Boot Camp - Finished - Soyweiser/Jotunheim wins!

[Valerius]

It seems we've had a number of new people joining the forum. A recent newbie game filled up in short order so I thought I'd see if there was enough interest for another. Looking for people with 0-3 games experience.

This is intended to be an intro to standard MP settings. This of course changes over time but I think the mods we are using here reflect the current state of MP play.

This will be a friendly game, hopefully there will be some discussion of how things are going as we progress (note: don't give away your strategies! :)), and if any of you have a talent for writing in-character posts are always welcome (I don't have a knack for it myself but I've read many engaging and funny posts).



Settings

Age: MA
Players: 8
Banned nations: water nations and Ashdod
Hosting: llamaserver (http://www.llamaserver.net/) - llamaserver FAQ is here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160)
Hosting interval: 24 hours up to turn 20, 48 hours up to turn 40, 72 hours from then on
Mods: CBM 1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47550) and EDM 1.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45056)
Map: Parganos (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39857) (dead seas version - this means you can conquer sea provinces but they will not provide gold/gem income)
Hall of Fame: 15
All other settings default

Note: Apparently PM's are turned off by default when you create your forum account. You'll want them on as this is a much quicker way to conduct diplomacy than the in-game message system.


Player Roster

Abysia - minko
Bandar Log - durecellrabbit
C'tis - Pjoo (originally Duncan_Frost)
Caelum - arnob
Jotunheim - Soyweiser
Marignon - Dragonrider
Pythium - Ragnars Wolves
Shinuyama - Groundworm

--------------------

Ok, the stuff above is the only thing you need to read. The rest of this is just something I wrote up in case it's helpful to a new player.



Conceptual Balance Mod (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43949)

We will be using the CBM mod because it is used in most of the MP games that I am aware of. After you have played both CBM and vanilla, you may decide that you prefer vanilla. If so, no problem. The only "right" way to play the game is in a way that you find fun and, if it is MP, that you can get others to sign up for. These days you will have a smaller pool of players than a CBM game would but you shouldn't have a problem getting a game going (some players don't like CBM, others like both CBM and vanilla games). The main game type that I think would be difficult to fill is a large vanilla game (say, all nations in an era) because of the challenges of gem generators (clam of pearls, etc.) in such a situation.

So, if you're new to CBM what should you keep an eye out for? A lot of what CBM does is adjust prices in gems or gold in order to make under-utilized units more appealing. Perhaps the most popular, and easily noticeable, of CBM's changes has to do with pretenders. Most of the changes involve decreasing the cost of rarely used pretenders to make them more affordable (take a look at the various titan and human pretender chassis) . Occasionally pretenders are given abilities like summoning allies. However, in a few cases, underpriced pretenders have had their cost increased. So if you have been playing Pangaea or Sauromatia and choosing the gorgon pretender you'll notice quite an increase in cost under CBM.

Another area to keep an eye on is the gem cost of summons. Sadly, it is hard to justify spending the gems on many summons in a MP environment. Let me give an example. Let's say I'm playing Machaka. In the vanilla game I can summon a fire drake for 8 gems. That's a pretty steep price. In CBM I can summon them for 4 gems - much better! But then there's this Dragon Master spell. It let's me summon three drakes instead of one. That's great! Hmm, but it's Enchantment 8 and costs 30 gems. By the time I reach that how much of a factor will drakes be in the game? But wait a second, under CBM Dragon Master is only Ench. 3 (and only costs 5 gems to boot). My army of fire breathing drakes will be on the march in short order! Now this example is a bit different than most in that it involves two spells working together. But you will notice many price decreases on troop summons. Where you won't see them much is on thugs and SCs who, due to their power, don't need a drop in price.

As far as combat spells go look through the spell lists in-game. There can be differences in casting level, casting requirements, and effects compared to vanilla. Global spells can be very powerful and even game winning. They can also be kind of lame. So some them have had their level or costs increased and others the opposite (I still don't think the lame ones get cast much).

There are also a number of forging changes. Cleveland's item forging reference (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37516) is a great way to see at a glance what forging costs/requirements are for both vanilla and CBM games.



Endgame Diversity Mod (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45056)

The EDM adds a variety of thug and SC summons in the four elemental paths and nature. The goal is to provide alternatives to Tartarians in the late game. In case you're not familiar with "Tarts" the way it works is this: Tartarians are the only non-unique, non-national SC available. The catch is, most of them are feebleminded and the only way to heal them is to have forged (or wished for) the Chalice or to have cast Gift of Health. This means that at most two nations will be able to take full advantage of tarts. Oh yeah, they also provide you with tremendous magical diversity and they're cheap. So you can see why games so often fall into a pattern of Constr. 8 (for the Chalice), then Conj. 9 (pick up Well of Misery along the way at Conj. 8).

The EDM helps address this by providing alternative, non-unique SC options. Tarts still have an edge in price and, especially, magic diversity but the situation is much better than without the EDM.

Since an increasing number of games use the EDM mod (my guess is more than half) we will be using it as well.



Diplomacy

Normally I never say anything regarding diplomacy but since this is a newbie game and the Dominions community may be different than other games you've played I thought I'd mention it. Probably the most common diplomatic message in Dominions is "NAP 3?". This asks for a non aggression pact with 3 turns notice before launching an attack if either party decides to end the NAP. So, that's worth the virtual paper it's written on, right? Well ... not exactly. The reality is that the terms of diplomatic agreements are usually honored. Some people don't like this, feeling it makes games too static, but even many of them will say they've never violated a NAP. Why? Partly because there's consequences in the game in which you're involved. Usually such situations devolve into charges and counter-charges but if the rest of the players come to believe you did in fact violate a NAP they will view their own agreements with you as being suspect. They may also be less inclined to hesitate at violating their own NAP's with you.

Then there's the impact it can have in other games. I want to make it clear that carrying a grudge from one game to another is not acceptable. But there's another aspect to consider. Many Dominions players are very pragmatic and diplomacy is just another variable to consider. All other things being equal, if given a choice between dealing with a player they know sticks to agreements and one that they believe has violated an agreement, they will go with the former. It doesn't really matter if you were role-playing in the game in which you violated the NAP - you are still unreliable vs. the other player who is a known quantity.

Having said all that, even players who always honor NAPs will consider them void if you engage in certain actions. Burden of Time is a good example of a global that would be a cause for voiding a NAP immediately. Game winning globals such as Arcane Nexus and Forge of the Ancients would also qualify. Sneaking combat forces into the player's territory would also cause most players to consider a NAP void if they are discovered. Then too, some players who normally wouldn't violate a NAP say they will do so if they think it will win them the game - the stakes are then high enough to be worth it.

All that is by way of background as to the common practices in games I've been in. I never specify whether diplomacy is binding or not in games I admin and I won't do so here.

One last thing. Diplomacy is an important part of Dominions. Even the most tactically skilled player will fall under the weight of enough attackers. If that same player can use diplomacy to turn one or more attackers into neutral parties, or even allies, the equation changes considerably. But don't expect great results if the only effort you put into it was to agree to a NAP 3 a few dozen turns ago. Of course don't pester people non-stop either - then they might attack you just out of annoyance. :)

BTW, because diplomacy takes time and can lead to dogpiling many players will mix in no-diplomacy games. In these games you cannot have any contact with others players (no NAPs, no trade, etc.). Taken to a further level, a RAND game (Random Anonymous No Diplomacy) will conceal the identity of players by randomly assigning nations.

Ok, one other thing. When you end a NAP (or someone ends it with you) I would recommend specifying what turn attack orders can be given and when the battles will take place. Both players can have the intention of abiding by the terms of the NAP and through a misunderstanding one attacks earlier than the other expected. It's worth the effort to be on the same page.



"Things are going too slow, I'm going to join more games"

Don't. Really, think twice before you join more than 2-3 games. Turns can literally take a minute early on but if you enter a half dozen games and they enter the mid-game at the same time you will almost certainly regret it. If you have that many late games going on you'll be cursing yourself and looking for subs (or staling and abandoning games, which is poor form). Start with just a couple of games and get an idea how much time the mid and late game take. Once some of your games have progressed you can manage it so that you have, for instance, one late and one early game. But for now you are better off just signing up for a couple of games and exercising patience until they develop.

BTW, you can use the extra time you have now to test some of your strategies so that when the mid game arrives you have a plan of attack in mind. You can also try a duel with another player. These aren't to everyone's taste but they play quickly and with only two players it is easy to agree on house rules (for instance, a 10 turn NAP to begin the game in order avoid an immediate rush).

[Ragnars Wolves]

WOW, I'd love to but I have never played MA, even SP. I will watch this and if you decide to go EA or LA I will join and not quit on you.

Great concept, this would be my first MP game.:)

[Calahan]

Can I please reserve a place for the player 'durecellrabbit' as Bandar Log. He is a new player on IRC who is waiting for his Shrapnel account to be activated.

TIA Valerius.

[Valerius]

WOW, I'd love to but I have never played MA, even SP. I will watch this and if you decide to go EA or LA I will join and not quit on you.

Great concept, this would be my first MP game.:)

I'm going to stick with MA because it is the most balanced and has the fewest unusual nations. If you have played EA or LA you shouldn't have a problem dealing with MA.

And actually you are exactly the audience this game is intended for. Think it over; there's a good chance a nation you've tried in EA/LA has an MA version.


Can I please reserve a place for the player 'durecellrabbit' as Bandar Log. He is a new player on IRC who is waiting for his Shrapnel account to be activated.

TIA Valerius.

Will do. Thanks for sending him over.

[Ragnars Wolves]

OK, I read some guides and am ready to die an honorable death. In order to die an honorable death, I need to play a nation that....1. I know NOTHING about. 2. Is a reasonably complicated and somewhat weak nation so I will have no clue on WHAT to do with my troops, as they die easily. 3.Has a cool name that inspires TERROR into my opponents (since nothing else will).

On that note, if you will have me in my first MP game....I will take (drumroll) MA Pythium!!!! (Uhhhhh, BTW, a 10 turn Nap mandatory with me from everyone else would be a very nice and special welcoming gift).

Thank you kind sir....

Ragnar

I have noticed that I have the Paragos map but NOT the dead sea map. Could you possibly put a link to that map on the first page and perhaps the end-game diversity mod, or direct me to it. Thank you agian and thank you for the explanation of what to expect in the game, it will be a big help.

[PriestyMan]

somewhat weak nation

heh. thats funny,

[arnob]

Hello

I would love to join this MP game with Caelum - Reign of the Seraphim !

It's my second MP game

Arnob

[Duncan_Frost]

Hi, sounds like a great idea! I'm technically a new player (brought the game ages ago, only just reinstalled thanks to the excellent LP over on Something Awful) and I've only been in about one quarter of an MP game before - I'd like to sign up for this.

...It's kinda unfortunate that Bandar Log is already taken, since that's the only nation I'm any good with. :p

Could anyone suggest a nice replacement for a new player to try out on his almost-first MP game?

[Ragnars Wolves]

LOL, me too....

Check the Strategy Guides List, that is what I did. I also am playing a Nation I know zip about.

Be warned though, with these new mods I understand it is NOT like playing SP without them. Guess i'll find out soon enough.

[Duncan_Frost]

Actually, after messing around in the Pretender screen for a bit, I've decided on MA C'tis. (if a veteran comes in and tells me this is an incredibly difficult nation to play then I'm happy to switch, of course :p)

LOL, me too....

Check the Strategy Guides List, that is what I did. I also am playing a Nation I know zip about.

Be warned though, with these new mods I understand it is NOT like playing SP without them. Guess i'll find out soon enough.

I don't seem to have a Dead Seas version either.

The end-game diversity mod is in the first post, by the way. :)

[Valerius]

Welcome to the game, everyone! On to the questions:

On that note, if you will have me in my first MP game....I will take (drumroll) MA Pythium!!!! (Uhhhhh, BTW, a 10 turn Nap mandatory with me from everyone else would be a very nice and special welcoming gift).

PriestyMan is right - Pythium certainly isn't a weak nation. But you are welcome to it - only the notorious Ashdod is banned for being overpowered (OP).

I have noticed that I have the Paragos map but NOT the dead sea map. Could you possibly put a link to that map on the first page and perhaps the end-game diversity mod, or direct me to it. Thank you agian and thank you for the explanation of what to expect in the game, it will be a big help.

Here is a link (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39857) to llamabeast's modified Parganos (I'll update the first post as well). Note that this doesn't have his preset start locations. This isn't a problem, though, as only the server needs to have them.

...It's kinda unfortunate that Bandar Log is already taken, since that's the only nation I'm any good with. :p

Could anyone suggest a nice replacement for a new player to try out on his almost-first MP game?

Hmm, similar to Bandar? Have you looked at Arcoscephale? Like Bandar, you can use elephants for expansion. You also have strong astral magic and risk-free mind hunting thanks to your recruitable healers. But unlike Bandar, you don't have a host of sacred summons and troops. Depends how you play Bandar. If you play them as a bless nation then Arco isn't a good substitute.

[Valerius]

Actually, after messing around in the Pretender screen for a bit, I've decided on MA C'tis. (if a veteran comes in and tells me this is an incredibly difficult nation to play then I'm happy to switch, of course :p)

MA C'tis is tricky because you always have to take into consideration your miasma dominion. Diplomatically people won't want to have their commanders and quality troops diseased in the process of attacking you but at the same time if your dominion starts to bleed into their territories they'll be unhappy. If you find excellent indie mages you'll have to find a place outside your dominion in order to avoid them being diseased.

Definitely check out the guides on this nation. Executor's has a good discussion on C'tis. And I'd run some test games and see how you feel about having to manage their dominion.

[Groundworm]

I like the sound of this game. I'm currently in the middle of my second MP game, with my third about to start up this week. I've also never played a MP game with EGD.

If you'll have me, I'd love to claim Shinuyama.

Thanks for hosting a newb-friendly game!

Groundworm

[Soyweiser]

I would also like to try. So far haven't really done that much MP. More a SP player.

And while I don't really like the removal of gem gens in cbm 1.6, I do like the settings of this game.

Sign me up for Jotunheim. (Why is Ashdod out and Jotunheim in? Both are strong giant nations imho).

[durecellrabbit]

Yay, I can finally post, took longer than I expected. Just to confirm I'm durecellrabbit and I'd like Bandar Log please. Thanks for posting for me Calahan. I've been playing SP for about half a week and I'd like to try MP now.

