View Full Version : New Kinda Noob game Starting
Ragnars Wolves
November 5th, 2010, 04:36 PM
OPEN...WE HAVE JUST DECIDED TO ADD 1 MORE NATION, OCEANIA, any Noob with 7 or less games is welcome to join. just leave your name or PM me.
We have had a number of Noob games started and I have seen a lot of familiar faces in each ot them. So here we are, not really Noobs, but certainly not vets or even close to it.
I saw a game that WAS for vets that looked like fun and thought I would throw it out there and see if there was any interest.
This is for those with around 4 to 7 games under their belt.
The name of the game will be EA Weak Nations 8 players Cbm 1.6 and edm 1.1 on. Map to be determined. If you can't make your nation work, you are expected to fight to the end anyway.
Here is the list of Nations that we are allowed to play,
Abysia
Arco
Argatha
C'tis
Kailasa
Marverni
Ulm
Yomi
These are the same nations used in the vet game so I assume they know best. There is some that think that NO ONE may enter the water for any reason as there are no water nations and Argatha would get a big advantage.
First come first choice
1. Ragnars wolves Abysia (first time, shouldn't last long)
2. Zultor C;tis
3. Hylobius Ulm
4. Mockingbird Marverni
5. Attackdrone Argatha
6. Groundworm Arco
7. finalgenisis Yomi
8. Kobal2 Kailasa
9.
Anything else that sounds fun is up for discussion!!:D
zultor
November 5th, 2010, 06:32 PM
I'm up for another game so I'll join playing C'tis.
Ragnars Wolves
November 5th, 2010, 06:42 PM
Good, at least you get to play the nation you want this time!!
Hylobius
November 5th, 2010, 06:46 PM
I'll take Ulm please.
mockingbird
November 5th, 2010, 06:54 PM
I like the weak nations idea. Since I'm insane enough to enter another game, I'll take a shot at Marverni, if it is still open.
attackdrone
November 5th, 2010, 07:19 PM
I would like to give this a shot as Agartha. I have never played them in any age and they seem interesting.
Perhaps a map with small amounts of water would be best? Agartha being banned from entering the water makes them fairly unworkable, but with no other water nations in the game we should avoid maps with significant amounts of water provinces.
Ragnars Wolves
November 5th, 2010, 07:49 PM
I agree with attackdrone about the water.
I am sure we can find a map with the right amount of water to even the score OR we can just limit the amount of Water provinces on a map if we find one everyone wants to play....
So the short answer is you will be OK!!:up:
Finalgenesis
November 6th, 2010, 12:54 AM
Yomi, looking good
Groundworm
November 6th, 2010, 03:43 AM
I hadn't been intending to join another game, but this does sound like a particularly interesting mix- I love the idea of semi-noobs playing weak nations. So I guess I'm in.
I'll take Arcoscephale.
Kobal2
November 6th, 2010, 08:43 AM
What the hell. I'll take Hinnom.
What ?
Oh, all right. Pencil me in as Kailasa then. My invincible markata rush should make this game a short one.
Ragnars Wolves
November 6th, 2010, 01:48 PM
Looks like we have our group....I need to look for a map, any suggestions would be helpful.
Do we want some room to expand a little since we are playing nations we don't normally play and need to get used to, OR do we want this to be a frenzy tupe of game?
Personaly, I would like a medium map since I have NO idea what the heck I am doing with this nation.
I am shooting for the middle of the week as a start date. If anyone will be out of town or has a reason to put it off till the weekend let me know.
I am going to ask Groundworm to be CO-Admin so nothing will fall thru the cracks. While we will get together for important decisions, any delays, extensions stc either of us can make. This way I am sure one of us or both) will look at the forum a couple of times a day and of course you can PM us if need be.
Any suggestions or questions please ask.
One has come in.... Argatha, to be effective in expansion needs water, he doesn't want free run of all the seas, but a finite number I think will fill the bill. I just need help in the finite number , having never played Argatha before,
Kobal2
November 6th, 2010, 02:25 PM
I'd suggest Land of Legends (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Land_of_Legends) as a map. With 8 land nations, we'd get ~16 provinces each, Agartha would have no trouble getting its feet wet, and the map has an interesting gimmick: the central island has more magical sites than average, so getting in there nets you a) more magical gems and b) a dogpile.
ETA: although there's probably too much water in there if Agartha has free and unrestricted reign. Either we deal with it organically (by dogpiling Agartha), or by adding a 9th player as Oceania (a weak nation if I ever saw one), or, y'know, pick another map :}
Groundworm
November 6th, 2010, 02:30 PM
I have been wanting to try Land of Legends for awhile. Seconded as map choice.
attackdrone
November 6th, 2010, 04:24 PM
Land of Legends is one of my favorite maps. We could edit the map to make sea provinces poorer, there's a flag "Small Province" which reduces the number of inhabitants in a province, decreasing resources and income.
Another option is editing the map to reduce the number of sea provinces in total, 9 instead of 18 perhaps (each one larger). I'd be willing to do either, since I'm playing as Agartha, I'll just need to fire up my rusty modding skills.
The second option is preferable, because the first option does not reduce the number of magic sites in the sea.
Edit: I have the graphics done, I just need to recalculate the neighbors. Bleh I hope there's a way to not have to do this by hand.
attackdrone
November 6th, 2010, 05:32 PM
I'm voting for the small provinces flag option. Redoing the Province IDs and adjacency information is... tedious at best. If I remove provinces then I'll need to go through the entire province list and redo adjacency and terrain information which could take a while.
Also, reducing the number of sea provinces will leave each remaining province with way too many adjacent land provinces to be reasonable. It's pretty hideous!
Or we can add Oceania! They're pretty weak especially with no clams available in CBM.
Ragnars Wolves
November 6th, 2010, 05:57 PM
Hmmmmm, never thought I was opening that can of worms.
Sea provinces....we can just say Argatha can take so many (insert figure) sea provinces and can't change them around so they can 'mine' them. What they take is what they get and they better hang on to those.
Will the island in the middle be a game breaker for the person who gets it? What if we made that islan un-nappable...in other words it is like king of the hill and you can take it and hold it as long as you want, naps do NOT include that island (I kinda like that)
I can post for Oceania if you want.
I am more worried about preset starting positions (and have NO modding skills) than anything.
This is ALL of ours game, so while I may take the cvote, as long as we stick to the general premise I am game for anything that will make it better and more fun.
Last thing, I noticed in the vet game it said "NO hall of fame entry points) which I suppose that if you win this because of the nations involved you can't put your name on the wall.
I am inclined to think that may be fine for them but if I WIN this thing wirh Abysia (which I have never plaed before or even read a guide about), AND we are all NEW....I wanna put my name on the wall!! (Course I am like a 100 to 1 longshot, but a guy can dream). Modders...tell me what you can and can not do along with do you want to do it.
Last thing...thanks for the feedback!!
I will post for Oceania in the OP and in the forum and see if there is a taker either tonight or tomorrow.:up:
Ragnars Wolves
November 6th, 2010, 06:06 PM
I don't know how to change the Heading and get the word starting out of there
attackdrone
November 7th, 2010, 12:08 AM
Also, with Oceania in the game we should ensure they do not start in one of the sea provinces which is only adjacent to two others (or the horrible tiny corner sea) as this would be crippling. This can easily be done by adding a "No Start" flag to the provinces in question.
Likewise most (though not all) of the map edge provinces should be flagged as "No Start." A capital adjacent to only two other provinces would cause me to despair. Personally I would recommend balancing out exactly as many available starting provinces as the number of players to ensure even distribution throughout the map.
This would be trivial to do.
As for the center island - I suspect it will be split between several players.
Finalgenesis
November 7th, 2010, 01:38 AM
Corresponding the center island provinces can have the "many sites" flag taken out to make fixed start positioning much easier.
attackdrone
November 7th, 2010, 03:33 AM
With three routes to the center island, the best I can do is place 6 of 8 land nations equally close to the ports. The other two start positions will be inferior. Therefore, I second the call to modify the map to remove the center island's "Many Sites" status.
Kobal2
November 7th, 2010, 04:04 AM
I'm ambivalent. On the one hand, it removes the whole gimmick of the map, and starting on the island is a tough proposition without the gem boost to fend off 3+ opponents at once. On the other hand, I really have no idea how much of a difference "Many Sites" make, or whether it would shift the balance the other way round and make the central nation(s) roll over everyone else easily.
attackdrone
November 7th, 2010, 04:16 AM
Normally, each player would have two land neighbors, plus one more if they are one of the players on the island.
X-X-X
|.....|
X....X
|.....|
X-X-X
Opening up the island as a start position for two people results in each player having three land neighbors (the usual two plus one on the island) with each island player having three neighbors as well.
X-\../-X
|...X...|
X-..|.-X
|...X...|
X_/.\_X
The second diagram is not completely correct, but it is fairly close.
mscfish
November 7th, 2010, 05:55 AM
I'd like to join as OCE.
:)
attackdrone
November 7th, 2010, 05:11 PM
I have the map 98% done, so I just need to double check for errors and make sure all of the starting positions are balanced.
The changes:
A: The center island no longer has the "Many Sites" modifier.
B: Eight land and one sea starting position have been added.
C: It is unlikely that the island player will take the entire island at the start and become neighbors with six players, they'll likely have 3-4 neighbors. But if they do extremely well, they get 6 neighbors as a reward!
My criteria for the starting positions are as follows:
A: Each start has at least 4 territories between it and another starting position (Excluding the water start).
B: Each start is adjacent to at least four territories, with the following ratio:
4 adj. territories = 2 farmland + 2 forest/mountain
5 adj. territories = 1 farmland + whatever else
6 adj. territories = does not need to be adjacent to farmland.
(The water start gets four adjacent sea territories, no tiny corner sea for you!)
Edit: Here it is, the map uses the regular image file. Land of Legends: Multiplayer (http://www.mediafire.com/file/463c12nhins91u1/landoflegends_mp.rar). Two lucky players start with only three territories between them, but each has their capital adjacent to a large farmland province. Seems all right to me.
attackdrone
November 7th, 2010, 08:10 PM
CBM 1.71 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46568) is released! This merges in the EDM among others (Armor Rebalance being a major one).
Buffs to EA Agartha (better provincial defense, slight heat preference), EA Arcoscephale + Abysia (Armor Rebalance means their troops have much less encumbrance, Arcos. Myrmidons are now 7 instead of 10, and Abysia sacred troops are 4 instead of 6 for example), and EA Ulm (their shamans now have a chance to get Astral magic).
Sounds good to me!
Edit: Other highlights:
-Sanguine Dousing Rods, Jade Knives, and Dwarven Hammers are now unique.
-Ring of Earth added: E4Const6, Misc slot, +1 Earth.
