Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running

[Doo]

Hi People

This is the thread for a five humans vs AI's game.

The map will be Cradle of Dominion, firstly run through the SemiRand program and then passed off to NT Jedi who has offered to improve the AI's chances with a few tricks. Thanks NT Jedi :up:

There are two AI teams, 3 land AI's in a team (Abysia, Niefelheim and Tien Chi) and 1 water AI by itself (Atlantis).

Game Parameters are:

Era: Early Era

Mods: Better Independents 2.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39225) (click to find the download). We are using the Gold and Resources version.

Patch: 3.26

Renaming: On

Hall of Fame Entries: 15

Gold, Production and Gem Site Frequency: Normal

Research: Hard

Graphs: Off

Turn Timer: I will set the turn timer initially to 48 hours but ask that players, at least up to turn 15, take their turns every 24 hours. Extensions will be granted when asked for. If turns start getting too long the tun timer will be lengthened.

Players:

Endomorphious - C'tis
Hrum - Kailasa
Mauxe - Caelum
Thanatus del Dragos - Fomoria
Doo - Tir na n'Og


During play I intend to record the action from my point of view using FRAPS (http://www.fraps.com/) and creating an AAR.

Turns 1 to 16 for Tir na n'Og AAR (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=771169&postcount=130)

Turns 17 to 23 for Tir an n'Og AAR (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=771461&postcount=151)

[Doo]

Players who have not picked a nation please do so ASAP.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Brainstorming time...yea, pretender designed...hmmm...gonna have to think about this...I'm not terribly bright...I don't need a SC becasue I have big *** giants, have to decide on either a rainbow to search for independent mages, as my non capital mages are crap and limited or a bless strategy for my pretty good holy troops and holy mages. Earth and Nature are always a nice choice for giant types, these guys seem to suffer from some end problems...if I go for a bless strategy, then I might as well imprison the god, and make decent order for cash, and research, as my non capital mages are garbage...man, I really am a newb, just can't make a decision yet...going to have to play around tonight.

[Hrum]

How's your Fomoria build going, Thanatus? I'd offer some advice, but I've never looked at Formoria, or played against them, so I have no idea. :)

I'm still tinkering with my Kailasa build, but I think I've settled on the general approach I want.

How's everyone else coming along with nation selection?

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I have settled on an imprisoned monolith with 4F4E4S6N 5Dom 3 Order and 1 Magic. Going to draft as many unmarked and god kings as possible, and work research to lay down the thunder magic. Thats pretty much all I got so far.

[Doo]

I've yet to hear anything from Mauxe and Endomorphious regarding their nations and pretenders.

I've been informed that what we want to do will be more of an effort to set up on the llamaserver so I've asked Gandalf Parker if we can run the game on his server and he said we can.

I have just pm'ed Mauxe re his nation and I've heard nothing from Endomorphious for a while. I'm keen to go ahead so I will give them until tomorrow to let me know if they are still in and we'll go from there, even if it is just the three of us :)

[NTJedi]

The profiles for Mauxe and Endomorphious indicate they're still active on the forum. Perhaps they don't know the location of this thread?

[endomorphious]

Hi sorry lost track of the thread. As far as kingdom goes Im flexible, lately obsessed with MA Ctis, but will play just about anything.

Just need to clarify is this human players vs AI? Or a free-for-all for all concerned just with some humans and some AI's?

I really dislike adding mods of any kind to my games, since I'm not terribly good at undoing them once their on there. How does the mod affect my regular SP gameplay?

I'd be happy to play EA Ctis, Mictlan, Sauromatia, Mictlan, Arco....

[Gandalf Parker]

Dom3 "knows" which mods need to be on and will take care of it for you.

Mods only have to be manually turned on to create a pretender for a game, or if you are playing solo then your mods choices need turned on when you start the game. But after that, everytime you open that game up it will automatically turn on the mods it needs. You dont have to leave any mods on all the time.

IF the game is going to be a direct-connect game (instead of play by email) then even that doesnt have to be done. Connecting to the games server and port will turn on the mods that particular game needs. Then you can quit back to the pretender generation menu being sure that the right mods are on. Its a good way to make sure that you have the correct versions of each mod.

Added note: the maps dont actually have to be downloaded in a direct connect game either. If you connect to a game and you dont have the map, the game will send it to you across the connection. However thats very slow so for larger games its much better to download the map so you dont have to wait for everyone to get their map one at a time.

Oh yeah, and if you have lots of mods you play with often but not always the same ones, you can create a seperate desktop icon to open Dom3 with those mods. My shorcuts to Dom3 games type in the server and the IPs. My shortcuts for solo play change lots of game defaults and use different mod sets.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44262

[Doo]

How about EA Ctis then endomorphious?

The Better Independents mod makes the crappier independent recruits cost something like 5000 gold and 900 resources. Basically they become unrecruitable. The purpose of this is to stop the AI from spending all its gold recruiting crap independent troops, instead (hopefully) investing in better troops. Independents that remain recruitable are those that you get for free from lucky events (or imagine what the upkeep on 50 odd 5000 gp's a piece units would be) or independents that are uniquely good (eg amazons riding lizards).

Glad to hear from you endomorphious :)

[NTJedi]

Sounds safe to place Endomorphious as C'tis ... only Mauxe needs to provide a nation.

[Mauxe]

I think I'd like to be Atlantis.

If you would rather I not go water I'll be Caelum.

Mauxe

[Doo]

Actually I was hoping to only have an AI Oceania in the seas, I kinda think with a super-charged AI they would be tough to kick out of the seas as land nations. If its no bother Mauxe I'd ask you go Caelum.

I'll go..... Tir na n'Og... The land of the forever young.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQi8wEHMm5Y)


Cheers for signing on everyone, I'll spend tonight putting the base map together.

[endomorphious]

EA Ctis will be fine can u link the mod and map (and perhaps a friendly guide on adding mods/maps)

[NTJedi]

I also recommend having only one AI opponent in the seas and no human players in the seas. Instead of Oceania as the AI opponent could I recommend Atlantis?

These are the land opponents I recommend for the AI opponents:

Cold Allies= Pangaea, Helheim, Neifelheim
Hot Allies= Abysia, Tien Chi, Argatha
then Atlantis could either be solo OR computer allied.

[Doo]

I'm having issues with SemiRand working with the Alexander map so I'll go with the original choice of Cradle of Dominion. Due to the size constraints I'll limit the AI's to a single team of four, three land nations and one water nation.

I am thinking the AI's should be on "Difficult" setting.

The mod can be found here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=612331), of the three versions we will use the Gold + Resources version.

Cradle of Dominion you should already have.

To answer your previous question, this is an AI vs humans game, there is to be no fighting between human nations. Deals about swapping provinces or allowing another nation to take provinces for movement purposes are fine.

[Doo]

For fun I'll detail my process for making the .map file.

Firstly I have run the .map file through the SemiRand program with the following nations selected:
http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/SemiRand.jpg

Seeing as the human team has one hot and one cold nation I thought it would be good for the AI team to have the same.

[Doo]

Next I create a copy of the map to mark what provinces have been designated starting locations by the SemiRand program (note the map we play on won't have these marks on them, also I never bother to do this when playing a SP SemiRand map).

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/cradle_placement_TCAI_vs_HLH_scaled.jpg

133 looks to be a nice starting place, I think I'll use that for the AI and give that AI a second castle in the north west corner. I read somewhere that if the AI starts with two castles it will devote energy to link the two, if this is true this should create a strong positioned mid game AI.

[Doo]

Manually placing starting positions to make it more even and a challenge, I give each AI a second starting castle. All land AI nations are allied.

The staring map will look like this:

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/cradle_placement_TCAI_vs_HLH_done.jpg

[Doo]

I've passed the .map file on to NT Jedi. Please have your pretenders ready to start.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Are our starting positions going to be random, or did you place them? I'm bored at work, so if I knew my starting point, I could starting thinking about strategy instead of just sitting around trying to look busy...

[NTJedi]

You will be starting on Province 186 as chosen by Doo. Based on developer design Fomoria must start next to a water province.

[Doo]

For the humans:

C'tis is at 18.
Kailasa is at 36
Tir na n'Og is at 157
Fomoria is at 186
Caelum is at 195

For the AI's:

Thats a secret until you find out in game, although it can probably be guessed who starts at 92.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Ha, awesome, I started a SP game a couple days ago to kind of practice, and I started at 186.

[Doo]

I'm trying this strategy:

Dormant Fountain of Blood
4E 2D 4B
7 Dom
3 Order
3 Production
2 Growth
2 Misfortune
1 Magic

I'm hoping to get a mini blood economy going to forge Blood Stones and Lifelong Pacts. The Death is to summon Revenants, empower in Air and forge Vision's Foe en mass (Sidhe Lords start at 16 precision and can cast both Aim and Eagle Eyes, precision overkill?). At Alt-8 Revenants plus a Skull Staff gives Disintegrate. Alt-7 is where Fog Warriors is at.

To get there I'm relying on cash and production creating large numbers of glamour troops backed up by Sidhe Lord thugs (Mirror Image and Mistform). I'm not too sure about Evocation-4 research in the early game to get Thunderstrike as we are playing Difficult Research and I want to get what I need and no more. Alt-3 gives Protection, I could spam that to increase survivability of the rank and file.

Never played Tir na n'Og before but this is my plan.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I've got my pretended and scales decided on, Monolith 4F/4S/4E/6N with 5Dom 3O, 1M. Going to concentrate on efficiently buying troops. Unmarked as my main focus at the capital, followed by Nemedians and Firbolg javelin warriors and Fomorian warriors and Firbolg javelin warriors at others. Kings for main researchers and later as SCs, and Nemedian Champions for everything else, main troop leaders, stealth raiders, researchers when I can't afford Kings. Going to go Evo 3 for Air magic offence first, then alt 3, thaum 2, and encht 2,Con 4 to thug and SC, then back to Evo 5, and then conj all the way for death summons and unique summons like morrigans and bargest. Will be recruiting a lot of Druids to research and later to use as shocking mo-fos and Fomorian Champions to pray and then thug later on non-capital fortresses.

So Storm, lighting spells, and death summons, good bless, and dance of the morrigans, should be pretty tough. Pretty simple plan, but I think solid against AI.

So, when we starting this?

[Doo]

I've given the .map file to NT Jedi, just waiting on word back from him.

[endomorphious]

Good lord, I'm outclassed. Thankfully, this isn't a PvP game. My strategy is..uhhmmm...yeah.
1. Steal underpants. 2. uhmmm. 3. Profit.
Seriously you guys have really thought out your position well. I am waffling between an awake PoD with a 4E/4F and possibly 1 or 2 extra death. 10 Dominion. Scales are still up in the air, but I am leaning towards 03,S3,H3,G/D0,L/M0,D2.

Initial plan is rapid expansion with the PoD. Recruit lizardman elite for 2 more initial expansion parties (slow going from SP tests) then mass some chariots. Recruit Suaromancers as researchers.

Dash to Con4 for skull mentors. Begin Recruiting Shamans for research and to be skull monkeys. PoD comes back home as a forge peon. Skip the mid portion of the game.

Spam leviathan and take over the seas.

[Doo]

Good lord, I'm outclassed. Thankfully, this isn't a PvP game. My strategy is..uhhmmm...yeah.
1. Steal underpants. 2. uhmmm. 3. Profit.
Seriously you guys have really thought out your position well.

A lot of profit to be made in underpants, just ask Calvin Klein :)

I made an error in my thinking, I'm used to playing CBM where the Fountain of Blood gives +3 blood slaves per month for free, this doesn't happen in vanilla and it does make a difference to the speed of setting up the blood economy.

Also in a SemiRand test game, be prepared for an AI pretender decked out in good items in the early-mid game. I'm not sure what pretenders NT Jedi was planning but this can be a killer if your not prepared (or your mages spam phantasmal warriors instead of lightning. I HATE those summon phantasmal rubbish spells). While we are not playing I suggest you give the SemiRand a test run to see what it does.

Get it here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=521919&postcount=1).

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm not expanding quick enough in my practice runs. Going to go Evo 3 THEN Con 4 in research, get those thugs and SC's out sooner.

[Mauxe]

Better Independents 2.1 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39225)

a) in case someone else didn't have it already.
2) so i can grab it quickly for my other machine later.

[NTJedi]

Hey everyone... I should be finished within 12hours. I vanished for a few days because of work and girlfriend. Anyways I'm almost done.

[Mauxe]

ok.. I have read through a few posts and I have looked at the vsAI game list.. but I have not seen our game.. or I might be missing it.

Would someone give me either specific directions to upload my pretender or point me to a good set of directions?

It is possible we cannot upload yet. If so I will still need some guidance for when we can. I have played only on llama so far.

Mauxe

[Doo]

We need to wait for NT Jedi to be done with the .map file. Then its given to Gandalf Parker who creates the game on his server, which we upload our pretenders to.

Once I know we are ready to upload to Gandalf's I'll PM everyone.

[NTJedi]

Hey everyone... I should be finished within 12hours. I vanished for a few days because of work and girlfriend. Anyways I'm almost done.


Map file finished and sent to Doo

[NTJedi]

I recommend placing the supply setting at 250 or higher so the AI opponents are less likely to starve units.

[Doo]

Thankyou very much for your input on this NT Jedi.

If you ever need a kidney contact me :)

I've emailed Gandalf Parker to ask him to set up the game on his server.

Last chance to tweak your pretenders and download the Better Independents mod. Also be sure to have downloaded and installed the 3.26 patch.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Good lord, I'm outclassed.

Trust me, I'm terrible at this game. I wouldn't be surprised if I am not the first person out. Even against AI. And I've been playing pretty much since the game was released. But, I want to get better, so I hope this is a start.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Alright, uploaded my pretender.

[Doo]

Gandalf has informed me of the game being ready for our pretenders.

I've emailed or PM'ed everyone the log in details, please log in and upload. Note the game starts as soon as the last person uploads their pretender, can I ask whoever that is to post in this thread that the game is underway please?

Good luck everyone. NT Jedi has told me he's betting on a human win but is expecting the AI to be putting up globals and giving a strong fight.

NT Jedi is betting on us, lets not let the rest of humanity down, lets kick the AI back into the 286 age!

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Alright, this game has taken almost 3 weeks to set up, lets get started kicking some AI butt!

[endomorphious]

Hello everyone, Have my pretender ready to go but i need help in loading the mod. It seems to be in a DM format that my computer is not reading. Any suggestions for a program that can read it or suggestions on what Im doing wrong to load it.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

What happens to the game after the AI are destroyed? Do we turn on each other?

[Hrum]

Hello everyone, Have my pretender ready to go but i need help in loading the mod. It seems to be in a DM format that my computer is not reading. Any suggestions for a program that can read it or suggestions on what Im doing wrong to load it.

endomorphious, when you unzip the mod all that stuff you get (the folder and the various .dm files) goes in the mods folder of your Dominions install (for me, on WinXP that would be "C:\\Program Files\dominions3\mods\").

Just stick everything that you unzipped in that mods folder and launch Dominions. Then you should be all set - I don't think you even need to select the mod or turn it on or anything for Turbocharged. I think Dominions will know that we're using that mod when you login to dom3minions.com so you should be good.

However, if you just want to confirm that the mod is being seen by Dom3 after sticking it in that folder, you can launch the game, and from the first menu choose Preferences (? ...umm Options?) and then see a new list of sub-options one of which should be "Mod Preferences". If you see Better Independents listed as an option you can click on and enable, that means you're all set.

Alright, uploaded my pretender.

Nice!

Gandalf has informed me of the game being ready for our pretenders.

Ninja'ed! :p

I've emailed or PM'ed everyone the log in details, please log in and upload. Note the game starts as soon as the last person uploads their pretender, can I ask whoever that is to post in this thread that the game is underway please?

I have my pretender design all set; I'll upload it once I get home from work tonight. Didn't see this update yesterday - was out and about until kinda late, and when I got home the focus was dinner and sobering up before bed. ;)

Indeed - if I'm the last one (seems like I will be) I'll post here.

Good luck everyone. NT Jedi has told me he's betting on a human win but is expecting the AI to be putting up globals and giving a strong fight.

NT Jedi is betting on us, lets not let the rest of humanity down, lets kick the AI back into the 286 age!

Thanks to NTJedi for helping get this game up and running with extra AI evilness. And to Gandalf. And to Doo for starting this game in the first place.

I hope to not embarass myself early on with the monkeys. I think they tend to be weakest early on, so we'll see if I can make it to the tasty summons at which point I should (hopefully) be alright. Of course, with all the boosts the map tweaking team have made to the AIs with their buffed pretenders and whatnot, the AIs might be coming into their own just when I'm at my most (over)confident. Hopefully, I'll manage to do more than just fling poo at our adversaries. :)

What happens to the game after the AI are destroyed? Do we turn on each other?

I was figuring we'd just declare victory. I guess if some people want to celebrate by trying to smash each other, that's an option.

In any case, I look forward to waging war on the unholy ones with you gentlemen! Death to the AIs!

[Doo]

Yeah, Thanatus del Dragos must have been like an Olympic sprinter crouched at the line and itching for the starters gun to go off, I only emailed him like two minutes before I posted on the thread :D

What happens when the AI is kaput? Whatever we want! Thats what we are fighting for are we not? Freedom? :p

In playing SemiRand maps before being aware of potentially encountering an awake SC with free starting gear can be important. I don't know if NT Jedi has done this to us, so have a think how you might stop an early SC rush. I'm bee-lining straight to Evo-4 for Thunderstrike.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm thinking thunder strike and a swarm of Nemedians.

And, most of the time, I have nothing better to do other than hangout at forums at home or work...I do have a life, it's just not a very exciting one, and the girlfriend works nights, so she sleeps a lot when I'm on...so yea, I'm going to be posting a lot. No real threat of me taking a lot of time taking my turns either.

[Hrum]

endomorphious, when you unzip the mod all that stuff you get (the folder and the various .dm files) goes in the mods folder of your Dominions install (for me, on WinXP that would be "C:\\Program Files\dominions3\mods\").

Just to clarify, I didn't mean that it just lands there when you unzip the mod. You unzip the mod and move/copy all the files for the mod from whereever you unzipped it to your "dominions3\mods\" directory. There is no installer - you just unzip, move the files to the right place, and you're done.