Thanks for the detailed intro post Valerius, it was helpful.

[DragonRider]

I'll throw my hat into the ring for this. Honestly, I'm probably a bit too green even for this most newbiest of games (I've been playing for all of a week or so), but I doubt there will be a better time to learn the basics of multiplayer any time soon so I'm not about to pass up the opportunity.

The problem is that most of my already-limited experience is in the Early Age. I think Pythium is the only Middle Age nation I've so much as touched, and of course they were taken during my 12-hour validation process. So I guess I'll go with...Arcoscephale, maybe? I don't know my astral magic from a hole in the ground, but they seem interesting enough (even though I'm pretty sure I like their Early Age version better). Or possibly Marignon, if I can figure out a good Pretender build that goes well with them (I have a strong tendency to lean towards Titan-type chassis that can act as at least pseudo-supercombatants, but Marignon is just begging for an Enchantress rainbow mage or whatever, which I'm not sure I know how to make good use of yet).

[Valerius]

Welcome Groundworm, Soyweiser, durecellrabbit, DragonRider! The game is now full.

Sign me up for Jotunheim. (Why is Ashdod out and Jotunheim in? Both are strong giant nations imho).

As much as possible I've tried to go with "standard" settings. So out of tradition Ashdod is out, Jotun is in (though I agree with you that Jotun is very strong). The toughest call was actually some of the globals that are frequently banned but I left them in.

Thanks for the detailed intro post Valerius, it was helpful.

Glad to hear that! :)

[Valerius]

The game is now full.

Uh, actually we need one more player. Apparently I have to work on my counting skills. ;) Open for recruiting again.

[Valerius]

I'll throw my hat into the ring for this. Honestly, I'm probably a bit too green even for this most newbiest of games (I've been playing for all of a week or so), but I doubt there will be a better time to learn the basics of multiplayer any time soon so I'm not about to pass up the opportunity.

Probably some of the players here are in the same boat. Since you'll keep learning about the game as it goes on the main thing to worry about now is expansion. The SP game is quite good for testing this. Start a test game with the pretender you have in mind and see how expansion goes. The faster your start, the better, but if it takes a few turns to get going and then all of a sudden you're taking 3 provinces a turn that can work pretty well. But if you've only got a handful of provinces at the end of the first year you won't have much room to expand since so many indie provinces will already have been claimed.

The problem is that most of my already-limited experience is in the Early Age. I think Pythium is the only Middle Age nation I've so much as touched, and of course they were taken during my 12-hour validation process. So I guess I'll go with...Arcoscephale, maybe? I don't know my astral magic from a hole in the ground, but they seem interesting enough (even though I'm pretty sure I like their Early Age version better). Or possibly Marignon, if I can figure out a good Pretender build that goes well with them (I have a strong tendency to lean towards Titan-type chassis that can act as at least pseudo-supercombatants, but Marignon is just begging for an Enchantress rainbow mage or whatever, which I'm not sure I know how to make good use of yet).

Marignon is a pretty good substitute for Pythium. Not as strong, but you have decent astral and the same angelic summons available. I don't think they need an awake SC to expand so I'd save the points and go with the rainbow (a light bless, especially N4, would be nice).

[Soyweiser]

As much as possible I've tried to go with "standard" settings. So out of tradition Ashdod is out, Jotun is in (though I agree with you that Jotun is very strong).

But EGD does make Jotun, or other giant nations, a bit weaker. The grendelkin kills any normal giant in one hit.

And Jotun has some problems in the endgame. (At least that is what I think, only good access to blood, no high death, nor high astral). Armageddon spam kinda ruins the nation. (as do utterdark and BoT of course).

--
And thanks for the large intro post too :), it is very helpful.

[Valerius]

But EGD does make Jotun, or other giant nations, a bit weaker. The grendelkin kills any normal giant in one hit.

The grendelkin is certainly a tank but keep in mind that giant nations can summon SCs like any other nation - they aren't limited to their recruitable ones. You can have your own grendelkin (summoned by indies, spectres or even your pretender). Then too, this is later in the game that those summons become available. And I'd still argue Jotun, in particular, is in a good position. Skratti can dish out tremendous damage, even more so if they can use a damage multiplying weapon like a herald lance (they can't against grendelkin, which is a big reason they are so tough). And then there's the always popular "attack one turn, cast Claws of Kokytos" script.

And Jotun has some problems in the endgame. (At least that is what I think, only good access to blood, no high death, nor high astral). Armageddon spam kinda ruins the nation. (as do utterdark and BoT of course).

Those are valid points but I'd say much of a nation's endgame strength is based on what they did earlier in the game and that eventually everyone's endgame starts looking similar.

But I do agree with you that having decent astral on your pretender is important. I've had good results with a sleeping enchantress. As an aside, expansion is a breeze with just couple of light blesses (F, E, N come to mind) on Jotun's sacreds.

And thanks for the large intro post too :), it is very helpful.

That's good to hear. When I was writing it I was wondering if it was just because I liked to hear myself "talking." :)

[DragonRider]

Marignon is a pretty good substitute for Pythium. Not as strong, but you have decent astral and the same angelic summons available. I don't think they need an awake SC to expand so I'd save the points and go with the rainbow (a light bless, especially N4, would be nice).

The problem is that I don't really know what to do with a rainbow pretender. There's site searching, I guess, and of course casting rituals or forging items with the paths that your national mages can't use (i.e. pretty much all of them for Marignon), but I don't really know too much about which rituals are most worth casting. It's pretty clearly the best choice, though; the window of opportunity between getting Alteration 3 and pushing a Virtue/Titan/Lady of Love/whatever out the door and getting access to Harbingers who do the same job as well or better would be kind of narrow.

Really, my biggest weakness right now is that I don't think I site-search enough and I don't make enough use of the gems I do have, so I'm not sure if going for a rainbow pretender will force me to learn or just leave me with a pretender that I'm totally incapable of using correctly. If I can get past that, though, I think I'm leaning a bit more towards Marignon, if only because I can look at their troop lineup and have a reasonably clear idea of what I should be doing. Arcoscephale looks like more of a grab bag of random magic which, interesting as it is, would probably just confuse me at this point.

[Valerius]

Marignon is a pretty good substitute for Pythium. Not as strong, but you have decent astral and the same angelic summons available. I don't think they need an awake SC to expand so I'd save the points and go with the rainbow (a light bless, especially N4, would be nice).

The problem is that I don't really know what to do with a rainbow pretender. There's site searching, I guess, and of course casting rituals or forging items with the paths that your national mages can't use (i.e. pretty much all of them for Marignon), but I don't really know too much about which rituals are most worth casting. It's pretty clearly the best choice, though; the window of opportunity between getting Alteration 3 and pushing a Virtue/Titan/Lady of Love/whatever out the door and getting access to Harbingers who do the same job as well or better would be kind of narrow.

Really, my biggest weakness right now is that I don't think I site-search enough and I don't make enough use of the gems I do have, so I'm not sure if going for a rainbow pretender will force me to learn or just leave me with a pretender that I'm totally incapable of using correctly. If I can get past that, though, I think I'm leaning a bit more towards Marignon, if only because I can look at their troop lineup and have a reasonably clear idea of what I should be doing. Arcoscephale looks like more of a grab bag of random magic which, interesting as it is, would probably just confuse me at this point.

Ok, I see what you're saying. Well, I think you've got basic idea.

Here's what I think of with rainbows:

Site searching - Jump start your gem income, especially in paths your national mages can't. If you get lucky find useful indie mages or excellent magic sites (Conj. bonus, etc.).

Summoning - Summon mages that can take over the task of searching for paths your national/indie mages can't as well as provide magic diversity.

Forging - Especially forging boosters and unique items.

Spellcasting - One nice thing thing about rainbows is they are able to take advantage of what the game gives you. Not an earth nation but you've ended up with a very strong E income? Rainbow pretender can either cast Earth Blood Deep Well themselves or summon another mage and give them the boosters to do so.

Endgame magic - This isn't unique to rainbows but keep in mind what endgame spells you want to be able to cast, especially Wish, and make sure you have a plan to get there.

BTW, it's a good idea to have an endgame plan in mind. You can play the game like I do ("Haha! Check out my E9N6 Sidhe Lords! What? Endgame strategy? Uh ... I don't know... Hey, did I mention my cool raiders?!") or you can play like the better players and have an actual strategy in mind. ;)

One last thing: unless you get lucky with indie mages I find many times rainbows have more to do than there's time for and you have to prioritize (especially when you hit Constr. 8 and are racing to forge items before someone else takes them). Whenever possible summon other mages that you can delegate tasks to - the rainbow opens doors and handles spells and forging that summons can't.

[DragonRider]

I think I'm just going to go ahead and commit to Marignon instead of Arcoscephale. I did a few test runs for the first year or two and it seemed to go well enough. Of course, that's just against the AI (I think Bandor Log wound up with a total of two territories in the most recent one, and I personally watched Caelum lose its army two or three times), but I have a general feel for things now.

I also learned some very important information. Like the fact that nine out of ten 60-year-old human fire mages will pretty much die of spontaneous combustion within a year and a half unless you take some growth scales, which narrows down my Pretender build quite a bit. Now it's just a matter of finalizing my paths and figuring out a research plan...

[Valerius]

Ok, I switched you to Marignon.

Old age is a PITA. The only one of my favorite nations that has to deal with it is MA Aby and at least they have easy access to Boots of Youth (blood slaves are cheaper than gems). This works fine until someone decides to cast Burden of Time. :hurt:

So, growth scale is good, if you go with an N4 bless you can forge a Shroud of the Battle Saint to help minimize with afflictions and, if you find enchantresses, you can forge Elixirs of Life.

BTW, the first year is when SP most matches MP since you're just grabbing indies. If you're meeting your goal there then it sounds like you've got a solid expansion strategy.

[minko]

Id like to join if there is still room. I have one game under my belt (i got demolished in the first 10 turns and then kept on having two provinces full of PD :P) and 2 games that im currently still in.

When will the game start? I'd like a day or 2 to decide on a nation since I haven't played MA that much...

[cwkjc]

Need another player ? I just played MP stackers which is still running (but without me...)

[Valerius]

Minko it looks like you posted right before cwkjc. I just setup the game on the llamaserver. How about we aim for a Thursday start? Would that give you enough time?

Cwkjc, unfortunately this map is setup for 8 preset start locations - otherwise I'd just increase us to 9 players. How about if I add you as the first person on a wait list? I'm also thinking about starting another newbies game soon and I could already put you on the list for that.

[minko]

Sure, Thursday is good for me (thinking about Ulm or Aby... i'll prolly decide/send the pretender wednesday). Sorry cwkjc :(

[Valerius]

Ok, sounds good.

A quick note to everyone that when you send your pretender to the llamaserver you'll want BootCamp in the subject line (no spaces between those two words).

[cwkjc]

Ok for another newbie game, i'll check the forum later, good game !!!

[Soyweiser]

Pretender Send.

[Duncan_Frost]

Sent my pretender in. :)

[Valerius]

It just occurred to me that I've been suggesting people take a look at strategy guides. That's a good idea but it's important to keep in mind that most of them were written before CBM 1.6 removed gem generators from the game (clams, bloodstones, fever fetishes) and may recommend focusing on them. So keep that in mind when planning your strategy.

Duncan_Frost you may have already realized this but in case you haven't, be careful what pretender you choose. C'tis has pretenders available that are not immune to its own miasma.

[durecellrabbit]

@DragonRider - I wouldn't worry too much about not knowing how to use everything. I know what Thugs, SC and communions are, for example but all my attempt to use them have failed so far. Hopefully this game will provide the chance to get it right or see someone get it right and be able to learn from that for another game.

It just occurred to me that I've been suggesting people take a look at strategy guides. That's a good idea but it's important to keep in mind that most of them were written before CBM 1.6 removed gem generators from the game (clams, bloodstones, fever fetishes) and may recommend focusing on them. So keep that in mind when planning your strategy.

I got really confused about the clam economy a lot of guide mention and had to ask about them in IRC. Reminded me of Cottage Economy from Civ4 from some reason.


It's very early morning here so I'll send my pretender in after I wake up and do a quick test. I have a good idea about it but I want to quickly run through a SP game to make sure I'm not making any massive mistake like too low dominion.

[DragonRider]

Well, my Pretender is as ready as she's going to get. I should be good to go, assuming I understand Llamaserver correctly.

[rdonj]

I noticed that not all of you have private messaging enabled. Most diplomacy in dominions tends to be done either by: private messaging, email, and IRC. Private messages are not enabled by default, and if you want them allowed you'll have to go to your user cp, click options in the drop down menu, and that'll bring up the page with private messaging options on it.

Dragonrider... your name is familiar. Have you ever posted pictures of yourself involving a pole and a trenchcoat?

[Valerius]

Definitely agree with rdonj that in-game messaging is kind of a last resort. The two big drawbacks are that it is slow and there's no history of what you sent. The only thing I'd normally use it for are as a second form of communication to end a NAP or to get someone's attention if you think they aren't regularly checking their messages.

Regarding IRC, you'll notice durecellrabbit has already gotten help there. You'll find a lot of knowledgeable players there and this is probably the quickest way to get answers to questions and one advantage it has over a forum posting is that you can ask a question and not have it publicly posted for other players to see (rdonj can correct me if I'm wrong in this understanding).

So we have six pretenders in. I think we'll probably start Wed., worst case Thurs. if minko needs more time for testing. By default the llamaserver has a 48 hour hosting interval for the first turn in case any problems need to be worked out. After that we will be on 24 hour hosting until turn 20.

I'll try to check this thread as close to hosting as possible in case there are delay requests but of course if you think you need more time the earlier you can post the request, the better.

[rdonj]

Regarding IRC, you'll notice durecellrabbit has already gotten help there. You'll find a lot of knowledgeable players there and this is probably the quickest way to get answers to questions and one advantage it has over a forum posting is that you can ask a question and not have it publicly posted for other players to see (rdonj can correct me if I'm wrong in this understanding).

This is certainly true, yes. I haven't been on IRC very much lately so I'm not sure who all is likely to be around during the days, but there's almost always some very good players on who should be able to answer anything other than a finalgenesis question pretty casually. That channel idles a lot though, so it may take a few minutes for someone to notice you showing up.

