Whoah theres a lot of micro management in this game

[Question]

Just started playing this game and theres surprisingly a lot of micro management. There are no hotkeys for some actions like transferring gems...so you have to spam mouse clicks. You can't set rally points, and worse you can't even give commanders orders to move to more than 1 turn's worth of provinces per turn...a feature that was present in strategy games released 20 years ago(Master of magic IIRC).

I get the impression people dont like using capital only troops for this reason. Its too slow and too much of a micromanagement hell to constantly move troops from the capital to the front lines.

AI in combat seems...extremely primitive. Set mages on "cast spells" and they will spam random level 0 spells...when they could be casting lightning bolts or more. And you can nnly queue like 5 spells, so after 5 spells your mages start casting really random stuff. And i cant find a way to move them up to support the melee guys either (i put them in the back, but when my melee guys charge, they just...stay there...and do nothing useful),

Also tried using iron dragons set to "attack rear most unit" to take out commanders and archers. Instead they would attack the closest unit (usually some charging cavalry) and get tied up there. Uh? That's completely the opposite of what i wanted you to do...

How exactly do you make decent armies? So far ive been mostly using melee guys in 3 large blocks, buffed by spells, because ive noticed that 50+ composite bows cant seem to kill much, and things like javelins and slings are horrible.

Side note : Site searching is god awful. Lets say i want to search 4 different sites in one province. I have to cast 4 different spells to do it, and theres no way to automate it...theres no way to even see which provinces have been searched while casting the spell (province select screen doesnt show any indicators it seems). Also some minor points like how the game doesnt automatically put researchers back on research after casting/forging.

And theres plenty of help text that doesnt tell you anything useful. Can't see the stats of a creature before you summon it for example (and you cant set mages to auto summon turn after turn, its a LOT of work if you want a summoned army).

Problems :

-Low level mages have no way to cast higher level spells? Do i just have to empower them(really expensive)?

-How do you invade under water provinces without natural water breathing? I saw a Rl'yeh city with 1500+ troops once...how the hell?

-How do you make commanders effective in melee combat? If i put them in the middle of a large block, they get stuck behind the mass of trops when it comes time to charge. And they never seem to kill much. Are there any AOE weapons other than the frost/fire brands?

-How do i make an effective god? I tried using a water 9, father of frost god, gave him a frost brand, black steel armor, some buffs...somewhat effective in combat, BUT died easily to the first real AI army encountered. Also i noticed that if i set him to cast quicken self, he would spam cold bolt instead...and if i set him to cast falling frost, he would cast quicken self instead...

-If you spam forts everywhere, do they reduce the resources in your capital or something?

-How do you heal afflictions? Or dismiss troops?

-For research, should i just spam researchers turn after turn?

[brxbrx]

To automate site searching, click on a commander casting the spell, press shift+m, choose a site searching spell, pick a site, and the next month the commander will choose a new site to search.

R'lyeh is an underwater nation, so it's normal that it has a lot of troops underwater (especially in the Early Age and Late Age: Early Age R'lyeh AI keeps building water only units [because that's all EA R'lyeh has]; Late age automatically generates troops in its dominion).
Invading water provinces without water units will require you to either have a unit capable of taking units underwater (like the Sea Troll King) or a magic item that lets you do so (Breathing Pills).

There are spells that empower mages during combat. Mostly conjuration. Phoenix Power, Summon Storm Power, and Summon Earth Power come to mind. Also, the crystal shield boosts magic paths in combat.

You cannot dismiss troops (though there is a mod that lets you do that, I think), and afflictions are usually permanent unless you have a healer unit (Arcoscephale, Gath, Hinnom, and Late Age Pythium have recruitable healers), the Gift of Health enchantment cast, the Chalice, or a unit with Immortality and recuperation.

[Colonial]

While most of what you say is pretty true, you also clearly are not aware of one extremely handy shortcut.

When you hover over a commander and press Ctrl+M it takes you to the casting menue, but you are there to choose a 'Monthly ritual'. this is a ritual your guy casts every month, so long as you have enough gems for him to begin casting the next ritual as soon as you finish this one. so a 1 cost ritual you need 2 gems one to cast this turn's and one to begin casting next turns.

This is useful for monthly summoning troops and for monthly casting site searchers. for the latter the AI chooses a new site every month, and is pretty good at it. it searches them in numerical order but skips capitals and skips partially searched sites until it is out of unsearched sites.

to know what a summoned unit is going to be or what a mercenary looks like you need the wiki: http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Main_Page

basically press the windows button, look it up on line, then change back to domIII. a bit annoying but better than summoning in the dark,


since I already have a long schpeal, I may as well answer your questions:

1. some magical items boost your skills in a magic path. http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/User:Sector24/Magic_Path_booster_guide

2. Its an absolute nightmare. Nature, Water and Air magic all have magic items that you can forge that allow you take different numbers of troops into the drink. you can also recruit water breathing indies. a lot of late game summons are amphibious. or dominion kill the under water guy.

3. Most commanders aren't effective in malee, and theres nothing you can do about it. the only way to make them useful at all is give them a magic item that gives them something to do, like a bow.

for those who are actually good fighters, you have a number of options: have them attack alone, put them in the front line, put them on a flank where no one will get in their way, or give them flying. I'm sure there are other strategies I'm not thinking of

4. This is a huge issue, that I'm not going to cover. loads of stuff on the wiki, on the forums and in the manual.

5. Every fort exerts a tax of resources from neighboring provinces, a percentage of their overall resources. It can't do this to another fort, though. so if you put a fort next to your capital, that one less provence that the capital is taxing the resources of. If you surround your capital with forts, it will only have the resources it can get from its own square, which is a small fraction of the resources it would have otherwise.

6. Healing is really hard but doable, you need to find a commander with the healing ability, of whom the easiest to get is her: http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Faerie_Court . Its impossible to dismiss troops.

7. Yes (with a few exceptions)

should have expected to get ninja'd, i took so long writing that

[Question]

To automate site searching, click on a commander casting the spell, press shift+m, choose a site searching spell, pick a site, and the next month the commander will choose a new site to search.

Thanks, that helps a lot. Will shift+m automate things like forging items or ritual spells too?

I had manuals of water breathing, but theres no way 25 units per commander could invade a 1500 troop city o.O.

[Gandalf Parker]

For automating items, and other things the game has no hotkey for, you need to use a 3rd party macro program. I like AutoHotKeys

An almost complete hotkey list is here.
http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Hotkey

[Squirrelloid]

Attacking Underwater nations:
The UW-Land conversion is really really poor in the base game. Try Burnsaber's UWGIM (UnderWater Gameplay Improvement Mod) or CBM 1.9x (think 1.92 is the latest, almost entirely incorporates UWGIM) for a better cross-sea level experience. FWIW, the experience is at least as bad, if not worse, in the other direction. UW powers tend to have a really hard time invading land and staying there.