-Titans are less useless
Finalgenesis
November 7th, 2010, 09:37 PM
Thanks to attackdrone for the ichy map stuff, the criteria looks good.
I'd vote to stick with CBM 1.6 + EDM 1.1 for this game and wait for CBM 1.7 to shake out a bit more first, there seems to be fairly drastic changes. We could consider throwing in the armour revamp mod on top. Otherwise if folks want to try 1.7 I'd cringe but will go along (Oh Noz big changes! Panic!). Though Agartha for sure could use the very interesting auto-darkness buff on pd
On the other hand, more good news, I heard from qm in irc that a newer CBM 1.7 with heavy nation rebalancing is being worked on.
Ragnars Wolves
November 7th, 2010, 10:25 PM
GREAT JOB Attackdrone!!! The map sounds great... Question, will the starting sites be random or will they be preset? What I mean is I know they will be preset as far as the actual starting province. But, will they be random on who goes in those preset provinces?
I think we will stick with 1.6 until it is tested a little more and all the bugs shaken out. I know it helps a number of folks in here but I don't want to get 30 turns in and find a bug that makes it unplayable.
We have a person that wants to play Oceania. However, he has been around a couple of years and may be a little over our heads. What is the concensus of you guys on letting him play...
I told him NO as of the moment but could ask him agian if we want to.
You might want to PM Fingergenesis and ask about it and some other details.
When will the map be available AD?
attackdrone
November 7th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Will the starting sites be random or will they be preset?
I think we will stick with 1.6.
When will the map be available AD?
I: There are 8 land and 1 sea start, but it is random who gets assigned which province. What I did was simply set all provinces except those nine to be ineligible start positions (meaning this map cannot be played with more than 8+1 players). It'd be simple enough to change that again if needed.
II: 1.6cbm + 1.1edm sounds good to me!
III: The map is ready, and posted above. Here is another link.
Land of Legends MP (http://www.mediafire.com/?463c12nhins91u1)
We could consider throwing in the armour revamp mod on top.
I am not sure if the stand-alone Armor Revamp mod is compatible with 1.6cbm and 1.1edm. There might be unit or gear conflicts. This is likely why it was all merged together into a single mod for 1.71cbm.
Finalgenesis
November 7th, 2010, 11:24 PM
... If you can't make your nation work, you are expected to fight to the end anyway...
I'd like to emphasize the above with some extrapolations, please do correct me if it departs from what the host intends. I've seen hosts say the above in a few games, and ideally you fight tooth and nails to the end, however we all know this is unrealistic and is sometimes (often?) ignored by some, we ask that you at least:
Please have the courtesy of giving the players a headsup to any multiple stales, going Awol (multiple stales in a row) without a heads up is in bad taste, barring actual unforeseen circumstances where you are physically unable to post on the forum (alien invasion; meteor taking out your service provider; you were tied to your bed post and left to die; emergency taking you away from internet access...etc).
Real life can (and will) interfere with your dom 3, we're all cool with this and games are often generous with postponement or sub/AI at worst, what we're not cool with is going awol with zero communication. We all know awol in many circumstances gives undue advantage to certain players and in general lowers the quality of a MP game, a heads up so that the host can delay/find sub or switch to AI goes a long way to maintaining the game quality and enjoyment of its players.
If you find others you play with in a MP game to be beneath your consideration and the 30 seconds it takes to post a heads up, you do not belong in this game (or any MP game for that matter).
We otherwise welcome anyone who can commit to the courtesy of informing the participants when they can no longer play (or require a delay) for whatever reason, hell even if you just don't feel like playing anymore.
GrudgeBringer
November 7th, 2010, 11:49 PM
I think that about sums it up for the most part...
However, what I was trying to say is this, We are all new and do NOT have all the answers. One moment we are expanding smoothly and the next you run into Hinnom and you are retreating in a rush. You feel somewhat dejected that everything didn't continue to work out like you wanted.
I am not expecting you to spend a long time on your turn when your getting a azzz whoopin or are hemmed in and can't do much.
I DO expect you to continue playing (unless of an emergency, and trust me if you have a number of 'emergencies'in different games, folks will remember you)and try and put up whatever fight you can to slow down the opponent or make your small empire as hard to take as possible (hell, build a fort in every province etc).
It is just a game and real life is more important, but you do make a commitment to 6 to 12 other people who are giving their time to go as long as you can. IF you just want out, man up and say it...we can understand that as we have all felt that way and their are a number of vets who 'specialize' in taking unwinnable nations and play them as a kami-kazi, just to make your life MISERABLE (gotta love em!!) and we will try and get one.
NEVER put a password on your game PLEASE, as it really does ruin it for eeveryone else.
That is all I can think of and this isn't directed at anyone as most of us have played together since we have started. I just wanted to have my say...lol:up:
BTW, I am up at my folks (GrudgeBringer) for dinner and am using his comp..sorry I forget sometimes it doesn't show up as me.
Ragnars
Groundworm
November 8th, 2010, 03:49 AM
Thank you for the map mods, attackdrone- they sound fantastic!
I think someone who has been playing MP Dominions for years is a little above our heads. I'm sure we'll find someone else to play Oceania, and if not then we can just play with 8.
I'm interested in the idea of CBM 1.7, but those changes do sound drastic. Perhaps holding off for now is the better part of valor.
Kobal2
November 8th, 2010, 03:59 AM
Yeah, I'm not too keen on using the new CBM either. Armour Revamp changes a *lot* of things, and I'd rather not rush into an MP game on a mod I haven't had and won't have the time to play around with alone for a while to get a sense of what's what.
'sides, my monkeys already lost their clams, you want they should give up the hammers too ? :)
mockingbird
November 8th, 2010, 11:48 AM
Where can I get the .tga file for the map?
mockingbird
November 8th, 2010, 01:08 PM
Never mind, I found it. Google to the rescue!
Groundworm
November 8th, 2010, 07:30 PM
Still looking for one more player to take the role of Oceania. Any takers?
Ragnars Wolves
November 8th, 2010, 07:39 PM
only the one...
BTW I D/L Attackdrones map file....it is a RAR file (which I have no idea what that means) I just dropped it in the file with Land of Legends in my Dom map file. Is that good enough? (I REALLY do not know much about computers)
mockingbird
November 8th, 2010, 08:17 PM
Ragnars: you need to unpack the .rar file (I don't know what kind of system you are using, but most modern systems will activate some kind of unpacking utility automatically if you click (or double click) on a compressed file.
Once it's unpacked you should have a Landoflegends folder which will contain a .map file. The .map file should be placed in your dominions map directory.
Hopefully that was clear enough. :p
Ragnars Wolves
November 8th, 2010, 09:21 PM
I did double click on it and it asked me what I wanted to open it with (basically). When theat happens I never know what to do as the list they supply is pretty lame. So I just stuck it in my maps folder along with the Land of Legends map files.
If this doesn't work is there ay way it can be A ZIP FILE (Lol, I know how to hit extract):sick:
Finalgenesis
November 8th, 2010, 09:35 PM
Or bite the bullet and grab winrar (assuming you use windows or its simulators), you may run into more rar in the future:
http://download.cnet.com/WinRAR-64-bit/3000-2250_4-10965579.html?tag=mncol;2
Kobal2
November 8th, 2010, 09:46 PM
I don't think Windows extracts .RARs natively, only .ZIP. Look up 7-zip, it's free, tiny and super easy to use. Once it's installed, all you need to do is right-click on the file and select "Extract here".
If you're on a Mac, Google suggests RARExpander, but I'm Mac illiterate so I don't know how practical it is.
Xanatos
November 8th, 2010, 10:13 PM
I might be pushing the limit, I dont remember how many games Ive been in, but if its more then 7, its not by much, I would love to join the game if you guys will have me, and you can pick whichever nation I play, I need to learn how to play them all.
I'll take Oceania if thats the only one left open, I wouldn't mind trying fishmen
attackdrone
November 8th, 2010, 11:19 PM
Enjoy the fishes! Oceania would probably be the best choice for someone with slightly more experience anyways...
Looks like we have our ninth!
GrudgeBringer
November 9th, 2010, 12:29 AM
I think you guys put this together real well with the choice of nations.
The only other nation if you wanted to add a player I think would be Tir-A-Nog.
But nine is a really good number, good luck!!
Ragnars Wolves
November 9th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Sounds good to me!!!
Groundworm
November 9th, 2010, 01:06 AM
Xanatos. Awesome. Even if you are slightly more experienced than the rest of us, you're welcome just for the name. :) Did you take it from Gargoyles, perchance?
So, now that we have our nine, when are we aiming to begin? (I always get excited about the start of a new game)
Xanatos
November 9th, 2010, 03:59 AM
Gargoyles, yes, and also a star wars jedi apprentice book=p
Ragnars Wolves
November 9th, 2010, 09:31 AM
attackdrone has helped this computer challenged person get the map installed so we are ready to roll.........
I will get the game up sometime this afternoon, OFFICIAL NAME (I shortened it) Kindanew.
As some of this have been thru this recently...NO PASSWORDS OF ANY KIND PLEASE!!!
Groundworm and I will be Co-admins so that someone will always go by the site a couple of times a day or you can PM me. Groundworm is doing this as a favor to me as he is admin in a couple of other games. He will drop by the site in case of extensions etc but PM ME if there are problems.
OK Get ready to roll guys!! If there are any last minute questions, now would probably be a good time to ask.
Xanatos
November 9th, 2010, 03:53 PM
this is on llamaserver?
Ragnars Wolves
November 9th, 2010, 04:26 PM
Yes it is on llamaserver
Ragnars Wolves
November 9th, 2010, 07:52 PM
I just went in and was setting up a game (for the first time) and the Cbm 1.6 comes with so many different things I am not sure which to use. The one I was going to use is CBM 1.6 indy commanders only. Any ideas? I am also going to put this on the forum and send to Groundworm as he has started a game.
Also, do I set a master Password?:confused:
Finalgenesis
November 9th, 2010, 09:09 PM
I think admin password would be advisable, since you have a co-admin there's no problem, or you can pass the torch (password) to a player if you can't admin.
Not sure on the settings as I have yet to host a game, I did take a look and promtly got confused too @.@
attackdrone
November 9th, 2010, 10:57 PM
The base CBM mod should be listed as 'Conceptual Balance 1.6' complete, though 'Worthy Heroes 1.91 + CBM 1.6' should also work well. The "Indy Commanders Only" variant removes recruitable independent troops from all provinces, leaving only the commanders. This forces nations to rely on national troops (and is mainly intended as an AI balancing mod if i recall correctly).
Whichever CBM 1.6 variant you use, as long as the initial pretender design is unchanged, and each player has CBM 1.6 installed and active when they design their pretenders, everything should be fine.