[Duncan_Frost]

Duncan_Frost you may have already realized this but in case you haven't, be careful what pretender you choose. C'tis has pretenders available that are not immune to its own miasma.

Y'know, I completely forgot that. The poison-immunity ring (Snake Ring?) would prevent that, right?

[Valerius]

Duncan_Frost you may have already realized this but in case you haven't, be careful what pretender you choose. C'tis has pretenders available that are not immune to its own miasma.

Y'know, I completely forgot that. The poison-immunity ring (Snake Ring?) would prevent that, right?

No, it won't. IIRC swamp survival is the key thing (or being undead, demon, and I think lifeless).

Edit (from Executor's guide):

"Although MA C’tis has a variety of pretender to choose, half of them are useless.
They can only use lifeless, cold blooded and swamp survival pretenders."

So it looks like the cold blooded tag will also protect you. But I'd run a test to make sure. Also, undead and demon should be fine as well.

[minko]

Pretender sent. I'll be playing Abysia

[Valerius]

Ok, I've updated the player roster. Durecellrabbit's pretender will be ready in a few hours so we'll be on the way shortly.

Duncan_Frost can you let me know when you've had a chance to revise your pretender? I turned off the autostart feature so the game wouldn't begin before you had a chance to resend your pretender.

[Duncan_Frost]

Alright, I'll do that now! Thanks for the heads up, it would have been pretty embarrassing to have my Great Sage die of disease four turns after I got him... :p

edit: Sent and confirmed, I'm all ready now :)

[durecellrabbit]

I've sent mine in. Is there anyway to check I sent the right one in? The naming scheme for these doesn't make it easy.

[rdonj]

The best way would be to delete all your presaved pretenders and create a new one. But they're numbered in order of creation, so the highest number is the most recent pretender. There's also a program called catgod that should do that but I've never used it.

By the way valerius, I think you're doing an excellent job as admin of this game. I don't think I've ever seen an admin do a better job of starting a newbie game up than you're doing here. Keep up the good work :)

[durecellrabbit]

I deleted all the pretenders, remade and resent my pretender. Ready to go.

[Valerius]

There's also a program called catgod that should do that but I've never used it.

I've found catgod to be quite useful (link (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=34716)). I'll sometimes run it on all my pretenders to check out previous builds (because I've tried so many different variations of an E9N6 bless :)).

By the way valerius, I think you're doing an excellent job as admin of this game. I don't think I've ever seen an admin do a better job of starting a newbie game up than you're doing here. Keep up the good work :)

Thanks! Thanks also for helping out with questions. I'll also mention that all vets reading this are welcome to participate in discussions as the game progresses if you see a question in an area of interest to you.


And without further ado, the game has begun! Good luck and have fun!

[DragonRider]

Dragonrider... your name is familiar. Have you ever posted pictures of yourself involving a pole and a trenchcoat?

That sounds...vague. And disturbing. But no, I've never posted pictures of myself in any context.

PMing should be enabled for me now, by the way. I meant to do it immediately after making my account, but you can't access the options screen until the account is verified, and after the twelve hours that took I had forgotten.

[rdonj]

Sorry, I was being purposely vague so as not to give either of us away if it turned out I did know you. But I guess not!

[Soyweiser]

Wow, what a suboptimal starting location. And my first turn is away.

[DragonRider]

Marignon's first turn is locked in. I wound up making some last-minute adjustments to my original plan...hopefully they won't haunt me later.

Only two left now. Will the next turn host early if all the turns come in before the deadline, or will it wait until the last minute either way?

[llamabeast]

It will host early once all the turns are in.

By the way hope you enjoy the game guys!

[Valerius]

BTW, since these early turns take so little time, if you are the last to send in your turn please wait until the game hosts and then complete your next turn. A brisk pace early on helps get everyone into the game. :)

[Valerius]

Wow, what a suboptimal starting location.

Hmm, I think I know where you are. Well, on the bright side it's a chance to work on your diplomacy skills? ;)

[Soyweiser]

Wow, what a suboptimal starting location.

Hmm, I think I know where you are. Well, on the bright side it's a chance to work on your diplomacy skills? ;)

Yeah, that is going to be very important. In most of my testgames I had a lot of provinces after 12 turns. Not going to happen I think. Ah well, lets just hope the indies I'm surrounded with aren't 80+ knights or barbarians.

Wait... the small crowns on the map, do these indicate capitol provinces?

[Valerius]

Wait... the small crowns on the map, do these indicate capitol provinces?

No, I think they're victory point provinces. Even though we're not using VP. Not sure why the game does this.

[Duncan_Frost]

I think I might be in a different timezone to everyone else, all the turns had been done by the time I sent mine in... :p

[Soyweiser]

I think I might be in a different timezone to everyone else, all the turns had been done by the time I sent mine in... :p

Second turn unrest at capitol: 29. Love those unrest events... fffffuuuu (and I only took misfortune 1 just to prevent this).

Ah well, at least the neighboring indies are easy to conquer.

Greetings from the cold north everyone. Hope your starts are better than mine. (of course that is a lie, I wish you all turn 1 knight attacks ;)).

[Duncan_Frost]

Oh no! My Pretender who is definitely a Prince of Death and not anything else just got hit by a meteor! Oh, why did I take turmoil/misfortune 3?! :hurt:

[Valerius]

I think I might be in a different timezone to everyone else, all the turns had been done by the time I sent mine in... :p

Yeah, it helps to get lucky with timezones and schedules. Still, if everyone does what you just did and immediately works on their next turn when they are last to send in a turn, the game will move at a good clip. :up:

Second turn unrest at capitol: 29. Love those unrest events... fffffuuuu (and I only took misfortune 1 just to prevent this).

That's tough. It can really slow down your expansion if you are playing a nation that needs reources. Actually my last game on this map I was also hit with a couple of unrest events early on (also playing with only M1). I was very lucky I already had one expansion party out or it really would have killed my expansion efforts.

Greetings from the cold north everyone. Hope your starts are better than mine. (of course that is a lie, I wish you all turn 1 knight attacks ;)).

Lol. Ain't that the truth!


Random thoughts: You can glean a good amount of information about people's builds by looking at the score tables early on. Also, don't forget to look over the available mercenaries. They can provide a boost to your expansion and, a bit later, allow you to site search in paths you don't have.

[durecellrabbit]

Looks like Pythium thought of the mercs first.

I have a nice range of indy difficulties around me. Lets hope the 20 milita and light infantry is as easy as it seems.

[Soyweiser]

Random thoughts: You can glean a good amount of information about people's builds by looking at the score tables early on. Also, don't forget to look over the available mercenaries. They can provide a boost to your expansion and, a bit later, allow you to site search in paths you don't have.

Here is the link:
http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=BootCamp

Lot of interesting stuff there actually. 2 awake pretenders (or at least 2 with magical paths, I suspect pythium also has an awake pretender used for patrolling in the first turn (700+ gold? wow!)).

But I cannot really interpret the dominions part, and does pythium start with better gem sites? (because they have 8 gems, instead of just 5).

[durecellrabbit]

Random thoughts: You can glean a good amount of information about people's builds by looking at the score tables early on. Also, don't forget to look over the available mercenaries. They can provide a boost to your expansion and, a bit later, allow you to site search in paths you don't have.

Here is the link:
http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=BootCamp

Lot of interesting stuff there actually. 2 awake pretenders (or at least 2 with magical paths, I suspect pythium also has an awake pretender used for patrolling in the first turn (700+ gold? wow!)).

But I cannot really interpret the dominions part, and does pythium start with better gem sites? (because they have 8 gems, instead of just 5).

My guess would be a pretender that gives free gems. I did 140% tax and patrol. You can do higher and have better scales. I just stuck with 140% because high quick often left me with unrest.

[DragonRider]

Damn you Heavy Cavalry! In the one spot that would most negatively impact my first three turns of expansion. Oh, and what's this? Bloodhenge Druids right smack dab in the middle of my ALTERNATE path to efficient expansion. That's awesome how that happened.

At least it's not as bad as that one test game where literally every adjacent province but one was all Heavy Cavalries.

I choose to blame Pythium for this outrage based on the fact that I was totally gonna buy those mercenaries.

[Duncan_Frost]

Wow, I have double everyone else's dominion. o.o'

[Soyweiser]

Damn you Heavy Cavalry! In the one spot that would most negatively impact my first three turns of expansion. Oh, and what's this? Bloodhenge Druids right smack dab in the middle of my ALTERNATE path to efficient expansion. That's awesome how that happened.

You have an alternate expansion path? Bah, we giants of the frozen north only need one. And our god Loki, in all his wisdom has only given us just what we need.

[Soyweiser]

Wow, I have double everyone else's dominion. o.o'

Which is a bad start for a nasty dominion type nation :). You are already a threat ;). (I guess you took dom10, and awake).

[Ragnars Wolves]

Bahhhhhhhh, you didn't want those cowards anyway... they just ran away and cost me most of my starting army!!:eek:

[DragonRider]

How could you possibly know that? The earliest turn in which a mercenary could be involved in combat hasn't resolved yet!

[Valerius]

Here is the link:
http://www.llamaserver.net/showScores.cgi?game=BootCamp

Thanks for posting the link, I should have thought to do that.

But I cannot really interpret the dominions part...

The dominion part can be tricky. It can help to combine it with the research scores. Generally if someone has an awake pretender they'll have them research the first turn rather than attack blindly. In the case of C'tis we see very high dominion and some research the first turn. This indicates an awake SC with some magic and very high dominion.

...and does pythium start with better gem sites? (because they have 8 gems, instead of just 5).

Yes, they start with 8 gems income (1w2a5s) for no good reason balance-wise. My best guess is the devs thought it thematic. It would actually be nice for CBM to reduce them to 5 gems.

I did 140% tax and patrol. You can do higher and have better scales. I just stuck with 140% because high quick often left me with unrest.

140% is a safe bet and I go with this a lot because usually I'm expanding with a few elite troops and don't want to risk high unrest reducing my resources to recruit them. A nation like Caelum could safely overtax much more because flyers make such good patrollers.

Damn you Heavy Cavalry! At least it's not as bad as that one test game where literally every adjacent province but one was all Heavy Cavalries

Yeah, I consider heavy cav/knights to the the worst overall (well, aside from things like those air mages that will lightning you to death). Barbarians can pack a punch but if you have archers or can recruit indie archers you can deal with them easily enough.

[Valerius]

Some thoughts on expansion:

If you don't have archers recruit indie archers. Very useful in dealing with things like barbarians. Even if you do have archers you may want to recruit indies to free up resources at your cap for recruiting other troops.

If you are attacking a province with archers use decoys. Just put a couple of units in a squad and place them in front and a little to the left or right of all your other troops. The archers will attack the first squad that comes in range (your decoy) and keep targeting it until it is killed/routed. Archers work best on massed targets and sometimes those decoys will survive quite a long time (sometimes the whole battle).

When facing heavy cavalry put your worst troops up front to absorb the first strike from the lances. Just as with archers, feel free to recruit indies for this rather than using cap resources.

If you are using an SC to expand don't attack a lizard province. Lizard shamans will cast curse on your SC. This will greatly increase your chance of receiving afflictions when wounded. Lizards are actually pretty hard hitting with two attacks per round but even if you escape that battle unscathed you've increased the odds of picking up an affliction along the way, impairing your expansion and reducing the deterrent effect of your SC. Being cursed is especially dangerous for pretenders without regeneration. BTW, use archers against lizards the same way you would barbarians.

Recruit indie scouts. Intelligence is very important and early on also has the added bonus of allowing you to contact other players and work out a deal before your expansion forces accidentally collide.

After you take whatever provinces around your cap you need for resources aim to expand outwards and set your borders. You can always come back later and take indies inside those borders. But don't be too aggressive. If you box in another player they may just attack, feeling they have no other choice. Also, if you take the province lead (especially a large lead) you'll become a target.

[Soyweiser]

Yes, they start with 8 gems income (1w2a5s) for no good reason balance-wise. My best guess is the devs thought it thematic. It would actually be nice for CBM to reduce them to 5 gems.


5s? That makes the capital a nice big target :). Neah, currently i'm not going to be in a position to seriously threaten anybody. :)

[durecellrabbit]

Yeah, I consider heavy cav/knights to the the worst overall (well, aside from things like those air mages that will lightning you to death). Barbarians can pack a punch but if you have archers or can recruit indie archers you can deal with them easily enough.

There are quite a few tough ones I run into semi often like the evil druids and undead that I have trouble with. There are others I've only run into once like Pegasus Cavalry, Kappa and the Dwarven guys so I don't know how strong they are.

Some thoughts on expansion:

If you don't have archers recruit indie archers. Very useful in dealing with things like barbarians. Even if you do have archers you may want to recruit indies to free up resources at your cap for recruiting other troops.

Using Indies is something I'm unsure about because they often have quite low resource provinces so I can only get a handful of soldiers per province and it seems a lot of work and time to get them into your army. I guess this could be because I have too little indy generals. I do get some to fetch troops from my capital but at points they'll end up standing around doing nothing and I feel like I wasted money on them. I think I might be getting too little scouts as well. It's hard to know if I just want a few or if I should be buying commanders regularly or if there is a balance and what it is.

[Soyweiser]

There are quite a few tough ones I run into semi often like the evil druids and undead that I have trouble with. There are others I've only run into once like Pegasus Cavalry, Kappa and the Dwarven guys so I don't know how strong they are.


Depending on your type of expansion force, the amphibious guys with the nets can also be very dangerous. Trapping your elite units while the chaff beats them to death.

[Valerius]

There are quite a few tough ones I run into semi often like the evil druids and undead that I have trouble with. There are others I've only run into once like Pegasus Cavalry, Kappa and the Dwarven guys so I don't know how strong they are.


Depending on your type of expansion force, the amphibious guys with the nets can also be very dangerous. Trapping your elite units while the chaff beats them to death.

I meant to say aside from mage provinces but even then I don't think my statement is correct. You both listed some good examples (definitely am wary of those nets with small forces of elite troops). Another type that can be a nasty surprise is elephants. So it depends on what you're fielding and whether you knew the province had those units or it was a surprise.


Using Indies is something I'm unsure about because they often have quite low resource provinces so I can only get a handful of soldiers per province and it seems a lot of work and time to get them into your army. I guess this could be because I have too little indy generals. I do get some to fetch troops from my capital but at points they'll end up standing around doing nothing and I feel like I wasted money on them. I think I might be getting too little scouts as well. It's hard to know if I just want a few or if I should be buying commanders regularly or if there is a balance and what it is.

