Pointy Sticks MA started

[Mightypeon]

Hi there,

this game is meant for players of all skill levels.
Diplomacy is machiavellian in regards to NAPs, but trade/province swap agreements must be honoured and "misssend" items/gems/etc. sent back.

Banned are the usual things, copying Bogus orders, excessive Scout blocking, filling other peoples Lab with crap.

Age: MA
Settings: HOF 15, renaming on
All other settings normal
Time: 24hours, 48 later on.
Mods: CBM 1.92, Black Rose 0.28b

Nations:

1.Mightypeon: Black Rose of Ulm
2.Gurthang: Caelum
3.Ghoul 31: Acrosephale
4.Dogged57: Tien Chi
5.Shatner: Pythium
6.Tratorix: Ctis
7.Ossa: Mictlan
8.Shadrach: Vanheim
9: Brodie SWR: Shinuyama

I would love to play with squirreloids "Black Rose" Mod

The MC compatible version can be gained from here:
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=317&st=0
Please rename the black rose ulm.dm file to
Black_Rose_Ulm_MC.dm after downloading it.

together with CBM 1.92, and if nobody cries "noooo evil! Imba" I would play that very nation.
With a total of 4 games under my belt, I see myself as a Noob/intermediate who roughly knows what he is doing.

We are looking at around 8-10 players, and will aim for a map with roughly 15-20 provinces per player.



Cheers,

Mightypeon

[Gurthang]

I would like to play Caelum.

[Mightypeon]

Welcome aboard!

[ghoul31]

arco

[Dogged57]

I'll throw down with T'ien Ch'i, if you'll have me. I've played a few MP games but I'm still learning.

[shatner]

Sure, I'll join in as Pythium. I am also curious how well Black Rose Ulm fares in MP; I've only ever tried them against the AI.

[Mightypeon]

Wellcome ghoul31, Dogged 57 and shatner!

Roster so far:

Mightypeon: Black Rose of Ulm
Gurthan: Caelum
Ghoul 31: Acro
Dogged57: Tien Chi
Shatner: Pythium

[tratorix]

I'll take C'tis.

[Jiggymike]

I might want to be in on this game, lemme think about it for a day or so and I'll get back to you with a nation. How would you feel about another modded nation in it? Save me a spot before you start but if I take too long, just forget about it :)

[Ossa]

*needs another game*

I'd like to join with Mictlan. It would be my first time with them.

[Mightypeon]

Another mod nation is ok as long as:
1: it is in the mod compatibility project
2: Nobody has an issue with it

Otherwise, greetings and welcome aboard tratorix, Jiggymike and Ossa.
Roster:

Mightypeon: Black Rose of Ulm
Gurthan: Caelum
Ghoul 31: Acro
Dogged57: Tien Chi
Shatner: Pythium
Tratorix: Ctis
Jiggymike: Do be determined
Ossa: Mictlan

We are now at 8 players, I am looking at perhaps 2 more.

[Jiggymike]

Hey I'm actually going to pass for now. Don't have the time for another game and was hoping to do one with some different mods. Hopefully you'll still join mine when I start it :)

[Ephraim]

I'd be interested in trying Atlantis, if you don't mind a water nation. If you want this to be a land-lubber-only affair, I'll pick a land nation, maybe Agartha.

[Mightypeon]

I would not mind a Water nation. With one water nation, Rusty Nails seems like a nice wrap around map.

[Shadrach]

I'd like to play as Shangri-La.

[shatner]

Can you provide a link to this Shangri-La mod nation's development thread. If you end up playing as them, I'd like know a little something about them before fighting, allying or trading with them.

[tratorix]

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=27

Here you go.

[shatner]

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=27

Here you go.

Wow! I haven't given the troops much scrutiny but those commanders are nuts! It looks like someone took EA T'ien Ch'i (but with better heroes, which is saying something because T'ien Ch'i has really good heroes), combined them with MA Bandar Log and then gave everything cold resistance/immunity. Also, they get an extra 80 design points from preferring cold-2.

They have a lot of really good mages, the majority of which are sacred. Their top-of-the-line cap-only mage (the Hidden Master) has the following stats:

400 gold for
A2E2S2H3 + 1.1 FESA
Flying
Stealthy
ColdRes 75
NeedNotEat
Map Move 3
Max Age 200
Can throw lightning

The closest MA mage of comparable power is Pythium's Arch Theurge:
380 gold for
A2W1S3H3 + 1.1 FAWS
Really, really old
Map Move 1

That and their 3 recruit-anywhere Lama mage-priests are comparable to many MA nation's cap-only mages. I could see this nation working, maybe, in the Early Age but this seems pretty jarring here in MA. Feel free to point out how wrong I am, but my first reaction is to call this nation over-powered.

[shatner]

More mage analysis. All mages are recruit-anywhere unless specified otherwise. All told, Shangri-la can recruit a maximum of the following in all paths WITHOUT relying on a lucky 10% path for their mages:
Air 3
Earth 3
Water 2
Fire 1
Death 2
Nature 2
Astral 3
Blood 2

None of their mages suffer from old age. Everyone has Cold Resistance 50 or 100. Everyone has Mountain Survival and map-move 2 or 3. They have 3 stealthy mage-priests, including a recruit-anywhere mage-priest-spy. Of their 8 mages, 6 are sacred and have holy 1 or better. They have stealthy troops, stealthy leaders, a healer and are capable of casting the site-search spells for all paths except fire (they max out at F1 casters and none of them have D1 so they can't forge the cheap fire booster). All of their casters except for one capital-only can join a communion via astral or blood magic.

And I haven't bothered to look at their soldiers or their summons yet.

Again, I say wow!


Red-hat Lama
290 gold
A1E2S2H2 + 1.1 FAES
Stealthy
Mountain Survival
Map Move 3
ColdRes 50

Yellow-Hat Lama
220 gold
A1E1S1H2 + 1.1 AES
Mountain Survival
Map Move 3
ColdRes 50
okleader

Black-Hat Lama
280 gold
A1S2D1H2 + 1.2 AESD
Mountain Survival
Map Move 3
ColdRes 50
FortuneTeller 10

Wise One (capital only)
240 gold
20hp, 15str, Ape chasis
W1E1N1 + .5 ENW
Mountain Survival
ColdRes 100
Healer 30
Cold Power 1

Ragyapa Priests
160 gold
D1H1 + .5 AD
Mountain Survival
ColdRes 50

Ngagspa Sorcerer
180 gold
E1D1B1 + 1 AEDB
Research Bonus -3 (research penalty)
Mountain Survival
ColdRes 50

Shangrilan Monk
100 gold
S1H1 + .1 AEFS
Mountain Survival
ColdRes 50
Stealthy
Spy

[BrodieSWR]

Shinuyama for me, if there is room!

[Mightypeon]

I would prefer Shinuyama over Shangi La to be honest.

However, I should perhaps explain what Black Rose Ulm gets compared to normal MA Ulm:
-All of Black Rose Ulms troops have 14-15 MR. They are costed around 15 gold, compared to 11 gold for normal MA Ulm troops.
-Black Rose Ulm gets troop summons, either 9 earth gems for 9 Guardian like Warriors at construction 3, 15 Fire gems for 5 Heavily Armoured Morale 30 guys with Flambeaus at enchantment 5 or 6, or 15 astral gems for 5 guys with "Elf bane Mauls" and Ethereal at Alteration 6.
-Black Rose Ulm can summon various Generals. These are mediocre Thugs -> good light SCs. They also autocast battle field wide buffs (Relief, Will of the Fates, Blessing of Gaia, Solar Brilliance and growing fury) in the beginning of a battle. Solar brilliance and growing fury can harm Ulm more than they aid it, the other 3 are highly usefull though.
-One of those commanders is actually a quite powerfull mage who gets Ulm into guaranteed Death and perhaps Nature or Blood. At 35 Hammers he is rather pricy to blood hunt with though.
-Ulm gets battle field magic to cast Legions of Steel on everbody, pimp everybodys magic resistance and, fairly high up, destroy the enemies non magic armour.

-Compared to normal MA Ulm, they do not have the "forge of Ulm", they have worse randoms on Mage Smiths (10% instead of 20%) and they dont have the low level priest extra priest spells. I also think that Black Rose Ulms Black priests are not drain immune.

Nevertheless, Black Rose is significantly stronger than Normal MA Ulm.

I took a look at Shangri la, and I honestly cant see a weakness.
They have composite Bows with Map move 2, Heavy infantry almost up to Ulmish levels, but with Map move 2, cheap stealthy and good (defense 15) raiders with map move 2 and mages to die for.
Their Sacred units are nothing particularly special, but other than that...
They get sacred 1A2S1D +110 AESD (so, Lighting Bolt/communion thunder strikes or nether bolts or more nether bolts), sacred 1A2E2S +110AESF (Blade wind, gift from heaven spamm), and those are the recruit anywhere guys.
All of them are sacred.
Hidden Masters can get A4 by themselfs with some luck, and otherwise, well sacred A2E2S2 is actually quite damned scary. Especially on a STEALTHY FLYER!!!
I think the nation has enough Strength for 3 different (EA, MA, LA) incarnations mixed in 1.

[tratorix]

Yeah, but all Shangri-La's mages are around 250 gold (Cap only hidden masters are 400 gold each!)They better be damn good at those prices. Crazy good diversity though. Two of their recruit anywhere lama ones have old age as well. I mean, they're good, but there are a lot of ways to kill human mages. What I'm basically saying is I think I can take 'em. ;)

[shatner]

It's not that the mages are under-priced (for the most part they aren't, though some are skirting the line), it's that this nation has recruit-anywhere mages which are the equivalent to most MA nation's cap-only mages... in addition to having what is arguably the best top-of-the-line mage in the Middle Age.