That said, the following is how you should go about doing it:
(1) 1500 troops is mostly chaffe. Thugs and SCs can more than pull their weight, especially against chaff armies, and especially ones who naturally are amphibious.
(2) Some troop types are naturally amphibious. For most nations this is mostly summons. In addition to specifically amphibious troops, all undead are poor amphibians, and since you're not fielding them for their stellar stats, the stat hit isn't all that relevant.
(3) Astral magic is probably the best offensive school for underwater combat, followed by air (most lightning spells work) and water (for School of Sharks/Shark Attack). Most evocations simply don't work underwater.

How do i make an effective Super Combatant (SC)?
(1) Encumbrance is key. Thugs or SCs which build up fatigue are going to die in protracted battles. You absolutely must be fatigue-neutral (reinvigoration >= encumbrance). Remember buffing can cause a lot of fatigue. Remember if you Quicken Self you'll attack twice per turn *and* accumulate 2x the fatigue.
(2) Defenses: You absolutely must have pretty good MR (22 is a minimum for SCs, thugs can get by with less, but <18 is asking for it). You're also going to want to stack a high-parry shield, high protection, and some other defensive measures (like luck, elemental immunities, awe, etc...).
(3) Fear is amazing vs. chaff and pretty decent against anything that isn't immune. THE MANUAL IS WRONG ABOUT HOW FEAR WORKS. Fear *decreases* morale of enemies in an AoE around the fearful unit, so when you attack and deal damage to units, and thus provoke morale checks, the enemy is more likely to break. Since it does this *without limit*, a fearful opponent who doesn't die *will* rout any enemy not immune to fear. (Morale 30, 50, 99 are special numbers and immune to fear).

(4) Thugs are meant to be budget province takers, not army killers like SCs (although they can supplement armies well). Throw a good weapon and shield on some chasses and you can pretty reliably do this. Some chasses may require slightly more gem investment. Encumbrance can be less important (because the scope of engagements is more limited), although many thug chasses are undead and thus Enc 0. Moreso than SCs, a lot of thugs rely on being sacred and blessable to perform well as a thug because it reduces gear needs. (Which isn't to say there are no sacred SCs, but rather that SCs are a more gem-intensive investment and thus you aren't demanding the same sort of gem-efficiency out of them, so needing a bless to perform isn't as much of an issue).

That should help get you started with Thug and SC construction.

(SC pretenders come in two flavors: Early game and Mid game. An Early game SC pretender needs very little or (preferably) no gear to clear provinces, and can expand from turn 1. It will become less useful as time goes on because these chasses tend to not have full slots, and thus not be fully gearable. A mid-game SC pretender is typically also a bless chassis, and taken asleep or imprisoned. Its meant to run with full gear and kill enemy armies. This can last into endgame against the AI or bad players, but even midgame use against good players is risky and endgame use is suicide in MP - not something you'd want to risk your god on).

[Deathblob]

-How do you make commanders effective in melee combat? If i put them in the middle of a large block, they get stuck behind the mass of trops when it comes time to charge. And they never seem to kill much.

Try putting them in front of your block then.


I think a PD-oriented strategy might suit your playing personality better. If you reply on your PD more, you don't have to worry about ferrying commanders and troops so much.

Just make one big enormous army, and every time you take a province, buy 125PD. The AI can never take it back! (Warning: don't try this with monkey nations).

[DeadlyShoe]

Also tried using iron dragons set to "attack rear most unit" to take out commanders and archers. Instead they would attack the closest unit (usually some charging cavalry) and get tied up there. Uh? That's completely the opposite of what i wanted you to do...

How exactly do you make decent armies? So far ive been mostly using melee guys in 3 large blocks, buffed by spells, because ive noticed that 50+ composite bows cant seem to kill much, and things like javelins and slings are horrible.
there's alot of subtlety in it, it depends on your nation and magic research settings. And what you are fighting. 50+ composite bows wont do jack to Pythium legion troops, but they'll massacre swarm troops like Flagellants.

there can also be a lot of subtlety in what melee troops are best too, there are a lot of tradeoffs in terms of defence mechanisms and offensive power. Hastatus, for example, have good armor and a shield and their short swords do decent damage. But they have poor reach so they can get Repel'd by most other weapons, and the weight of their tower shield means they will rapidly fatigue in an extended battle.

You also have to weight in the use of magic - Javelins & bows are fantastic if you have destroyed enemy armor using spells... there are many possibilities.

[Doo]

Flaming Arrows (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Flaming_Arrows) if you can cast it helps bow (and other ranged units) units. Doesn't increase the chance to hit but causes more damage when hits occur.

The Well Behaved Wizard (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=377) mod might help turn those Hogwarts flunkies into mages Gandalf the Grey would be proud of. No more spamming Phantasmal Wolves equals "I'm not a conjurer of cheap tricks!" :)

Vs the AI research is not so much a race but a gentle drive though the forest on Sunday with Grandma. Perhaps thats an exaggeration but still its generally easy to pull ahead in research and get the good unique forged items or global spells. Vs humans I suspect its more cut-throat. In this case don't spam researchers at the cost of early expansion vs indies or getting the second fort up but then go for it.

[Question]

Can anyone explain why my iron dragons were attacking the closest enemy troops when they were set to "Attack rearmost units" then?

For pretenders, how should i pick magic? I gather that i should be choosing magic that complements the nation i picked, but how do you decide how many points you put into a path?

Are there any other mods you guys could recommend?

[Knai]

Can anyone explain why my iron dragons were attacking the closest enemy troops when they were set to "Attack rearmost units" then?

Two possibilities.
1) A morale check must be made to fly over enemies, and if it fails one drops in the middle somewhere. That said, iron dragons have a very high morale, so this is unlikely.
2) It specifically targets the rearmost squad, so if there was one large squad it could have just been hitting that squad in the front.

As for pretenders, go read the nation guides. There are several types of pretenders, and its very complex, so looking at existing compiled resources is probably the best option.

[Question]

Ive looked at some of the wiki articles and the threads here, but im still confused about some things.

My understanding is that going deep into a path of magic is mostly for the bless right? Which seems to work best with a nation that has recruit everywhere sacred troops, at least average priests (for divine blessing) and decent sacred troops. Also best taken dormant/imprisoned since you are mainly using them for the bless anyway.

Rainbow mages seem to be mostly there for vesatility, but i dont understand how this versatility works. Obviously your pretender can cast a wider variety of spells and help in site searching...but is that all?

Im still stuck on mage support for battles unfortunately. +1 path items only bring you so far, and they tend to be a little fragile to spam empowerment on.

One thing i noticed is that my mages in combat, especially my pretender, have a very high tedency to ignore my script and cast random stuff. E.G. I set prince of death to cast shadow blast (or whatever the AOE level 5 evocation spell is...). I even put him infront of my undead horde. Instead of casting though, he just spams animate dead/skeletons instead(what IS the difference between those two spells anyway? Help text is very vauge.)

Weapons - Besides the flame/frost brands, are there any other weapons that do AOE damage?

