Randomocalypse - 5 players, randomly generated nations - Squirrelloid wins!

[Valerius]

With the disappearance of the pantokrator a great war was fought. Pretenders led their followers in a cataclysmic struggle against their rivals. However in the end, none proved strong enough and this struggle shattered the nations of old. Now a new group of pretenders has risen to power, each gathering disparate remnants of the old powers and forging them into new nations. And each determined that they will ascend to the throne of the pantokrator.


Summary

This game will use Elmokki's Randomocalypse mod to generate a random nation for each player. I will be the admin and will generate five nations for each player to choose from. The goal here is to not have players generating nations non-stop until they get an optimal one but also to provide some choice so people aren't forced to play a nation they really dislike.

After nations have been chosen I will put them together in one mod and the nation rosters will be posted (which you can of course also check just by firing up a test game with the combined mod). So, you will know your opposition when designing your pretender.

Other than using Randomocalypse I've gone with standard settings. But if there's a consensus to use a different map, have no a indies game (something I think could be interesting in combination with this mod), etc., I'm flexible.


Settings

Players: 5
Map: Fivelands (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Five_Lands)
Era: MA (custom nations of course but this affects indies and site frequency)
Mods: Randomocalypse (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47908) and CBM 1.92 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47741)
Hosting: llamaserver
Hosting interval: 24 hours up to turn 20, 48 hours up to turn 40, 72 hours from then on
HoF: 15
All other settings default


Roster

Redka, The Floating Circle, led by P3D
Redka was a feudal society ruled by a king living at The Floating Circle and his vassals. With the awakening of the pretender god, the Kings of Rain emerged from the sea and became the rulers of Redka. The coming of the Kings of Rain was followed by an age of human sacrifices. Drawing power from The Floating Circle, the Kings of Rain strive to conquer the world for their god!

Mages: King of Rain, Moon Priest, Mictlan Priest
Troops: Burning One, Crossbowman, Bandar Archer, Wingless, Footman, War Shambler, Mountain Warrior


Yelloea, The Godly Harbour led by Squirrelloid
Yelloea was a pious nation ruled by priest-kings centering their worship at The Godly Harbour. With the awakening of the pretender god, the Arch Bishops of the Sacred Shroud descended from their temples and became the rulers of Yelloea. The Arch Bishops of the Sacred Shroud started an age of virtuousness. Drawing power from The Godly Harbour, the Arch Bishops of the Sacred Shroud seek to enslave the unbelievers!

Mages: Starets, Moon Priest, Augur
Troops: Warrior of the Five Elements, Archer, Jotun Hurler, Abysian Light Infantry, Sauromatian Raider, Pikeneer, Falchioneer


Grerus, The Blossoming Caldera, led by Lung Drago
Tyrants ruled Grerus with an iron fist from The Blossoming Caldera. With the awakening of the pretender god, the Pans infiltrated Grerus and became the rulers of Grerus. With the Pans came an age of wild growth. Uncovering the secrets of The Blossoming Caldera, the Pans strive to bring the true faith to everybody!

Mages: Pan, Master Shugenja, Caretaker
Troops: Black Templar, Agarthan Light Crossbowman, Light Bandar Archer, Warrior, Wolf Rider, Fomorian Spearman, Equite


Moria, The Pond of the Slain, led by Jiggymike
Inhabitants of Moria used to live in a fear of a horrible blood cult sacrificing virgins at The Pond of the Slain With the awakening of the pretender god, the Witch Kings conquered Moria with a horde of undead and became the rulers of Moria. The Witch Kings started an age of darkness. Following the lore of The Pond of the Slain, Moria will enslave the unbelievers!

Mages: Witch King, Shaman, Keeper of the Tombs
Troops: Black Centaur, Jotun Hurler, Sapper, Velite, Sauromatian Raider, Peshtsi Spearman, Entrance Guard


Reheim, The Weeping Valley, led by Korwin
Reheim was a pious nation ruled by priest-kings centering their worship at The Weeping Valley. With the awakening of the pretender god, the Ryujins rose from the waters and became the rulers of Reheim. The Ryujins brought an age of gentle waves. Uncovering the secrets of The Weeping Valley, the Ryujins strive to annihilate the false gods!

Mages: Ryujin, Nagaraja, Ice Crafter
Troops: Serpent Cataphract, Blizzard Warrior, Samurai Archer, Velite, Lancer, Abysian Infantry, Peshtsi Axeman

[Korwin]

I really like to try this random mod.
So sign me up. *goesdownloadingcbm*

[Valerius]

Welcome! Based on a comment from elmokki I'm making one change and increasing the number of nations each player can choose from to 5. That should be enough to result in something playable.