Resources can definitely be a problem, especially if you took Sloth and your dominion spreads. I generally look for the tribal archers. They have map move 2 (the lion tribe actually has map move 3) and have a low resource cost. If you can get a province with about 30 resources you can recruit them quickly enough to help out in expansion. So I'll recruit a commander in one province and 10 tribal archers in another. The next I recruit another 10 archers and the commander goes to pick them up.

I wouldn't go overboard on recruiting non-scout indie commanders but having a few idle doesn't cost that much. To me it's better to have them available than to have to reinforce troops and need to use a mage to do it (assuming they have the leadership necessary to move the troops in sufficient numbers).

I'm a big fan of scouts. Of course the biggest reason is for intel. You can also use them to carry gems or other equipment for your armies. And they can act as mind hunt and seeking arrow catchers (obviously not in stealth mode for the latter use).

[Ragnars Wolves]

And before you all start thinking about getting froggy with Pythium....that 5S is a STARTING little stash NOT every turn (and I personally see no reason to decrease it). Besides, I have to have SOME research before those gems come into play anyway.

I can see where that old Western song is relevent here when expanding, I had never thought of it until V mentioned it, the I heard the sound of 'Don't Fence Me In' coming to me.

"Archers...Archers, my 5S for a pack od archers!!!:p

[Valerius]

And before you all start thinking about getting froggy with Pythium....that 5S is a STARTING little stash NOT every turn (and I personally see no reason to decrease it).

No, it's every turn.

[Ragnars Wolves]

Shhhhhhhh, OK then...come and get em:eek:

(lol, you would think I would know that):doh:

[DragonRider]

Aaaaaand Knights. In not one, but TWO provinces. Thus, the holy trinity of Most Common Independents You Don't Want to See is completed. Five fire gems say that I strike a rich vein of Elephants within three turns. Any takers?

[Valerius]

Normally I wouldn't use mages in expansion but you've got great research. Maybe it's worth doing some Evo. research and just have a mage fry those knights? Flame Bolt will basically kill each time it hits and with a precision of 7 you should get a good number of hits.

[Ragnars Wolves]

The list of Nations has no Mictlan , yet I seem to have run into them. Could someone please tell me who Mictlan is. OR, if I am mistaken, could the person that just ran into Pythium please let me know who you are.

Thanks

[Soyweiser]

Well this turn went great, no death in the expansion party, no new bandits popping up. I did see a province under the influence of some heathen god. No just hope that nobody else will attack the same prov as me :).

[durecellrabbit]

I won but half my cowardly monkeys fled. Time to go back and fetch them

[Duncan_Frost]

I like my starting position. Lots of farms and mountains for income/resources, and my expansion went pretty well, with only a couple of deaths (there were four unexpected Heavy Knights in there). Now to spread the plague as far as it can go! :sick:

[Ragnars Wolves]

Nevermind, got a little confused there.....

[Groundworm]

Not only am I very underwhelmed with my starting position, but the random events and general streaks of bad luck I have encountered have made this the worst start of any game I've tried, single or MP. Unrest at my capitol is so high (with a tax rate barely sufficient to cover my expenses) that I'm almost to the point where I can't recruit troops.

[Valerius]

Ugh, I see what you're talking about. I've had SP test games where my unrest was that high this early in the game but never been that unlucky in MP.

[Soyweiser]

Hi Pythium, Hi Caelum.

Pythium, could we come to some agreement about Obalshin? I would hate for us both to bump heads there.

[Ragnars Wolves]

Check your privite messages:)

[Duncan_Frost]

Whoops, forgot to recruit another researcher!

Drat mountains, there goes my lovely smooth expansion plans. Ah well, it let me restock and resupply my army, at least...

[DragonRider]

Oh god, it's a black candle spreading Heat and Death. There are only two answers to that riddle, and they're both just awful.

[Duncan_Frost]

Oh god, it's a black candle spreading Heat and Death. There are only two answers to that riddle, and they're both just awful.

Well that'd be me. Hello neighbour! (Positive scales in your dominion are negative to other nations, right? Hence the death?)

[DragonRider]

No, whatever your scales are they are for everybody, meaning that the owner of that dominion almost certainly took Heat and Death. Death is generally a very unpopular choice, so I figure the most likely owners are C'tis (who have a vested interest in making their dominion a hellhole for everybody) and Abysia (who allegedly are not affected by the supply penalty for Death scales). Those being the two nations that I really didn't want to start near.

It's technically possible that the province just had a site that increased its Death scale, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

[Soyweiser]

It's technically possible that the province just had a site that increased its Death scale, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

A death scale site would be nice. Usually generates Death gems, which are always useful.

Somehow one of my provs has misf 3 at the moment, so I think there is a site there.

[rdonj]

No, whatever your scales are they are for everybody, meaning that the owner of that dominion almost certainly took Heat and Death. Death is generally a very unpopular choice, so I figure the most likely owners are C'tis (who have a vested interest in making their dominion a hellhole for everybody) and Abysia (who allegedly are not affected by the supply penalty for Death scales). Those being the two nations that I really didn't want to start near.

It's technically possible that the province just had a site that increased its Death scale, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

Scales DO show up the same for everybody, yes. However, positive scales are not positive in negative dominion. Technically I think that what we decided was that most scales turn out to actually be neutral, with the exception the luck scale. However this is one of the more arcane subjects in dominions, and I can't be absolutely positive my recollection is correct here (there's a lot of conflicting statements on the matter too, and I can't be bothered to go looking right now). Anyways, assume that enemy dominion means neutral effect at best, and negative at worst.

*waits for calahan to come in here and rail at him for spreading misinformation :)*

[DragonRider]

Wait...so if I control a province as Marignon, but its dominion is firmly under the influence of Man, and Man has Growth 3, I see three wheat symbols but there's no effect on the income or population growth in that province? But...what if I also have Growth 3? Normally dominion effects gradually change from one side's alignment to another's as dominion strength changes hands, doesn't it? So do I instantly jump from effectively neutral Growth effects to Growth 3 as soon as dominion becomes neutral or friendly in that province? Or do I whittle it down to Growth 0, and then back up to a working Growth 3?

This is no fair. I read the instructions and everything! I should know stuff like this!

[Ragnars Wolves]

Extension asked for:

I will be going on a field trip to a 'Dig' in South America for part of my Grad school work in Anthropology. This will be starting starting Weds Sept 15th and I will return Monday Sept 20th.

Obviously, because of the location in the jungle, I will not be able to get internet time and would ask for an extension for that period. I understand we are moving right along, but this was an unexpected opportunity (to be asked to go) and I need to take advantage of it.

If you don't or can't wait, I will try and find a sub. But at this late date it will be hard to find a suitable sub AND fill them in on what the heck I am doing (as I am not really sure)

I will be able to do a turn late Tuesday or VERY early Weds and another on the following Monday evening.

Please Let me know, and BTW other than the occasional normal work (yep,I have to do that also) or home crisis, I am in for the duration.

Sorry guys:sick:

Rags

[Valerius]

Extension asked for:

I will be going on a field trip to a 'Dig' in South America for part of my Grad school work in Anthropology. This will be starting starting Weds Sept 15th and I will return Monday Sept 20th.


That sounds like a great opportunity! But that's a long time to put the game on hold at this early stage. See if you can find a sub and if you don't have any luck I'll see what I can do. Worst case scenario, and if the other players don't object, I can sub until you return. If you haven't found anyone by Tues. please send me any whatever guidelines you may have and I can either pass them on to a sub or follow them myself.

[Duncan_Frost]

Personally I don't mind if we put the game on hold.

[Valerius]

If everyone is ok with it, then of course I'm quite willing to put the game on hold. My concern is just with people losing interest due to the delay.

[durecellrabbit]

Soyweiser, check you PMs.

[rdonj]

Wait...so if I control a province as Marignon, but its dominion is firmly under the influence of Man, and Man has Growth 3, I see three wheat symbols but there's no effect on the income or population growth in that province? But...what if I also have Growth 3? Normally dominion effects gradually change from one side's alignment to another's as dominion strength changes hands, doesn't it? So do I instantly jump from effectively neutral Growth effects to Growth 3 as soon as dominion becomes neutral or friendly in that province? Or do I whittle it down to Growth 0, and then back up to a working Growth 3?

This is no fair. I read the instructions and everything! I should know stuff like this!

Anecdotal evidence that I didn't pay that close of attention to says that I think the growth scale will still increase your population, just not your gold income. Dominion can't really be neutral... except in provinces where no one's dominion has spread to yet. Otherwise it's always positive or negative. But if it's positive, you should instantly jump up to effective growth 3 scales. That dominion shift thing is only for scales that aren't the same.

Don't worry if you don't have this down correctly... dominions has some really strange moments, and there are some questions the manual just doesn't answer. You should also read the "lies my manual told me" thread... because there are some places where it isn't 100% correct, especially after all the patching that's been done.

[Soyweiser]

Soyweiser, check you PMs.

You have a reply. Sorry about the delay.

Ontopic:

Don't mind a delay, but would rather keep playing. But this early in the game, I think that a sub would really ruin Ragnars plans.

[DragonRider]

Yeah, turns 10 through 15 or whatever are probably really formative in terms of getting your midgame strategy moving and setting diplomatic tones for your early neighbors. It's a shame to have to stop playing for so long, but I feel like it'd be worse to mess up the flow for Pythium and everybody around them.

On another note...

To my neighbor to the west, whomever you may be: you would do well to avoid expanding eastward into the province of Tirannea, should you have had any plans to do so. It is clearly within my area of influence, and troops will be en route to assert formal control over it shortly. It would be unfortunate if there were to be an embarrassing international incident.

[Ragnars Wolves]

Thank you all for the support!!

I agree that as I am meeting Nations for the first time, this is a crucial time to both stop AND to have a sub. Of course I would prefer an extension but Valerius has said he would sub for me. He is Very good and I would be in very capable hands, and if everyone wants to move forward I will accept his gracious offer and fill him in on what I am trying to accomplish. But right now is where I might make a mistake and he won't, I just want to make sure YOU guys decide, but we need to decide NOW as I leave in about 36 hours.

Just let me know..:D

[Valerius]

Ragnars Wolves, please PM me some info on what you would like done. It seems there's some support for putting the game on hold but if we do continue I'd like some guidelines to give to a sub or follow myself.

Another option is we can temporarily go to 48 hour hosting to keep the game moving but minimize the number of turns you miss.

[durecellrabbit]

I don't mind a timer increase to minimize the number of turns.

[Duncan_Frost]

Letting Valerius sub in, while also increasing the timer, seems like the best idea to me. :)

[Ragnars Wolves]

OK, that will be the plan. But remember guys, 48 hours only means IF you WAIT 48 hours before sending in your turn. Sending it in as we all have been (congrats to a GREAT crew on keeping agame moving) I will still miss around 7 turns instead of 3.

I KNOW Valerius can do wonders for me in that amount of turns and hopefully point me in a direction I have failed to see. I will do the next turn and then will hand it over. To those I have treaties with, they will be explained FULLY and there is nothing to worry about.


Rags

[Valerius]

OK, that will be the plan. But remember guys, 48 hours only means IF you WAIT 48 hours before sending in your turn. Sending it in as we all have been (congrats to a GREAT crew on keeping agame moving) I will still miss around 7 turns instead of 3.

No problem. I'll switch to 48 hour hosting and turn off quickhost. This means that even if all turns are in the game will not host until a full 48 hours have elapsed.

[Duncan_Frost]

Arena deathmatch, hmm? It's tempting...

Edit: Oh hi there Shinuyama, how are you, my tiny goblin friends?

[Groundworm]

Greetings, C'tis. We are well, and we thank you for asking. How are the lizard people faring?

Also, check your PMs. :)

[Ragnars Wolves]

durecellrabbit,

You are the last one to submit your present turn. If you could get this one in I could do 1 more tonight before I leave and turn it over to Valerius and that way maybe only miss 2 turns.

If you can't I will just forward the info to Valerius and focus on not getting bit by a REAL Pythium like creature this week!!

[Ragnars Wolves]

WOW....i'm a Corporal now (don't feel any smarter....but I MUST be since they promoted me)!!

OK all you Privites...LAY DOWN YOUR ARMS AND SURRENDER!!! (Lets see how far thisa gets me).

[Ragnars Wolves]

Ok Gentlemen, I am turning it over to Valerius while I hack my way thru the Jungle. Any diplomacy needs to go thru him and he has my full confidence on any move he decideds to make.

I have filled him on on treaties and they will be observed.

And to those watching the graphs....I have about 2 more provinces and I will be for the most part done expanding, so someone else can take the lead.;)

With a 48 hour turnaround I should miss 2 turns as I will be back around 3 PM CST I am -5 GMT to our friends in other countries.

Have a GREAT weekend and I am going on a trip of a lifetime!!!:D

[Valerius]

Have fun!

Did you send me info on diplo agreements? I don't recall getting anything, though I assume you are at peace and I intend to keep it that way.

Also, any info on what you would like built/recruited/researched?

[Ragnars Wolves]

LOL, I think I wrote a novel, check PM's and thanks!!

Guys, Have a GREAT weekend and will see you MONDAY!!

[Valerius]

Yes, got it! :)

Ok, everyone, we are temporarily on 48 hour hosting. This will also postpone the current turn by 24 hours. And I've turned off quickhost so we will use the full 48 hours for every turn.

If everything goes smoothly the regent of Pythium will be in place for only two months. :)

[durecellrabbit]

Yes, got it! :)

Ok, everyone, we are temporarily on 48 hour hosting. This will also postpone the current turn by 24 hours. And I've turned off quickhost so we will use the full 48 hours for every turn.

If everything goes smoothly the regent of Pythium will be in place for only two months. :)

This current turn (10) or from next turn?

[Valerius]

This current turn (10) or from next turn?

Doh! You're right - it should have been next turn. Ok, I'm not going to rollback the hosting time since that often doesn't end well. But I'll turn on quickhost again so once Marignon's turn arrives the game will host. Then I'll turn off quickhost until Ragnar returns.

