SeaOfInnocence - All ages newb game

[iRFNA]

We're playing a water heavy map, so we need a minimum of 3 water nations in this game! The advantages are rather obvious: darling, it's better down where it's wetter. Take it from me.

The game is for newbs using the definition of under 10 MP games played. There are no rules, if someone does something stupid like copying bogus orders or blah blah the list goes on and on, we gangbang them. Simple!

Here's a pretty picture (the map is wrap-around):
http://i.imgur.com/hCBve.png

Mods:
Single Age Mod (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6299&d=1212179279)
Llama's Streamers and Standards (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6545&d=1218103230)
CBM 1.83 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10876&d=1299434945)
CPCS 0.94 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10918&d=1300726709) (for info, see the CPCS thread (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=55), my version should have most spelling errors fixed and makes no changes to the actual spells besides a single bugfix)

Info:
Host: Gandalf's server (game.dom3minions.com), direct connect
Port: I'll PM it, make sure your PMs are enabled!
Map: Galadia 2 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10894&d=1300314550)
Players: 14

Settings:
36-72(+?) hour quickhost (discuss)
35 magic site frequency
Score graphs off
No nation info (can't read pretender names and titles in statistics)
Renaming on
15 Hall of Fame entries
Everything else default

Players:
iRFNA - MA Man
Thanatus del Dragos - LA Jomon - AI
lwarmonger - MA Ulm
Admiral_Aorta - LA Atlantis - AI
Echodyne - EA Ermor - AI
NaivePhilosopher - EA Atlantis - DEAD
Technomancer - MA Marignon - DEAD
Numahr - MA Shinuyama
Soyweiser - MA Bandar Log - DEAD
SKYNET - LA Ermor - DEAD
bbz - EA Maverni
Admiral_Aorta - EA Caelum
Quell - MA R'lyeh
Ragabash - EA Yomi - AI



If you want to quit mid-game for whatever reason, please allow me to find a sub! Just post and say you're done! Having someone stale out or spontaneously go AI really sucks! It's ok if you're losing and want to quit, just say so in this thread and let me find a sub!!!

[Thanatus del Dragos]

I'll take Jomon.

[iRFNA]

You're gonna have a lot of fun with those crosspath spells

[lwarmonger]

I'd like to play MA Ulm. Try boxing me in now iRFNA!

[Admiral_Aorta]

I'll take LA Atlantis. Does that count as one of the three water nations or not?

[lwarmonger]

I would argue not, since you don't start in the water.

[Admiral_Aorta]

Yeah I thought so, but I thought I'd ask anyway. :)

[iRFNA]

It's more important to me that all your troops are (fully, not partially) amphibious than where you start, but I do admit that LA atlantis is a gray area as far as "water nation" is concerned. I think it's good enough to count, though.

As much as I'd like to try out my altered MA man strat, I think I'm gonna mix things up and go MA pangaea. Gah, or maybe not.. I just don't know

[Admiral_Aorta]

You should go with Pangaea and flood the world with frenzied naked women.

[iRFNA]

That's what I was going to do, but the micro.. dear god, the micro

That, and wrathful skies

[rabelais]

Lovely game, wish I qualifed as a newb. Is that map big enough for 15?

[iRFNA]

217 provs / 15 players ~= 14.5 provs per player

The "under 10 games" thing isn't some sort of hard cap, honestly.

[Echodyne]

1st REAL attempt at MP:

I would love to jump in as EA Ermor.

Quick question: your crosspath spell file is .rar? Is that right? How do I get it to run?

[iRFNA]

It's an archive, like .zip. If you don't have a program that can open it, try using winrar (http://www.win-rar.com/download.html).

I just assumed all the typical programs supported .rar anymore, but I guess there are still some stragglers. I will attach .zip versions to the OP in case that is easier for you. Here they are:

Galadia 2 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10896&d=1300334267)
CPCS 0.93+ (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10897&d=1300334273)

[NaivePhilosopher]

Well, since we seem to be assembling a large fraction of that old gang again, I figure I'll toss my hat into the ring. Though at this rate we'll quickly run ourselves out of newbie games (This one'll put me at 5, counting subs.)

I'd like to give EA Atlantis a shot; we need the water nations and I haven't actually played one yet in SP or MP, so it should be a good learning experience.

[Technomancer]

First mp game, and I'm rather... well, I have a lot of learning to do. Figure this might be as good a place as any to start.

MA Marignon, if you please.

[Numahr]

I'm a bit on the edge regarding # of games (9), but still OK if we consider # of games actually completed and those where I have met an unfortunate end early on.

I would like to try MA Tien Chi in this plane. This nation has been allegedly nerfed by the unique hammers making boosters more expansive, but should be a nice laboratory for cross-path spells I guess. So let's see!

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Please no more than 48 hour turns, except in rare cases.

[Numahr]

[QUOTE=Numahr;773241]I would like to try MA Tien Chi in this plane. QUOTE]

OK after some tests, I realize I am not very well comfortable with TC, so I'd rather pick MA Shinumaya

[Soyweiser]

As my lankan adventure is almost over. I would like to join this one as MA Bandar Log.

[SirMu]

LA Ermor, please.

[iRFNA]

Just when I thought we'd be free from the undead hordes...

[SirMu]

What if I told you we were the undead hordes of pacifism?

[iRFNA]

In that case, I'd leave any borders between our nations completely unguarded. It's nice to know the undead are so kind! It makes sense, too. It's not like they get any enjoyment out of pillaging and raping the countryside, so why bother?