Maybe that was clear already. I dunno. :)

I any case, my pretender is uploaded. It looks like we're just waiting on C'tis.

[Doo]

I'm thinking thunder strike and a swarm of Nemedians.

Nemedians probably won't hit often enough, although when they do it will be hard. We are talking Body Ethereal, Lucky and defense 22+ SC's...

Maybe NT Jedi has not been that mean.

Thunderstrike will do the job, as long as they are not resistant to lightning and the wizards don't spam Phantasmal Warriors/Wolves.

[endomorphious]

Sorry guys. Just can not get the mod to get recognized by Dom3. I've downloaded and unzipped like 5 times now both directly into the mod file and not and then manually moving it over after extraction. Any ideas on what Im doing wrong. I used to run mods on WoW so I've done this type of thing before. Not sure what I'm bungling right now.

[Gandalf Parker]

What operating system?
And when you connect to the game, what does it tell you?

[endomorphious]

Win Xp and it says i need the Mod installed. When i look for it under options the game isnt seeing it.

[Gandalf Parker]

Very strange.
Dont be offended but my first question is... where did you buy the game from?

You shouldnt HAVE to turn on the mod manually. But you might try going starting Dom3, going to Preferences, then to Mod preferences. You should now see a list of every .dm file that the game can see in your dominions3/mods/ directory (notice that its mods; not mod, Mod, or MODS)

if you put this in your web browser
file:///C:/Program%20Files/dominions3/mods
does it show you the .dm file? Can you click on it and view it?

[Hrum]

Endo, can you .zip up your Dom3 mods folder and upload that to the forums here (attach it to one of your posts with that paperclip button)? Then we can see what you've got in there.

Also, do you have more than one install of Dom3 on your box? Ie. did you make a backup copy of your Dom3 install when you went to patch up to 3.26 (or at any time previously)? Basically, you should confirm that when you're launching Dom3, you're launching the instance of Dom3 that you've been installing the BI mod to, and not some alternative copy of Dom3 (check the path in the Dom3 shortcut you use to launch the game).

[Mauxe]

Also - it has to be a fully "installed" copy of the game.
I know that with WoW you can make a backup of the game folder, drop it on any other computer, and play fine. It really helps when moving machines or re-installing an OS as the update process for a fresh install can be... tedious.

I tried the same with Dom3 (copied the game folder and dropped it onto my laptop) and the game would load but I could not do certaion things. My mods were already part of the package so I can't speak to that - but I was not able to complete a turn in the game I was playing. Once I installed the game from the install file everything worked fine.

[Doo]

The only thing I can offer is this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LanCLS_hIo4).

Try what has been suggested here and keep us informed of whats going on.

[endomorphious]

I'm running a legit copy of Dom 3 I bought direct from Shrapnel and it runs flawlessly except for this mods issue. The contents are in the "mods" folder but the game simply isn't seeing them there. I don't use a short cut with this game i load from the programs menu but I checked that path and it reads correctly (I believe..."C:\Program Files\dominions3\dom3.exe"). There aren't any other copies of the game on the computer and its a full install.

[NTJedi]

Win Xp and it says i need the Mod installed. When i look for it under options the game isnt seeing it.

The *.dm file should exist within the Dominions_3\Mods folder and then another folder should list the mod itself. When Dominions_3 first starts click "Preferences" and then "mod preferences" is where you should see it listed.


If my work was not so busy I would release a new version of my AI mod and also finish my Arabian Nights nation mod. :)

[Doo]

Yes, you should have the .dm files in the Dominions\mods folder, and then there should be a Dominions\mods\better_independents folder with three .tga files.

Is yours like this endomorphious?

[endomorphious]

Yeah its independant folder and then 3 TGA files inside. I have patch 3.26 installed. Frankly, I'm just getting really frustrated. It SHOULD be working, everything seems to be right. So I'm just wondering if this is a weird WinXP quirk on my machine. I'd probably blame the anti-virus but that shouldn't interfere with the program seeing it under its own Preferences option. Sorry guys maybe you can get someone else to pick up Ctis so you can get started.

[Hrum]

Well, it might take us a while to find an alternate (this game is a kind of special format and all). Besides, it would suck to have to replace you like that.

If you're game, maybe we can tinker a little more? I'm sorry you're frustrated (totally understandable) and I know you're not big into mods, but one test would be, can you successfully install other mods?

CBM1.6
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43949

EDM1.1
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45056

[Doo]

I agree, it wouldn't be nice to have to replace you under these circumstances. Try as Hrum suggested and see if any other mods work.

I'll advertise for another player this time tomorrow should you still have trouble.

Try uninstalling and then re-installing.

I just thought, technically you may be able to still play. The mod only effects recruitment costs of indies, thus if you don't recruit indies then you won't have any conflicts. If you do want to recruit indies we could tell you if you can or not (basic rule is if they are archers, yes, if they are crap melee, no, if they are good melee, yes. I believe all AI recruiting will be done at the server side and its the AI who recruits indies the most.

Its still worth a shot.

[NTJedi]

Two other ideas to help:

A) Start the Dominions game using the Dom3.exe file found directly from the Dominions folder. Let us know how this works.

B) Can you post screenshots of your Dominions directory, Dominions\Mods directory and the Dominions\mods\better_independents. Or even better if you can provide us a text file of your Dominions directory... if you don't know how to create one, then screenshots will work.

[endomorphious]

Alright then. NTJedi your trick with using the domexe directly worked. The program refused to see it until i loaded it that way. Strangely dichotomous behavior. It didn't see my previously made god for the game...like theres a shadow program or something. Anywhos's my god is posted and Im ready to conquer the world of the underpants.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Sweet, I played my turn! Turn 1 done!

[sansanjuan]

Good luck gang! I'll be lurking to read those AARs.
-ssj

[endomorphious]

ARrrrrgggh! Fixed one problem and now another one. Now its saying I don't have the right version of the game. The program says it has 3.26 and I reloaded it JUST to make sure. To play network I have to load it from the manual exe file as Jedi suggested. Help. LOL this is why I stuck to single player for a year straight.

[NTJedi]

ARrrrrgggh! Fixed one problem and now another one. Now its saying I don't have the right version of the game. The program says it has 3.26 and I reloaded it JUST to make sure. To play network I have to load it from the manual exe file as Jedi suggested. Help. LOL this is why I stuck to single player for a year straight.

Well the reason the dom3.exe worked from that specific directory is because there's two installs of the game on your system. If you do a search on all your partitions for Dom3.exe you should be able to find two of them.

You should be able to install the 3.26 patch and specify the exact path directory of where the Dom3.exe exists(where you clicked) and this will resolve the issue.

[endomorphious]

ok dokey. Jedi you were right. there were two versions ...one on each drive oddly enough. Deleted everything Dom3 and reinstalled everything. Working fine now and my first turn is done.

[Doo]

Excellent, we are underway....

Moonbabies: Sun AM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5LaMWsLpmg)

[Thanatus del Dragos]

What do the little crowns on the map symbolize?

[Mauxe]

Apologies for the delay - my power has been out since Tuesday evening.

Hopefully I will be able to get my laptop to wifi this evening and I'll send my turn in.

Actually, hopefully the power company has me up and running and I will be home taking my turn.

[Doo]

In the base map I think the crowns are victory points locations and the stars are provinces with better magic sites. For our game ignore them, they are just normal provinces.

[Hrum]

ok dokey. Jedi you were right. there were two versions ...one on each drive oddly enough. Deleted everything Dom3 and reinstalled everything. Working fine now and my first turn is done.

Huzzah! I'm glad we got this sorted out. :)

Got my turn in during the wee hours last night (thanks to Doo for the heads up).

Mauxe, sorry to hear about the power issues. :( Please let us know when you're back up and your turn's in.

[NTJedi]

I didn't place any victory points on the map. If memory serves me right... I recall Gandalf writing the crowns help spread dominion. So a province with five crowns will help dominion better than a province with one crown.
If the game was setup with a victory condition for crowns then a specific number of crowns could make someone win.

[Doo]

With five hours left before the turn plays Mauxe has yet to do his turn. I've emailed Gandalf asking for an extension of two more days.

In about four days time I have to go on a work trip and have asked Gandalf to extend the timer to four days to cover this trip.

*edit* just received a reply from Gandalf, the turn timer has been set by default to 80 hours. Cheers Gandalf :)

[Mauxe]

Power is back up.. heat is on.. internet is running.
I'll get my turn in tonight.

Thanks :)

[Mauxe]

ok. finished :)

[Doo]

Good to have you back Mauxe. Are you in bad weather?

[Mauxe]

had an ice storm for 2 days that knocked out power from Tuesday until Thursday night :(

Doing better now though.

[Hrum]

Mauxe, awesome that your power is back! I guess your Eagle Kings got a little careless with their shockwaves around your breakers, huh? You gotta keep those guys in check! ;)

FYI, if you're the last to submit your turn you can submit another one right away. Well, that is, if you end your turn and wait a minute or so while the new turn generates (hosts, whatever), you can do the next turn right afterwards.

My 2nd turn is in.

As expected, I'm surrounded by archers! Maybe one of these provinces around here will have some decent arrow catchers... :re:

[Doo]

A bit of info about SemiRand.

The provinces around your capital will be have standard indies, outside of this the provinces can have tougher indies. The toughest will easily beat a "standard" early expansion group. Always check the scouting report as the picture on the map won't always show the worst in the province. The number of indies in a province can be higher than normal. Also if a indie castle is under siege you will have to beat the siege force and a force inside the castle. The force inside the castle can be larger than the siege force.

From experience, any indie province with Devils in it should be left alone in the early game. There can be mini-SC's, such as the dragon that regenerates too many HP per turn.

Caution is advised if in doubt. Send in a commander set to Retreat and positioned at the rear of the set-up box.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Haha, I think becasue my starting spot got moved from 200 to 186, it kinda of messed up my neighbors. I've got an anry of trolls next to my starting spot, but also, 200 seems empty. I can handle it, I think :)

[Hrum]

Endo, please give us a heads up when you get your turn 2 in so we'll know the turn is cycling.

Probably a good habit for everyone to be in, posting here when you're the last to take your turn, unless dom3minions server can send people emails letting them know when a turn cycles?

[endomorphious]

I thought there was gonna be a delay of four days? Anywho's just posted my second turn. On of the choke points near me has 210+ Ryleh troops...I can't take it but doubt anyone else will be anytime soon :}.

Turn 3 posted as well

[Thanatus del Dragos]

No need to wait the entire limit of four days every time, especially on these early turns.

[Doo]

Sorry Endomorphious, probably my mistake. I will be leaving for a work trip tomorrow (at time of posting, I'm in Aus so currently eating my porridge before going to work :) ), it will last three days.

Just had the WORST battle ever. Standard Machaka looking indies, on the very first turn the indies shoot arrows and cast a single Vine Arrow. My guys retreat. Total and utter moral check fail. Also my commander was injured by the volley of arrows, gets the Limp affiction. Doesn't make it off screen. I'd cry if I were five years younger.

For the civilians back in the home province I'm going to say it was a battle-viewer fail, the commander actually bravely died in the first volley and thus the auto-rout. I'm the king of propaganda ;)

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Holy crap, I hope my guys did a better job than that! Stupid work keeping me from checking!

[Doo]

It might be a good idea to have a think about our general strategy.

Apart from Mauxe (Caelum) at 195 and myself (Tir na nOg) at 157 everyone else is separated by AI.

Thanatus del Dragos (Fomoria) at 186 has (possibly) a harder chance of linking up with Endomorphious (C'tis) at 18 due to essentially passing through 2 AI's, than linking with me through 210.

Hrum (Kailasa) at 36 possibly is the most hemmed in of the humans.

Mauxe probably has the best start with a shared border with me at 157 and a single AI target south.

We can hope Atlantis gives some strife to the other AI's.

If any human is aiming to cast a global they should declare it to everyone, thus saving research races between players.

Is there anyone unable to forge Hammers. Does anyone want specific items they can't easily forge? (Pendents of Luck for non-Astral nations?)

[Thanatus del Dragos]

My kings have sailing, so I might be able to jump over Atlantis. But I have more immediate threats. Like I said earlier, my starting spot got a little messed up since I was moved from 200 to 186 and half of my adjacent independence to my castle are of the unusually powerful sort. How tough is a draco lion? How about 50 trolls? My growth might be a little stunted for a bit.

[Hrum]

Turn 4 is up!

Agree, wouldn't hurt for us to talk about strategy.

Globals: I'm not beelining for any globals, though given that all my best summons are astral based I'll be looking to put up the astral gem generating ones (Stellar Focus in the medium term, and ultimately Arcane Nexus). That plus clamming should give me a more than healthy astral income, which will power my late game.

Tackling AIs: My medium term goal after grabbing as many indies around me as possible will be to stomp the AI on the southern continent that sits between me and C'tis (endomorphious). I want a border with someone friendly, and I think this will be the easiest way to get it. From the monkey perspective, the southern AI dies first. Or at least gets marginalized. If he gets stomped down to a tiny size, then he can be contained and ignored.

I don't like the submarine Atlantis AI. I don't have a plan for him yet (it'll probably be thugs / SCs), but those amphib nations can be a real pain. I'm just hoping he doesn't cause too much trouble until our research is high enough to provide some solutions.

Hammers: I can make hammers, once I've researched some constr. It wasn't the first thing I was going to research, but it's obviously on the list of things I must have. If noone else has easy access to earth paths, I can make hammers for you guys - I'll want some gems from you guys for them though. No markup though, I'll trade them to you at cost (which should be 12 gems once I've got my own hammers). :)

Trolls might be a problem. Or they might not. The trolls you get from the earth summoning spell are meh unless you buff them (big bags of regenerating hit points, with low att/def values - like 10/9 ?). The AI ones in Semi-Rand might be less crappy though - they might have some stars, or be a better class of unit to start with. And even the crappy ones can be a problem for units that don't have high enough def; Str22 + decent weapon means they will one hit kill most human troops. You went with a bless approach though, right? If you send enough sacreds you'll probably do well against them, but scouting might be in order. I like Doo's suggestion about sending a commander to attack with orders to retreat. Get some info - find out what you're up against before going after a (potentially) tough province like this one.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Well, I'm worried, becasue they also have those Moose knights? Is that what they are called? the trolls with the heavy armor that ride the mooses. Is mooses the right plural? Anyway, those guys are kinda scary to me, but I think I might just get a few blessed Giants in there and stop their asses in a few turns...what could go wrong?

[Hrum]

Moosen! :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxenUzZPFiQ
(Moosen bit starts around 1:35)

I think moose is the plural of moose, but thanks to Brian Regan I have trouble resisting saying moosen. :)

The Troll Moose Knights can do some damage (flail is 2 attacks I think, plus antlers and moose kick, that's 4 attacks from that square), but they aren't that much buffer than the other guys, and there probably aren't that many of them.

Don't go in until you feel you have enough guys, but when you do, you might want to set your line way back on hold and attack. Ideally their fast guys get to early and give you a couple rounds of seriously outnumbering* them to take them down before the rest of their line gets to the fight. You probably will take casualties in this fight (especially if the trolls have stars), but hopefully just a couple guys.

[Edit: And by seriously outnumbering them, I guess I actually mean not being horribly outnumbered yourself. What's your bless again? F4 E4 N6?]

Disclaimer: I've never played Fomoria before, so I'm not the best for gauging the strength of your dudes (your sacreds do not look like crap to me though - they look like they can kick butt actually). What's the prot of your Unmarked?

Are there other weaker provinces you can go for before the troll one?

What's your bless again? F4 E4N6?

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Yea there are two weak provinces next to mine, one was completely empty, took it first. My sacreds, even the size 4 ones, are in fact, bad ***. My Bless is a F4S4E4N6, which makes them even more bad ***. I think they have a prot of 16. A single Unmarked, even unblessed is better than a troll, and a blessed one is at least equal to moosen troll. But, I really want to keep casualties to a minimum.

[Hrum]

That's a pretty nice protection. Sounds like those guys would even warrant an E9 bless, but I guess that probably wouldn't be a huge improvement against these trolls - they do enough damage to get through even a prot 19-20.

I think your guys are going to take that fight, but send more if you're worried. Also, if you're using Unmarked (size 4 looks like), you could include some ablative size 2 dudes (Firbolg?) in the squad to take some hits. It'll lessen the number of attacks against your sacreds (~1/3 of the attacks on that square will go to the shorty), which will keep the def on your Unmarked from dropping down into scary land. The human sized troops are there to die, and if they provide any offensive assistance along the way that's a bonus. If you have some smaller guys with decently high def, they might even manage to duck that moose kick once or twice.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I could produce some Nemedians, they have a really high def and glamour, along with magic weapons with a solid attack...I'll deal with the trolls later. I need to research what a Draco Lion is.

Edit: Apparently the Draco lion is a big monster that regenerates with a crappy def. I can handle that, but going to send a commander in first.

[endomorphious]

completed turn 4 and posted turn 5...sigh didnt take a province last turn. It wasn't even a tough one, but the woodland archers chased of my supposedly scary PoD...pfaugh. At least he didn't die. I sent out a scouting party as suggested earlier in the thread...Thank goodness..found another HEAVILY npc owned site. A bloody red dragon with a horror helmet a lifelong protection and some other nonsense...I don't expect anyone to be plowing throw those two indies near me anytime soon.

Strategy for me is a skull mentor a turn once I hit con4, two of my good mages site searching instead of wasting gems on it (which is something i nearly ALWAYS do) but i have a feeling gems will be a scarce commodity soon enough. I plan on trying to get into the water soon as possible. Skellispam first and then leviathans. Globals..hmm I may target Well of Misery early on, I just wont get enough of them to do Behemoths, Leviathans, and skull mentors, and all the other goodies I could use.

I need to read up on thugs.

I could use input on taking out the dragon. Do you think 5 indie commanders with Botulf bows could take out that dragon?

[Doo]

Hmmmm.... You risk the time investing in the bows, plus the gems, plus the lost research and its not a certainty.

I'd like to get Con-4, forge some Nature magic boosters and cast Mother Oak or Gift of Health. I'm aware of the need to get some Thunderstrike or Orb Lightning spam action first.