Also can anyone confirm that there are no bugs associated with the ermor arch bishop/innocentius healing abilities? I have 5 of them +innocentius in a province, set to heal for 30+ turns, and they have yet to heal a SINGLE affliction. For the record, how exactly do undead gain affliction anyway? They are...undead! They dont even have eyeballs, how are they affected by the loss of an eye or a chest wound?

Biggest annoyances now :

-Shift + m everytime i conquer a new province, for site searching spells

-Can't queue forging

-Cant queue researchers, and theres no way to make them default to research when built

-Can't figure out a way to use archers effectively. It seems way easier to just make 3 large block of troops and ZERG RUSH KEKEKE and not worry about friendly fire. I tried using a caelum stack of icyguards + blizzard warriors...even with wind guide, the archers never amounted to much kills while the icyblades destroyed anything they charged.

[Gandalf Parker]

Shift-m is to set up searching every month. You dont have to do it each time you take a province unless you are in a hurry to know about that one province. Hovering over a caster will tell you what province he is searching next so you can check

Notice that the AI tends to put archers to the flanks. Not straight behind his main army so they have to fire over their heads at enemy they cant see.

Also notice that AI tends to put cavalry on flanks. Often with "hold then attack" orders

[Groundworm]

Selecting magic paths on your pretender should be consequent to your overall goals for the game. For instance, if you have a nation with sacred troops that have a lot of health, taking a high nature bless will give them significant regeneration. Or, there might be a global enchantment that you know you want to cast because it will help your nation- (for instance, Gift of Nature's Bounty). You might want your pretender to start with nature 6, so that you only have to forge a +1 nature item for him to cast it. Rainbow pretenders operate on the same principle- they're not only great for site searching, but they can also cast a wide array of battlefield buffs, forge a large number of items (including excellent and useful cross-path items with high path requirements like the Chalice or the Gate Stone), or cast cross-path summons. All of these things might be possible with recruitable mages that are empowered or given path-boosting items, but will be more difficult.

As for mage support: decide what you want your mages to do, and construct them accordingly. Don't build a mage with items without having a plan for what you want them to cast. If you don't have national access to earth mages but you know you want to eventually be able to cast Army of Gold, then find a way to get an E2 mage, forge him Earth Boots and Armor of Earth, and send him with your army. Also, there are *many* path-boosting items, and you can give your mages a surprising boost to their magic power if you plan what items to give them beforehand.

I'm not entirely certain how it works, but there are algorithms the AI uses to determine that, in certain cases, your scripts will be ignored. I know that if you have mages scripted to cast spells that require a large number of gems but then encounter a small army that you can easily defeat, it will conserve your gems and cast less fatigue-intensive spells. Similarly, if you don't give your mages the required gems to cast high-fatigue spells, they obviously won't. This may be why your Prince of Death didn't cast Shadow Blast.

Animate Dead vs. Animate Skeletons- the former will give you Soulless (zombies), the latter will give you skeletons.

Undead can gain afflictions. They do have eyes. If you give a zombie a nasty chest wound, he'll have difficulties getting around just like a normal person, he just won't feel the pain. And undead cannot heal afflictions through the healing ability; I think the only way to heal undead is by using the Chalice or casting Gift of Health.

Archers alone are of limited use. They'll do significant damage to units with low protection. Units with high protection or with shields are rather archer-resistant. And then there's Arrow Fend to pretty much negate their effectiveness. But cast Wind Guide and Flaming Arrows on massed archers and watch your enemies drop. :)

Hope this helps.

[Knai]

My understanding is that going deep into a path of magic is mostly for the bless right? Which seems to work best with a nation that has recruit everywhere sacred troops, at least average priests (for divine blessing) and decent sacred troops. Also best taken dormant/imprisoned since you are mainly using them for the bless anyway.

Rainbow mages seem to be mostly there for vesatility, but i dont understand how this versatility works. Obviously your pretender can cast a wider variety of spells and help in site searching...but is that all?

Getting deeper in paths can also work when one is trying to get to specific items or spells. For instance, one might want S6 on their pretender for Wish access, or they might want W2N1 for several Clams of Pearls and Naiad access, or they might want D4 to get Bane Lords out quickly, and move to Wraith Lords easily. So on and so forth.

Research is a big aspect as well. An awake Rainbow Mage can easily add 20-30 research points per turn, from turn one. That has the potential to be huge - for instance, assume you are playing Sauromatia. A few turns in, and you have access to the Raise Skeleton and Raise Dead spells, which can provide a constant screen that is absolutely brutal against independent provinces with even marginal archer support. Getting this early can be useful for the initial expansion phase. Moreover, that initial manual site searching is far more useful than it sounds. A decent chance to find every site in a province with two turns expended (one getting there, one searching) and no gems used is a major advantage. Gem economies win games.

[brxbrx]

Your script will oft be ignored if the AI feels there is not a sufficient threat.

[Jiggymike]

Honestly a lot of learning in this game comes from experience, going through the wiki, and going through some of the strat threads on here. I remember being totally lost when I first started playing, to the point where I stopped for a couple of years before rediscovering how awesome this game is (mostly thanks to mods...personally I am a huge fan of the CBM mod and some of the ones that add new and powerful units, like Mytheology and Epic Heroes). I basically started a lot of SP games to see how different nations play and to test out some strategies; once I got bored or realized I could have played it better, I started a new game with a different nation. When I get a good one going, I play it out to mess around with late game summons and magic.

In reference to a couple of your questions:

-The "Attack Rearmost" command doesn't guarantee that you will attack the enemy's commander. In fact, I believe the game purposely made it quite difficult to attack commanders, as this would make enemy armies overly easy to route and kind of nullify the whole strategy aspect. Attack Archers usually works to specifically target archers whereas Attack Rearmost will cause you to attack at the flanks of one of the enemy's groups, though not always the one you want.

-I think part of the problem with scripting is the range on spells (I could be totally off base here but this is just what I feel like I've seen, most people on this forum have a far better understanding of the base mechanics behind the game than I do). If your mage is way in the back and you script him to cast a spell with a range of like 25 that can't reach the enemy, he'll just do something else and he won't go back to the spell he was supposed to cast previously. Either position your mage closer or start with self-buff spells or those with high range e.g. Frighten.

These were the two items that stood out from your post that I don't think anyone else answered yet. Some aspects of the game you'll just have to deal with because there isn't much you can do about the micromanagement. Personally I feel that CBM removes a little of the most tedious micromanagement from the game (like worrying about making zillions of gen gems), but overall it's the nature of the beast. Get involved in some newbie multiplayer games; having to wait for your turns will make you more patient and allow you to enjoy single player more, in my opinion (I used to get too obsessed with cranking out turns and miss out on a lot of opportunities). Hope this helps and that you enjoy the game because it can be a ton of fun if you can deal with it's more annoying aspects.

[Soyweiser]

Well there is some anecdotal evidence that there is a check. But it simply isn't a morale check. Nobody knows what it is. But assume that it is there.