[DragonRider]

Whoops. Sorry for holding things up. Once I saw that quickhost had already been turned off, I figured it wouldn't matter if I dragged my feet a bit while I waited to see if Abysia responded to my PM before I had to lock in my turn. If we agreed on something that changed my immediate plans, I'd have had to redo my turn, which would also entail re-writing potentially lengthy missives to Caelum, so I tried to wait before I finalized everything.

I'll have it submitted in a few minutes.

[Valerius]

Whoops. Sorry for holding things up. Once I saw that quickhost had already been turned off, I figured it wouldn't matter if I dragged my feet a bit while I waited to see if Abysia responded to my PM before I had to lock in my turn.

Completely understandable. And actually this is why I was tempted to just leave things as-is instead of fixing my error by temporarily restoring quickhost. Making a change and then undoing it is just asking for trouble. The worst case is postponing hosting and then reducing it. Between the time you postpone and then decrease the hosting time someone could check the server and think they have more time left than actually turns out to be the case.

Anyway, thanks for sending your turn so quickly!

So, quickhost is off again and for the next two turns we are on a fixed hosting time. The game will host 21:10 GMT on Friday and Sunday.

[Duncan_Frost]

Aah... crap, I forgot to send my turn in! >.<

[Valerius]

My two turn stewardship of Pythium has come to an end. As I'd hoped, it was uneventful and I was able to just follow Ragnar's instructions.

So I am now turning quickhost back on (meaning effective immediately the game will host when all turns are in) and returning the hosting interval to 24 hours (note that this will not roll-back the current deadline set for 21:10 GMT Tuesday).

[Ragnars Wolves]

GREETINGS....

Back the no worse for wear (except bug bites as big as my fist!!)

You can turn it back over to me and I will do the turn this afternoon ot tonight.

Thanks to all for putting up with quickhost being off and a BIG thanks to Valerius for helping not only me but the whole game out by keeping it moving.

THANK YOU VALERIOS!!!

(if you could just give me a paragragh on what went down I would appreciate it, especially any diplomacy that affects me and others).

[Soyweiser]

Welcome back Ragnar!

And of course thanks Valerious. As always :)

[Ragnars Wolves]

Shinuyama and Pythium dissolve all agreements on turn 16. Hostilties (if any) may begin turn 19.

[Groundworm]

Noted. Just to clarify: we'll be free, if we so choose, to give the order to move our troops into enemy territory on turn 19, and hostilities will then commence on turn 20. If we so choose.

Agreed?

[Ragnars Wolves]

I think we are jumping the gun on hostilities...there are other reasons why a Nap may be broken. However, for the sake of clarifacation...

Turn 16 gave notice (allows you to start to prepare) turn 1.
Turn 17 is turn 2
Turn 18 is turn 3
Turn 19 is turn 4 Hostilities (IF ANY) may begin.

I would never sneak attack anyone but I DO wonder this for the future...I have NOT seen 1 nap made public in the forum. So....if we are having binding Naps why are we not making them public.

Just a Noob question that seems odd (as I don't want to be stabbed in the back either).

[Valerius]

I would never sneak attack anyone but I DO wonder this for the future...I have NOT seen 1 nap made public in the forum. So....if we are having binding Naps why are we not making them public.

See my first post regarding my opinion regarding diplomacy - I never specify anything. Anyone is free to violate a NAP - and accept the consequences.

However, for the sake of clarifacation...

Turn 16 gave notice (allows you to start to prepare) turn 1.
Turn 17 is turn 2
Turn 18 is turn 3
Turn 19 is turn 4 Hostilities (IF ANY) may begin.

It seems to me you're saying attack orders can be issued on turn 18, with the battles taking place on turn 19. While Groundworm's understanding is that orders are given on turn 19, with the battles taking place on turn 20. Sound right? If so, you'll need to decide which of your interpretations will apply (I've seen both used for NAP 3's - though more commonly your interpretation). But this is an example of why it's helpful to clarify this.

[Soyweiser]

Unrelated to the current discussion.

Damnnit, I hate it when move orders fail.

Sorry about the lack of troops on your cap Caelum. Somebody didn't want to move...

[Ragnars Wolves]

I talked to GW in a PM and hhe didn't say anything about my counter explanation. Actually, I had no idea who was right....I just asked my Dad how it worked (GrudgeBringer)and used his understanding. He said the same thing you did, that different people look at it different ways, and some don't look or care about it at all. I guess the next time I will take 2 extra minutes to figure it out so there isn't a problem and always do it the same way.

GW and I both understand that this is a war game and it isn't personal. In fact, in the only other game I have played (we are on turn 16 or so also) we are allies. But for THIS game, maybe it is good this came up so that everyone can ask how it will work with them and not have a big blowup.

[DragonRider]

Personally, my understanding is that if the message breaking the pact arrives at turn 16, it is appropriate to give invasion orders on turn 18 so the battle happens at 19. The idea is to give the person three turns to prepare before the war starts. Under that interpretation, if the defender has troops three turns away from the border, they can be there to reinforce it before the first battle happens (since movement into friendly territory always resolves before movement into enemy territory). That tells me that the terms were honored.

[Soyweiser]

Jotunheim now officially mourns the death of our once proud prophet. Borme is dead, and he will be missed.

Is anybody already trading hammers? :)

I would also be open to trade a few nature gems for water gems. (I have spare nature, want some water).

[Duncan_Frost]

I have one guy who can make hammers and he's one of my biggest research monkies... but if you really want some then by all means send me your stuff in return

[DragonRider]

Oh boy. Two Knight invasions in a row. Gotta love those.

But here's a question. Which of the following is true?

1) If one army routs, but the second army loses its last commander before the battle is totally over, the second army will keep fighting anyway.

2) A hidden scout in a province counts as a commander for any troops fighting in that province, so they won't rout even if all their visible commanders die.

3) Royal Guards are total badasses and think commanders are for suckers anyway.

Because the thing that just happened isn't really in agreement with what I thought I knew about the game. The first one sounds the most reasonable but I could have sworn that it was specifically not true, and that battles could rarely be won by whoever routs the slowest.

[durecellrabbit]

We've started on the 20+ turns now and some nations are at war. Is the turn timer going to go up soon?

[Valerius]

Oh boy. Two Knight invasions in a row. Gotta love those.

But here's a question. Which of the following is true?

1) If one army routs, but the second army loses its last commander before the battle is totally over, the second army will keep fighting anyway.

2) A hidden scout in a province counts as a commander for any troops fighting in that province, so they won't rout even if all their visible commanders die.

3) Royal Guards are total badasses and think commanders are for suckers anyway.

Because the thing that just happened isn't really in agreement with what I thought I knew about the game. The first one sounds the most reasonable but I could have sworn that it was specifically not true, and that battles could rarely be won by whoever routs the slowest.

Hidden scouts definitely don't count as commanders. Did you find out anything about option 1? I know the type of situation you're talking about but am not sure that is the mechanic at work.

We've started on the 20+ turns now and some nations are at war. Is the turn timer going to go up soon?

Sorry; hosting interval has now been set to 48 hours (in the process postponing the current turn by 24 hours).

[Soyweiser]

Epic attacks by Marignon. Methinks Abysia just got destroyed... I think that the only way to stop the inquisition now is to all team up and destroy Marignon for this arrogance!

(Disclamer: I share no border with Marignon, so a call to arms is easy and low risk for me to make ;) ).

[Soyweiser]

Epic attacks by Marignon. Methinks Abysia just got destroyed... I think that the only way to stop the inquisition now is to all team up and destroy Marignon for this arrogance!

(Disclamer: I share no border with Marignon, so a call to arms is easy and low risk for me to make ;) ).

Another thing, while I'm the first to publicly voice my concern about the growing power curve of Marignon. Others have also done so privately in the past. So, this isn't one man concern ;).

[DragonRider]

And that was the day we all learned a valuable lesson about the importance of province defense!

Not that that alone would have been likely to save them; the entire game up to now has been leading up to this, and a few specific actions in the last 3-4 turns sealed it. I have a list of contingency plans three feet long, a lot of which probably won't ever get employed at this point. Too bad...I was really looking forward to one of them! It would have been glorious and thematic, but it's 3-4 turns out and would be a waste of resources at this point.

Hey Soyweiser, I have a fun idea. Let's have a race! We'll see which happens first: you finish taking Caelum's capital which you've been camping outside of for like a year, or I crush the entire nation of Abysia. Ready...go!

[arnob]

Hello All

This is my first and certainly my last e-mail in this game. I currently have some big guys from cold in my capital and I guess they're not here just for the hot tea ...

I try to contruct another fort in another province, but guess what, some independant barbarians invade it just one turn before it finish .... :doh:

Arnob

[Valerius]

It looks like you've got several fights going on here! If things don't go well please try to hang in there until the end (or almost the end) instead of going AI. You'll put up a better last stand than the AI and this really does help make for a better game. Plus, the worse things get, the quicker your turns will be so it shouldn't even take much time. ;)

[arnob]

It looks like you've got several fights going on here! If things don't go well please try to hang in there until the end (or almost the end) instead of going AI. You'll put up a better last stand than the AI and this really does help make for a better game. Plus, the worse things get, the quicker your turns will be so it shouldn't even take much time. ;)


I confirm that my last turn was very quick but be sure that I'll play until the end.! Just the time to recruit some militias and I'll kick the big *** of the big giants :D

Arnob

[Soyweiser]

It looks like you've got several fights going on here! If things don't go well please try to hang in there until the end (or almost the end) instead of going AI. You'll put up a better last stand than the AI and this really does help make for a better game. Plus, the worse things get, the quicker your turns will be so it shouldn't even take much time. ;)


I confirm that my last turn was very quick but be sure that I'll play until the end.! Just the time to recruit some militias and I'll kick the big *** of the big giants :D

Arnob

Without mammoths? (Who should live free, and not in slavery. Free the animals!). I doubt that. Those things really kicked my oversized hiney. I don't like those. I do like militia. Free exp ;).

And I kinda misjudged your fort. Never really paid attention to the defense stat. 700 is quite a lot :) I gather you still have around 250 left right? (Yeah, that is the bad thing about using small elite forces, even when the forces are giants, they don't have enough punch to open up the gates all that quick. And while I have boulder throwers, they only count as 1 giant extra in each siege. I was doubting it was worth the cost of getting the, horrible in combat, expensive, slow, boulder throwers.)

And sorry about the whole attacking you. But I was kinda hemmed in up there, and you where my weakest neighbour. (Who still put up quite a fight).

Jotun 'Peta' Heim

[arnob]

It looks like you've got several fights going on here! If things don't go well please try to hang in there until the end (or almost the end) instead of going AI. You'll put up a better last stand than the AI and this really does help make for a better game. Plus, the worse things get, the quicker your turns will be so it shouldn't even take much time. ;)


I confirm that my last turn was very quick but be sure that I'll play until the end.! Just the time to recruit some militias and I'll kick the big *** of the big giants :D

Arnob

Without mammoths? (Who should live free, and not in slavery. Free the animals!). I doubt that. Those things really kicked my oversized hiney. I don't like those. I do like militia. Free exp ;).

And I kinda misjudged your fort. Never really paid attention to the defense stat. 700 is quite a lot :) I gather you still have around 250 left right?

And sorry about the whole attacking you. But I was kinda hemmed in up there, and you where my weakest neighbourh. (Who still put up quite a fight).

Jotun 'Peta' Heim

I just check the defense, it left only 632. So just a few years and it should be good ...

[Soyweiser]

I just check the defense, it left only 632. So just a few years and it should be good ...

Seriously? I doubt there are more than 2 people left inside. And the last few turns my troops should have taken of around 100 def each turn.

[Soyweiser]

Dratz... could anybody confirm to me that this game is running diversity_1_1 (version 1.04)? (That is what it says in my mod list)

Somehow I only seem to have diversity_1_1 (version 1.01).

So I'm wondering if this game is using version 1.04 of the EDM, or 1.1 of the EDM (which is the most recent, and I think the versioning ingame is a bit bugged and gives an additional 0. (so version 1.1 becomes 1.01 (as my CBM is listed as 1.06)).

[Valerius]

Those two versions are probably the same thing. IIRC, when EDM 1.1 was first released it still said 1.04. I'm guessing that was the version that was uploaded to the llamaserver, though the one posted in the EDM thread (and that you have) was later corrected. Other than that correction they are the same file (and the mod filename is the same: diversity_1_1.dm).

[Valerius]

I just check the defense, it left only 632. So just a few years and it should be good ...

Seriously? I doubt there are more than 2 people left inside. And the last few turns my troops should have taken of around 100 def each turn.

Maybe the turn you attacked Caelum recruited a bunch of troops and they're inside? Flyers are quite good a sieging/defending castles.

[DragonRider]

It's also possible to summon units into a fortress even after a siege has started. Having all your mages spam weak conjurations can be a good way to keep a castle standing if you're desperate. Caelum's research stalled a long time ago, though, so I kind of doubt there are any mages left in there.

[Valerius]

Good point. And Caelum has easy access to Call of the Winds, which gives a nice boost to defense at an affordable price. Of course if he has no mages left that won't do him any good.

This also illustrates the difference between playing to the end and going AI early. Instead of the AI suiciding its forces by trying to break a siege, a player can force their attacker to expend considerable resources to breach the walls and take the fort. In the meantime they can launch attacks against lightly defended provinces if they still have any kind of raiding potential.

[Soyweiser]

Yeah, but staying in your cap also makes you vulnerable to the tactic that you leave only one small defender, and go around the cap and conquer some more provinces. (And even if you attack this token force, your opponent now knows your current tactics, so change the way you place your troops (This is actually how I took out some of Caelums mages, few flanking forces, worked again and again. While he should have placed his troops in a far flank to prevent my troops from running around his main forces (I learned some placement tricks in a blitz long ago when my main force chased some stupid troops all over the battlefield, while a flanking force of mages blasted them to smithereens)).

Yeah, and the cap is now breached. Just piled a lot of giants at the door.

[Valerius]

Yeah, but staying in your cap also makes you vulnerable to the tactic that you leave only one small defender, and go around the cap and conquer some more provinces.

Absolutely; hiding in forts is no way to win a war. But if the war is lost and that's all you have left it's worth making your opponent work as hard as possible to breach the walls and then storm the castle.

[DragonRider]

Good point. And Caelum has easy access to Call of the Winds, which gives a nice boost to defense at an affordable price.

