ANDalusian Sun: Lolomo wins after more than 2 years of gruelling competition!

[don_Pablo]

Me. :)

That was my second attempt to try SoAP-based strategy (Strands of Arcane Power).
Now I see that there's no future if your nation hasn't blood-sac.
I supposed that minimum requirements are:
- mages who could use good spells from Evo6-7
- infantry, able to expand early and without support
- income of astral gems

OK.
That was an interesting game.
GL all!

[WraithLord]

I'm taking care not to breach anonymity but isn't early SoAP coupled with strong dominion bound to anger your neighbors?

Anyway kudos for the courage to try something new :)

[Amhazair]

Yeah, was intresting to see it play out, and looking in from the outside it seemed to work at first, (with a quick increase in gem income after casting it, and your mages netherbolting Patala to death) before flatlining, I assume from not being able to expend your dominion into new territory. Heavy dominion is very expensive with regular rainbows too, so I assume you're right about the blood-sac being mandotory. (Never having thought about an early SoAP ploy before seeing you try it.)

Edit: In response to WL: Wouldn't playing a blood-saccing nation allow you to more or less control where you push your dominion and where not, thus keeping your dominion mostly confined to your own borders if you wanted to? (Particularly with middling base dominion.)

Edited again: Has Don_Pablo been completely elliminated, or just gone AI with his last remnants? (For accurate OP bookkeeping.)

[Dimaz]

One of the players has important RL duties during the next 2 weeks ;) so he asked me to remove the timer for this period. Unfortunately I don't know how to do it or if it's possible at all, so I just changed the hosting interval to 120h:
The hosting interval for ANDalusian_Sun has now been changed to 120 hours, and the deadline for the next hosting has been automatically postponed by 48 hours.
I'll change it back to 72h after 18th if there are no objections.

[Dimaz]

Well, now another player told me that he won't have any Internet access 18th Oct - 8th Nov, and taking into account he's in major war and doesn't have a good sub, he asked me to pause the game for this period. If you know someone willing to sub, please PM me, otherwise I'll pause the game after 18th.

[Dimaz]

Sub found.

[P3D]

http://i42.tinypic.com/207p0ck.jpg

[Dimaz]

Some players told me that Bogarus went AI. I don't know the reasons behind this. I think it's possible to try finding a sub and rolling back, but I'm not sure if it's the right course. Anyway, the initial Bogarus player was Calahan, subbed by Maerlande.

[WraithLord]

I blame no one but game wise this is soooo bad :(
I think a roll back + sub is the only sane alternative.

[LoloMo]

I vote for finding a sub and roll back too

[mockingbird]

I agree with WL and Lolomo.

[PriestyMan]

Maerlande has some major RL issues atm, try and forgive him. Also, Bogarus is one of those positions you need someone totally insane to sub for. honestly imo this game is irreversably damaged without maerlande or calahan at the helm of bogarus.if you continue to play, whoever wins will have (imo again) a very tainted win.

[WraithLord]

From what I know about Maerlande I get the impression that he's one of the top contributors to MP gaming, be it by subbing, helping newbs and organizing games etc. I know he wouldn't just ditch the game on a whim.

I'm truly sorry to hear that he has major RL issues and hope everything turns out ok for him.

As for this game - Bogarus turning AI is a complete disaster. I agree that the game should be one w/ Bogarus led by a vet player (b/c a newb in an all vets game may be worse than AI).

[Dimaz]

I think I found a sub. I'll make a rollback now. Please don't send anything before it hosts again (sub player will need some time to get accustomed). Please delete trn and 2h files in your save folder for this game. In this case everything will go smooth.

[Amhazair]

Damn, so Bogarus was playd by Calahan then. (Or maybe Maerlande allready by the time I was at war with them?) I was almost completely convinced I was tangling with Wraithlord again, the playstile seemed so familiar. (Of course, I had never before been in the same game with Calahan, and only once with Maerlande I think, so I had no sight on their playstile beforehand.)

From what I know about Maerlande I get the impression that he's one of the top contributors to MP gaming, be it by subbing, helping newbs and organizing games etc. I know he wouldn't just ditch the game on a whim.

I'm truly sorry to hear that he has major RL issues and hope everything turns out ok for him.
Yeap, that's the impression I had too, since comming back from being away. A belated thanks for subbing in for Maer, and hope things work out. (And that , there I say it, the holliday spirit will solve all problems like in the movies?)

Good thing you found a sub, how is the game going in the meantime, everyone still having fun? From looking at the graphs a few turns back I gathered the same suspects are still looking good & strong and it might be a very exiting finale? Though of course I can't see the evolution of the graphs on the llamaserver.

