Celebrities MA game ended: Numahr - Ermor wins!

[earcaraxe]

Hi!

this one is a no-diplo game again in six lands (again), middle ages, mainly standard settings. according to my plan, this will be quick, low-maintenace game, like an SP but instead of AIs the other 5 will human players.

mods: CBM 1.84
map: Six Lands
hosting: llamaserver, 24 hrs
victory: own 4 capitals or consensus.
HOF: 15
banned spells: burden of time, astral corruption
quickhost on and sometimes off.

and please dont use the known "exploits".

earcaraxe: Abysia
larz: Pythium
ghoul: Agartha
deadnature: Bandar Log
valerius: Pangaea
numahr: Ermor

[ghoul31]

Agartha

[Larz]

I'll take Pythium, please.

[Deadnature]

Bandar Log please,

[earcaraxe]

welcome everyone! im very glad to have u here, especially for the familiar faces, and the new ones too.

[Valerius]

My position has become sufficiently poor in my other game that turns are now quick enough that I can handle taking on another. :) Please sign me up for Pan. Haven't played them in quite a while.

[earcaraxe]

welcome valerius! finally we play together again :)

[Numahr]

OK why not? :) I am going to have some free time again
Let me try MA Ermor pls...

[earcaraxe]

welcome! game has been set up, rady to accept pretenders, im very excited!

[Numahr]

With my pretender sent, I think the party is complete :)

[Valerius]

I notice Deadnature's turn isn't in yet. We had a few days break so perhaps he thought it was already sent? Earcaraxe, if you see this in time can you postpone hosting?

[earcaraxe]

i will keep an eye on it.

[Deadnature]

Thanks for the notice Val, that's more or less exactly what happened :)

[Valerius]

It appears BL staled 3 out of the last 4 turns...

[Deadnature]

(I just posted this in another game that I staled harshly on)

Gents, (and ladies if applicable), two stales in a row in unnacceptable I know, I am processing my turns right now.

Someone close to me was hospitalized last Friday, she's ok, but I spent most of the weekend (+today) over there worried as hell. But like I said, what could have been a major injury turned out to be relatively minor

Technically I could have gotten to a computer and asked for a delay, but dom3 hasn't crossed my mind for the past several days. But still, that's noones fault here, so sorry you guys were left in the dark.

Two stales in a row is pretty harsh, esp on top of my earlier stales, but I've actually got more free time than usual starting this month, so I'm going to dedicate myself to my turns and see what I can pull off.

Thanks
Deadnature

[earcaraxe]

no problem deadnature (on my behalf). I'm glad u r back.

I'd like to stress that - contrary to the customs here on this forum - i dont add moral dimension to staling or dropping out of a game. I prefer playing with people who particiate because of the enjoyment. I dont consider playing along an obligation, starting a game doesnt equal an oath of playing thru any circumstances in my mind. my opinion in short: its just a game.

I'm aware that in your case it was about something else, but i wanted to use this opportunity to tell that above.

[Valerius]

I'm aware that in your case it was about something else, but i wanted to use this opportunity to tell that above.

So I guess that means you don't want my staling reports? :p

Anyway, glad your friend is ok Deadnature. Obviously in those kinds of situations Dominions is the last thing on one's mind.

[earcaraxe]

I do like ur stailng reports, and thanks for that! it made it possible to avoid BL staling once more (I extended the turn by about 12 hours more than i said it here when i saw BL's turn wasnt there yet)

[Deadnature]

(this is a semi-repost from the other game that I double-staled on)

Thanks guys...I appreciate the understanding. I just know that I've always hated it when peeps give up on dom3 games so I would hate to do that to others :)

Thanks Val, for keeping an eye out for me/us.

[earcaraxe]

hi!

i will be out of town until july 18, so i have postponed the game until then.

[Valerius]

Doh! I was just about to post to say I'm really enjoying this game (and the fast pace). :p

But I guess I'll be more productive this week with less Dominions to play. Enjoy your vacation!

[earcaraxe]

im back, let the dreams of bloodshed realize!