[SirMu]

You're right, it's not enjoyable at all. Being mindless will do that. On the flip side, we don't get any enjoyment out of puppies or rainbows, either. It's kind of depressing, except not, because of that whole no emotions thing I just got done explaining.

:|

[bbz]

Count me in as EA Hinnom.
Unless the slot for bandar log gets free:D

[bbz]

Actually I'll change my mind I will go as EA Marverni.

[SirMu]

Perhaps it's just bad luck on my part, but I was testing out the map/settings/my nation and I'm on turn, oh, I don't even know. And you know how many sites I've found? Pidly. I'm averaging about 1 site per 3 provinces. Perhaps we should up the site frequency to 40?

[Admiral_Aorta]

I noticed in NewbsGoneWild that sites were a bit hard to come by, but there were still quite a few. I even got a conjuration bonus site.

[SirMu]

Also, apparently I can't cast Gift of Reason on undead units (that's what it says), but it works perfectly fine on my normal undead units, just not Tarts. :re:

How am I supposed to get commander tarts, besides the tarts that start out as commanders?

[Admiral_Aorta]

You're not, that's the point of the nerf. Although I'm not sure if it not affecting other undead is a bug or not.

[iRFNA]

I like 35 magic site freq, it keeps magic gems from getting too out of hand. You got unlucky, but it can still happen in the MP game. There's still plenty of sites to forge equipment and such, quell proved that in newbsgonewild :(

[Numahr]

I think we should define random starting locations. All maps either include them or someone adds them to avoid unbalanced starting locations and give every one more or less even chances to expand.

[iRFNA]

How balanced is balanced enough? I currently have the map setup so all starting locations have at least 3 adjacent provs of the same type (land for land, sea for sea). The "docks" provs are also all set to not be starting locations, since they are such critical chokepoints. I could also remove starts from provs with over, say, 5 adjacent provs.

[Numahr]

Adjacent provinces is one thing; distance between nations is an even more important factor, that can only be dealt with through defined random starting locations.

The process is very easy to do and I can volunteer for it. Since I am a player, I would post starting locations here for the sake of transparancy. Of course ideally, an external player would do it, like it happens with Calahan's newbee games, where Calahan defines starting locations without players knowing where are others' starting locations. Maybe you can ask one of the community "leaders"?

I am perfectly fine with no defined random locations though if admin / other players prefer it this way :)

[iRFNA]

I didn't run into any problems the last 2 games concerning starting locations, but it really depends on what everyone wants. What does anyone else think?

[SirMu]

In n00bsOfDoom, 3 players started right next to one another (myself included) while another 3 had ample room to expand.

[iRFNA]

Ew, the game actually lets people start in adjacent provs?

I'll edit the map so there are spaced out random start locs for 15ish (a bit more, just for proper land/water # of nations buffering) players, starting right next to someone would be ridiculous.

[SirMu]

Allow me to redefine right next to each other: Within 2 provinces of each other, so capital independent independent capital. Still annoying though when it's 3 people like that and 3, well, not.

[rabelais]

I do recommend that you not make swamps/wastes nostart, except for the middles of large clusters of them. swamp and waste make fine caps, but starting surrounded by them is deadly.

[Numahr]

Allow me to redefine right next to each other: Within 2 provinces of each other, so capital independent independent capital. Still annoying though when it's 3 people like that and 3, well, not.

This is exactly what I mean by imbalance, this has a deep effect you do not see in the first 5 turns, but later in the game. Nations who are far from other can continue expanding against indies late into year 2 while others are forced to enter in early competition for land early one. This is what I propose to eliminate by an even distribution of capitals all over the map with roughly the same area in between them.

[Admiral_Aorta]

It's just occurred to me that Bogarus didn't seem to have many close neighbors in NewbsGoneWild, whereas Man and C'tis were quite close to each other. That might not be the case though.

[Calahan]

From what I know of random starts and map balancing (and I've done a lot of the latter to have a fairly good idea), starts that are randomly generated for a map will try (if there is space) to ensure that capitals are at least two provinces apart. But it won't make any attempt to space them out.

eg. A 26 province straight line map (provinces named in order A-Z) could see start locations at A, D, G etc, but not A, C, E. But if four players were on the map, you could easily get highly unbalanced start locations such as A, D, G and Z. (since as I say, the random start algorithm makes no attempt to "space out" starting locations. Or at least not that I've ever seen)

[Soyweiser]

ps, if no other players want to play water nations, I'm willing to switch to LA R'lyeh. So far I have not been able to do anything with them even in SP. So that should not be to OP.

[bbz]

then I am willing to switch to bandar log:D lol(sorry that I change my choice so often but the monkeys have always been my first choice)That is of course of Soyweiser decides to change to R'lyeh.

[Soyweiser]

Only if there are no other UW nations. la rlyeh just gets steamrolled if there are other underwater nations. And MA rlyeh is a bit boring.

[bbz]

yep:) otherwise I'm staying with Marverni.

[iRFNA]

Well, this game needs 3 UW nations because of the map, so I guess that makes the choice for you!

[bbz]

hmm didnt you say that you'd count LA Atlantis as a water nation?:)

[iRFNA]

Ya, it also makes it easier with LA ermor, them being somewhat watery. So we only need one more water nation.