[LoloMo]

Definitely having fun! Although not being able to talk about it lessens it a bit :p

[Amhazair]

Yeah, that's the big downside of RAND-style games. :(

[Dimaz]

Bogarus sub says he doesn't want to continue playing as it's pointless. Should I try to find another one or ask him to turn AI?

[mockingbird]

If Bogarus goes AI I think it will seriously impact the balance of powers in the game. If the game is to continue, I think a sub should be found.

[Dimaz]

One of the player suggests that TC should be declared winner. I don't know what happens in the game at all, but if you agree or disagree please let me know.

[Dimaz]

Well, since there's at least one player who doesn't want to finish the game and he explained his reasons, and I have no sub ready for Bogarus, I think turning AI is the way to go.

[Dimaz]

Several players asked for delay, so long delay added.

[Dimaz]

Somebody asked who played Bogarus, well, it was Calahan according to my initial list, subbed by Maerlande, and subbed by Kuritza when Maer went AI.

[Dimaz]

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 72 hours. The game will now host at 06:08 GMT on Monday February 27th.

[Dimaz]

Mictlan player says:
"I am getting a wrist surgery, and would be one-handed for the following month. I'd rather finish the game right now, or I will have to go AI".
So, what should we do now?

[Dimaz]

One of the remaining players suggests finding a sub.

[Dimaz]

It looks like the strongest nations still want to fight. Maybe you know somebody willing to sub? Maybe somebody who has been defeated already? Unfortunately I don't have good subs now and we need someone experienced for this task.

[Dimaz]

Sub found. I added another 48h but then I saw that Mictlan's turn is already in from the previous player, so Ulm, you can send your turn already to finish this long pause.

[Dimaz]

Looks like we lost another Mictlan player. He staled last turn and was going to stale again, so I tried to contact him, but without success. Any ideas? Maybe someone knows another sub candidate? Please PM.

[Dimaz]

Mictlan submitted the turn so it looks less dramatic now.

[Dimaz]

It looks like Mictlan sub disappeared completely after 2 stales and I can't contact him. I don't know the game situation; if you think Mictlan still has something to show I'll look for another sub, otherwise I fear it's time to turn him AI as I'm not sure I'll be able to find someone. Please PM.

[Dimaz]

Sorry guys, I was busy yesterday and forgot to postpone the host. Also I received a message from someone who's willing to sub for Mictlan. I suggest rolling back to last turn if noone objects. Please PM.

[Dimaz]

I rolled back the game. Please don't send corrections to your turn. Please remove all files related to the turn you received before rollback to avoid serious problems later. After new Mictlan sub submits a turn I will host the game. I hope everything will go smooth.

[Dimaz]

I hosted the game. Please remove all your old game files before starting to work on this turn. I hope everything will go ok.

[Dimaz]

Tien Chi wasn't able to submit a turn due to some trouble with llamaserver and wants a rollback now because he's in a tight situation fighting 3-on-1 and every turn counts. As I understand last rollback went smoothly so probably we can do it again without technical difficulties, however if you strongly disagree we'll continue as it is. Please PM your opinion. If no one strongly objects I will rollback after 24 hours.

[Dimaz]

I made a rollback. Please don't send revised turns (only TC is allowed to send turn now). Please remove all files related to the last turn you received to avoid further problems. I apologise to all players for this inconvinience and hope everything will be back on track pretty soon. TC, please PM me when you submit the turn so I host a game.

[Dimaz]

OK, I hosted the game and you can continue now.

[Dimaz]

I'll be away on the next week, so we can either find temporary admin or I can postpone hosting by enough days and turn off quickhost before I leave to make pause until I return.

[Dimaz]

I came back, quickhost is on.

[Dimaz]

Mictlan player cannot make the turns anymore because he feels it's useless anyway - we need either another sub or turn Mictlan AI. Any opinions?

[Dimaz]

So far one player is for finding a sub and another is for turning AI. The issue is further complicated by the fact that I'll be on vacation for the next two weeks probably without Internet access and so won't be able to perform admin duties and the chances of finding a sub during remaining day are close to zero. Personally I think we should turn Mictlan AI, or I'll have to freeze the game for 2 weeks at least.

[Dimaz]

I postponed the hosting by 2 weeks. Please don't send your emaining turns during this time. I hope to solve Mictlan issue when I return.

[Dimaz]

Sub for Mictlan finally had been found, we can continue the game. I hope you still remember your plans :)

[Dimaz]

We have 2 stales this turn, both players were asking for extensiion but it was too close to hosting, unfortunately, so I missed the messages. Please try to do it at least 8 hours before hosting, otherwise I can miss them again. I don't think we should do rollbacks this time.

[Dimaz]

It seems nobody wants to sub Mictlan this time. Maybe it's time to finally turn him AI? Please PM your opinion.