[Numahr]

I am on a trip today and I may miss the deadline, please grant a small +12 hours extension, it will be enough.

[earcaraxe]

gladly granted.

[earcaraxe]

since i am basicly out of the game and will soon go to vacation again, i have turned myself AI and passed the password to valerius. have a nice game.

[earcaraxe]

i am curious of what bandar's player thought.

He tried to rush me from turn 5. I thought it was a suicide attempt, I played ma abysia, not exactly prone to rushes (even with sloth 3), since it has a strong early game with powerful fire mages. And i think bandar's bless strategy isnt that unresistable anyway. (besides that ma aby is my most-played with nation and i have a couple MP victories with them already)

So instead of expanding and castling up and researching, we got into a war. I built my pretender for a long-term strategy, choosing sloth 3, but I managed to beat his first invasion and conquer all my lands back. At that time i hoped he will also think that he has nearly no chance of beating me quickly, and we can revert to peace, so i didnt attacked his provinces, as a gesture: i tried to signal him i want peace. It didnt happen, as he invaded again, and i had to comit my resources to fighting him off, which i managed again. As a result bandar lagged behind in expansion and in most of the graphs (except research), me being second-to-last. This perceived (and also very real) weakness got huge cross-hairs on our backs, and we both got attacked from behind by others and stood no chance against much more prepared, much bigger armies.

deadnature i will thank u if u share ur aspect of this. and why did u attack abysia of all ur neighbors? did u think it was the easiest prey (this might be true still)? it seemed to me that ur huge tiger-cavalry had the plan to go in one direction and quickly conquer the first neighbor they meet.

thanks for the game anyway, it was very intense, quite enjoyable, and the first time i was actually beaten in an MP game (and did not give up from a strong position).

may the gods of war bless ur weapons!

[Deadnature]

You're quite right that tussling with you was a big mistake, however, I think you mis-interpret my strategy:

I realized that abysia would be a big threat to me and was frankly worried that you would invade my lands sooner or later. So I tried to aggressively raid your territory. (My neighbors were also powerful, but I raided them too) But a rush? Nope, didn't even try to get next to your cap. These multiple "invasions" that you speak of were really just on the outskirts of your lands. When you "beat back" those invasions was mainly because of my stupidity; the first time I forgot that all your armies have mapmove2 in MA! But surely I had no intention of going toe-to-toe with your mage-support.

Losing a bunch of my tigers to your fireballs early hurt, but the real shame is my 5 stales, which is what I think crippled me, sorry for that everyone.

But I don't know how this caused your downfall, from what I saw of those battles with Agartha, another 20 mage turns wouldn't have made the difference. Sure, he might have picked another target based on the scales, but why? Abysia is a good rush-target for Agartha once early-game is over...

But then again, this is only my third no-diplo game, so maybe I don't understand the intricacies of communicating with one's armies and position yet.

Good show earcaraxe! Thanks for setting this game up and for the feedback.

[Larz]

I am going on vacation tomorrow (thru Tuesday) but am SUPPOSED to have internet access and am taking a laptop, so I should be able to do my turns. It would help me out, though, if the timer was temporarily increased to 48 hours in case I am too busy to do a turn one evening. Thanks.

[Valerius]

Sure, hosting interval has been changed to 48 hours. Have a good vacation. :)

Btw, we've got a nice pace going and earcaraxe just listed 24 hours as hosting interval but if things get too be too much (maybe during the next round of wars) we can consider permanently going to 48 hours at some point.

[earcaraxe]

thanks for the feedback, its much clearer now.

concerning your fair question about my chances versus agartha, i have thought about it lot: i think the difference would have been that had u not attacked, I wouldnt have recruited (that much) anathemant dragons, who r expensive, excellent battlemages and bad researchers, and wouldnt have spent that much gold on training those humanbred platoons. I would have had money to build castles, and researching power to quickly reach 'Opposition' to stop the statues. that surely would have slowed the invasion, i wonder if i had been able to stop it still.

