Polish Anders AFV

[kevineduguay1]

http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/east_europe/poland/exhibition/mspo_2010/pictures/Anders_Obrum_Bumar_light_tank_tracked_armoured_fig hting_platform_vehicle_Poland_Polish_MSPO_2010_def ense_exhibition_001.jpg

"The Polish Company Obrum presented for the first time during the Defense Exhibition 2010, his new tracked armoured platform the "ANDERS", as a technological demonstrator. The chassis and the turret are designed by Obrum. The final vehicle will be produced by the Polish Defense Company Bumar. A two man turret is mounted to the centre of the chassis, armed with a RUAG 120 mm gun and a remotely weapon station armed with a 12.7 mm machine gun. At the rear of the vehicle, there is a crew compartment with seats for four soldiers. The ANDERS has a total weight of 33,000 kg. The ANDERS is motorized with an MTU engine, which allows the vehicle to run at a maximum speed of 70 km/h."

It looks like Poland has come up with their own version of the Merkava. A little smaller and a lot lighter though.

[kevineduguay1]

http://www.armyrecognition.com/components/ebygallery/MSPO_2010_Defense_Exhibition_Kielce_Poland/up/anders_obrum_bumar_light_tank_tracked_armoured_fig hting_platform_vehicle_poland_polish_mspo_2010_def ense_exhibition_002.jpg

One more shot with a man near the tank to better show its size.

[kevineduguay1]

I found this info at Tanknet in the AFV forum. More pics of this vehicle can be found in the thread....MSPO Polish poland Defence Exhibition 2010. Interesting vehicle.

[PlasmaKrab]

I have heard that Poland was looking for a new tracked IFV to replace their BMPs, and that the CV-90 would be a likely candidate if it could be produced/assembled locally.
There was also apparently interest for the 120mm-gunned light tank variant, which was field-tested in Poland some years ago (http://altair.h2.pl/files/news/2007/10/i-i07-10-76drawsko-cv-pt1.jpg).
No news about the topic this year, but I assume there is some competition between local models and foreign imports.
Anyone has more info on the status of this in the Polish forces?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

These two sites have always been good starting points for me concerning overall makeup of forces and equipment. First has a nasty habit of going back to French text even after you choose the English version, so you might need to use your systems translator.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/poland_polish_army_land_ground_forces_uk/poland_polish_army_land_ground_forces_military_equ ipment_armoured_vehicle_intelligence_information_d .html

And the following broken down by type i.e. Tanks, Helicopters and even Small Arms etc. it is further broken down by country flag within the group category type. I have found this site to be very accurate as compared against my other sources though maybe not always updated to reflect latest mods to them at times.
http://military-today.com/
Hope this helps!?!

Regards,
Pat

[Pibwl]

Anyone has more info on the status of this in the Polish forces?

There are no light tanks with 120 mm gun ordered by the Polish forces and I bet there will be none for next 5 years at least. Main reason is of course lack of money, and there are many other prorities. There were plans indeed to manufacture Swedish CV-90 variant in cooperation with HSW or Bumar (I don't remember which). Anders is only a technology demonstrator as for now, and I doubt if its manufacturer finds funds to complete its development.

Regards
Michal Derela

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

This very capable system is indeed "DIW" due to economic reasons vice a lack of interest. The ANDERS would have represented a major step forward for Polands armed forces. It was meant to possibly replace the BWP-2000 also an indigenous IFV but cancelled itself. Don't know why I didn't post the ANDERS specific info last Sept. vice just the site, but here you go.
http://www.military-today.com/apc/anders_ifv.htm
http://www.military-today.com/tanks/anders.htm
http://www.military-today.com/apc/bwp_2000.htm
Pics:
11078 11079 11080

NOTE: Both systems were intended to replace the current Russian BMP-1 varients and others.

Regards,
Pat

[Pibwl]

I didn't even know about IFV version - I'll have to wait until next MSPO military industry fair in September to touch it ;) Lately I've made some photos of 120mm version there, but there was awful light.

I believe, that Anders IFV should replace BWP-2000 in the Polish oob (#442) - BWP-2000 definitely has no future. Even at the moment of its debut, it was just APC with a turret - too high and lightly armoured (I've touched it as well) ;).

[DRG]

OK, it makes sense to remove the BWP-2000 but why replace it with another dead project ?


