newbie question: trample ability

[Groundworm]

So I understand how trampling works in its purest form. The elephant stomps the infantry. And the cavalry. And the troglodyte. Got it.

But what about magically enhanced units? My specific questions are:

1) how does high defense stop trampling, if at all? if I have a unit with 20+ defense going up against one trampler, does his defense get whittled down with each trample?
2) do trampling units get a number of trample attempts proportional to its AP?
3) how does trample work with ethereal units? mistform? luck?
4) does protection negate damage taken from trample?

These questions assume a thug or SC that is significantly smaller than the trampler.

Thanks in advance,
Groundworm

[WingedDog]

1) Yes, defence skill decreases with each trample.
2) Yes.
3) Etherial form, mistform and luck make unit more difficult to squish. Mistform works especially great against trample.
4) Trample is armor piercing attack.

[Soyweiser]

More questions:
- Doe awe help?
- Just how much damage does trample do? Does it scale with size difference?

[Foodstamp]

It does not scale with size difference. The damage is dependent on the AP points of the trampling unit. I can't remember if awe stops the attack.

[WingedDog]

Awe stops the attack. That's why units with animal awe are considered to be one of the best early counters to elephants.
Manual says trampling unit makes 8+2*size damage.

[Kref]

Trample (in case if trampler is larger then 3) may be well countered by a size 1 smaller unit with some hitpoints ang good weapon. Troglodites are killed easily by minotuaurs, because two handed axe + minotaurs strength makes much more damage then trampling with size 4 against size 3.

[Soyweiser]

Trample (in case if trampler is larger then 3) may be well countered by a size 1 smaller unit with some hitpoints ang good weapon. Troglodites are killed easily by minotuaurs, because two handed axe + minotaurs strength makes much more damage then trampling with size 4 against size 3.

According to the manual, trample damage doesn't change if the being trampled is larger. Size 4 does 16 AP damage against any unit trampled. (apart from that, yeah your tactic would probably work, but I would still be careful with it. Don't go countering mammoths with Jotun woodsmen).

Edit: looking into it, I think using mino vs troglo isn't that smart. The mino has 25 hp, and prot 4. So 2 trample attacks kill them (does around 30 damage). Sure 2 minos hitting back will hit for around 2x 16+ battle axe damage (don't know that think something like 7). Which isn't always enough to kill the troglodyte with 37 hp prot 9. And this depends on hitting first. A mino costs 40, a trog 50. In a straight up fight, I think a equal cost amount of trogs would win.

Also, a mino has attack 8, and a trog def 9. So that gives around 50% chance of hitting. All in all, not that good odds.

(all information based on the wiki).

[Kref]

Well, I think that Jotun woodsmen may be usefull against mammoth, but it should be tested because mammoth are size two larger.
Minotaurs can defeat a slightly larger number of troglodytes with a small number of casualities, I was making two times.

[Soyweiser]

Well, I think that Jotun woodsmen may be usefull against mammoth, but it should be tested because mammoth are size two larger.

I did. Repeatedly. In the Bootcamp mp game. Short answer. Don't try to attack the mammoths if you do not have a large numerical superiority. A regen bless doesn't really help.

[Joelz]

Does anyone happen to know if the trampled unit's weapon lenght affects trampling effectiveness?

[WingedDog]

Does anyone happen to know if the trampled unit's weapon lenght affects trampling effectiveness?

It doesn't.

[Jarkko]

Edit: looking into it, I think using mino vs troglo isn't that smart. The mino has 25 hp, and prot 4. So 2 trample attacks kill them (does around 30 damage). Sure 2 minos hitting back will hit for around 2x 16+ battle axe damage (don't know that think something like 7). Which isn't always enough to kill the troglodyte with 37 hp prot 9. And this depends on hitting first. A mino costs 40, a trog 50. In a straight up fight, I think a equal cost amount of trogs would win.

Also, a mino has attack 8, and a trog def 9. So that gives around 50% chance of hitting. All in all, not that good odds.

Minotaurs are berserkers, troglodytes not. So if the troglodyte tramples the minotaur once, the minotaur gets very very angry (gaining amongst other things +4 to attack and strength, so they will hit the troglodytes easily *and* deal some serious pain). In an equally-valuable-regiments -situation the troglodytes will most likely (despite their high morale) take enough damage to break before all minotaurs are dead (in fact I believe a minotaur regiment should be able to whack even a somewhat larger trogldoyte regiment usually), and at the end of the day it is those who stay on the field who win the battle.

[Meursy]

This is purely anecdotal and not tested (I will test when I have slightly more time myself), but don't size 4 units have significantly more trouble trampling size 3 units over size 2 ones? WingedDog mentioned the manual factors total unit size in damage calculations, but is it possible it's size difference that determines the damage?

Again, I've just noticed in my games and read in some AAR reports that size 3's don't die so quickly against chariots and such. Of course that could be accounted for by other stats of the units in question.

So who's gonna save me some testing time? :)

[Foodstamp]

I will :). The reason it seems that way is because more size 2s occupy a square than size 3s, so more units take damage per "step" of the trampler. Also, size 3s on average have more HP than size 2s, making them last a little longer.

[Meursy]

Ah right, so tramplers hit all units in a square on each 'step'. Missed that one. Thanks for the answer!

[fantasma]

and many size 3 units are mounted, having higher defense.