Be aware that the AI could be a serious early game threat, even if its not a rush nation. If they have an awake SC pretender (already decked out in forged items like the Red Dragon in below post), coupled with starting with two forts and the gold bonus of the difficulty level, we will need a counter to that threat.

I'm thinking of aiming for the AI province of 210, Thanatus del Dragos and I could both strike at it. My other AI threat of Abysia on the southeast corner of the map has low strategic movement, I could send in some stealths to harass and delay in support of Mauxe.

I have no idea what Atlantis will do. I kinda think it should be ignored at the moment because it is not allied with the other AI's so we can assume it will drain their resources as much as ours (more so early as it shares closer borders with two other AI's). Those land AI's with two castles and buffed pretenders (and possibly buffed research potential) should be regarded as our main initial threats.

Of course it all depends on how Atlantis plays.

[Doo]

I'm off on the work trip, I've played my turn, see ya all in a couple of days!

[Hrum]

That dragon sounds nasty. In your shoes, I'd probably work around that province until in the course of achieving other objectives in the game I found that I had stuff to use on it. The dragon isn't hemming you in / keeping you from expanding is it?

I have to agree with Doo on the strategy of worrying about the land AIs first. No land nation is likely to perform well against a water nation for ownership of the water early in the game, even a land nation that has easy to come by amphibious units. And it isn't like the land AIs are going to ignore us. Speaking of which...

FYI, All, Niefelheim is the southern continent AI between me (Kailasa) and Endo (C'tis).

If Abysia is the SE AI, that means the Fomorians get to tussle with TC.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

My initial goal is to take the area West of that long river that goes from top down to the Atlantis sea. This area can be easily defended with just 3 more forts While I concentrate on that, I will be stealth preaching and maybe raiding 210/133 and harassing them, scouting them. And when ready, they will be my first target. Now, depending on how strong Atlantis attacks from the south or if 55/22 and Atlantis goes after our friend in 18, I may need to send troops that way.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I would say, that we need to plan for Atlantis, but we should not venture into the sea until we have contained the other land AIs. Right now they are an enemy of our enemies, and that makes them our friend. I plan on knocking them back into the sea when I see them on land, but I'm not going to divide resources between chasing them into the sea, (which would be an expensive venture for me), until I have secured my position versus Tian Chi.

[Hrum]

I would say, that we need to plan for Atlantis, but we should not venture into the sea until we have contained the other land AIs. Right now they are an enemy of our enemies, and that makes them our friend. I plan on knocking them back into the sea when I see them on land, but I'm not going to divide resources between chasing them into the sea, (which would be an expensive venture for me), until I have secured my position versus Tian Chi.One thing of note: In my experience the AI tends to take it as a declaration of war if you take a province from them. I don't think the AI understands the idea of a limited engagement / regional conflict. If you take a land province from Atlantis, you'll probably find yourself at war with that AI, who will attack all up and down the coast. If you do this too early, you may be the only nation he's at war with. Granted, he might still pick a fight with you anyway, even if you don't take provinces from him, but if you do I think it's a near certainty.

BTW, re: Trolls, I finally got around to installing the Debug mod (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36453), and it's quite useful. Out of curiousity, I tried to model your fight with the Trolls, based on what you've said here about your bless, and using a standard summoned troop of trolls as the OpFor (2 Moosen Trolls, 5 War Trolls & 10 Trolls).

Good news: It looks like 19+ Unmarked (plus a handful of furbolg) can take the trolls, but not without a few losses.

Bad news: A dozen or so Unmarked cannot take the trolls - Unmarked got stomped.

The trolls, it turns out, are really buff (any veterans reading this are probably laughing at my awesome statement of the obvious). The part I forgot about earlier was the protection. The lesser, "crappier" trolls have prot 15 (on the body, don't recall what's on the head) - that's pretty tough for a high hitpoint, regenerating opponent. The buffer ones (the War Trolls, and Moosen) have prot 23!! Zoinks! Your dudes with their Str20 and Dmg3 spears are only doing ~23 damage (+/- due to contested DRN). Umm, Houston we have a problem.

Also, while your dudes have some reinvig thanks to your E4 bless, your dudes still pick up fatigue faster than the trolls in my tests. Since no side claimed victory (or even a significant advantage) in the first round or two, it became a grind, and after a few rounds fatigue starts to come into play. Fatigue means crits, which (especially against high damage dudes like Trolls) means dead Unmarked. Unmarked get some crits in on the Trolls too, but it's a huge grind, with attrition being the deciding factor, so the side with numerical superiority will probably win.

Conclusion: Overwhelming force, or buffs / evocations are probably a good idea for this fight.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Giants. I need some Giants for this.

[Mauxe]

I have been slow to get things back in order after my power went out but I'm reconnecting now.

I am sitting mostly pretty in the NE corner of the map slowly building up 3 elephant/archer armies. I've taken a few provinces but I just realized that the river here has blocked my progress. Lizardmen and Mammoths ahead... unfortunately option #2 is a defended Ramparts...

Option #3 takes me along the northern border of the map. I'll head that way soon but for the moment I am bringing 2 forces together to wipe out the lizards in order to bypass the Ramparts for now.

My pretender is a dormant rainbow crone...I think. I may haave opted for a mage before realizing that the riding pretender mage does not have a foot slot :(

My strategy is to expand with military for a brief time until I have enough income to support a hastened research path. Forts and site-searching for another short bit with a bit of forging thrown in. A few key items that I am shooting for and I will be much better equipped to explode outward.

Of course... the AI may have other things to say about that.

[Doo]

I'm back and have played my turns.

Sitting at 5 provinces so far. I aim to start building my second castle either next turn or the one after that.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Damn Doo, you are way ahead of me, I've only got 3 provinces, but I have issues. Taking on the Draco Lion this next turn, wish me luck.

[endomorphious]

Just finished my turn. Have 4 provinces besides my capital. But, money is SCARCE :{ I've got 3 of the sites searched with 4F/4E/4D/1W/1N/4Priest and only found 1 site so far but its an ok one with 1 air gem and 1 fire gem. I took that single lake by me. Big mistake. It has like zip for income and only one troop to recruit but its a 9000gp modded indy...arggh...maybe I'll find a free fortress in there if I can ever spare a site searcher. Just now seeing signs of Jotunheim nearby looks like he'll be my first conflict down the road. How effective is skellispam against the giants? I dont think my nationals are gonna be up to stomping them in the numbers I can field.

[Hrum]

I gotta build me a fort too. Always so many things to spend the gold on... :P

Thanatus, I checked it's stats on the DB and I think you'll take that Draco Lion, assuming it isn't backed up by a surprise bunch of ?

Mauxe, once you hit evo2, are you thinking of doing the shock wave thing with your Eagle Kings? I've heard that some people like that as an expansion method with EA Caelum.

I don't how well skellispam will work on the giants. I've never tried skellispamming before.

Sounds like my expansion is in the same neighborhood as the rest of you (4 provs so far). Monkey arrow catchers have low morale and like to run off, even during a winning fight. It's par for the course, but it slows down expansion. And then there's me being cautious because of the random crazy stuff in some of these provinces. Of course, I did score some decent magic items off these guys already (earth boots, dusk dagger, shroud).

I'm doing an attack on a province w/ ~20 Ko-Oni this turn, and I'm going in without any blockers/arrow catchers. Just my Yavana flying solo (backed up by my prophet). I wasn't sure about the Yavana vs. Ko-Oni matchup so I ran a test w/ Debug Mod and All Ages Mod, and it turns out my blessed Yavana pretty much destroy Ko-Oni, so this should go fine (*finger crossed*). Of course I didn't do the scout / retreat routine beforehand, so hopefully there isn't some super scary surprise in addition to the Ko-Oni.

In other news, I need more scouts. I don't have a solid idea on how fast the AIs (specifically Niefelheim) are expanding. Lack of graphs can lead to blissful ignorance, or nail-biting depending on your temperament. :)

[endomorphious]

I agree. I am worried about how fast the AI's are expanding as well. I hope their running up against the tough indie's as well or things could get ugly fast. Deep down I just know the giants near me already have 12 provinces and they all have gold mines and amazons. But, then I'm an optimist.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Only lost one Firbolg against the Draco Lion. I've decioded to not fight the Trolls right now and turn the army north. I think the losses even if I won would be crippling right now. I am going to wait until I research a bit more and can shock their asses and have a good amount of giants to thump them.

[Doo]

With no graphs its creepy, not knowing how the AI's are going and wondering if you will come up against a Juggernaut.

I'm developing a real fear of the dark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nba3Tr_GLZU)...

[endomorphious]

I was the last to process on last turn so just letting everyone know I'm done. New turn posted as well. The NPC's just keep getting tougher and tougher. Found a celestial emperor with an 8 and a 9 in magic paths and a @$$load of magic items. Just a touch of curiosity is there ANY way to charm these guys? This Emperor would be worth gambling 10-15 charm capable units dying. Is there a tip or trick to do it for C'tis?

With any luck I'll be building my second castle soon. Seem to have found the -heim's Capital they have a Colossal Head. Money is soooo tight I really hope the AI's hold off on any rushes against me. Research seems to be going VERY slow compared to SP games. I've only reached midway in const 1 so far.

[NTJedi]

Found a celestial emperor with an 8 and a 9 in magic paths and a @$$load of magic items. Just a touch of curiosity is there ANY way to charm these guys? This Emperor would be worth gambling 10-15 charm capable units dying. Is there a tip or trick to do it for C'tis?



Dispossed spirits to paralyze yet not kill the target while nature mages are spamming charm. Also other units to keep him busy which won't kill the target such as vine men(not vine orgres).
However the tough part would be reaching level_7 Thaumaturgy before one of the AI opponents carelessly kill this treasure.

[endomorphious]

Thanks Jedi. With the number of really notable npc commanders I've seen in such a short time I'm fairly tempted to pursue this tactic.

[Gandalf Parker]

You might also add fly or blink (or those sandals) to a mage so they can jump to the back of the enemies forces and are more likely to target a commander with the spell.

But I find that Charm or Hellbind Heart are spells that work best in one-on-one situations. Scripted to a seducer, or an assassin, or used in the Arena.

You still might want to invest some army into knocking out some of his support units in case the spell causes him to do battle with his own troops. But I still get better results this way than trying to use such spells in combat.

[Hrum]

Turn 10 is up.

Endo, what magic paths did he have at 8 or 9?

The craziest indie province I've seen so far down in my neck of the woods is one to the NW of my capital. A lich leading ~50 undead (longdeads, ghouls, skeletons, etc) is the filler. There are 5 fossilized warriors hanging with that lich (size 4 undead, with prot 27 on the body, 20 on the head, MR15, Mor18, Att12, Str22). And along for the ride are 2 basilisks. Never encountered any basilisks before - that gaze is scary! A rg20 aoe5 attack, w/ prec 100, it does 15 AN damage! The good news is that MR negates, but still. Ow. So, I don't think I'll be attempting that province real soon.

I guess I should acknowledge the province w/ ~120 devils, amazons and fire elementals and fire snakes too. It's led by an arch devil and some demonbreds. I haven't even bothered to do a retreat scout on that province, it's too ridiculous for me to worry about yet. Also, no point in bothering with the retreat order for a province like this. Devils = dead scout on turn 1 of combat.

[endomorphious]

Just finished my turn but one more player left. That Celestial Emperor was lvl 8 astral and honestly dont remember the other, although I'm thinking it was nature.

Building my first castle this turn. NO money for anything else ...did find a nice batch of sites in my last province total of 5 gems produced from that one. Hit con2 so gonna load my pretender up with a horror helm, barkskin amulet, eye shield, errm and something else i think..cutting into my research for a turn but with how tough these indies are turning out to be, I really don't want to gamble him without some insurance.

I really want to work on the suggestions given for charming. So I'm gonna try and work out a plan for that. I don't think I can reasonably work my way into using hell bind heart due to NO blood access. Would very much like to trade for some blood slaves. Not sure what the usual gem per blood slave ratio is typically in trades?

I'm thinking a group of 10 C'tis shamans with boosters to N3 spamming Charm. With vine men as guards so as not to kill the lovely future slaves. Should I equip them with Vine shields as well? If I can get enough blood slaves I'll work on making BlackHearts, but rather hate the idea of "wasting" them on the shamans. Isn't there a Summon Succubus spell? Can't seem to find it in the manual.

Hmmm alot of mental energy on a secondary objective...lol need to focus on what will work against the giants when it finally moves to war.

[Mauxe]

I just took an indie fortress.
so that was nice.

[Hrum]

I just took an indie fortress.
so that was nice.

Nice! I'm jealous! :)

Turn 12 is up.

Congrats to TNN for picking up the Renegade Sage. I guess I didn't bid high enough. :)

AI intel in the south:

Atlantis has made landfall - he's got a pair of provinces on the coast of the southern continent (on NE coastline - provs 65 & 68).

Niefel's southern fort (22) has so far only managed to expand into 5 neighboring provs (that I can see, moving scouts up to see if he has done more westward expansion crawling the southern edge of map); he hasn't done any northward or eastward expansion in the last few turns. Looks like he's blocked from expanding further north on the east side of the great north-south river by 2 provs: 1st is the province I previously described (fossil warriors and basilisks) and the 2nd is a troll province (~40 trolls).

As of turn 12, I've got 11 provinces. In a few turns I will have conquered all of the indies I reasonably can at this point, and the easiest expansion at that point will be through an AI. My choices are Abysia to the east or Niefelheim to the west. I'm just starting to scout Abysia; I've got eyes on his fort at 54 and he hasn't done any expanding south, not even the provs neighboring his fort. I think Niefel is the way to go, since he threatens both C'Tis and I. Atlantis has a pair of provinces along the coast to the north of me, but I have no intention of starting a war with him.

My first fort just started going up last turn (turn 11), but it's a hillfort so it's cheap and quick to build. My research has been really pitiful, but now that my income is starting to be decent, I should be able to crank out a few forts and pick things up. I'm stumbling along towards alt3 (once I'm done researching alt2, that is), and then I'll start on construction research so I can get hammer production rolling (and I can kit out thugs). And oh yeah, site searching. I should get on that. :o

Last turn the monkeys and the sacred yavana, along with their newly recruited human light infantry (arrow catchers!) defeated a province defended by several sages and a great sage. The great sage was an astral mage of tremendous power (s7, 8 or 9 - not sure if the path boost from communion or banner shows up..? he was showing s10 thanks to the gear), but the spells he chose to employ against my forces weren't all that effective (mindburn spam). The monkeys were pleased to relieve him of 3x slave matrixes, a crystal matrix, a starshine skullcap, a banner of the northern star and one pair of boots of the messenger. Not a bad haul. I suppose with enough research there might have been a way to turn him to the service of the monkeys and their god, but that wouldn't happen any time soon so it was decided to put him to the falchion and let the monkeys take his stuff. Slave matrixes are shiny. :)

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Atlantis has made landfall on my continent too. My growth has been slowed due to the Trolls on my doorstep, but in 2 turns, I will have researched Alt1 and Evo2, and will send in 3 giant kings spamming thunder and 15 giants and 15 unmarked to destroy them all.

[Doo]

Done my turn, new turn up.

Dagan was a priority for Astral, I'm recruiting Mictlan indy mages in my second castle hoping to get the 10% +1 Astral or +1 Fire types. If I get the Astral I'll let Dagan go without any fuss. Of course you could try and outbid me on him, not much I can do about that ;)

Niefelheim is sieging an indy castle at 77.

At turn 12 I'm at 9 provinces (including starting province). I was blocked from going towards Tien Chi by tough indies, now I see there is a port route from 130 to 159. I'll go that way.

Research-wise, I've done Alt 1 and Evo 1 and 2. I've found a 20% bonus Conj site for future summons.

My pretender has just awakened.

All is good.

[endomorphious]

Turn 13 done. Posted turn 14.

Sigh kinda hemmed in by Niefel and tough indies. I have to choose between the dragon and his lackluster minions and a devils/scorpionman/chaff indie to attack all out. Dragon indie would allow me a narrow expansion area until Niefel hems me in...he's focusing very heavily along the south from what little i can see...50 unit expansion squad. couldn't scout it. I'll post exact numbers on the two indies next turn doing the retreat scout thing again to get the comparison. I've not taken a province in two turns and its starting to get worrisome. Have researched con3 though. YAY dwarven hammers..now if i just had the earth gems and not still using my pretender to expand/search.

I was reading the stickie thread regarding how to combat Niefel, and a specific mention of C'tis using Darkness and skellispam was mentioned. Was gonna focus on con6 and then Thaum7 for charm but now thinking I should go straight to Darkness. On a side note i saw mention of an amulet that was referred to as the skellispam amulet. Is it that week little one that only cast animate skeleton for one skellie? Is it even worth the waste of the gems? All my sauromancers can cast animate skeletons and that just seems to be a better way to go by far. But i could field some indie commanders with the amulets if they were considered to be helpful.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm sending socuts, and I think Tien Chi is moving toward Tir, not me. I don't see them expanding my direction yet.

[Mauxe]

I am just slowly expanding in my own little world up here to the NE. My Caelum has a little slower expansion method but then it gets rolling. Right now I am probably at about 9 provinces.

My pretender has awoken and I saw immediately that I utilized version 1.0 of pretender design. Currently my Caelum design is up to 2.0 which will be a set-back but should be fine.

(1.0 is the mage-on-a-horse who does not have any boot wearing feet to speak of - this puts a damper on my +E boot strategy. 2.0 uses the crone who is slower... but she gets there on her own two feet. I have a second method but it just takes a little bit of time. Luckily due to my starting location it looks like I have that.)

Also - now that my initial expansion armies are built up I am able to start my research spam - which is essentially Eagle Kings (with the occasional...uh.. guy I can'r recall but only costs 80 gold.. for when I need to bolster a few more troops).

Looking fwd: to how this plays out.

[Doo]

Tien Chi is in 108 and surrounds but not on 101 (a port to cross to the southern lands).

[Hrum]

No worries on Dagan, Doo. You outbid me fair and square. I was just looking for more research, but there are better long term solutions (more forts!). I actually have lots of access to astral with the monkeys, so you can probably put Dagan to better use than I could. For some reason I thought he had some air. I think I was confusing him with Obscuro.