Pythium has the most powerful mage of the base game for MA (the arch theurge) which is path-equivalent to the Hidden Master (a 10.1 caster). And for a mere 20 gold more than an arch theurge you get stealth, flight, cold resistance, the ability to throw lightning (not that you'd often use it) and massively less age penalties. And I believe most people would happily trade in the arch theurge's water access for earth. Mictlan has another 400 gold cap-only mage-priest (the Couatl). However, they are only an 8.1 caster with access to only air, nature, astral and holy. Also, they have terrible slots, possessing only a head and 2 misc slots. Plus cold blooded is only a bad thing unless you have paths in death (for the jade mask).

But alright, some nations have crazy-go-nuts casters. After all, the 2nd best caster of the era is the Bakemono Sorcerer who is a beefy, recruit-anywhere, 9.1 paths, map move-2, sacred caster for 300 gold. Granted he's older than dirt but most nations would sell their teeth for a mage-priest like that. However, the armies of Shinuyama aren't nearly so nice or versatile as Shangri-la's. It looks like they modeled Shangri-la's army after MA T'ien Ch'i, since it has a good combination of spear, sword, glaive and bow units in both light, medium and heavy varieties plus nice, multi-purpose cavalry. However, they have both the composite bows of T'ien Ch'i and the dirt cheap, stealthy short bows of Shinuyama. Many troops also carry a slightly better than average shield (parry of 5 instead of 4) for no discernible reason.

This nation has:
1) the recruit-anywhere mage strength of Shinuyama (who has the best of the age), but WAAAY more diverse in it's paths
2) the super capital mage strength of Pythium (who has the best of the age)
3) the versatile and powerful infantry and cavalry of T'ien Ch'i (arguably the best of the age)
4) the stealthy light infantry of Shinuyama/Pangaea (those Bhopa infantry are really nice for their price)
5) the single greatest magic diversity of any nation of any age ever
6) 80 free design points from Cold-2
7) Really nice, build-anywhere move-2 elite heavy infantry
8) decent sacreds (in both human and ape flavors)
9) cold resistance/immunity and mountain survival for everything
10) some of the best heroes in the game
11) some really nice pretenders (with a rainbow immortal, a cheap immortal with high dominion and a titan with Air, Water and Earth for one of the best bless combinations in the game)
12) recruit-anywhere stealthy, astral, spy priests.

... and I still haven't bothered to look at the national summons.

Any given component about this nation is fine in comparison to what already exists in the Middle Age but all together it really strikes me as too much.

Again, tell me I'm wrong, but I'm just not seeing it.

[tratorix]

Well, this is all speculation on my part, since I've never actually used them myself. However I am in a game with Shangri-La right now, and while I haven't bumped into them, a cursory look at the graphs shows they aren't doing very well. They really strike me as being in the same situation as MA Tien Chi in that their diversity can hurt them as much as it helps.

You'll obviously want to be recruiting a Hidden Master in your cap as often as possible, so thats 400 gold per turn down the drain. You're also going to want to get up some extra forts early to recruit some of your non cap mages (the lama's, mainly), who are also around 250 gold each. Plus you'll want to recruit infantry, cavalry, archers, whatever you're using for expansion, which are either gold hungry, resource hungry or both. Gold is going to be beyond tight in the early game, even with heavy order and production.

Their magical diversity, while great on paper, could easily just end up as a distraction. They only have really good earth, air and astral access. Death, and blood come on mages who suck at research and have no guarantee of more than one in each path, limiting their usefulness, especially since they compete with the much better overall lamas. Their only nature and water access are through the Wise Ones, underwhelming cap only mages who compete with the much better Hidden Masters for a cap recruitment slot and aren't guaranteed more than one in each path.

Overall they just strike me as a nation like MA Tien Chi. Sure, they can do a lot of cool stuff. But not all at once. An extremely skilled player could no doubt wreck with them, but they could just as easily flounder and die early. Anyone playing them would need to have very narrow goals for expansion, pretender design and midgame and endgame. Overall I'd vote to allow them, you seem to be on the opposite side. Of course it's Mighty Peon's game, so I guess it's up to him. :)

[don_Pablo]

Hi.
A short review from a person played Shangri-La in TestingGrounds (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47232).
- Mages and the diversity are really wonderful. So are lovely national heroes (Ascended one’s).
- Sacreds are not worth investment in heavy bless. They are very situational. And cap-only.
- Heavy troops require a lot of resources to be amass. So it takes a time to rally a significant force of them.
- They actually have difficulties with early expanding. So awaken pretender or extremely good scales are the must. And its’ player will feel a constant shortage of money.
- As for national spells I’d note only assassination in blood school(It’s cheap and effective) and Tau lvl-0. Most of the rest seem to be just for fun but not for effectiveness.

I would estimate SH-L as a strong but not super nation.
SH-La could be easily rushed by Ashdod/Mictlan/ArgaDis but you are OK with them.
Strong astral makes Shangri-La better than Shinuyama but all the rest seems to be equal (if you are choosing between them).

I recommend to give them a try.

[Shadrach]

Is this a case of Shinuyama or Shangri-La, but not both? If you only want eight players, I'd be happy to let BrodieSWR play. If nine is OK but Shangri-La isn't, I'll play Vanheim.

[nozshand]

ma jotunheim, thx

[Mightypeon]

I am not finally decided on Shangri La, but lets update the current roster:

1.Mightypeon: Black Rose of Ulm
2.Gurthan: Caelum
3.Ghoul 31: Acro
4.Dogged57: Tien Chi
5.Shatner: Pythium
6.Tratorix: Ctis
7.Ossa: Mictlan
8.nozshand: Jotun
9.Shadrach: Vanheim or Shangri La
10: Brodie SWR: Shinuyama
I think 10 players is plenty, and I am open for Map suggestions.
I believe that between 12-18 land provinces per player is nice, so we would be looking at roughly 100-120 land province maps.
I think Aran would be too small, and Cradle of Dominion too big.
What are your toughts on Parganos, Rusty Nails or Urrapparand?

[shatner]

Hi.
A short review from a person played Shangri-La in TestingGrounds (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47232).
- Mages and the diversity are really wonderful. So are lovely national heroes (Ascended one’s).
- Sacreds are not worth investment in heavy bless. They are very situational. And cap-only.
- Heavy troops require a lot of resources to be amass. So it takes a time to rally a significant force of them.
- They actually have difficulties with early expanding. So awaken pretender or extremely good scales are the must. And its’ player will feel a constant shortage of money.
- As for national spells I’d note only assassination in blood school(It’s cheap and effective) and Tau lvl-0. Most of the rest seem to be just for fun but not for effectiveness.

I would estimate SH-L as a strong but not super nation.
SH-La could be easily rushed by Ashdod/Mictlan/ArgaDis but you are OK with them.
Strong astral makes Shangri-La better than Shinuyama but all the rest seems to be equal (if you are choosing between them).

I recommend to give them a try.

In theory, theory and practice are identical. In practice, this is rarely the case. I have been arguing theory against Shangri-La but, when I get a chance, I intend to try them out in a few SP games.

[Shadrach]

I think Aran would be too small, and Cradle of Dominion too big.
What are your toughts on Parganos, Rusty Nails or Urrapparand?
I much prefer Plane of Rusty Nails to those other non-wrap maps. Is Ephraim still in as Atlantis?

Shatner, your theorycrafting doesn't take cost into account enough, especially for troops and blood hunting (which is more expensive than for Jotunheim and almost as expensive as for Pangaea, which is to say: really freaking expensive). Your factual analysis also contains a few mistakes. The two best recruit anywhere mages are old, and ~40% of Hidden Masters are old. The unique rainbows are all very expensive, and all the immortals have a starting dominion of 1. The 5 parry shield is not strictly better than a normal shield: it has less protection (12 vs 15). Their shortbows cost the same as indie shortbows and are not as cheap as Shin's 9g shortbows (which at 2r are also 1/4th the resources). You're also exaggerating their stealth capabilities, which are comparable with Shin's but not in the same league as Pan's. Actually, no, I take it back. Yetis probably bump them up to being a pretty good stealth nation.

All that said, Shangri-La is very powerful (especially if they don't get rushed), and after looking at them more I think they might be a bit too powerful to be fun. Also Van is a heck of a lot more straightforward, which appeals to me at the moment, so I'm gonna go ahead and switch over to Vanheim if that's OK with Mightypeon.

[tratorix]

I vote Parganos for the map. Not in the mood for a wraparound.

[Mightypeon]

Ok, so Shagrach is in as Van.
So far, 1 vote for Rusty Nails, 1 vote for Parganos.

[Ossa]

I abstain

[Dogged57]

Rusty Nails for me. Love the wrap.

[Mightypeon]

2 Nail 1 Parganos

[Gurthang]

Rusty Nails would be nice.

[Dogged57]

When is this shindig going to get started, you think?

[Mightypeon]

Perhaps on the weekend, I reserve the right to start once enough Map votes to gain a majority are in.
I am voting rusty Nails myself, making it 4 nails 1 parganos.

[nozshand]

nails it is then

[BrodieSWR]

Rusty Nails I guess then.

[Mightypeon]

Good, the map is rusty nails.
I am now trying how to start the game ;)

The game is comparably newblike, so I will put score graphs on, and lets have victory by concession.

[Mightypeon]

The game is not accepting my own pretender due to it being late age.
I am figuring out what is wrong at the moment.
Pming some people who know stuff atm.

[Mightypeon]

Yay me, Please do the following steps:
-Download the "Black_Rose_Ulm_MC mod from llamaserver
-Join the game PointySticks
-I had to delete the game and recreate it, it will appear very soon.

The problem was with llamaserver not liking spaces in mod names at all.

[Mightypeon]

The Proletariat is in! For the Progressive Ulmish revolution!

[Gurthang]

The link to the Black Rose mod seems to be broken.