I had no intention of attacking soon but it sure wasnt written on my forehead. :)

On to a slightly more general topic: based on my experience, early 1 on 1 wars versus an at least average opponent with a healthy empire(regardless of nation choice) nearly never worth it. (I would even say that its a useful principle for every multiplayer strategy game.) Maybe i just havent encountered efficient rushes yet.



You're quite right that tussling with you was a big mistake, however, I think you mis-interpret my strategy:

I realized that abysia would be a big threat to me and was frankly worried that you would invade my lands sooner or later. So I tried to aggressively raid your territory. (My neighbors were also powerful, but I raided them too) But a rush? Nope, didn't even try to get next to your cap. These multiple "invasions" that you speak of were really just on the outskirts of your lands. When you "beat back" those invasions was mainly because of my stupidity; the first time I forgot that all your armies have mapmove2 in MA! But surely I had no intention of going toe-to-toe with your mage-support.

Losing a bunch of my tigers to your fireballs early hurt, but the real shame is my 5 stales, which is what I think crippled me, sorry for that everyone.

But I don't know how this caused your downfall, from what I saw of those battles with Agartha, another 20 mage turns wouldn't have made the difference. Sure, he might have picked another target based on the scales, but why? Abysia is a good rush-target for Agartha once early-game is over...

But then again, this is only my third no-diplo game, so maybe I don't understand the intricacies of communicating with one's armies and position yet.

Good show earcaraxe! Thanks for setting this game up and for the feedback.

[Larz]

I am going on vacation tomorrow (thru Tuesday) but am SUPPOSED to have internet access and am taking a laptop, so I should be able to do my turns. It would help me out, though, if the timer was temporarily increased to 48 hours in case I am too busy to do a turn one evening. Thanks.

I am back from my vacation and should be able to send turns more frequently. So, if everyone wants to go back to 24 hours that's fine by me. Or, if people prefer to stay at 48 that's fine too.

[Valerius]

I'm also fine with either 24 or 48 hour hosting interval. I'm inclined to leave it at 48 because nobody is dragging their feet (as can sometimes be the case when the hosting interval is extended) and I think we'll want 48 hours once the next round of fights begin. But if everyone would like to go back to 24 let me know.

[Numahr]

To be honest I am fine with 48h.

[ghoul31]

Thats a whole lotta troops.

[Numahr]

Thats a whole lotta troops.

"Si vis pacem para bellum"

[ghoul31]

ok guys, Ermor is attacking me with 3,000 troops, I could use a little help.

Thanks

[Numahr]

Guys, is it not supposed to be a no-diplomacy game? If diplomacy is allowed, I should reply, try to find allies against this aggression etc. But then we will really break the rules of the game, and I like the uncertainty about each other's intentions created by the no-diplomacy, plus I committed to this game knowing that i don't have time to play the diplomacy game because of RL constraints.

So please let's not use diplomacy and let's make our decisions as if it was a "game against AI except that they are human-controlled", as advertised in the first post, with no communication aimed at influencing others' strategies...

PS: Ghoul, if we had diplomacy enabled, either we would have a NAP or you would have refused, either way you would not have been able to attack me by surprise. The no-diplo rule clearly gave you an advantage for staging your attack, and to catch me off-guard. If diplomacy was allowed, I too would have approached other players when I received your attack. So please don't violate the rule now.

Beside, since you have your message published and I can't delete it, I think I have to reply once before, hopefully, going back to the silence of a no-diplo game:

Agarthans, answer the question sincerely before unleashing such hate discourse: who is attacking whom and who is attacked? Should I just leave your ugly giants capture my lands without resistance? As if you did not know what assets I have and I would use when you unleashed your Giants on me: I have numbers, you have quality. So instead of whining of your own decisions, be brave and fight the war you started yourself with honor.

[Valerius]

Numahr is right. No diplo means no diplo - either private or public. Sorry about that, Numahr. Please, no more comments other than admin requests.

[Numahr]

Dear comrades,

I have troubles coming on the RL front for this week. I have already played the current turn; then I would request a delay until next Monday. Sorry for that and thanks in advance for your understanding...

Numahr

[Valerius]

Sure, no problem. I've postponed hosting by 6 days.