Don't the birds that you get from that spell have a massive penalty to siege effectiveness? I'm pretty sure I remember hearing that somewhere.

[Valerius]

Right, forgot to mention that! Black hawks are ok at defending forts but horrible at sieging them. Here's some numbers from a test I ran: 32 black hawks were able to hold off 10 Str. 20 Jotuns but when the situation was reversed it required almost 140 hawks to make progress against those same 10 giants in their fort.

[DragonRider]

Really. I had assumed that their siege and counter-siege potential were both equally abysmal, but I guess they're one of the most gem-efficient defenders after all.

[Soyweiser]

Crap! Bought the wrong commanders last turn. Wanted to buy a Jarl, for his H1, got a Herse... which is just sacred... That is what I get for trying to save gold and not buying the normal H2 priest. I feel very stupid now...

[Soyweiser]

Hi Bootcamp, how is everybody doing? I would have really expected somebody to have cast a global by now. As most indies have been captured by now. (24 left, with a lot of them being water provinces).

I have some use for a crystal coin, anybody have one to trade? Could trade it for a Moonvine Bracelet for example.

Ps: I know it is still a long way off, but just to inform all of you guys. I'm at a lan party 15 and 16 Oct. So I don't think I will be able to do my turn. (There will be internet, but I don't think I will be logging into my mail there, nor have a lot of time to do my turn then. (I think we will be at turn 35 or something then)). Hopefully I'll remember this before the that weekend and post it again. But I will be kinda busy then (I'm one of the organizers of the party), so I would like to ask for an extension in advance.

[DragonRider]

Hi Bootcamp, how is everybody doing? I would have really expected somebody to have cast a global by now. As most indies have been captured by now. (24 left, with a lot of them being water provinces).

I have some use for a crystal coin, anybody have one to trade? Could trade it for a Moonvine Bracelet for example.

Ps: I know it is still a long way off, but just to inform all of you guys. I'm at a lan party 15 and 16 Oct. So I don't think I will be able to do my turn. (There will be internet, but I don't think I will be logging into my mail there, nor have a lot of time to do my turn then. (I think we will be at turn 35 or something then)). Hopefully I'll remember this before the that weekend and post it again. But I will be kinda busy then (I'm one of the organizers of the party), so I would like to ask for an extension in advance.

The magicks required to forge a Crystal Coin should be known to me before the month is out. The question is...why should I be so willing to give it to the one who has so cruelly attempted to incite the other nations of the world against me, when I had never done any harm to you (a few months before exploding through Pythium and nearly matching my size, no less)? Especially given the fact that I would most likely need to see to its construction personally when there is so much to be done.

Perhaps a Moonvine Bracelet together with Boots of Youth would be a suitable offering to convince me to look past such matters. Or, if blood magic is beyond you, an additional 10-gem surcharge (payable in any combination of nature and death gems) would be acceptable in the boots' stead.

If an agreement can be reached, I should be able to see to it that the coin is in your possession by early autumn.

--Sjohara, Will of the Eternal Flame

[Soyweiser]

Sorry about the horrible late reaction.

But apparantly my assumptions about the paths I had where vastly mistaken. I currently don't have the capabilities to make a moonvine bracelet.

Does the misfortune scale also give worse random magic picks? It almost looks like it :). In all my test games I always had at least one of the picks I wanted before end of the first year. This game none... And when I finally get a gygja with +1 magic it is a n2b2d2 one.

[Valerius]

Ps: I know it is still a long way off, but just to inform all of you guys. I'm at a lan party 15 and 16 Oct. So I don't think I will be able to do my turn. (There will be internet, but I don't think I will be logging into my mail there, nor have a lot of time to do my turn then. (I think we will be at turn 35 or something then)). Hopefully I'll remember this before the that weekend and post it again. But I will be kinda busy then (I'm one of the organizers of the party), so I would like to ask for an extension in advance.

No problem. I'll make a note of it but please try to remind me as well next week.

Does the misfortune scale also give worse random magic picks? It almost looks like it :). In all my test games I always had at least one of the picks I wanted before end of the first year. This game none... And when I finally get a gygja with +1 magic it is a n2b2d2 one.

I don't think it does but sometimes it can seem like the random number generator is broken when you are waiting for a particular random path to appear. :)


Also, I notice C'tis and Abysia both staled this past turn so I'll keep an eye on things. Seems like they may both be at war but still have some strength left?

[Ragnars Wolves]

Ahhhh, spreaking of that...I am out of town from the 16th (Thursday) until Monday the 20th.

I have 2 provinces left and no army...If not destroyed by then I will set myself to AI so as to not upset the flow of the game.

So PLEASE end it quickly....

Thanks to all for a fun and amusing game and I look forward to seeing you guys agian!!:)

[arnob]

Thanks all for the game ! The winged man are no longer in game ...

Two much errors in the beginning, I will to it better the next time !

Be carefull of Marignon :-)

Arnob

[Valerius]

Thanks for playing arnob and nice job playing it through to the end.

Ragnars Wolves, also nice job continuing to fight. It appears things went downhill after your good start?

It seems to me this game is moving at a quick pace in the sense that early wars are being fought and nations eliminated. That certainly makes for an action-packed game.

[durecellrabbit]

Ragnar seemed to have a lot of Gladiators in his army so after a few fights he ran out of steam.

[Ragnars Wolves]

That isn't exactly true....

I got into a fight with one nation and 2 others broke naps and joined in on me. However, they BOTH waited the specified time and acted Honorably so I have no problem with either (good job, I should have seen it coming). But I realized I had NO chance so I decided to try a few things.

Gladiators...I didn't use them in my army excep as arrow catchers in front should i fight (since they would die anyway why not use cheap fodder).

I may be giving away a secret (or maybe it isn't a secret) but I was reading a post about Pangea and Maenads. It was describing how those little buggers inside a fort could repair the fort and make the siege last forever.

I decided to try that with Gladiators, as long as they are NOT set on patrol they will NOT join the fight for the castle until the walls are broken (that is my understanding). It seemed to work ok.:p

[Ragnars Wolves]

BTW, thank you Valerius for setting this up and helping us get our feet wet. You did a GREAT job as admin and I think we all thank you for it!!!

[DragonRider]

Has anyone heard from C'tis lately? They apparently staled last turn, and it's looking like there's a decent possibility that they'll stale again overnight. I'm not really sure what the standard policy is on this sort of thing. Should we delay hosting until we can find out what's happening?

[Valerius]

BTW, thank you Valerius for setting this up and helping us get our feet wet. You did a GREAT job as admin and I think we all thank you for it!!!

You're welcome! :) I hope everyone is enjoying the game.


Has anyone heard from C'tis lately? They apparently staled last turn, and it's looking like there's a decent possibility that they'll stale again overnight. I'm not really sure what the standard policy is on this sort of thing. Should we delay hosting until we can find out what's happening?

I've been keeping an eye on the server, hoping C'tis' turn would arrive but no luck. I believe C'tis is at war so a stale would be unfortunate. Duncan_Frost hasn't responded to my message or logged in since the 6th so I'll postpone hosting by 24 hours and if I don't hear anything I'll look for a sub.

[durecellrabbit]

Who's side of the war is C'tis on anyway?

[Valerius]

Still no word from C'tis so I've delayed hosting again and posted for a sub.

[Valerius]

Everyone please welcome Pjoo to the game as the new ruler of C'tis! If you have diplomatic agreements with C'tis please PM him to let him know.

[Pjoo]

Vive la révolution! The most awesomest Pjoo drove away the spirit of the entity that was most definetly a spirit of an ancient Prince of Death that was banished into the Sphinx, and now Pjoo now inhabits the damn rock, pretending to be their pretender.


Who's side of the war is C'tis on anyway?
As C'tis, I have to say I do not have the damnest idea, but as the new ruler of C'tis I have to recheck the geopolitical situation.

Any clarification on the current situation would be welcome, along with the diplomatic proposals are welcome, and encouraged.
When it comes to trade, I would need bunch of stuff, especially gems of the earthen variety. As I don't have damnest idea about the current non-aggression pacts, they will be considered null on turn 34 unless renewed. This is just so I get to review who I have them with and actually verify I have them.
Any aggression or threats, trying to get concession out of C'tis due to recent disarray will be met with the full power of the C'tian arsenal of magic. Tremble mortals!

[Pjoo]

New turn dawns!
Apparently you cannot edit your posts, but well... :/


Lizard News Channel is concerned about the new domestic policy concerning Skull Mentors, that has many of our Pretender-God-fearing, patriotic citizens weary. Apparently, Skull Mentors have been redistributed based on merit, instead of favoritism, which is radical change from the previous policies of Mr. Sphinx. While some of those liberal scum are happy about the change, claiming "It allows for more specialized researchers" and "it frees up the less experienced for forging and magic sites searching", and also point that the social experiment worked in Bandar-Logterdam, who are on their way to surpassing C'tis as the most magically advanced nation in the world, it is bad! We do not care about the Bandar-Logsterdam, who are bunch of astral-magic using moralless apes. The change is direcly in conflict with the C'tian values of Religion, Nation and Family values. Besides, rewarding talent and aiming for utilitarianism instead of rewarding the brown-noses is just unnatural!
Lizard News, Just and Unbiased

[DragonRider]

Welcome to the game, Pjoo. I just sent you a PM with a bunch of important information about where C'tis stands at the moment.

[Pjoo]

Crystal Ball News Network reporting...
Lizard News Channel headquarters is reported to have been destroyed in a recent, unexplainable earthquake. No one survived, Abysia is suspected of the incident. Our experts say the lava-men have gained access to earth magics of mass destruction.
On the other news, Mr. Sphinx has made another promise in his Godhood ascension champaign! According to Mr. Sphinx's personal spokeslizard, if he is to win his campaign and become the new God, of the opposing pretender gods, only the jerks will go to be tortured in Tartarus! Some of the other pretenders will be getting accomodations with very good heating from the Inferno, while the most nicest will get to be Mr. Sphinx's own personal minions! Support Mr. Sphinx for Godhood!

[Ragnars Wolves]

Gentlemen, I want to thank Valerius for putting this game together, and all of you for making my MP debut a fun (though short) one.

I will be leaving to go out of the country Thursday and have 2 provinces left. I have fought up till now but Staling isn't in my nature. I will complete turns up until Thursday Early Morning and then I will set it to AI so you don't have to wait on me. I would stick it out if I wasn't leaving, but see no reason to drag out the obvious and make everyone wait also....There is one Goody left, My Capitol is available for the one that can get there first and whip the defenders!!!

Good Luck guys and see you in the next one!!!!!!

For those of you in other games with me I will be back Monday noonish and have tried to work something out for each game.

[Valerius]

Ragnar, thanks for fighting it out as long as possible. I think it's ok to set yourself AI when you leave (though if the rest of you prefer I can play out Pythium's last stand).

Pjoo, I'm enjoying the Lizard News Channel, now Crystal Ball News Nework, updates. Mr Sphinx may well have my support for Godhood. Unfortunately my vote doesn't count for anything but perhaps you'll manage to convince the other players of the justness of the lizard cause.

[Ragnars Wolves]

NP, I 'Think' I just set it to Ai and sent it in...I had done the turn and when I saw that I was not ging to get another one in I redid the turn by setting it AI...never done that so I wonder if it took.


Thanks all!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[Soyweiser]

Thanks for playing Ragnars Wolves!

I will be able to play this turn tonight (or earlier at least when it hosts) But I will not be able to play another turn before Sunday. So I would like to ask an extension for next turn till Sunday.

[Valerius]

No problem. I'll set it for late Sunday (maybe 23:00 GMT?).

[Pjoo]

Crystal Ball News Network reporting live from the bottom of the ocean...
With the lifting of the ban on study of Hydromancy, our researchers have discovered that for some reason, distance that could on land be travelled in several months, only takes two underwater! While most common folk attribute this to cutting corners, our researchers are adamant that the water also creates some kind of anomaly in time-space-magic-continuum, whatever that is.
As the result, underwater provinces are being seized from the evil Ictyid Lords, to be used for troop transportation, logistics and undisclosed plans involving hugs and puppies.
The corals in the province, not being cold-blooded, in fact having no blood at all, have long time ago caught diseases and died, so their usage in armament industry is impossible, and while initially hopeful that the underwater provinces would provide a solid tax base, the population is insisting on paying with some strange enchanted calms, making the provinces useless for any materialistic gain.

Meanwhile, on the eastern front, C'tis army is making their way into Abysia, and have already scored several major tactical and strategic victories, while our so called allies have mostly been picking off the undefended provinces. While the war is expected to be over very shortly, some of the military leadership predicts there will be considerable issues with Abysian insurgent groups for years to come, but Mr. Sphinx is confident that the whole thing can be dealt with in few months and then our troops can come home.


Tomorrow we will discuss the rules of the law, as one of the Marshmasters stands accused of war crimes, most notably "Wasting of magical gems against single independent commanders". Possibly punishments when found guilty include, among other things, being beaten with pillows, having your toes sucked or having your hands cut off, made into a flail, and then be beaten with it, while torturer next to you keeps constantly asking "Why are you hitting yourself?"

-CBNN, the Dimensionwide Leader in News

[Groundworm]

The great nation of Shinuyama is pleased to announce that we will fashion Dwarven Hammers for any nation that requires one in exchange for nature gems.

[Pjoo]

We are having little magical difficulties. Tuning off the channel is suggested, as listening to it at the current time might result in your head exploding, and probably has already caused irreversible brain damage. Thank you for your understanding.

[durecellrabbit]

I got Saturday and Sunday mixed up, better be more careful.

[Soyweiser]

Also, I'm back. (And need a new keyboard I think. Somehow a little bit of energy drink went into the keyboard and now a lot of keys behave very strange... typing is still possible. But I have no usable tab key). Also, the crystal ball extension on my keyboard has exploded... anybody know anything about that?

I already did my turn last night. And dropped into a coma after that.

Edit: and somebody has the luckiest pretender ever. I should have attacked that one. Especially now that the pretender's support army has moved away. (You know who you are).

[DragonRider]

"May it be known far and wide that on this day, the dawn of Winter in the Third Year of the New Age, Abysia's cathedral of sin at Urd has been reduced to rubble, along with the false idol worshiped there. The infernal spirit Kai'Ckul has been banished to the burning hells from whence it came, and the blood of its hapless worshipers simmers across the countryside.