[Squirrelloid]

Oh what the heck, i love random games.

Show me the choices bridgekeeper, i am not afraid!

[Lung Drago]

Yes, this sounds interesting. It's good we can choose from 5 nations since from what little generating I did I got for example a nation with too much assasins (making most of them pretty much useless).
So, I'd like to join in as...uh. I'd like to join in.

[elmokki]

Yes, this sounds interesting. It's good we can choose from 5 nations since from what little generating I did I got for example a nation with too much assasins (making most of them pretty much useless).
So, I'd like to join in as...uh. I'd like to join in.

3 is maximum I believe, but should be really rare. You could get a weak assassin as your stealthy, some other assassin as your special and Baobhan Siddhe as your tertiary mage.

[Valerius]

Welcome, Squirrelloid and Lung Drago!

I don't have time to start generating nations now but if everyone could PM me an email address to send their choices to I'll do so as soon as I get a chance.

Although, elmokki is releasing updates very quickly so maybe it would be better to generate all the nations at once using the most current release of the program at that point?

[Korwin]

Yeah all Nations should be generated the same version.

E-Mail PN'ed.

[Valerius]

Thanks all for the email addresses.

Yes, I think we'll definitely want all nations generated with the same version of the program. The last release, for instance, made some significant changes to the troop calculations.

Anyone reading the thread and thinking about joining just look at the type of nation you could get. Giants and more giants!

[P3D]

Add me, sounds interesting.

[Valerius]

Welcome! Only one more player needed.

Once we've got everyone signed up I'll check with elmokki. If he thinks it's worth waiting a bit for the next release I'll do that.

When I generate the nations I will quickly look them over. If I notice anything that seems strange I'll PM elmokki and the player asking if he thinks it's a bug. Of course if I miss it and you notice something wrong please do the same.

[Squirrelloid]

I've been helping Elmokki with some of the balance formulae, so I can tell you that its kind of rough and unit synergies won't necessarily get factored in very well. So there is probably significant slop. Choosing 1 of 5 nations should let people account for this i would hope.

[Valerius]

Do you think I should up it to something like 7? After elmokki's comment I increased it to 5 choices from 3 but now I'm thinking maybe it should be even higher. I'd like everyone to have a nation they are happy with.

[Squirrelloid]

Do you think I should up it to something like 7? After elmokki's comment I increased it to 5 choices from 3 but now I'm thinking maybe it should be even higher. I'd like everyone to have a nation they are happy with.

Too many choices will make it insufficiently random. 5 may be too many =P

[Valerius]

That's true, too many choices will remove the element of chance.

Ok, I think what I'll do is let each player choose their risk tolerance. By default everyone will get 5 nations to choose from. I ran a few tests and I usually found that about 2 out of 5 random nations were to my liking so I think we'll be ok with 5 as a ceiling.

However, if you are daring let me know and I'll send you fewer nations. And if anyone is bold enough to do so I'll just generate one nation for them and they'll have to play that. :p

[Jiggymike]

I've been driving myself nuts trying to get this mod to work...I'd like to join this game if there's still room! I'm down to one MP game and things aren't going too well in that so I'm probably going to have extra time on my hands.

I've only generated one nation so far and it was pretty crap. I definitely think between 3-5 options is fair and I'd err on the smaller side. You could also check the nations before sending them to make sure they aren't 3 crap nations and are generally somewhat balanced.

[bgifu]

Take me. Let's fight.

[Valerius]

Jiggymike, welcome to the game! Please PM me your email address.

Bgifu, sorry but I'm afraid Jiggymike beat you to the last spot by a few minutes.

[Valerius]

Ok, nation choices have been mailed out. Remember to enable CBM 1.92 and then the Randomocalypse mod. Then you can just start an MA game with 5 human players and choose the five random nations in order to look them over.

Once you've made a decision just PM or email me your choice. Also, if you'd like to change the name of your nation let me know that as well.

[Squirrelloid]

well, i didn't even see this in time, obviously, but i didn't look any farther than my third nation and i have 2 interesting choices.

[P3D]

Of my choices, Redka.

[Korwin]

...What should I choose...

Harder than I thought...

[Squirrelloid]

I'd like Yellowea of mine.