You found some indie mages! Nice! Maybe I shouldn't tell you this, since you're trying to crack into astral, but I have crystal sorceresses right outside my capital. Only just conquered that province, and discovered I can recruit them. They're a1s1. :D

Interesting intel on TC surrounding 101. Hopefully Niefel keeps possession of 77 for the time being, so we don't have to worry about TC crossing over to the southern continent and helping Niefel against C'Tis.

Endo, I've never given any of my guys skull talismans, but it looks like you get a single skeleton to start, and the ability to cast animate skeleton for a single additional skeleton per cast. That spell takes 30 fatigue, so on a non-deathmage commander who has no re-invig, you'll probably get 4 castings before he stops, so that's 5 skellies per commander w/ a skull talisman. Doesn't sound overwhelming. I guess if you have a large death gem income having 10 indie commanders with these (for 30 death gems, if you're using hammers) for 50 extra skeletons per fight could make a difference in some fights. I would think you'd still want some death mages along to cast the better skelliespam spells to fill out the ranks, but maybe the talismans mean you can leave one or two of the mages you would've brought at home so they can continue researching..? I've never played C'tis or tried the skelliespam thing, so this is all just me thinking out loud about something I have no experience in. :)

Atlantis attacked Niefelheim in prov 60. Niefel is laying siege to an indie fort there, and I guess Atlantis wants it too. Atlantis sent a pitifully small force though (4 coral guards & 3 deep one spearmen, backed up by 6 indie archers), given the Niefelheim force (a baker's dozen of living pillars, a gygja, and a niefel jarl). The living pillars are sz3 sacred amphibious units, decent armor and shields, and they seem to do well with Niefel's bless (a4f4d9e9n4), but then who wouldn't? Niefelheim won that fight easily.

In any case, it looks like those 2 have started irritating each other.

Which is good, IMO, because Niefelheim is actually pretty big. He still hasn't linked his 2 starting forts, but regardless, looks like his total province count is in the 15-16 area. And between his native jotun skinshifters and these sacred amphibious troops, he's got some buff guys stomping around.

Abysia's southern fort continues to wallow - no expansion. I have a scout pushing north to investigate how well he's expanding up by his northern fort.

On the monkey home front, my 1st fort is up, 2nd & 3rd building. My research is starting to suck less thanks to my pretender who is now awake and the new fort(s). I'm mobilizing for war with Niefelheim.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm finally going after those trolls. Wish me luck. Only 20 soldiers going in, bu more than half are Fomorian Giants, and the rest are unmarked. Prophet to bless, Giant King and Nemedian Sorceress to cast Aim and lightning bolt spam. Hope it works.

[Doo]

Done my turn, new turn up. Good luck with the trolls :)

I have Dagan, then remembered my pretender has 4S magic, still he has better stuff to do than spam Pendants of Luck.

I tried attacking two Sauromancers (with indie chaff) and they Skelli-spammed my army. I'm trying again but with merc archers (in White). With no chaff guard they should go down.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

The Trolls kicked my ***!

[Doo]

Game summary for Tir na n'Og from turn 1 to turn 16:


It begins...

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/Turn1Itbegins.jpg

I'm not going to devote much time on reporting these early turns, here is a brief summary. Basic strategy is to recruit lots of these..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t0sidhewarrior.jpg

led by these..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t0sidhechampion.jpg

For research I'm looking to recruit these when I can afford it..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t0tuathasorceress.jpg

but when low on gold I'll recruit these instead..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t0beansidhe.jpg

Expansion occurs, I avoid the tough looking indies, still run into some tougher indie leaders that cause some surprise..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/T5battle.jpg

To combat these tougher indies I recruit elite mercenaries to support my armies..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t7foulmercenary.jpg

What?!?!

At least I only spent 45 gold on this... guy? Lets say goodbye..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t8mercleaves.jpg

Ha Tien Chi, he's missing seven of his fellow freaks!

Site searching we find many goodies including this..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t11site2.jpg

Should I rush the Queens of Stone Age (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9WOBsPVjFE)? No, Tir na n'Og doesn't have enough Earth access to rock out.

Turn 12 arrives and the hero of our game is found..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t12stealthcommander.jpg

My first indie stealth commander, oh thank the gods! No wait, thank this guy..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t12ChristheSheep.jpg

His back-story: Chris was a wizard who longed to be a sheep. Being a wizard is fraught with danger, you get sent into battles to be mere communion slaves. I have yet to see a single sheep in battle in the Dominions universe. Thus the desire to be a sheep. Unfortunately Chris was not of Mictalan, but he was no turkey when it came to the magical arts and was able to transform himself into a lich. His next transformation will be to a lich sheep, and then to his dream of being a sheep.

Also on turn 12 we win a bidding war..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/T12daganrecruit.jpg

and have..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t12dagan.jpg

Astral access. I forgot Chris has Astral, but who cares when on his first turn of searching Dagan finds..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t13daganscores.jpg

Totally worth it!

Such heroes attract heroes..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t15Lugharrives.jpg

10% forge bonus and fire access :)

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t15lugh.jpg

We got stomped by two Sauromancers spamming the undead, these ladies are hired to help out..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t15archerswhite.jpg

Which brings us around to turn 16. Graphs are off so no sneak peaks as to where I am compared with others, instead here is my gem income..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t16gemincome.jpg

research..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t16research.jpg

and map..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t16end.jpg

[Mauxe]

Darn... I think my peaceful life might now be shattered...
I took a province the same turn that Abysia did and ended up spanking them.
Don't think the AI is going to take kindly to that.
Will the AI accept gems or something as a gesture of peace?

[Hrum]

Sorry to hear about the unsuccessful sally against the trolls, Thanatus. :( I think you said early on that there's about 50 of them, is that count accurate? What's the breakdown (How many Moosen? War trolls? Trolls?)?

Darn... I think my peaceful life might now be shattered...
I took a province the same turn that Abysia did and ended up spanking them.
Don't think the AI is going to take kindly to that.
Will the AI accept gems or something as a gesture of peace?

No idea. Once things spark off, it may be impossible to dissuade the AI from waging war. If you send him gems, he may well use those gems against you.

In any case, if you're capable of spanking his troops, why not continue doing so?

FYI, he isn't doing anything currently with his southern fort. Doesn't appear to have been very successful in linking the two - the southern fort that he started with has to date done no expansion whatsoever. So you're basically just dealing with the northern instance of Abysia. Kick his butt.

How's your evo research looking? What's your army composed of?

[Hrum]

Turn 17 is up.

AI news: The war between Niefel and Atlantis rages! Atlantis has kicked Niefel off of the siege of the indie for in 77, and is now sieging that fort (no intel on force composition at this time). Atlantis has also moved in behind Niefel's line of advance along the coast, and now surrounds Niefel's army which continues to siege the indie fort in 60.

The PD in Abysia's southern province finally noticed my scout and put an end to him. I am sending a new scout to keep an eye on them.

Kailasa update: I continue to prepare for war with Niefel. My army is forming up, and once my border fort is complete I intend to attack. I'm thinking that while Niefel's northern presence is being harrassed by Atlantis, his southern holdings are vulnerable and (hopefully) forfeit. I'm not particularly eager to take his norther stuff yet though, since I like having him (and those tougher indie provs) as a buffer between me and Atlantis.

Unfortunately, in my home province a foolish young monkey played with alchemical reagents he should not have and burned down my lab. The lab is being rebuilt, but this will prove an annoying delay in my research, which wasn't looking to set any records as it was.

[endomorphious]

Turn 17 done Turn 18 posted.

Lost my prophet :{ But took a tough devil/scorpion beast province. Turn 18 saw me crank out 7 skulls and Im gonna rush madly to Darkness for some skellispam against Niefel. Hmmm just had a thought on how to solve a problem with my northern fort. Niefel is massing right next to my border. Fortunately I have strong heat scales, hadn't really considered a DOM push but now that I realize our heat scales are diametrically opposed I shall give it a definite go. I have strong H3,although expensive, they should do me a good turn preaching.

I've got a few spare fire, water, earth gems for trade/sale also if anyone has a dire need.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm low on man power, lost some troops fighting an indie that surprised me with some winter wolves. Atlantis is moving north on land, but I'm, not too worried. Third fort being built. I'm not in a lot of danger from the AIs as of yet.

[Doo]

Turn 17 done Turn 18 posted.

Lost my prophet :{ But took a tough devil/scorpion beast province. Turn 18 saw me crank out 7 skulls and Im gonna rush madly to Darkness for some skellispam against Niefel. Hmmm just had a thought on how to solve a problem with my northern fort. Niefel is massing right next to my border. Fortunately I have strong heat scales, hadn't really considered a DOM push but now that I realize our heat scales are diametrically opposed I shall give it a definite go. I have strong H3,although expensive, they should do me a good turn preaching.

I've got a few spare fire, water, earth gems for trade/sale also if anyone has a dire need.

Let us know how you go, I kinda feel that for some of us its getting to an exciting point in the game. Have you researched Skelli-spam yet?

I'm low on man power, lost some troops fighting an indie that surprised me with some winter wolves. Atlantis is moving north on land, but I'm, not too worried. Third fort being built. I'm not in a lot of danger from the AIs as of yet.

I am on your side of the map now and will be ready to help against Tien Chi when the time comes.

[Hrum]

Turn 19 is up.

Turn 18 AI info:

Atlantis' bless:
f9 (att +4, flaming weap)
w9 (def +4, quickness)
e10 (reinvig +5, prot +4)
b9 (str +4, death curse)

War between Niefelheim and Atlantis continues. Atlantis took another coastal province from Niefel with the following raid force:

Atlantis Raiders (defeated weak Niefel PD + 2x Hvy Cav)
16x Ichtyid Warrior
10x Deep One Spearmen
3x Coral Guard

Atlantis also repelled a Niefel attack on 77 (the indie fort that Niefel had been sieging before Atlantis killed the siegers last turn). TC is in on the action as well, attacked that same prov 77 from the dock prov 101 right after Niefel, but failed to defeat Atlantis who continues the siege. The forces were:

Atlantis Siegers (victorious / continues siege)
12x Living Pillar
1x Coral Pr
1x Mother of the Deep
1x Basalt King

Niefel (defeated / repulsed)
7x Huskarl
2x Hirdman
7x Wolf Tr Archers
led by 1x Gode & 1x Skratti

TC (defeated / repulsed)
28x Horse Brother
21x Hvy Foot (Glaive)
6x Foot (Glaive)
6x TC Archers
10x Indie Archers
10x Jag Tr Warr
led by Indie Cmdr & Noble Cmdr (chariot)

Those living pillars are buff! They pick up fatigue at a crazy rate (10 enc in melee), but the high earth bless mitigates that a bit (half thanks to reinvig 5). They also have a crappy MR of 8, but after that it all looks good. Their prot is really high - prot 23, 26 w/ bless & decent shields, they have 2 attacks (bite, plus magic basalt spear), Str 18, Sz 3, 31 HP, morale 16 base (all these guys had experience). All that in a sacred amphib unit, w/ castle def, darkvision and cold & fire resist 50. Dag, that's some good troop. And apparently there's an indie province w/ them somewhere around here, because Niefel was fielding some of these earlier.

Kind of crazy, but the TC Noble Cmdr w/ his chariot killed a group of 3 Living Pillars via trample off in a corner while the main group was destroying his army - I wonder how he would've fared against the main group instead of that undersized squad of outliers. They probably would've torn him to ribbons. Amusing to watch the weak size 4 trampler take out 3 buff size 3 heavy sacreds. :)

Turn 19 AI info:

And so now Atlantis has taken 101 from TC, and defeated the TC attack on 77 (meaning the TC army of a dozen or so Horse Brothers and small handful of infantry was destroyed when it routed for lack of a place to rout to).

Atlantis attacked Niefel at the indie fort in 60 again.

Atlantis (defeated)
16x Reef Dwellers
19x Deep One Spearmen
5x Coral Guards
handful of Indie Lt Inf & Archers
led by Mage of the Deep, Mthr of the Deep, 2x Coral Priests & 2x Shambler Chiefs

Niefel (continues siege)
13x Living Pillars
4x Skinshifters
1x Niefel Giant
1x Coral Guard
led by a Gygja & a Niefel Jarl (who is now blind)

At the start of the fight in 60 Niefel's Skinshifters rushed in with the Niefel Giant (unblessed) and the Niefel Jarl while Niefel's Living Pillars waited to receive blessing. While the Skinshifters started killing, the Atlantis Mage spammed blindness until he scored on the Niefel Jarl (ouch!). Then the Living Pillars arrived to claim victory. 2/3 of the Atlantis army was destroyed. On Niefel's side, only one Skinshifter survived, and his Niefel Jarl is now blind; otherwise a clean victory.

All these fights are proving that in brief fights at least these Living Pillars really do some good work. But aren't those native Atlantis troops? Where did Niefel get them from?

Abysia scouting up in the NE - my scout can see Caelum territory on the border w/ Abysia. Abysia really is small - he has only the provinces surrounding his fort in the north; has yet to cross the river next to his capital in 99. When last seen, the southern fort still wasn't expanding. Confirmation will be had in the next turn or two as the new scout arrives.

Atlantis has likely made landfall on those eastern shores, but no confirmation of that.

Niefelheim has shown up on my NW border by defeating one of the 2 tough indie provs there (the 2x basilisks w/ 5x fossilized warriors plus small horde of undead chaff). I haven't begun my war with Niefelheim yet - will he preempt me?

[Doo]

I've yet to see Atlantis on land south of me.

Interesting Abysia is doing little.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Tien Chi is moving toward me on my eastern front. They are one turn ahead of my expected schedule and might cause a disruption in my plans. A disruption!

Atlantis is moving north on land, still not worried, they will just make my expansion south easier I think.

[Mauxe]

I am pushing south into Abysia now. My expansion army should make short work of the provinces I can currently see - and it sounds liek there isn't much more to worry about. (I don't have a good scouting network with Caelum).

I lost two back to back battles with some indies with my northern expansion army - along with my commander. I whittled them down to just one wraith lord (I think) - but I need to mount another force there soon.

I am in a nice spot in the NE where there are enough rivers and mountains blocking passage that my entire stretch of provinces only has 3 access points.

[Doo]

I saw that province with only one wraith lord, I am one province away.

[Mauxe]

You can go ahead and take it if you'd like.
I'll redirect my northern force down to Abysia.
That fight proved tougher than I anticipated...

[Doo]

Turn 21 is up.

Hows everyone going so far?

I'm intending upon doing this type of game again and would appreciate some feedback about how your finding the pacing, level of AI threat (perceived and/or real), the slower research and anything else worth commenting on.

[endomorphious]

Well killed an Atlantian scout at my castle in province 56 so their a very aggressive AI and I don't doubt I am on their very near future hit list. Just took province 10 which Niefel had expended ALOT of troops on prior turn so I met typical normal troops and only 1 devil this time. Then they attacked me, soooo not sure if the AI will take it as war or not.

Really, and I mean REALLY starting to hate this mod. The new province I just captured only has two barbarian units and both 9k to recruit.

Building my third fort in the extreme south. Having to waste some death gems on summoning some black servants. But have one equipped with bane venom charm and I'm going to use him to weaken Niefel's capital. My second keep is isolated from my main province keep so hard to get a decent recruitment of mages started there but hopefully next turn i should have a sauromancer there to build a lab. Seriously considering an all out push into Niefel's territory considering his fight with Atlantis.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I don't like the better independents mod either.

I'm scared of the AI. I'm Scared of the independents, lol. I have yet to clear the independents around my starting point due to how hard they were, that kind of blows. Otherwise, I'm having a lot of fun.

[Hrum]

Mauxe, I saw that fight you had with Abysia a turn or two ago - the one in which your elephants turned and routed through your Spire Horn Archers. It looked rough. :(

You haven't solicited any advice on this, so feel free to tell me to go stuff it (maybe you already know this stuff), but I noticed something and thought I'd share. That army you sent againt Abysia had a decent chance of stomping them, or at the very least doing a lot more damage. Mammoths are great for cracking heavy infantry (if you send enough of them - in small numbers they can still be mobbed). However, there were 2 problems with that army as I see it:

1. Too many archers.
2. Starvation.

1. Archers aren't likely to perform very well against Abysia. You're going to see a lot of heavy infantry from Abysia, with prot in the mid teens and many of them have shields. These kinds of guys will largely ignore archer fire. Sure a lucky shot will get through here and there, but in general those heavily armored boys aren't going to be much hampered by the arrows bouncing off their armor. Your mamoths are a different story. Their protection is down around 10, isn't it? That's low enough that they could take some serious damage from your volleys, and since tramplers get right in among the enemy, the arrows will be falling all around them.

2. Starvation is an army killer. It looked like all the guys you had in that fight were diseased, in many cases with additional afflictions besides. Starvation causes disease, and also lowers morale by 4! Your mamoths and all your archers were in single digit morale (what was it - morale 6 on the archers, 8 on the mamoths?). No army will give a good account of itself with morale like that.

That area where you're fighting has a lot swamps, which are really low supply. Best thing would probably be to forge some bags of wine or cauldrons of broth. I have nature mages and can forge some for you if you need.

I'm intending upon doing this type of game again and would appreciate some feedback about how your finding the pacing, level of AI threat (perceived and/or real), the slower research and anything else worth commenting on.

Overall, I'm enjoying myself so far. :) More specifically...

Semirand: The tough indies from semirand have been amusing, but my feelings on them are mixed because I think they've really hampered AI expansion. Usually at this point in a non-semirand game (Winter of 2nd yr), I'd be in a fight to the death with at least one AI, but as it is it seems like they're still sorting out their borders and dealing with indie provinces. Obviously Atlantis and Niefelheim have both done reasonably well in expansion (I don't have intel on TC), but Abysia seems to have been really hampered. This is all really a feeling though. As buff as NTJedi apparently made these AIs, they may yet come out bigger than I realize (and I do expect dealing with Atlantis to be tough), but at this point my confidence is high. Net result, thus far I think semirand has entertained me greatly, but also helped me in keeping the AIs at bay while I get my research up to spec. So don't take this as a complaint, having to be careful / creative during expansion has been interesting. However, I think it may've messed up the AIs a bit.

Hard Research: No complaints. I don't have a feel for the level of research by the AIs, but I feel like it is slowing down the players in becoming uber. I think the pain of this would be more acute on a non-semirand map.