[Mightypeon]

I have updated the first post.

Another link:
http://llamaserver.net/sombre/Dominions3/Mods/ModCatalogue/%5bMC%5d%20Ulm%20Black%20Rose%200.282b.zip

[shatner]

I do hope the game will be under way soon. I'm itching to play Pythium in MP for the first time. And see how the new Ulm faction fairs.

[Mightypeon]

7 nations signed up, 3 guys are still missing unless I fail at counting.

[Dogged57]

Pretender is sent. Hopefully I have the right version of Black Rose installed.

[Mightypeon]

The versions only differ in their compatibility with other mod nations, so it should not be an issue as not other mod nation are there.

[Gurthang]

Black Rose mod was not enabled when I designed my pretender. Should I resend it?

[nozshand]

sorry guys, i have to pull out due to some last minute work schedule changes, my apologies for any inconvenients.

[tratorix]

So, are we just starting with 9 or are we looking for another player?

[shatner]

I say we go ahead with just 9. The difference between 3 and 4 players (for example) is huge but the difference between 9 and 10 is pretty small.

[Mightypeon]

Ok, I am going ahead once Gurthan resend his pretender (to be sure).

[Gurthang]

I just resent my pretender.

[Mightypeon]

Ok, Were on!

[Mightypeon]

The game page seems to be heavily bugged, I am contacting llama.

[Dogged57]

I was going to say I hadn't gotten my turn yet. But that game page is odd looking indeed.

[tratorix]

Everybody remember to get your turns in by nation_84::Ulm, don't want to stall.

[Gurthang]

Everybody remember to get your turns in by nation_84::Ulm, don't want to stall.

What do you mean by that? :confused: I havn't received any turn yet!

[shatner]

Llamaserver is having troubles right now and a lot of games (this one included) aren't hosting. This game is unique in that if you go to it's llamaserver page (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=PointySticks) you see that the "next turn due" field says "nation_84::Ulm" instead of a timestamp.

No one has gotten their turns yet. The start of this game happened to coincide with server troubles.

[Mightypeon]

That propably it, just stay patient for a short while I guess.

[Dogged57]

I received a 12 hour warning but still have not received a turn, even after requesting resends several times. Are we going to restart this thing? Our is there another solution I'm not aware of?

[Mightypeon]

It looks like a restart soon, I am trying to get a reply from llamabeast.
I postponed hosting for 24 hours anyway.

[Dogged57]

Patience pays off. The game page looks normal now, and the resend actually worked this time. Looks like game on!

[Dogged57]

I downloaded the file for PointySticks and fired up Dom3 only to find that when I tried to play my turn, the game gives me an error message: The following mods need to be installed: MC_Ulm_Black_Rose_v0.282b.dm. So I reinstalled Black Rose a few dozen times, rebuffed my puppy trying to squirrel her way onto my lap while I'm calmly problem solving on my laptop. And still nothing. This is, of course, when I started throwing things.

And then for some reason I remembered the post upthread about adding underscores to the name of the mod.

Turn sent.

[Gurthang]

I've got the same problem as Dogged57. I deleted the mod and reinstalled it after renaming the file Black_Rose_Ulm_MC.dm, but the problem persists.

Any thoughts...? :sick:

[Dogged57]

The Black Rose mod seems to be installed properly - at least I can enable it all right from the preferences menu - but whenever I try to open the game a window pops up and says I have to install it first.

What's going wrong? I installed BR in the mod directory -- should I create a subdirectory instead?

All help appreciated guys! :sick:

Rename your mod, putting underscores in the spaces. Dom3 doesn't like spaces.

[Gurthang]

Rename your mod, putting underscores in the spaces. Dom3 doesn't like spaces.

All right, it seems to be working fine! :)

[Ossa]

Resend didnt work for meL:/

[Mightypeon]

Great, my first turn is in too, I added 24 additional hours so that everyone has time to adjust to the game actually working!

[Dogged57]

Ulm sure is gobbling up territory.

[Mightypeon]

Independent troops are not very good at exploiting Ulms national weaknesses ;)

[Dogged57]

Independent troops are not very good at exploiting Ulms national weaknesses ;)

What are Ulm's natural weaknesses?

[Mightypeon]

The Weakness of Ulms troops? Crappy MR (8-9), High encumberance, Map Move 1.
Be advised that Black Rose Ulm does not have low MR at all, but pays a fair bit of money for that (basic troops costing 15 instead of 11 gold in CBM).

[BrodieSWR]

I hate to ask this of you guys, but I just got divorced in Brazil, and I am returning to America.

My plane leaves on Tuesday morning, and I will be in a place with access to a computer sometime in the afternoon of Wednesday.

So, I would humbly request an extension of 72 hours in order to give me time to reach my destination in America.

[Gurthang]

Has Vanheim already been turned to the AI? :confused:

[Dogged57]

Has Vanheim already been turned to the AI? :confused:

Whoa, wait, what now? And just when I run into them...

Not exactly cool to have a neighbor go AI at this point in the game. Is there some sort of bug or something?

[tratorix]

Not sure why he'd go AI this early, especially since Vanheim seems to be doing pretty well at this point.

[Mightypeon]

Ouch, I totally didnt see this coming, I certainly did not turn anybody to AI.

[Mightypeon]

Extension for 72 hours due to Real Life concerns of Brodie SWR.

In the future, it would help if requests for extensions are also send via PM, since I get PMs rerouted to my mailbox, but not forum posts.

[Mightypeon]

Also, I want to hold a vote over a rollback to find a possible sub for Vanheim.
If a rollback is done, Vanheim is back from being AI, and we can look for a sub. However, a Rollback can create some bugs, and I do not have a lot of experience with it.
I do beleive however that having Van go AI will be quite unbalancing.

I thus vote for rollback.

[shatner]

I'm not aware of any roll-back bugs, specifically, but they are generally considered bad news and to be avoided when possible because of how they warp the game. Say player 1 sends a force to go conquer some indies and on the following turn his force collides with another player's force and gets annihilated in the process. Should the turn be rolled back, it would take a lot of discipline for that player to behave as though he didn't know what was going to happen. This goes doubly with diplomacy related reveals (e.g. "on turn X, my neighbor declares war and now the turn as been rolled back... I better beef up my defenses").

All that said, I'm not happy about having Vanheim going AI and will submit to a rollback if everyone else is willing to handle it maturely. I keep a turns folder for each MP game so, in the event of a rollback, I am going to just re-submit my turn 8 .h file so nothing will be any different.

[PriestyMan]

I'm not aware of any roll-back bugs, specifically.

There are like a million possible bugs with rollbacks. units dissapearing, gems disappearing, more units appearing, units getting new slots even, or polymorphing. literally all the weirdest stories regarding in game stuff comes from rollbacks. but this all happens generally when players fail to do it properly mainly through forgetting to delete their old .trn and .2h files before rolling back.

[tratorix]

So i assume I shouldn't send my turn in until we get this sorted out? I'm going to abstain on this, as while I don't like the idea of someone being AI this early on, I also don't like the idea of a rollback.

[Mightypeon]

The game is not going to turn anytime soon.

As an alternative, we could also start a new game.

So, vote for:

1: Rollback
2: Start new game
3: Set Vanheim to AI

[shatner]

My votes, in descending order of preference:

1. Rollback
2. AI Vanheim
3. Not starting a new game
4. Don't stop the game!
5. Starting a new game

[Dogged57]

Considering my awful start, I don't mind starting a new game. I've also saved my turn files and will be happy to submit my previous turn for the rollback option.

I'm also happy continuing with the game as is, since I would benefit greatly from having an AI neighbor.

I'll abstain due to my conflict of interest.

[Gurthang]

I shall also abstain due to the same conflict of interest as Dogged57 :angel

[ghoul31]

lets rollback

[Dogged57]

Any resolution in sight? I'll change my vote to whatever the majority has already voted if that moves things along.

[shatner]

Ditto

[tratorix]

So now we have to roll back 2 turns if we do a rollback...

[Mightypeon]

I reached the decision to simply get on with the game.

Lets just continue.

[Mightypeon]

More fleshed out:
I got a bit ill, and forgot to further delay the timer, also, I talked with some people that had rollbacks, and rollbacks are usually worse with mod nations.
I hope nobody got a stale from this.

[Dogged57]

I'm going to go kill vanheim, then. Nobody attack me, please.

[Mightypeon]

While I do not border Vanheim, it is excessivly likely that everyone who does will try to kill it too :)
As a matter of fact, early AI players are just unpredictable indies...

[Dogged57]

While I do not border Vanheim, it is excessivly likely that everyone who does will try to kill it too :)
As a matter of fact, early AI players are just unpredictable indies...

Should make life interesting for a while, anyway. At least I've rebuilt my forces after you demolished an entire expansion force+, MP.

[Mightypeon]

Did anybody else get a stale despite sending in turns?
I did, I think Shinuyama did too.

[Mightypeon]

I had some seriously tiring issues at work and granted myself a 16 hour extension.
If anybody else wants an extension, please send me a PM in addition to posting in the forum.

[BrodieSWR]

Sorry, I just got back from Brazil, and I've been depending on my brother's PC for dominions games, and his PC died, so I sort of can't continue in this game... I apologize for any inconvenience this might have caused to anyone, and please find a sub to replace me. I am sorry that I wasn't able to get access to a computer sooner to inform you guys.

[Mightypeon]

I am delaying the game from hosting.

[Gurthang]

Is anybody looking for a sub?

[Dogged57]

Checking in: any progress?

[Mightypeon]

Starting to look for a sub now.

Looking for Sub posts at both forums.

