Too many mages?

[JonBrave]

[Playing SP, vanilla, normal gem settings.]
There is no way I can produce nearly enough gems for the mages I can build.

I own the larger part of the map, and have fully site searched. Say I can produce 5+ mages per turn. I'd like to equip each one a tiny bit, and give them some gems to play with. (Not to mention whatever rituals I might wish to cast in a turn, and I can never afford Empowerment.) I have something like 25 nature & 25 death gem income. (And if, say, I decide each new mage should spend a couple turns forging himself some things, next turn I have yet more new mages arriving.)

Consequently, I tend to prefer building troops over mages, whereas I think you guys usually prioritize mages, I read about pumping them out each turn.

Am I missing something? Should I just be settling for pumping out base mages with no gems/items? If you have limited gems, would you prefer to send out a mage with 5 actual gems or with a 5-gem-forgery (I know that one will be a "depends", but is there any general pereference)?

[bbz]

Dont give you mages many gems at one time since in battle they tend to use more gems than it is actually required for casting spells, so that they can reduce the fatigue of the spell(buy gaining 1 magic level per gem used). So what you can do (to reduce the ammount of gems you spent with mages) is just give most of the gems you need to scouts and move them with your armies only giving to your mages the minimum ammount of gems they need to cast certain spell.
About what is better I havent got much of experience myself but I'd assume as you said depends on the situation. If you get them an item (winged shoes, crystal shield) that is always going to be useful. But remember that some spells might turn the tide of battle(earthquake, darkness, master enslave) so I think you need both, but gems beaing really important when used right.

[Executor]

Not sure what items or why you're forging them?
Mages rarely need any items besides the occasional booster or penetration item and such, no point in giving them anything else as most of the time it won't protect them.

As for gems, it's best to carry a scout with gems and place them on mages when needed, when you're facing a real battle and such, rather than to let the AI waste the gems pointlessly. Subsequently, I also hope you're scripting mages since the AI does a rather poor job.
Personally, I find it expensive, dangerous and wasteful to carry gems and items on all mages. I suppose it not that risky in SP but in a MP game you'd make those mages a big fat target for slaughter.

A far better investment would be to use the gems you're placing on mages to summon some thugs, a bane, bane lord, sleeper, and use the items you've forged for the mages on them instead. A 20 gem investment in a thug can do far greater damage than your troops.

[thejeff]

Most mages stay at home and research for most of the game. Or take on forging/blood hunting/ritual casting duties. Those get nothing but research boosters or boosters to help with whatever they're doing that turn.

Other than that, it depends on the nation and what you're trying to do with those mages. For most of the game, most mages go out to battle unequipped. Some will get boosters/communion or slave matrices/penetration gear if they need it for a particular purpose. Late game, if you're fielding lots of fragile mages (say for communions) you may want to give them defensive items to protect from turn 1 battlefield wide attacks or from ritual attacks.
Likewise most mages don't get gems to cast spells with and nobody gets them to play with. Gems are doled out for specific scripted uses. Backup gems are carried on scouts.

Obviously, mages you're using as thugs or SCs are a different category, but you're not likely to be producing as many of those.

[JonBrave]

All the posts are, as ever, useful --- thanks!

OK, it seems you guys are really pretty mean to your base mages :p. You just send 'em out naked! I feel sorry for those working for you, mine are better cared for. I like[d] forging & equipping, I guess I treated gems as though they grew on trees. I will now try to be less profligate, or maybe next game I might set the gem occurence higher.

[bbz]

Or If you just need more gems you can forge gem generating items like clam of pearls, blood stone and alike it is a bit slow to start forging them but at some point you could have 50+ gems income only based on them. This way you can have incredible ammount of gems to do what your heart desires.
Also use dwarven hammers to reduce the cost of the items and espesially if you are going to forge a lot of these.

[LDiCesare]

Gem generating items and rituals could help indeed.
25 D income means you should be able to cast Well of Misery in a few turns and it pays back in 4+ turns. Same for nature. Then blood hunting for blood stones and getting some water for clams (with hammers) could help.