Graphs: I think graphs on would be a good thing, just in terms of measuring the state of things / how well the AI is performing. I can scout out their province growth, but I don't have a good sense of how they're doing in other respects. In a game where you're doing experiments and trying to gauge how well things come together, it'd be easier to see how well this stuff is working if we had graphs.

Better Independents: BI can be a pain for Kailasa. The monkeys are seriously vulnerable to archers, and so more archers is never good news. On the other hand that can present a challenge, and I knew to expect it from the word go. I haven't actually experienced the mega archer horder yet, though, since I'm not yet at war with the AI. BI also means that it's harder to find indie chaff that's recruitable. Some nations don't care about that because their national troops are so much better than indies, but I think Kailasa likes to recruit indies for niche uses. IMO, indie light infantry with their shields make better arrow screens than any monkey troops, but BI makes about half of these unavailable (you can only recruit the ones with javelins - the no javelin types cost 9K). Finding a province with the right kind of light infantry that has enough resources to recruit a decent number (especially with my sloth scales) isn't easy. I lucked out on finding a prov that yields a decent number, but I could just as easily still be hunting for them.

On the other hand, anything that weakens the players while simultaneously improving the AI is probably still worth doing for a game like this. The worst is when you stomp the AIs with no difficulty at all - game over. If the game is presenting us with a challenge, BI probably deserves some credit for that.

I'm scared of the AI. I'm Scared of the independents, lol. I have yet to clear the independents around my starting point due to how hard they were, that kind of blows. Otherwise, I'm having a lot of fun.

Exactly. Scared of the AIs is a thumbs up for the AI buffing. Scared of the indies is a thumbs up for semirand. Scared is good. :) Frustrated is bad. I haven't been frustrated yet - and there has been some fear. That's an overall thumbs up.

AI Buffing: Thumbs up to Doo and NTJedi. :) I haven't been able to measure the full effect of this yet, but in the scouting I've done and battles I've watched, I think the tailor-made AIs are much better than the random AIs you normally get in SP (at least Atlantis and Niefelheim look pretty kick @**). I think all the AIs would've fared better without semirand, but that's just my impression at this point. We'll see how it goes...

AI Numbers / Teams: I know I'd be sweating things more if we had another AI or two on this map, and/or all the AIs were teamed (ie. if Atlantis wasn't distracting Niefelheim). Don't know how the other players feel about this, but Kailasa is actually getting a lot more breathing room than expected since the AIs are busy messing with each other instead of me.

[Mauxe]

I do appreciate the feedback. I'm still fairly new to the game and a lot of things still elude me...

Generally I get that "starving" message right after conquering a province. Is the only way to prevent that having supply items (or a smaller army)?

Is there a way to reverse the diseased troop process?

[Hrum]

If your army eats more supply than what's produced by the province you're in, you get the starvation message. Insufficient supply for even a single unit will give you that message, but how many units actually suffer starvation (and get diseased as a result) I believe to be related to how much the needs of your army exceed the available supply. In other words, if you're only a couple of points over the supply limit of a province, you're probably OK (just don't dawdle there). If your army wants double the available supply, you're in trouble. The exact ratio where it becomes a serious problem - that I'm not so sure about.

Here's a thread that talks about starvation:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35873

Is there a way to reverse the diseased troop process?

The short answer is no.

The global Gift of Health removes afflictions on all friendly troops within your dominion. The unique artifact The Chalice heals afflictions of units that reside in the same province as the unit that holds it. And some units in the game have the healer ability, which allows them to heal units. Some nations have healers as recruitables (Arcoscephale & ?), otherwise if you have high level nature mages and a lot of conjuration research you can summon Faery Queens.

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Faerie_Court
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Priestess

With the possible exception of Gift of Health (and that only when you're operating in friendly dominion), in general if your army is heavily diseased, it's toast. Most human sized troops don't have enough health to survive long enough for you to do anything about it once they become diseased. 10 HP goes away really quickly.

[Doo]

Most human sized troops don't have enough health to survive long enough for you to do anything about it once they become diseased. 10 HP goes away really quickly.

Once they get diseased they automatically rack up other afflictions as well.

Its not uncommon for a diseased unit to have its arms fall off. Disease in the world of Dominions is rough.

[Hrum]

Turn 23 is up.

[Doo]

Turns 17-23

Refresh: Up to this point I can say I'm happy with where I'm at, which is easy to say when you have very little idea how everyone else is doing, graphs are turned off ;)

No real contact yet made with the enemy, its been an indie bashing extravaganza.

Our pretender Chris the Sheep has awoken and the hero Lugh joined our worthy cause. So had the mercenaries Dagan the Renegade Sage and the Archers in White.

Or they were with us, on turn 18..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t18Daganlost.jpg

and

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t18WhiteArcherslost.jpg

Losing Dagan is a blow as apart from Chris the Sheep no other Tir na n'Og character has native Astral access. I simply forgot to bid on him.

However on turn 19..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t19daganreturns.jpg

Seems everyone else is forgetting to bid too :)

In a fit of role-playing frenzy I lock Dagan in the magical workshop to forge items, never to be released again.

Has anyone wondered why he is the "Renegade" sage? I googled him and found he is actually a hip hop artist who aims to be able to cast (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ptte1tMcaY) Master Enslave. A challenge to any reader, at a base Astral level of 1S, what would Dagan have to do to be able to cast Master Enslave?

Bet you can make me love you? Dagan I already do :p

On turn 20..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t20battlevsTC.jpg

Neither Tien Chi or myself wanted this, we both targeted the same indie province.

The Tien Chi force..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t21TCforcescouted.jpg

As a benevolent human I sent Tien Chi a message stating that we hoped humans and AI's could live in peace.

Elsewhere scouts report on an indie province..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t22indiedefence.jpg

Their leader..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t22agelessolmindie.jpg

:up: A little bit of SemiRand magic.

On turn 23 Tien Chi reveals the treachery of the cold electronic heart..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t23TCfightsback.jpg

A totally unprovoked attack on the hapless PD..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t23poorpd.jpg

There are thesis's to be written on the economics of PD, I'll sum it all up by saying that the game has it wrong. Basically that first person to sign up would actually be the most expensive and every other PD recruit would cost less. Why? Because when your god only hires three of you to defend against that you really should have a pension put away for your loved ones, and a 1gp sign-on fee is going to get your widow diddly-squat.

Conversely due to the magic ability of all PD to miraculously resurrect upon victory the wise PD recruit would price themselves to allow their god to recruit as many as possible to ensure victory, especially given that once a critical mass is reached victory is almost a certainty, thus a widows pay-out is not needed and employment is ensured.

I digress..

This is where we are at. Here is my research..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t23research.jpg

You will notice Alt-3 is almost done, the big spell there is Mistform (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Mistform).

Switching to Evocation my aim is Evo-5 for Orb Lightning (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Orb_Lightning) and Storm (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Storm). These spells are for my Tuatha Sorceress's (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Tuatha_Sorceress), Storm allows us to eliminate 50% of non-magical ranged attacks (note our armies have zero ranged units while Tien Chi seems to be largely horse archers), allows our Air mages to cast Summon Storm Power (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Summon_Storm_Power) for a +1 to Air magic and finally Orb Lightning casts one Lightning Bolt (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Lightning_Bolt) per level of Air magic per turn.

For my Ri (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Ri) and Sidhe Lords (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Sidhe_Lord_%28Early_Era%29) I've been forging Pendants of Luck (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Pendant_of_Luck), Vine Shields (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Vine_Shield), Rainbow Armors (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Rainbow_Armor) and Frost Brands (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Frost_Brand). Coupled with Mistform and Mirror Image (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Mirror_Image) my guys are going to be kicking. I may need to add a secondary Reinvigorating item but lets see how they go first, I don't want to be having to invest too much per thug, because as Stalin said "Quantity has a quality of its own". To this end Chris the Sheep is forging the third Dwarven Hammer this turn.

Our Gem income..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t23gemincome.jpg

Only one extra Air and Astral per turn since last update. This is mainly due to Chris the Sheep having other duties than site searching. I am reminded to invest some more effort into finding more sites.

The map..

http://i608.photobucket.com/albums/tt163/PengoPaddy/Turbocharged%20AI%20team%20game/t23end.jpg

Its a bit hard to read, I'm trying to conserve peoples bandwidth by shrinking the image, but if you squint you can see Tien Chi's and our border to the west. That Tien Chi province to my north is cut off from my lands by two rather tough indie provinces, I will need to pay attention to ensure I'm not surprised. To my east I have just found Caelum, I'm sending through scouts to find Abysia, and through diplomacy I know Caelum is also to my north. Caelum is of course human and thus an ally.

Lastly another challenge, keen eyed readers may notice one picture in this post does not belong in the context it is presented in. Which one is it?

[Gandalf Parker]

More and more Im getting requests for game-check links on private games.
So we now have two.

One for ALL games (private and public)
http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/games_chk.cgi

And a smaller list of just the private games (like this one)
http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/privategames.cgi

Gandalf Parker

[Doo]

Cheers for this Gandalf, I've book-marked that page.

[Hrum]

Thanks Gandalf! That's really helpful. And, since I don't think I've said it already, thanks for hosting this game and dom3minions in general. :)

Turn 25 is up.

(Probably less necessary for me to begin my posts with this now that we have that status link from Gandalf, but I am a creature of habit.)

The fishmen look to be winning the war on the northern provinces of the frost giants. Atlantis is now sieging both of the indie forts along the coast, having kicked Niefelheim off of the eastern one in prov 60. In the southwest, Niefelheim is also at war with our friends C'Tis, but I am not sure how that is going - it does not yet look conclusive.

And Kailasa has decided to join the fray - sacred troops and human infantry have marched into Niefelheim territory and taken a couple of provinces! We now march on the southern fort of the frost giants!

Unfortunately, some foolish monkey forgot to bring along the bags of endless sustenance. After offering our flying friends in the north our counsel to avoid starvation at all costs, the troops of Kailasa have fallen prey to this very thing in the barren mountain passes that the monkeys must pass through on their way to Niefelheim. :doh: Endless bags of ghee and gulab jamun syrup are being rushed to the front.

A monkey scout has spotted an Abysian expansion force in the south. That isolated fort has finally managed to start expanding. It appears that they have only that one additional province so far, but perhaps they will continue to conquer their neighbors now.

A chittering monkey runner eager to deliver a message to our mages knocked over some volatile substances in a magickal research lab and the whole building went up in flame. This is the 2nd time Kailasa has lost a lab to fire in recent memory. Some discussion with the Yogi researchers about safety precautions may be in order. The markata who caused this has been demoted from runner to mango picker - he now spends his days attached to a long pole that is used by a bandar retired-military-officer-now-gardener who wields the markata-pole for pruning mango trees and picking the harder to reach fruit. If he ever stops chittering excuses and looking to place blame elsewhere perhaps this markata will be allowed to return to his previous profession, but he is currently far from attaining even a modicum of enlightenment. :re:

[Hrum]

Lastly another challenge, keen eyed readers may notice one picture in this post does not belong in the context it is presented in. Which one is it?How about a hint? :)

Here's the map situation on the southern continent as it looks to Kailasa currently:

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3729/turbocht25kaimapovervie.th.jpg (http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3729/turbocht25kaimapovervie.jpg)

I've been fairly conservative these last several turns. I was trying to catch up some in research before tackling Niefelheim, and I've been avoiding expanding into contact with Atlantis. I expect Atlantis to be the tough fight in this game.

Any news from TC up north?

[endomorphious]

Alrighty, this was a devastating turn for C'tis. Had hunkered down in province 12 after taking it from Niefel. I bumped up the local PD to 25. Had a nice number of troops there and either due to my poor scripting or just Niefels superiority he destroyed me with minimal losses to himself. Lost my god about 10 magic items. He was fighting in my Dominion too and the heat didn't seem to matter to him one bit. He now has serious ability to continue deep into my few territories and obliterate me. I'm 1 point away from having Alt 5, already have const4 and conj 1. Mayhap I can limp along long enough to get my darkness/skellispam up and running.

Atlantis is a MONSTER this game. With all the activity being reported by the other players I was hoping to not see him down my way. But, he took a province at 73. Not sure what he's got there yet. Maybe next turn.

Good luck.

Anyone looking to trade for gems? I need death gems primarily right now. Would also trade for blood slaves at say 1 gem to 10 slaves. Can you trade military units in this game?

[Doo]

No, you can't trade military units. I have heaps of Air gems to spare, I suspect that won't help you much..

Have you a thug chassis? I can forge Vine Shields and Lucky Pendants if you want them.

A clue as to the picture is that the numbers don't add up. A better clue is that Tir na n'Og doesn't have Blood access.

I'm officially at war with Tien Chi, our border is currently a narrow strip of single provinces in a sea of indies. I've kitted out some thugs and hope that I can push him back to his castle. From my scouting I'm going at his second castle, his main castle and surrounds are pretty much all Tien Chi.

How you going Thanatus Del Dragos? I see you have a fort bordering Tien Chi.

Congrats to Mauxe on busting the Wraith Lord, although I wonder how much harder it would have been had it not fallen unconscious due to skelli-spamming? :)

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm preparing for a war on two fronts right now. Hasn't started yet, but Atlantis is creeping north and Tien Chi has an Army of Horsemen ready to pounce on my northern fort. My Southern Borders have two indie provinces, one filled with trolls and another with a Tarasque SC that I can't think of a way to defeat he regens about 50hp a turn, so that might stay as a border for now. Might send an Army toward Tien Chi's Northern Fort at 210. At least see what kind of resistance I will meet.

[Doo]

Towards Tiens northern fort is where I'm going too, my scouts suggest Tien doesn't have much up that way so lets kick down the door :)

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Sounds good to me :)

[Mauxe]

ooh.. sorry if I stole that wraith lord province from you.
I was watching it for a few turns and didn't see any activity from you and I had regrouped enough to swoop in :(

Abysia is putting up a bit of a fight now. I really need to bring my site searching pretender home to craft a few items for me. Supply is greatly needed. I am just bolstering my southern border at this point until I can mount a better attack...

[Doo]

ooh.. sorry if I stole that wraith lord province from you.
I was watching it for a few turns and didn't see any activity from you and I had regrouped enough to swoop in :(

No worries. I hope you gained some of its items after the fight.

[Hrum]

Turn 26 (Late Spring Yr3).

The fishmen have built 2 new land forts along the coast of the southern continent (61 & 58). They also continue to siege the 2 independent forts, and the siege force on the western one that houses the port (77) has grown quite large - they will probably crack the walls of that fort soon. The scouts of Kailasa can only see 3 remaining provinces held by the frost giants in the north, and one of those is their northern capital.

In the southern mountains, Kailasa continues to move forward. The southern capital is under siege and the monkey forces hope to have it cut-off from reinforcement / rescue before summer ends.

BTW, best magic site I've found so far: The Council of Sages. It's an astral site that gives income of 1 each: Astral, Air, Earth, Water. It also allows recruitment of Lore Masters for 300 gold (ouch!). OK, so they're expensive old guys, but they get 3 random picks of any (yes, any) path of magic. Magic diversity, here we come! :D

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/The_Council_of_Sages
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Lore_Master

The monkey who found this site turned to his commander and screeched, "Mmmm, doughnuts!". I don't know where he got the doughnuts, or the weird metagame pop-cultural reference, but his furry face is all glazed and sticky now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-4P1WPE-Qg

Endo, if you have some troops you want to use to grab some land from Niefelheim in the south that would be cool, but I don't think the big frosties will be a threat much longer. I think in a few turns the threat is really going to be coming from your north. Any ideas about how you want to tackle the fishmen?

I'm glad to hear you guys are moving on TC in the north. Atlantis is definitely shaping up to be the guy to worry about, so the sooner we sort these other guys out the sooner we can turn our attention to the things that lurk in the deeps (and keep making forts up on land!). :eek: Who wants to cast Thetis' Blessing? :)

Mauxe, if you need 'em, I can forge you some bags of endless gulab jamun syrup* (ie. bags of endless wine). If that's the only reason you're diverting your pretender from site searching, then how about I make those for you instead? Each one feeds 50 men (reduces supply needs by 50) - How many do you think you'll need?

*(Bags of endless coriander chutney? Dal? Chicken curry, but without the chicken because it clogs up the spout?)

[Doo]

BTW, best magic site I've found so far: The Council of Sages. It's an astral site that gives income of 1 each: Astral, Air, Earth, Water. It also allows recruitment of Lore Masters for 300 gold (ouch!). OK, so they're expensive old guys, but they get 3 random picks of any (yes, any) path of magic. Magic diversity, here we come! :D

Nice site! I hope you have Growth dominion ;)

[Mauxe]

The extra supply would be nice. I could use at least 2 of them if possible. What gems/items could you use in return?

[Hrum]

Nice site! I hope you have Growth dominion ;)

I wish. Who has the points for such things?! :)

The extra supply would be nice. I could use at least 2 of them if possible. What gems/items could you use in return?

I made 3 of them preemptively - I figured if you didn't want them my armies would always find a use for them (already have a few in service). I'll send all 3 to you; if that's too many send one back or whatever.

I've got a few hammers made, so I can pump them out for 3 nature gems apiece (total of 9 gems for the 3 bags I'm sending you). Nature gems are always welcome, or a like number of something else (water and astral are especially prized by me).

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I have brought War to the Tien Chi on two fronts!

[Hrum]

Turn 28 is up.

I have brought War to the Tien Chi on two fronts!

Huzzah! Death to T'ien Ch'i! We in the south are eager for any news of your exploits in the north. Your messengers are always welcome here if they bring the latest word on the campaign against our enemies.

Strangely, Abysia managed to get a force of crazy men and fanatical flaggelants to the port province that Atlantis sieges (77). This is on the far NW coast of the southern continent. The attack was trifling and Atlantis did not appear to take any casualties, but it puzzles us how Abysia got troops to this spot, so far from their homelands. Our scouts tell me that Abysia does not possess any of the neighboring land.

Abysia's bless: f9 s4

In the south, month 3 of Kailasa's siege of the frost giants southern capital - we continue to choke the life out of Niefelheim.