[Mightypeon]

Newsflash:

After a riot in the Captial of Shinuyama, apperantly a new leadership has emerged in a well planned quick and largely blood less revolution! While it is almost certain that the KGB of the Peoples Republic had a hand in it, it appears that a KGB-backed coup was initially succesfull in ousting BrodieSWR, however, the KGB failed to take the highly competetive leadership of the Bakemono into account! As BrodieSWR was liquidated by a combination of a pointy Stick and a cleverly placed banana peel, instead of a Peoples revolution, the next best Bakemono General Stepped up! Wellcome Rond! Pretender of Shinuyama!

OC: We have a Sub, welcome RonD!

[RonD]

The orderly samurai never riot, and we are most certainly not revolting (the goblins, you ask? well, OK, they are revolting). A perfectly orderly transition of authority has been completed. Orders have been given and will be carried out as soon as the new month arrives. We believe that we are aware of all diplomatic obligations. I you think you have an agreement/arrangement with Shinuyama but have not heard from our ambassador, please send a private message.

[tratorix]

So does this game have quickhost turned off, or is the llamaserver just doing that thing where it decides it doesn't feel like processing the turn again?

[shatner]

Llamaserver seems to be running smoothly at the moment. If you look at the admin options for this game there a link that says "Turn on quickhost" which means it is currently off. We'll have to wait for the turn to host tomorrow or for Mightypeon to do some admin stuff.

[shatner]

The orderly samurai never riot, and we are most certainly not revolting (the goblins, you ask? well, OK, they are revolting). A perfectly orderly transition of authority has been completed. Orders have been given and will be carried out as soon as the new month arrives. We believe that we are aware of all diplomatic obligations. I you think you have an agreement/arrangement with Shinuyama but have not heard from our ambassador, please send a private message.

We have sent you a PM but Pythium is ran by a thorough clergy and has presented visual evidence to back out claim.

[Mightypeon]

I had turned quickhost off, now turning it back on to give players time for diplostuff.

[Dogged57]

I've PM'd MP asking for a 12 hour delay. Things should be back on track for me by tomorrow evening.

[Mightypeon]

Delay has been granted!

[Dogged57]

Had enough yet, Ossa? You've already lost one army and are about to lose two more. I mean, I enjoy thrashing some Jag warriors, but you're going to need to bring more than a handful. They keep ending up as bloody pin cushions...

[Mightypeon]

Meanwhile:

The Proletariat of the Peoples Republic feels greatly vinidicated in assigning the "Most Reactionary Backwards Beourgois Slaveholding Scum" title to Acrosephale, who further reinforced their backwards reactionary nature by not researching anything since the last 4 turns. The NKVD proclaims total innocence regarding accusations of burning Acrosephales only lab down, and an alternative hypothesis is that Acrosephale does not dare to send its underequipped outdated troops into battle with the Peoples Liberation army without having at least 10 or so mages for support.

Ulm News
Fair and heavy

[Dogged57]

C'Tis has joined in the whole "stomp on the little guy" campaign started by Mictlan. I'll make it as painful as possible for both of them, but with the two encroaching on my territory and Vanheim's endless AI hordes being thrown against my other border, I'm merely postponing the inevitable. It's been interesting, though I wonder how different the game would have been if my initial expansion force hadn't run into Mightypeon's black steel brutes and gotten slaughtered.

[Mightypeon]

You have a very decent shot of holding out longer that Acrosephale at least.
I can only recommend you to fight to the finish, as this will also paint you are as a more annoying target in other games from a metagaming perespective.

[Dogged57]

You have a very decent shot of holding out longer that Acrosephale at least.
I can only recommend you to fight to the finish, as this will also paint you are as a more annoying target in other games from a metagaming perespective.

I always fight to the bitter end!!! You attack me and I'll make you pay! And hopefully the world will support the cause of the little guy.

[Dogged57]

HAH!!! Fort Doom lives up to its name! Reports are in from the field: C'tissian forces were defeated in a heated battle at the Ruins of Fort Doom! Exclamation point!

[Mightypeon]

You are watching: Ulm news! (Fair and Heavy)

Reports are in that the Peoples Liberation Army of Ulm has succesfully liberated the Acrosephalan capital! While the situation is still chaotic, Field Marshall Georgy Zhukov assures me that the situation will be in hand soon enough!
We now proceed to an interview:
Ulm News:"Greetings Field Marshall, what caused this spectacular victory under very acceptable losses?

Field Marshall Georgy Zhukov:"Mass heroism, superior doctrine and combined arms! Nearly All of our deaths were due to Acrosephalan Mind Burns (they do not dare to attack the well armoured bodies of our warriors), yet they found that the minds of revolutionary soldiers to be bastions of iron will indeed! It was also by superior strategic decisions that their Chariot armies were bottled down at their fort, these forces would have been much more suited to an open field battle! All they did was wait in one large mass behind their heart companions (that were holding the gate) and get shot at by our Mundane and Magic artillery, who caused large amounts of casulties. Additional hilarity ensued when some of these chariots routed.
When our Blessed Blacksteel joined the fight (after our first batch of 20 Black Knights was wittled down by mind burns), the heart companions died very quickly too.

[Mightypeon]

You are watching: Ulm news! (Fair and Heavy)

Reports are in that the Peoples Liberation Army of Ulm has succesfully liberated the Acrosephalan capital! While the situation is still chaotic, Field Marshall Georgy Zhukov assures me that the situation will be in hand soon enough!
We now proceed to an interview:
Ulm News:"Greetings Field Marshall, what caused this spectacular victory under very acceptable losses?

Field Marshall Georgy Zhukov:"Mass heroism, superior doctrine and combined arms! Nearly All of our deaths were due to Acrosephalan Mind Burns (they do not dare to attack the well armoured bodies of our warriors), yet they found that the minds of revolutionary soldiers to be bastions of iron will indeed! It was also by superior strategic decisions that their Chariot armies were bottled down at their fort, these forces would have been much more suited to an open field battle! All they did was wait in one large mass behind their heart companions (that were holding the gate) and get shot at by our Mundane and Magic artillery, who caused large amounts of casulties. Additional hilarity ensued when some of these chariots routed.
When our Blessed Blacksteel joined the fight (after our first batch of 20 Black Knights was wittled down by mind burns), the heart companions died very quickly too.

[ghoul31]

the only thing worse than a sore loser is a sore winner.

[Mightypeon]

Sore winner? In what way? I fully expect, even demand (role played) gloating when I will eventually go down, with bonus points awarded for anti communist references in the gloating.
and what would you expect of Fox, I mean Ulm news anyway?
(Hopefully) funny Commie propaganda perhaps?

[RonD]

The game seems to be stuck. I received an email claiming it could not find a valid .2h file. I resent mine and got a confirmation email, but that doesn't seem to have done anything.

[Mightypeon]

I hav received my turn normally, I am delaying by 24 hours in any case.

[RonD]

It did eventually host that turn. I (and everyone except C'Tis and Ulm) have submitted the current turn, but it looks like Llamaserver is suffering from an overflow of confusion - several games have all the .2h files received but are not hosting.

[Mightypeon]

Autohost is on, but I will make a further delay for 24 hours just in case Ctis has issues.
In any case, the onset of war between Pythium and Mictlan has no doubt created a huge increase in diplomatic activities all over the world, so more time to conduct random deals is likely in the interest of many nations.

[Mightypeon]

You are watching:

Ulm News! Fair and heavy!

The entire world is aghast at the speed and ferocity and Shinuyamas assault into Ctissian territory! In a single month of operations, the Bakemono have catapulted themselfs into the rank of a true world power! Although significant parts of Shinuyama are water, and thus of comparably more limited use than land provinces. However, few nations are likely to consider the task of taking on Shinuyamas Kappa legions in their own element as particularly enticing.
While the Bakemono conquered much land, in particular via the insertion of Bakemono-Sho commandos deep into Ctis itself, Royal Ctissian army is largely unscathed as it apperantly was out of position, even though they appeared to have pulled out of Tien Chi earlier. It remains to be seen what will happen in this war.

[Dogged57]

Dear propagandists,

Your news story has a mistake that requires a retraction. The C'Tissian Royal Army should be referred to as the other CRA or the second CRA. The first army sent against T'ien Ch'i was sent on into the afterlife.

Thank you for your continued reporting. We always enjoy your view of events.

[Mightypeon]

Well, the 12 hour warning is in, only I send my turn, and I will make the reasonable assumption that a holiday induced 48 turn delay will be seen as positive by a majority.

[shatner]

Kudos to Shinuyama for what looks to have been a carefully coordinated and enormous opener to your war with C'tis. The charts don't show C'tis as having lost any troops so I can only assume there is a great deal of fighting left to see who actually gets to keep those provinces. Still, it looks very impressive from the charts; I look forward to you writing up some sort of report about it once you can do so without compromising your ability to compete in this game.

[Gurthang]

In the next few days I will be abroad and I doubt I will be able to send my turn every day. Could we set the time delay at 48 hours until Friday?

Thanks in advance and apologies for the inconvenience :o

[tratorix]

Kudos to Shinuyama for what looks to have been a carefully coordinated and enormous opener to your war with C'tis. The charts don't show C'tis as having lost any troops so I can only assume there is a great deal of fighting left to see who actually gets to keep those provinces. Still, it looks very impressive from the charts; I look forward to you writing up some sort of report about it once you can do so without compromising your ability to compete in this game.

Indeed, we seem to have a minor infestation of goblins here. It should be dealt with shortly.

[Mightypeon]

Greetings,

we are setting the timer to 48 hours for now, as we are imho proceeding rapidly into the midgame.
Please note that any additional delay requests are more likely to be granted in time if send to me via PM, as I am getting those at my E-Mail. At my work, my E-Mail Adress is safe for work, but this forum is not.

[Mightypeon]

Delayed due to lamaserver shenangians.