[Knai]

-I think part of the problem with scripting is the range on spells (I could be totally off base here but this is just what I feel like I've seen, most people on this forum have a far better understanding of the base mechanics behind the game than I do). If your mage is way in the back and you script him to cast a spell with a range of like 25 that can't reach the enemy, he'll just do something else and he won't go back to the spell he was supposed to cast previously. Either position your mage closer or start with self-buff spells or those with high range e.g. Frighten.


Range is a lot of it, but when it comes to self buffs the AI stubbornly refuses to cast some. The best example of this is taking any unit with a complete resistance, casting a protection upgrade spell that reduces it, then trying to cast an elemental resistance spell to bring it back up - the last step rarely goes as planned. There is a lot of weirdness in the AI, but you do get used to it pretty quickly, even if it does retain the ability to throw the occasional surprise.

[shatner]

One thing i noticed is that my mages in combat, especially my pretender, have a very high tedency to ignore my script and cast random stuff. E.G. I set prince of death to cast shadow blast (or whatever the AOE level 5 evocation spell is...). I even put him infront of my undead horde. Instead of casting though, he just spams animate dead/skeletons instead(what IS the difference between those two spells anyway? Help text is very vauge.)

Shadow Blast (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Shadow_Blast) has a fatigue of 100, i.e. it requires the caster to spend one death gem from their personal stock to cast the spell. If the script tells the caster to cast something that has no valid targets (such as an anti-undead spell where there are no undead), something that has no targets in range (trying to cast bless from the back of the battle when all the sacreds are at the front), or requires gems that the caster doesn't have, the caster will then ignore the script.

Also, casters won't spend gems casting spells if they are fighting an enemy that is considered too weak. This is to keep giant armies from spending dozens of gems blasting 1PD into smithereens, but sometimes you will have cases where it causes results that are less than satisfactory.

[Knai]

Also, casters won't spend gems casting spells if they are fighting an enemy that is considered too weak. This is to keep giant armies from spending dozens of gems blasting 1PD into smithereens, but sometimes you will have cases where it causes results that are less than satisfactory.

Odd. I've found the opposite, gems will be burnt on stuff too minor to warrant them, and everything that actually does warrant them will see gem use. The AI being what it is, that tends to mean copious gem use even if the mages are outfitted to deal with something much more dangerous than whatever it is they're fighting.

[Gandalf Parker]

Impressions can be misleading. Keeping specific counts tends toward the AI going off script for good reasons more than not. Of course, anytime we disagree with it that tends to stick in our memory for a long time. :)

However, you will find that many of the advanced players will take scouts along with any walking army that has mages. The scouts can stay hidden out of combat and hold things. Gems, blood slaves, equipment for breaking castles, etc etc. Its abit more micromangment but it is a way to handle the situation. Instead of having mages haul enough gems for a long war, only give them enough for the next fight. Even better if you have stealth flyers who can quickly replenish

[Knai]

Impressions can be misleading. Keeping specific counts tends toward the AI going off script for good reasons more than not. Of course, anytime we disagree with it that tends to stick in our memory for a long time. :)

However, you will find that many of the advanced players will take scouts along with any walking army that has mages. The scouts can stay hidden out of combat and hold things. Gems, blood slaves, equipment for breaking castles, etc etc. Its abit more micromangment but it is a way to handle the situation. Instead of having mages haul enough gems for a long war, only give them enough for the next fight. Even better if you have stealth flyers who can quickly replenish

The vast majority of deviation from script is caused by an inability to perform the actions required. There are, however, a few odd cases where the mage just does something wrong.

I'm well aware of this technique. It doesn't help when the next fight is something other than what you think it will be, and your mages decide to blow the gems they have on a relatively small advance force that arrived magically, and then they lack the gems for the major fight. Gem use AI is a hair too trigger happy, though its better that than the opposite.

[Squirrelloid]

Notice that the AI tends to put archers to the flanks. Not straight behind his main army so they have to fire over their heads at enemy they cant see.

Gandalf, how long have you been playing this game?

Units DO NOT block line of sight. Archers DO NOT check line of sight. Nothing in this game deals with line of sight. At all. This is wholly irrelevant, and YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

[Squirrelloid]

Also, casters won't spend gems casting spells if they are fighting an enemy that is considered too weak. This is to keep giant armies from spending dozens of gems blasting 1PD into smithereens, but sometimes you will have cases where it causes results that are less than satisfactory.

Odd. I've found the opposite, gems will be burnt on stuff too minor to warrant them, and everything that actually does warrant them will see gem use. The AI being what it is, that tends to mean copious gem use even if the mages are outfitted to deal with something much more dangerous than whatever it is they're fighting.

There's a relative army strength threshhold which the AI uses to determine if it will spend *any gems* whatsoever. Its a yes/no condition. If no, absolutely no gems will be spent.

If yes, it will waste gems in teh most gratuitous and bizarre manners possible. Ok, its not quite that bad, but it will freely burn gems no matter how minor the actual threat so long as there's enough enemy army strength for it to spend any gems at all. Since the relevant strength is quite a ways below equal, carrying too many gems can and often does equate to gratuitous gem wasting.

How the AI actually measures relative army strength is of course flawed, and there are times when any sane player would have wanted to spend gems that it simply doesn't.

[Question]

Is there any way to stop mages from eating gems? I want them to only use the gems they carry for casting scripted spells.

Actually im kind of surprise there hasnt been any AI improvement mods yet, given how poor the AI is and how important a role it plays. Also surprised at the lack of UI mods.

[Squirrelloid]

Is there any way to stop mages from eating gems? I want them to only use the gems they carry for casting scripted spells.

Only give them enough gems to cast scripted spells, plus any likely 'buff' gems they'd burn if you need multiple gem-eating spells from the same school. (If and when a mage will burn extra gems is somewhat predictable, but i don't have a formalized equation you could plug numbers into).


Actually im kind of surprise there hasnt been any AI improvement mods yet, given how poor the AI is and how important a role it plays. Also surprised at the lack of UI mods.

UI: Not easily modded. If its possible at all, it would require hacking the game process as its running and injecting stuff directly into the process. I know this has worked for some Diablo modding, but there's maybe one person in the dom3 community who i'm sure would be capable of such a thing, and he's not an active modder.

AI improvement: there was one attempt made. Again, outside of tweaking some spell mechanics which influence AI decisions (which is what the one attempt does), you'd need to hack the process as it ran.

Basically, the game doesn't have convenient hooks for modding most of this stuff, and since hacking the game is an extraordinary measure for something like a UI hack, no one has tried it.

[Question]

Well that kind of sucks. Hopefully the sequel will be a lot more moddable with less micro management, wasnt this game released 5 years ago though?

About generating maps...how do you generate a map with entirely no water at all?

[Squirrelloid]

Well that kind of sucks. Hopefully the sequel will be a lot more moddable with less micro management, wasnt this game released 5 years ago though?

About generating maps...how do you generate a map with entirely no water at all?

Draw a map. Define no provinces to be water.

Its actually not *that* hard. But you'll want to check out the modding documentation for map making.

Now, if you want a *random* map with no water, i can't help you there.

[Question]

I meant use the generate map option to generate a map with no water...apparently you cant select any parameters for generating a random map...