Last month they sallied with a large force of hurlers and militia, supported by a random assortment of independent archers and led by a Niefel Jarl and a Skratti. They lost 3/4 of their army and the Niefel Jarl did not escape the battlefield. Losses on our side were 8/60, but 5 of those were sacred Yavana lost when they raced ahead of their arrow screen in their eagerness to join battle and were met with a hail of arrows and boulders. They are mourned.

This month a smaller force of theirs met a larger force of Yavana and light infantry. The frost giants were chased from the field, but sadly, their Niefel Jarl leader escaped this time. No Yavana were lost, though there were 10 casualties in the archer screen. Reinforcements continue to move up.

The provinces surrounding the southern Niefel capital continue to fall. This fort will be isolated and reduced shortly.

[Doo]

Nice site! I hope you have Growth dominion ;)

I wish. Who has the points for such things?! :)



Ha! I guess the answer is nations that have half decent troops and don't need their pretender to cover areas lacking..

Monkeys!

:)

Tien Chi, at least in the northern part of his domain, is in trouble. Fomoria and I will take his northern lands leaving the rest sandwiched between us and Atlantis.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I crushed a Tien Chi army of 100 to the North, they did not kill a single one of my men. They have another fortress between me and their base at 210, I will begin the siege next turn. They cannot defeat me.

[Mauxe]

Abysia has some type of powerful magic at its ddisposal.
I was attacked in two provinces by them.. one in the heart of my territories and the other was my Northern Vanguard - both impossible to reach without some form of teleportation (for them).

The supply is much appreciated and I have sent gems as payment :)

[endomorphious]

need some advice. I will have researched alteration 6 the end of this turn and can finally start planning on using darkness/skellispam in my expansion. What should I focus on now? Conjuration? I could definitely use the extra deathgems. I need to build up my mages I think. Their my biggest strength from what I can see. I could push on up in. Hmmm. Must. Plan. Sooner.

Ugh Kailasa keep your dang monkeys on your side of the map. One of the little buggers burnt down a lab.

[Doo]

New turn up...

I'd save the death gems and just site search on foot. If your short on death gems, they cost 3 per province to search and you have access to 4D mages I'd say send one or two mages out on foot. You might also turn up some other sites, such as water sites for Frost Brands or extra nature for Vine Shields.

If your going the darkness route, I'd try and maximise it, thus go Conj to get Banes as thugs to back up the Skeli-chaff in the dark. Any tougher undead in the dark are going to add bang to your buck.

[endomorphious]

Yeah what few provinces I have have been manually searched by my pretender. Kailasa is doing well against neifel, but I'm fast running out of directions to try and expand into except for the water. I plan on researching Alt up to 7 or 8 for destruction spam along with the skellispam then move on to const 6 for water bracelets and gear to move into the water.

Overall asessment of performance is: poor.

[Doo]

If you need you can ask Hrum if you can create a path through his lands so you can participate. Or research and gear up to try going underwater.

Whatever you do will be good, it forces an AI to respond and invest against you rather than elsewhere. I have great Air access so I can forge you some good items to get your mages underwater. We are allies so there is no need to make any payment in return.

Your Darkness spam tactic will be good, make sure the caster has greater than 4D or it costs 400 fatigue and I suppose instant death. Kit your armies with some quality undead and in the dark they will do well.

[Jarkko]

Your Darkness spam tactic will be good, make sure the caster has greater than 4D or it costs 400 fatigue and I suppose instant death.
No it doesn't. A mage casting a spell never goes above 200 fatigue hmiself. Effectively it thus does not matter if you cast a spell that causes 400 fatigue with a mage that is just able to cast it, or with a mage that has one higher than the required path; the difference starts to show after you have a mage that is at least 2 levels higher than what the spell requires. Thus, if you have both a D4 and D5 mage in a combat, it makes sense to cast Darkness with the D4 mage, and let the D5 mage do all the other cool spells :)

[Doo]

If a mage has 200 fatigue they die don't they? So its still insta-death for a poor D4-5 mage? Or do they just collapse?

I could test this....

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I think Tien Chi is going to fall, and fall fairly fast. Three of their forts are now being seiged by the Irish Alliance (Firbolg Federation?).

[Hrum]

Turn 31 is up. I think you guys all noticed this already. :)

Ugh Kailasa keep your dang monkeys on your side of the map. One of the little buggers burnt down a lab.

Dude, sorry about that. I didn't think they liked your swampy lizard lands, but I guess monkeys can pop up anywhere. ;) They are cheeky little buggers aren't they? I recommend keeping them out of your labs if you can manage it, but that's probably easier said than done.

need some advice. I will have researched alteration 6 the end of this turn and can finally start planning on using darkness/skellispam in my expansion. What should I focus on now?

I agree with Doo about the thug summons (banes and whatnot). You may need to kit them out a bit, but I think it'll be worth it (not sure they're amphibious natively). Vine shields w/ fire/shadow brands are always nice too. If you can't forge these I can make fire brands for you (they're better than frost brands against a guy that has either some resistances or high prot - fire brands are AP, frost brands aren't so even if the splash isn't helping much at least someone gets hit with a damaging AP attack).

I have some other thoughts on stuff you might want to do as well. Basically, it sounds like you really went full bore for the darkness thing, which may or may not be super useful against Atlantis (would've worked great against Niefelheim, but there isn't much left of him). The reason it may only be partially useful against Atlantis is (and I hadn't really looked at Atlantis before or I would've mentioned this earlier):

Atlantis has troops that have darkvision natively! :doh: And yes, in scouting reports watching the fights between Atlantis and Niefel I've seen him using troop mixes including these guys a fair bit:

-Deep Ones / #Deep One Spearmen (Dv 100; Fire & Cold Resist 50%)
-Atlantian Spearmen (DV 50)
-Shambler of the Deep / #Warrior of the Deep (DV 100; Fre & Cold Resist 50%)

#(These dudes have scary basalt spears, which defeat etherealness.)

I guess it's pretty dark down in the deeps and the Atlantian troops have adapted to that. So, using darkness on Atlantis won't be as overwhelming as it would be against many other nations. I think it'll still be somewhat useful, as I bet the AI mixes in some guys who don't have awesome DV with most of his armies, but in an MP game against a human Atlantis opponent you'd probably be facing nothing but DV100 guys as soon as he saw that you were sending undead at him (apparently those Deep One Spearmen are highly prized Atlantian chaff in general because they're cheap / low resource, and can be cranked out like mad). They ain't none of 'em poison resistant though...


So, other than darkness what do you have? I looked at the EA C'Tis mages on the wiki and it looks like you've got your share of:

-D
-more D
-N
-some S
-some W

Bearing your paths in mind, I looked over the list of spells and it looks like you've got all of the following available to you at a not terribly high research level (I tried not to look above research 5 in any school).

I know you may not have some of those at high enough levels that you can cast all the spells below right out of the box, but for some of these spells it may be worth forging a path booster and sending a path boosted mage out to the front lines. Nature boosters (thistle mace) and water boosters (Water Bracelet, Robe of the Sea) are relatively cheap / easy to make.


Rituals - prep for combat by summoning dudes:
conj2 d2 summon shades (5d gems 4x shades) [amph]
conj3 d2 revive bane (8d gems - commander) [no amph - needs gear?]
conj4 d3 summon shade beasts (20d gems 15x shade beasts) [pr amph]
conj5 d4 revive bane lord (12d gems - commander) [no amph - needs gear?]
ench5 d3 pale riders (10d gems 20x skel horsemen) [pr amph]


Buff your dudes:
evo2 w2 rain (1w gem) [OK, not a buff per se, but nice to have on land if enemy has F mages]
alt3 s1 **body ethereal (*do this to your bane/bane lord thugs)
alt5 n2 wooden warriors (do this to your undead chaff)

*For some reason I thought the banes were ethereal, but the wiki suggests not. Seems I was misremembering - maybe people tend to make them ethereal so often I just thought they were natively..? In any case, why not make the banes/bane lords ethereal if you can swing it? Great against some opponents, not so much against others...
**Ethereal may actually be less useful against Atlantis. Some of his troops have basalt spears that are magic / defeat the ethereal effect.


Kill enemy dudes w/ poison & death kaboom (supposedly only 1 of these doesn't work underwater):
alt1 n1 eagle eyes (improve mages' precision before firing evos)
evo4 n2 breath of the dragon (NUW)
evo5 n3 poison cloud
evo5 d2 shadow blast (1d gem)
ench5 n3w1 foul vapors (1n gem - whole BF)


Sleepify / Scare remaining enemy dudes:
evo3 n2 sleep cloud (the manual doesn't say NUW, so this might work for water fighting)
thau3 n2 panic
thau4 d3 terror


Bonus underwater combat spell (for Conj6 w3):
Shark Attack (3w gems)

Here's a useful thread on underwater fighting:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43042

The great thing about using poison & death magic along with undead is that your undead are immune. No worries about collateral damage. Fear spam same. I think the same is true of sleep effects / fatigue effects as well (undead don't get fatigued and don't sleep?).

Is any of that useful at all?

If you need you can ask Hrum if you can create a path through his lands so you can participate. Or research and gear up to try going underwater.

C'Tis has 2 AI neighbors he can make war with to his north (the dwindling Niefelheim, incl his northern capital, and Atlantis who is heavily on land at this point). C'Tis shouldn't need a path through me to expand (he would to go after Abysia, but seems a bad idea to leave a scary submerged enemy who is now on land on your door step while going off to fight on the far removed eastern continent).

Fighting through Atlantis will even give C'Tis access to port provinces that will (ultimately) allow access to the NW and the E continents. The biggest obstacle to hopping to the other continents that way is Atlantis, who will raid mercilessly along the coast once war is begun with him (since he's the one who holds those port provinces). IMO, the solution is to get in the water and put an end to the fishmen.

Sorry for another long $%^&ing post. :P

[Jarkko]

If a mage has 200 fatigue they die don't they? So its still insta-death for a poor D4-5 mage? Or do they just collapse?

No, a toon takes damage for each point over 200 points of fatigue. So being at fatigue 200 does no damage.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Tien Chi fought off one of my sieging forces. I had 50 troops and he had his God and 250 troops. It was a bad loss, I lost 35 of my troops, but I did take out 115 of his and I have a large reinforcement team coming. I am going to send a stealth unit to the south to see what Atlantis is up too.

[Hrum]

Turn 33 is up.

Tien Chi fought off one of my sieging forces. I had 50 troops and he had his God and 250 troops. It was a bad loss, I lost 35 of my troops, but I did take out 115 of his and I have a large reinforcement team coming. I am going to send a stealth unit to the south to see what Atlantis is up too.

Ouch. That's a rough one. What's TC's pretender like?

Endo, I wasn't thinking about those tough indie provs boxing you in when I posted earlier. Would it make it easier if you had a path through those formerly Niefel provinces in the south?

Also, maybe we should re-visit those tough indie provinces. We've all got higher research now and there might be some options for taking those down. One of them has a dragon leading a bunch of militia, right? I'm going to have to go back through this thread to check about the other one, but maybe you can get us some up to date scouting on those..?

---------
Edit:

On of the choke points near me has 210+ Ryleh troops...I can't take it but doubt anyone else will be anytime soon :}.

Is this the other tough indie province?

[Thanatus del Dragos]

TC has a Jade Emporer stacked in uber gear, but not super powerful magic paths. Can't remmeber off the top of my head, but I will take him next time.

[endomorphious]

Took province 28, the one with the red dragon, militia, and fairies. What a waste of good meatshields :{ sigh. But, realistically, me being able to charm someone is less likely than Quasimodo trying to score Lady Gaga in a 89 Fiesta.

Will be attacking province 32 next turn. The Southern Toad Tribes are about to become snake food. (I hope) my scripting seemed to do very well against the dragon. The level 4 priest spell word of power(??) hit him several times and then a few soul vortex's and life drains and he went down fairly easily. The only thing was my mage did not cast Darkness as ordered. Very irksome.

I NEEEEED gold. Anyone want to buy some gems for gold? I have spare fire, air, and water. Could scrimp and weasel out some death gems instead of skull mentor. A smattering of nature and earth gems too.

My goal is to march my big god/prophet/mage force up through, 32, 40 (if unowned-can't see it), then siege 55. Mop up left over forces and then focus on Atlantis.

[Doo]

Endomorphious, I will shoot you through some gold this turn.

Bugger on Tien Chi busting the siege. Still I have one and I'm sure Thanatus del Dragos you still have another under siege. I suspect your one will be hit by his god force first.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I siege and took one fort from him already, that one is no longer under dispute, he has no force near it. I will tke him in the south, I have no fear. I now have storms and thunder at my disposal with Evo 5, I will crush him!

[Hrum]

Took province 28, the one with the red dragon, militia, and fairies....my scripting seemed to do very well against the dragon. The level 4 priest spell word of power(??) hit him several times and then a few soul vortex's and life drains and he went down fairly easily. The only thing was my mage did not cast Darkness as ordered. Very irksome.

Nice work! I'm only sad my scout wasn't in position to watch. :)

Word of power is nice. More than one Soul Vortex? Did you have multiple guys cast it and then run into melee? Soul Vortex is typically used as a thug/SC buffing spell rather than as a killing spell (it works for killing chaff, but doesn't necessarily have much effect on big guys w/ high MR).

You had D gems with the Darkness mage I take it? Was it the first spell that mage was casting (ie. was he at zero fatigue when he would've been casting)? Sometimes the Dom3 spellcasting AI just decides it knows better and won't cast a spell. In the case of darkness it might've happened if you had too many troops present that didn't have DV (I don't know this for a fact; just pulling stuff out of a monkey's nether regions - uhh, yeah. Gross.).

But, realistically, me being able to charm someone is less likely than Quasimodo trying to score Lady Gaga in a 89 Fiesta.

LOL! Nice. Seriously, charming and seducing and whatnot is not easy. As I understand it, you need a whole sack of seducers / charmers all decked out in penetration gear (you play the percentages game by sending a bunch of mages and having 'em spam it), and they still won't succeed against anyone with high enough MR. Mid to high teens is the highest you're likely to succeed on.

My goal is to march my big god/prophet/mage force up through, 32, 40 (if unowned-can't see it), then siege 55. Mop up left over forces and then focus on Atlantis.

/Kailasa scout finds vantage high above the next battlefield and settles in with cold rice and a little rat meat...

Sent what gold I could spare your way. If you can spare some water gems I won't refuse 'em (I can't get enough!), but no worries if you got better uses for 'em.

[endomorphious]

Thanks for the gold guys. Big help. those sauromancers are greedy little buggers! About time to send em out working for their gold. Their shall be a tide of risen dead drowning the remnants of Niefels dreams. HAH water gems on the way...I've been stockpiling as Ive not researced Cons 6 yet :{ which I will have to do once i finish Alt 8, in like 3 turns. I'm hoping disintegrate is worth the push that high up.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Storming the castle, they might fight me off, or they might just die, we'll see.

[Doo]

I'll see, I have a scout in that province :)

[Mauxe]

I am in the middle of an all out Abyssia blitz!
They have teleported into two main provinces now and a vampire lord is laying siege to my capital...

I am about to break the siege this turn and hopefully get my southern force moving through what appears to be a relatively undefended series of provinces.

Not cool.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I crushed them.

[Finalgenesis]

Apologies Doo for an unrelated intrusion into your game.

Hi Mauxe, you may have noted a PM sent to you before you made your most recent post in this thread regarding the game Gluttony, inquiring as to if everything is alright and confirming that you plan to keep playing.

Perhaps it won't be too much trouble to ask for 15 seconds of your time to clarify your intent in Gluttony for us? Think of it as minimal consideration to the other players there, where 15 seconds from you to make a short post can save all the other players there the suspense and delay in starting the sub finding process, or any further unneeded stales that impacts the game.

If you want out and need a sub, just say so, I think that's a really low bar to achieve actually, and I never hold anything against people that put in this minimal consideration to fellow players.

If you do intend to stay, we would of course welcome you back.

Let us know.

-Co. Admin, Gluttony

[Doo]

I could Cloud Trapeze some thugs at the provinces Abysia are at, give me some province numbers and I'll send in the clowns on those jesters ;)

Cheers for the goodies Endomorphious :)

[endomorphious]

Arggh! The last two provinces I've taken had an income of 5 and 7 gold each. Still about 4 turns away from reaching Disintegrate. I feel somewhat like the hard focus on this spell at level 8 could be crippling me somewhat. Especially since there is nothing I can effectively use in level 9 of Alt and few spells other than Disintegrate in level 8. Still all in all I've read its very useful in combat and I have many available spammers for it.

Thanks again guys for the gold. I really heavily underestimated the burden a couple dozen sauromancers would be on the economy. If this wasn't an ally game, I'd die from gold-lack alone. Thank heavens for at least the luck 3 scales.

I really need to refine my scripting skills. I handily conquered the last indie but it seemed very inefficient and i think my fire shielded PoD killed his own undead retainers. Ahhh, well thats why I'm playing :}

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I think TC is hurt. I am going to really put the pain on them in the south over the next few turns. I have moved my stealth army toward their direction. 40 Nemedians can really bring the pain.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I've decided to engage TC's God in battle again. What could go wrong...

[Mauxe]

This random popping Abysia thing is really starting to get annoying...

Also - I started to make push south and suddenly a force of 200 showed up in a lightly defended fort....

[Doo]

Hmmm... I broke down the walls and attacked the castle, only to be repulsed by a giant stone head and Demons of Heavenly Rivers (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Demon_of_Heavenly_Rivers).

Back to the drawing board. I've been having some fun but I think I'll need to start being serious.

Endomorphious, I've sent some death gems to assist summoning that undead army.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Yea, TC thumped me too...I guess I underestimated them, lol.

[Doo]

Your castle that is being sieged, there are more troops on their way to siege. I know because I'm trying to assassinate their leader ;)

[endomorphious]

New turn up. Thanks for the gold and especially those gems Doo. Can you use any Water gems or a few nature gems? Next turn I will be putting the smack down on Niefel in his southern fort. I don't have access to alot of summons yet, but will be finishing research on alt 8 this turn and can then focus on conjuration for some better summons.

I do have 3 wizards casting arouse hunger in my northernmost city. Have 40 corpses. I could use some feedback on how effective you guys think that spell is.

[NTJedi]

I do have 3 wizards casting arouse hunger in my northernmost city. Have 40 corpses. I could use some feedback on how effective you guys think that spell is.

