No Diplo EA Game - No Wankers Allowed - Game Over, Baalz/Abysia Wins

[Executor]

This is an EA, no diplomacy game. Game settings are open to discussion, however graphs will remain off.
Everyone is welcome, veterans are preferred.

Please do not join this game if you're a tosser and plan to quit after a first lost battle.

-> Please honor the warrior spirit of this game. No turning AI after a few defeats please. Try to fight as best you can for as long as you can. If RL prevents you from playing please contact the admin to find a sub.

Also, please do not join this game if you plan to sit quietly in your corner and do... nothing what so ever, and than ***** about how somebody is stealing the win.

Game Settings (Edit - Added Title)

EA Game
Map: Alexander
Hosting Pace: Interval will be changed as per 3 requests
Mods: CBM1.6, EDM
Renaming: ON
Research: standard
Graphs: OFF
HoF: 15
Indies: standard
Vic. conditions: Capture 12 capitals and hold them for three consecutive turns.
Players 18 (Edit - Was >19)


Game Rules (Edit - Added Title)

Disallowed exploits: no cheap tricks like Bogus orders and overfilling enemies lab.

There will be zero tolerance for players who break the no diplo rule or reveal their nation in any way.

Diplomacy or any form of communication is not allowed and is considered cheating.
-> Please refrain from sending any in-game messages. Also, don't post here anything that can reveal information regarding you or other nations. No diplomacy or communications of any kind is allowed between players.
If you lose your identity is revealed. This is part of the fun in the game, guessing and 2nd guessing who is who until ppl start falling. If you do lose, please also refrain from posting anything with information on the game.

Calahan has graciously offered to admin the game so please direct any delay requests to him.

For a full set of player rules, please refer to this thread. (not reproduced in this OP to avoid clutter) (Edit - Added info)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=763552&postcount=145 (Edit - Added link)


Pretenders should be given nations name!
This is to prevent unintentional disclosure of player ID.
i.e. If you play Agartha you call your pretender Agartha. That's it, no games please.

Re. nation assignment. PM your nation selections to Calahan, this isn't a RANDOM nation game so first picks apply, it might be preferable to send 2-3 first choices as your first pick might already be chosen.

Please start designing your pretender once you select your nation.

@ All - Please DO NOT PASSWORD PROTECT your pretenders, as it makes it very difficult to sub your nation out should you go AWOL for any reason.

Banned spells: Burden of Time, Arcane Nexus, Astral Corruption, Forge of the Ancients (Edit - Wrote acronyms in full to avoid any possible confusion)

MAP FILE > http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10615&d=1289729763

List of Players (Alphabetical Order)

1. Aethyr - played Ermor, killed turn 42
2. Baalz
3. Drog the Destroyer - played Ulm, killed turn 59
4. Executor - played Mictlan, killed turn 36
5. Fantomen
6. Ghoul31 - played Niefelheim, went AI turn 71
7. GrudgeBringer - played Sauromatia, killed turn 45
8. Happyfungi
9. Herode - played Arco, killed turn 35
10. Hylobius - played C'tis, killed turn 39
11. Isokron
12. Marmaduke - played Atlantis, killed turn 55
13. Ossa - played R'lyeh, booted on turn 78 for breaking the banned spells rule and casting Arcane Nexus
14. Ragnoff
15. Rotarr - played Helheim, killed turn 59
16. Saros
17. Zultor
18. ???


List of Nations (Alphabetical Order) (Mainly for the benefit of readers). (Edit - Added)

<strike>indicates eliminated nations</strike>

1. Abysia
2. <strike>Arco</strike>
3. <strike>Atlantis</strike>
4. <strike>C'tis</strike>
5. <strike>Ermor</strike>
6. Fomoria
7. <strike>Helheim</strike>
8. Hinnom
9. Kailasa
10. <strike>Mictlan</strike>
11. Niefelheim
12. Pangaea
13. R'lyeh
14. <strike>Sauromatia</strike>
15. T'ien Ch'i
16. Tir na n'Og
17. Ulm
18. <strike>Yomi</strike>


(Edit) indicates changes made from the original OP of the game.

[Saros]

Ill sign up for this, PM sent. Fairly standard settings are good for me, I'd Suggest CBM and EDM for mods just to keep things a bit more balanced.
Are you sure about no renaming? It can save a lot of hassle with mage micro.

[Executor]

Ill sign up for this, PM sent. Fairly standard settings are good for me, I'd Suggest CBM and EDM for mods just to keep things a bit more balanced.
Are you sure about no renaming? It can save a lot of hassle with mage micro.

I agree, I have no problem with renaming, but it's to protect players from themselves.
If everyone is willing not to be stupid and not name their pretender/commanders as to reveal their identity renaming will be ON.

Welcome aboard.

[ghoul31]

i'll join

[GrudgeBringer]

I'm in

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, I HATE micro management (it just goes with the game) and if you want to rename a scout to say 'Scout 1' and 'Scout 2', I would say GREAT.

However, some of us have pet names for certain things and we use them in most every game. All it would take would be to see 1 of these names in a battle or anything and the idenity would be up.

I know for certain some of the names people use for Commanders etc to make it easier and I also have mine.

Just my opinion

[Hylobius]

I'd like in please.

[Saros]

Well as long as everyone just stops and thinks for a second it should be fine.

[PriestyMan]

i'll join

Also, please do not join this game if you plan to sit quietly in your corner and do... nothing what so ever, and than ***** about how somebody is stealing the win.




lol wut?

past experience maybe this is a bad idea ghoul

[GrudgeBringer]

I agree about the banned spells myself but it isn't a deal breaker.

[ghoul31]

i'll join

Also, please do not join this game if you plan to sit quietly in your corner and do... nothing what so ever, and than ***** about how somebody is stealing the win.




lol wut?

past experience maybe this is a bad idea ghoul

I've expanded early in plenty of games. But I didn't ask you for your opinion anyway.

[zultor]

Count me in

[TheConway]

i'll join

Also, please do not join this game if you plan to sit quietly in your corner and do... nothing what so ever, and than ***** about how somebody is stealing the win.




lol wut?

past experience maybe this is a bad idea ghoul

I've expanded early in plenty of games. But I didn't ask you for your opinion anyway.

I smell a reading comprehension fail.

[Calahan]

Ok, I've started getting your PM's with your nation choices. I'll be replying to you all shortly to let you know which nation you are playing.

Can I please ask that everyone sends in 3 choices from here on, as that will speed things up tremendously in the long run. So for example, if you can list your choices as...

1. Ashdod
2. Pythium
3. Shinuyama

that'd be great, as everything is nice and clear that way :)

You can of course send me a bigger list if you wish, as the longer the list, the more chance you'll have of getting a nation you want (since that will limit the chances of you losing a nation during communication delays)


Also please note that you are not fully signed-up for this game until you send me a PM saying which nations you wish to play. Simply posting in this thread with "I'd like to play" doesn't get you a nation. You can of course reserve a spot by posting such a message, but realise this is NOT RANDOM NATIONS, so you have to contact me with your nation requests, not the other way around. (and of course the longer you wait, the less choice of nations you will have)


Edit - Just a quick note to say I'd always recommend that renaming is off in anonymous games. I've played in quite a few now, and I can say for certain that experienced players get a huge advantage when renaming is on (like they don't get enough of an advantage anyway), as it allows them to pick up big clues regarding other players ID's due to their naming habits. If you want to keep to the spirit of anonymous games, then I can't see how renaming can be allowed (as players are their own worst enemies in keeping their ID's secret, regardless of any promises made regarding renaming).

[Executor]

Please do not spam the thread and leave what ever arguments you have for other threads if you're not singed up and playing here.

The game name states the obvious - No Wankers Allowed, so if you're a wanker please don't join. Thanks.

PM you nation choices to Calahan.

[Ragnoff]

I'm In, sending nation choices.

[rotarr]

Non wanker signing up. Nation selected.

[Herode]

Some free spot left ? I'm in !

[Herode]

And here are my suggestions for the settings :

- EDM
- Research difficult
- Indies 8 - 9
- magic sites > standard settings
- HoF 25
- renaming off

Also, I would favor no banned spells but... bah ^^

[Executor]

HoF 25, well maybe in Dominions 4, here we only have 15 spot for the HoF ;)

Okey, so far we have CBM, EDM, no banned spells, renaming off, research difficult and indies 8-9.
Speak up now, don't complain about the settings later.

Keep in mind what setting your nation favors, some nations relay more on early battle magic than the rest, and some can't expand easily as other against indeis 8-9.

[Hylobius]

I'd prefer CBM, EDM, renaming off, and default settings for research, indies and magic sites. If we are going to stray too far from defaults I may want to reconsider my nation choice.

[Marmaduke]

I'd like to join, PM sent.

[rotarr]

HoF 25, well maybe in Dominions 4, here we only have 15 spot for the HoF ;)

Okey, so far we have CBM, EDM, no banned spells, renaming off, research difficult and indies 8-9.
Speak up now, don't complain about the settings later.

Keep in mind what setting your nation favors, some nations relay more on early battle magic than the rest, and some can't expand easily as other against indeis 8-9.

I personally would like a more default indie strength. Agreed with the rest of the above settings, although for research I have no preference.

[Ragnoff]

I too would prefer standard settings, not quite experienced enough to be able to predict how too many non standard settings should affect my and others nations.

[Executor]

Marmaduke? Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine... Welcome aboard

K than, and we back to regular settings...

[Fantomen]

I'd like to play. Sending PM.

[Kobal2]

Sounds fun. I'm in. I'll send Calahan a sorted nation list soon.

Any game settings are fine by me (low research, high research, indeps 5 or 25, whatever, adapt and overcome) although I think renaming should definitely be left in - it really doesn't do much for diplomacy or communication, and it helps a ton with the micro of some nations who have tons of random magic picks.

[Fantomen]

I vote for standard settings. Renaming on.

[GrudgeBringer]

Sigh...

I can agree to a slightly boosted Indie strength, a little gambling on taking provinces makes you think twice on which one you tackle.

I like the idea of hard research (make it a BIG decision on what you research and when)

I think you guys are giving a HUGE advantage to the vets and I am one that will be scutinizing EVERY name you use.

Of course a 15 Hof.

Rest regular as far as I am concerned.

Executor more or less listed the outline of what he wanted and it is his game....whatever he decides I will support.

[Fantomen]

I think you guys are giving a HUGE advantage to the vets and I am one that will be scutinizing EVERY name you use.


I can see you pondering for hours trying to remember which player it was that always names the e3 f2 mages "e3f2" :D

Come on Grudge, it's not going to make any difference whatsoever.

[GrudgeBringer]

I agree....as far as most players are concerned. Especially those that have played THIS type of game before. I have to admit...I REALLY like to have scout1 scout2 etc. I realy don't care, I just want to make sure if someone messes up...they are next to me!!

The more I think about it, it really was a nightmare the last one we played without renaming...

I withdraw my objection.