[Lung Drago]

All of my choices are definitely difficult in some way. It either has crappy mages, or crappy priests, or giant infantry, or it's troops apparently don't know what is a sword. I shall have a challenge in this game, that's for sure :) But I suppose I cannot expect it to hand me a perfect, unconquerable nation on a plate :)
Teh random nation generator still has a lot of space to improve, since some combinations I have just witnessed are a waste of unit's abbilities or outright illogical for a serious game (having move 3 units is not so great when you have no move 3 commanders, isn't it? Or what real use is having a selection of 2 archer cavalry, when one is clearly superior to the other with only a slight difference in resources cost?). But then again if this worked flawlessly it would be The Single Marvel of Designing :shock: Let us make a good use of this situation and if you lose this game, remember it can be blamed on the generator! :D
Also, I expect every nation will need to have different flag color. If a conflict with another player's national flag should arise with mine, I voluntarily hand over the green slimy flag in favor of a shiny yellow, for example :D

[Valerius]

well, i didn't even see this in time, obviously, but i didn't look any farther than my third nation and i have 2 interesting choices.

Yeah, I realized you hadn't had time to respond but didn't want to leave anyone out when I sent the nations and I figured you could do exactly what you did in order to limit your choices. Though I have to admit if I took that approach I would be very tempted to check the other nations after I chose, just to see what I might have missed out on... :)


I've been helping Elmokki with some of the balance formulae, so I can tell you that its kind of rough and unit synergies won't necessarily get factored in very well. So there is probably significant slop. Choosing 1 of 5 nations should let people account for this i would hope.

One area of synergies that comes to mind is hot/cold nations. You are unlikely to get an entire troop/commander lineup that is immune to an element. OTOH I find you frequently get better magic diversity than most of the base game nations since you don't have the common pattern of a nation's weaker mages having a subset of the stronger mage's paths. Now some of those magic paths will be low level but it's enough to site search and forge some basic items.


...What should I choose...

Harder than I thought...

I think this is a good sign. When I quickly looked over the nations before sending them out I didn't have any WTF reactions like when I first saw Hinnom. I'm not at all claiming there's perfect balance but I don't think any of these nations will warrant a dogpile just based on their lineup.

[Valerius]

All of my choices are definitely difficult in some way. It either has crappy mages, or crappy priests, or giant infantry, or it's troops apparently don't know what is a sword. I shall have a challenge in this game, that's for sure :) But I suppose I cannot expect it to hand me a perfect, unconquerable nation on a plate :)

I don't think you would have wanted that perfect nation anyway: since diplomacy is allowed your perfect nation might have been facing a 3 or 4 vs 1. So it would have had to have been *really* good to face those odds. :D

Teh random nation generator still has a lot of space to improve, since some combinations I have just witnessed are a waste of unit's abbilities or outright illogical for a serious game (having move 3 units is not so great when you have no move 3 commanders, isn't it? Or what real use is having a selection of 2 archer cavalry, when one is clearly superior to the other with only a slight difference in resources cost?). But then again if this worked flawlessly it would be The Single Marvel of Designing :shock: Let us make a good use of this situation and if you lose this game, remember it can be blamed on the generator! :D

I see what you're saying but some of this doesn't bother me, like having map move 3 units without map move 3 commanders. I kind of like that you've got these pieces and you have to figure out ways to get the best use out of them. For instance, I play MA Van a lot and there you have flying valkyries without any flying commanders. And your stealthy commanders don't have a foot slot so even with a forge bonus forging a magic carpet for each valk-leading commander isn't cheap. You've also got skinshifters with forest survival but none of your commanders have that ability so depending on the map I look for indie mages to help out in leading them over forest terrain.

Also, I expect every nation will need to have different flag color. If a conflict with another player's national flag should arise with mine, I voluntarily hand over the green slimy flag in favor of a shiny yellow, for example :D

Yes, I figured I'd have to do some switching of colors. If anyone has a preferred color let me know and I'll use that. I don't remember if the flag colors always get used in the same order (in which case you will all have the same 5 colors in your nation choices) but there are a total of 14 different colors included in the mod. In any case, I'll definitely avoid you having to use green. ;)

[Jiggymike]

Hey I'm definitely going to be at least a few hours before I check my nations, sorry. I suspect I'm in a different time zone than everyone else and I don't have my computer with me today at school. However, I'll have it selected by tonight for sure so you can all start coming up with pretenders to destroy me with!

[Valerius]

Hey I'm definitely going to be at least a few hours before I check my nations, sorry.

No worries, take the time you need.

I also wanted to remind everyone to check their capitol magic sites to see which of their units are cap only - these do not necessarily match vanilla or cbm. For instance, I ran a set of test nations and a mage that is normally cap only was cap only in one of the random nations but recruit everywhere in another.

