the summer rather intimidating :)

Quite understandable. I didn't envy you having to deal with all that micro. ;)

Congratulations to the two of you on the victory!

Your alliance was very successful. I believe Zeldor made some attempts to split the two of you and I also tried to get in on your alliance (in the hopes that in the end I could perhaps get one of you to side with me against the other) but neither of us had any luck.

Now that the game is over, any comments on the game settings, especially the SC changes? My sense was that Marverni concentrated on the EDM summons, C'tis on tarts, and Ulm and TNN were a mix of the boosted elemental royalty and EDM summons. Squirrelloid mentioned that he thought the tarts were priced about right, that maybe they should cost another 5 gems. And since I didn't noticed any dominance of the elemental royalty it seems safe to say that the changes didn't make them OP.

[sansanjuan]

Thanks for adminning V!

Marverni was almost quashed by Yomi/Arco early on. An appeal for help from heard by a friendly neighbor (Ulm). TNN certainly played kingmaker(s) by siding with Marv/Ulm on that one.

I really liked the setup Val. Enjoyed the Ember Lords and Mech Giants. Got lucky with a early hero E2S3N4 The One in the Woods. D5B3 Tart was handy too. C'tis made it near impossible to leverage my mages (low hp, 0 prot) with the rain of stones spam (well played). Forge Lord workd well late game. Almost nothing to cast RoW, etc.

I did have a crazy late plan to spam horror mark spells and wail on that horror harmonica like J Giels. Never got there though.

Thank you Odeo too. I was sticking with you no matter what after that early help you gave.

-ssj

[Valerius]

TNN certainly played kingmaker(s) by siding with Marv/Ulm on that one.

I mentioned to Zeldor that I was paranoid about him. Despite limited resources he was inflicting a lot of damage so I decided I would dogpile him so he'd have so much to deal with that no matter how well he played it wouldn't be enough. However, live by the dogpile, die by the dogpile, and all those globals I had put up basically put a target on my back. Ermor attacked me first and cost me considerably. With C'tis poaching my southern provinces and then you and odeo attacking I was pretty much just in defensive mode.

Btw, losing Earth Bloop Deep Well was tough. I had just read some favorable comments about Mech Giants on the forum and was going to start churning them out when you took that global.

I also have to say I hate those druids. :p I knew going in that they would be trouble and while Rain of Stones works well against them once I switched to C'tis I only had two tarts that could do that. I got really tired of seeing them drop into provinces and start in with Living Earth.

But I had fun with my last stand for C'tis (which plays very different from my usual type of nation). The most satisfying was being able to hold off the first attempts to storm some of my forts. Fear the disintegrate spam! ;)

I really liked the setup Val.

Glad you liked it! I thought it worked out pretty well - no real imbalances I can think of. And I really do like "Cripple Fight" style games of weaker nations. Not sure if there would be changes to the nation list under CBM 1.84.

[odeoderok]

Yes, the game was great! It's still hard to believe we ended up on top with the amount of pounding I took from Arco and TNN :)

With regard to what I was using, I started out just testing all the EDM summons (I copied the idea Oreigenes + Mage bane + Aegis from you, Valerius, it was stupendous! I think I would never have beaten TNN if you hadn't switched the gear to the Air Queen that then died, luckily, and allowed me to forge it.) After I snatched Well of Misery from C'tis I switched to Tarts, saving all other gems for the eventuality that sansanjuan would want to go head to head. I agree that Tarts could have been still more expensive.

About what sansanjuan said about my help in the early game, I chose to team up with him because of Zeldor's overweeningly arrogant diplomacy. He made first contact with me by demanding a province I controlled, and demanding and demanding again when I said no, so I attacked him out of pure irritation :D

I too never contemplated selling sansanjuan out, he helped me so much with items and gems when I lost some big battles against Zeldor and you Valerius.

So, to recap, I think at least 5/6 of the win should go to sansanjuan, seeing how much advice and help he gave me, and also because I had a few periods where my interest flagged a little and I just rushed the turns in. This was only my 4th game on the forums, and I must say I learned a lot (don't cast army of gold + wrathful skies!).

Thank you very much Valerius!

edit, I too had a forge lord pretender, it was good with the hammer of the forge lord. Maybe that's why we won :D

[Zeldor]

I told you :) TNN's attempt was foolish and naive and would obviously fail. And it failed.

I had bad starting location and my ally totally failed me. I could have lived there maybe forever though and helped TNN win, if he wanted. But he was too afraid to try to win the game.

Arrogant diplomacy with Ulm was the right thing to do - he was extremely weak and had easy land to grab. His armies died like flies and he let me besiege his cap for ages, while having 3x more resources and forces. And an ally that I did not have by then. So Ulm was easy picking and there was no need for me to offer him anything or a chance to let him gain from lands he conquered.