[Dimaz]

I set Mictlan to AI. Ulm, you can send your turn.

[WraithLord]

Congratz :)

In 4 days the game will have his two years b-day.
I reckon this puts it as one of the longest running dom games ever. If not the longest.

[LoloMo]

Happy B-day! :)

[llamabeast]

Oh my goodness, this is still going?!

[Man with No Name]

Oh my goodness, this is still going?!
Bah, this game is still attending kindergarten! Still almost 200 turns to go before it becomes an adult.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40437
http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Mistletoe

[Dimaz]

Hi,

Tien Chi player contacted me with a message
I've reached the point where I don't think I can continue to play the ANDalusian Sun game. I have a major new work responsibility now, and as things stand I am getting steadily outplayed in my turns by Ulm because I don't have the time and will to micromanage my position.

Given that I am steadily losing ground to Ulm, I am prepared to concede the game.

Of course, if the other players wish to continue, I'm happy to let someone sub my position.
From my point, I'm OK with finishing the game. Rlyeh, Ulm, please PM me your position and we'll decide what to do.

[Dimaz]

Both Ulm and TC agree that Ulm is the likely winner and RLyeh suggests a tie. As Ulm and TC probably have better view of their position, I propose to finish the game and declare Ulm as the winner. If no objections, I'll do it in 2 days.

[Dimaz]

The game is finished. The winner is Ulm lead by Lolomo. Congratulations to the winner!
I don't have much time right now so maybe I'll put some more words later, here's the player list

mockingbird Tien Chi
WraithLord R'lyeh
Fantomen Atlantis - PriestyMan
Don_Pablo Utgard
P3D Mictlan - rejakor / CUnknown /Stagger Lee
Aethyr patala
Yandav Ctis
Amhazair Jomon (Broken Swords)
Lolomo Ulm
DrPraetorius Abysia
Baalz Arco -
Calahan Bogarus - Maerlande
Llamabeast Marignon
Please feel free to post your thoughts/comments etc. Finally you can do it :)

[Amhazair]

Oh my god. It's over or what?






I might have more to say later, but for now that's the overwhelming emotion. :smirk:

[LoloMo]

Yes it's finished after two years!

All the while, I had Wraithlord pegged as Tien Chi. The fight against Mockingbird was really tense for many many turns :)

This is a brief summary as far as I can remember, and may not be entirely accurate as some of it was 2 years ago!

When I designed Ulm, I went for late game advantage by choosing order, growth, productivity and luck scales. I chose an imprisoned moderate astral oracle. It was quite a risky and non conventional build for late Ulm, but I was hoping that the buffs from the lesser holy war mod would synergize with Ulm's low magic resistance. It didn't, although I might have forgotten a some fights against indies that were helped by divine armaments.

I had middle of the pack early expansion against indies. Sometime around turn 30, my first test arrived when Atlantis rushed Abysia, conquered their capital, and became my neighbor, and at that time arguably the leading nation. I knew I didn't have much time to act before Atlantis solidifies his power, so I attacked with the majority of my troops after spying that Atlantian troops stationed at the Abysian capital was manageable. I was successful, my rangers worked well against shieldless Atlantians, and I used communions and blood burst.

Around the same time, R'lyeh mounted an attack on Atlantis itself so I was able to consolidate my gains.

[LoloMo]

At this time, I still had no vamps, and for many turns after focused on empowering in blood and building up a vamp and blood hunting economy.

Tien chi and Mictlan quickly took the lead in income and gems, and this lead they would hold till the lategame.

I turned to churning out loads and loads of wolves from wolfherds to inflate my army score to make myself an undesirable target. I had the biggest army score from mid game to the end, and I think this allowed me to work on developing my blood economy unmolested. I was probably 40 turns behind Mictlan in terms of blood, and by the time I tried to summon them, all the blood SCs were already taken.

Tien Chi, Mictlan, and Bogarus were the most aggressive mid game, taking out nations left and righ. Tien Chi never relinquished his lead till the end and Micltan was consistently second. Ulm was somewhere third or fourth along with Bogarus.

Around turn 60 or so, I started feeling Mictlan's dominion push. I had to work extremely hard to counter this, and ended up making more than a hundred juggernauts. In late game, I was alchemizing most of my gems to make juggernauts just to maintain my dominion.

[LoloMo]

Around turn 80 onwards, Mictlan, Bogarus, and Tien Chi got into a brawl that would last the next 40 turns. During this extended period, Tien Chi got Arcane nexus, Gift of Health, and Misery up. However I took my time before attacking TC, as I had such a difficult time countering Mictlan's dominion, and didn't want to deal with a victorious Mictlan. Although Mictlan was loosing provinces, it didn't look like he was loosing his fighting capability.