[Echodyne]

It took some fiddling with folders in this silly Windows 7 thing but I managed to get all the mods and maps working. Thanks iRFNA.

Now to finalize my pretender. Are we still aiming for 14 players?

[bbz]

yea so why can't Soyweiser be R'lyeh then? if we only need 1 more water nation and he wants to try R'lyeh if there are no more water nations (and there wont be since he'll be the last water nation).

[Mauxe]

Is this game still looking for players?

[Soyweiser]

jomon also has water units (They have a special water unit). And LA atlantis starts on land.

So the competition for the water will be hard. R'lyeh does have a natural advantage. But you have no gold to recruit mages. So that kinda sucks. But your dominion makes everything suck for invaders.

[iRFNA]

Ya, it is, mauxe, we need 3 more

And I still want one more water nation, cause this map is very heavy on the water. Jomon's water units are summon only, so they are still limited in number vs recruitable troops.

One thing to mention about LA r'lyeh, the freespawns no longer cost upkeep in the latest version of the CBM.

[Soyweiser]

I think playing LA r'lyeh with other water nations is just an instant defeat.

[iRFNA]

Probably, but EA r'lyeh would be a whole other story

[bbz]

ah I see so you are afraid that they are going to be over-powered. I think the upkeep-free freespawn is not going to affect them as much their population still dies quite fast so at some point their remain without gold.

[Soyweiser]

Actually LA Jomon has some secret fort recruitable units. I still have to add them to the wiki.

[NaivePhilosopher]

I'm not sure if it's just dropped off the map or if I'm missing a large chunk of the underwater discussion due to being a bit too tired at the moment, but I'm still slated in for EA Atlantis (I believe) so there will be at least one traditional water nation in the game.

[Soyweiser]

I though LA Atlantis. I'll play Bandar then.

Ps: added underwater recruits to the wiki.
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Human_Daimyos#Underwater_recruits

Not my best work, but at least is now on the wiki.

[bbz]

damn it:D Didnt manage to grab them:P

[Admiral_Aorta]

No, he's playing EA atlantis, I'm playing LA atlantis.

[iRFNA]

Those LA jomon water units are pretty cool. I never knew about that!

[Soyweiser]

But those Ryujin are good enough as Jomon to consider to get a water province as quickly as possible.

[SirMu]

Can't wait to take over the world with swarms of peaceful skeletons and hugging ghouls.

Vote LA Ermor for ruler of the world!

[Mauxe]

I'll play then. just need to pick.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Mauxe, pick a water nation, we need more of those.

[Quell]

I'd like to join as MA R'lyeh please. Also could you save a slot for my friend Ragabash as EA Yomi? He's new and is waiting for his account to be confirmed

[Numahr]

Funny to see so many nations selected throughout different ages:
- EA and LA Ermor
- EA and LA Atlantis
- EA Yomi, MA Shinu and LA Jomon

This can create some interesting game situations and battles... We Japan-like nations are particularly well represented!

[iRFNA]

Awesome, that fills us up!

Now, I have no experience with this "filling the map with set starting locations" thing that was being discussed. What commands are used? Are nations given static locations or do I nostart every prov except 14 chosen ones?

[Soyweiser]

I think you should ask Calahan about that. He seems to have more exp in setting up games and maps.

[Numahr]

You simply add to the map file as many
#start province nbr
as you have players, and each player will start at one of these selected locations, selected randomly for each nation.

The point is space evenly the starting locations.

I did it for Troubling Times on the Faerun Map and I can do it here too, but if an "innocent hand" does it, starting locations can be kept secret. If I do it, I will know all starting locations and I will share them with you for transparency, so each player will know where other capitals are located. Less fun than having to discover them.

[SirMu]

Great, I can't wait to start...

...Now if only I could figure out my strategy; every test I do in SP goes horribly, horribly wrong. (At least, as horribly wrong as you can go in Single Player, which is winning very slowly)

[iRFNA]

Ok, that's easy enough. It would be better if an independent person did the start locs, but I guess I'll probably do them and obviously have a picture showing where they are. Unless you really want to do it Numahr. I'll wait for mauxe to pick his nation so I know how many UW spots we have. Mauxe, what are ya gonna be?

Also, there is a updated version of CPCS with a massive single bugfix thankfully hunted down by soyweiser. clicky (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10918&d=1300726709)

[Numahr]

iRFNA, I was ready to volunteer for it if nobody else did, but you taking care of it as admin makes more sense

[iRFNA]

Ok, the server is up for people to send in pretenders. When mauxe picks his nation, I'll add start points and post a picture. I've PMed the port to everyone except ragabash, who doesn't have PMs turned on. While I'm sure you can tell him it, quell, it's probably a good idea for him to enable them for diplomacy reasons.

[Admiral_Aorta]

After disconnecting from the server, the only 2 mods that are enabled are single age and standards and streamers, no CBM or CSPS. I assume this is a mistake?

[iRFNA]

I noticed that as well, but maybe it's because the server isn't fully running yet? It was definitely given the command to run all the mods...

[Mauxe]

Sorry, did you need/want me to pick a water nation or can I take any free?

[iRFNA]

You can pick whatever you want, we have all the water nations we need, but there's nothing stopping you from being one too if you want.

[Mauxe]

Ok, I'll take EA Caelum.

[iRFNA]

Alright, let me whip up a starting positioned map real quick!

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Cant connect to Gandolfs server any more for some reason...