[Doo]

Start a new game and select Special Site Frequency to 75. Thats the most practical answer you'll get ;)

Also cast the gem creating globals, Mother Oak coming to mind.

[JonBrave]

Interestingly, I don't have a single one of the spells or items mentioned. I am "doing" Death & Nature. I'm close to the end levels of research, I thought.

[bbz]

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page
That is dominions 3 wikipedia link, it has all of the vanilla spells,items and units information and other useful stuff in it. Just type the name of the spell and or item and you will see what level of magic and research do they require.

[JonBrave]

Oh dear, now I want to ask two completely separate things!

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page
That is dominions 3 wikipedia link, it has all of the vanilla spells,items and units information and other useful stuff in it. Just type the name of the spell and or item and you will see what level of magic and research do they require.

Thank you. When I had looked for "the Strategy Wiki" people seemed to talk about, I had only come across: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Dominions_3:_The_Awakening/Table_of_Contents
which is OK, but seemed to have a lot missing. I think your one is more "complete".

How do these two sites relate?


Now, as to my current situation. You guys advise Dwarven Hammers, for example. Looking in the Wiki, that requires a 3-Earth mage to forge. I am EA C'tis, with a Death & Nature Pretender. I have never met a mage who even has level 1 Earth. That would mean I would have to do 3 levels of Earth empowerment on someone to get there, right? I don't have any Earth income coz I can't even do any Earth searching, so that's a lot. Am I correct or missing something?

[Executor]

Well you say you have a lot of death gems? You could summon spectres, 20 death gems, they have random paths that involve earth. It's cheaper than empowering to first level and you get a nice little thug mage. The second empowerment costs 30 gems which is ok-ish. And once you have earth 2 you can forge earth boots to gain another earth level for forging the hammers.

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Spectral_Mage

Or if you're lucky maybe there's an indie earth mage somewhere in your provinces? Enchantress, crystal mage or someone?

[Soyweiser]

The sites relate that the strategy wiki was there first, but nobody checks it. And the strategy wiki dudes keep adding it to wikipedia. So that kinda sucks. They also do not allow a link to the dom3wiki. It sucks.

[bbz]

You are welcome.
On the other questions as Executor said Spectral Mage is your best bet at earth giving you 1/8 chance of getting earth 2(if you get lucky) then what you can do is summon troll king's court to get a troll with earth 3 and give him the boots for earth 4 without empowering.(also I advise you to send all the other trolls into battle as soon as possible (a.k.a suicide them) since their upkeep is huge).
There is a good guide written by sector24 on the topic about getting into the certain schools of magic at http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37423

[Soyweiser]

This guide, and some others have also been placed on the wiki. http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/User:Sector24/Magic_Path_booster_guide

[Amhazair]

Spectral Mage is your best bet at earth giving you 1/8 chance of getting earth 2(if you get lucky) Actually, it's 1/16 (2 randoms, each with 1/4 chance of being E) but otherwise, yeah, go for Spectral mages.

Another alternative if you have enough W gems and W/D mages (which should be feasable as C'tis, moreso if it's MA) would be Hidden in Snow. It's an expensive spell, and both the chances of getting mages as their magic are very random, but the accompanying undead troops are quite good too. (After going to the wicky for the exact numbers: You get ~75% (influenced by magic scale) of getting the first mage, and ~25% to get the second, so on average one mage, with a small chance of 0 or 2 mages, and each one has 50% of having 2E. (and 7/8 to have at least 1E, 1/8 to have 3E)

[bbz]

yea ofc. 1/4*1/4:D my bad

[Kref]

Be advised, JonBave, try to avoid reading nation guides (Baalz especially) and playing MP games for some more time. That would increase your happy days of young strategist...
As long as you are winning - why should you ask for answers, why not just to increase the game difficulty?
P.S. "too many mages" - is something you shouldn't expect to hear from dom 3 veteran ))