Ragnars Wolves
November 9th, 2010, 11:30 PM
OK, someone that is familiar with starting a game needs to get this one started....I have got everything but the Damn map, which says it is not valid when I D/l it. (yes, it is the one that was just changed).
I will still admin or someone else can but lets get this thing started....any takers....
attackdrone
November 10th, 2010, 12:12 AM
The game is up, I will PM the password to the admins. Submit your pretenders!
Edit: I only uploaded a modified .map file, you'll still need the .tga file from the original Land of Legends, the exact same graphics are used. Attention everyone: Make sure you have downloaded and installed at the very least:
Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43949) (for pretender design)
Land of Legends Map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43144)
Everything else (modified .map file and edm1.1) can be handled server-side, though feel free to download those as well if you like.
Ragnars Wolves
November 10th, 2010, 01:07 AM
A GREAT BIG thanks to attackdeone!!!!!!!!!!
We are up and running....
I suggest 24 hours to do your pretenders and test them on th e map and first turn will be sent out Thursday morning!!
maybe if we are all checking our comps, we can get in 5 or 7 turns this weekend!!
Xanatos
November 10th, 2010, 02:58 AM
im not sure on master password, ask him - but if your going to use CBM use the whole thing, I don't know what indie commanders only means, but may as well go full CBM or vanilla.
attackdrone
November 10th, 2010, 03:07 AM
im not sure on master password, ask him - but if your going to use CBM use the whole thing, I don't know what indie commanders only means, but may as well go full CBM or vanilla.
I set the game up with CBM 1.6 and EDM 1.1 as posted in the original thread by Ragnars Wolves. Request granted!
Xanatos
November 10th, 2010, 06:02 PM
Embarrassing - I have my pretender designed now, but I forgot what to do with him=p
Also, what is the name of our game on the llamaserver?
attackdrone
November 10th, 2010, 06:20 PM
Send an email to 'pretenders[at]llamaserver.net' with the pretender as an attached file. It should be located in your dominions3/savedgames/newlords folder and be named 'early_oceania_0.2h' or something along those lines.
Make sure you include the game name 'Kindanew' in the subject of your email.
Once you, Zultor, and Ragnars Wolves send in your pretenders the game will start. (The game is set to start as soon as everyone has sent their pretenders in).
Xanatos
November 10th, 2010, 06:40 PM
all done.
Groundworm
November 10th, 2010, 06:45 PM
No offense intended, Xanatos, but I'm not sure you got it quite right- llamaserver isn't showing a pretender from Oceania as having been submitted. Did you get a confirmation email from llamaserver saying it received your pretender file?
Xanatos
November 10th, 2010, 06:54 PM
I did not, however, I also see no game under llamaserver as awaiting pretenders by that name, are we sure that is the name?
correction, i see it now, ill try re-sending the file.
recorrection - apparently I did get an email saying it was received.
GrudgeBringer
November 11th, 2010, 12:49 AM
Good luck everyone, this is a preety neat concept and I will be watching it to see how it works.
Ragnars Wolves
November 11th, 2010, 01:10 AM
Well gentlemen we have a problem....
Someone has hijacked the game....I wanted to be the last person to send in my pretender so the game would start late tonight (weds) and we would all have a turn in the morning.
HOWEVER, when I went to send it in it would not accept it and on further investigation not only has someone sent it (my pretender for Abysia) but a turn as well.
I have turned off the quickhost and I need whoever is Abysia in this game to either state it or PM me.
I guess we have to start over (sorry attackdrone for all the work you put in to this and may have to come to the rescue agian.
I have heard of this happening with REALLY NEW players who don't realize you have to sign up...but in my own game:doh:
attackdrone
November 11th, 2010, 02:46 AM
Yeah, we'll need to start this over. Watch out for hijackers! Send me a PM when you're ready for me to start it again, I'll use the same admin password that I PM'd to you earlier.
Calahan
November 11th, 2010, 03:55 AM
FYI, you shouldn't need to re-create the game from scratch, as if the game is still on turn 1, there should* be an option to roll the game back to the 'waiting for Pretenders' stage, after which the admin can remove the rogue Pretender, allowing the correct player to upload theirs.
* I say should, since I can't 100% remember, and testing it requires being admin of a game on turn 1. Which none of my games are right now.
attackdrone
November 11th, 2010, 05:45 AM
Thanks for the tip, I've gone ahead and taken the liberty as I was he who volunteered to set the game up, and cleared out Abysia and restarted the game.
Only Ragnars Wolves will need to resubmit his pretender, everyone else is fine.
Ragnars Wolves
November 11th, 2010, 07:27 AM
Doing it now!! Thanks guys:D
Ragnars Wolves
November 11th, 2010, 07:41 AM
OK, Pretender received...
I set the game to start automatically, so we should be getting turn one any moment. Sorry for the screwup, I just never counted on a hijacker.
Ragnars Wolves
November 11th, 2010, 08:00 AM
My turn is in....THANKS attakdrone!!!
I have a question....are we all supposed to have a Farmland in our starting circle? I don't but that is Ok I am more resource intense than money. And I have a spot I like on the map.
AND, I will be expecting Tribute from all you FAKE pretenders!!! Just make the deposit into the First Bank of Abysia. (Take a day if you need it, you will find us VERY Easy to get along with!!:p
mockingbird
November 11th, 2010, 01:44 PM
I have received an initial turn file twice (two different emails). Is there any sort of technical problem?
Ragnars Wolves
November 11th, 2010, 01:56 PM
Read the posts before these...someone Hijacked the game and we had to more or less restart it. attackdrone would be the one to tell you which turn to use if it even matters. We deleted the hijacker and I got my pretender and turn in right away, so we should be in good shape. as far as the game goes.
Hylobius
November 11th, 2010, 02:06 PM
You need to use the most recently received file.
attackdrone
November 11th, 2010, 04:49 PM
I have a question....are we all supposed to have a Farmland in our starting circle? I don't but that is Ok I am more resource intense than money. And I have a spot I like on the map.
Two starts have an additional province adjacent to their capital instead of a farmland (to allow players to be spread more evenly throughout the map). I suppose this is good for Abysia!
Ragnars Wolves
November 11th, 2010, 06:15 PM
That would compensate for it ok, just wondered. Thanks:up:
mockingbird
November 12th, 2010, 01:50 PM
I am having problems with units that won't move where they should be able to.
If there are any experts reading this thread, I would welcome their assistance in figuring this out. I've never seen something like this in Dominions before.
This may impede my submission of turn 3 until I figure it out, since I can't expand if my units won't move.
Kobal2
November 12th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Are you sure there's an actual province connection between where the units are and where they "should be able to go" ? Sometimes provinces that look like they should connect don't. Hit the 8 key (or toggle province connections in Map Filters) to check that out.
attackdrone
November 12th, 2010, 05:23 PM
If there is a river, on this map only bridges allow crossing of rivers. There is a very slight chance it is a bug, if so try moving to a different province instead.
On another note, this might be a short game for me! My entire army plus reinforcements died to a small number of independent archers, and there are two unrest causing events for me. I'll fight to the bitter end though.
Kobal2
November 12th, 2010, 07:38 PM
Yeah, noticed the sharp drop on the graph, I figured something like that had happened. Bummer. That said, there are none too many rush nations among us, and from the graphs I'd say only 3 SC gods are out there (4 if Yomi's pretender is a Cyclops or LoP waiting on some gear). It's not over for you yet.
That being said, expansion with EA Agartha is always a pain. Well, everything with EA Agartha is a pain :) but early expansion even more so. They say CBM made the stone hurlers very good once massed, but meh. I just can't get anything done with them or the rest of the dreck Agartha can recruit. Even the sacred giants can't hit the broad side of an aircraft carrier :/.
mockingbird
November 13th, 2010, 01:36 AM
I'm pretty sure the province connections are okay and that's not the source of the problem.
May I request a turn extension while I try to figure this out?
GrudgeBringer
November 13th, 2010, 01:54 AM
Ragnars said Extension granted....He will start with 24 hours. Let him know if you need more.
So you did hit 8 and there is a yellow line to the province you want to move to?
If not could be a bug but usually this isn't the kind of bug that comes from a modded game.
He should be home (he only lives about 1000 feet from me) and have it extended by now.
mockingbird
November 13th, 2010, 06:40 AM
I should stop being coy -- I have a flying SC pretender who as far as I can tell won't fly. It will only move to neighboring provinces.
I tested it with this map before and didn't have any problems, although I never ended up in this starting position before.
Finalgenesis
November 13th, 2010, 07:08 AM
This SC pretender isn't leading any troops who can't fly I presume? The *cough* can also spawn undead and sometimes they are automatically assigned to the summoner in some cases. Otherwise I know its happened to me before (very rarely, twice ever, thankfully nothing critical) where some of my orders are never carried in a MP game...
Ragnars Wolves
November 13th, 2010, 09:10 AM
It isn't a Turkey is it? Not good being a Turkey this close to Thanksgiving!!
Seriously, I had the problem in a SP game on one of Pasha's Maps. I REALLY REALLY hate to say this but I reloaded it making a new game and it worked fine.
Try everything you can think of and ask some people who are modders. I will extend if we have to, but with one getting his starting army knocked out and you having problems, I don't want this game to fall apart or get in it about 30 turns and have issues come up.
We (I don't even want to say it)may have to start over so everyone has a chance to finish this game in one way or another.
Most of us have started together and are learning from each other as we go. I don't want to leave anybody behind as I enjoy this group of personalities.
my only (:sick:) problem is for once I actually got a starting location I like (well, I knew that was too good to be true. Dang Dominion Gods are screwing with me, so I say to them:p
Guys, we are on turn 4...we could have this up and running again quicker than we had to do the rollbacks and we lived thru that. I must say his is the most resilient group of players you could ask for.:up:
Kobal2
November 13th, 2010, 01:18 PM
I got no problem with restarting if some players have issues with bugs, or if Agartha feels bummed out by his start. I'm really not competitive by nature (least not in the "f*** you I'm winning" sense of the word) and I wouldn't want to take advantage of bugs, or other players not having as much fun as I am.
Calahan
November 13th, 2010, 01:53 PM
I can take a look at the turn file if you like to see if I can work out why the Pretender can't move.
(@ mickingbird - I'm PM-ed you my email address for you to send the .trn file to if you do want me to take a look at it)
Finalgenesis
November 13th, 2010, 02:15 PM
Thank Cal, lets hope you can work this out =/
I'd prefer not having to restart, but will go with general consensus I suppose.