[iRFNA]

He must be messing with it. I'm sure it'll be back up soon and/or he'll send me an email about it.

Here's a first draft on start locs, look ok?
http://i.imgur.com/GMEXg.png

[SirMu]

There's only 2 provinces separating the starting points at provinces 37 and 23.

[iRFNA]

Good catch, I've updated my post with a version that moves the starting position at 23 to 10. That puts a 3 prov gap between it and the one to the south of it, is that acceptable considering the open expanses bordering them in different directions and the choke point between them?

Although the more I look at that prov on the 4 prov island on the top left (193), the more I think it is getting the shaft.

[SirMu]

Yeah, maybe put it down one so it's right next to the bridge?

[iRFNA]

Ok, I moved that and a couple nearby locs to even things out a bit. So this thread doesn't get crowded with what could be billions of images, here's a link instead of just displaying it (http://i.imgur.com/33NJ2.png)

Here's a different arrangement (http://i.imgur.com/EmuCw.png) with that continent I'm agonizing over being reduced to 3 start locations

[SirMu]

I like the one with the 4 start locations on that continent better; with the 3 location start, the guy on the continent below that one, in the forest next to the bridge, is getting shafted.

Also, am I able to upload a different pretender?

[iRFNA]

Click your nation on the list and it prompts you for replacing the pretender with a new one.

[Admiral_Aorta]

God uploaded, the mod problem seems to have sorted itself out.

[Numahr]

So is the map at the following location the final version?
http://i.imgur.com/33NJ2.png

[Echodyne]

Did we agree on a turn length yet?

[Admiral_Aorta]

48 hours sounds good.

[Ragabash]

Finally, I'm approved.

Greetings from the great oni lords, I wish you good luck, great deal of fun and fierce battles so that the lands shall burn and waters boil... cause, erm... you know, us demons love chaos and stuff ;)

Anyhow, I was able to connect, didn't have a pretender yet, wondering, how much time do we have to get them going? Want to playtest a build or two :)
Um, thanks for taking me in, my PMing is on, and I think that's it for now.

[iRFNA]

We've got everyone in but mauxe. I'm using the "4 on that arbitrary 2nd continent" map (http://i.imgur.com/IrvsP.png) that numahr commented on last with a tiny adjustment: the water start on the top right was right next to a capital, so it is moved one prov to the right. I loaded the map up in SP with our chosen nations and the game picked starts without a hitch, so it seems to be a valid configuration.

Does this seem ok?

[SirMu]

Well the link doesn't lead to anything, but it sounds okay.

[iRFNA]

Hey mauxe, everything is waiting on you submitting your pretender to the server

[Thanatus del Dragos]

While we wait, I figure we could have inane conversation...So...I'm playing Jomon...no Shields. I was thinking, since it's based on Feudal Japan, does this mean that the Japanese never used shields? Seems strange to me...

[bbz]

You are correct they didnt use shields.(At least not durring samurai period) Apparently Samurai worriors started as horse arches. And their sword is also made to be used with two hands for the greatest effect so a shild would have been a hindrance.

[Ragabash]

Why do you need shields, when you have the most awesome sword in the world? The whole philosophy of swordsmanship in japanese culture is based on relentless attacks and sometimes counter-attacks, no defense.

For example, if two samurai of equal level and equal height would duel, it was common for both of them to die, because of the whole cut or be cut ideology.

[Admiral_Aorta]

And later on most samurai used guns, but dominons doesn't have any of those.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Hmm, I think there is more myth than reality to what is known of the Samurai and Katana. They are archers, I would think that a shield would be a great idea for countering the archers. But, maybe their armor was made specially to use against arrows?

[Mauxe]

apologies... I will be in this evening.

[Ragabash]

Well, wasn't in feudal Japan, can't tell the measures of myth and reality, but I do kendo for some time, so as far as I have heard from some good sources (people who trained in Tokyo police dojo and trained with the imperial guard), that the whole all attack/no defense philosophy does stand. And from a practical standpoint: if you don't attack and try to defend - you're a goner.

And the archer bit, not familiar with that part, the armor idea seems plausible, will try to check it out if an opportunity occurs.

[SirMu]

Dominions 3: The only game I've known where the players discuss the historical accuracy during their downtime.

[Admiral_Aorta]

Okay guys, I'm pretty sure that ancient Egypt wasn't inhabited by lizard men. This is a serious historical inaccuracy that needs addressing.

[iRFNA]

I don't think christianity turned all the citizens of rome into the undead, either...

...yet

[Echodyne]

I've seen it stated repeatedly in history books that samurai were primarily horse archers. As far as shields go, a single samurai carried a variety of weapons as their standard arsenal: a bow, a katana, a shorter secondary blade, and a slashing polearm (I have forgotten the Japanese names for both of these), all used for different combat situations. As all but one of these are two-handed weapons, a shield would just be a hindrance.

I have heard from a veteran SCA-er (they are absolutely obsessive about this kind of thing) that medieval katanas were made from a softer iron than the steel we imagine today. Yes, it was capable of being folded into insanely sharp weapons by some of the finest smiths in the world, but it could not actually *parry* another katana of the same make without damaging itself. Weather this helped lead to the offensive samurai style, or the style led to the development of the weapon, I cannot say.

Samurai used guns? The way I understood it, guns were outright banned, even for the nobility, for a very long time, and when they were finally adopted, it was simultaneous to the adoption of the entire western warfare strategy of the late 19th century and the samurai class was left in the dust.