[Saros]

Yeah putting research and indies that high will seriously advantage nations which are already able to rush early so I would say have one or the other not both.

[Herode]

About map : obviously, the decision will heavily depend on how many water nations we have. Since only Calahan knows it, I guess Calahan will have to make the decision by itself. The only elements we, players, could discuss here is the ratio provinces/player we wish. As far as I am concerned : around 20 looks fine since it gives a chance to non rusher nations. As a general rule, I don't care bigger maps, I don't like so much smaller maps.

Also, about rushes : if we want to limit them, we could forbid to attack a province already owned by another player before, let's say t15 ? Could leave a chance to Marverni or Kailasa when they will start the game between Lanka and Niefelheim :p

[Drog the Destroyer]

I would like to join, if there is a spot left. My preferences are CBM + EDM, and standard settings for indies and research.

PM to Calahan with nation preferences submited.

[Calahan]

About map : obviously, the decision will heavily depend on how many water nations we have. Since only Calahan knows it, I guess Calahan will have to make the decision by itself. The only elements we, players, could discuss here is the ratio provinces/player we wish. As far as I am concerned : around 20 looks fine since it gives a chance to non rusher nations. As a general rule, I don't care bigger maps, I don't like so much smaller maps.
Re: - Map decision.

Not sure inflicting my map choice on you all is the best solution ;) I can if you all wish, since I never run to a committee when a decision needs to be made. ("oh no a decision, if I make it myself, I might get blamed if it's wrong :eek: Run away run away").

My current thoughts for the map decision were that once Executor closes sign-ups, I'll reveal how many nations are in the game (and the land/water split) and then leave it up to you guys to decide the map. The only info that needs to remain secret is the exact player-nation ID's, as the number of players will likely already be known, and the land-water split won't be secret once the game starts anyway. So little point trying to preserve that secret.

Although if you guys decide the map, I would remind you all to use your heads regarding anything you post. Since things like...

"There are not many water province on that map, which I think is unfair to me, as it means I won't have as much room to expand as the land nations." :doh::doh::doh:

... are going to cause me a headache as admin :confused: So for those new to anonymous games, please remember to always 'think before you post' anything.

[Executor]

So everybody pretty much seems to agree on standard settings.
As for map, yeah that will have to wait until we have a full list of players, and depending on that a map will be chosen.

I will probably wait at least a day or two more to try and get as many players as possible.

As for rushers, I seriously doubt having a global NAP for the first 15 turns is a good idea. This is a no diplo game, so the chances of getting double teamed are slim, the score graphs are OFF, so a rush nation will have to think before blindly rushing in, and finally that too pretty much depends of the map, I see a lot of new players here so if you guys are worried about rushers we can add a little bigger player/province ration, about 15 is standard so 20 should give everyone some breathing room, although I myself prefer crowded places with lots and lots of wars. :)

[Drog the Destroyer]

I don't like the idea of a global NAP either. Around 15 provinces per player sounds good to, 20 is a bit much.

[Marmaduke]

I enjoy a challenge so my vote goes to difficult research and indies (7 perhaps for a compromise, but I would be ok with 9).

[GrudgeBringer]

I agree, I know this has a lot of newer players but it wWAS advertised as an experienced player game.

How about a comprimise....Hard research and and indies around 7. The rest could be normal with renaming if everyone wants it.

Lets don't make it a easy game and lets don't make it a killer.

Somewhere in the middle should be good with most everyone...lets stretch the comfort zone.:eek:

[Executor]

Renaming is allowed since everyone seems ok with it, however be careful, if you are revealed you Will be kicked out, limit the renaming just for micro, no games please.

GB> I hope you won't be renaming your scouts.

As for settings, I still count we have far more votes for normal settings, so for now we'll stick with normal settings

However I think one thing is for certain, it's a very bad idea to have high indies and a lot of provinces per player, that just gives a huge advantage for some nation.
So if we go for more provs/players I'll keep regular indies and if we go for standard (aroundish 15 per nation) I'll consider higher indie strength depending on YOUR preferences.

[GrudgeBringer]

Well, I wouldn't do that after saying I would do it...I would hope someone ELSE would do it. The old 'Triple reverse double psychology trick'.

WOW...Idea, what if I name all my scouts Executor, that will fool them:p

Seriously though, lets not anyone get the idea of making you look like someone else with renaming, even by accident. Lets all think and rethink what the names MAY mean to someone else.

Ok, I have lobbied all I will. Your game, your settings (I have come up with some pretty strange settings in my games and didn't want a bunch of chatter), Pick the map and let the azzz whoopin begin!!

[Marmaduke]

I would like to know what are the civilizations in game before having to send my pretender, would it be possible to announce them first? This way, we could better design our pretenders and scales.

[Calahan]

I would like to know what are the civilizations in game before having to send my pretender, would it be possible to announce them first? This way, we could better design our pretenders and scales.
Tough call that. On the one hand, I know if I was playing, I'd prefer to keep the nations in the game secret as an extra design challenge. (as knowing pre-game what other nations are in the game will be a big help to some nations during design)

But on the other hand from experience I know that because this game is on the llamaserver, those submitting their pretenders near the end can gain an advantage by seeing which other Pretenders have been submitted before them. Meaning whoever submits last will know all the other nations :)

I'll see what Executor has to say (since it is his game) but right now I'm thinking that once sign-ups close, I'll post the full list of nations. Unless someone has a sensible suggestion of how to keep the info hidden on a llamaserver game (easy enough of course if it was private hosting like PashaDawg does, for those fortunate enough to have played in his games)

[Kobal2]

Unless someone has a sensible suggestion of how to keep the info hidden on a llamaserver game (easy enough of course if it was private hosting like PashaDawg does, for those fortunate enough to have played in his games)

It'd be a bit work-intensive for you, but you could ask everyone to send their pretender design picks and password by PM, create the .2h files on your side and register them all at once. If I'm not mistaken, the game doesn't check or use the pretender file in /newlords once the game has started, the host sends a new one along with each .trn file.

[Calahan]

Unless someone has a sensible suggestion of how to keep the info hidden on a llamaserver game (easy enough of course if it was private hosting like PashaDawg does, for those fortunate enough to have played in his games)

It'd be a bit work-intensive for you, but you could ask everyone to send their pretender design picks and password by PM, create the .2h files on your side and register them all at once. If I'm not mistaken, the game doesn't check or use the pretender file in /newlords once the game has started, the host sends a new one along with each .trn file.
I did think of that, and while I probably wouldn't mind everyone sending their designs to me, and then I send them to the llamaserver, a potential problem arrises when I have to change every email address to the correct player. As the llamaserver automatically sends the turns to the email address it recieved the pretender from. ie. They'd all come to me.

The problem then is that if I make one mistake with the nation-email matchups, the wrong player gets the wrong turn file, and those secret ID's start to get busted. I can't say I'm one for making mistakes though, as I'd never survive a day in my RL work if I did. But there is a potential mistake there to be made, which means it is a possibility. So if you all think doing that would help enhance the game a lot, then ok. But doing it only keeps info secret that immediately becomes known once the game starts.

Now if the game and the llamaserver didn't automatically tell you which other nations were in the game from the in-game Pretedner screen/web status page, then it'd surely be awesome keeping nations secret until you found them in-game :) But otherwise, I'm not sure the gain vs potential loss ratio is worth the hassle. (loss being a complete re-start and nation re-roll if I get an email address wrong)


Edit -
Just realised getting the email address wrong wouldn't actually reveal ID's, since if a player got the wrong turn file, then he/Fantomen (:)) still wouldn't know which player the turn file should have gone to. But it would still give design / Pretender / start location info away etc, and that in itself is bad enough.

[Executor]

That's a tough call, ok, so far we have 13 nations, I recon some of them are water too so knowing the nations could perhaps have some impact on players pretender design, now as Calahan stated you Could simply wait and submit the pretender last as to help to pretender build. So I guess that's one reason to announce the nation list.

Now, I recon if we get a few more players knowing the full nation list should have little difference on the pretender design, however I think it's been a while since someone signed up so I'm not sure if there's a point in waiting much longer.

And finally, sending pretenders to Calahan could work but it might be a hassle for him, sending individual turns to Llamaserver, waiting for a conformation, getting the email addresses, changing them back to us, and watching that he doesn't screw up in the proses.

In any case, we still can't decide on that until we get a full player list and I create the game and give Calahan the admin code, or he crates it, either way, to make that decision.
There was something else I wanted to say too but I just can't remember what...:(

[Kobal2]

Edit -
Just realised getting the email address wrong wouldn't actually reveal ID's, since if a player got the wrong turn file, then he/Fantomen (:)) still wouldn't know which player the turn file should have gone to. But it would still give design / Pretender / start location info away etc, and that in itself is bad enough.

Wouldn't even give that away, since the wrong guy wouldn't have the right password to open the turn file. Unless there are ways to hack into the file itself or read its contents outside the game, but that would be a massive jerk thing to do.

I'm not sure the ephemeral secrecy is worth that much troubling yourself over myself, or that people would even pick their own gods based on nations they might never encounter in-game but hey. If you want to, you can do it.

[GrudgeBringer]

There IS one more way to do it, and since I am more than likely the most computer challenged it is a way that it shouldn't be that hard on Calahan but harder on the players.

First, if one of us REALLY wants THAT much of an advantage, then there are going to be a number of things they can do in a game like this to give themselves little advantages. I think there has to be some measure of trust that we are all adults and have just a smidgen of honor.

When we get all the people in that are going to play.... designate a time (I know getting 14 or 15 people at one time to do this will be rough) and within THAT time (whether it is an hour or just 15 minutes (I mean we SHOULD have already got an idea of what we want to do anyway)we all send them in at that time.

IF we can do that, problem solved on that issue (ahhh, I think):rolleyes:

[Calahan]

Edit -
Just realised getting the email address wrong wouldn't actually reveal ID's, since if a player got the wrong turn file, then he/Fantomen (:)) still wouldn't know which player the turn file should have gone to. But it would still give design / Pretender / start location info away etc, and that in itself is bad enough.

Wouldn't even give that away, since the wrong guy wouldn't have the right password to open the turn file.
The admin should ask everyone NOT to password protect their Pretenders, as that makes it very tricky to sub-out their nation should the player go AWOL. The llamaserver is PBEM rather than direct connect, so you can't access any other players turn files (hence no need for password).

Hey wait, I'm the admin :doh:


@ All - Please DO NOT PASSWORD PROTECT your pretenders, as it makes it very difficult to sub your nation out should you go AWOL for any reason.

@ Executor - can you put that somewhere in the OP. Cheers.

[Ossa]

I'd like to join the game if still possible.

[Baalz]

I'll play.

[Calahan]

While I'm here, I way as well take this oppotunity to try and poach a few players :)......


I might be starting up a new game for Newbie players soon. And since there are so many new players in this game, some of you might be interested in a specific newbie game. So please post in the linked thread if you are interested,

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=232

[Executor]

Welcome Ossa, Baalz, some familiar faces.
ALL, I'll give it another 24 hours and than I'll close the sign ups.