Ragnars Wolves
November 13th, 2010, 02:48 PM
Me too....
attackdrone
November 13th, 2010, 05:29 PM
I got no problem with restarting if some players have issues with bugs, or if Agartha feels bummed out by his start. I'm really not competitive by nature (least not in the "f*** you I'm winning" sense of the word) and I wouldn't want to take advantage of bugs, or other players not having as much fun as I am.
No way would I want to restart! So what if all the Pale Ones are dead and there is no money to be found in any of the rioting caverns? I'll make it work somehow.
Ragnars Wolves
November 14th, 2010, 03:54 AM
I want this game to be a stepping stone for all of us to the next level. I feel like we have all joined and been brought along at the same time, and I certainly am not going to let a bug screw this up at turn 4. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that attackdrone will gut it out, or Mockingbird would live with it.
But at turn four there is NO reason WHY they should have too.
If his Chicken (Lol, sorry couldn't help it) won't fly this turn I say we start over...and to make it fair to all, you have a taste of what you need, we will allow new pretenders to be sent in (if you want to).
I am going to extend the turn 24 hours and if Mockingbird gets lift off we will continue, if not we will start over. I just want to make sure whatever problem it is is fixed.
Sound good to everyone? I would like to hear from everyone with their opinions.
BTW, quickhost is still on aand I will be the last to send a pretender so you have time to let your feelings be known...honest opinions please....
Groundworm
November 14th, 2010, 02:33 PM
My start was not the greatest ever, so I certainly wouldn't object overly much to a restart.
My starting position was also somewhat better when the fake Abysia was in. :)
Hylobius
November 14th, 2010, 03:04 PM
If Mockingbird's position is bugged then we need to restart. I like the map, but it won't work well if one position is unplayable.
Ragnars Wolves
November 14th, 2010, 05:07 PM
Well, Mockingbird turned in his turn, so I guess he pretender is flying.
I just sent in my turn so we are about to get another and I have not heard from him to the contrary.
I will PM him bu tit looks like it is a go right now.
mockingbird
November 14th, 2010, 06:03 PM
Sorry for not responding sooner -- things have been kind of hectic. I figured out the pretender movement issue, so we are good to go. Thanks for your understanding and suggestions.
Ragnars Wolves
November 15th, 2010, 03:52 PM
I am giving C'tis (Zultor) a 6 hour extension as it seems the hosting time is almost upon us and he has not got his turn in....Hate to see someone stale on turn 6.
I check the forums but sometimes do NOT check llamaserver for who is in and time remaining. If you need an extension please PM or post here.
I can't promise if you don't post that you won't get a stale, and after the problems in Raw Recruits that a lot of us are in, no rollbacks for staling.
zultor
November 15th, 2010, 04:18 PM
Huh, sorry about that. I checked all my games before I went to bed last night and thought I was in the clear.
Oh well, thanks for looking out for me RW won't happen again.
Kobal2
November 15th, 2010, 04:49 PM
Whelp, seems someone has jumped Agartha in their period of weakness. Own up !
Ragnars Wolves
November 15th, 2010, 06:42 PM
Ain't me said the Amazon (sauro, in case you didn't know):eek:
attackdrone
November 16th, 2010, 03:04 AM
Whelp, seems someone has jumped Agartha in their period of weakness. Own up !
The independents jumped me first. Considering that my provincial defense has an attack of 8... even militia can beat them, and they did!
Yep, Agartha lost its army twice to tribal independents then had its capital provincial defense beaten by an opponent's militia mercenaries. Oh, Agartha! Truly they are a tragic race.
Edit: Yes, I have been using troglodytes to augment my tard-sloths. They did not work as well as I had hoped.
Xanatos
November 16th, 2010, 05:02 AM
Oceania wants no trouble with anyone=p leave the sea in peace, and she will leave you in peace.
Groundworm
November 16th, 2010, 10:29 AM
The independents jumped me first. Considering that my provincial defense has an attack of 8... even militia can beat them, and they did!
Yep, Agartha lost its army twice to tribal independents then had its capital provincial defense beaten by an opponent's militia mercenaries. Oh, Agartha! Truly they are a tragic race.
Edit: Yes, I have been using troglodytes to augment my tard-sloths. They did not work as well as I had hoped.
Oh, attackdrone, that's terrible! I had a game where I was plagued by misfortune to an incredible extent, but... your capital was overtaken by militia. I'm kind of snickering, but I'm also very sympathetic. I'm sorry your game went so badly. :(
Ragnars Wolves
November 16th, 2010, 02:58 PM
Geeez AD, I heard Argatha was somewhat challenged but not THAT challenged...
I appreciate you telling me this as I know now come hell or high water I will stay away from them. I'm kinda like Groundworm, sorry you had such bad luck...but better you than me.
Xanatos
November 16th, 2010, 03:29 PM
i suppose agartha needs an SC pretender to start off then, to keep that from happening.
mockingbird
November 16th, 2010, 04:06 PM
Or perhaps a bless (probably F4E9N4 at a minimum) and use the sacred giants and Oracle thugs.
attackdrone
November 16th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Or perhaps a bless (probably F4E9N4 at a minimum) and use the sacred giants and Oracle thugs.
Yeah I went with F4E4S4N4 as a blessing, to get my sacred units into reasonable attack/encumbrance range and open up nature and astral.
The issue is, you still need to be able to capture at least one province at the start to get resources. Agartha's best sacred units are 37 resources and 55 gold. Their other sacred units (the ones with an attack of 9) are 40 gold and 19 resources. They're armed with a spear of all things! Good luck getting a repel with an attack of 9.
Oh and Oracles are pretty sub-par thugs. Base (naked) encumbrance of 5, precision of 7, base attack of 9 and defense of 11 is not the best chassis for a thug (for the earth/water version, which is the best stats wise). Also, about half of them are old! It'd take an awful big blessing just to make them anywhere near the other giant nations and their recruitable thugs. Did I mention they are cold-blooded?
Ragnars Wolves
November 17th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Why are we on a 72 hour turn rate when we are on turn 9?:confused:
I didn't set it that way, any objection to setting it back to 24 Hours for a while?
zultor
November 17th, 2010, 02:34 PM
24 hours is fine with me but I don't think it has been set to 72 hours. I think there is an issue with the server not updating times correctly.
The next turn is scheduled to process in less than 24 hours unless you have already set it back ;)
Ragnars Wolves
November 17th, 2010, 07:24 PM
ahhhhh, thanks Nope, i'll just leave it alone and see what happens.
Xanatos
November 19th, 2010, 04:24 PM
i submitted my turn but still got a stale=(
zultor
November 19th, 2010, 09:10 PM
Did you get a response email from the server indicating a successful submission?
Xanatos
November 20th, 2010, 06:23 AM
I do not honestly recall, was a busy night, but I do know I sent it in.
Kobal2
November 24th, 2010, 07:58 AM
I can't believe this.
It's now turn 18. Each and every one of these turns I've pumped a Yaksha out of my capital. Guess how many of those got the on-paper 1 out of 4 S pick I'd really really like to get ASAP to start cranking matrices, crystal shields and the like ? None whatsoever. 18 Yakshas, a little over 25% chance each, and not one gets the S pick.
It's official : the RNG can lick my hairy monkey nuts.
Xanatos
November 24th, 2010, 05:29 PM
I am sad to announce that I am encountering an unexpected issue. I am traveling atm and accessing the game from various laptops via my external hard drive, but today (after 1 stale yesterday) I am unable to end the turn, i get the cant open file error and it will not work, and i will not be home until sunday
Kobal2
November 24th, 2010, 08:28 PM
Have you tried getting the turn re-sent by the server ?
Ragnars Wolves
November 25th, 2010, 09:45 AM
I really hate to extend the game 5 days at this point in the game, not knowing if you have tried to get a server resend (actually, I have to do that in 2 of my games EVERY turn:rolleyes:).
However, as it is Thanksgiving in the states I will give a 24 hour extension, and we will deal with the issue then.
Any input is appreciated.
Ragnars Wolves
November 26th, 2010, 04:24 PM
OK Xanatos,
I will extend this 24 more hours as you have got off to a bad start.
You asked for Sunday, so this will be the last extension and we will proceed.
Xanatos
November 29th, 2010, 04:55 AM
I am back now, I apologize for the delays, I didn't realize this would become an issue...I knew i would have access to the internet and my external HD the entire time, but that one computer was my primary access and wouldnt resolve the turn=/
is it still ready and waiting on me?
anticipatient
November 29th, 2010, 12:04 PM
Well I haven't played in a while, but I remember Agartha having quite a lot of potential in the right hands ;)
anticipatient
November 29th, 2010, 12:14 PM
I would have loved to play Oceania :D
Kobal2
November 29th, 2010, 01:23 PM
... You guys know what ? The flags of Oceania and Ulm are *really* similar.
Dammit.
Hylobius
November 29th, 2010, 04:43 PM
Yes, I had noticed that :D
Ulm
Finalgenesis
November 30th, 2010, 01:52 AM
Have hammers / E gems / D gems to trade for N gems.
Finalgenesis
December 1st, 2010, 08:51 AM
Requesting a 6 hours extension, won't make it home in time with the current schedule!
GrudgeBringer
December 1st, 2010, 09:00 AM
Done...
Kobal2
December 1st, 2010, 09:40 AM
Oh.
I guess even some monkey PD would have helped, huh ?
Xanatos
December 1st, 2010, 01:38 PM
So why am I not able to build clams?
Kobal2
December 1st, 2010, 02:02 PM
Because this is CBM 1.6, and in CBM clams are lvl8 artifacts (and thus unique. As in "clam" sans s).
Xanatos
December 1st, 2010, 02:05 PM
I thought this was vanilla?
Ragnars Wolves
December 1st, 2010, 04:36 PM
Nope...Vanilla has pretty much gone the way of the wild goose (for the most part).
LOL, bet that was a shock if you were counting on clamming:eek:
Kobal2
December 4th, 2010, 07:48 AM
Whelp, I'm dead. Well, to be fair I sorta knew I was dead from turn 1, what with all three of my neighbours having access to both sneaky archers and/or undead, i.e. Kailasa's huge glaring weaknesses. Which, in retrospect, I really should have seen Yomi coming and prepared for as soon as I saw their flag - but I was stupid enough to think an NAP with them was a huge bullet dodge, and was too focused on Ulm *not* agreeing to an NAP to really deal with Yomi.
Funny thing is, I was initially dead set on rushing Yomi - it's Ulmish saber rattling which led me to focus on dealing with him first.
But now Yomi's broke my back because I'm an idiot, and there's very little I can do to stop him, or even slow him down really. Since RL work is really starting to pile up, I humbly request to turn AI - I'm not going to learn anything more from this game.
Ragnars Wolves
December 4th, 2010, 11:35 AM
From the score charts on llamaserver you still have 17 provinces and 4 or 5 forts.
That is more than I have ever had in this game.