Ancient Egypt was DEFINITELY inhabited by lizardmen. Don't you pay attention to bio-anthropology?

[Echodyne]

Also I vote 48 hour turn-cycles.

[bbz]

yea 48 hrs turn is good as long as you don't get people stalling every turn:)

[NaivePhilosopher]

\As far as shields go, a single samurai carried a variety of weapons as their standard arsenal: a bow, a katana, a shorter secondary blade, and a slashing polearm (I have forgotten the Japanese names for both of these)


Wakazashi and naginata, IIRC, though don't quote me on that.

48 hour turns sound good to me, though I'm willing to go shorter or longer if anyone has any other preferences.

[SirMu]

48 sounds just fine.

[Echodyne]

Thanks Philo. That sounds right.

By "bio-anthropology" I meant Stargate: SG-1. My apologies.

[Ragabash]

Yup, that's the names for the weapons. And also going with the whole two-handedness thing, the only one-handed weapon mentioned before, the wakizashi, was basically the main thing, that separated a soldier from a samurai. If a person had a wakizashi, that meant he's from nobility, or a samurai, otherwise, without the wakizashi, a person was a mere soldier. It was the only weapon, that a samurai could carry into a household of another nobility.

So that leaves all the other weapons to the cannon fodder, hence - no shields.

And if we'd take into account all the other one-handed weapons, as I can think of this little sickle, the kama, that was used in Japan as a weapon, if I'm not mistaken, those were a reaction to the ban of swords for the common men. Farmers and other not so noble and cool people had to defend themselves, so they adapted. However, these adaptation, to my knowledge, were never widely used in armies and major battles.

Oh, and I agree with the 48h, got carried away : )

[iRFNA]

Server is up!

[SirMu]

Yep! Already played my turn. If any of you would like to submit to the peaceful undead legions now, we would be happy to march straight to your capital and shake your hand, following by showering you with flowers.

[Soyweiser]

Ps these provinces contain caps:
Caps:
10
26
33
37
66
72
113
133
134
136
169
173
188
205

And some starting locations are way better than others. (If you have 4+ provinces next to your cap you can gather much higher resources).

[Echodyne]

What's with the VP markers? They don't seem to match the capital #s. Is there a pic forthcoming?

[iRFNA]

They are randomly added and there is no VP victory setting. Controlling a prov with one is like having a 5 dominion temple, that's all.

On the starting locs, I tried to keep as many land starting locs as close to having 3 (no less) good land provs adjacent as possible. A few have 4, but not many. I figure the adjacent water provs is a mixed bag; you actually have to wrest them away from the water nations, and said water nations can also directly assail your capital from the sea. Of course, that's not so bad for LA atlantis, but the game forces them to start by a coast regardless. If anyone does have any complaints, I wish they would have given input during the couple days I was posting versions of the map and discussing it with Numahr :(

As far as a pic of the starting locs is concerned, I posted it awhile ago. Here it is! (http://i.imgur.com/IrvsP.png)

[Soyweiser]

I'm not complaining. Was just a remark, just like a turn 2 barbarian attack, you take what you can get. And now I know what I can blame after I lose :).

And if somebody has a great cap position it is that much easier to gather up other players to attack him right? ;).

And the work you do is great. I doubt I would have the patience to set up and admin this many games.

[Echodyne]

No complaints, I was just curious/confused about the VPs. And I wasn't sure if the previous pics matched the final decision for locations, since it was an ongoing process.

[bbz]

I want to wish good luck to everyone and enjoy the game!:)

[NaivePhilosopher]

I'd like to echo the good luck comment; hopefully everyone has a better, less crippling start than in LowSelfesteem.

[SirMu]

Yes, good luck.

[Ragabash]

Good huntin'!

+ I'm having fun already, nice names : ) though I don't think Bandar Log has a blood fountain...

[Admiral_Aorta]

Bandar Log does have access to the blood fountain, although that name might be more appropriate for LA Ulm.

[Numahr]

Is it possible to activate email notification when new turns are sent?

[bbz]

I dont know about that but there is a site where you can check up on the progress of the game that Gandalf Parker provided us with at http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/privategames.cgi
just find the name of the game and you will see if there are still people to submit their turns.

[Numahr]

Today I cannot connect to the server for some reason, although I have a working internet connection. Do others experience the same thing?

[bbz]

yep server must be down. I did connect to it 2 hrs ago

[iRFNA]

For the other 3 people sharing a continent with me, I have a proposal you can't refuse
http://i.imgur.com/vjF1V.png

[bbz]

lol dont touch my continent!!:)

[SirMu]

iRFNA: It just gets more hilarious each time I look at it.

Edit: Bad news everyone; Love has died.

[Mauxe]

That is absolutely hilarious!! Thanks :)
(also...I'm in..)

[Ragabash]

Oh, you soft-skinned humans, do have some oni in you, we feel proud of your devotion to war!

[SirMu]

Is the server down for anyone else?

[SirMu]

Okay, the server is hosting in 18 hours and I still can't connect. Whenever I try it asks me what nation I want to play, like usual, I hit LA Ermor and it goes to the loading screen with the stars, which runs for a few seconds before stopping; it never moves past this and I can't download my turn.

[iRFNA]

Does it say "waiting for game info" while doing that? If so, that's odd, cause I don't have that problem and it usually affects everyone when it happens.

What do you mean, "stopping"?