[Isokron]

I will join.

[Happyfungi]

Hi, I am playing as well.

[ghoul31]

I'll play.

Just don't quit the game the instant you get attacked, like your last 4 games

[Aethyr]

I'll play.

[Fantomen]

I'll play.

Just don't quit the game the instant you get attacked, like your last 4 games

It is unwise to throw stones in a greenhouse.

[Executor]

Sign ups closed as of now, Grijalva, you're in btw.

[Baalz]

On second thought I'm gonna sit this out, you guys have a great game.

[Aethyr]

Executor, how much time are you allowing for pretender design/testing?

[Executor]

I'd ask you to reconsider your choice Baalz.

Aethyr, all, is 2-3 days for pretender design enough for everyone?
I hope everyone will have their pretenders ready by the time Calahan and I sort everything out, and make a decision map vise.

[Executor]

ALL, we only have 1 water nation which makes finding a map a little difficult, ideally we want a wraparound map and Asia Twist looks like the most suitable map for the current 18 players.

It has fixed starts(16 lands + 3 water), the only thing we need is a volunteer, someone willing to switch to a water nation and we're good to go.

If someone IS willing to make such a sacrifice please PM Calahan, I'll give it 24 hours, after that we're probably gonna have to go with a random map if we can't work it out.

Cheers all.

[Aethyr]

Three days design time would be swell, as long as you don't think it will slow things down too much. Thanks

[Baalz]

I'd ask you to reconsider your choice Baalz.



Yeah, alright. I was indeed looking forward to a game with ya, you're one of the few names around here that could get me to do so. I'll come stomp ya some with my Eagle Amazon Giants...

[Aethyr]

Baalz, I'm glad you reconsidered, I've always enjoyed playing in games with you.

[Executor]

Good to have you back Baalz.

Now, everyone, I think 3 days for pretender design is quite enough, so, get to it, the game will be created as soon as some admin stuff are worked out and the game should start in 3-4 days. I have no intention in waiting or chasing someone to send in their pretender so, if somebody doesn't send in the pretender in due time don't complain if the game start without you.
I would rather lose one player before the start, than a few due to lack of interest.

That being said, folks, do pay attention to the game name and the rules listed, this goes without exception for everyone. If any of you plan to make a fuss and disrupt this game by bailing do quit now.

There's nothing really I can do to prevent this, however you will most certainly be black marked for any future games I, or Calahan, organize.
It really hurts only you, and if RL stuff intervenes, contact the admin.

[Hylobius]

I just had a power surge fry my modem at home but I should be back on line tomorrow and have my pretender in on time.

[Grijalva]

oops, I'm in too! thanks!

[Isokron]

Have it been decided what indie strength to use? That could be important for pretender design.

[Executor]

Have it been decided what indie strength to use? That could be important for pretender design.

There have only been a few votes for higher indie strength and harder research, and several for regular settings, so we'd best go with regular settings, and as per requested renaming will be ON, I just hope nobody screws up.

[GrudgeBringer]

Have I missed the official game name or is it to be decided yet?

[Calahan]

Have I missed the official game name or is it to be decided yet?
@ Grudge - See the thread title. The name of the game is 'No Wankers Allowed'.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

@ All - The final number of players, exact nation choices, map options etc etc are still a behind-the-scenes work in progress. Once everything is nailed down as definite though, I will likely post the full list of nations in the game. And of course the map being used (or a choice of maps to vote on if there is a choice available, with wraparounds likely to be highly favoured if at all possible)

[GrudgeBringer]

One more question...Executor made the remark in a previous post that we will NOT wait for tardy pretenders (which I agree).

I now know the name of the game and have my pretender ready. Are we sending it to 'Someone' (like you) or are we waiting for it to appear on lllamaserver?:confused:

[Fantomen]

@Grudgebringer: My common sense tells me It will appear on llamaserver when map and mods are prepared.

[Calahan]

Ok folks, I've had a PM from a very kind player who has volunteered to swap his or her sturdy walking boots for a pair of flippers, and in doing so solve the slight issue we had regarding the lone water nation. My thanks certainly goes out to him or her for the help and sacrifice they're making for the good of the game :)

I will post the final nation list as soon as I get a spare moment to check it's correct (pretty busy right now). I will also be clarifying many of the game rules as well so that it's nice and clear what is expected of you all as players.

------------------------

@ Grudge - Pretenders will be sent straight to the llamaserver as per any other game. There's no point now trying to do fancy tricks like sending them to me just to hide the nation list. As with 19 players, almost every nation is in the game anyway, so little point trying to hide the obvious.

[Calahan]

NoWankersAllowed Player List

Land Nations

1. Abysia
2. Arco
3. C'tis
4. Ermor
5. Fomoria
6. Helheim
7. Hinnom
8. Kailasa
9. Lanka
10. Mictlan
11. Niefelheim
12. Pangaea
13. Sauro
14. T'ien Ch'i
15. Tir na n'Og
16. Ulm
17. Yomi

Water Nations

1. Atlantis
2. R'yleh


I'm guessing the map choice will come down to either Asia Twist or Alexander. Asia Twist seems perfect, but the starts will need sorting (as the pre-sets are only for 16 land nations, and we have 17)

[Calahan]

Ok everyone, the game is up on the llamaserver, so you can start sending in those Pretenders.

The final map decision isn't clear yet though, as someone needs to arrange the start locations, and right now everyone seems fairly busy. So we're not 100% sure of what to do regarding this yet. (although if there's any expert map editors out there reading this who fancy helping, then please don't be shy :))

There might also be another player joining after expressing interest on IRC. I will let you all know if this player is joining as soon as I know myself.

[Executor]

And all of you interested in playing this game, please don't say "pretender sent" or, "uh, sorry I'll send it now" and crap like that.

[Calahan]

And all of you interested in playing this game, please don't say "pretender sent" or, "uh, sorry I'll send it now" and crap like that.
Yes, good point Executor.

Please can everyone turn on their common senses, and do not post any comment at all about your Pretenders or when/if you are sending it, sent it, having it in soon, still designing etc etc. As anything along these lines is likely to give away clues with regards your nation ID.

Also don't post things such as "just 5 Pretenders to go", as this either implies you have already sent your Pretender in, or you are trying to play games and mislead others into thinking you have. I want all the game playing done in-game, and not out-of-game.

[Kobal2]

What's the sitch on banned spells ? Do we indeed ban Astral Corruption, Arcane Nexus and the Forge ?

[Executor]

I think it's a good way to go, and I think BoT should be included.
All those globals give too much power to one single nation which without diplomacy (global dispel, or attack) might just hand over the victory to the player that cast it/them with little or no effort.

But if guys want the spells in I guess we could keep them.

[Fantomen]

I'm positive to banning them.

[Ragnars Wolves]

Would you be banning them because of their power or becaue of the no diplomacy (or both)?

[Kobal2]

Yeah, Burden of Time probably needs to go too. It's less powerful in the EA but it's still basically a you-lose button to all the human nations (esp. considering few of them are big Astral players)

@Ragnar: Well, they are really powerful anyway, but in a no diplo game the rest of the world pooling their pearls to counter them is a no-go. Which essentially means the rest of the world would rely on the usual Astral suspects (Kailasa, R'Lyeh...) to dispel them, who may or may not be around at that point. Besides, they can't be expected to dispel the broken globals thrown around by 16 other nations on their own.

This would be even more true of Astral Corruption, since that spell relies on slaves which are and will always be more plentiful than pearls in a 1-on-1 context.

[Saros]

Yeah i'd say definitely ban all the big 'I win' globals as they are normally balanced by being a declaration of war on the entire world but that doesnt work so well when there's no diplo.

[Calahan]

All

I just found out about a death in my close family, so I'm sorry but I'm not going to be around for the next several days to get this game started.

I think the game can start with any admin though (a non-player admin only really needed to sort subs, check-up on stalers etc. once the game is well under way), so I'll PM the password to Executor for him to sort the game start out.

I should be back by next weekend.

[Herode]

Sorry to hear that, Calahan. No worries for the games, of course, and thanks for your involvement.
Bon courage,
H.

[Aethyr]

I'm sorry for your loss Calahan.

[Executor]

Still waiting on some players, the map question is still up, so it will probably be Asia Twist if I can add another start location, or Alexander.
It Should be sorted out during the day.

[Kobal2]

I'd vote for Alexander - it looks nicer for one thing, and Asia Twist probably has too much water if there are only 2 fish people in the game.

You'd probably have to double check the water starts on Alexander though, it has a couple of 1-3 provinces seas.

[Executor]

Yeah, I think I like Alexander better myself, however with Alexander there are about 14-15 provinces per player so I hope everyone's ok with that, should make for some interesting wars I guess. :)

[Fantomen]

More action and less micro, what is there to complain about? :P

[Drog the Destroyer]

15 provinces each sounds fun, I'm kind of a fan of early wars.:angel

[Executor]

Alex it is.
I'll try and squeeze another start province on the map, If I fail, we'll just go random.

[Executor]

Holla folks, I'll start the game in 24h. All pretenders better be in by than.

I was rather hoping I'd set the 19th start location today, however I'm currently operating on a rather crappy old PC that can barely run Dominions properly, so been down on luck with opening the map tga file with any image analyzer to even look at optional start locations let alone set them.
I was supposed to work this out with Calahan, but unfortunately as you all know he had this terrible event and won't be around for a while.

Now, if I somehow manage to add the last start location I'll upload that map file, if not you all better be prepared for random placing location, unless someone volentires to help with this.

BTW, as Calahan is the game admin, there aren't going to be any delay requests (don't send them to me please), I know the admin code, however I don't know the nations/players and would like it to stay that way. We can keep the clock on a bit longer host pace til he gets back if You want, and if anyone needs a sub, can't get his turn in on time, I suggest you ask for a temp sub.

Cheers all.

[Fantomen]

I think I'd rather wait another day then have totally random placement.

[Aethyr]

I agree with Fantomen.

[Executor]

OK, the map is ready, special thanks go to Maerlande for helping with the admin issues and fixing up our map.

The game should start any moment now so happy hunting,
Cheers.

[Ragnars Wolves]

My dad is out of town (GrudgeBringer) and he asked me to find out... (Quote)Is the map altered as I suspect and need to be D/l, and if so where can I get it and what exactly is it called as I have about 4 Alexander maps? (end quote)

I am supposed to D/l it for him as soon as I get the info (YEA!!! Free food)).

[Executor]

I don't think you need to have map file, just the map image.

Anyway, we've hit the start button about an hour ago and the game has not yet started, it has rather disappeared from the Llamaserver.
This has never happened to me before, but than again it just might be the Llamserver taking it's time, I don't know
If the game doesn't appear soon I will PM Llamabeast for help, hopefully the game won't have to be recreated.

[Marmaduke]

Shouldn't we switch to CBM 1.7 (just released) while it's still time?