[Question]

Is there any way to save a script? I saw a quick load screen message about it, but i didnt get to read the full thing before it dissapeared. I dont see anything in the wiki's hotkey list...

What does the academy of war do?

Odd behaviour of the AI :

-Usually they sit with a massive stack of troops defending a fort, and refuse to attack me. Inevitably, my dominion overpowers theirs and they lose.

-They make no attempt to defend provinces they have taken. They just continue to attack and let me retake the undefended provinces.

-They constantly assault high PD provinces with insufficient troops, e.g. sending 40 units against a 30 PD province.

[Soyweiser]

'ctrl 1' to save a script '1' to place it. Works for all numbers.

Yeah the AI is stupid.

[Edi]

For random map stuff, check out SemiRandom by Ballbarian. It's a tool that allows you to set all the options that you would normally need to use command line switches to do. It then passes those settings to the Dom3 RMG as a command line, generating the kind of map you want.

[Gandalf Parker]

I meant use the generate map option to generate a map with no water...apparently you cant select any parameters for generating a random map...

There are quite a few options for random maps. Size, colors, amount of terrains, etc.
But since its a Linux game, more things are available on the command line than in the menus.

Here is the command switches (which are kindof hard to see in Windows)
http://www.dom3minions.com/docs/CommandLine.txt

And here is a long thread on how to use them in Windows for many things.
Changing Dom3 Defaults:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=44262

And here are some examples of using it with some of my favorite results.
http://www.dom3minions.com/RandomMaps/Keepers/

My site has many examples of randomly generated maps
http://www.dom3minions.com

There are also extensive commands for modifying how a map plays which can be added to a map after its created. Often to provide variety or to boost the AIs. If you find yourself doing something often (such as allying all of the AIs against you) you can setup a batch file to generate a map and then append the changes to it.

Here is a quicky list of those commands
http://www.dom3minions.com/docs/map_qref.txt
and a nations numbering list
http://www.dom3minions.com/docs/nations.txt
the full documentation on map editing can be found in a PDF file in your dominions3/doc directory

and yes I also highly recommend the SemiRand program which makes use of all of that in a nice menu-driven program. It can make new maps quite interesting

[Question]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=34826&highlight=semirandom

Im guessing this is the map generator? Thanks, i will check it out.

As for horror marking...what do i do about it? My pretender got horror marked, and everytime i call him back, its just an infinite cycle of getting assassinated by horrors over and over.

Its also ridiculous that i have afflictions on my pretender but cant heal them because i didnt take nature or have healing priests...afflictions are just ridiculously powerful. Seems its all hard coded too...i guess the cloesest thing i can do is give all priests some minor healing ability.

And how do i stop my commanders from getting assassinated by spells? I had a prett good caster hero that racked up lots of kills from thunderstrike spam...and he got killed by the nightmares spell.

[tratorix]

1. The only way to deal with horror marking is to not get horror marked in the first place. That and cursing are the best ways to deal with tough units, since they are pretty much crippled in the long run. Basically be really careful about what you use your pretender for. It's not ideal, but it's one of the realities of the game.

2. For future reference, a unit having HP regeneration, either from an item, bless or innate ability, lowers the chance of picking up afflictions by about 80% IIRC. Something that no combat pretender should ever be without.

3. I assume you're talking about vengence of the dead? That spell along with some other assassination spells can be resisted by Magic Resistance, some items like amulets of magic res. and starshine skullcaps can help. Having some independent commanders and scouts along with your army can also do wonders, as some of the spells target a random commander and can be soaked up by the guys you don't care about.

[Question]

Is there any way to reliably fight horrors then?

[rdonj]

There are a number of ways to fight horrors, but by far the easiest is to simply not fight them. If you have astral magic, you can script the caster to cast returning and as long as they have gems, they'll return themself to your capital every time a horror tries to attack them. If you want to actually kill the horror, I suggest piling on as much +defense gear as you can so it can't hit you. For example, 2x sword of swiftness, a cat charm, boots of quickness, and chainmail of displacement would be excellent horror-killing gear. It also can't hurt to set some fear-immune bodyguards.

[Question]

How much defence do you need for a horror to not reliable hit you? What happens if you banish a horror to the inferno?

[Deathblob]

...
As for horror marking...what do i do about it? My pretender got horror marked, and everytime i call him back, its just an infinite cycle of getting assassinated by horrors over and over.

Its also ridiculous that i have afflictions on my pretender ...

At this stage, is it still little horrors, like this?

http://dom3.servegame.com/sprites/units/0592.png http://dom3.servegame.com/sprites/units/0594.png

If it's these guys, and you still have an arm, then a charcoal shield should help the Horror burn itself up. If you still have two arms, then frost brand AoE cold damage will still hit the horror. If you don't have any eyeballs any more, it's going to be kind of dicey, because the horror will regen its HP thru life drain (since it'll pretty much always hit, no matter what you're wearing).

Or is it guys like this attacking you?

http://dom3.servegame.com/sprites/units/2194.png http://dom3.servegame.com/sprites/units/2756.png

If it's these guys, your god is doomed and you should probably not bother calling him back. Unless you like looking at the horrors. Does your god still have any magic paths? Your god does not need to be around for you to win!

[Question]

The very first horror that attacked was the hunter of heroes. I was expecting to win...i had a SC pretender god with a shadow brand, shield of valor, luck pendant, girdle of might, chain of displacement and the helm of champions. But my script bugged and instead of fighting in meleee, he kept casting thunder strike instead.

After i called him back, i got generic lesser horrors, then after a while i got the maker of ruins and died again.

Hes probably got 4 air and 4 astral at this point.

I dont understand why horror mark is permanent, dying really should be a clean slate.

[Deathblob]

If you had fought it in melee with that gear, you would have lost, so it doesn't matter if you blew the script.

Why is dying is not a clean slate? Because it's not permanent! If you go bat**** crazy in the mortal plane, you will still be insane when you are wandering around in the ether or wherever it is you go. And then you get called back and you are still crazy. There are no therapists in the ether! Same deal when your god's soul gets horror marked, those don't go away.

[Question]

Death is permanent for pretty much all but pretender gods though. As it is any lowly astral 1 mage can assassinate anyone and everything in the world, incuding gods, by casting horror mark. Its pretty silly.

What kind of items would i need to win a fight against doom horrors anyway?

Semi random program : What are the default values for width/height for small/medium/large maps?

[Deathblob]

I think unique summons are the same. They came back like they were when they died, pretty much.

One horror mark is not going to get you attacked anytime soon. Script returning like rdonj (I think) said. Or get the items someone already described for you (defense; attack or AoE attack; passive attack). The manual lists the items in the back.

If you have bad horror marks don't go scripting your god to cast Darkness or Fog Warriors in a battle, because he might follow that script (or just cast crappy spells) when a horror attacks prior to the battle.

You're not going to be able to reliably kill a Doom Horror, so don't even bother.

[Question]

How is the strength of the horror determined, with passage of time?