I wish you wouldn't ask to be put on AI and unbalance the game with that many provinces and just hand that many to 1 or 2 nations.
I know real life can get in the way, but you are making it sound like you think you can not beat Yomi so you quit. We all agreed to fight it out to the last man.
Think about it and post your thoughts please.:(
mockingbird
December 4th, 2010, 02:41 PM
Fighting from a losing position is actually often more instructive than from a winning position.
To that I'll add that folding when the game is turning against you will only encourage other players to attack you in other games, creating a vicious downward spiral.
On the other hand, fighting it out to the bitter end means that people know a victory against you will not come easily, encouraging them in the future to look for easier pickings elsewhere.
It can be quite satisfying to outlast your attackers. I never had a chance in Greenshoots, but I definitely enjoyed seeing C'tis ousted before me after they attacked on turn 5.
Finalgenesis
December 4th, 2010, 03:25 PM
I agree with mockingbird.
You only lost an army of sacreds composing of less then a third of your total forces from the charts, but still retain most of your cap mage thugs which are a lot more important and representative of a nation's power.
It's really not uncommon to lose armies (god knows I get my armies popped often enough and take chart dives like crazy). You've recovered much of the raided provinces and popped quite a few raiding parties and putting up stiff resistance, I can't honestly see the point you're at as being the point to drop a game due to hopelessness =/ I've gotten to 3 provinces before and made rebounds after that, and even if not hanging in there builds a rep for being tough (and not ...).
Kobal2
December 4th, 2010, 04:35 PM
From the score charts on llamaserver you still have 17 provinces and 4 or 5 forts.
Yep, but they're all at 50+ unrest, I have nothing left to protect them from goblin/ulmish sneak raiders, and not enough income to buy stuff to protect them with either. Which doesn't matter because Yomi's already moving on to thugs and SCs to raid anyhow, which what I can buy or summon right now can't touch anyway. By the time I can touch them, I won't have the gems and/or yaksha to touch them *with*.
I know how this goes from here on, I really do - raiding and counter-raiding which drives the income of my lands to 0, while their income (both mundane and magical) remains tops because I don't have anything to raid them with anymore (see above about me being an idiot with a broken back). I'm sure you can see the feedback loop there ;).
I essentially lost all initiative in this war, if I ever had any.
I wish you wouldn't ask to be put on AI and unbalance the game with that many provinces and just hand that many to 1 or 2 nations.
They're going to get them one way or the other - as I said, I don't have the means to protect them, nor prevent my enemies from building the stuff that'll ensure they get them. My initial build/strat was too slow and wouldn't have worked anyway, I completely dropped the ball on adapting it to my immediate neighbours and at this point even the astral summons I'm shooting for are going to be nothing more than a speed bump, if that.
Hell, even taking my forts won't be that costly for him.
I mean, seriously. Look at Yomi's troop graph. Now his fort graph. Now his research graph. Now his gem graph. Seen 'em ? Now tell me the story of how he's not going to turn Kailasa into a driveway doublequick, esp. with Ulm lending a hand :D.
I know real life can get in the way, but you are making it sound like you think you can not beat Yomi so you quit. We all agreed to fight it out to the last man.
It's a combination of both, really.
One the one hand, in retrospect I'd registered in too many games at once and it's really eating into my work time (or my work time is really eating into my gaming time ;)). The time it takes me to think through everything, plan, script, scheme, test out etc... for each game is really above what I had anticipated, and a thousand times longer than playing turns against the AI.
Maybe it's because I'm not as clever as I thought I was or I obsess too much about things, but it takes me a good 2 hours to play one turn in one game. I really can't do this adequately for 3 games at once - and considering how badly I'm doing in them, I'd really need to spend even *more* time than that thinking about each ;)
TL;DR: in the future I'll only play the one game.
And on the other hand this particular game doesn't look like it's going to be very interesting for me from here on out. I already know how things are going down from here, seeing as I've been fighting those same 2 players in another game (Silicon Wolves). I don't really mind the losing itself, but losing against the exact same people in the same way for the same reasons twice in a row (well, in parallel rows really :)) is a bit demotivational, you know ? I did the tooth and nail thing against those two once and I'm profoundly dejected at having to do it again so soon.
'sides, haven't you noticed ? I'm *already* down to the last man. Well, woman. The rest are a handful of monkeys and 40 odd pigs :D
Now. I also realize it'd not be cool of me at all to turn AI overnight, which is why I'm warning of my waning of motivation well in advance. This should give y'all time to either find a sub who's more into lost causes than me right now ; or to shift your diplos and grand strategies around in preparation for the inevitable rapid demise which would immediately follow from Kailasa going AI.
To that I'll add that folding when the game is turning against you will only encourage other players to attack you in other games, creating a vicious downward spiral.
On the other hand, fighting it out to the bitter end means that people know a victory against you will not come easily, encouraging them in the future to look for easier pickings elsewhere.
Well, as I said, I've already done/am doing the tooth-and-nail thing against those two in Silicon Wolves. Cost them quite a bit, I believe. Or hope.
But it obviously hasn't put the Fear of God into them so either your statement is not absolutely true, or my fighting back style is so laughably ineffective it doesn't even matter :)
Ragnars Wolves
December 4th, 2010, 06:21 PM
I understand how you can feel, and I guess I have been guilty of just throwing everything at them at one time and just clicking turns. But that is usually when I only have 2 or 3 provinces, out of everything and I am actually wishing they would hurry up and get it over with.
I have also been known to try and Kill 1 commander that has been a pain in my Butt the whole game, when it gets down to that time. i set all my resources and magic for one final push and then it is Soooooooooooo satisfying if it works, and makes it like I go out with a bang so they will remember me.
OK, you have made a case for what you need to do for yourself, and your RL time. Please try your best for a few turns while I ask for someone that will take over a bad position.
There are Vets out there that LIVE to do that....If for no other reason than to test stuff out and they really CAN be a Pain to their neighbors that thought it was going to be easy.
I will post for one today in both forums.
Thank you for playing and giving notice. I will let you know in a couple of turns what we need to do, please keep fighting and leave your nation in the best possible shape for the mext guy.
nrasch
December 4th, 2010, 06:26 PM
I'll take the open spot/sub if it is still open. :)
I'm also on IRC as 'LeafyBits' if you want to chat some. :)
Hylobius
December 4th, 2010, 06:55 PM
Kobal2, given the fight that you are putting up in Silicon Wolves I'm really surprised that you would consider dropping at this point in Kindanew, but if that is what you need to do. When you say that you are losing to the same two people in the same way that is not really true. In SW you have been fighting four people, and you have been kicking my butt, so I don't see what you have to be dejected about. Also, I hope that you don't think that anything from SW has spilled over into this game. Early in this game when you expanded too close to my capital and were topping the charts I had no choice but to fight you and ally with any neighbors that you had.
Ulm
Kobal2
December 4th, 2010, 07:40 PM
OK, you have made a case for what you need to do for yourself, and your RL time. Please try your best for a few turns while I ask for someone that will take over a bad position. [...]
Thank you for playing and giving notice. I will let you know in a couple of turns what we need to do, please keep fighting and leave your nation in the best possible shape for the mext guy.
Sure thing - I'm not about to send all the yaksha at him with kamikaze pendants or anything :).
Thank you for understanding, and I really apologize for this.
When you say that you are losing to the same two people in the same way that is not really true. In SW you have been fighting four people, and you have been kicking my butt, so I don't see what you have to be dejected about. Also, I hope that you don't think that anything from SW has spilled over into this game. Early in this game when you expanded too close to my capital and were topping the charts I had no choice but to fight you and ally with any neighbors that you had.
I wouldn't dream of accusing you (or him) of bringing stuff from SW - I absolutely understand why the situation got this way, why you contacted Yomi, why they were only too eager to ally etc... That was not my point. I mean, I *was* going to roll you :D
The point is, in both games I stupidly trusted an NAP with FG to mean long-term security ; in both games he's thoroughly out-thought, out-played and out-predicted me ; and in both games you've been juuuust enough threat and annoyance to hamstring me without really committing much, while at the same time requiring too much effort to take down quickly without getting thoroughly rampaged by him. You two make a great tag team. Which is why I'm not enthusiastic about facing it again, except this time FG's got tons of resources to draw from :)
ETA : just got a mail saying the e-mail address has been changed, I assume nrasch got the sub ?
Ragnars Wolves
December 4th, 2010, 07:47 PM
Yes....thanks for staying in and not abandoning the game!!
I have changed the E-mail address and re-sent him the turn.
Do NOT set it to AI or anything (lol, I have no idea as I am flying by the seat of my pants) but I think you can just delete it now.
Good luck and when you get things squared away, will see you back:up:
Gentlemen Say hello to our new player and sub!!
nrasch
December 4th, 2010, 07:47 PM
Hi hi all. :)
First, Kobal2, thank you for letting me try out your spot. It should be fun and challenging to pick up where you left off. :)
Second, thank you to everyone else for letting me join. I'm excited to be here, and I'm looking forward to the game. :)
I should get started on my turn here shortly!
Nathan
Ragnars Wolves
December 4th, 2010, 08:44 PM
Kalisia has sent in his turn already, so when Arco (Groundworm) gets his in we will continue....
PLEASE contact Kalisia on diplomatic matters as I have no idea who is doing what.
If Arco has sent in his turn I will force host.
Kobal2
December 4th, 2010, 11:00 PM
nrasch and I have hashed over all the intel, diplomacy, scouting, general strat, recent events and so forth on IRC, so no worries there.
Whether he keeps my agreements is of course up to him, but I doubt he's in any position to betray anyone :). He was talking of distributing chocolate-coated bananas, too.
Ragnars Wolves
December 4th, 2010, 11:37 PM
Thanks Kobal!!
Finalgenesis
December 5th, 2010, 02:37 AM
Indeed, things worked out to the best for everyone! Now Kobal will have more time to plan evil deeds in SW :doh:
Ragnars Wolves
December 5th, 2010, 03:43 AM
What Is this SW?
Hylobius
December 5th, 2010, 11:19 AM
SW is Silicon Wolves, another noob game of Dom 3.
Hylobius
December 5th, 2010, 12:00 PM
I did not see anything about a break in the hostilities with the new Kailasa until I received an in-game message from him this turn. I'll try and contact him now.
Groundworm
December 5th, 2010, 12:35 PM
Greetings, assorted creatures of the world,
Arcoscephale seeks items of power for its mystics to study. Specifically, we are looking for:
a skull of fire
a flame helmet
a bag of winds
a ring of wizardry
If any of you can forge these items and are willing to trade, please PM me. I have gems of most types for trade, and can forge items as well upon request.