Let this be a lesson to all would-be apostates of the world: Marignon has eyes in all places, and consorting with diabolical forces will not be tolerated under our righteous and glorious rule."

--Sjohara, Will of the Eternal Flame

[durecellrabbit]

Is anyone making hammers? Also looking for someone who can make shields of gleaming gold.

[Soyweiser]

I'm making hammers. Only my pretender can make them. So I'll still ask 15 egems a pop.

[Groundworm]

I'm also capable of making hammers.

[Pjoo]

Teh Learning Channel

"Let's Learn about water magic with our hydromancers! Lets give one of them a chance to speak!"

"So, umm, as you know, hydromancy in C'tis is pretty new, as it had been previously banned. However, now we have been given blessing by our beloved mr. Sphinx, and are making great leaps forward in the research of Hydromancy.

We had this problem of, well, holding the water gems. Due to their property of producing water all the time, they made the floors wet, or if carried, the clothes. It was infact the reason why the water magic was banned, the mages carrying the gems always looked like they had peed in their pants, and that reduced morale of our forces. But we have now solved this problem. We use buckets.

As you know, anything that can hold over 5 liters of water is a bucket and bucket can also hold other buckets. As buckets are used to hold water, and also other buckets, and water gems are used to hold water, water gems are buckets. Well, ctually, technically if they hold under 5 liters of water, they are cans, but most of them are ancient and have produced far more than that. Anyways, we only use bucket-grade gems, and while not all the synthetic water gems might be buckets, they produce water at constant rate, so eventually they'll mature into buckets.

But, as the water gems are buckets, and buckets are used to hold other buckets, water gems are carried in buckets. This is not everything though! As water gems are buckets, buckets are also water gems. Mathematic formula for that would be:

Water Gems = Buckets <=> Buckets = Water Gems

For those who do not understand the practical usage for such find, let me explain. Our mages can carry buckets full of water gems into battle in compact form, as they can also use the bucket, being a water gems, for their magics after they have used all the gems in the bucket! The testing hasn't begun yet, but our mages think this will give us an edge on the battlefield."

"This find is potentially so revolutionary that Hycromancy will actually be known as Bucketmancy!", another of them adds.

"Thanks to the Hydromancers' Guild for today's episode of Let's Learn! We have truly been enlighetend about the mysteries of bucketmancy!"

There are still some problems with usage of buckets, most notably tapping into water gem inside a bucket while casting acid rain deals serious damage to the bucket. Also, there seems to be a bloodthirsty seal on the loose, attacking anyone holding a teal bucket. But these issues are being taken care off! If you have any questions about today's show, please send a message in a bottle to message box 347 at 33101 Tampere.

Inspired by my talk with Executor about certain "math problem" involving buckets, hidden variables, protecting ma buckets, and other amusing things making probably about as much sense as this Let's Learn!

[Soyweiser]

Here is something I wrote a couple of weeks ago when I invaded the cap of Caelum.

"Finally", Hulvid thought as his troops breached through the great wall surrounding the mountain city. "Start the construction of a gate. The bird-men might not need doors, but we do!" Hulvid shouted at his men, as he cautiously guided the remaining troops into the walled city. It all was eerily silent. Walking through the silent, once magnificent city, he started to remember.

It had all looked so very easy at the start. He could still remember the speeches Borme gave. "The winged bird-men are weak!", Borme, would should at the gathered troops "And the prosperous lands of their mountains are our birthright! Loki will oversee and protect us. With his guidance, no weapon can harm us!". At first he was right, the bird-men put up a valiant fight, but it was useless. Their bloodied and broken bodies littered the fields. And Hulvids and his troops where in high spirits, they would be home before winter! How wrong we where. How naive.

It all changed. The winged troops where replaced by mammoths, accursed mammoths. And the ineffective bows made way for destructive lightning. And easy victory changed into bitter struggle. Even now, after a long siege Hulvid dreams where troubled by the screaming face of Borme. Screaming for Loki's protection as the mammoths crushed him into a bloody pulp. While lightning rained down from the heavens, blowing giants to bits. Eventually the mammoths where defeated, and the lightning stopped. But at a high cost. Of the large initial invasion force only Hulvid remained. All his friends, dead. Not even enough of them left to properly perform the burial rites.

A shout from his scouts brought Hulvid's mind back to the gloomy city. They had found it! The fabled heart. The citadel of the frozen Crystal! It was magnificent. A true testament to the majesty of the Caelum people. The once proud people. Now all gone. During the siege there had always been the presence of the birdmen, flying around their capital. Harrying the attackers. But since this morning, they where all gone. Like they where swallowed by the sky itself. Hulvid didn't like it.

There was much he didn't like. The sudden disappearance of the Caelum people. The new humans already colonizing the fields around the mountain city. Them taking over Ravens Vale, a small town next to the imposing gateless walls of the enormous mountain city. Ravens vale, once the homes of the exiled wingless Caelum people, now the home of lowly humans. Bah! Humans, even vaetti had more uses. And the goblins also tasted a lot better.

He also didn't like the new priest his leaders had send them. While Borme was certainly a raving madman, his replacement was worse. There was just something wrong about the Skratti priest. The way he walked, the way he talked, the way he looked at the human settlers. The way he always seemed way to interested in female humans. To interested.

His troops had just discovered the seat of Caelum power. The fabled ice flower gardens. It was magnificent, almost as great as the iron forest back home. Almost. While walking through the silent but beautiful garden he wondered. Was Jotunheim going the correct way? Why was he given this strange axe to replace his sword. Why did his thoughts dwell more and more on violence? Could the axe... ? No! And why an axe, why not a simple rat tails whip, that would have stopped the Mammoths. Saved his friends. Hulvid doubted the Skrattir or the Gygjas even cared. And even the beauty of the frozen crystal gardens could not remove Hulvids unease.

[Soyweiser]

Damn, Marignon staled. That means I take a bunch of his provs unopposed.

[DragonRider]

Crap. CRAP! The turn ended like a full day before I thought it was going to. That was an IMMENSELY important turn. Like, to the point it might be impossible to recover from. About a third of my army either died without support or is now trapped without being able to meet up with the rest, and my research plan is utterly ruined. I'm so pissed off at myself right now.

[Valerius]

That sucks. :hurt: Losing track of the hosting time, etc., happens to almost everyone at some point but when it happens when the two main powers in the game are fighting it out it's really unfortunate.

[Valerius]

Here is something I wrote a couple of weeks ago when I invaded the cap of Caelum.

...


Soyweiser, thanks for the post. As a spectator I'm enjoying the in-character comments from you and Pjoo. :)

[Groundworm]

Normally, I'm not in favor of rollbacks. However, if this was a particularly important turn in the conflict between the two dominant powers in the game, I'd say we give some serious consideration to the idea. How Jotunheim and Marignon are doing are important to more than just the two of them.

[DragonRider]

I'm certainly not about to demand that everyone else in the game be forced to redo a turn (or two) just because I'm a moron. Not to mention the fact that I now have knowledge of what Jotunheim did that turn and could try to counter it if I were given the chance.

[Soyweiser]

I wouldn't mind that much. It would allow me to fix a few mistakes I made last turn. (And allow me to reaim all my site search spells. I didn't find anything last turn, so I now know this, a rollback would save me those 12 gems. (I would also reaim my remote attack spells with the knowledge of Marignon's forces. And use a lot of gems better that I wasted last turn. Call of the winds.. meh))).

I also attacked a random knight attack and lost quite some forces. So I wouldn't do that again. I also could have forged better last turn. (A counter against his kitted harbinger would come turn earlier).

I think a rollback would only make me stronger. (I doubt I would be as lucky with the remote assassination spells, hitting a mage set to retreat is always a win, and killing a mage with supply items also. Best 10 slaves and 26 research points spend so far).

I'm just being open about all this. But I think I could really profit from the additional knowledge I have now. (Also because my spy network is kinda weak).

[Soyweiser]

I wouldn't mind that much. It would allow me to fix a few mistakes I made last turn. (And allow me to reaim all my site search spells. I didn't find anything last turn, so I now know this, a rollback would save me those 12 gems. (I would also reaim my remote attack spells with the knowledge of Marignon's forces. And use a lot of gems better that I wasted last turn. Call of the winds.. meh))).

I also attacked a random knight attack and lost quite some forces. So I wouldn't do that again. I also could have forged better last turn. (A counter against his kitted harbinger would come turn earlier).

I think a rollback would only make me stronger. (I doubt I would be as lucky with the remote assassination spells, hitting a mage set to retreat is always a win, and killing a mage with supply items also. Best 10 slaves and 26 research points spend so far).

I'm just being open about all this. But I think I could really profit from the additional knowledge I have now. (Also because my spy network is kinda weak).

And while I think that it is kinda frustrating to play two turns again. It would be more fair for DragonRider. (Not that last turn killed him or anything, he still has five times the amount of troops I have). I don't know how the rest thinks about it. Basically I would not oppose a rollback. (It would suck that I lose a nice random on a mage that I got last turn).

[Soyweiser]

Sorry about the double post. I ****ed up there.

[Soyweiser]

Would it be possible to get a 12 hour extension? I don't know If I'm able to make my turn tonight.

[Valerius]

No problem; hosting has been postponed to 15:35 GMT Friday.

[durecellrabbit]

Just to let you know I've been having internet problems recently where my connection to the internet is going down for a few hours at a time. I'm assuming it a router problem and ordered a replacement earlier this week. I don't think this is a more complicated that will cause problems with me completing my turns but if it does this post should let you know what's happened. I've done this turn earlier as well.

[Valerius]

Conveniently, we reached turn 40 and the hosting interval changed to 72 hours. While I don't expect you'll normally need all that time it could be useful if someone is having technical problems like durecellrabbit is currently dealing with.

[Soyweiser]

Dragonrider: nice move on the GoH. Was actually the thing I expected a few turns ago.

Didn't expect the teleporting squad of Grand masters. That kinda sucked. :)

[DragonRider]

I was going to cast Mother Oak first, but apparently it was not to be (actually, if it wasn't for the stale, Shinuyama and I would have attempted to cast it on exactly the same turn and one of us would have been screwed by random chance). So I figured as long as I have the gems I might as well throw up Gift of Health. Even if I lose it later it'll at least get rid of all these diseases you're so fond of.

[DragonRider]

I love how the one turn I didn't move directly at Jotunheim's army was also the only turn in which they didn't move away, for no readily apparent reason. Well, here's to another ten months running in circles accomplishing nothing!

[Soyweiser]

I think you took the prov I was moving through. It was a mistake at my part.

[DragonRider]

Oh, so you were trying to move two west? I actually failed to take the intermediate province in the magic phase (catastrophically so; that's really going to set me back a lot), but I guess I DID take the one next to it that you must have been moving into. I'm pretty sure I had lost it again before the turn was over, but I guess that still blocks the move.

[DragonRider]

Loki,

I remember the day when first you presented yourself to our people. I remember the things you told us; the promises you made us. I remember the beating of my heart and the tears in my eyes; I remember the joy I felt being assured, at last, that our people would have a future in this changing world, and that you would lead us there.

I made an oath that day that I would do anything in my power to make that dream come true. I became your prophet and spread that hope far and wide. I stood before the masses and swore to them that the gradual dwindling of our numbers and slow recession of our magicks would at long last be reversed, and that the whole of the land would be ours again, as it once was. They trusted me, as I trusted you. Like me, they pledged their very lives to your cause; they fought and died in your name.

Today, as we continued our routine raids of Marignon, as you ordered, I spotted in Epernia a group of priests, a score at the most, marching across the plains with hardly a knight to escort them. I was certain that they were powerless, as any priest of a false god must be. My men rushed towards them, wildly brandishing their axes and praising your name, wanting nothing more than to smite down those infidels who would dare preach against you, their God.

I watched those men burn. I watched them writhe in agony; I listened to their screams of pain. And I fell to my knees and wept. I wept at the beauty of it; those flames from the sky, burning so brightly, glowing with a light so pure and true that I knew instantly that it could only have come from God. I wept in sorrow for the lives thrown away for nothing, on this day and all before it; lives wasted in service not to a God, but to a pretender. I wept in shame for the lies I told those soldiers; that their lives and deaths would mean something if only they fought in Loki's name.

My eyes are open now. For too long have our people suffered in the dark and frigid northlands, so far from the warmth and light of God. I shall bring the glory of the Eternal Flame to our home. I shall free our people from your damning lies and give them the long and prosperous future that they deserve. I only hope that when we march into Recenna I have the opportunity to slay you myself for your sins against the Jotun and against God.

--Blacker Than Darkness, Former Prophet of Loki, Emissary of the Eternal Flame



((PS: Who ever said the default mage AI was bad? Mass Enslave Mind for the win!))

[Valerius]

Thanks for the post, DragonRider. Reminded me of a game where I was playing MA Abysia and my main army, that had served me so well, was facing off against Machaka. Heavy losses on both sides but Machaka's King of Banefires was steadily killing off my forces. Then, completely unscripted, a warlock got his fatigue just under 100, took the last couple of blood slaves on the field and cast Infernal Prison. I promised not to say anything bad about the AI for a while after that. ;)

[durecellrabbit]

Hi can I please a 24 hour extension. I've just been discharged from hospital after emergency surgery and will need some rest before I can do my turn properly probably missing the currently deadline.

[Valerius]

Yes, of course, hosting has been delayed 24 hours.

[Soyweiser]

Nice one DragonRider.

Really hope that my prophet counts as killed now. Probably not :).

I'm actually more sad that I lost Hulvid. The protagonist of my last story. But that is still an interesting story. Especially as he disliked the way the Skratti where acting. Getting only 3 grand masters sucks. (Yeah spam magic on the Lamia, not the fire mages raining down flaming molten death).

Well, hitting into such a large group of mages was not expected. :).

(Has anybody already discovered my naming scheme?).

durecell: you all right?

[durecellrabbit]

Yes, of course, hosting has been delayed 24 hours.

Thanks. Got my turn in.


I'm ok. Just got a bunch of medicine to take and to get my dressings changed everyday. Really sleepy as well.

What's up with these priests with militia that keep appearing?

[Duncan_Frost]

Hello again from the former ruler of C'Tis! I'm terribly sorry about staling out on you all, but my laptop self-destructed and I didn't have any internet access for quite a while. Good to see the game is still going strong, and good luck to the poor sucker who had to take over my nation :p

[Soyweiser]

Actually C'Tis is doing rather good at the moment. Research levels have dropped, but armies/land/dom etc is going up.