Also, i just started as Hinnom and i got a Rephalim hero...and hes eating my population? Uh...i have plenty of food available, why doesnt he eat that?

[Soyweiser]

If you want to know the stats of the horrors you could look them up here:http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Category:Horror

(Note that stats do not include the equipment/attack bonus and penalties).

Or in a battle, use shift-u to summon them in the battle. (This will not affect the real outcome of the battle).

[Edi]

The Rephaim eat population, it's one of their thematic traits. Put them in some province you don't really need a whole lot. Popeating has no relation whatsoever to supplies.

[Knai]

One horror mark is not going to get you attacked anytime soon. Script returning like rdonj (I think) said. Or get the items someone already described for you (defense; attack or AoE attack; passive attack). The manual lists the items in the back.

Actually, it seems that horrors will attack pretenders after relatively few horror marks. Which can mean doom horrors, I lost a pathless Wyrm to a handful of indie mages and about six horror marks, which really isn't that many. The Wyrm was good, but Umor was far better. I brought the Wyrm back, moved him one province, and Umor strikes again. I try one more time, Umor strikes again, and I realize that this is going nowhere and restructure my strategy.

[Soyweiser]

Knai, you never know how many horror marks you get from one horror mark attack iirc.

And Umor has horror mark attacks himself, each astral claw attack also horror marks. And trying to hit Umor also horror marks you. And as you need to kill Umor 3 times, and he has true ethereality. (ALL attacks have 75% chance of missing) one battle with Umor means you are now horribly horrormarked.

And perhaps 6 horror marks was just enough. You got unlucky. It sucks but happens.

(Even more when astral corruption is up. In bootcamp my pretender was attacked by a doom horror without him even having horror marks).

[Knai]

Knai, you never know how many horror marks you get from one horror mark attack iirc.

Watching the battle helps. Moreover, that was just one example, Umor seems to have a penchant for jumping pretender gods. I only cited that one because I remember it better, mostly because I actually ended up winning that game. As for Umor horror marking, that was what insured that coming back failed as miserably as it did - though comparatively few horror marks were gained, on account of being massacred quite quickly. Umor lives up to its name, at least in that case.

[Question]

Horrors cant be permanently killed?

[Soyweiser]

Knai, you never know how many horror marks you get from one horror mark attack iirc.

Watching the battle helps. Moreover, that was just one example, Umor seems to have a penchant for jumping pretender gods. I only cited that one because I remember it better, mostly because I actually ended up winning that game. As for Umor horror marking, that was what insured that coming back failed as miserably as it did - though comparatively few horror marks were gained, on account of being massacred quite quickly. Umor lives up to its name, at least in that case.

Well, each hit on him probably has a horror mark chance. (I assume a MR check is made, just like blood vengeance). The last form has this ability with the number 7 added to it. Which is probably a MR malus. So you get a mr check against 19 for the last form.

And yeah, if your pretender is marked, you always have a high chance of getting a horror attack. And the upgrade to doom horrors is likely. I think I saw the maker of ruins. Instakilled my poor druid lord pretender.

Pretenders are special cases sadly. (Or thankfully, as it depends on which side of the pretender you are ;) ).

[Soyweiser]

Horrors cant be permanently killed?

Of course they can. But the astral plane as an unlimited amount of doom horrors.

[Question]

With the same name?

[Soyweiser]

Yeah. So there is no way to permanently get rid of the horrors. (But if you want to change the mechanics, in a quick way, remove the call horror spells, the horror marking ones and mod the different horrors to have horrible stats.

[rdonj]

How much defence do you need for a horror to not reliable hit you? What happens if you banish a horror to the inferno?

A generic Horror has 18 attack skill and 4 attacks. This means you want to have more than 24 defense if at all possible. You also want to have luck, and to be able to kill the horror on the first round of attacks to minimize its chances of being able to hit you.

[Jiggymike]

Honestly Question, if horrors are ruining your game and you aren't having fun, why not just start another one? Especially if it's SP; it kind of sucks to just drop out of a MP game if you aren't on the verge of death but no one cares what you do in your SP games. I am currently playing 2 MP games (my first ever, which I must say are a lot more fun than SP with diplomacy and all) but I also like to have a SP game going just to mess around and try things out. The minute I stop having fun with it though (Pretender gets killed through some stupid event, the enemy shows up at my doorstep with an army of 750 troops in like turn 20), I just delete it and start a new one. They are good learning experiences for things like this, namely that horror marks, afflictions, and curses can really eff up even the most well designed and powerful creature, so it's best to just try and avoid them. At the same token, if you run into a game where the enemy is throwing some incredible SC at you, you now know there are ways to neutralize it somewhat.

Anyway there are a lot of quirks and such to Dominions 3, but if you like most of the basic mechanics, there is a lot of fun to be had. If you want to mess around with some extra-powerful units, try the AwesomeGods mod and the Epic Heroes mods; just tried them for the first time and loving them, though I don't know how imbalanced they might make a MP game.

[Jiggymike]

I should add that in my most complete SP game ever, I tried to use my 10D Prince of Death as a SC without really gearing him up very well. He ended up dying a bunch of times and I had to keep wasting time calling him back. Eventually, when he had four afflictions that made him a useless combatant, I threw him in a lab for research and summoning. He was basically able to create undead armies on his own as well as to cause destruction in enemy provinces in the late game with leprosy and Ghost Riders, when all I really thought he'd be doing was scaring enemies away as a combatant with fear. Just saying that a gimped Pretender CAN still be a lot of fun, maybe just not in the way you pictured.

[Question]

My main issue with it is that if you buy a combat pretender, you only get to use him for a limited time before afflictions and horror marks render him useless (mute/feeble mind even destroys his ability to research or summon).

Meanwhile if i pay for a 0 pt cost archmage or other equavelent, i can use him from the start for research, site searching and mage support in combat, and hes likely to be safe in the backrow.

One thing i noticed about spells like legion of steel and other AOE : 25 spells is that when my mage casts the spell, only a limited number of units in the squad seems to be getting buffed. Typically this is the center-back rows of the block...the front rows of the block dont seem to be getting the buff at all, even though the graphic effect is large enough to cover them. And if i script mages to cast the spell more than once, it still doesnt help. Why?

[Question]

I should also add : I have had the most success using rainbow archmges and the llike so far. Having 4 or 5 paths at level 4 is great for site searching and makes your pretender really versatile for casting and item crafting.

[Knai]

My main issue with it is that if you buy a combat pretender, you only get to use him for a limited time before afflictions and horror marks render him useless (mute/feeble mind even destroys his ability to research or summon).

Horror marks: Can be avoided, if careful.

Afflictions: This is why you want regeneration. One reason anyways, Regen is pretty nice in general.

Limited time: Ignoring the ways around this early, eventually your pretender will be outclassed by something. All it takes is that first Tartarian, and in some cases not even that. However, the provinces you had earlier mean your economy is growing faster, which provides an advantage throughout the game.

[Question]

How do you avoid horror marks then? I thought theres no way to resist it, other than hoping the AI marks the wrong unit.