[shatner]

Just a heads up, I got an email "PointySticks: Turn 30 received for C'tis". That's a little weird since I'm not playing C'tis, I'm playing as Pythium. Tratorix, I would recommend you re-submit your turn even if you've already submitted it just to make sure llamaserver didn't misplace or otherwise bungle your turn.

[Mightypeon]

I did delay hosting by a lot and turned autohost off, people may want to resend their turns to make sure everything is correct.

[RonD]

I re-uploaded my turn after the server came back, so I am good to go whenever everyone else is.

[Mightypeon]

I know for a fact that Pythium, me and Shinu should be good to go.
This leaves Tien Chi, Ctis and Caelum.

[Dogged57]

Good to go. Resubmitted a while ago.

[Mightypeon]

Ill will then turn on quickhost now.

[RonD]

The wind carries rumor of war between the superpowers, Ulm and Pytium. Yet scouts and score graphs report no activity. Not yet, anyway.

Back home, the wind carries - well, really yucky stuff. We find the campaign in C'Tis to be extremely unpleasant business. The rest of the world should be showering us with gifts, because we are saving each and every other nation from having to invade the swamps themselves. Though we have met with early success, the outcome is far from certain. People are getting sick. Reports of trenchfoot grow. It will only get worse as we attempt to move deeper into the fetid wasteland. The quartermaster reports that replacement goblins are on order, should arrive soon.

[Dogged57]

We've called out the fumagators and exterminators to clean up the lands to the south.

[Mightypeon]

Lets say that tensions between the Peoples Republic of Ulm and the Empire of Pythium are continuing to grow, but that both nations are unwilling to break diplomatic agreements in a dishonourable way.
After all, the massive armies employed around Mictlan are not moving very quickly anyway.

[Dogged57]

That's kind of a scary zone right there. I'm glad that I'm not between you two.

[shatner]

It was almost certain to happen sooner or later though, as Mightypeon pointed out to me in a PM, large-scale, civ-ending wars are happening way sooner in this game than in some of the others we're both in. I guess naming a game "Pointy Sticks" means that players are more inclined to poke one another.

Regardless, one of the stated goals of this game was to give the Black Rose of Ulm custom faction a good test drive and I aim to see it driven like a rental car during Spring Break.

[Mightypeon]

We have like half the players down after a bit mroe than 30 turns.
Things are indeed coming to a head quickly.

[Mightypeon]

I think I know why Vanheim went AI, their pretender was a Freaklord with N1B2, which implies that they perhaps submitted the wrong god.

[Mightypeon]

You are watching:

Ulm News, Fair and Heavy!

The World holds its breath as the Peoples Liberation army launches Operation Uranus! Pythiums Elite 6th army is cut off in Mictlan, and has lost much of its mage support due to a most cunning commando operation. However, it is by no means certain wether the encirclement will hold, even though the fact that Pythiums second field army is currently beeing sieged too may prove crucial for the war effort.
Ulmish military analysts believe that Ulm must win the war quickly, before Pythium succesfully utilizes its superior fort numbers and gem income ratings.
The income situation is slighlty favoring Ulm, but it is unsure wether this fact is significant enough.

[shatner]

Yes, the war has opened and Ulm has fared reasonably well in its opening but this is a clash of empires and first blood matters much less than last blood. Ulm's "commando operation" was a suicide bombing, but that is to be expected from a country full of fanatical nihilists. What hasn't been reported is the failed amphibious assault Ulm attempted, as well as the series of failed assassinations Ulm tried to execute. In the interest of fairness, we would mention any successful assassinations... but there weren't any.

A true meeting of armies has yet to happen. Once it does, then there will be something worth reporting.

[Mightypeon]

It appears that Pythiums mages, assassins and diplomats are quite formidable, while its warriors are not exactly up to Ulmish standards.
Unfortunatly, in deplorable incident happened in which the Free Mictlan Liberation army sallied forth, and was fired upon by still boyued up Ulmish soldiers. The Free Mictlan Liberation army returned fire with a fairly impressive array, which quickly decimated the ill positioned forces of the Peoples Republic. However, the Mage Corps of Ulm was able to escape largely unscathed.


There also seems to be a bug, some of the thunderbows I got from pythiums assassins register as "Abomination Banes" for some reason...

Pythium was a bit more succesfull with its assasinations than Ulm, although I believe that 1 out of 6 is perhaps not what Pythium intended. It still beats 0 out of 2 though.
Economically the outlook is positive for the Peoples Republic, as its forward detachments are quite efficient in beating up Pythiums PD and denying vital resources to the Empire. Alas, the Empire has made vital progress on the diplomatic front by convincing Tien Chi to join the "Anticomintern". Senior party leadership is tight lipped about its own diplomatic efforts, but the currently well going war effort may prove to have diplomatic advantadges on its own.

[shatner]

It appears that Pythiums mages, assassins and diplomats are quite formidable, while its warriors are not exactly up to Ulmish standards.
Unfortunatly, in deplorable incident happened in which the Free Mictlan Liberation army sallied forth, and was fired upon by still boyued up Ulmish soldiers. The Free Mictlan Liberation army returned fire with a fairly impressive array, which quickly decimated the ill positioned forces of the Peoples Republic. However, the Mage Corps of Ulm was able to escape largely unscathed.


There also seems to be a bug, some of the thunderbows I got from pythiums assassins register as "Abomination Banes" for some reason...

Pythium was a bit more succesfull with its assasinations than Ulm, although I believe that 1 out of 6 is perhaps not what Pythium intended. It still beats 0 out of 2 though.
Economically the outlook is positive for the Peoples Republic, as its forward detachments are quite efficient in beating up Pythiums PD and denying vital resources to the Empire. Alas, the Empire has made vital progress on the diplomatic front by convincing Tien Chi to join the "Anticomintern". Senior party leadership is tight lipped about its own diplomatic efforts, but the currently well going war effort may prove to have diplomatic advantadges on its own.

I can't tell if you are lying in-character as a propagandist or if one of us is having some weird out-of-sync error. My replays are showing you as having attempted 2 assassinations and failed at both whereas we have attempted 6 assassinations and failed at 1. In other words, the "score" is Ulm 0/2, Pythium 5/6. Furthermore, our assassins seem to have a keen sense of targets as they have ended 4 mages and one very expensive, summoned commander, who fled the battle and rusted his armor with his tears before he met his fate.

The point is, you go to war with the army you have and our army was prepped for fighting lightly armored Mictlan sacreds. Combine that with Ulm being the first-strike aggressor and Pythium has certainly suffered some early-conflict setbacks. Still, we're down an army, Ulm is down an army (courtesy of Mictlan showing that it still has teeth) so matters are far from decided. Ulm is taking a handful of satellite provinces but gains easily taken are easily lost. After all, if you plan to climb a tree to get to the moon you can report rapid, early progress too... The true magical, logistical and military might of Pythium has yet to be tested. In short: bring it on!

As to the diplomatic front, it is no surprise that Ulm fights alone while Pythium has allies, both open and secret. Ulm has been waging wars of aggression since the dawn of the age, attacking Shinuyama, invading and destroying Arcoscephale and finally threatening T'ien Ch'i for... no discernible reason other than sheer bullying. We of Pythium have sought peace with all our neighbors when possible and have never exterminated an entire people; neither of which can be claimed by the iron nihilists.

The diplomats of Pythium have ranged far and wide offering words of peace, trade and solidarity. We shared the spoils of Vanheim with our neighbors, the Caelum. We shared our spoils of Mictlan with T'ien Ch'i and our erstwhile ally, Ulm. We have offered trade at a considerable reduction of price despite not having an inherent forge bonus like Ulm. What has Ulm shared? Who, other than Ulm, profited from the demise of Arcoscephale? We are peaceful and generous whereas Ulm is ambitious, war-like and miserly. Who would you have triumph? We would gladly share the spoils of Ulm with all who would join our coalition. What can Ulm offer you, what has Ulm ever offered you, except the business end of a maul?

If you would rise up against the despots of steel, please PM Pythium; we have a great wealth of resources and forged equipment (which Ulm has only had the merest taste of) which we would gladly share.

[Mightypeon]

OC: I only had one assassination succesfull on battlescreens, I also ended up with 2 captured thunder bows, in addition, I can certainly ascertain that my summoned guy is alive and well on the campaign map. Had he ran away he would be dead. Although I miscounted, Pythium killed two mages called Lobimag and Starwald, not one.
Several of my other assassination targets also proceeded to fight in the battles of Mictlan, after eliminating their would be assassins with superior firepower.

Besides, in what way are we more agressive than Pythium?
Our early clash with Tien Chi was unanticipated, and while we deplored senseless loss of life, we felt no hostility towards them and promptly signed an NAP 3 proving our rational and peacefull nature. Nor did we initiate into any attempt of bullying them into submission, when we asked about their opinion on matters during the early stages of the Tien-Chi-Mictlan-Pythium war, we indeed welcomed their well thought out reply, even though we opted to do something else. Nor do we bear ill will towards Tien Chi in general, their decision to side with Pythium makes sense from their point of view, the sheer laws of geography dictate that Tien Chi can make potential gains from fighting Ulm, while fighting Pythium would be georgraphically infeasable.
While we did engange in an early war with Shinuyama, we were most rational with all of our other neighbours which included Acrosephale.
That Acrosephale choose to suprise attack us and spit on our previous border agreements (and in spite of having an AI neighbour) did indeed lead to a full retribution, and contrary to Pythiums believes, we were fully willing to share spoils, and partly did so with Shinuyama.
Shinuyama itself profited from the Acrosephalan ulmish war by managing to conquer not insignificant amounts of neutral territory and get an additional inlet into the sea.
Concerning Mictlan, we were in the belief that wide segments of the world agreed that having Pythium conquer all of Mictlan is not acceptable.

On a general note, we also do not consider either ourselfs nor Pythium to be "superpowers" in cold war sense of today. The policies of nations such as Shinuyama and Caelum are driven solely by their own rational self interests, and Ulm has proved in that past to be quite accomdating of those.