Finalgenesis
December 7th, 2010, 04:59 AM
We could shoot for const 6 and have access to fire skull + flame helm shortly, the question is how much N gem I can get for them before I decide if I want to change research toward const 6.
Xanatos
December 7th, 2010, 12:02 PM
Oceania has const 6 and is willing to trade, PM me
Finalgenesis
December 9th, 2010, 08:04 AM
We would like to request a 6 hours extension as I won't be able to access my home computer til later.
In fact, I vote for extending turn to 48 hours, holiday season coming up too.
Ragnars Wolves
December 9th, 2010, 10:43 AM
LOL, I just staled myself because of work and I NEVER stsle. I will put 12 hours on in case you get tied up. If you get your turn in it will host anyway.
What do the rest of you want to do about turn speed. My little empire takes me about 20 minutes to do my turn, but some of you are getting up there.
I was planing on taking a large amount of time on a couple of turns the week before and week after Christmas (can I say that), and if we got turns in it would host again but it would be long enough to not do a turn if you didn't want to.
I would like to get a minimum of 1 turn in the week BEFORE and 1 turn in the week AFTER...how does that sound?
We have had a request for 48 hour turns...please speak up and give your opinion.
mockingbird
December 9th, 2010, 05:13 PM
48 hour turns sound good to me. I have some business travel coming up, followed by holiday travel, and that would be helpful.
Ragnars Wolves
December 9th, 2010, 05:29 PM
OK...good enough going to 48 hour turns
Hylobius
December 9th, 2010, 10:13 PM
Switching to 48 hours works for me. I'm leaving home for two weeks starting the 14th and will have limited internet access.
Ragnars Wolves
December 24th, 2010, 12:05 PM
I will be extending the game until the 26th...if anyone needs longer PM me as I also will have some company and might not get on the forums.
Merry Christmas All!!
Finalgenesis
January 5th, 2011, 10:47 AM
Beware that NAPs hold no meaning to Arco (Groundworm), who have been repeatedly committing acts of aggression against us who so wish for peace while under NAP 5 with us.
1st the overwrite of our enchantment, followed by infiltration of multiple sceptic into our lands and forts to subvert dominion.
We warn all gods who have or intend to enter into NAP or other agreements with these oath breaking scums, agreements mean nothing to them. Beware of any trades and agreements with this pretender, in the current or any future incarnations you may meet him in.
Groundworm
January 6th, 2011, 06:37 PM
Finalgenesis, I respectfully disagree with the tone of your post. At the very least, none of my actions were meant to breach our NAP. That may, however, be at least partially my fault. I had, up until now, viewed NAPs as military agreements. In my mind, overwriting your Eternal Pyre was a strategic action and was not meant as an overt act of hostility. Your post made me rethink my ideas, as it's called a "non-aggression" pact for a reason.
As far as the sceptics... given that I have national scrying ability as well as Gift of Health up, it only makes sense to me to push my dominion in whatever ways possible. And since sceptics cost only slightly more than scouts and are better at what they do, it seems sensible to use them in place of scouts.
And the forts... forts hardly seem like an aggressive action, being that most people put them up throughout their territory in order to recruit. And especially on border provinces, purely for defense. This point I most strongly refute as evidence of aggression towards you.
I am willing to accept fault for some of my actions, but they were made still in good faith of our NAP. If you would like to summarily terminate our NAP, I will abide by that with no hard feelings. Similarly, if you wish to continue our NAP, I will remove sceptics from your territory and cease directly overwriting your global enchantments with the same enchantment.
In short, I think we have a difference of opinion in what constitutes breach of a NAP; whether you believe me or not is up to you. I'm willing to admit that I may be in error.
Ragnars Wolves
January 7th, 2011, 12:52 AM
I have no dog in this fight so I asked my Dad (GrudgeBringer) who used to almost exclusively play EA Arco about the Skeptics.
His answer did surprise me.
He said that he also used Skeptics as scouts but had to be very aware that the "Usual' rule of thumb was....ANY Mage, Priest, or troop of any kind that can do harm to another nation in any way in the other nations territory could be considered an act of war.
So, I asked a specific Question about skeptics. His reply was that skeptics hurt domain and cause unrest. He would try and get by with one or two as scouts but if caught he would have to make some diplomatic amends and at times was summarily attacked with out warning.
So while it doesn't sound like you meant any harm or knew any one would take it that way. It did sound as you meant to run skeptics knowing they would lower Domain.
I am not suggesting he attack you, but now I guess If I found skeptics (OR a stone idol etc) in my domain, I would probably demand compensation or attack (LOL, or cry).
I didn't know Arco had so many small weapons at its command.;)
Finalgenesis
January 7th, 2011, 06:33 AM
Good enough, kindanoob game and we're all learning as we go along.
And yes Grudgebringer's understanding in NAP is essentially what I get in the past few MP games I played in, basically revolves around the term "Non-aggression", scouting / obtaining info = not aggressive, attacking dom/unrest = aggressive, targetting another players global specifically = aggressive, I think it's pretty self-evident and I hope we have a common understanding on NAP.
I would ask for 50F as compensation for the overwrite on the pyre though, which I would think is more then reasonable.
To peace then (?).
Finalgenesis
January 7th, 2011, 11:37 AM
And the forts... forts hardly seem like an aggressive action, being that most people put them up throughout their territory in order to recruit. And especially on border provinces, purely for defense. This point I most strongly refute as evidence of aggression towards you.
Extracted from our post:
"followed by infiltration of multiple sceptic into our lands and forts to subvert dominion."
Our lands and our forts, meaning your sceptic sitting on our forts to attack dominion and create unrest. Building forts and temples along borders are definitely fair game and not considered an overt act of aggression.
nrasch
January 7th, 2011, 12:25 PM
I'd like to quickly compliment everyone in the previous NAP discussions on being so mature and reasonable. I can't count the number of times I've seen those kind of posts degrade into trash talking, junior high affairs.
So, well done, and thanks for keeping our game friendly and fun. I even got to learn something as to what might be considered aggressive. :)
Thanks!
Nathan
Ragnars Wolves
January 7th, 2011, 02:56 PM
LOL, now I have to agree with Groundworm on forts...It IS his territory and if he wants to build forts, I would say that is his perogitive. Just because he MIGHT make and send skeptics from them doesn't mean anything....Oh, just found out another thing about skeptics, just because they are YOUR skeptics, they will screw up YOUR unrest and domain also. So you see, that is why sketics are considered a possible declaration of war. Why build them if your not going to send them anywhere. I guess it is kind of like holding in football...until you get caught there is no penalty, but once you do, it could be a big one.
Finalgenesis
January 7th, 2011, 03:38 PM
The passage in question:
blah blah...
1st the overwrite of our enchantment, followed by infiltration of multiple sceptic into our lands and forts to subvert dominion.
... blah blah
Now I'm not sure whether it's my poor grammar or the reading comprehension of the readers :p. But nowhere did I say that building forts on your own land is a breach of NAP, so please, stop putting words in my mouth.
I believe the problem arises from:
...followed by infiltration of multiple sceptic into our lands and forts to subvert dominion...
Maybe this will help:
...followed by infiltration of multiple sceptic into our lands and ->OUR<- forts to subvert dominion...
Meaning, insertion of sceptics into our (Yomi's) fort to attack our dominion, NOT building your own fort on your own province to subvert our dominion. And really, forts don't spread dominion...
Ragnars Wolves
January 7th, 2011, 09:15 PM
NO...but the temples associated with them do.
Sorry, I was just putting my take on forts and skeptics...I will stay out of your guys discussion.
Lihaässä
January 9th, 2011, 08:41 AM
Anyone missing their turn file? I got the below message from turns@llamaserver.net and I'm not in this game.
@Admin - could you check that I'm not on the list receiving the turnfiles?
Hello from the LlamaServer!
This message is just to let you know that I just received a 2h file from you, and it seems to be fine. However, I already received a 2h file from you for the same turn. I'll assume that this newer file is a revised version, and use it instead.
If you sent both this and the previous 2h file within a minute or two of each other, there's some possibility that they arrived in the wrong order. Just to check I'm using the correct one, here's a couple of details of the message that arrived last:
Subject: Re: New turn file: Kindanew, Ulm turn 48
Date sent: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:06:17 -0800
If you don't want me to use the 2h file from this e-mail - send your new 2h again!
Game details:
Game name: Kindanew
Nation: Early Era Ulm
Turn number: 48
Who's sent their turn in:
Oceania 2h file received
Yomi Waiting for 2h file
Marverni 2h file received
Abysia 2h file received
Arcoscephale Waiting for 2h file
Ulm 2h file received
The turn will process when all 2h files have been received, or at the latest at 16:15 GMT on Wednesday January 12th.
You can check this information at any time at www.llamaserver.net.
-------------------------------------
Problems, questions or suggestions? E-mail llamabeast@llamaserver.net.
mockingbird
January 10th, 2011, 02:15 PM
Last I checked, it looked like this game might be stalled on Llamaserver. Could one of the admins look into that, please?
Thanks.
Groundworm
January 10th, 2011, 06:42 PM
Next turn has been generated, so I think that problem (if there was one) has been resolved.
Lihaassa, thanks for mentioning this. Hylobius, are you actually receiving your turn file?
Groundworm
January 10th, 2011, 06:48 PM
I will walk away from this game with a new understanding of exactly what constitutes breach of a NAP, and this will serve me well in future games.
Can we compromise on the compensation you're due? 25 fire gems?
Hylobius
January 10th, 2011, 08:39 PM
Next turn has been generated, so I think that problem (if there was one) has been resolved.
Lihaassa, thanks for mentioning this. Hylobius, are you actually receiving your turn file?
I am receiving my turn files. The only thing that I did not receive was my confirmation file and now I know where that ended up :eek:
Finalgenesis
January 11th, 2011, 08:00 AM
Sure, a token gesture is all we ask. 25 A/W/F/N in any combination is okay.
We revoke our call of oath breaking on Arcoscephale and shall uphold agreements normally, let there be peace (and less micro!).
Groundworm
January 11th, 2011, 06:57 PM
Agreed, Finalgenesis, I shall send you the 25 gems. I don't have the ability to modify my turn right now, so if I don't get the gems to you by the time the next turn generates, I'll send them to you with my next turn.
And I second nrasch's sentiments- I appreciate the maturity and reason with which we've been able to conduct these discussions, and I'm pleased to be playing with you.
Ragnars Wolves
January 12th, 2011, 06:27 PM
Mockingbird (Marverni)
What the hell are you talking about?
I never sent any asassians into your area, I don't even have any.
If you want to take over my area, don't break the nap without warning, I expected more than that from you as I was living by your grace anyway.