Is there any way to deal with unit killing global enchantments if you do not have astral magic to dispell them? Things like call of the wild, the kindly ones, etc. My pretender managed to kill one of kindly ones by luck (spirit helmet lightning bolts), but ended up with 5 afflictions in the process.

[Soyweiser]

Page 87 of your manual tells you all you want to know.

[Knai]

How do you avoid horror marks then? I thought theres no way to resist it, other than hoping the AI marks the wrong unit.

Is there any way to deal with unit killing global enchantments if you do not have astral magic to dispell them? Things like call of the wild, the kindly ones, etc. My pretender managed to kill one of kindly ones by luck (spirit helmet lightning bolts), but ended up with 5 afflictions in the process.

Horror Mark Avoidance: Hit nations without astral magic with SC pretenders. You need astral 1 to horror mark, which means that several nations simply can't do it. Eventually, they may break into Astral magic from a position of none (which is a pain to do), but not early enough for your pretender to be the big thing you have going for you.

Globals: Overload them with one of your own. Admittedly, its a bit haphazard, but then, if you overload with Gift of Health in particular it can help your units survive longer.

[rdonj]

You can also try killing them, that will make them go away.

[Knai]

You can also try killing them, that will make them go away.

Killing who? If you mean whoever has the capacity to horror mark you, then yes, that does fix that problem, though you won't want to use stuff you don't want horror marked to do it. If you mean killing whatever you has that is horror marked, it doesn't work. Horror mark remains through death, and can't be removed.

[thejeff]

I think "killing them" was for globals.

Kill the caster, the global goes away. Often tricky without just destroying the nation.

[rdonj]

Yeah, I meant killing the global casters, or for example with the armada you dispel the global if you defeat it in combat.

[Knai]

I think "killing them" was for globals.

Kill the caster, the global goes away. Often tricky without just destroying the nation.

Depending on the global and the nation, you can sometimes fire off a bunch of remote attack spells and hope you get lucky. For instance, hitting every fortress with a bunch of Mind Hunts can go surprisingly far for a nation with no astral, particularly if you can heal anyone who gets feebleminded. If dealing with a human nation, Earth Attack can go surprisingly far. So on and so forth.

[earcaraxe]

Page 87 of your manual tells you all you want to know.

how do u know its the 87th page? its enormous! have you read it ALL?

[Fantomen]

Page 87 of your manual tells you all you want to know.

how do u know its the 87th page? its enormous! have you read it ALL?

He is the SOYWEISER.

Do not embark on the vain quest to understand those which is beyond your feeble reach, know your place.

[Soyweiser]

Come on people, a user named question asking constant questions that are in the manual? Looks a bit like a troll to me.

[Doo]

All this questioning does bring a question to mind, why can't I fit more than one Joton Herse in a square, yet I can fit 6 Holburgs in a square?

[Deathblob]

It's probably your monitor resolution. Try a different graphics mode!

[Doo]

Thanks!

[Doo]

I tried that but now the giants look overweight. This would be okay except their encumbrance is still the same, is there anyway I can mod their encumbrance so that they get puffed like overweight giants should?

[Soyweiser]

Doo, page 10 of the modding manual explains all!

[Doo]

Doo, page 10 of the modding manual explains all!

Thanks!

[Doo]

Doo, page 10 of the modding manual explains all!

Sry, do you mean page ten of the pdf or page ten of the modding manual, as they are different? In the manual the cover and contents page are not numbered but they are pages one and two in the pdf.

Sry for the confusion, I'm new to this ;)

[Doo]

Doo, page 10 of the modding manual explains all!

Sry, do you mean page ten of the pdf or page ten of the modding manual, as they are different? In the manual the cover and contents page are not numbered but they are pages one and two in the pdf.

Sry for the confusion, I'm new to this ;)

Don't worry, I found the answer on the wiki!

[Peter Ebbesen]

Page 87 of your manual tells you all you want to know.

how do u know its the 87th page? its enormous! have you read it ALL?
It is a safe bet that any accomplished MP player has read the entire manual, possibly skipping the spell and item appendices if he's a Dom 2 veteran and feeling really sure of himself.

...and that many have not merely read the entire manual, but memorized it, making them living encyclopaedias. I know I did. The manual contains lots of errors and omissions, but it is remains even now, years after the game's release, the best place to learn the fundamentals of the game mechanics.

Diplomacy and intrigue can only carry you so far when you are up against real opposition; to consistently do well you need to know how the game works.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually the wiki only lists something like 10 errors.
As far as omissions, that probably depends on the definition. Most of what was left out was done on purpose. But since there have been 5 years of updates and patches there is quite a few things out of date in the manual. Entire nations are not in the manual.

[Soyweiser]

Actually, the wiki lists a lot more. Sure only 15 are major issues. But the manual does contain a lot of errors or strange omissions. Saying it was done on purpose is a bit of an easy excuse now is it?

But please, check your facts Gandalf, the wiki contains a lot more than just 10. http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Manual_errata

And lets not forget the example strategies, which if used guarantee that you will not win the game ;).

[Loren]

If you had fought it in melee with that gear, you would have lost, so it doesn't matter if you blew the script.

Why is dying is not a clean slate? Because it's not permanent! If you go bat**** crazy in the mortal plane, you will still be insane when you are wandering around in the ether or wherever it is you go. And then you get called back and you are still crazy. There are no therapists in the ether! Same deal when your god's soul gets horror marked, those don't go away.

I do agree that dying shouldn't wipe out horror marks but I have my doubts as to whether pretenders should subject to things like horror marks or Ry'leh dominion.

[Doo]

If you had fought it in melee with that gear, you would have lost, so it doesn't matter if you blew the script.

Why is dying is not a clean slate? Because it's not permanent! If you go bat**** crazy in the mortal plane, you will still be insane when you are wandering around in the ether or wherever it is you go. And then you get called back and you are still crazy. There are no therapists in the ether! Same deal when your god's soul gets horror marked, those don't go away.

I do agree that dying shouldn't wipe out horror marks but I have my doubts as to whether pretenders should subject to things like horror marks or Ry'leh dominion.

I see the idea around the gameplay is that nothing can become unbeatable. If something becomes really tough, horror mark it and its no longer the long-term threat it was.

[sansanjuan]

I see the idea around the gameplay is that nothing can become unbeatable. If something becomes really tough, horror mark it and its no longer the long-term threat it was.

True..

Doubly so since those marks seem uncanny at focusing on the pretender/SC midst all the rabble.

-ssj

[Soyweiser]

They go for large size and high HP. With some creative summoning you can get decoys.

[Loren]

If you had fought it in melee with that gear, you would have lost, so it doesn't matter if you blew the script.

Why is dying is not a clean slate? Because it's not permanent! If you go bat**** crazy in the mortal plane, you will still be insane when you are wandering around in the ether or wherever it is you go. And then you get called back and you are still crazy. There are no therapists in the ether! Same deal when your god's soul gets horror marked, those don't go away.