Also, it seems like everyone is still doing ok with 48 hour hosting (which is quite a nice pace for turn 54). But if anyone needs more time let me know.

[Numahr]

Could send my turn in.

[Deadnature]

I guess I could too...

[Deadnature]

sorry all... have to request a 24 hour extension because im moving to a new place

thanks

[Valerius]

No problem, hosting has been postponed.

[Numahr]

OK guys... I think I will now make the step to request we get +24h to play our turns. I made several scripting mistakes during the last few turns because I rushed my turns in, and I find it rather unfortunate. I hope it is OK for you. If not, please grant a +24h just this time.

[Valerius]

I think that's very reasonable at this stage of the game so I went ahead and changed the interval to 72 hours, which also added 24 hours to the current turn.

[Numahr]

An admin request:
please postpone hosting to the end of the world and remove quickhosting. When the problem is solved, then let us send good .2h files before return to normal.

I ask this because I updated my turn (important update) after the problem occurred, and I have got error messages from the server. So I am afraid the server will use my old, outdated 2h file. And anyway, maybe other players will want to send again the good .2h file to avoid bad surprises...

Thanks,

Numahr

[Deadnature]

that would be good, I just got some weird messages too, it seems that all this time the server has been out I had sent in the wrong turn number :(

[Deadnature]

ahh well, at least you know why I staled :)

[Numahr]

Did you? Because the server actually used my updated turn file...

[Valerius]

Numahr, I didn't see your post until after the game had hosted. I'm glad your revised turn was used (and it's been my experience that the server will used the latest turn you sent before hosting).

Deadnature, sounds like in your case since we were past the scheduled hosting time the server hosted before you could send in the correct turn.

I'll keep in mind extending the hosting interval and turning off quickhost as a precautionary measure in the future.

[Deadnature]

actually, I knew I had the wrong turn but there was no time for a turn-resend (I never got the new turn) due to server-funkiness. No worries though, painful, but not a game-changing stale for me :)

[Numahr]

I see that I am not the only evil one to be late; will we get an extension? Even a simple +12 hours would work great for me.

[Valerius]

Sure, no problem. I've added 24 hours to the clock.

[Numahr]

Thanks. Gosh, I realize these end game phases really require time if you want to do your best for those poor souls worshiping you...

[Valerius]

Yeah, endgame micromanagement is the one part of the game I really don't like. I'm quite willing to fight on for dozens of turns in a hopeless cause if the micro is low but late game micro pretty much just makes me want to concede, regardless of how I'm doing. And this map isn't even that bad with only 90 provinces. I don't think I could ever join another game on something like Cradle, much as I might like the map.

[Valerius]

Sorry for all the delays over the past few days. I had very little time for Dominions this past weekend and in this game especially turns take a lot of time. I finally managed to finish my turn and realized right after hosting that I forgot to do several things I had in mind last week. :rolleyes: In any case, I should now be back on track and finishing turns in the normal hosting interval.

[Numahr]

It would be nice to have the sunday to play this turn (+12 hour pls) ...

[ghoul31]

well i'm out. Its too bad everyone turtled and let ermor win.

[Numahr]

Council of the Gods

Hi!

A few turns ago I felt like victory by conquest of 4 capitals was close; but this turn proved me wrong and I feel like the way to this game's conclusion is still very long, either for me or for my contenders.

We could go on, but I think we had a lot of fun already and the turns become so MM-heavy that it brings down a bit of the fun involved. To say it directly, I would rather spend these many hours playing mid-game phases.

So I suggest giving up our monotheist ambitions and form a polytheist pantheon with the Pretenders of Ermor, Pangea and Pythium ascended to Godhood. We could divide the world and its plans on the following terms:
- Underworld plan for Ermor's Pretender, with dominion on everything after-life, including cavern and magma- related domains to take into account the conquests of Abysia and Agartha's capitals;
- Terrestrial plan for Pangea's Pretender, with dominion over nature, life forces, everything green and breathing;
- Arcane plan for Pythium's Pretender, with dominion over the sky, the stars and everything celestial - this is a hard sacrifice for Mors Nihil Est but that's OK.