Fine, but don't disparage MY name while you become a Nap breaker. I could understand if you said you ran out of expansion room, or anything like that.
mockingbird
January 12th, 2011, 11:25 PM
We are quite surprised to find the demons of Abysia acting so surprised and outraged, since Abysia did in fact send assassins into Marverni territory.
See attached screenshot from turn 45. Province is Merovia (65).
Finalgenesis
January 13th, 2011, 08:36 AM
Putting aside whether Using assassins or spies as scouts are a breach of NAP, since they have no auto-aggressive abilities (assassination or incite unrest require specific order to activate, unlike sceptic, reapers and auto-unrest some units have). Do note that:
All of EA Abysia's scouts have the assassin ability. For reference they are slayer and demonbred.
So in a way, I wouldn't say they are breaching NAP unless they are assassinating commanders and thus commit an actual act of aggression with intent. Not to mention they have no scout commander without assassin ability.
Note: I've never ran into assassins being used as scouts in previous MP games so I'm unsure what the accepted consensus is. I'm only going by the general principle vets have impressed on me: actual act of aggression with intent (e.g. random global overwrite seem like aggression, but lacks specific intent and thus not a breach of NAP). We may have to trot out a vet again if you want to be sure.
GrudgeBringer
January 13th, 2011, 09:07 AM
Seems like you guys have a lot of nations that have assassins for scouts. Guess it will be interesting and convenient for going to war!!
Ragnars Wolves
January 13th, 2011, 09:30 AM
I made a mistake it looks like. I really didn't read the description of Demonbreds and thought they were just flying scouts.
Sorry if I jumped the gun and called Mockingbird anything, I was just REALLY surprised (as you can tell) and have never played Abysia before. Guess I should have payed more attention, but once I was hemmed in from very early i just was making forts and seeing what these guys could do.
I just wish he would have done what the last deal about skeptics was handled. But (lol) I guess it is a good a excuse as any if we JUST had a blowup over the same thing and then i do it.
And even my dad makes a comment on it that seems to condone it...
My bad Mockingbird, our relationship is good and stays that way. I apologize to you and the community for getting heated up!!:up:
mockingbird
January 13th, 2011, 09:54 AM
Putting aside whether Using assassins or spies as scouts are a breach of NAP, since they have no auto-aggressive abilities (assassination or incite unrest require specific order to activate, unlike sceptic, reapers and auto-unrest some units have). Do note that:
All of EA Abysia's scouts have the assassin ability. For reference they are slayer and demonbred.
So in a way, I wouldn't say they are breaching NAP unless they are assassinating commanders and thus commit an actual act of aggression with intent. Not to mention they have no scout commander without assassin ability.
Note: I've never ran into assassins being used as scouts in previous MP games so I'm unsure what the accepted consensus is. I'm only going by the general principle vets have impressed on me: actual act of aggression with intent (e.g. random global overwrite seem like aggression, but lacks specific intent and thus not a breach of NAP). We may have to trot out a vet again if you want to be sure.
I checked with the vets on the IRC channel when I was trying to decide what to do. The consensus there was that (a) sending assassins into someone else's territory without explicit authorization is a violation of NAP, and (b) most likely indicates that an attack is eminent.
Their advice to me was to hit my opponent without warning with as much force as I could as soon as I could, before getting attacked myself.
I had overlooked that Abysia doesn't have natural scouts, but no one uses national scouts in any event, unless they have a starting scout that isn't made a prophet. (When asking for advice, I was clear that my opponent was Abysia.)
In this case, adding to my impression of hostile intent was that it was not an isolated incident, and that the assassins in question were capitol-only units not idly produced.
In private correspondence with Ragnar's Wolves, he indicated that he was just messing around with the nation and that they *were* idly produced and he didn't even realize they were assassins. I don't see any reason not to accept that at face value, and there are definitely no hard feelings on my side.
However, I was and am going to play under the assumption that the other players in the game are trying their best to win it, even if they currently face long odds.
Finalgenesis
January 13th, 2011, 10:23 AM
Ouch that's another strike on playing EA aby.
EA is an era where indie scouts are rarest, often times nations don't find any at all, so there's a good chance of not being able to scout at all playing EA aby.
So the vets in question were aware that EA aby have no non-assassion scouts?
not being able to scout in MP play without risking NAP breach just sent EA aby below EA agartha in play viability for me lol, tough luck Ragnars (and I better not see your "scouts" in my territory hah!).
mockingbird
January 13th, 2011, 01:32 PM
I never explicitly confirmed that the veterans knew that Abysia didn't have any national scouts, I'm just presuming that they did. After all, I don't think any era of Abysia gets national scouts.
Although really, castles produce mages unless you don't have enough money, or need some other kind of commander for very special purposes that you can't get from an indy province.
Finalgenesis
January 13th, 2011, 02:54 PM
You'd be surprised how easy it is to slip a Vets' mind.
EA doesn't actually have many indie scout provinces, I've played in EA games enough to run into cases where players not getting a single scout prov.
I find myself building scouts from forts now and then and don't always max out mage production, especially entering mid-late game with periods of peace, no gold income growth...etc
Though really, there's no need to rationalize attacking Aby, agreements are non-binding, the specific circumstances grey enough, and the prize large enough, it certainly makes strategic sense to go for it in your shoes. So speaking from an outsider perspective I applaud, plenty of vets would jump at the chance in this circumstance, it's only a matter of time for Aby anyway :p I was wondering when you or Arco would make a move.
mockingbird
January 13th, 2011, 03:49 PM
The reason why I'm being careful to present my reasoning is because I hold with the general philosophy that being a trustworthy actor will net me more advantage in the game over the long run than being an untrustworthy one.
Breaking an agreement to gain an advantage in one game is likely to cost me even more in other games if people won't trust me diplomatically.
So if I've made a mistake here, it was an honest one. I guess I attributed more ferocity to Ragnar's Wolves than was warranted. :p
What you say about the strategic position is true; I probably would have formally terminated my NAP with Abysia sometime soon in the proper manner. Thinking I was soon to be attacked caused me to rush my timetable and preparations, however.
Kobal2
January 15th, 2011, 06:33 PM
EA doesn't actually have many indie scout provinces, I've played in EA games enough to run into cases where players not getting a single scout prov.
That was in fact the case for Kailasa in this very game.
Finalgenesis
January 19th, 2011, 04:58 AM
Hmmm it seems the server has stalled, a force hosting may be in order.
I think Arco should be PMed and a sub seeking process started if there's no response =/ Hopefully he'll be back, we can't really have a position like Arco stale more then 1 turn without affecting the game quality adversely.
Groundworm
January 19th, 2011, 05:08 AM
The server hasn't stalled... I have. My apologies. Demands on my time have been greater than usual this past week, and I've been issuing postponements as I've been unable to process this particularly complex turn. I hope to have my turn sent in today.
Ragnars Wolves, who is playing Abysia, has informed me that real life events currently and indefinitely prevent him from participating in Dominions. Do we want to find a sub for him, or is he weak enough that he can set himself to AI without adversely affecting the quality of the game?
Finalgenesis
January 19th, 2011, 07:25 AM
I think Ragnars will pass admin pass to someone, thanks for hosting the game Rags! (and good luck, was fun playing with you, hope to see you in the future)
At most a human player can do is cost Marv a little more in aby's shoes, I see no game changing impact to have them go AI.
I vote AI.
Finalgenesis
January 21st, 2011, 06:18 AM
Any updates to what's going on? The turn deadline is up to a week already.
I've seen games die out after rotting for a week or so and surely don't wish for such a fate for this game, usually on the ball admins tries to find temp sub to prevent this.
Could we find you a temp sub to help alleviate any time commitments?
Xanatos
January 31st, 2011, 11:36 PM
why are turns taking so long?
Finalgenesis
February 5th, 2011, 02:56 AM
Trading for W gems, offering E, D, F
Finalgenesis
February 7th, 2011, 10:24 AM
Won't be able to reach my game computer til just after hosting time, extended this turn by 12 hrs.
Xanatos
February 9th, 2011, 02:09 AM
i dont mind 3 day turns, but this practice of continually pushing back turns is rediculous, please set the hosting to 72 hours (or less) and lets go forward with this game. If you can't make at least one turn in 3 days, quit.
Finalgenesis
February 9th, 2011, 03:03 AM
I will second the motion with a more moderate tone, if players with admin powers need extension, it should be posted here and notified to other players the reasons as a minimal courtesy and due consideration for fellow players, rather then consecutive 2-4 days delay consistently without a word or response to questions raised (on top of hosting interval changed stealthily).
Basically, if players with admin access needs to extend (especially 2-4 days of extensions consistently) or change host settings, please communicate to the other very human players involved in the same game as you are.
btw, hosting interval has already been set to 72 hrs some time back (not by me, I didn't notice til now either), you may not have noticed due to extensions.
To clarify, I believe there are 2 players with admin access including me. I extended by 12 hrs one time as posted previously (that and force hosted the turns when all turns are handed in to speed things up), all other extensions shown in the admin log are from elsewhere.
Admin log:
http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=Kindanew&action=showadminlog
Hylobius
February 9th, 2011, 10:05 AM
In my experience games that have frequent and lengthy delays usually die a slow death as players loose interest, and I would not like to see that happen in this game. Lets try and stick with our designated turn around.
Finalgenesis
February 27th, 2011, 12:50 PM
I will need an extension of 6 hrs (I have already extended it), Apologies.
On another note, Oceania is doing much better then I thought... I'd have expected Arco to roll over them already.
Xanatos
February 27th, 2011, 02:24 PM
Oceania (Me) is holding its own, the lords of the watery depths have decreed all waters as sacred, and under our rightful domain. The tritons have spoken.
Groundworm
February 28th, 2011, 03:25 PM
I think I'm going to look for a sub for myself. Within the past 4-6 months, I signed up for several Dominions games... too many, really. I never expected to wind up in the endgame of 3 games at once, and I'm a little burnt on Dominions. This is a very good game, and I'd love to see it through to the end... but that's a long way off and I just don't know if I have it in me. I've already had 2 stales within the past 5 turns or so, and that's not like me.
So, if there are no objections, I'll post for a sub. Let me know what you think.
Finalgenesis
February 28th, 2011, 10:35 PM
Certainly, will put the game on hold until a sub is found, good luck elsewhere.
If you could take the time to brief any sub you find on the situation that would be good too.
I can certainly understand the fatigue, and I found it takes a certain mindset to handle setbacks constantly (which is a constant in MP, even if you win at the end).
Finalgenesis
March 2nd, 2011, 08:37 AM
I don't see a sub seeking thread and have taken the liberty make one.
Thanks for the heads up btw. I can't state the number of times I have to put up with silent quitting scumbags disrupting a game (Almost every single MP game I ever played in, in fact), so this is definitely a refreshing change.