[shatner]

OC: I only had one assassination succesfull on battlescreens, I also ended up with 2 captured thunder bows, in addition, I can certainly ascertain that my summoned guy is alive and well on the campaign map. Had he ran away he would be dead. Although I miscounted, Pythium killed two mages called Lobimag and Starwald, not one.

All in-character banter aside, this is worrisome because my turn-35 results seem very different from your results turn-35 results. I have attached a picture showing a sampling of what I've seen so we can try and reconcile this as either a misreading of events or an actual llamaserver, turn-out-of-sync error.

EDIT: larger version of image can be found here (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?t78874krwzp4cjs)

[RonD]

I would suspect that this is yet another manifestation of the bug where battle replays are incorrect. The replay is not part of the turn file, but is recreated on your computer based on data in the turn file (as I understand it, anyway). The definitive result is what shows up on the strategic map the next turn (so sometimes only the *real* winner actually can figure out what happened). Probably this is even more cryptic with assassinations. But Llamaserver has nothing to do with it, nor does it suggest that the main game file is corrupt.

Are your assassins still there in place this turn? I would guess that the answer is no. If it turns out that both the assassin and victim of any one attack are actually still alive (or showed up in a regular battle) - that would be weird.

I might also recall having read that the battle-display-not-matching-the-actual-results bug is more common in games using mods?

[shatner]

Are your assassins still there in place this turn? I would guess that the answer is no. If it turns out that both the assassin and victim of any one attack are actually still alive (or showed up in a regular battle) - that would be weird.

I might also recall having read that the battle-display-not-matching-the-actual-results bug is more common in games using mods?

So I went back and checked and no, some of my assassins who "won" seem to be missing. This is... unsettling. I will certainly have to revise my turn when I get the chance this evening. I gotta admit, I preferred the version of reality where I won 5 out of 6 rather than 2 out of 6. That bug is a bitter pill, Dominions, and I don't appreciate being forced to swallow it.

[Mightypeon]

Did your assasins acutally tried to use their tunder bows in your battles?
In mine, Thunderbows are somehow abonomation banes, which is a mellee close combat things with bonus against magic things for Rose Ulms summons.
Not particularly suited to attacking mages that blast you... And of course totally unexpected for your own scripting I believe.
Your assassins did not fare well when trying to run up to my commanders while getting Iron Blizzarded (or spanked by the fairly tough thug).
May it be an issues of differing mod versions?
I remember their were some issues at the game start...
Can you check what your remaining guys with Thunderbows have as weapons?

[shatner]

In my now-debunked replays, yes the assassins used the thunder bows as bows... that shot lightning. Therefore they stood back and fired lightning at your commanders and over 80% of those commanders died. From lightning, not melee beat-downs. One such assassin is shown below. He is definitely holding a thunder bow and not an abonomation bane (which isn't even an item that can be forged).

[shatner]

CBM 1.92 has the following definition:

#selectitem "Thunder Bow"
#descr "When the string of the Thunder Bow is drawn, a lightning bolt will
appear where the arrow should have been, ready to be fired at the archer's
enemies. The further the string is drawn, the more powerful the lightning
bolt will be. The Thunder Bow can be a very formidable weapon in the hands
of a man with strong arms and a good eye."
#weapon 927
#end

#newweapon 927
#name "Thunder Bow"
#flyspr 210
#explspr 10241
#range 40
#ammo 24
#dmg 0
#magic
#armornegating
#shock
#aoe 1
#att 10
#sound 27
#end


Ulm Black Rose v0.282b MC edition has the following definition.
-Abomination Bane
#newweapon 947
#name "Abomination Bane"
#dmg 12
#att 5
#def 2
#len 3
#nratt 1
#twohanded
#magic
#dt_magic
#armorpiercing
#sound 8
#end

Mightypeon, are your definitions any different?

[Mightypeon]

On a side note, did you have two assassins with the same "Hermkesborn" name assassinating the same dude (Herrmann) of mine?
Or is it yet another bug?
In my version, 2 normal mage smiths, died.
It also appears that your assassins in fact used their bows, in my versions they tried to run up and got messily killed.

[Mightypeon]

Checking!
My version has an ID conflict indeed.

I would normally instantly blame myself since I am host, however, when I play a turn of Pointy Sticks it is loading the conflict free MC version (under Mods enabled) for me. If my computer was thinking it to be the non MC version (which I also have in my mod directory) it should load this one.
Perhaps something was not correctly cleared/loaded during our quirky game creation? Or during one of llamaservers shutdowns that happened early?

As a warning, there are ID conflicts with the Astral Serpent (929), the dusk dagger and the boots of long strides.

[Mightypeon]

By the way, props for the well thought out tactic, lightning bows on assassins with good precision (your assassins have a natural precision fo 13? Didnt know that) is an excellent idea! The only good chance of getting killed is a turn 1 nuking mage, or an actual thug, and most mages will spend a turn self buffing. Although I am not sure about the odds of hitting, its of course range dependent.

[shatner]

Here is the relevant info from the version of Black Rose of Ulm. Note that my version doesn't even use weaponId 927 yet seemingly yours does!?

#modname "Ulm Black Rose v0.282b MC edition"
#description "Re-envisions MA Ulm"
#icon "./Ulm_Black_Rose/UlmBlackRoseBanner.tga"
#version 0.282

--Version MC 0.282 beta
--Author: Squirrelloid
--Intended for use with CBM 1.84 or later, but should be useable without. Please see CBM 1.84 + Ulm Black Rose dm for combined mods.
--This is an MC version of the mod which makes it wholly separate from the MA Ulm nation. Not that you'd ever want to play regular MA Ulm when this was available. Shares unique heroes with MA Ulm.

--Uses
---NationID 84
---Sites 855-857
---WeaponID 710, 713, 715, 717, 726, 945-950
---ArmorID NONE
---UnitID 2840 (Locksmith, from WH), 3953-3979 (Ulm units copied to be modified), 3980-3998 (new units)

--MC Notes
---A lot of stuff from CBM is copied into here without change. Specifically a number of weapons, and unit 2840.
---Drain Magic has been slightly altered from CBM by reducing its fatigue cost, this should just create a new version of the spell. I have slightly modified the name of the spell herein by adding a space after the name.
---I just sort of guessed at something reasonable for Province Defense
---There doesn't seem to be any way to set tower weapons for sieges. Bother.

--Beta Notes
--Placeholder graphics: Inner Circle of the Black Rose pretender
--Undone in this version but intended: +3 nation specific pretenders: Reason Incarnate, Fallen Grandmaster of the Black Rose, Great Engineer. Possibly +1 spell: Malediction
--All spell placement and costs tentative


Here is the relevant info from the version of CBM 1.92

#modname "Conceptual Balance Complete 1.92"
#description "This is the Conceptual Balance mod for Dominions 3. The mod aims to increase the number of viable choices available to players. While the base game includes a huge amount of content, much of it would always be avoided by a seasoned player. In CBM, hopefully, almost all content may find a use, if only in a niche strategy. A small amount of new content is also added with balance in mind."
#version 1.92
#icon "CBM_Sprites/cbcomplete.tga"
#domversion 3.26


-- USES THE FOLLOWING MOD SLOTS

-- Monsters: 2795-2919, 3400-3444
-- Weapons: 710-728, 751-779, 808-809, 900-919, 927-931, 974-976
-- Armors: 237-239,244-274
-- Sites: 800-802, 858-879, 882-885

[shatner]

By the way, props for the well thought out tactic, lightning bows on assassins with good precision (your assassins have a natural precision fo 13? Didnt know that) is an excellent idea! The only good chance of getting killed is a turn 1 nuking mage, or an actual thug, and most mages will spend a turn self buffing. Although I am not sure about the odds of hitting, its of course range dependent.

Thanks. I was pleased when I came up with the idea and then thrilled when I ran a test game and found it to work exceedingly well (something like a 90% success rate).

The fact is, I've spent a huge number of mage turns and air gems on forging these bows and handing them to commanders (not just assassins, though plenty of those) and all that activity was founded on assumptions which are now looking shaky because of this mod conflict. It'd be like playing Jomon and planning on outfitting lots of spirit thugs with cheap frost brands, playing through 30 turns and spending gobs of research, mage-turns and water gems forging frost brands only to find out that frost brands now offer poison resistance to the holder instead of doing AoE cold damage... it kinda throws your train off the rails.

[Mightypeon]

I can definitly feel your pain, although I am not quite sure what can be done to adress it in this game.
I am obviously also biased, as, despite my hopefully amusing propaganda attempts, Pythium is very far from beaten.

[shatner]

I can definitly feel your pain, although I am not quite sure what can be done to adress it in this game.

I don't think much of anything can be done for this game to fix the mod conflict issue, unless Llamaserver allows mid-game mod changes (I'll raise a flag with llamabeast and see what he says on the matter).

However, we know that your version of Black Rose of Ulm and/or your version of CBM 1.92 differ from mine since I don't have this conflict of Ids and you do. Therefore, I'd really like to find out exactly why our versions differ so that we can know that I downloaded an old version of some mod or that I accidentally edited my version of some mod or that there is an actual conflict between MC Black Rose and CBM 1.92 or any of a half-dozen other combinations. Even if we can't fix things for this game, I'd really like your help in tracking down exactly why things went wrong in this game so llamabeast/squirrelloid can be notified of a problem with their mods or so we'll know how to handle including Black Rose of Ulm in a CBM 1.92 game without incident. After all, win or lose, I'd like to play this variant of Ulm myself in some future MP game but I can't really do that if the mod may or may not be buggy.

EDIT: I justed PMed llamabeast to see if there is a way we can correct the mod definition used by this game. If so, we can correct this id conflict, ensure everyone has a corrected version of the mod and then we can move forward with me shooting you full of lightning bolts, as was intended.