I do agree that dying shouldn't wipe out horror marks but I have my doubts as to whether pretenders should subject to things like horror marks or Ry'leh dominion.

I see the idea around the gameplay is that nothing can become unbeatable. If something becomes really tough, horror mark it and its no longer the long-term threat it was.

The problem is that it seems wrong that pretenders are vulnerable to such things. I'm not saying they aren't vulnerable to damage, it's just the permanent stuff bothers me.

[Doo]

The problem is that it seems wrong that pretenders are vulnerable to such things. I'm not saying they aren't vulnerable to damage, it's just the permanent stuff bothers me.

I hated it at first too, it felt wrong in a computer game like this that I couldn't heal those afflictions, curses and horror marks that my lovely pretender, unique summons and heroes accumulated. They were my babies that I nursed up to 4 stars and kitted out with only the best equipment at the time. Now my thugs have base encumbrance of 10 and rainbow mage is feeble-minded.

Insert expletive here. And another expletive, and another!

Now I actually like it because it because imagination-wise it creates a richer story, the pathless pretender wrymm with so many afflictions all it can do is sit gasping for air, yet it is endlessly thrown back into battle by its believers and called back from death again and again. The living vegetable god who used to be the most powerful mage in the land, and will be again once it truly becomes the god (or the healers fix it or the nation gains access to nature ect.,).

Very annoying when it happens in the early game but thats life. Just be sure to do it to them first ;)

[Hrum]

Dominions3 seems to have a link back to classic greek storytelling in that there is a common element of tragedy to much of what happens. The fact that so much comedy also happens in many Dominions games only makes that case stronger.

Sometimes the tragedy and the comedy all come in one neat little package (losing the use of your best thug when he gets hero status and acquires Heroic Obesity! Amusing, and yet so tragic!).

None of your units are immune. And the stakes that your pretender is playing for simply increase the likelihood for an even greater tragedy in the end. Only one pretender is going to become the Pantokrator of [This World] - the rest are going to fall prey to all sorts of lesser fates along the way, including possibly being gobbled up by horrors.

Now, imagine the comedy (and tragedy?) of the pretender who becomes Pantokrator in spite of his insanely high level of horror marks. Imagine him being a weak little rainbow, who is killed on the first round every time he meets even a lesser horror - and yet his followers re-summon him time and time again.

"At last, all of these lesser religions have been wiped out! I rule this world!"

*Eater of Gods shows up*

"Not again!"

*dies*

The Prophet of The Great and Most Persistent Re-Appearing Rainbow sighs. Time to get the priesthood together for more god summoning. Again.

[Deadnature]

There's also a lovecraftian element here with the horrors:

They're not beings from our existence, they don't obey the laws that govern our dimension and thus they don't care what is horror-marked, just that it is. It's not clear where they come from...which is totally cool.

Another thing to remember is that none of the pretenders are true gods, they're just powerful beings that have attracted a nation of followers; perhaps the Pantokrator could remove horror-marks and curses....

[Loren]

The problem is that it seems wrong that pretenders are vulnerable to such things. I'm not saying they aren't vulnerable to damage, it's just the permanent stuff bothers me.

I hated it at first too, it felt wrong in a computer game like this that I couldn't heal those afflictions, curses and horror marks that my lovely pretender, unique summons and heroes accumulated. They were my babies that I nursed up to 4 stars and kitted out with only the best equipment at the time. Now my thugs have base encumbrance of 10 and rainbow mage is feeble-minded.

Insert expletive here. And another expletive, and another!

Now I actually like it because it because imagination-wise it creates a richer story, the pathless pretender wrymm with so many afflictions all it can do is sit gasping for air, yet it is endlessly thrown back into battle by its believers and called back from death again and again. The living vegetable god who used to be the most powerful mage in the land, and will be again once it truly becomes the god (or the healers fix it or the nation gains access to nature ect.,).

Very annoying when it happens in the early game but thats life. Just be sure to do it to them first ;)

I disagree--how can a living vegetable ascend to godhood??

I have no problem with the curses/horror marks/insanity in general, it's *ONLY* with the pretender that it feels wrong.

[Squirrelloid]

The problem is that it seems wrong that pretenders are vulnerable to such things. I'm not saying they aren't vulnerable to damage, it's just the permanent stuff bothers me.

I hated it at first too, it felt wrong in a computer game like this that I couldn't heal those afflictions, curses and horror marks that my lovely pretender, unique summons and heroes accumulated. They were my babies that I nursed up to 4 stars and kitted out with only the best equipment at the time. Now my thugs have base encumbrance of 10 and rainbow mage is feeble-minded.

Insert expletive here. And another expletive, and another!

Now I actually like it because it because imagination-wise it creates a richer story, the pathless pretender wrymm with so many afflictions all it can do is sit gasping for air, yet it is endlessly thrown back into battle by its believers and called back from death again and again. The living vegetable god who used to be the most powerful mage in the land, and will be again once it truly becomes the god (or the healers fix it or the nation gains access to nature ect.,).

Very annoying when it happens in the early game but thats life. Just be sure to do it to them first ;)

I disagree--how can a living vegetable ascend to godhood??

I have no problem with the curses/horror marks/insanity in general, it's *ONLY* with the pretender that it feels wrong.

The same way a wooden totem ascends to godhood? People believe, it is enough. (Well, and compel everyone else to believe).

[Deathblob]

I disagree--how can a living vegetable ascend to godhood??

I have no problem with the curses/horror marks/insanity in general, it's *ONLY* with the pretender that it feels wrong.

The same way a wooden totem ascends to godhood? People believe, it is enough. (Well, and compel everyone else to believe).

Don't forget the large underwater fungus. All praise the large underwater fungus, for it is God, and the ancient kelp is its prophet!

[Soyweiser]

Are you mocking the great one? You had best not done that Deathblob.

[scene11]

Try forging items which make your god ethereal and other such items.
btw i am new here

[Doo]

Try forging items which make your god ethereal and other such items.
btw i am new here

I tried that but I never inhaled.

Welcome to the forums.

[Gandalf Parker]

Godhood is not based on the actions of a unit. They are based on the worship of the populace.
That is how a big rock, or a giant fungus, or a fountain become something more. They are not worshiped because they are more. They are more because they are worshiped.

It is also why pretender-gods (in vanilla) cannot bless, or be blessed, or build temples to themselves. And why they are boosted within the area of their worship (dominion)

And if all other pretender-gods are wiped out so that this is the only thing being worshiped, it ascends to godhood. It does not choose to, its forced to.

[Doo]

Godhood is not based on the actions of a unit. They are based on the worship of the populace.
That is how a big rock, or a giant fungus, or a fountain become something more. They are not worshiped because they are more. They are more because they are worshiped.

It is also why pretender-gods (in vanilla) cannot bless, or be blessed, or build temples to themselves. And why they are boosted within the area of their worship (dominion)

And if all other pretender-gods are wiped out so that this is the only thing being worshiped, it ascends to godhood. It does not choose to, its forced to.

Well said.

Forced to become a god, geez some people have it tough :)