I would save those gems for other spells such as spirit mastery or summoning a bane lord to equip with items. I don't think arouse hunger is worth the price of gems.

[Hrum]

It is early summer in the 4th year of the ascension wars (Turn 39 is up).

Kailasa reports a great victory in the south! Niefelheim's southern capital has fallen.

An earlier attempt was repulsed when our sacred Yavana crushed all the inhabitants of the castle but were unable to put an end to a malevolent Collossal Head. A high powered death mage (d9!), and greatly resistant to magic attack (MR25), the most formidable things about this giant stone head were found to be it's hardness (prot 25) and it's solidness (HP 825). In this earlier fight our Yavana pounded on it for quite a length of time with little to show for their efforts, while the head ignored any attempts at magic coercion and cast death spells at our troops. All the while the defenders of the castle in the surrounding towers hurled down boulders on the Yavana, causing great losses on our side.

This time, the Yavana were again sent forward, blessed and many made ethereal as before, but also enchanted with the spell weapons of sharpness. Our researchers just uncovered the secret of this wondrous spell, and it proved to be the decisive factor. The collossal stone head has been reduced to gravel, and now decorates the pathways of a garden dedicated to peace and enlightenment. The fort is ours.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6137/turbocht39buffyavana.th.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6137/turbocht39buffyavana.jpg)

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9459/turbocht39killthehead.th.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9459/turbocht39killthehead.jpg)

---

Endomorphious, thanks for the water gems you sent a couple turns back! They were most appreciated.

Man those collossal heads make taking these forts a lot more challenging! In my case, he was also Niefelheim's prophet, so his HPs were through the roof. Weapons of Sharpness really made a huge difference; if you guys have some access to earth magic I highly recommend it. A handful of thugs equipped with AN or maybe twice as many with AP weapons could work as well.

I suppose a cloud-load of lightning could do the trick too, since it is AN, but given the HP these things have you'll need a bunch of casters spamming to bring him down. One or two guys isn't going to do it. If you don't send enough casters they'll fatigue out before they kill this guy.

[endomorphious]

Well. Launching my attack on Niefels other capital. Wish me luck.

[Doo]

Well done on the castle busting story, Tien Chi has a massive head too except its strong in Astral, it spammed I think Stellar Cascades and fatigued my army to its doom.

Sorry guys, I'll be another 24 hours from time of posting before I do my turn.

While you wait I suggest you read a couple of Order of the Stick's (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) for amusement.

[Doo]

New turn is up...

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I killed the God of Tien Chi! Fear the Irish crippled giants!

[Hrum]

Turn 41 is up (as of last night, but I was slacking too much to post about it).

I probably should've submitted my next turn right away, but it was late and I needed to check on some stuff about how to equip my golem thug before I sent him out.

I killed the God of Tien Chi! Fear the Irish crippled giants!

Kailasa congratulates our Fomorian brothers in arms! Was the battle hard fought? How goes the war?

My current plan is to clean up my eastern flank a little before turning my attention to Atlantis. Abysia's southern lands may not be extensive, but I don't want him getting any ideas when I'm already distracted dealing with the fishmen.

The time for war beneath the waves approaches.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I crushed him and his feeble army!

My war with Atlantis will be a long one, starting on land. But Tien Chi is still much alive, so that still takes precedence.

[Doo]

New turn up. Sorry I have been slow of late with my turns, I'm now busy three nights out of the working week and I don't have the time or energy to get turns done. I'm also canning writing more updates, again I just don't have the time with other things on.

All is well with me, I have a narrow front to pursue Tien Chi on and am gearing up to trouble Atlantis. I think stealthy thug raiders should cause some harm :)

[endomorphious]

Hijacking thread for off-topic. Anyone interested in pursuing a modified game that focus's on dominion and empires with dominion spreading effects. MA C'tis, LA R'Lyeh, LA Emror(sic), not sure of others that would fit the theme. No direct combat between players but dominion kills allowed. Workable theme?

[NTJedi]

Hijacking thread for off-topic. Anyone interested in pursuing a modified game that focus's on dominion and empires with dominion spreading effects. MA C'tis, LA R'Lyeh, LA Emror(sic), not sure of others that would fit the theme. No direct combat between players but dominion kills allowed. Workable theme?

Possible risk for many turns of no battles.

I think you might better enjoy a map with victory point provinces where only the provinces with victory points can be attacked. Thus even the least experienced players could stay alive and assist the greatest threat. After player owns X amount of victory points they win.

[Hrum]

Turn 43 is up.

Abysia expands in the south. Troops from Abysia's southern fort are expanding northwards - their furthest reach seems to be just shy of linking up with the northern Abysian lands. He's 1 province away from the bridge crossing that would link up to his northern lands (province 81).

Endomorphious, I witnessed that huge fight you had storming Niefelheim's capital. If that collossal stone head hadn't cast Hellpower you would've been the victor, rather than those horrors. I'm sure they won't stop you from claiming your prize this turn, but that must've been a bit frustrating. In any case, it looks like you've got your skellispam machine running pretty smoothly at this point.

[endomorphious]

New turn up.

Yeah, that darn head ruined my plans and forced the largest portion of my forces to retreat. Atlantis is besieging my most northern city and may take it this turn. I'm hopefully not splitting my forces foolishly and sending in my mages against the Colossal Blood 11 head (siggggh such a waste when he could be captured and used for our own gains)Spamming disintegrate with my sauromancers and shatter with my PoD. LOL I did immensely enjoy seeing the thronging horde of undead just flocking around that giant head.

[endomorphious]

NTjedi great suggestion. I like the idea of the victory points. Make it even more interesting by assigning the better magic sites there (could that be done randomly from say a predetermined list of 10?). Make people eager to fight for them. Anyone bored and want to compile said game? :}

[Thanatus del Dragos]

You killed the Frost Giants! Congrats!

My war with the Tien Chi Goes well, but I fear the collosal head shall defeat me in the north.

Atlantis is now at my doorstep, there will be war, and death, and my giants shall slay them and boil them and eat their froggy legs for dinner!

[Doo]

I'm infiltrating the underwater provinces with stealthy thugs, its not going to stop armies but it will mean a diversion of resources.

[NTJedi]

NTjedi great suggestion. I like the idea of the victory points. Make it even more interesting by assigning the better magic sites there (could that be done randomly from say a predetermined list of 10?). Make people eager to fight for them. Anyone bored and want to compile said game? :}

There's no method for having a predetermined list, but a great method does exist. Within the map editor it's possible to select one or more target provinces for having increased magic site frequency. Any province with victory points also provides increased dominion spread by game design according to Gandalf. If the victory points are needed to win as a victory condition this alone will be enough incentive for conquering the locations even with no magic sites and zero population.
Once we know how many confirmed players will exist on the map I can design the game map... with or without AI opponents.

[Hrum]

Endomorphious, I think you really should make a new thread for this game idea. I have some thoughts on the matter (or questions, more like - ex. Does no attacking other players include no remote attack spells? What about assassinations? What about economy attacks and anonymous rituals? Since I presume there's no way to make the game forbid those, will this be on the honor system? Or, I suppose you could make a mod that doesn't include the remote rituals you don't want people casting at each other...), but I don't want to fill this thread up with stuff that isn't relevant to Turbocharged.

---------

You killed the Frost Giants! Congrats!

Indeed - it was good work by C'Tis that made this possible. Kailasa may have been the one that dealt the final blow, but that's only due to a final gesture of defiance by Niefelheim - he cast Horde from Hell at one of Kailasa's provinces! He did this as C'Tis was putting an end to what would have been Niefelheim's last province! What a cheeky monkey was this frost giant ruler! If he'd used more blood magic like that he might still be causing us trouble. As it was, a Kailasa teleporting thug dropped in on the devil led imps and stomped them, retaking our province. The frost giants are no more.

I'm infiltrating the underwater provinces with stealthy thugs, its not going to stop armies but it will mean a diversion of resources.Nice!

Well, I thought I was running a bit ahead of everyone, but now it looks like I'm the one that's lagging on getting my fishy war on. Kailasa's armies are marching on Abysia in the south - those provinces should be taken in a few turns and then Operation Wet Monkey will commence.

Any word from Mauxe on how his eagle men fare in the fight with Abysia in the north?

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I killed everything except the collossal head in Tien Chi's 210 site. Damn, that bastard is tough.

[Doo]

Endomorphious, I think you really should make a new thread for this game idea..... .....but I don't want to fill this thread up with stuff that isn't relevant to Turbocharged.


I'll create a thread in the main forum page, the idea being that SP players don't look at the MP page.

I've been watching Mauxe fight a few battles against Abysia and it seems to me Mauxe is pushing them slowly back. After Mauxe broke the siege on his fort the war seems to have been fought over open ground, I believe Mauxe is soon to be sieging an Abysian fort soon.

[Mauxe]

I should update more...sorry. Just so busy here.

I am slowly, slowly pushing south. I had a brief few turns where I was putting out teleport fires a bit. Now I am staring at a fortress with something big staring back... I think it is a colossal head but I don't recall exactly. It scares me though.
I have some good men in a province adjacent but I was working on a few items before I moved in. Still, I may be ready to bust through in the next turn....

[endomorphious]

Hrum I'm hesitant to make a thread creating a new game since I haven't a clue as to how to host/modify/setup/run a MP game. I'm not even a very adept player. Seriously, seriously weak in making workable thugs/SC's for example. Formulating long term plans another major weakness.

However, I really would like to play another MP game and I think the original idea above would be fun and require people to bypass the typical massive bless rushes that I see mentioned all the time in mp forum.

I don't know enough about the various ages and empires to suggest ones that would be both theme appropriate and fun to play.

Concept: Mixed ages empires that feature strong dominion effects. (ie. MA C'tis, LA Ermor, LA R'yleh) I would appreciate input suggestions and reasons for other empires to be included. There would be NO physical combat between player empires, except for victory point provinces. Chicanery of every other sort allowed, and expected. (Bodyguards should get hazard pay!)Diplomacy encouraged. Magic sites set to high. Expect magical battles to keep those Globals active. SemiRand independents. Perhaps one single uber power AI central power to gang up on?(Or alternatively, an experienced vet running the AI central power, but he would not attack. He would play the political mastermind, the spider in the web if you will.

[Hrum]

Endomorphious, I wasn't trying to be Mecha Thread Cop (well, maybe I was a little - damn my fascist tendencies!). If the other guys in this game don't mind you chatting in this thread about ideas for a new game I don't either, as long as it doesn't crowd out posts about Turbocharged.

And I wasn't suggesting that you start a thread announcing a new game - obviously you do that when you've settled on a concept / format / settings you like and have decided to run the game (which it sounds like you'd prefer someone else run it). For now, in order for you to get wider readership and more suggestions beyond just those of us keeping tabs on this thread (the players, Gandalf and NTJedi, 1 or 2 lurkers out there?) you might want to have a thread in the regular area to discuss game formats so that you can 1. Refine your idea for a format you'd like to play and 2. Gauge interest among all the Dom3 players on the Shrapnel forums instead of just your friendly neighborhood Turbocharged buddies. :)

For my part, I like it when people think of kooky stuff to do with game formats and stuff, so I'm happy to talk stuff over, but when it comes to actualy participation in a new game, I'm kinda swamped right now and I probably won't be able to handle joining another game. I'm already in two games (the other one is a regular MP game that's deep into late game), and my work load at my non-Dom3 day job has picked up a bunch recently (damn RL taking away from Dom3 time!). Things might be different for me in a couple of months, but for now my interest is more academic - I'm happy to try and poke holes in your ideas or suggest refinements, but if the game is starting any time soon I probably won't be joining - hence you should take my opinions with a grain salt. You probably should do that anyway. ;)

One thing I'm not clear on - were you thinking of a game with players as allies teamed up to fight against 1 or more AIs? Or an everyone for himself game that might include some AIs as well to spice things up? Or something else I'm not thinking of?

In your original idea you mentioned dominions affects (LA Ermor, etal), and you just repeated that - can I ask why you want a game composed solely (or primarily) of nations with those effects? In my experience (admittedly limited) those effects create additional tension in a game by making you want to attack the nation with that hateful dominion, or want to kill them even more than you want to kill all nations with their false dominions. All enemy dominion is naughty in the sight of <God_X> and deserves to snuff it, but dominion that kills your guys, or makes the weather unnaturally cold, or spreads disease or insanity is especially naughty. However, your original game concept was - a bunch of dominions that are super toxic to each other, and noone's allowed to do anything about it other than push dominion to win.

Dominion pushes are a valid victory method, but I can't see getting that jazzed about an entire game devoted to nothing but dom pushing. I've never been on either end of a dominion push victory, so I'm pretty far from being an expert on the topic, but as I understand it if you designed a game in which the only victory method was a dominion push, everyone would build their stuff the exact same way (dom10, best scales possible, pretender awake as soon as possible) and the only deciding factors would be does someone have cheap temples (or more expensive ones), or lots of H3s for preaching or whathaveyou. If you allowed a single blood sacrificing nation in that game, I think they would win hands down. If you allowed multiple blood sacrificing nations, everyone else would get squeezed out by them.

And meanwhile, the cool dominion effects you were into aren't really coming into play. Since everyone is pumping dominion like mad, and not allowed to attack in response to the enemy dominion push, only the guy that loses the dominion push is suffering the negative dominion effects, but only for as long as it takes the victor to completely snuff the weaker guy's dominion. The loser has no recourse - this could be a long, painful, not particularly interesting way to be defeated. This sounds more like a thought experiment to be explored by you in SP if you're really curious what it'll look like (maybe I'm wrong though - maybe there are a bunch of people that would want to play this).

I think NTJedi's idea about victory points makes the game much more interesting, in that now there's territory to fight over, so there's a victory method other than pure dom push. Now the painful dominion might be pushed into the contested VP provs by Nation A, while Nation B is the one who has actually conquered the VP provinces and stands to win if he can hold them long enough. Will Nation A's dominion make it harder for Nation B to hold those VPs?

Re: You can't attack players, but you're permitted to assassinate, does that mean you can mess with the other players in any way that has no chance of resulting in you taking one of their provinces? So, remote attacks with independent forces (eg. Send Horror) are OK, but remote attacks with forces that will claim the province for you (eg. Horde from Hell, Ghost Riders) are not OK? It may be hard to make those restrictions clear to all the players, especially if you're mainly courting newish players. You could make a mod that doesn't allow the spells you don't want - that might be the cleanest way.

Re: Assassinations, you realize that sneaky units (assassins) have a chance of being found? And once found by patrollers or PD, a buff enough sneaky unit has a chance of defeating crappy PD (low levels of monkey PD, for example). Since there's a chance that your assassin could take an enemy province, wouldn't this behavior (Assneakassination? Assneakination?) be disallowed?

Re: Vet as Central Power - this sounds like you want someone to GM a game for you (sort of - not quite). I take it this vet isn't allowed to play to win, he's just there to add challenge for the newb players? Ie. he's playing OppFor. That would probably be a lot of work for that player, running this game and making trouble for the players surrounding him, his goal not victory but spiteful resistance to the last. No hope of conquest himself, his only joy being the frustration of his opponents. You might throw him a bone - his one method of victory is dom push. Make him a blood nation and this becomes a really weird Newbs vs A Single Vet scenario. Most guys probably wouldn't be into that, but there could well be a vet out there who would love it. If you find that guy, he might be your game creator, admin, oppfor all in one. Call him Pantokrator - he's not there to kill the new pretenders to godhood, just to frustrate and annoy them to ensure that whoever knocks him off his throne truly deserves to be the new god of the world. It's kinda starting to sound like an entertaining newbie game format, but the entire thing hinges on who you find to play that central role of Game Admin / Veteran "AI" Puppetmaster / OppFor.

One other random thought - if you want to de-emphasize the bless rush, what about using the mod that turns off research, and starts all nations at level 6 research in all paths? It's a mod that takes you straight to mid-game fighting; you don't recruit mages for efficient research (there is none), you just make mages that can cast the spells you want (summons, battlemages, forgers, ritual casters, etc). Since bless nations tend to have the greatest advantage early, that mod might level the playing field a bit by starting the game off at a mid-game research level.

[endomorphious]

Endomorphious, I wasn't trying to be Mecha Thread Cop (well, maybe I was a little - damn my fascist tendencies!). If the other guys in this game don't mind you chatting in this thread about ideas for a new game I don't either, as long as it doesn't crowd out posts about Turbocharged

And I wasn't suggesting that you start a thread announcing a new game - obviously you do that when you've settled on a concept / format / settings you like and have decided to run the game (which it sounds like you'd prefer someone else run it). For now, in order for you to get wider readership and more suggestions beyond just those of us keeping tabs on this thread (the players, Gandalf and NTJedi, 1 or 2 lurkers out there?) you might want to have a thread in the regular area to discuss game formats so that you can 1. Refine your idea for a format you'd like to play and 2. Gauge interest among all the Dom3 players on the Shrapnel forums instead of just your friendly neighborhood Turbocharged buddies. :)

For my part, I like it when people think of kooky stuff to do with game formats and stuff, so I'm happy to talk stuff over, but when it comes to actualy participation in a new game, I'm kinda swamped right now and I probably won't be able to handle joining another game. I'm already in two games (the other one is a regular MP game that's deep into late game), and my work load at my non-Dom3 day job has picked up a bunch recently (damn RL taking away from Dom3 time!). Things might be different for me in a couple of months, but for now my interest is more academic - I'm happy to try and poke holes in your ideas or suggest refinements, but if the game is starting any time soon I probably won't be joining - hence you should take my opinions with a grain salt. You probably should do that anyway. ;)

One thing I'm not clear on - were you thinking of a game with players as allies teamed up to fight against 1 or more AIs? Or an everyone for himself game that might include some AIs as well to spice things up? Or something else I'm not thinking of?

In your original idea you mentioned dominions affects (LA Ermor, etal), and you just repeated that - can I ask why you want a game composed solely (or primarily) of nations with those effects? In my experience (admittedly limited) those effects create additional tension in a game by making you want to attack the nation with that hateful dominion, or want to kill them even more than you want to kill all nations with their false dominions. All enemy dominion is naughty in the sight of <God_X> and deserves to snuff it, but dominion that kills your guys, or makes the weather unnaturally cold, or spreads disease or insanity is especially naughty. However, your original game concept was - a bunch of dominions that are super toxic to each other, and noone's allowed to do anything about it other than push dominion to win.