[Aethyr]

I don't know if I'd agree. I've only given it a breif review, but some of the changes could be pretty significant since folks have already designed their pretenders. I'd hate to see the start delayed for all the tweaking that might follow.

[Saros]

This happened for another game I am in. We had to remake the game.

[Marmaduke]

Well, this game could last many months. It is not too late to change our pretenders accordingly in order to benefit from the up to date mod.
No big deal going with 1.6 as planned, though. Executor?

[Calahan]

I don't know, I go off the scene for a few days and the entire game disappears :shock:

My understanding is that the 'llamaserver disappearing game' trick is connected to the map naming somehow, and the options for fixing it are to either PM llama and wait until he can fit sorting it out into his busy schedule. Or take the initiative and just re-create the game.

I'm disappearing again now for a few days (only here now as I had to come into work for a few hours). Should be back before the weekend to resume admin duties here.


I would strongly advise against using CBM 1.7 as well. It seems to me to need a fair bit of testing due to some of the major changes it has made, and a game this size with this many players is not the place for testing, as some nations could be seriously disadvantaged due to the changes, and have their chances ruined due to no fault of the player(s). (and basic beta testing can be done in small quick throw-away games)

[Executor]

I don't think switching to CBM 1.7 is a good idea, it is still in beta and it has a far too big impact on some of the nations. I dislike the idea of adding a mod that hasn't been tested and used yet. And not to mention it would take additional time to test and recreate some nations pretenders.

I've PM'd Llama yesterday and from the likes of it he still hasn't seen the PM. I understand he's a busy man and given the fact we could be waiting for him for a while it might be better to just recreate the game and resend all pretenders?
Quick thoughts everyone? Recreate or wait for Llama?

[Kobal2]

Can't we do both ? If llama pipes up before all pretenders are up on the new game, good. If not, we roll with the new game. Either way, we get going as fast as possible and the workload is roughly the same for llama.

Or did I miss something ?

(oh, and count me out too on the new CBM. Too many untested changes, balance could be all wonky and we'd find out in two months. No thanks.)

[Executor]

Kobal2 has recreated the game for us since I can't access Llamaserver's map browser for some reason.
While we wait for Llama to respond, you should all resend pretenders, the new game name is 'No_Wankers_Allowed', and we'll see which way is faster.

Cheers.

[Executor]

Indeed! Please do not upload a map with spaces in the name. It might accept it (which is a somewhat mysterious bug), but instead of starting, your game will disappear, and then I will have to go and fix it.

Well I think this answers the question why the game vanished.
I'll get someone to upload the map under a different name and I guess it should work this time.

Please send pretenders.

[llamabeast]

Hello! Was going to look into it tonight, but yes, sounds like that was the problem. Sorry about that.

Maybe I will use the time I would have spent following this up on finally fixing the bug once and for all (i.e. making it refuse to accept such maps rather than allowing people to spend time uploading pretenders etc before disappearing).

[Executor]

Actually Llama, I just noticed that the map had an underscore not a space in between, does that matter? 'Alexander_NWA'
In any case, should we precede sending pretenders or can it be fixed?

[Herode]

Well, resending pretenders is not a big deal, is it ? ^^

[llamabeast]

Executor: In that case, I'm not sure why it failed. I didn't look into it in the end last night (accidentally played Minecraft till 1am instead!).

I'd suggest continuing with the plan of:
- You guys start re-uploading pretenders
- I will try to look into what happened before. I'm not very reliable at the moment though, as I rarely seem to get much computer time what with one thing and another.

[Ragnars Wolves]

I am sending this message for someone else so his identity will be kept secret.

He has tried to resend in his pretender He deleted his old one from his file to change some things (wanted to see if that was the problem), and resent new one to....pretenders@llamaserver.net and subject line NoWankersAllowed.

It won't take it...with the problems llamaserver is having he is wondering if that is the problem. I believe he is about the last pretender to be sent in and doesn't want to miss the game so any help would be appreciated.

[Ragnars Wolves]

Hopefully problem solved and Pretender sent in....forgot the _ between names on the subject line....Sorry to bother you

[Executor]

One pretender still missing, Yomi, you better get your ars in within 24 hours or I'm starting the game without you, 3 days to resend pretenders is more than generous.

[Calahan]

Ok all, I'm sort of back from dealing with my unexpected RL affairs. I likely won't be fully back to normal running until I clear the backlog of RL and work stuff that built up during my unexpected absence, but I'm back enough to resume admin duties here.

I have contacted the guilty party (with regards holding the start up), so hopefully that player won't keep everyone waiting too long now. I haven't gone through the thread yet, but can whoever created the game please PM me the password. Since my admin powers could be pretty limited without it :)

[Calahan]

I'll give the missing player another ~12 hours (to allow for timezones) to report in, otherwise I'll get this show on the road with 18 players.

The various problems have already seen the start of this game delayed too long, and the missing player has had plenty of time already to re-upload for take2. Plus if the player hasn't checked this thread at all, and so doesn't know a re-upload is needed, then that player's attention and interest in this game can't be too high to start with IMO. So better out than in.

[Calahan]

@ All - I'm out of the office for the rest of the day now, but I will be starting this game once I get home with or without the missing player. I should be home by around 22:00 GMT, so expect the game to start around that time. (I've just PM-ed the missing player to tell them it's last chance saloon for their Pretender submission)

[Calahan]

Ok everyone, I've just started the game for the second time, and once again it appears to have disappeared :( :(

I think there is a problem with the llamaserver, as the map selection and browser page isn't working correctly, as it's not updating the info displays when you select different maps. Although the old browser seems to be working fine. (maybe we broke it when we uploaded the map?!??)

I contacted llamabeast regarding this earlier this afternoon (when I thought it was just a map browsing problem) but I'll contact him again now as it appears to be a more fundamental problem with the server that is preventing games from starting. Although having said that, I have noticed other games starting recently, so maybe the problem is with using new uploaded maps.

Either way I'll contact llama, as I don't think this game is going to get started without his help.

[Calahan]

Right, I have PM-ed llama to let him know the situation. I have also tried creating another test game using a recently uploaded map, and that vanished the moment I started it as well. So there is definitely a kink in the system somewhere.

I need to get some sleep now, but while I'm waiting to hear back from llama, I might try and create test games with a few different maps until I find one that can be used to both start the game, and is suitable to our needs (there are several versions of both the Alexander and Asia Twist maps on the server, some uploaded long ago. So I'm hoping one of them will work. Although llama sprinkling some of his magic dust in our direction is still likely the prefered solution.)

[Marmaduke]

Maybe llamaserver has a profanity filter and erases games with bad words? (Just joking bro. Good luck with launching the game.)

[Calahan]

Ok everyone, I've done some testing this morning (many apologies to llamabeast for spamming his server with fake games :() and it appears the Alexander map has vanished. As I tried starting games with 3 different version of it, and all went up in smoke the moment I started them. (but then I tried starting a game with the recently added Land of Legends map as well, and that also vanished when I started it. But another game recently started using it with (it seems) no problems. Just odd all round basically ?!?!)

But I just tried starting a game with the Asia Twist map, and that started just fine.

So my next course of action is to try re-uploading our version of the Alexander map, and the original version, and then trying to create games with those two maps. If that works, then we should be good to go for another start attempt. If it fails, then I guess other than waiting for llama (which I never like doing as he's a busy guy, and I like to see people trying to solve their own problems first), we will just have to go for the Asia Twist map that is already on the server. It apparantly has fixed starts for 16+3.

Will keep you all informed of my progress as best I can.

[Calahan]

I will hesitantly say that I think we're in business. I just re-uploaded our map for this game (changing all the file names), and tried starting a game with it (MapTester4 for those interested), and this time it did start correctly, and sent out turns files like it did in the good old days :)

I will test it again to make sure, but if that test goes ok as well, then I think we are on safer ground to go for a third attempt by re-uploading Pretenders again. (as we've sent some scouts out this time to test the land :))

[Aethyr]

Calahan, we all owe you a big "thank you!" for working so hard to get this game up and running.

[Calahan]

Calahan, we all owe you a big "thank you!" for working so hard to get this game up and running.
Don't thank me yet as you might jink things ;)

---------------------------------------------

@ All - Further update

I have created a clone of our game on the llamaserver (MapTester5) which did successfully start, has appeared on the running games list as it should, and it sent out the turn files for turn 1 as expected. (I got properly spammed with new turn files :))

I will now go through the process of checking each turn to ensure the starts match the province #'s intended, to make sure the map uploaded correctly more than anything. If all that checks out, then I will re-create the game again for you to all upload Pretenders to.

(I will leave the MapTester5 game on the server until the game starts though, as if all else fails, I'll just un-start that game and in theory we can use that as the chassis. I think :confused:)

Will post another update soon.

----------------------------------

Edit - Not a Welcome Update

Houston, we have a problem. Just checked the starts, and two of them are right next to each other :( But they do match the starts in the .map file, which means the map needs to be re-done :( :( (provinces 258+264 are the culprits for those who downloaded the .map file). I hoped someone would have spotted or troubleshooted that while I was away. Oh well.

So the game starting problems seem to be solved for the moment, but I will have to examine the map file closer and see if the error is just a typo or not. If it is, then it's likely an easy fix. If not, someone (or me basically) will need to balance all the starts again. Which will sadly push the start ETA back a fair bit :(


This has already taken too much of my time this morning though, so I likely won't be able to get on the problem until much later today.

[Calahan]

I've had a chance to look closely at the map, and the starts at 290+269 are adjacent as well. So the problem with the starts at 264+258 wasn't just a typo. (so even if the previous attempts to start the game had started, neither would have been any use to us)

This means the map is unusable in it's current form, so it will basically have to be re-done from scratch for 17+2. I personally won't have time to do this until Sunday at the earliest, so if someone wants to volunteer to get it done before then, please be my guest and step forward :)

Or

The Yomi player did not report-in in time for the start of the most recent attempt to get this game going. So I am starting to edge strongly towards booting the Yomi player and going with just 18 players. This has the huge advantage (I hope*) of allowing us to use the July 2008 version of the Alexander map, as that has pre-set starts for 16+3 (which I'll edit slightly for 16+2). Or the Asia Twist map which also has pre-sets for 16+3. (again it should be another easy edit job for 16+2)


* I say I hope, as this will mean uploading another map + image file, when we are back in the lap of fate with regards how happy the llamserver will be.


I'm also slightly unsure about creating the game (to allow Pretender uploads) until the map is sorted, as maybe changing the map after the initial game creation is what is causing the problem (and haven't got time right now to test this theory)


I'll hopefully get back to you a little later with a decision. (although I must admit the more I think of it, the more attractive the option of starting with 18 is looking. Since the Yomi player did use up all of their credit by not uploading their Pretender in the three days the 2nd game was in the waiting for Pretenders stage)

[Ragnars Wolves]

I am in that Land of Legends Map game and they modified it a bit to have 9 fixed starts (1 Water). All starts have 4 provinces, 1 farmland 1 mountain etc except 2 nations (and they got 1 extra province).