[iRFNA]

Gandalf says to try deleting your seaofinnocence folder cause it may be caused by a partial download. This should make it attempt to redownload everything and hopefully fix the problem.

[SirMu]

I don't even have a seaofinnocence folder. I was playing on a different computer when this game started and just transferred to this one, which is the one I play most of my games from. And it's having problem. By stopping, I mean freezing, and no, it doesn't say waiting for game info.

And apparently this isn't the only game where this is happening to me! It is happening in the other Gandalf's server game I am in.

Edit for clarification on the above statement: I have a folder for the other game I'm in.

[Ragabash]

Maybe you should fake a folder? Just guessing anyhow.

[SirMu]

Huh, it's suddenly working now, despite me having not done anything special. Weird.

[iRFNA]

I knew sacrificing that kitten would work!

[Ragabash]

XD

Stephen Lynch - Kitten, youtube it, if you don't know the song ;)

[Soyweiser]

For the other 3 people sharing a continent with me, I have a proposal you can't refuse
http://i.imgur.com/vjF1V.png

You drew something over MY continent! Prepare to die. You bad Van Gogh imitator!

[SirMu]

Can't we all just get along?

[Soyweiser]

WTF, I'm next to AA again? Damnit...

[SirMu]

Having problems again. Is there some sort of catch-all troubelshooting thread for Gandalf's server? I think it's related to my location's internet connection, rather than the server or my computer.

[iRFNA]

Not that I know of.. Are you behind a firewall?

[SirMu]

Not one on my computer; I'm not sure about the connection.

[Admiral_Aorta]

WTF, I'm next to AA again? Damnit...
Don't worry, I'm not planning on attacking without a plan this time. :)

[iRFNA]

Here's a plan: harpoon his monkeys like the animals they are

And shoot them with slime and terror. Don't even fight them! Just trap them on the ground in icky ooze and say "ooga booga booga"

[Admiral_Aorta]

Remember to take your turn EA Ermor!

[Echodyne]

Done!

[iRFNA]

Server is having that hang on login again, emailing gandalf. Here's a crosspost from my other thread on the possible cause:

"I still think its caused by someone NOT using the Quit button on dominions to disconnect properly."

For anyone in windowed mode, this may be the cause!

[Echodyne]

Occasionally my turn will not upload properly and the program crashes. When this happens I just wait a few minutes and try again and it is usually fine. Could this be it?

[iRFNA]

You mean when it freezes on "waiting for game info"?

[Echodyne]

No. Next time it happens I will copy the error message.

[iRFNA]

Something like "nagot gich fel" or whatever? I think that's a generic error message, if it is. That is odd, though, no one else has had that problem in any of my games thus far.

[Echodyne]

The heading is in fact "Nagot gich fel!" but the content is something more specific. I suspect it has to do with my persistently spotty internet connection and dropped packets.

[iRFNA]

Well, I doubt you're to blame for this, since it is a problem that has plagued my games for some reason. Gandalf thinks it is either improper disconnections or my use of llama banners and/or single age.

Or it's Admiral_Aorta. That's my theory. Why? Just look at those beady little eyes and tell me he isn't to blame.

[Soyweiser]

I run windowed, and always close with end turn. That should not be a problem right?

[iRFNA]

I think you're supposed to hit exit first and fully disconnect from the server before closing. It's gandalf's primary suspicion that this is the cause. Don't feel bad, cause I've been running windowed and did it in the past, but stopped in the last few weeks cause I wasn't sure if it was the cause.

There's no guarantees that this is really the problem, but who knows.

[Admiral_Aorta]

My eyes are really not that beady at all.

[iRFNA]

And who's fault is that, hmm? That's right, YOURS! I rest my case.

[SirMu]

Still can't connect. Can I get a 48 hour extension? Assuming this is a problem on my end and not with the server, I should have access to a computer that can connect soon.

[iRFNA]

e-mailed gandalf to reset the timer

[SirMu]

Turn sent in!

[Numahr]

My Nation has staled last turn. Very annoying. I had come several times to the servor to make sure everything was OK during the long wait for LA Ermor, and it was constantly saying "turn uploaded". As a matter of fact, none of my orders were processed.

Is it normal? What should we do to avoid this from happening again???

I think I will never play a direct connect game again

[NaivePhilosopher]

I had one similar experience in the last game I played in, as did a few other people. It was a one-time thing that, as of yet, hasn't occurred again.

[iRFNA]

It really sucks and I'm not sure what the cause is. It happened early on to some people in NewbsWithLowSelfEsteem, but it never happened in NewbsGoneWild.

[Ragabash]

Well, I guess the games rollin', diplomacy kicks in, arrangements being made and treaties signed. I have a good diplomatical tool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOqtnU2faTc) for your future debates.

[Admiral_Aorta]

Caelum and EA Ermor better hurry, there's only 6 hours left...

[SirMu]

Okay, being as how my 'bad' connection is my main connection, I'm going to need a favor if I'm going to continue playing: I need someone who can send me the turn file through email every turn, and then upload my 2h file for me. The preferred candidate will be a trustworthy player in this game who checks their email reasonably often and enjoys long walks on the beach.

Please and thank you.

[Mauxe]

:(
I made a mistake on my timing. I have been traveling for a couple days but I thought I was good until this morning.
My bad.
I took my next turn.

[NaivePhilosopher]

SirMu, I'd be willing to do it, but I vaguely recall reading something about antipiracy protections for multiplayer. Does anyone know if AP would be a problem if the same machine/copy of dominions sent in two different turns?