Surely Bandar Log's Pretender deserves a prize for its ability to survive and defend its capitals that long. I suggest denying God status. But as long as they acknowledge the main godly trio, we could grant them a lone mystical mountain peak turned into a holy pilgrimage place for the Oracle, in the middle of a refuge for the few surviving monkey folks.

Pretenders of Pangea, Pythium and Bandar Log, what do you say? Do you wish to create this Council of the Gods?

[Deadnature]

Hey, I'll take what I can get, mystic mountain retreat sounds great :)

[Valerius]

Pangaea shares Ermor's dislike of the evil known as late game micro and is quite happy to end things. At this point I view my turns as a chore and this past turn I started thinking about looking for a sub as I can only see it getting worse (finished researching this past turn so might as well move those mages to the front and have to deal with them as well).

I think this game could still go to either Ermor, Pythium or Pan and I'm fine with a shared win but I'm also fine with declaring Ermor the winner. He has been at war basically the entire game and has 3 caps while the rest of us only have one.

Btw Numahr, somehow I missed your request for an additional 12 hours this past turn. Sorry about that. I did end up postponing hosting since I dreaded having to work on my turn but that was probably too late to to help you as you'd already sent in your turn thinking there wasn't going to be a postponement.

[Larz]

I don't mind ending this one either. I had a lot of fun, but made some huge mistakes in my war with Bandar Log and wasted dozen of turns trying to dislodge them from thier capital when I should have just sat on them on domkilled them. I could never get my war with Ermor going full scale since I kept thinking "this time I'll get those damn monkeys!".

I think Ermor would eventually win this, but I also think I could hold him off for a while (especially if Pangea stays off my back). I thought I did great last turn taking out about 1000 of the undead horde, but I barely made a dent in his unit graph...

The God of Pythium looks forward to some relaxation after this very taxing war.

Thanks guys for the game!

[Numahr]

This has been one of the most enjoyable games :-)

Not only because of being in a good position - but also being in constant war made every turn very exciting, and Ermor, which I play for the first time, is a very interesting nation, as in having a strong "personality".

Ghoul31, you've been a great opponent. When you attacked me from North to South with the armies conquerors of Abysia, I was under a shock. Took me some time to adjust... And the last great offensive with Arioch was great. Of course the end had some really depressive scenes, I don't know if others were witnesses: Golog's suicidal guerilla (from a lore perspective, how ironic that the one Oracle who spoke against the surface invasion should be almost the last witness of the fall of Agartha...). I don't think the others really "turtled" by the way: Pythium was swamped in his war against a heroic Bandar Log (of course letting the Oracle stop Pythium was a calculated strategy: no point conquering Bandar Log too early and creating for sure a 3rd front with Pythium... although I have to congratulate Bandar Log for the long resistance against the odds).

Pangea's strategy was interesting, and somehow can be labelled turtling but I would not say so, it was rather like a time bomb. The combination of insane economy, strong dominion and Vampire Lords makes it an enemy against which I could only imagine being on a defensive stance. My mage-priests were spending all their time preaching in most border fortresses at the end to repel the evil dominion spread, knowing that Pangea dominion would mean the end of a given province... especially since my own defenses relied to some extant on immortals also.

Bandar Log really played a strange game. It has been discussed before, but going for Abysia even before indy provinces were conquered seemed to me like it was an awkward strategy. And well, both Abysia and Bandar Log were the first "defeated" nations. I could penetrate deep into Bandari "sphere of influence" without even winning a major battle. But after this suicidal war, the desperate defense of the Oracle against Pythium's repeated sieges was really impressive...

Anyway I have taken some AAR-like notes during the game, I think I will edit them and release them soon on the forum, you will be able to revive this game from Ermor's perspective...

[Valerius]

Good game everyone and congrats to Numahr on the win. You definitely deserve it. Was there anyone you didn't fight with at some point?

I don't mind ending this one either. I had a lot of fun, but made some huge mistakes in my war with Bandar Log and wasted dozen of turns trying to dislodge them from thier capital when I should have just sat on them on domkilled them. I could never get my war with Ermor going full scale since I kept thinking "this time I'll get those damn monkeys!".