I know that map is too small for your game but you mentioned it and I thought I would just give you some info on it.

The guy who did the mod (we may have a new budding mod maker among us)is attackdrone if you need some info.

The name of the game is Kindanew.

[Kobal2]

@Calahan, Executor : would it be a dick move for me to drop out at this point ? A fat load of work landed on my lap more or less unexpectedly and I'm not sure I can make time to play 4 games at once in the short term, least not with much attention.

I obviously don't want to take a steaming dump on a game you guys have put so much effort in to get going, so if my dropping'd cheese you off I'll figure something out.

[Calahan]

@Calahan, Executor : would it be a dick move for me to drop out at this point ? A fat load of work landed on my lap more or less unexpectedly and I'm not sure I can make time to play 4 games at once in the short term, least not with much attention.

I obviously don't want to take a steaming dump on a game you guys have put so much effort in to get going, so if my dropping'd cheese you off I'll figure something out.
I wouldn't say that's the biggest disaster in the world. And I think it's certainly better for you to drop out now rather than have problems submitting turns and start staling later in the game due to RL time constraints (plus the affect it will have on your commitments to other games if you take too many on)


There is still the issue with the Yomi player (Mr/Mrs. Yomi player, if you are reading this, then please contact me asap, and please do not post in the thread regarding whether or not you are playing for obvious reasons.) so if you do wish to drop out, your 'life' will likely be used to save that of the Yomi player.

--------------------------

@ All

I'm currently in the middle of testing the map I uploaded, and submitting 18 Pretenders to see if the llamaerver is happy to use it. If all goes well, then I'll un-create the game, after which it should be all systems go for a third attempt at starting.

[Calahan]

Ok everyone, I have re-created the game. The name of the game is now StillNoWankersAllowed (had to rename it since you can't use names of previous games due to how the llamaserver archives work).

I have also tested the game by submitting 18 Pretenders (16L + 2W) and starting the game. I checked all the starts, and they were all correct, and there was no Houdini tricks pulled this time either. I then uncreated the game, and deleted all the Pretenders. (and that is where the game currently stands)


So, can I please ask everyone to once again upload their Pretenders for a third attempt at getting this game started. Taking note of the new game name StillNoWankersAllowed (no spaces or underscores).

Thank you all for your patience while the problems with the map and llamaserver were being ironed out.

[Calahan]

Just one Pretender to go for the game to start (already PM-ed the missing player), so hopefully this game will get going before the end of the day (I have a back-up plan if the player doesn't show)


Also, I forgot to mention that you will all need to make a duplicate copy of the Alexander.tga file, and rename it AlexanderNWA.tga, in order to access the turns. I haven't made any changes to the image file, but the Alexander.tga image file on the llamaserver seems to be bugged (which is possibly why the starts failed) so I had to upload a new one. And had to rename it for the llamaserver to accept it.

For the computer challenged, I've attached a renamed image file that you should unzip into your map folder.

[Aethyr]

Calahan, when I try to unzip the file I get two error messages: 1) "no fles to extract"; and 2) "Unknown method in AlexanderNWA.tga. :confused:

Suggestions?

[Calahan]

Calahan, when I try to unzip the file I get two error messages: 1) "no fles to extract"; and 2) "Unknown method in AlexanderNWA.tga. :confused:

Suggestions?
Hhmmmm indeed, I just tried unpacking it myself with regular compression programs, and I get errors as well.

I think the problem is basically that I use 7-zip for archiving stuff, and it has a lot of unique compression methods that only 7-zip can identify. The last time I attached a large file (the map for YARG2) I attached it as a .7zp file, and some people asked "what's that". So this time I used 7-zip again but told it to create a .zip file instead. But didn't realise that this also uses the unique compression methods that you still need 7-zip to unpack.

So, to cut a long ramble short, to unpack the attachment you will need the 7-zip program, which can be found....

here

http://www.7-zip.org/

or here (in case you are one of the people who only trust programs on filehippo)

http://www.filehippo.com/download_7zip/


Let me know if you (or anyone) is still having problems.


ps. I'm still waiting to hear from the missing player, but I have already initiated my backup plan should it be needed.

[Happyfungi]

would just renaming the alexander.tga file work as well?

i mean an existing one.

[Marmaduke]

I think you can go into the Dominions/maps folder, find the one name Alexander_NoSites.tga (that you have installed before), rename it into AlexanderNWA.tga and you should be fine. :)

[Calahan]

I think you can go into the Dominions/maps folder, find the one name Alexander_NoSites.tga (that you have installed before), rename it into AlexanderNWA.tga and you should be fine. :)
Or that. (although if you rename the actual Alexander image file, you won't be able to use it for other games that might need it. Which is why I suggested making a duplicate first, and then renaming that)

[Aethyr]

OK, used 7-zip. It appears that the AlexanderNWA.tga was unpacked, but with a file size of zero (expected?), and one message: "unsupported compression method for AlexanderNWA.tga."

[Calahan]

OK, used 7-zip. It appears that the AlexanderNWA.tga was unpacked, but with a file size of zero (expected?), and one message: "unsupported compression method for AlexanderNWA.tga."
Hhhmmm, odd. Not sure why it's not working to be honest.

As an alternative, maybe just download the original Alexander map from the OP of this thread.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37295

Unzip it to somewhere that isn't the map folder. Rename the Alexander.tga file to AlexanderNWA.tga and then copy that file into the map folder.

If that is no good either, then PM me your email address, and I will send you the image file in uncompressed format. As long as your email account can accept 40mb files that is. (I can't attach the file to a fourm post uncompressed, as it's above the file size limit.)

[Aethyr]

OK, that seems to have done the trick. One last question, this is just the image, so I should not expect to see a Map Named AlexanderNWA in the "in game" map list, right?

Thanks!

[Calahan]

OK, that seems to have done the trick. One last question, this is just the image, so I should not expect to see a Map Named AlexanderNWA in the "in game" map list, right?

Thanks!
Correct. A .map file is needed for it to appear in the map selection list (when creating a new game).

-------------------------------------

@ All - I hope the game will be starting in the next hour or so, with or without the missing player.

-------------------------------------

Edit - Ok everyone, the missing player has uploaded their Pretender, so I have just started the game.

Fingers crossed that it's third time lucky (as it'll be tough to handle another failed start)


Edit 2 - I think we're in business. AT LAST!!! :)

Please let me know if you spot any mistakes or weirdness with the starts or map. Otherwise it's time for me to slip away into the background until I'm needed again.

So enjoy the game folks, and shout if you need me. And please notify me (by PM, not forum post) if anyone stales so I can look into the matter, as it's more difficult for me to spot stales in games I'm not playing in.

[Executor]

It seems Calahan managed what I couldn't, thanks for starting the game.
Good luck all, and remember the game rules.

[Calahan]

I've uploaded the uncompressed image file to a file hosting site, as some of you still seem to be having problems obtaining it from the links I provided.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=I6ZS6743

[Calahan]

@ All - Due to my sudden RL problems two weeks ago, and a fairly busy week since getting back, I appear to have forgotten to clarify some of the rules and player commitments / expectations for this game. So I will mention them now. (I will also be sending all players a PM about these rules just in case some don't check the thread. And as per Real Life, ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for breaking them)

---------------------------------

Some admin requests.

Not sure how clear some of the rules and conditions for this game currently are, but I thought I'd take this opportunity to spell out a few of them as clearly as possible so that there is no room for ambiguity later on. And I want every player to know what is expected of them as a player. Since all the players in a game are responsible for making it a good game, and it sometimes only takes one faulty spotlight to spoil the whole show for everyone.


Calahan's Admin Requests to all players in the 'NWA' game.

1 - Nobody is to reveal their nation at any time until their nation has been defeated in-game. You must do everything you can to keep your nation identity a secret until your nation is defeated in game. You must also be very careful about anything you post on the thread that could reveal your identity. Even the slightest clue can often be enough for others to guess which nation you are playing. If a player has to sub-out of the game, then I still want that player to keep his identity a secret. As my stance as admin is that a player subbing-out should not have their identity revealed until their nation is actually defeated in-game. (Which is different from the current norm of anonymous games.)

1a - There is to be no sending of anything in game. That means no messages, gems, items, slaves, gold. Nothing can be sent in game at all. If your nation is defeated then whatever resources you had at the end are lost with your nation. You are certainly not to send out 'gift' baskets to anyone upon your defeat. That only happens in regular games. Never forget that this is not a regular game.

1b - No messages are to be sent to any other player in this game. Be they in-game, PM, email, IRC, whatever. It does not matter. You must not communicate in any way with any other player in this game regarding this game. If you want to chat about the game, then chat with the admin :)


2 - Everyone is expected to fight until the last man, and to at least put some effort into making a last stand in the defence of their empire, should that situation arise for a player in-game. I do not want to see or hear about lazy playing such as capitals being stormed with all defending mages and troops on default scripts and positioning. Or going out with a treasury full of gems that could have been used to summon defenders. I expect everyone to have some pride in their play and their nation, and to put some effort into making sure their nation goes out fighting rather than cowering.


3. There is to be no turning AI by any player at any point in the game.

This is a golden set-in-stone rule for games I admin. I do not care who you are, or who you think you are. You could be the God of this community, or the God of this world for all I care. It is I and I alone who will decide when and if any nation gets turned AI in this game. Nobody else, and I mean absolutely nobody else, gets to decide whether or not a nation gets turned AI.


4 - Leaving the game.

4a - You leave the game when you receive the in-game message from the game telling you that your nation has been defeated.

4b - If you need to leave the game for out-of-game reasons, then you can certainly do so without the slightest problem, and this is not even an issue, as real life is real life. But be aware I will not be impressed if you decide to leave this game for RL reasons, but then still continue playing in your other games. I hate selective bailing.

4c - If RL does force you to leave the game though, then please give notice if you can. Or if you are unable to for whatever reason, then please just go AWOL, as that really is preferable most of the time rather than a player setting their nation to AI first. As AWOL means a chance of subbing the nation and minimum imbalance to the game. While going AI means either varying degrees of game imbalance, or a dreaded rollback to solve the problem. And I want to see neither of these things happening in this game. And I want rollbacks strictly limited to solving things like hosting problems and/or corrupted turn files. (and even then I don't want to rollback unless it's the only possible solution to the problem)

4d - If you want to leave the game for in-game reasons, rather than sticking it out and fighting until the very end, then Executor and I will be very disappointed given that we expect all players to fight until their last man. And it is unlikely you will be allowed to play in any of our future games. But you can reduce our disappointment slightly if you at least have the common decency to inform the admin first about wanting to leave, so that the admin can assess your position, and try to find a sub if possible. And see rule 3 for very specific clarity on turning AI.