Dominion pushes are a valid victory method, but I can't see getting that jazzed about an entire game devoted to nothing but dom pushing. I've never been on either end of a dominion push victory, so I'm pretty far from being an expert on the topic, but as I understand it if you designed a game in which the only victory method was a dominion push, everyone would build their stuff the exact same way (dom10, best scales possible, pretender awake as soon as possible) and the only deciding factors would be does someone have cheap temples (or more expensive ones), or lots of H3s for preaching or whathaveyou. If you allowed a single blood sacrificing nation in that game, I think they would win hands down. If you allowed multiple blood sacrificing nations, everyone else would get squeezed out by them.

And meanwhile, the cool dominion effects you were into aren't really coming into play. Since everyone is pumping dominion like mad, and not allowed to attack in response to the enemy dominion push, only the guy that loses the dominion push is suffering the negative dominion effects, but only for as long as it takes the victor to completely snuff the weaker guy's dominion. The loser has no recourse - this could be a long, painful, not particularly interesting way to be defeated. This sounds more like a thought experiment to be explored by you in SP if you're really curious what it'll look like (maybe I'm wrong though - maybe there are a bunch of people that would want to play this).

I think NTJedi's idea about victory points makes the game much more interesting, in that now there's territory to fight over, so there's a victory method other than pure dom push. Now the painful dominion might be pushed into the contested VP provs by Nation A, while Nation B is the one who has actually conquered the VP provinces and stands to win if he can hold them long enough. Will Nation A's dominion make it harder for Nation B to hold those VPs?

Re: You can't attack players, but you're permitted to assassinate, does that mean you can mess with the other players in any way that has no chance of resulting in you taking one of their provinces? So, remote attacks with independent forces (eg. Send Horror) are OK, but remote attacks with forces that will claim the province for you (eg. Horde from Hell, Ghost Riders) are not OK? It may be hard to make those restrictions clear to all the players, especially if you're mainly courting newish players. You could make a mod that doesn't allow the spells you don't want - that might be the cleanest way.

Re: Assassinations, you realize that sneaky units (assassins) have a chance of being found? And once found by patrollers or PD, a buff enough sneaky unit has a chance of defeating crappy PD (low levels of monkey PD, for example). Since there's a chance that your assassin could take an enemy province, wouldn't this behavior (Assneakassination? Assneakination?) be disallowed?

Re: Vet as Central Power - this sounds like you want someone to GM a game for you (sort of - not quite). I take it this vet isn't allowed to play to win, he's just there to add challenge for the newb players? Ie. he's playing OppFor. That would probably be a lot of work for that player, running this game and making trouble for the players surrounding him, his goal not victory but spiteful resistance to the last. No hope of conquest himself, his only joy being the frustration of his opponents. You might throw him a bone - his one method of victory is dom push. Make him a blood nation and this becomes a really weird Newbs vs A Single Vet scenario. Most guys probably wouldn't be into that, but there could well be a vet out there who would love it. If you find that guy, he might be your game creator, admin, oppfor all in one. Call him Pantokrator - he's not there to kill the new pretenders to godhood, just to frustrate and annoy them to ensure that whoever knocks him off his throne truly deserves to be the new god of the world. It's kinda starting to sound like an entertaining newbie game format, but the entire thing hinges on who you find to play that central role of Game Admin / Veteran "AI" Puppetmaster / OppFor.

One other random thought - if you want to de-emphasize the bless rush, what about using the mod that turns off research, and starts all nations at level 6 research in all paths? It's a mod that takes you straight to mid-game fighting; you don't recruit mages for efficient research (there is none), you just make mages that can cast the spells you want (summons, battlemages, forgers, ritual casters, etc). Since bless nations tend to have the greatest advantage early, that mod might level the playing field a bit by starting the game off at a mid-game research level.

Responses are in response to each paragraph in order.

Perish the thought Hrum. Never took a negative connotation from your comments yet.

I am tossing it out into this group of folks for a kind of feasibility study. After all we obviously don't mind odd setups with the turbocharged concept. I did toss out the idea once already with a post. However, it was not fleshed out and got zero,zip,zilch interest. If I can flesh it out some more at least initially with your guys help I may generate a bit more interest.

I don't see critical mass generating on this game starting anytime soon.

The game as I'm conceptualizing it is each player for himself, a few independents toughened as in this game, and possibly the toughened central Power.

I was playing an MA_Ctis game in SP because I just love their gold production bonus under high dominion and was sick of playing games where I was a broke joke. Then I began to read up on strategies and saw that MA_Ctis and the other dominion effect empires are much hated in MP. So the concept of creating a game where they could get a chance to bring their dominion effects into play without worrying about mad blessed giant rushes occured to me.

Don't have any experience on dominion pushes it was just a brainstorming idea to further maximize a strategy that doesnt seem to get much of a fair shot in MP. I can take it or leave it in the game creation. But, I would like other more experienced players to weigh in on how dominion push victories would work/play out in such a game. You maybe correct on the blood nations. LA_Ermor maybe the only exception and only as the large Central power.

I'd attempt this in SP mode with all AI's just to see it in action but I haven't the foggiest clue on how to mod things. I barely comprehend the game as created.

I also really like NTJedi's idea of victory points. I'd further make those locations even more enticing by somehow bulking them up. Either, key choke points, gold bonus, or max magic site frequency, perhaps if possible modifying cost/resource of useful units. 1gp/1rp crossbowmen? Or, is that just a programming nightmare for the poor sap whos gonna actually craft this game.

I've conceptualized this game in my mind as a kind of real life political struggle amongst loosely allied conquered nations of LA_Ermor. They see the path that Ermor is going down and want to break free of that certain death sentence. The only ones who are making a fair attempt are those with strong dominion effects of their own. But, as in real life political allies don't necessarily mean best buds. No overt physical troop attacks. Magic and assassination is fair game even if it nets you an enemy territory. I'd keep research the same so that globals would become necessary and coveted. With high magic resources I expect to see ALOT of spell spam and dueling globals.
On that note should wish be banned, do you think?

Your summation of the Pantokrator is exactly what I was thinking, if not so elegantly laid out. Perhaps a puppetmaster victory condition that if no one holds X number of victory points say by turn 101 then he wins. This would give a master manipulator the chance to meddle with others for the sheer fun of it, AND help him achieve his victory condition. He sees Kingdom A is gonna fall soon if something doesnt change so he sends Kingdom A 100 gems 10k gold...bam kingdom a is kicking Kingdom B and C's butt.
Perhaps give the Pantokrator two of the assassin capable heroes if there is a mod that does that.

[endomorphious]

New turn up.

[Mauxe]

I am doing a little dance down here trying to get myself geared up to take on this giant head. Once I can take this fortress I hope to have a much better foothold on Abysia's lands....

[Doo]

My attempt at attacking some underwater provinces was terribly poor...

On the up side Atlantis knows I want war so it might shift some focus onto me :)

Next turn up.

[endomorphious]

Ok update I am sieging two atlantis forts on my northern most border. I may take one next turn. But he has his entire sea area to recruit defenders/attackers from so Im in for a vicious struggle if i don't pull out some fancy tricks soon. I'm so severly hampered by gold. Really, really underestimated that variable from my SP experience. One strong force from him would ruin my day as he ransacked my weak undefended provinces. My death gem income is also very sadly lacking in comparison to my other games as is my expansion. Ahh well it is at least more fun :}

I am trading water and fire gems at 3:1 for death gems if anyone has spares. I now have leviathan and I plan on spamming it along with construction of fear inducing magic items to pillage undefended water provinces. Depending how those trades go, if anyone is in the position to cast a counter to Atlantis maelstrom i can/will donate up to a 100 gems to it. I really don't want them with that benefit for too long.

anyone who can make wall shaker or other seige bonus items? I can trade earth boots, dwarven hammers, or crystal coins.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I think I am about to kill Tien Chi, I believe.

[Mauxe]

Nice. I will be storming the fort in 2 turns with a good enough force I believe.
Has everyone else dropped off.. been quiet here..

[Doo]

endomorphious, I'll shoot you through some gold and item soon.

[Hrum]

Turn 51 is up.

Nice work on TC guys!

Nice. I will be storming the fort in 2 turns with a good enough force I believe.
Has everyone else dropped off.. been quiet here..I think we're all still here. In my case, I've been somewhat overwhelmed by work and other RL stuff.

Glad to hear that your war with Abysia has been going well! Let me know if you need me to drop a teleporting thug in somewhere for you, but it sounds like it probably isn't necessary.

Abysia is a punk and deserves to be stomped under foot. He keeps casting Imprint Souls (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Imprint_Souls) on my backfield. I guess that's his revenge for my taking all his stuff in the south. BTW, he completely bloodhunted his southern fort into uselessness. Assuming that all of the AI starting forts were set up like capitals (~30k pop), he really did some work on this one to take it down to 10% of it's starting population.

BTW Mauxe, I've been intentionally trying to leave you a corridor of indie provinces leading to the coast. If Atlantis comes stomping up on land here Doo or I may need to bash him, but other than that my intention is to make sure you have a path to the water for the final conflict under the waves.

I am trading water and fire gems at 3:1 for death gems if anyone has spares. I now have leviathan and I plan on spamming it along with construction of fear inducing magic items to pillage undefended water provinces. Depending how those trades go, if anyone is in the position to cast a counter to Atlantis maelstrom i can/will donate up to a 100 gems to it. I really don't want them with that benefit for too long.Your good friend Kailasa asks that you not try to counter/dispell his global spell Maestrom. :)

If you're not sure who has a particular global up, you can always click "Magic:Global Enchantments" (or just hit F6) to see the list of globals that are up, with the flag of the player who cast each. The friendly yellow flag is the flag of your friend Fejara, peaceful oracle of truth, ruler of the monkeys. :)

Yes, I just cast Mother Oak as well. Gems are shiny and make monkeys happy.

In other news, I like water gems. I feel it would be highway robbery if I were to except 3 water gems from your for every death gem I send - I would be embarassed and ashamed to take advantage of you that way. But I do love water gems, so I'm more than willing to trade with you (1 for 1 is fine with me). I'm not heavily overburdened in death gems, but I can send you some.

And sorry I haven't kept up with the gold - I'll send you some more of that too.

anyone who can make wall shaker or other seige bonus items? I can trade earth boots, dwarven hammers, or crystal coins.Doo mentioned sending you stuff a turn or 2 ago - are you all set on siege items now? I'm forging a gate cleaver in case you need more of 'em, just let me know. As above I'm happy to receive water gems in exchange for pretty much whatever. :)

Endomorphious, as I said to Mauxe above, if you want me to I could drop a teleporting thug in on an Atlantis province for you. My thug is not currently amphibious (I need to fix that!), but I'm gonna be retrofitting him for water operations soon. So, for the next turn or two this offer only applies to dry land provinces. My golem is a size 5 trampler, so he works best against hordes of crappy human size stuff - good for raiding PD and whatnot.

In other news, I'm sparking things off with Atlantis this turn. He conquered the southern indie water provinces, which means he now borders my entire coastline. Kailasa will not stand for this! Err, hopefully I won't. We'll see if I sent enough troops. :D

[endomorphious]

Turn 52 up. Thank you all for your help especially you Tir na Nog and you Kailas. Major major help. This will help me significantly in the short run against atlantis. Which should at least let me situate myself to become a big pain in the tookus for atlantis. My plan is Darkness, teams of 5 leviathans, support lizardmen to spam body ethereal, and some skelly spam peons, as well as a few amphib commanders carrying fear spam items. I will hopefully be casting well of misery next turn thanks to the gems i was given in trade. Income is slowly starting to inch up. Can anyone make alchemy stones? I would like to trade for one. I have an alchemist site and with the alchemy stone the pain of alchemy wont be to to bad. Im sure Im missing something important so just shoot me a mssg.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm attacking the indie province with a ton of pretenders and demons, I'm sure to get my butt kicked, but thought it would be fun as my northern army is far from the fight anyway now with TC gone.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Got my butt totally kicked, that province has the entire pantheon of Norse gods with a demon army, they are some tough buggers...

[Hrum]

Got my butt totally kicked, that province has the entire pantheon of Norse gods with a demon army, they are some tough buggers...Pantheon of norse gods?! I take it that means a bunch of titans? Sounds rough. What kind of demons and how many?

I don't know that we heard how the final battle with TC went. If you don't mind telling the tale, how did you defeat him?

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I crushed TC with superior numbers and a ton of lightning up his butt. It was fairly anti-climatic.

[endomorphious]

Hi all,

Seems like everyone is doing a great job. If i owe anyone anything lease send me a message. My computer has gone wonky and waiting for new build from newegg.com. Until then I have to limp forward and may be delayed in my turns. The comp is horribly unstable.

[Doo]

Hi all,

Been a while since I posted anything, thought I'd update on whats going on. Its all been pretty quiet, I sent a force of thugs under the sea and they got thumped. I'm now busy kicking the sea dwellers off my land and forging for a supported invasion.

If people want Barrels of Air forged, sent me the hammer cost in gems.

:)

[Hrum]

Heads up: Only ~12 hours left before this turn cycles.

Does anyone have any spare fire gems that they would be willing to trade? I could use some (20? more?) and my production still isn't what I'd like it to be. In trade I can offer astral pearls, as well as water and nature gems at 1 for 1. In a pinch I could probably even scare up other types as well.

I gave my forces orders to take the following sea provinces from Atlantis this turn:

Angry Sea (83)
Sea of Saints (80)

I don't have any particular desire for or claim to those territories. I am seizing them from Atlantis solely to protect my flank from his attacks. If someone else wants either of those provinces, just say the word.

Endomorphious, I moved in to take Sertiwo Land (58), a fort held by Atlantis on the east side of the great north-south river of the southern continent. It occured to me after the fact that I should've given you a heads up about that, so that our forces don't collide if you had designs on that same province. You've had a longer and harder fight with Atlantis than I have, so I think that gives you the greater claim on any contested Atlantis territory on which you and I are descending. If you want that province (58) you are welcome to it, just let me know.

Kailasa can report good success in our battles with Atlantis thus far. Barrels of Air are a great boon, but so far we have gotten by supplying our Yaksha with Sea King's Goblets.

How does everyone else fare? How goes the war between C'Tis and Atlantis? Tir na n'Og? Atlantis loves doing coastal raids, doesn't he? I'm sending some sacred troops into his underwater lair to see how he likes it.

How goes Caelum's war with Abysia? Mauxe, let me know if you want me to drop a thug in on one of his provinces. With a turn's notice I should be able to kit a thug out for anti-Abysia operations if you need a hand, but it looks like Abysia is on the ropes.

[Mauxe]

Should be on the ropes, yes.. but I need to get a better strat to take out his fort. I am wworking on an upgraded thug I guess.. my Bag Kings + Storm don't seem to do the trick.

[Hrum]

Per Gandalf's status page, 20 hours left on Turn 60.

http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/privategames.cgi

How are things going in the land of C'Tis?

BTW, guys, I'll be travelling out of town this weekend. I don't think it will affect my ability to get my turns in as I should have Internet and whatnot, but I wanted to give you a heads up.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'm going to have a huge land war with Atlantis. They've got a lot of land near my capital. But, we Fomorians are Sea Gods! We will push them from the land and then slaughter them in the sea!

[Hrum]

Turn 62 is up (as of 4 hours ago).

I hope noone staled on that last one - I noticed a couple people had yet to take their turns last night, but then RL grabbed me and wouldn't let go so I didn't get a chance to post a reminder here.

I'm going to have a huge land war with Atlantis. They've got a lot of land near my capital. But, we Fomorians are Sea Gods! We will push them from the land and then slaughter them in the sea!Fishmen! It's what's for dinner! :)

In other news, Atlantis overcast Mother Oak on me! How dare he?!

If noone else has anything to say about it, I am happy enough to take it back from him, but it occurs to me (having had 4/5 globals up for a while now) that maybe someone else wants to overcast Mother Oak, or put up an entirely different global..?

So, basically, Kailasa asks that her allies let her know if they intend to contest Atlantis' possession of that global slot so that we do not waste gems contesting each other rather than our shared enemy: The Fishmen!

If one of you wants to replace Mother Oak with something, or take it away from Atlantis, that would be great. Kailasa will even offer her assistance in dispelling Mother Oak for one of you, if that would help..?

But if you guys don't have any designs on that global spot Kailasa is more than happy to overcast Mother Oak if for no other reason than to deny Atlantis those gems.

[Hrum]

Hey guys, sorry for running behind on getting my turn in. I noticed that Dom3minions reset the the turn timer last night, and since I got home really late I didn't do my turn. I'll get it in tonight as soon as I get home from work.

[Doo]

Hows everyone going?

All pretty quiet in the lands of Tir na n'Og, summoning Tartarians and forging items...

We must be getting near the end, I'm seeing monkeys swimming in the water.

[Hrum]

We must be getting near the end, I'm seeing monkeys swimming in the water.

It's hard to fling poo underwater, and the results... are not good.

You got your Tart summoning up! Nice!

Things in the land of Kailasa are going apace. As TNN has observed, we have made forays into the water and are basically holding a defensive line since we don't want to push too far beyond our share of underwater territory. There was a time when there was plenty of Atlantis for all, but fishmen are becoming scarce and those interested should get some while the catch is still plentiful.

In other news, we are concerned about our neighbor C'Tis. Our scouts inform us that his offensive has ground to a halt, and his defense recently hasn't been what it once was (some of his forts are in peril from Atlantis armies, and the defenders dwindle with no friendly relief armies in sight). It was known that he experienced gold shortages, perhaps that is the reason?

More alarming still is that no new messages have been received from his C'Tis in many months.

--

BTW, I checked Endo's stats on the forums here and he hasn't been on the forums since 4/7. His last post mentions computer problems. Has anyone heard from him?

I'm worried that he might be staling (any way to verify on Dom3minions?) due to computer issues or something. It would be good if he could give us a heads up on how things are going with that.

[Doo]

Endo did indeed stale this turn. He has staled the last three turns and maybe some before that.

Gentlemen, I suspect he is out of the game... I've been sending him cash too... :)