[iRFNA]

It's gotta be a firewall causing this. I doubt it's because (if?) you're behind a NAT, since I am and nothing is going awry. Are you positive you don't have any firewalls running on your computer, or the windows firewall service?

[SirMu]

It's gotta be a firewall causing this. I doubt it's because (if?) you're behind a NAT, since I am and nothing is going awry. Are you positive you don't have any firewalls running on your computer, or the windows firewall service?

Oh hey, you're right. How about that.

...

:p

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Yay for solutions!

[iRFNA]

I can't count the times windows firewall has caused me unwarranted grief.

[Admiral_Aorta]

I just leave it turned off and rely on the network firewall. Saves a lot of trouble. Also, did Echodyne end up taking his last turn or did he stale?

[NaivePhilosopher]

Given that his is the last turn out again, I'm going to wager that he staled. Here's hoping everything's all right on that end.

Incidentally, good call iRFNA. Hurray for solutions indeed.

[Quell]

EA Ermor didn't stale. I received an in game message from him this turn.

[Admiral_Aorta]

Huh, I guess he's just cutting it fine then.

[Echodyne]

Cutting it fine indeed. I voted 48 hour turn cycles for a reason: I am frequently extremely busy. You need not worry about me staling though, I am committed.

[iRFNA]

You know what is unfortunate? When bogus and friends decides to liberate a province that was going to have your first finished fort that very turn.

On the bright side, denethor can now acquire the precious! Of course, it should be kept hidden, hidden dark and deep. Not used, I say, unless at the uttermost end of need.

[NaivePhilosopher]

Careful, Denethor. That way lies madness.

[Admiral_Aorta]

I seem to recall Bogus sieging a fort that belonged to Man in NewbsGoneWild as well. Maybe they just like medieval England?

[lwarmonger]

Wow... Soyweiser, you got very lucky. My heavy cavalry is very good, I am actually quite astonished that you didn't lose that "accidental independents" battle (for all of those not fortunate enough to witness, my initial charge of Ulmish knights almost wiped out MA Bandar Log's tiger riders without loss, but then a lucky smite before they routed killed my leader and caused my expansion force to rout).

[Numahr]

Sorry to have you wait, I was sent to a duty trip to remote areas and just made it back in time.

[Soyweiser]

I think I just crashed the server I pushed end turn and nothing happened (got a blank screen). And now I cannot login anymore. Sorry about that.

[Echodyne]

Sorry if I staled, everyone. I logged in around 3:30 am last night, recruited some stuff, moved some other stuff, and promptly fell asleep in my (very comfortable) chair. Woke up in a panic 5 hours later and groggily hit "end turn". Not sure if it caused any problems. Considering some changes in my own time management.

[SirMu]

Can I get an extension? Having trouble connecting.

[iRFNA]

Doh, didn't see this until now! Hopefully gandalf sees my email in the next hour...

Out of curiousity, what is your internet setup? Maybe we can figure out where to look for the culprit for your connection woes

[SirMu]

Have no idea. It's a university connection.

[Admiral_Aorta]

Hey, I'm going to be going on a week long ecology field trip tomorrow and I won't be able to play my turns. Can I get a hold on the timer? I hope it's not too long for everyone to wait.

[bbz]

I'm personally fine with it.

[Thanatus del Dragos]

Thats fine with me, I'm in a lot of games anyway. So a little wait on one just gives me more energy to put into those for now.

[iRFNA]

Alright, I emailed gandalf to get the timer taken off until then!

[Admiral_Aorta]

Okay, thanks.

[iRFNA]

You can still play your turn, SirMu, and advance the game. It'll at least give us something to do during this week!

[Admiral_Aorta]

I'm back from my trip, so you can put the timer back on now. :)

[iRFNA]

Ok, I was hoping everyone would have their turns in by now, then I would have restarted the timer. But I'm tired of waiting, so the timer is going up to 48 hours again. Let's brush off the dust and get this rolling once more!

[iRFNA]

The next turn is up!

[iRFNA]

I had the misfortune of getting a mystery stale last turn, oh well. In other news: 2 hours left, mauxe!

[iRFNA]

Boromir has contracted a fatal disease?? Noooooooooooooo

Delivered by a blow from the dark god of ermor himself! Then the mighty boromir slew that foolish god, but now.. now..

[SirMu]

And so Captain Hazak fell into the gate of death that he had so carefully guarded. A shame. But Love is still alive. Hope is still alive. Happiness is still alive. Friendship is still alive. So many great things of this world still walk, and they shall walk over to you and hold you in their embrace as you cry.

You can not escape them, Man. You are defined by them.

[iRFNA]

I sent my son forth, unthanked, unblessed, out into needless peril, and here he lies with poison in his veins.

[SirMu]

I should hope that no magical rings fall into Man's possession anytime soon.

[iRFNA]

Boromir currently carries the precious.

[NaivePhilosopher]

That can only end poorly

[lwarmonger]

So Man and Shinyama are currently crushing Ermor? How is that working out for you all?

[iRFNA]

More like ermor was eating me until they faced gondor's finest. Now for the turn of the tide

[lwarmonger]

Enjoy your victory. You get to be the proud owner of thousands of miles of worthless wasteland!

[Ragabash]

Unless, there's a lot of gems to get, especially the 15 d gem-a-turn machine in the Necropolis.