5 - Be careful with that renaming, as it could give your identity away if you are known for using certain naming habits. Plus I don't want to hear about anyone using lame arse naming tactics to mislead opponents or convey messages etc. This is not a regular game, it is an anonymous game. So renaming is to be used strictly to help with the micro management of your empire.


6 - Basically, don't be a wanker. No lame arse tactics like copying Bogus orders, sending items to overfill labs, or probing with lone scouts and commanders to block the movement of enemy armies. If you are not sure if what you are doing, or what you are about to do is the action of a wanker, then I highly recommend checking with the admin first so he can tell you.


"Thank You" for your time in reading this. Happy gaming everyone :)

[Executor]

Read it, remember it, don't break it, or else the one true Admin will ban you!
Seriously, I expect all players to be committed to the fullest. Lead your nations as if Yourselves are sitting on the throne.

[Executor]

??? Interesting...

[Calahan]

Just posting a quick heads-up for you all that there will likely be some extended turns towards the end of the coming week. (quite surprised I haven't had/seen any 48h requests yet given the game is quickly closing in on turn 30)

Will let you all know more about the delays nearer the time.

[Hylobius]

I'm going to be on the road for two weeks starting on the 15th, so I would appreciate if we could go to 48 hours before then.

[Calahan]

@ All

I've started having some requests for a 48 hour schedule. And since the game is approaching turn 30, and likely well into mid-game by now, I suspect a few more players would also likely appreciate a bit more time for their turns.

So unless there are any serious objections, I will be increasing the hosting schedule to 48 hours from turn 30 onwards.

[Calahan]

@ All

I'm not sure what you guys want to do with regards the schedule for the festive holidays. I've had PM's from some players with requests for delays, some PM's generally mentioning a player won't be around, and other PM's from players saying they might be around, but if they are, they'd prefer to be doing family / festive stuff at this time of year rather than playing Dominions. (all of which is both easy to understand and very reasonable IMO)

I'm admining a few other games right now, and in those games I am likely changing the schedule to something like 240 hours with quickhost on, so if players get their turns in the game will host, and if not, the deadline won't hit until sometime in the New Year. And also trust that a player will get their turn done during this time if they are able to.

From the various requests I have received, a 240h schedule starting around the 22nd or 23rd seems to cover everything, so unless I hear any strong objections, and/or a better idea (that doesn't involve lots of players finding lots of temp subs) then this is also what I will do with this game to cover the needs of the festive holidays. (I will of course let you all know when this happens if it does)

[Fantomen]

Sounds alright to me.

[Marmaduke]

+1, thanks Calahan

[Ragnoff]

This works for me and is an elegant solution I think, thanks.

[GrudgeBringer]

I'm good with it..

[Aethyr]

A good plan--thanks Calahan.

[zultor]

works for me, thanks

[Calahan]

Ok everyone, I've changed the hosting schedule to 240hours until the New Year to accommodate all the various delays/schedule requests I've had. The current deadline is now 11:25 GMT Sunday 2nd January, but the turns will continue to host if everyone gets their turns in.

Hope you all enjoy the holidays and New Year.

[Calahan]

@ All (Happy New Year)

Hope everyone enjoyed the holidays :) but now that they are over, it's time to get this game running on a normal schedule again.

I have now switched the timer back to 48 hours, although this won't take effect until the next turn, as the llamaserver doesn't reduce the hosting deadline unless you specifically tell it to . And I won't reduce the deadline since I don't believe a deadline should ever be reduced, as it causes too many potential problems. But I will chase-up and get annoyed with anyone who I suspect is "having a laugh" with submitting their turn, as I want the current turn to host well before the 12th Jan deadline. So can I please ask you all not to get silly with turn submissions just because you have a generous deadline.

(As a note, I was going to switch the schedule back to 48 hours at some point while it was on 240 hours. But was afraid of doing it too early in case the game hosted while I was away (since I knew I was going to be away at various points during the holidays). I did intend to switch it back yesterday, but got back from my New Year's trip a day later than I expected, and missed the chance as a result. Hence the stupid deadline this turn. So apologies for that. Anyway....)


The New Year also brings with it the game's first casualty in the shape of Arco, which was played by Herode. Thank you for playing Herode, hope you enjoyed the game :)

The first player out also prompts me to remind you all that if/when you are eliminated, please do not post anything in the thread that might affect the game for others. ie. Do not post which nation killed you, or any such similar information or game intel that other players should not know about.

(the first casualty also reminds me that I need to sort out the OP, as it has shamefully been on my to-do list for too long now, so I'll try and get on that today if I can.)

[Herode]

Hi there, ladies & gentlemen, I wish you a happy new year :)

I did enjoy the game, thanks to Calahan for admining and congrats to my opponent for having given me an interesting (to say the least :D) challenge !

Have fun and be wild !

H. from Arcoscephale

[Baalz]

Thanks for the bang up job admining Calahan. Your efforts are making sure that a great game is had by all and its much appreciated!

[Calahan]

My spies inform me that the game is heating up, as the second nation was eliminated this turn. With Mictlan's demise coming hot on the tail of Arco's. So I can now reveal that Mictlan was played by your game organiser Executor.

(I will be sorting out the OP straight after I finish this post, so expect to see an update shortly)

Thanks for the bang up job admining Calahan. Your efforts are making sure that a great game is had by all and its much appreciated!
Thanks Baalz. I just hope my efforts as admin are having some positive effects on how enjoyable everyone is finding the game. I am very happy though that the game is this far in without any sort of problems having occurred, plus the all important zero showing by the dreaded AI :)

So while I have the chance, I'd like to thank everyone if I can for so-far sticking to the extensive set of player rules I sent out. I only ask that you all please keep it up, as it makes my job as admin a lot easier, and hopefully, the game more enjoyable for everyone. With the latter being the most important aspect of course :)

[Executor]

Well that was interesting.
I hope I managed to stir up some trouble at least before I went down.
Apologies to nations X, Y and Z for possibly depriving them of some provinces or getting them into war with my conquerors I hope?
To nation X, seeing my scout (quite regular) capture a province with 30 troops in it, given half set to retreat, but still, was the funniest and weirdest battle I have ever seen in Dominions.
I watched it over and over again, it was ridiculous. Now the reason I did that is because that was originally my province before the barbarians took over and I was forced to abandon it due to, well war. So don't hold a grudge. :)

To my main enemy, it is my firm belief that had you attack just two turns later you would have lost. Indeed I planned to attack you 2-3 turns after you started your attack on me, but by the time I managed to pull my forces together one fort had already fallen and I lost my archer backup and one part of my army sadly.
Perhaps I should have anticipated that with a large army on my border for several turns but it was only turn 12 or so.

Second, I curse the bastard who stole my merc army just before the main clash with my invader, they were a very important part of the army! BTW, you must have had crazy money to overbid on them.

Third, regarding that big battle, it worked out much better with my missing part of the army and my mages casting harm on someone that could actually be affected. (I won it in my test battles, go figure)
I'll just add that to luck, well misfortune rather.
And I was torn on whether I should have confronted you on a winner takes all in my lands, or make a move toward your cap while you chase me back. Wrong decision I guess with my army being weakened and getting attacked by another nation.

All in all, even with luck 3 I have never had such bad luck in a game, with 3 indie attacks, famines, migrations in my cap, constant unrest events and gold losing event and all other crap by turn 20.
The only positive thing I got out of luck 3 were gems, which proved to be unusable in the end due to lack of research, and mages...sigh
Heh, and it's quite funny when you pull all your remaining cash into PD, well rather alchemize ALL gems since you can't use them, to about 60-70 PD if I remember and than "the people suddenly revolt" and you lose that province. That, heh, that was nice... :)

Well good luck to the rest of you.

Also, Calahan is still the main admin and his word is the word of God for this game, however should he become unreachable for some reason I'm still here to sort out trouble, grant delays, look for subs, etc...

Cheers all.

BTW, OP updated.

[Baalz]

All in all, even with luck 3 I have never had such bad luck in a game, with 3 indie attacks, famines, migrations in my cap, constant unrest events and gold losing event and all other crap by turn 20.
The only positive thing I got out of luck 3 were gems, which proved to be unusable in the end due to lack of research, and mages...sigh
Heh, and it's quite funny when you pull all your remaining cash into PD, well rather alchemize ALL gems since you can't use them, to about 60-70 PD if I remember and than "the people suddenly revolt" and you lose that province. That, heh, that was nice... :)

Yeah, I've had this same experience, and recently I've come to think it's tied to the conventional (and I think wrong) idea that it's a good idea to take luck-3 scales with awful other scales. The reason this ends up being a bad idea is because the best/worst events are tied to scales. If you have 4 good events they may be unrest is reduced, or your dominion expanded then you get 1 bad event that barbarians attacked or half your population died. You're getting many more good events but the impact of the fewer bad ones is much more significant. With crappy other scales I think you'll generally come up well head to go with neutral order/luck rather than turmoil-3/luck-3...

[Calahan]

@ All - Turn 39 saw the lizard nation of C'tis eliminated. Their ruler was Hylobius.


@ - Hylobius - "Thank You" for playing Hylobius. I hope you both enjoyed the game, and that you learned a lot from the experience. And also thanks for fighting until the very end, as that is much appreciated by myself as admin, and all the players, as it enhances the game a lot all round when nobody can gain ground by default wins against the AI.

[Hylobius]

Thanks for the game and thanks to Calahan for his excellent job with admin duties. I will refrain from making any comments about the game so that I don't accidentally spill any information.

[Calahan]

@ All

I've been informed that we have another man down, with last turn bringing with it the fall of Ermor's Sacred Temple of the Shroud. Ermor was led right up until the final battle by Aethyr.


Thanks for playing Aethyr, and for fighting it out until your last Principe fell. Much appreciation and thanks for that, as always. Hope you enjoyed the game, and that you're not yet too seasoned as a Dom player to have learnt a few things from it ;)

[Executor]

OP updated, 14 players left.
Thanks for participating Aethyr.

Cheers.

[Aethyr]

Thanks Calahan for the absolute wonderful job you've done as admi in this game.

I'll refrain from further comments at this time other than to congratulate my persistent opponent, and to wish all remaining players good luck. :)

[Calahan]

It seems the attempt of the Witch Kings to rule the world has failed, as I have been notified that their elimination came last turn (turn 45). Sauromatia was played by GrudgeBringer.

Thanks for playing Grudge. Hope RL works itself out for you and your family.

[Calahan]

@ All

For those who don't know yet, the llamaserver is having a bad time, and in the past few hours has hosted a load of games with errors, and then removed them from the server.

As such llamabeast has switched off his server until he has time to fix it (which he said will be tomorrow). So this game won't be hosting at the expected deadline. I will let you all know what's happening once I know myself.

[Calahan]

@ All

Just quickly popping in to let you all know that the llamaserver appears to be working again, so it's business as usual for this game.

[Executor]

ALL,
Please ignore the email sent by admin, it was a mistake on my part.

Also, The game is delayed by 24h.