[Mightypeon]

The problem in itself is simple I think.
I first downloaded a version of Black Rose that was around the time of CBM 1.82.
Squirrel later entered a first Mod compatible version (which did not have the conflict with normal CBM, but afaik one with Svarogia), which was later replaced by a version (which you have) that has both conflicts with Svarogia and with CBM fixed.

To reiterate, I have 2 versions of black rose Ulm on my laptop, one that is called Black rose, the old version with the weapon conflict, and a new version that does not have the weapon conflict and supposedly gets loaded on starting a pointy sticks gamefile. Interstingly, if I delete the old version that is not supposed to be loaded, I can no longer run Pointy Sticks.

For some reason, and that reason could very well be an user error on my side, or be attributable towards either our quirky game start (caused by having spaces in the black rose Ulm .dm file), or other llamaserver issues.

I can easily explain how llamaserver ended up with loading the old version, user error by me after repeatedly trying to start it is a very propable explanation. What I cant explain at all is why my game shows to be loading the MC version while actually loading something outdated...

[Mightypeon]

The problem in itself is simple I think.
I first downloaded a version of Black Rose that was around the time of CBM 1.82.
Squirrel later entered a first Mod compatible version (which did not have the conflict with normal CBM, but afaik one with Svarogia), which was later replaced by a version (which you have) that has both conflicts with Svarogia and with CBM fixed.

To reiterate, I have 2 versions of black rose Ulm on my laptop, one that is called Black rose, the old version with the weapon conflict, and a new version that does not have the weapon conflict and supposedly gets loaded on starting a pointy sticks gamefile. Interstingly, if I delete the old version that is not supposed to be loaded, I can no longer run Pointy Sticks.

For some reason, and that reason could very well be an user error on my side, or be attributable towards either our quirky game start (caused by having spaces in the black rose Ulm .dm file), or other llamaserver issues.

I can easily explain how llamaserver ended up with loading the old version, user error by me after repeatedly trying to start it is a very propable explanation. What I cant explain at all is why my game shows to be loading the MC (no conlflict) version while actually loading something outdated...

[shatner]

Can you extend the hosting for this turn by 24 hours? A friend's having an all-day bachelor party thingy and while I had hoped to get my turn in this morning before it started, that is becoming increasingly unlikely.

[Mightypeon]

Sorry, I missed that one!
Please write PMs for urgent delays, I get those on my E-Mail but not threads I posted in!

[Dogged57]

IC: The empire has entered a dark period. Perhaps even a dark age. Supporting an old friend has brought us to blows against an ancient enemy, the steel men behind their iron curtain. Now, another enemy has encroached upon our lands, bringing the very skies we revere down upon us. The winged half-man of the mountains have soared off of their lofty perch, jealous of the lands held by the most civilized of nations. We shall stand against them, using our knowledge as our shield. They have taken us by surprise (due to a clerical error-the minister in charge of the negotiations has been staked to an iron rod and placed in front of the invading lightning-hurlers). We will rally and defend our lands, throwing the birdmen back into the mountains. Their pet "god" shall perish for transgressing against our people, and their shattered armies shall slink back into their nests! Our people shall burn them, purifying the lands and making it fit for a true civilization to flourish in!

OOC: Our base are belong to you.

[shatner]

While I hope to not need it, I'd like to request an extra 24 hour extension now. This weekend was entirely eaten up by family obligations and I was utterly unable to deal with the volume of turns I need to look at as well as diplomatic dealings I need to be cognizant of. I'm going to try and spend tomorrow evening getting all caught up but that may not be possible (yet more stuff going on) so 24 hours of breathing room would ensure no stall or half-baked turn gets submitted.

Thanks.

[Mightypeon]

I delayed for another 24 hours (game now hosting Wednesday evening central European time).

[RonD]

I delayed for another 24 hours (game now hosting Wednesday evening central European time).

Llamaserver still says Tuesday.

[Mightypeon]

Thanks! It somehow didnt delay!

[Mightypeon]

it delayed it now but did so twice:)

[RonD]

So long as quickhost is on - and everyone puts their turn in as soon as they can - we shouldn't have to wait any longer than it takes Pythium to recover from their hangover.

[Mightypeon]

That is the plan indeed.
I am anxiously awaiting the next turn, as the war of Mictlanese liberation (I believe the Pythium/Tien Chi alliance calls it something else) may beginn entering its decisive phase soon.

[Mightypeon]

extended for 12 hours because Ctis seems to be missing.

[RonD]

I realize you have good intentions and that I might be biased because I am fighting C'Tis - but the turn already got extended by 24 plus an accidental extra 24 hours, so its not like he hasn't had a chance.

As for the bias - C'Tiss is down to a handful of provinces, and I am certain that I wouldn't do anything different even if I expected him to stale. Indeed, I will pm him a reminder to take his turn.

[tratorix]

Thanks for the extension, though I agree with RonD that it really wasn't necessary. If it looks like I'm going to stale again, just let it go.

[Mightypeon]

Feedback wise, I hereby make the claim that Rose Ulms "Enigma of steel" spell is overpowered or close to overpowered for its magic level.
I believe Pythium would be inclined to agree.

Both battles still were quite bloody, but the combination of my onbattlespells, the battlefield wide spells partial to Rose Ulm and the fact that Iron Blizzard does not cost much fatigue propably won it for me, even though Pythium extracted a heavy toll from my infantry with its magics.

However, Karl Marx the liberator of Ebys is costing nearly a 100 gems with his gear (although a more economic use would cost about 60, 50 with ulm forge reductions), which is not that far away from an early SC. However, I think that he had a greater impact on the battle then a gem equivalent Iron angel would have had, especially considering that Pythiums communion propably would have zapped a flying SC.

We also note the ability of drain magic to send people straight into framerate hell.

[Mightypeon]

Pulled out a 48 holiday extension.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Mightypeon]

Hmm, I think I can predict what Mr. "Grouchu Marxist" is up to, unfortunatly, there is nothing I can do about it -.-

[RonD]

Will Harbingers be enough to stem the mighty Ulmish tide? Guess we'll have to wait for the news reports.

In other news, Caelum must be trying to break into the ice cube business.

[Mightypeon]

I would draw if a rage comic about the last battle against a harbinger I had.
Bottomline: My most awesome harbinger killing dude (my math claims he can nearly two shot things!) did not get into contact, because surrounding pathing is stupid, and because the friggin harbinger only killed like 4 dudes, and one of them was a light infantry guy I recruited in some random province.
However, mass ridicule by the troops he was trying to kill indead hurt his/her/its selfesteem and greatly weakened him/her/it! He will have a fairly hard time killing anything but PD, but their ability to soak up damage from my troops is highly annoying.
Meanwhile, the Harbinger that got sent to pillage Ulm itself got blinded by the splendor of the Proletariats capital, glory to progress!

[shatner]

Meanwhile, the Harbinger that got sent to pillage Ulm itself got blinded by the splendor of the Proletariats capital, glory to progress!

Of course, that means that a blind harbringer is capable of besieging the capital of mighty Ulm. 0 atk, 0 def and 35hp is apparently too much for the Ulmish honorguard to contend with. Glory to progress indeed. Maybe he went blind out of pity...

[shatner]

So, a new year... looking over it I can tell I no longer have the time needed to maintain my current glut of Dom3 games. Both work and home concerns are making it increasingly hard for me to keep pace with these games, resulting in delays, poor plays or (in a few rare cases) stalls. So, I'm going to try and find subs for me in almost all of my current games (I'm only staying in two that are either very close to a conclusion or are very low maintenance).

Sorry for the withdraw but I don't have the time to spare and my half-assing several games won't do anyone any good.

[RonD]

That is a shame. Do you plan to soldier on until you find a sub, or are you quitting cold as of today?

[shatner]

I'll continue to play while we look for a sub but finding a sub quickly would be best.

[Dogged57]

Amazing what concentrated FAM can do to an "army". It's been fun, gents, but I'm done for. Enjoy your endgame.

[Mightypeon]

Armies can still be viable later on, but depend on buffing spells.
It is however, very hard to defend armies against thunderstrike spam, unless you get decent access to thunder wards.
The other problem you had was being tien Chi, one of the races where Caelum has scant issues with aggressivly entering close combat (immidiatly attacking f.e. Black Plate Flails or Dai Bakemono will hurt comparably frail eagle units much much more, although army of mist changes things quite a bit). Especially if you largely utilize infantry. TCs cavalry is rather cool though, and its numerous attacks are quite efficient in quickly bringing down enemies that to an extent depend on Defense.

I have posted a sub wanted post.

[Gurthang]

So, a new year... looking over it I can tell I no longer have the time needed to maintain my current glut of Dom3 games.

Sorry to hear this. I will miss a loyal and competent opponent as much as our high-worded correspondence.

I hope you will find the time to come back to the community in the future!

[Mightypeon]

Interesting, it appears that Ulm is winning the war against Pythium but loosing the game, although I propably made that choice during pretender creation.

[Mightypeon]

I placed a preventive delay, as both Pythium and Shinuyama indicated to have some heavy real life workloads.

[shatner]

I placed a preventive delay, as both Pythium and Shinuyama indicated to have some heavy real life workloads.

Much obliged.

[Mightypeon]

A lot happened in this turn, and we may have a found a sub in Numahr, I am delaying things for 72 hours.

[RonD]

We're coming up on 48 hours until the turn hosts, and the potential sub has had 4 days to look things over. Can we get a decision one way or the other?

[Mightypeon]

This is most likely indeed.