At this time I started making plans to take out R'lyeh. Between Mictlan blood sac and my juggernauts, R'lyeh dominion was constantly in danger of being snuffed out. I used possession to make lots of sea troll commanders, and made lots of piercers for them. My plan was to march them over to R'lyeh capital along with juggernauts, and hopefully just take his last candles out. It was going to be a massive investment with high risk of failure, as R'lyeh had a massive mage army.

I didn't get to implement this plan, as Bogarus fell (became AI), and Mictlan was at this point suffering from low morale as he had been fighting TC for so long and was steadily losing ground. I turned around and attacked TC and Bogarus.

[LoloMo]

War with TC was a lot of prodding attacks and back and forth land grabbing. Both of us were hesitant to commit a significant amount of power into any single battle, as a loss would be catastrophic. I had the advantage of being able to make a fort in one turn with 3 red seconds, so I made full use of that, creeping steadily into TC lands, and moving juggernauts into my border forts. TC had lots and lots of SCs - Zmeys, Wendigo's, Tarts, Grendels.

I had terrible luck with SCs, so I stopped making them after I lost the first 5 to the silliest of things. I think one died to TC province defense. TC had super huge income and just piled on the PD everywhere.

I started making assassins using vamps, fiends. At first success was limited, and many attempts resulted in expensive assassins dying or retreating to their deaths. Breakthrough for me was when I realized that the vine whip didn't need to hit to entangle. Took a few tries to finally got a combo that worked reasonably well: vine whip, piercing or armor negating second weapon, berserker pelt, horned helmet, messenger boots, black heart, water bottle, and 30 blood slaves. I had a few infernal hell assassins also mixing things up. With this set up, I was able to check TC's raiding SCs. Speed boots was a good counter to my low hp vine whip assassins, but then you get hit by an infernal hell assassin instead.

[LoloMo]

Sometime during this period, someone cast armaggeddon. This was quite a blow to me, as a few decked out juggernaut summoners were killed, along with quite a few astral window casters too. This caused me to become paranoid that multiple armaggeddons are on the way, so I unequipped everyone and put stuff onto my sea troll commanders. The turns after really became micromanagement hell as I have to keep moving items back and forth between my sea trolls and other commanders.

This put a halt to juggernaut summonings until I was able to make stone boots for my casters. I also put up astral corruption so my casters also have to be able to contend with horrors.

Eventually, Mictlan gave up, as he was getting the brunt of TC attacks. I think TC hoped to get Mictlan capitals and win, as he needed only 3 more to win. TC capitals within my reach were fortified with thousands of troops. I was always afraid of TC astral 9 pretender coming in and enslaving my army, so I never commited more than 10 percent of my total power into any battle.

[LoloMo]

I was doing a lot of sneaking vamp armies around to make them as unpredictable as possible. I hoped to make the illusion that any seemingly empty fort could actually be holding a legion of vamps. I might have been successful with that.

The last few turns were very intense. TC made a strong push for the win, and at one point was only 1 or maybe 2 turns away from getting the necessary victory points. Luckily, R'lyeh saw this also and attacked one of the capitals, while I was able to teleport an army plus move a hidden vamp army to take by surprise a small sieging force on one of the victory points, and take another capital under siege by surprise the next turn.

Ok, sorry my my short summary that turned out to be very long!

Wraithlord, I salute you for hanging in there till the very end even if your nation had low chance of winning, and making it really difficult for any leader to get ahead.

Mockingbird, there were days that I thought of nothing but what to do in the game to eek out a small advantage against you. This has been an exciting though often tiring match!

Now I need a break! :)

[LoloMo]

Thank you Dimaz for being such a good Admin! I can't imagine two years of granting extension requests and looking for all those subs. Hope we didn't consume all your admining patience :-)

[mockingbird]

Thank you Dimaz for being such a good Admin! I can't imagine two years of granting extension requests and looking for all those subs. Hope we didn't consume all your admining patience :-)

Yes, thank you Dimaz! Your administration was very much appreciated and made it an extremely enjoyable game to the end.

Hopefully I will have time to post my thoughts on the game later.

[Amhazair]

Updated the OP to appropiately grant Lolomo the glory he richly deserves. :)

Thanks to Dimaz for seeing out the (inevitably quite boring) job he took on without being able to guess it would take such a huge portion of his life.

And also well done to Mockingbird, who I welcomed as a shiney newb in a previous game I organised not even a measly 3 years ago, and who can now, by evidence of this game, clearly hold his head high in the most august company.

(I would say something about the other final survivor, but an honorable 2nd/3rd place is the very least we expect from the masterful Wraithlord, so it's hardly worth mentioning, is it? :p)