[Baalz]

Vic. conditions: Till the death


So, it's just occurred to me that with the strict anonymity of this game and everyones commitment to play till the death this is going to lead to a very long and miserable end game once the winner is obvious and no concession is possible. The mirco involved in controlling a 200+ province empire when all remaining players are in guerrilla/raiding/"bunker in castle" mode sounds like punishment for bad acts in a past life, while the non-winning players are presumably having a fairly limited amount of fun. I wonder if maybe we could, assuming unanimous consent, alter the victory conditions to be something achievable while the game is still somewhat fun? Perhaps something like when one nation is in control of all capitals?

[Calahan]

Vic. conditions: Till the death


So, it's just occurred to me that with the strict anonymity of this game and everyones commitment to play till the death this is going to lead to a very long and miserable end game once the winner is obvious and no concession is possible. The mirco involved in controlling a 200+ province empire when all remaining players are in guerrilla/raiding/"bunker in castle" mode sounds like punishment for bad acts in a past life, while the non-winning players are presumably having a fairly limited amount of fun. I wonder if maybe we could, assuming unanimous consent, alter the victory conditions to be something achievable while the game is still somewhat fun? Perhaps something like when one nation is in control of all capitals?
Yes, the victory conditions for this game might not be the best given the size of the map, and anonymous aspect of the players.

I'm pushed for time today, but tomorrow I will privately contact each player (as thread posts/discussion might give away clues to player ID's) to gather their opinion, and will likely offer everyone a few options with regards what to do about the victory conditions. Not exactly sure what those options will be yet, but probably a choice between keeping the original victory conditions, switching to requiring all capitals (as suggested above) or a percentage/fixed number of capitals. (the latter will likely need another sub-vote for what percentage/fixed number is required). Or perhaps a majority concession rather than a total one, such as 2/3 or 3/4 etc.

I doubt a victory condition that isn't based on capitals or concession in some way is feasible given how far into the game we've gone. But like I said I'll aim to come up with something over the next 24 hours or so, and circulate it via PM to obtain feedback and votes.


(if anyone wants to give feedback on this before I contact them, then please do so to me via PM. Or if you want to post on the thread in order to convey your message to all players, then maybe again please PM the message to me and I'll post it for you anonymously. As posting on this matter might for example inadvertently give clues to your ID, since an innocent post saying "I don't mind what the victory conditions are" could indicate you have no chance of winning, and therefore give some clue as to your ID. Which I'd like to avoid for obvious reasons)

[Marmaduke]

I was Atlantis and just lost my last candle. Since I was about to lose my last fortress, it was really a race to the loss for me. I am surprised I managed to survive so long without my capital city - circumstances and a lack of real opposition when I fled to the ground I guess.
I won't say too much but I guess it should be ok to say that R'lyeh the other sea-based nation was my main issue; I had a strategy but did not implement it very well and was unlucky to see him get a Kelp right next to Atlantis. I think I managed to give him one bad surprise at some point (hint: Astral magic) but when I tried to do it again I stupidly risked my Master Lich outside of my dominion. The loss of my pretender was a crushing blow to my civ.
All in all a fun day, salutations to everybody especially R'lyeh.

[Calahan]

@ All - Sorry for not yet contacting you all about changing the victory conditions like I said I would. Real life work has been all consuming this week, but I should have enough time today to start the ball rolling on this, so all remaining players can expect a PM from me on this matter within the next hour or two.

----------

@ Marmaduke

Thanks for playing. Sounds like you had a tough campaign, but I hope you enjoyed it all the same, and of course learnt a thing or two for next time :) And like all those before you, a big thank you for playing until the very end. It is most appreciated by all the players and admins, as all players doing so leads to far better game all round :)

[Calahan]

@ All

Below the chequered line is a message I would like to send you all privately, but due to the 5,000 character limit on PM's, it would take me half the day to send out the 2-3 PM's each that it would need to send it to each of you (it's bordering 10k+ characters.) I made one quick attempt to cut it to 5k, but that ended up as a mess. As such I will instead just PM you all a link to this post, and a short PM highlighting the voting options of this message.

Now importantly, can I ask you all NOT TO POST any sort of reply or vote in the thread, as that might give away some clues to your nation identity, and to instead, PLEASE MAKE ALL REPLIES AND VOTES BY PM, as that will make sure no clues are given away regarding those precious secret identities. If you do feel the uncontrollable urge to post feedback in the thread, then can I please ask you to take extra care to ensure that it is just a general post, and nothing related specifically to the current game state.

-----------------------

NWA Players

I'm contacting you all regarding the victory conditions in the No Wankers Allowed game. The game was advertised with the victory conditions being (from the OP) "Till the death", which means the same as 'unanimous concession' (ie. concession by everyone), and it is these victory conditions that are still in effect now.

But given that the game...

a) Has anonymous players
b) Has no score graphs
b) Is being played on a large map

...it is easy to imagine a scenario where the game has a clear leader / winner, but who is not declared a unanimous winner due to the other players simply not knowing how dominant a position that player holds. So as a result of the current victory conditions, the game could very easily go on for many more turns, and many more weeks than is necessary before the overwhelming leader is declared the winner. Which is a scenario that would bring with it a lot of obviously unwanted results and side-effects, all of which I would like to avoid happening in this game if at all possible.

So due to the potential problems of this 'unanimous concession' condition, by both player request and my own misgivings, I aim to gather opinion and feedback with regards changing the victory conditions to one that is more suited for size of the game, and the settings it is being played under. So can I please ask you to vote and/or provide any feedback you wish on the following suggestions for a new set of victory conditions. I won't make a decision strictly by the votes, but a very good reason would be needed for me not to go with the wishes of the majority of the players.


Voting Options

As I see it, there are two options for victory conditions.

1 - Victory by acquiring capitals (and holding them if necessary)
2 - Victory by majority concession (note this is not a unanimous concession)


Option 1 - Victory by acquiring capitals

Changing to Option 1 will be by far the simplest all round, as all that will be required is to agree upon the required number of capitals a player needs to obtain, and whether or not they need to hold these capitals for a set number of turns. There are 18 capitals in the game, so some logical options regarding the number required are.

Sub-Section 1.1

1a - 9 capitals, or 50%
1b - 10 capitals, or >50%
1c - 12 capitals, or 66%
1d - 15 capitals, or 83%
1e - 18 capitals, or 100%

I personally think option 1c would be a good choice considering the size of the game and the stage it has reached. But that is just my opinion, and everyone is free to vote for any option they wish to. (Remember, please vote by PM only)

When it comes to the added requirement of needing to hold the capitals for a set number of turns, there are probably only two sensible options.

Sub-section 1.2

1y - 1 turn, so to win a player only needs to own the required number of capitals on one single turn to claim victory (note, this would simulate the victory condition seen in games that have VP marked capitals)
1z - 3 turns, so to win a player needs to own and hold the required number of capitals for 3 consecutive turns. eg. The required number of capitals would need to be owned at the start of turn 100, 101, and 102 to claim victory. (I have suggested 3 turns, as this is by far the most often used duration for games which use the "capture and hold" victory condition)

All victory claims that involve capturing capitals will obviously need to be checked by myself or Executor before a win is confirmed.


Option 2 - Victory by (majority) concession

Changing the victory conditions to Option 2 would be more in-line with the original victory conditions, but would also bring with it a lot of potential problems. As unless there is unanimous concession, any individual may feel they have the right to veto any calls another player has on victory, and this is irrespective of whether or not the grounds for the veto turn out to be valid given the luxury of hindsight and analysis.

As for example, one immediate problem I can visualise is that of a clear leader asking for a concession, and there being one other player (lets call him "the contender") of reasonable strength, but well behind the.leader in power. Along with any number of other players (lets call them "the others") further behind again. So the leader asks for a concession, and all of "the others" agree to this concession, but the "contender" doesn't for whatever reason. Now under any majority rules, the concession of all but one of the players will probably meet the required percentage of players accepting concession in order to claim victory. But of course this could leave "the contender" feeling particularly hard done by, as he/she might well have thought they had genuine winning chances (and like I said, irrespective of whether they turn out to be genuine given hindsight and analysis).

One solution is to give "the contender" veto rights, but then this leads to the problem of where to draw the line. As if there are two contenders, do they both get veto rights? And what if there are three or four contenders, do they all get the same rights? And what exactly qualifies someone as a "contender". Who or what decides this? There are so many aspects to Dominions that simply judging on provinces, gem income etc will often be an inadequate way of judging a player's relative power level. And having to meet too many conditions to gain veto rights, ie. to become a "contender", will likely lead to an administrative nightmare. While having too few conditions could lead to a huge number of players having veto rights, and with it the obvious consequence of a never ending game due to each concession vote being vetoed.

So as I see it, changing the victory conditions to one of majority concession could potentially lead to a lot more problems than it solves. Unanimous concession is easy to adjudicate, as either everyone agrees to concede, or the game continues. But any other form of concession victory leads to a whole host of potential problems and judgements calls. All of which I'd like to avoid if possible (again for all the obvious reasons).

As such, I highly recommend that the victory conditions are changed to some form of Option 1. But if the majority of the remaining players do wish to have a concession victory of some kind, and vote for Option 2, then I will come up with some criteria and conditions for a majority concession victory, and contact everyone again regarding them. Which brings me on to the voting...


To vote, simply pick Option 1 or Option 2, and PM me your vote (or reply to the PM I will be sending you shortly)

If you vote for Option 1, then can I also please ask you to make a subsequent vote in sub-sections 1.1 and 1.2, regarding the precise nature of the victory conditions of requiring capitals. If you wish to vote for Option 1, but have no voting preference in the sub-sections, then your vote for Option 1 will still count. If you have a preference or idea for a winning condition related to capitals that is not listed in the sub-sections (such as holding capitals for a duration of turns that is not one or three) then please do provide your own feedback on the matter, as I will take everything into consideration before making a final decision.

If you vote for Option 2, then I would please still ask you to vote in the sub-sections of Option 1 (although of course your vote will still be for Option 2). As if Option 1 gets the majority of support, I would still like to get maximum feedback from all the players on the sub-sections of Option 1 so that I can hopefully make a decision that reflects the wishes of the majority of the players should Option 1 get the majority of support. If Option 2 gets the majority of votes, then I will contact all the players again with a set of possible conditions for a concession victory.

If you do not wish to vote for either Option 1 or 2 then that is fine. You can also provide your own feedback on an alternative Option as well if you wish. As like I said, I will try to take everything into consideration before making a final decision.


And once again, a final reminder to VOTE BY PM TO ME ONLY.

"Thank You" for you time in reading this.

[Calahan]

@ All

Quick update on the voting. I've had around ~50% of replies so far, and the voting seems to be going heavily towards Option 1. I'll give it another day or two to see if anyone else wants to vote before I start finalising what the new victory conditions will be.

[Calahan]

@ All

Most of the votes have now come in, or at least enough for me not to wait anymore. The majority of players voted for Option 1. (7 voted for Option 1. 3 Abstains. 1 for Option 2).