Groundworm
March 2nd, 2011, 12:43 PM
I was just about to create a thread seeking a sub, but I see you beat me to it. Thanks for taking the time to do that, it's appreciated.
Allow me to take the time to say that I realize I've created some difficulty in this game with my misinterpretation of my NAP with Finalgenesis, my multiple unstated delays and turn postponements, several undesired stales, and a general lack of communication, and now bailing. I apologize for all of these, and it's with some disappointment that I'm requesting a sub. I would like to see how things go in my war against Oceania and test out my latest ideas, but I'm just spread too thin and am not giving this game the attention it deserves.
You're all providing an excellent game, and I'm sorry to have been so difficult.
Finalgenesis
March 7th, 2011, 07:42 AM
hmmm no one is jumping at subbing for EA arco yet.
Groundworm
March 12th, 2011, 05:11 AM
Requesting 48 hour extension. Busy week + work all weekend = may need until Sunday eve to take my turn. Will attempt to be more expeditious as my schedule allows.
Finalgenesis
March 12th, 2011, 08:38 AM
Done, thanks for hanging there while we're still looking for sub! Tried once in irc will try again
Finalgenesis
March 13th, 2011, 10:09 PM
Gonna need input here, so far no sub has shown but in my experience one eventually does, I don't think we can be choosers here and go for newish players.
In the meantime, Arco can't really be allowed to AI or left in any length of limbo without messing up the game balance.
I suggest that once Groundworm can't hand in temp turns anymore, we put the game on hold until a sub is available, I haven't been able to hit irc on peak hours so if we're lucky we should find a sub soon.
Ideas?
mockingbird
March 16th, 2011, 11:36 PM
You do realize that casting Arcane Nexus is generally considered a declaration of war against the world, right?
Finalgenesis
March 17th, 2011, 03:42 AM
Nope we are not declaring war on the world, my global does not cause any direct aggressive action to others, it's no different then a gem income global like pyre or soul well, it's nature is exactly the same.
You are of course free to declare war on us.
Xanatos
March 17th, 2011, 03:46 AM
Hes right of course, Arcane nexus is basically starting to produce nukes, everyone is now going to come after you=/ It's considered a breaker of naps, truces, and a war dec on the world.
Finalgenesis
March 17th, 2011, 04:33 AM
Again, you're free to declare war on me, declaring on game leader or someone getting very strong is very understandable.
but calling gem income increase itself an aggressive action is a stretch, we are not committing aggressive actions anywhere, we're simply increasing our gem income, does this make us get stronger by the turn faster? Yes. Is increasing gem income itself aggressive action? No.
Otherwise all gem generating globals would be the same, as their nature are exactly the same if different in degrees.
I believe the confusion stems from that it's considered a breaker in that you can't leave the guy with nexus up for long without him running away with it, hence it's almost mandatory you declare war on the guy.
I will note though it's considered strongest on bigger maps , and it's effect while powerful, is certainly scaled down by corresponding degrees depending on map size.
Finalgenesis
March 17th, 2011, 12:51 PM
please welcome our Arco sub Allium, Groundworm should already have caught him up to speed.
Welcome Allium!
mockingbird
March 17th, 2011, 01:58 PM
As I understand it, the Dominions community standard is that the spells Arcane Nexus, Utterdark, Burden of Time, and Forge of the Ancients are implicit violations of NAPs.
This standard prevents lots of nitpicking and tedium when negotiating NAPs, because then not every violation of the NAP needs to be spelled out.
mockingbird
March 17th, 2011, 01:59 PM
Also, welcome Allium! :)
Finalgenesis
March 17th, 2011, 02:26 PM
Ah foolish druids,
Your whining gets old and smells like rotten fish, you should finish with whining and get on with it. If you want to attack, then attack, there's no need to justify your actions.
I've fought in incarnations with veteran incarnates where forge of ancients and burden did not get people bunching up their panties and cry foul (it did cause some nations to declare war in the case of burden of time, none did so for forge of the ancients), your cries of hard standards just sound hollow and ... well let me refrain in the name of tact.
We await you should you decide to do more then yip and yap.
Allium
March 17th, 2011, 03:41 PM
Hello, everyone!
Not that I really have a stake in this yet (need more time to look at the position), but I can't help but notice that mockingbird has both Arcane Nexus and Forge of the Ancients up in MonkeyParadise (which we're also both in) without getting war dec'd by the rest of the world.
mockingbird
March 17th, 2011, 04:16 PM
I jumped the gun earlier in this game when I assumed that Ragnar's Wolves was fully cognizant of his actions, when as it turned out he was merely clueless. I wished not to repeat my mistake.
If I sounded rude or curt, I apologize. Sleep and time have been very short for me lately. My posts were intended to be a courtesy; I'm sorry if they fell short.
At any rate, nothing I've said hasn't already been gone over in any of a number of threads about NAPs on this or the other forum.
As for MonkeyParadise, and not getting jumped for casting Arcane Nexus and Forge of the Ancients:
1) When I cast those spells, I only had a NAP with one of the four remaining players (Allium). Of the others, one was already at war with me, and another had declared hostile intent. I checked in advance in general terms to make sure that Allium would be okay with my actions. Since I was a bit vague about what I was going to do, I wouldn't have a problem if Allium changed strategy and decided to jump me, however.
2) I was at war with the (still) leading nation in the game, who was twice my size. Without those spells I would have been crushed. So really, the major reason I wasn't ganged up on immediately was that people were more afraid of the game leader.
3) The game leader then cast Astral Corruption, which massively irritated all the other players.
Mockingbird
PS My panties are wrinkle-resistant. It comes in handy!
Allium
March 19th, 2011, 07:53 PM
Can I have an extra day for this turn? Still figuring things out.
Allium
March 19th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Also, if there are any diplomatic agreements/negotiations I should know about, please inform me.
Finalgenesis
March 19th, 2011, 10:58 PM
Of course, extended.
Groundworm didn't update you?
Allium
March 20th, 2011, 07:11 PM
He has now, thanks.
Finalgenesis
April 22nd, 2011, 10:30 AM
Just a quick heads up in case folks are wondering, I checked with Ulm and they are active, I presume the stales are planned stales (basically nothing to do).
mockingbird
April 25th, 2011, 12:34 AM
I would like a 24 hour extension to submit my turn, please.
Thank you.
Finalgenesis
April 25th, 2011, 10:29 AM
extended =)
mockingbird
May 7th, 2011, 11:39 PM
My apologies, but due to travel, I may need up to two days extension of my turn.
I will try to get it in sooner if I at all can.
Finalgenesis
May 8th, 2011, 01:44 AM
Done, 48 hrs extension
Finalgenesis
May 22nd, 2011, 11:35 AM
I'm going to put next turn on hold and look for sub if ulm stales again.
Finalgenesis
May 23rd, 2011, 06:19 AM
Sub found, please communicate diplo to Admiral Aorta for EA ulm.
Welcome!
Admiral_Aorta
May 23rd, 2011, 11:39 PM
Hello everyone, I'm taking over Ulm, once I can find a copy of EDM 1.1.
Finalgenesis
June 5th, 2011, 12:24 PM
I will be needing a 1 day extension (and have done so) on this turn, the micro is getting reaaaally crazy! Good times =)
Finalgenesis
June 10th, 2011, 10:53 AM
Apologies, I'm starting to reach the 96 hr turn micro for this one.
Have extended this turn by 24 hrs due to massive amount of micro...
Allium
June 10th, 2011, 10:55 AM
Maybe we should permanently extend the turn limit? Micro's getting heavy for me too.
Finalgenesis
June 10th, 2011, 11:14 AM
Sounds good actually.
Any objections? I'll assume we're okay with 96 hrs turn starting next turn if no one says anything.
Admiral_Aorta
June 12th, 2011, 05:26 AM
I wouldn't mind 96 hours, though I personally am not finding the micro that bad. :)
Finalgenesis
July 9th, 2011, 07:30 AM
I've extended by 6 hrs as I won't make it home til a few hours later then I thought to wrap up the turn, apologies!
Finalgenesis
July 10th, 2011, 03:54 AM
That was a pretty crazy fight in Gladewood @.@
Allium
July 12th, 2011, 07:58 PM
That was... costly.
Allium
July 13th, 2011, 03:18 PM
No, I was wrong. That battle was cheap compared to this turn.
Oh, my poor communion. Stopped your 9 ember lords and friends, only to be undone by the turn limit.
Finalgenesis
July 21st, 2011, 10:33 PM
In hindsight, Mixing cold aura units with ember lords without parkas isn't a great idea!
On another note, I will be on vacation from 26th July - 16th August. A kind soul has offered to temp sub the duration, I'll post here once things are confirmed.
Finalgenesis
July 25th, 2011, 01:27 PM
Don_Pablo has graciously agreed to temp sub for me, hopefully he'll survive the Marvenian jade blood sac for the interim!
don_Pablo
July 28th, 2011, 09:21 PM
Excuse me for rather late request but I need:
1. correct link to d/load map
2. delay for current turn (#104)
thanks!
Finalgenesis
July 29th, 2011, 12:21 PM
Done, map e-mailed to you.
24 hrs turn extension put through
Finalgenesis
August 15th, 2011, 06:34 PM
I've returned from vacation, thanks much to don pablo for the temp sub!
Added a 48 hr extension for myself as I the turn seem due within a day and I need to look through the turn in details.
Finalgenesis
August 18th, 2011, 07:58 AM
Hmmm... been clicking on turn resend a few times for the past 2 days and still haven't gotten the trn file yet (did get the e-mail on successful email address switch and time warning). Previously it looked like server was doing a quick hiccup (from looking at server time vs late updated time variance), I'll keep at it and will ask llama for help if it I still can't get the trn file in a bit.
Meanwhile, I've extended another 24 hrs and hope to resolve this problem by then, apologies everyone.
Edit: just got the trn file!
mockingbird
August 25th, 2011, 11:20 AM
I am prepared to concede the game to Yomi. There does not seem to be much point to playing things out further at this point from my perspective.
What do the rest of you think?
Admiral_Aorta
August 25th, 2011, 05:53 PM
I have no problem with that, I've been pretty much powerless for a while now anyway.
Finalgenesis
August 26th, 2011, 02:07 AM
I am (actually I'm guessing we all are) micro-fatigued to HELL, I have no reason to say no to ending the game.
I feel heavily horror marked with this game on my back.
mockingbird
August 26th, 2011, 11:33 AM
Horror marked or not, you played an excellent game. Congratulations on your victory!
Allium
August 26th, 2011, 10:57 PM
Oh yeah, I'm totally ready to concede. Congratulations Finalgenesis!
Finalgenesis
August 27th, 2011, 05:50 AM
Thanks everyone for a good game and some excellent endgame experience!
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