[DragonRider]

Would it be okay if we extended the turn deadline by 24 hours? I'm not sure if I'll have time to take an early turn today or not, and I'd rather not have to worry about it on Thanksgiving day.

[Valerius]

Sure; hosting has been delayed 24 hours.

[Soyweiser]

Damn! I staled last turn. I totally forgot to send in my turn. (I did do it, just forgot to mail it in).

Could I get a 24 hour extension to see what is still left of my nation? I have little time left today to do my turn.

[Valerius]

That's frustrating, even more so since the turn was ready to be sent. :( And another tough time for a stale, since I assume you and Marignon are still at war.

I will of course postpone hosting. Btw, if anyone thinks they'll need extra time over the holidays please just let me know.

[DragonRider]

I actually spent most of that turn taking back my own territory and moving onto a fortress which I assume would take a couple of turns to siege anyway, so it wasn't the worst turn to miss in the grand scheme of things. You also got a consolation prize (apparently that Skratti was a blood hunter and not a fleeing unit from a previous engagement, and 17 magic resistance isn't as much as I thought it was).

[Soyweiser]

A blood hunter? Nope, that was just a trap A test to see if it would be easy to hellbound heart the guys. (My blood hunters are better defended actually).

Really sucks that my turn failed. Else I would have had more than just 1 of them :D.

And, my relief force for the siege would have arrived in time, and not a turn late... sigh. :D

[Soyweiser]

Apparently I didn't need that relief force after all. (You would have broken the castle next turn).

"Let this day be a lesson for you Sjohara. Denounce the forces of darkness, and those forces will align and destroy you.

Your men will be eaten, your foul dragons banished to the cold abyss, your angels will be crushed when they flee into the night. Not even the queens of air will save you. Your only hope is to bow down, beg for mercy, and pray for a quick death.

To the people of Marignon. You will not be saved by the eternal flame. You will not be saved by the god Sjohara. In fact, YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED! "

(Damn, that combat was very costly in blood slaves. Anybody have some to trade?).

[Pjoo]

CBNN reporting...

The despicable Bakemono have attacked us in full strenght, but they were beaten back by only a couple of Marshmasters and our provincal defences. The Bakemono threat will be over very shortly as the rest of marshmasters will join the fight, and the ugly ghost goblins will be defeated!

On the important news, Priest King Sin was seen outside without his priestly robes. Priest Kings are expected to wear robes, and while there are no sanctions for not doing so, this is totally against the traditions and the scandal will surely be reported in various news outlets for several months.
Also, in Sports news, Marshes' Marshlizards beat Swamp-Sauromancers in Swamp-Hockey, which is the first time in history. Swamp-Sauromancers have traditionally been the masters of this glorious sport, due to much greater capacity of summoning players, but this year Marshlizards had adopted new tactic involving supporting the undead with swarms of firefies and ants. Only 6 players were killed in this year's match, which was a disappointment to many.
There has been allegations of magic gem use among the Sauromancers, but the government says the production is tightly monitored, and none of the gems has been misplaced, which means the Sauromancers are clearly wrong.

[DragonRider]

Damn. I thought I was prepared for a vampire attack (though I didn't expect it would happen until they could meet up with your ground forces), but a lot of stuff went very, very wrong. Let's see how much I can pinpoint, for my own benefit:

-The ring of archers surrounding my mages collapsed due to my overestimating their range, exposing the rear mages to instant death before their protective spells were even up.
-Most of the Holy Pyre mages were scripted to cast it too late, and the ones that weren't were the ones who died in the first round due to the above.
-The Incinerate mages decided to burn vampires instead of Skratti.
-The knights were positioned to block Jotun Woodsmen rather than to participate in the anti-vampire activities (I thought I was already okay on that front). They didn't even get past the "hold" in "hold and attack" before the fight was decided. I should have just had them rush the enemy.
-There was a lot more Bloodletting than I expected. I really wish it was easier to tell whether or not this actually affected anything. Ditto for all the other magic that was cast, really.
-Those Zmey weren't even supposed to be there for the fight. I was just regrouping them there for a turn. I hadn't even scripted them.
-Why are the paths required to cast Claws of Kokytus so low oh god.

I can't help but feel like I could have most likely won that battle if my scripting and positioning had been better.

[Soyweiser]

-The Incinerate mages decided to burn vampires instead of Skratti.

The Skrattir where either positioned out of range. Or had 100% fire immunity. The vamps provided a nice target. Else your mages might have cast stuff that could have damaged me. (control spells, or the astral damage spells).


-There was a lot more Bloodletting than I expected. I really wish it was easier to tell whether or not this actually affected anything. Ditto for all the other magic that was cast, really.

Let me explain my reasoning.

The Rain and Darkness should have stopped your archers. (precision was down the drain due to the rain and the Darkness. Rain also helped to offset the fatigue bonus your fire mages get due to the high magic domain. (I made a mistake here, rain doesn't interfere with archery, storm does)).

Grip of winter was a nice, your troops might get fatigue and frozen spell, while mine are cold immune. This spell also meant, when your mages got above 100 fat. They would never recover. It didn't work as well as I hoped.

Quagmire helped to up the encumbrance on your knights. +2 together with the frozen winter penalty would have helped. the -1 attack and def was also welcome. (Small mistake, the +2 enc on my combat skrattir could have made them get criticals in a long fight).

Your troops had a lot of exp stars, mine didn't. Your royal guard had a def around 21 before the magics. Vamps had 11 attack. After it was 10 vs 10.

The spell Bloodletting does more damage than listed in the description. The 1 dam is actually an open ended roll. So it could more damage, and I was hoping on the 2 hp hits to count as a wound, or on doing enough damage to just kill some troops (Worked on a mage, he died because of the bloodletting spam). This together with the blood rain spell. Would give me a good chance of a rout. And I didn't need to kill your mages to stop the army. I had to kill enough of the troops. Damaging troops also forces morale checks.

Also most of my troops either regenerated, drained life, or had a lot of hp. So I would be harmed less by the bloodlettings.

The rush of strength gave +4 str to all my troops. So the vamps drained 2 more hp and 8 more fatigue on each hit.

And because I took out your escape routes the rout meant that all the troops died.

(I was planning on even more battlefield magic, but I miscalculated in the fatigue department, and some of my mages went a bit offscript. (That is where the claws of kok came from. Which I was very thankful for, as you can imagine. I wasn't that happy with the winter ward on the blood slaves...).

[Soyweiser]

And yes, if your knights had rushed forward you might have won. I was hoping you hadn't changed the orders of the knights yet.

I also hadn't counted on the Zmey's. But I was very lucky with those. They could have really done some damage.

[Pjoo]

Hahaa! Forces of the lizardom inflict another crushing defeat on the evil ghost goblins! I really didn't think I'd last over 2 turns! :D

[Groundworm]

And well done.

I'm surprised and intensely frustrated that my superior forces backed by flaming archers and a SC were obliterated by a (admittedly large) group of skellie spammers and lizard PD.

Twice.

[Pjoo]

Yeah those flaming arrows would be slighly more useful if used versus anything else than swarms of enlargened dragonflies and solo wolves? :D

Howl + few swarms + foul vapors = funfunfun :D

Now if I just had researched serpent's blessing, might've helped a bit... jumping in half way kinda messed up all plans and tactics and strategies and stratagems and tricks and deceptions and flimflams I would've come up with by now... Kinda annoying really, should've really thought about how I could scavenge the situation when I picked up the game instead of just doing something. As you can see, my mobile armies are limited to pretty much only to freespawn and marshmasters, so attacking is pretty nogo.

Looking forward to whacking more of your invasion forces ^^

[Groundworm]

While a number of my flaming arrow volleys were distracted by your wolves and dragonflies, they killed a lot of your lizards, too. I was quite pleased with the flaming arrows. Your battlefield magic was effective... the foul vapors really started to take a toll.

There will be more invasion forces. I've got nothin' if I don't have chaff to spare. But, live and learn. You're not the only one who can come up with a surprise or two. :)

[Pjoo]

While a number of my flaming arrow volleys were distracted by your wolves and dragonflies, they killed a lot of your lizards, too. I was quite pleased with the flaming arrows. Your battlefield magic was effective... the foul vapors really started to take a toll.

There will be more invasion forces. I've got nothin' if I don't have chaff to spare. But, live and learn. You're not the only one who can come up with a surprise or two. :)

Now if only those lizards weren't PD or freespawn... ;)

[Soyweiser]

DragonRider,

I'm a bit confused... why doesn't the prophet you liberated from me have any magic levels? I guessed you GoRed him. But where are his magic levels? And is it now stuck in wherewolf form or not?

[DragonRider]

DragonRider,

I'm a bit confused... why doesn't the prophet you liberated from me have any magic levels? I guessed you GoRed him. But where are his magic levels? And is it now stuck in wherewolf form or not?

Good question! I assumed he would keep his magic levels, but he didn't. I can still make him do his shapeshifting thing, but none of his three forms have any magic.

When I first gained control of him, he was in his full animal form for whatever reason, with stealth and mountain travel. Which means either Enslave Mind permanently strips units of their magic, or the prophet's random path was something other than Water or Blood, meaning the -2 path penalty for the animal form put them all at zero, and Gift of Reason took that to be his base magical aptitude rather than his modified paths. Pretty disappointing, really.

Also disappointing: he was given a new random name upon becoming a commander, and since he's already a prophet, I couldn't rename him. I had wanted to call him Brighter than the Sun out of spite. Oh well!

In unrelated news, Zwago the Zmey's Krazy Kokytos Adventure isn't going too well. He was attacked by five Winter Wolves, which would have been trivial to deal with except their stacked chill aura combined with Grip of Winter maxed his fatigue inside of two rounds. Then they very slowly gnawed off one of his heads before getting bored and wandering off after fifty rounds or however long it has to be for that to happen. I wonder if I'll ever see him again.

[Soyweiser]

Strange. A prophet should at least have H3. So even with the reduction it would be H1.

Also, I think your stealing of my prophet has robbed me of the ability to have one. (Secretly I hope he still spreads my dom :) But my coder mind thinks that would be really strange).

The naming really sucked. I already wondered why he had such a odd name.

[DragonRider]

I really don't like the fact that a single Jotun Skratti, which you can recruit anywhere in huge numbers, with only modest equipment, can kill an (almost) fully-equipped King of Elemental Fire 1v1. Or rather that it WOULD be able to kill a King of Elemental Fire 1v1 if it wasn't shot through the head for 28 damage by the luckiest province defense crossbowman in the history of time.

I also really don't like the fact that Claws of Kokytos has a range of 30. I had missed that little tidbit in my initial look at the spell. Probably due to denial. The hapless barbarians who brought me this information will be remembered fondly. Maybe they'll meet up with Zwago and the four of them will fly out of the depths of Hell together in 2010's feel-good film of the year.

I DO, however, like the fact that like half of my soldiers are gibbering idiots too stupid to move into the province I tell them to, but that they can still completely murder a Skratti that ambushes them while they're scratching their heads and wondering where the hell the fortress is.

[Groundworm]

I personally like the fact that DragonRider's last two posts have caused me quite a bit of laughter. :)

[Soyweiser]

Somehow the shrapnel forum is very hard for me to reach atm. I had a nice reply typed out, with some good tips to help DragonRider with his problems. But my spotty connection ate them.

Let me make just one remark from the larger previous post. Actually I killed your fire king. Twice. Sadly he refused to stay dead. So there is that :D.

At least in your lands there isn't the constant threat of barbarians messing with your plans :D.

[DragonRider]

Oh, that doesn't count. Fire Kings are SUPPOSED to explode like that. The guy has 0 base protection for a reason.

And I already paid my dues, independents-wise. I think I got something like four Knight invasions within seven months a while back.

[Soyweiser]

The main reason I haven't killed Bogus in that one province is just to keep him from respawning.

Just be happy that Skratti wasn't equiped with a blood thorn. :)

(Still having connection issues, what did shrapnel do? Piss off anonymous? :) ).

[Soyweiser]

Connection seems to be fixed.

For anybody wondering where I get my creepy Skrattir names from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immortal_%28band%29 This band seems to go pretty well with the general themes of Jotunheim. Cold icy forests. Darkend frostbitten northlands. Crushing of the Church (Marignon ;) ) Etc. Works nicely. But I'm running out of song titles to name my Skrattir. :)

[DragonRider]

Okay, so the Erinyes are beings who have sworn to slay all practitioners of Blood magic, but when one of them encounters a Skratti surrounded by five blood slaves, what does she do? Go around butchering the innocent virgins one by one until the Skratti kills her. Class act, Megeara, really. Additionally, sometimes they kill death mages without a single path in blood, which I'm pretty sure wasn't in the contract. Let's keep on track here, gals! It's bad enough that there turned out to be a second (semi-)blood nation still in the game; I can't afford to have you crusading against the OTHER two nations on top of it.

Also...

Dammit, Jotunheim! I just finished cleaning the giant blood off of the fields in Cerne. Now I need to start over. Why couldn't you have learned your lesson last time? The dudes who annihilated your last army literally haven't moved from that spot since then.

[Soyweiser]

Dammit, Jotunheim! I just finished cleaning the giant blood off of the fields in Cerne. Now I need to start over. Why couldn't you have learned your lesson last time? The dudes who annihilated your last army literally haven't moved from that spot since then.

Yeah, that was dumb. I need more scouts. Sucks to be me. :D

Nice army btw. It scares the hell out of me.

[DragonRider]

To be honest, after what happened last time, I'm extremely worried that this invasion will turn out to be another fiasco if anything goes even slightly wrong, but there's nothing to do at this point but give it a go. The loss of those five Skratti does embolden me somewhat, though; at the very least it gives me a lot more leeway than I thought I was going to have.

[Soyweiser]

Of course the last time I beat you with a totally different set of mages. Without the gear I just lost.

But most of my army is currently moving against Bandar. He is right next to my lands, you still have some way through your own old provinces before you get tot the castles.

I'll think up a nice strategy to kill you before that :). Or Bandar whipes me before that and it is all moot.

I'm still having fun so that is what counts. :)

[durecellrabbit]

I'm going to be busy with family and Christmas for the next few days. Could we postpone the turn until say the 27th?