In the sub-sections....

For the number of capitals required, 1c came out ahead of 1b by 4 votes to 2 (there were a lot of abstains)

For the "holding the capitals" sub-section, 1z came out ahead of 1y by 3 votes to 1 (again, a lot of abstains or gave no preference)


So from turn 59 onwards the victory conditions for this game will be

Capture 12 capitals and hold them for three consecutive turns.

(ie. If you own 12 capitals on the start of turn 100, you must own them at the start of turn 101 and 102 as well to claim the win.)

Important note here is that you must provide the turn files for each turn you held the capitals for to claim the win (so turn 100, 101 and 102 in the above example). As otherwise I can not 100% validate that you held the capitals for the required number of turns and consecutive duration (although it'll probably be easy to tell if you lost one on the middle turn)

(I'll track Executor down shortly and get him to update the OP with the new victory conditions)

[Calahan]

It seems Turn 59 was a double header on the elimination front, as both Helheim and Ulm will now only appear in tales of yore. Helheim was played by "rotarr" and Ulm by "Drog the Destroyer"

My thanks for playing goes to you both, and of course for fighting until the end. Both are greatly appreciated by admins and players :)

[rotarr]

It's been a fun game for me. I have to thank Baalz for his excellent Helheim guide which I used to good effect for this game (let's hope he wasn't the one who eliminated me though). Unfortunately I wasn't really prepared for the tactics of the person who eliminated me; at least I learned something useful there ;)

[ghoul31]

my troops aren't moving where I tell them to move. They just sit there and get slaughtered. I guess there is some movement rules that I don't know about.

It kind of sucks to throw away 5 months work on some movement errors.


I guess I'll just never try to ever move more than one province at at time from now on.

[Drog the Destroyer]

Thanks for the game. To sum my game up, a lack of indy scouts made me pick a fight based on chance instead of fact to keep up momentum. Of course my target was configured as I had feared and not as I had hoped, forcing me on the defensive burning through gems for early summons to try and stay in the game. After that it was just a matter of time before I got eliminated.

Special thanks for a great job admining the game.

[ghoul31]

Ok, I figured out what was happening, He would teleport a SC into the province he was moving his army into. Since the SC took the province in the magic phase , my troops that were 2 provinces away couldn't move there. So only part of my army would move there and get slaughtered every turn.

lesson learned I guess
.

[Baalz]

Not interested in even hearing a reply much less a justification, but I just want to point out that this sort of chatter at this point in the game (when most people have extensive scouting in place) can pretty clearly identify what nation you're playing. With the considerable efforts our selfless coordinator has gone to in preserving anonymity just keep that in mind.

[Calahan]

@ All

Apologies for the delays to the current turn (turn 64). A player is currently having some computer problems, which I am hopeful will be solved soon, but the exact situation isn't 100% clear to me to give any sort of definite timeframe on the problem being resolved.

I know delays are often unwanted, but sometimes problems suddenly occur that can't be helped by the player. And when this does happen, I don't like the thought of a player having all the time and effort invested in a game written off due to no fault of their own, and forcing them to have a critical stale, or a forced sub turn (with the high danger of the sub playing a game-changingly bad turn). And especially not at this late stage of the game.

But I am aware of the number, and the length of, the delays so far this turn, and I will try and find a solution if the source of the problem doesn't seem to be resolving any time soon. Although I would be thankful for everyone's patience and understanding during this time. Thank you.

----------------------
Not interested in even hearing a reply much less a justification, but I just want to point out that this sort of chatter at this point in the game (when most people have extensive scouting in place) can pretty clearly identify what nation you're playing. With the considerable efforts our selfless coordinator has gone to in preserving anonymity just keep that in mind.
Yes, thank you for this Baalz. As it allows me to take the opportunity to remind everyone to be very careful what they post in the game thread. As the best thread post any of you can make is no thread post at all. I think this has been a very good RAND game so far with regards keeping those ID's secret (at least compared to some I've played in, where id-keeping has been less than satisfactory), and I'd hate to see that change at this late stage of the game :(

So please can I ask again for players to be very careful what you post on this thread (or any thread). If you have a problem, then please PM me. If there is something you feel you must post on this thread, then please PM it to me and I'll post it for you anonymously. But please can you do all you can to safeguard your nation id. Not only for yourself, but also for the enjoyment of the other players in the game. As being a regular RAND player myself, there is nothing I hate seeing more than a player giving their secret id away with thoughtless thread posts, as it has always greatly diminished my enjoyment of that game as a result.

[Calahan]

@ All

I've been informed that Niefelhein were turned AI on turn 69. Which really is a great shame seeing as how the game has gone 69 turns without the AI appearing, as this now loses us our perfect record :(

And it's also a double shame, since to my knowledge it's also the first time one of the rules of the game has been broken :( :(


3. There is to be no turning AI by any player at any point in the game.

This is a golden set-in-stone rule for games I admin. I do not care who you are, or who you think you are. You could be the God of this community, or the God of this world for all I care. It is I and I alone who will decide when and if any nation gets turned AI in this game. Nobody else, and I mean absolutely nobody else, gets to decide whether or not a nation gets turned AI.


But from some of the PM's I've received, it seems it will come as no surprise to some of you to learn that Nief was played by Ghoul

[ghoul31]

Sorry.I forgot about that rule. I only had 2 provinces , and no army, but A rule is a rule.

And I shouldn't have talked about that movement problem either. But when you whole army is being wiped out because of something you don't understand, and you aren't allowed to talk about it, its rather frustrating.

[Calahan]

@ All

It has been brought to my attention that the rules of the game were broken this turn by R'lyeh, as they cast the Arcane Nexus, which is one of the banned globals. The following is taken from the OP.

Banned spells: Burden of Time, Arcane Nexus, Astral Corruption, Forge of the Ancients (Edit - Wrote acronyms in full to avoid any possible confusion)

In the process of casting this, the Arcane Nexus also overcast another players global, meaning that a rollback is the only real solution to the problem. (as while simply killing the caster this turn would get rid of the Arcane Nexus, it wouldn't bring the previous global back). But before this rollback is undertaken, I will pause the game until I hear (private) feedback on whether or not to continue the game, or end it here by concession.

As due to a request by the Abysia player, previous correspondence I've received recently from a few other players, and based on the current game standings as I know them, I am now asking players for their view on whether or not to concede to Abysia this turn.

So please can everyone PM me their thoughts on whether to concede the game to Abysia or not. (DO NOT POST REPLIES IN THE THREAD)


Edit - I will also be removing the R'lyeh player from of the game as per my usual no leniency policy on players who break the rules (even though this wasn't a case of breaking a rule specific to the RAND element of the game, other factors dictate that removal is required in this particular case)

[Ossa]

Nothing to read here...

[Calahan]

@ All

I think I've had replies and votes from everyone now, and the game picture and opinions is clear enough for me to be able to declare Abysia the winner.

Just about everyone voted to concede, and nobody voted against conceding to Abysia (an abstain was the closest), nor gave a strong impression of a desire to continue the game. Two players said they were happy to concede, but were also happy to fight on if the game continued (but that's still a concession at the end of the day).

So I hereby declare Abysia the winner, and with it, congratulations to Baalz as the Abysia player.


Here is the full player / nation list.

1. Mictlan - Executor
2. Kailasa - Saros
3. C'tis - Hylobius
4. Fomoria - Originally zultor. (Cthulhudreams took over turn 50, and Amhazair took over from him turn 67.)
5. Helheim - rotarr
6. TNN - Ragnoff
7. Niefelheim - Ghoul
8. Sauro - Grudgebringer (Maerlande played the last turn or two)
9. Arco - Herode
10. Atlantis - Marmaduke
11. TC - Originally Fantomen. (don_pablo took over ~ turn 35)
12. Ulm - Drog the Destroyer
13. Hinnom - Happyfungi
14. Pangaea - Isokron
15. R'yleh - Ossa
16. Ermor - Aethyr
17. Yomi - Originally Zeldor. (Mockingbird took over turn 50)
18. Abysia - Baalz


My thanks goes to the players, and in particular the invaluable subs who helped keep the game running.

Not sure there's much else needed from me here, plus a bit short on time right now to babble. If anyone wants to keep the game alive for any reason then please let me know. I have extended the current turn another 96 hours so that nobody gets any more turns or reminders, and I will take the game down on Monday if nobody wants to keep it going.

[ghoul31]

Thats the problem with anonymous games. You can't coordinate attacks on the person in the lead.

[Baalz]

Thats the problem with anonymous games. You can't coordinate attacks on the person in the lead.

That's the whole point silly. Dogpiles ruin the game IMO.

Anyway, thanks for the great gae everybody. Every war was well fought and everybody pretty much stuck stuff out. What more could you ask? :)

[rotarr]

Congrats Baalz

So are you going to write that guide on EA Abysia now? ;)

[Baalz]

Yeah, as Rotarr mentions I'm working on an AAR/Strat guide based on this game if anybody is interested. A hard drive crash this week cost me a good bit of work that'd I'd done, but I'm gonna try to redo it and publish this game from my perspective later this week.

[Amhazair]

Not too much post-game chatter for this one it seems. I don't really have very much too add since I joined about a dozen turns ago into a really poor Fomoria position. I found the grand total of 1! hammer, barely any boosters or thug/SC gear for my kings and a horribly incompletely site-searched territory, even in national paths. (income in earth and nature was a grand total of 2 each. :) )

After building up the best I could and establishing that Abysia looked like running away with the game with on opposition (for which I had to buy scouts first, since that's apparently an optional luxury too...) I decided to try and go all out to attack Abysia, hoping to take enough provinces to tempt the other nations into joining my attack. After which I somehow managed to send in an incomplete turn and only some conventional forces on the borders went through with their attack while the Kings remained ensconced in their cozy castles. :doh: The next - and last - turn showed that those incompletely geared Kings I had assembled only had a roughly even chance to actually defeat the massive PD Abysia had built, so probably wouldn't have mattered much anyway though.

I'd say: Good Game, Baalz, although I can only assume that to be true since I really only witnessed the result and not the journey itself. :)

[Baalz]

Yeah, I had Strand of Arcane Power up for 20-ish turns which found (guess) 30-ish sites. Without score graphs being on it was not obvious at all what a massive gem income I had - at the point Fomoria attacked I had pretty much 40+ gems of each type coming in and over 100 blood slaves each turn. I had empowered a couple wraith lords and a vamp count to be extremely nasty in my really strong dominion, but didn't get to put them to too much use before the game ended. The first one I got though (and only one at the time) did drop the hammer on Kailasa though. As I mentioned I'm putting together a very detailed AAR/guide with all the specifics of this one from my perspective.

[Mojo the Avenger]

Sorry to necro an old post, but I'm extremely interested in this. It appears Baalz hasn't posted since late April though. Does anyone know if he's coming back, or was his hometown attacked by barbarians?

[Ossa]

Devored by winemen probably. Or a blight happened... or Bogus attacked him in his home.