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

See Post #7, please!! But "some" probably need a little more and you shall have it. The ANDERS was just "unveiled" again to draw in international buyers last Sept. at the Military Exhibition MSPO 2010 in Kielce, Poland. The ROSAMAK (PATRIA AMV) has replaced the ANDERS in the APC/IFV role. Poland currently operates about 110 ROSAMAKS with about another 650 in production. It is still a dead program for the Polish Army. I believe the ROSAMAK is being built in Poland under licence.
Yes delete the BWP-2000. No don't add the ANDERS! And can I take the BWP-2000 off my list or leave it on as a reminder? Started looking after Post #7.
Ref A, please see PG. 2 Para 5, though the link should open on PG. 2 will show ANDERS in picture to the right. Ref B, Note equipment list at bottom.
http://www.targikielce.pl/index.html?k=mspo_en&s=ogolne
http://www.armyrecognition.com/poland_polish_army_land_ground_forces_uk/poland_polish_army_land_ground_forces_military_equ ipment_armoured_vehicle_intelligence_information_d .html

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

I renationalized the BWP-2000 in the OOB yesterday.

Don

[Pibwl]

Anders is not dead, it's still developing. 120mm variant was presented to public last year, I believe that IFV will be presented this year. As for now it's technology demonstrator, but IFV has a chance to be developed and ordered, since the Army will need some tracked IFVs.

I'm not a big fan of adding future "what if" equipment, but I've noticed a lot of future vehicles in the game anyway and Anders IFV will be quite probable. It can use a slot of BWP-2000, with only minor tweaks. I'm not insisting, though.

Btw, Rosomak (Wolverine) is partly built in Poland.

Regards
Michal Derela

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Many of us are trying to clean up the countries in the game as we find issues. The slots are very tight right now. I have personally and openly stated it's my mission to do what I can to accomplish this. I speak for myself here but, it is a reflection of what others have done as well in different areas. Just look at the Patch Post thread between the three posts I had ~30 units up for deletion covering developmental units such as the COMANCHE helo, units designated to be recieved by countries such as Turkey with the AH-1Z. So the argument doesn't wash at least not with me. I can now go back and say
DELETE MEADS (Italy), EFV (USMC) and Su-47 BERKUT (Russia), due funding cut off after developmental stage by U.S. and Germany, Program cancellation and Developmental prototype/Demonstrator only (Sounds familiar doesn't it? Much like the topic at hand.) I'm willing to bet for every 1 deletion submitted I had at least 2 or 3 Additions in new equipment and modifications to existing ones that in some cases involved adding more units. Also it has to be taken into account many OOB's have been over looked and are missing units i.e. I came across an article or two concerning the Polish PT-91 TWARDY and Malaysia's PT-91M PENDEKAR. This lead to a MODs on 4 tanks, 1 name CHANGE, ADD 2 BN APC types, DELETE 1 APC type never recieved, ADD 6 APC types in service since 2003 and finally CHANGE 2 APC names. Two articles on a tanks armor (Submitted 4 total.) and need to fix it in the game, went from 2 issues to a total of 16 all requiring verification to my standards and posting of those refs. I spent almost 2 days just on this. So the choice here is simple do you want units that might or might not get off the shelf and be fielded, or do you clear out these units as best as you can to make room for what's missed and either is fielded or definitely will be (My arrangement with the "Boss" is within 2 yrs.) based on good solid research and proven references? You can't go to far out as things change the best example of this is the F-35 delayed time and time again, I posted an article in the Jet/Plane thread a couple of weeks back where the Program Manager has stated that testing has been moved thur 2016 and might not be operational until 2018. It could possibly be totaling deleted from the game if delayed just a couple of more times due to operational or funding issues. It's again my opinion (And as I've said before "Opinions are like... never mind but we all have one!?!) just can't afford the maybes, updating existing units etc will be challenging enough trust me. One final example, Thailand as posted is to buy 200 Medium tanks to replace their M-41 tanks I think it was (Posted recently in the MBT thread.), I come across some legitimate newspaper articles saying they've decided to buy the OPLOT from Ukraine over the S. Korean K-1, is this enough to get it in the game? No! Why, for me anyway let me see it off a major defence related news/ professional website JANES (IMP how's the fund raising going for my subscription?), DEFPRO, DID and others and give me the dates for production, delivery and fielding. That's my minimum requirement. Nothing good comes easy it requires perseverance, a strong will and due diligence. This is in small part a microcosm of what others have done long before I came along. Thank you for your time, now I'm at least ready for the 2011/2012 campaign, PP's away!
I think maybe everyone has :yield: after beating this :deadhorse: on my bully pulpit!!

The bottom line help us find these issues and be able to support it.

"Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid... Definition of a Hero by Raymond Chandler

11164 11165


Good Night!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Imp]

(IMP how's the fund raising going for my subscription?
lol sorry to say Pat in the current economic climate looks like this project will never reach fruition either

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Cut Backs! Cut Backs! Everyone seems to be doing it!! Well John, I guess we'll just have to keep it going as is, it's ashamed though because one JANE's is worth two or three of some others.
We always felt they had their own "spy network" because the info was that accurate.

Regards,
Pat