[shatner]

I sent the sub a full host of details concerning the game, the politics and his assets and he hasn't responded with a definitive "yes" or "no". If he's not interested, I'm probably going to divvy up my assets and go AI. This game has been great and challenging but my involvement in it is already past the time I have to dedicate to it. Unless a sub shows up real soon, my vote is for Pythium to get dumb and overrun (of course, you could argue this has been going on for a while, what with my steady losing streak to Ulm ;)).

[tratorix]

I can set Ctis AI and switch to Pythium if no one has a problem with it. I believe once I've gone AI as one nation I can switch to another without the server freaking out.

[shatner]

Suites me fine. I can play this turn while tratorix makes C'tis go AI, then tratorix can take over Pythium from there. Once this is the confirmed course of action, I will message all the tips and diplomacy info I have to tratorix.

[Mightypeon]

I fully agree with this.

[Gurthang]

All right :up:

[RonD]

Thanks tratorix!

[Mightypeon]

Just a headsup,

the game should be progressing over the weekend.

[RonD]

I realize that we had a player change nations and that can take a little time to get up to speed, but we're barely running a turn per week now. That is the sort of pace where people lose interest and drift away (especially with no posted explanation for the repeated delays in the hosting schedule). Can we get back on a regular schedule before that happens? If someone regularly needs more time, I would rather have a 72-hour interval that we keep to than what we have now.

(now watch me be the next person who gets extra busy and asks for a delay.... But if I do, I will at least be sure the players know what is going on)

[Mightypeon]

It is partly due to the player change, setup diplomacy and Ossas temporary absence.
The game will turn soonish.
Only waiting for Pythium/Tratorix at the moment.

[Gurthang]

I think we can safely turn Pythium AI.

[Mightypeon]

I need to get in touch with Tratorix, there wont be another stale, but things may take a bit longer.

[RonD]

We are most pleased to see C'tss's dominion finally go away. Now we get to watch as half our forces waste away over the next year while they die from their diseases.

[Mightypeon]

Still trying to get in touch with Tratorix for AI setting if neccessary.

[RonD]

There isn't anything magic about Tratorix setting Pythium AI. Maybe a pm to shatner and he would be willing to do it, or just any random Joe off the street. If no one is around, though, I would rather have Pythium stale until someone comes along than put the game on hold waiting on a 3-province nation. An AI Pythium would have some affect on the course of the game, but not very much - so I don't think there is a very big difference between stale/AI, except for stale keeping the game moving.

[Mightypeon]

There is an issue with trades I would like to see fullfilled.

We have Shatner back in for AI setting, did anyone else have trades with Pythium that have to be carried out?

[Gurthang]

did anyone else have trades with Pythium that have to be carried out?

Not that I can think of.

As a side note, I will be abroad this weekend. Could you please delay hosting for next turn (48) until Monday evening if that is not already the case?

Thanks!

[Mightypeon]

Delay of 48 hours granted for Gurthang.

[tratorix]

Just wanted to pop in and apologize for my disappearance. Spent the last week or so in and out of the hospital with a pretty serious illness. Wish I hadn't even offered to take over the position, rather than have this happen. :( Best of luck with the rest of the game.

[RonD]

Glad you're feeling better. Don't worry about the sub business - we all knew it was not a very strong attractive spot anyway.

[Mightypeon]

Just as a heads up, the incredible Cold Wave in Germany got me as well (I bet Caelum or Shinuyama or both were channeling their ice mojos!!!) my staling was entirely my fault, and hopefully wont happen again.

[Mightypeon]

3 Peoples are missing their turns, I did a delay.

[RonD]

Mine will be in before the original deadline.

[Mightypeon]

Excellent, I just want to avoid Stales at the moment. My turn is also prepared, just not send in.

[Gurthang]

I will be away this weekend. I need to postpone hosting until Monday evening. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Mightypeon]

Arghhh, Most stupid Peon ever, send the wrong files for the wrong games, dual stale!!!
You get the delay ofcourse.

[RonD]

Ouch.

From what I can see of the world, it didn't cost you much. Things seem pretty quiet.

[Mightypeon]

Some mishaps with that Pythium fort I guess, but at least I got the other one.
It remains to be seen what will happen now, 3 fairly equal powers, with Ulm being a bit strong conventionally, and much weaker magically (0 globals crap).
gotta read up romance of the three kingdoms for strategies!

[Mightypeon]

What is also interesting is that I am propably the strongest in a defensive sence, Raiding me is fairly difficult due to tailored recruitable antithugs that dont cost much (if any) gems, and I propably have superiority in major army vs army engagements due to my onbattlespells. However, I have very limited SC choices and rather limited raiding/remote attack potential myself.

[Mightypeon]

I applaud Shinuyamas diplomatic skills in making Caelum commit protracted suicide. Unless Shinuyama actually offered the winged ones a shared victory, aiding Shinuyama, who has Dai Tengus and can counter absolutly anything Caelum could possible throw at it, in destroying Ulm may give them some short term gains but will end up with having a Kobyashi Maru on its hands once the game finishes.
Especially since my troops will do by far more damage to Caelum than to Shinuyama, as I will go out in the way I cause the most damage, and I can do by far more damage to caelum.

[Mightypeon]

Sorry dear players, in retrospect my post sounds a lot like whining which is because it is whining, and was written after I was a bit "flabbergasted" at the quite skillfully executed invasion of Ulm, and followed the quite human reaction of attributing this quite uncomfortable situation to anyone other than myself.

So instead of sour grapes, Time for glorious Ulmish propaganda!!!

Ulm News, Fair and Heavy!

Citizens, people, glorious Allies, the peoples Republic of Ulm faces its final trial in its quest of health insurance for everyone! Today, we stand united against mischevious Bakemono which want to replace our glorious Communist Propaganda with baseless and morally defunct imperialist Anime, and vile beourgois thatcherite Winged things that want to privatize our beloved public transportation system! Just because you have wings, it does not mean that other people dont like taking the bus! How are law abiding hard working Guardians, Unmakers and Black Knights supposed to reach their work places at the front without a reliable bus service?
The Peoples Republic will triumph over all its agressors! Unleash the sekret weapons!!!

P.S.
"Global Transportation system, a spell that increases Map move of all friendly units in friendly dominion by 1, is a global enchantment I would totally cast".

[Gurthang]

I applaud Shinuyamas diplomatic skills in making Caelum commit protracted suicide........

No shared victory arrangement is implemented. My alliance with Shinu was a natural consequence of the cataclysmic pace of your victories against Pythium, and was bolstered by our lack of communication after I denounced our NAP. Frankly, I expected you to attack me straight away on NAP expiration :rolleyes:

Communication does wonders, you know :)

As far as my protracted suicide is concerned… it may well be. I am just too unexperienced to assess the comparative strenghts of different races.

In all cases, it will have been an exciting and instructive game :cool:

[RonD]

I have PMed our benevolent admin for a 48-hour extension due to work. Hopefully I won't need the whole time, will get my turn in as soon as I can.

In general, I am now ready for the game to move to a 72-hour timer. Anyone else have opinions on that?

[Mightypeon]

Ill second the move to 72 hours, very few turns are getting done without extension of some kind anyway.

[Gurthang]

No problem either way.

[RonD]

Ulm staled the past two turns, missing all of the critical initial clashes of the war. Not a very good sign. Is the game done?

[Mightypeon]

I have no idea why llamaserve is behaving like that....

[RonD]

Are you saying that you sent in turns, but the server ignored them? Did you get the "turn received" emails? If so, that's a pretty serious problem. The game's status page never showed you as having submitted a turn.

[Mightypeon]

No, I delayed the game but it did not delay.

[RonD]

How would you like to handle it? Should we discuss a rollback?

[Mightypeon]

That would be usefull, I did not look at the actual new turn yet.
The last turn I should have gotten in was the one in which everyone largely retreated from my territory.

[RonD]

I'm not quite sure if you are asking for a 1-turn or 2-turn rollback.

I could probably support a 1-turn rollback - but not 2 turns. Not only would that be playing with fire (I'm guessing there would be a pretty significant risk that the whole game would explode in some way), but I put an awful lot of time into preparing those turns, and I really do not want to have to recreate it all. If we just roll back to make it turn 55 again, I can just resubmit my existing .2h file.

[Mightypeon]

1 turn, 2 turn is playing with total and utter fire.

[RonD]

I am OK with a 1-turn rollback. I think every remaining major power ought to be able to veto the rollback, so you should pm Gurthang to make sure he sees this.

[Gurthang]

I just read the discussion. I dislike rollbacks but I won't object to one, even if there was an important battle (where I was duly trashed) in 77 this turn, and even if I just sent turn 56. Shortly, I will accept your decisions.

However, I will be abroad this weekend. Whatever your decision I will try to do my turn tomorrow afternoon, but in case I am unable to, next hosting should be set at Monday evening.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Gurthang]

No replies?

Whichever your decision, I won't be able to do my turn before Monday evening. I must beg for a delay in hosting.

[RonD]

A bit more communication would help here.

If you (Mightypeon) are particularly busy with real-life concerns for awhile, let us know and we'll be quite understanding. But if you are just growing disinterested because the game is not turning out how you had hoped - well, there is a certain level of responsibility that goes with organizing a game and being the admin.

[Mightypeon]

I did Delay, and yes, I am very busy with real life. I fairly suddenly have to work for supporting 2 people (as opposed to just me) and it shows....

I will rollback then, but If anyone is interested in taking over admin duties I can most certainly send him the password.

[Mightypeon]

Concerning "giving up", I would currently rate Shinus chances of winning at about 65-70% (better strategic positions and shown very good generalship) my chances at 10-15% and Caelums chances at similiar levels. As chances of winning were also at around 10-15% when the game started, the current situation is no reason to give up.

[RonD]

I can take over as admin, if you want. We will need to know what kind of hosting schedule you think you can maintain. And you will probably need to give me at least 12 hours notice when you need a timer extension.

[Mightypeon]

That sounds great, I can propably manage 72 hours.