[lwarmonger]

True... I think generally by the time you win though it isn't usually worth the cost if you fight from start to finish (I can't speak for jumping in towards the end... gotta love cherry-picking).

[iRFNA]

Well, the alternative is boxing in ermor until they inevitably cast burden of time/utterdark, so...

[Numahr]

Short term:
When your neighboring provinces loose 50% of their population in a few turns in spite of you having built 4 temples to resist Ermor's Death Dominion, what do you do next?

Long term:
IRFNA put it right.

The rest is secondary...

[lwarmonger]

I suppose. All of that being said, I'm glad it is not my problem. Good luck gents!

[iRFNA]

4 hours, echodyne and soyweiser!

[iRFNA]

Damn you, bogus!

[Admiral_Aorta]

I think Bandar Log probably staled, but that's not surprising given his situation.

[Soyweiser]

****. I totally forgot to do my turn. Sorry... I try to fight till the end even when it looks hopeless.

Damn, and I might also have accidentally crashed the server. I'm stuck at waiting for info.

[iRFNA]

It was doing that before, I emailed gandalf about it a bit ago.

[iRFNA]

3 hours, mauxe!

[lwarmonger]

The Monkeys live for another turn!

[Admiral_Aorta]

Unfortunately yes.

[Soyweiser]

:). And Fortuna's meddeling is bugged. Those 24+ buffed markata should have killed that bane.

[lwarmonger]

:). And Fortuna's meddeling is bugged. Those 24+ buffed markata should have killed that bane.

That is a good spell for making crappy troops halfway decent. Fortunately you don't have many crappy troops left!

[Admiral_Aorta]

Be careful, he's pretty good at doing a lot with crappy troops.

[lwarmonger]

Well, fortunately I have crappy mages to even that out.

[Soyweiser]

Well the markata should have killed that bane. But the fortuna spell does not give AN weapons.

[Admiral_Aorta]

So where did they get the astral weapons from then? Some of my troops had them too.

[Soyweiser]

fortuna's meddeling. It should have given my markata AN weapons. Sadly it didn't. The spell only gave luck and MR.

[iRFNA]

http://i.imgur.com/w3KSz.jpg
I do not think we should so lightly abandon the outer defenses. Defenses that Boromir long held intact. I will not yield the river and The Weald unfought. The Forest of Gila must be retaken.

[SirMu]

After some thinking, I have decided that I'm going to need a sub. Sadly, Subway doesn't appear to be open over the internet, so I'll leave it in all your capable hands to fulfill my request. It's been a fun game so far and it really gave me a taste for how the undead legions play. I hope you continue having fun with whoever takes my place. Thank you.

[lwarmonger]

fortuna's meddeling. It should have given my markata AN weapons. Sadly it didn't. The spell only gave luck and MR.

It said that it did, unless it actually didn't. I do know that looking on your monkeys on the battle report that it was showing up as your markata having AN weapons.

[Soyweiser]

Yeah, it says so, but 24+ AN weapons markata should have killed a single bane. (Each one gets higher chances to hit, and his 20 protection should have counted as 0 so each hit would have done at least 5 damage).

I was already worrying this was the case when I could not kill Ulms heavy cav with my tactic. But I assumed that was because they have high def and also get the meddeling buff.

Sadly, this was going to be my main battle trick. Just have hordes of cheap markata with luck an AN weapons. (high numbers of markata give high chances of hitting as iirc each additional attack on somebody gives -1 def). And AN weapons ensures any hit also does damage.

Sadly it didn't work out that way. And I did not have str of giants + weapons of sharpness researched. So I could try the same trick but with less effect. A well, should have tested better before the game :D

[iRFNA]

I think damage is modified by a drn even in the absence of armor. So the markatas should average 5 damage, but can do more or less.

[bbz]

you didn't count in their str attribute(or the weapon clubs in that case). they should do 8 on average.

[Soyweiser]

Well, I don't think they ever did more than 5 damage. So, unless I was very unlucky, it looks like it simply does not work.

Even with drn variance, 24 AN weapon markata should have destroyed that bane.

[bbz]

yea ofc. I found another problem with globals.

Yea if anyone can try it: cast maelstorm with a W6 mage and for 110 gems(that makes exactly 30 gems on top)
Then try to dispell it with S9 mage. just with normal dispell(but the 6 levels of astral should be equal to 30 gems.) so chances should be 50 50.in terms of dispelling the global but they don't seem to be in like that. it has been 20 turns since I set my mage to cast dispell automatically every turn. and he hasn't been able to take it down,,,

[Echodyne]

So real life is currently kicking my *** again. Despite my best efforts I cannot get to my main computer until much later tonight. I would like to request a 24 hour extension.

Also, I can keep putting in my best effort for now, but I suspect things like this will just keep happening. I feel I should, regretfully, bow out and request a sub. I will keep playing until someone is willing to take over, I just can't garantee I won't keep slowing everyone down.

[iRFNA]

Well, we're looking for a sub for ermor anyway, so you're not slowing anything down right now.

[iRFNA]

Finding a LA ermor sub is taking a while. How much longer are you guys willing to wait?

[bbz]

I'm fine with waiting a lot, I am more bothered of getting a good and competitive game rather than the time it requires to do that. a week maybe:)

[Admiral_Aorta]

Waiting's not too bad, and an AI ermor would be really annoying to fight.

[Soyweiser]

I also vote for wait.