Lol. Yes, I have to say Deadnature did a fine job making a last stand (a very long last stand). That was one cap nobody was going to take easily.

I think Ermor would eventually win this, but I also think I could hold him off for a while (especially if Pangea stays off my back).

Very interesting that you say that because I was hoping you wouldn't attack me. Then again, what mattered in this game was VPs and it didn't make much sense for us to attack each other when Ermor had 3 and only needed one more for the win.

Funny note: when I turtle for too long I lose focus and when I finally went to war with Ermor I had forgotten that this was a VP game so I was playing as I would with normal victory conditions. A couple of turns ago I remembered that it was a VP game, which is why all of a suddden I became more aggressive (with GoNB up I was getting stronger each turn even without much gain in provinces) and I was very worried that I didn't have the tools in place to stop Ermor before he took Bandar's cap. Luckily Pythium attacked and weakened him.

Bandar Log really played a strange game. It has been discussed before, but going for Abysia even before indy provinces were conquered seemed to me like it was an awkward strategy. And well, both Abysia and Bandar Log were the first "defeated" nations.

I think this is a good point. Even more than in a normal game, early wars can serve to serve to weaken both participants enough to remove them from contention (unless one of them achieves a very quick victory).

Anyway I have taken some AAR-like notes during the game, I think I will edit them and release them soon on the forum, you will be able to revive this game from Ermor's perspective...

Yes, please do. You were fighting so long I'd be interested in the game from your point of view. I'll also put together a bit of AAR.

[Numahr]

Year 1 of the Ascension Wars

Origins

Ermor is the true heir of the earlier Ermor Empire, but it has been for ever marked by fool experiments in necromancy. The Death Cult, led by Thaumaturges, has taken control over the empire.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9676/celebritiesaar001.png

Mors Nihil Est, a great being of stellar rock taking the appearance of a wise Sphinx, has promised them to deliver them from the curse of Death: “Under my blessing, your injured bodies, going through Death as a second birth, shall become light and reunite with the Stars”.

At this point he can already demonstrate his Godly powers over sacred Shadow Vestals blessed by Thaumaturges: when stroke with a lethal blow, the stars twist their fates and give them, in practice, a second life. In addition to demonstrating Mors Nihil Est’s divine nature, this power will prove useful to conquer the known world, a condition for the true divine power of the new God to reach their full extent.

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/834/celebritiesaar002.png

Mors Nihil Est, “Death is Nothing”, holds tremendous Astral power (9) as well as impressive Earth power (5).

A being of such supreme power had, obviously, made the previous Pantakrator jealous. For this reason, the Sphinx is now inert, his spirit imprisoned in an astral plane far away from this world. His awakening is close, and he can affect the world indirectly through his bless on Shadow Vestals as well as his Dominion, until he finds he way back to his physical incarnation.
The Dominion of a Pretender God is the spiritual strength he exerts over the world of mortals. The dominion of Mors Nihil Est is exceptionally strong. The very strict daily rituals all his followers must respect create a society ruled by a severe sense of order, but somehow impacts negatively the production of goods. As a being of stellar nature, he can play with the fate within his dominion and he brings Luck to all his followers’ endeavors, as well as a slightly greater sense of the arcane dimension surrounding them.

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5480/celebritiesaar003.png

Later, when he awakens, Mors Nihil Est will be able to affect the world more directly, mostly by spell casting. In particular, his powers will allow him summoning Granite Cyclopes, creating Golems, forging Crystal magical items and casting a wide variety of powerful Astral spells. The most powerful of those would turn him into the Nexus of Arcane Power of the whole world. Such a powerful spell requires a long preparation and must be used with caution, as it can cause all competing Pretenders to ally in a desperate crusade against him. But it may grant him the key to true Godhood.

[Numahr]

[OK the previous post is just an experiment to post for the AAR. Now that it works, I will create a new thread for it.]

Fellow players, since we were forced to remain silent during the whole game, I invite you to come and comment the AAR while it unfolds! I will progress slowly but regularly, I have most updates ready.