[Jiggymike]

I really like two of my choices but I thiiiink I'm going to go with Blue. Do me a little favor and give them a better name than Bluthan, thanks. Hope I'm not making a mistake by turning down those hydras!

[elmokki]

Teh random nation generator still has a lot of space to improve, since some combinations I have just witnessed are a waste of unit's abbilities or outright illogical for a serious game (having move 3 units is not so great when you have no move 3 commanders, isn't it? Or what real use is having a selection of 2 archer cavalry, when one is clearly superior to the other with only a slight difference in resources cost?).

Then again some vanilla nations do have similiar "problems" more or less. I wouldn't be too worried if a nation gets couple of units (out of 6) that they will never recruit. An another issue is if the nation gets a powerful (powerful from the program's viewpoint) troop lineup and all the heavy infantry is utter crap or something.

[Korwin]

I'll choose Reheim.

[Lung Drago]

Then again some vanilla nations do have similiar "problems" more or less. I wouldn't be too worried if a nation gets couple of units (out of 6) that they will never recruit. An another issue is if the nation gets a powerful (powerful from the program's viewpoint) troop lineup and all the heavy infantry is utter crap or something.

I hear you there. I never found a use for the bakemono shaman of MA Shinuyama for example :)

What type of diplomacy are we talking here, anyway? All treaties are binding?

[Squirrelloid]

What type of diplomacy are we talking here, anyway? All treaties are binding?

What?

Boring.

[Valerius]

I imagine everyone's curious to check out their opposition and I've updated the first post with nation summaries. I'm having problems uploading attachments at the moment but once I've got the combined mod uploaded I'll let you know.

[Valerius]

Also, I expect every nation will need to have different flag color. If a conflict with another player's national flag should arise with mine, I voluntarily hand over the green slimy flag in favor of a shiny yellow, for example :D

Since Yelloea had already claimed yellow I switched you from green to purple. Korwin, I switched you to white since P3D already had red. Colors ok with both of you?

I really like two of my choices but I thiiiink I'm going to go with Blue. Do me a little favor and give them a better name than Bluthan, thanks. Hope I'm not making a mistake by turning down those hydras!

How about something from Tolkein? I think "Moria, The Pond of the Slain" sounds suitably ominous for the Witch Kings.

What type of diplomacy are we talking here, anyway? All treaties are binding?

Other than stating whether a game has diplomacy or not, I never make any rules regarding this. My experience has been that agreements are honored the vast majority of the time but if the game is on the line people may feel the stakes are high enough to violate a NAP. Aside from consequences in the current game, the main drawback to violating agreements is that the player may be viewed as an unreliable person to do business with in future games. Really depends on the person and the situation how they react. So, it's completely up to you how you want to approach diplo.

[Valerius]

Ok, the mod is now attached to the first post. You'll probably want to start a test game to see the other nations' full lineups, but in any case please try a test game with your own nation. This was just a copy/paste job and everything looked ok to me but it never hurts to have someone double check things.

[Valerius]

Another reminder: when designing your pretenders you'll want both CBM 1.92 and the game mod active.

I'm going to wait a bit to see if there are any errors in the game mod before uploading it to the server and creating the game.

[Squirrelloid]

make sure you load CBM first, as your pretender options will be vanilla versions otherwise.

[Valerius]

It appears everyone has downloaded the game mod and since I haven't heard of any problems with it I went ahead and setup the game on the llamaserver.

[Lung Drago]

I am soooo excited how my pretender design will work out ^^:re:

[P3D]

I could not do a trial run on Fivelands.
The map file is restricted to land nations only. An undersired consequence is that any new mod nations have to be explicitly allowed in the map file.

[Korwin]

Are there water provinces? Since some of our nations have aquatic troops and/or comanders.

[Jiggymike]

Valerius, can you please send me a PM letting me know if I completely screwed up by not taking my Yellow nation? K thx. I'm having second thoughts, though I am sticking with my choice of Blue because I have a better plan for them laid out.

[Valerius]

I could not do a trial run on Fivelands.
The map file is restricted to land nations only. An undersired consequence is that any new mod nations have to be explicitly allowed in the map file.

Good catch but it looks like someone ran into this problem before as the version on the server says it is mod nation friendly.


Are there water provinces? Since some of our nations have aquatic troops and/or comanders.

Yes, there are five water provinces. This is a balanced map so all five territories are identical and each includes a water province. I'd say water breathing or sailing abilities are useful but not that big an advantage on this map.


Valerius, can you please send me a PM letting me know if I completely screwed up by not taking my Yellow nation? K thx. I'm having second thoughts, though I am sticking with my choice of Blue because I have a better plan for them laid out.

Sure, PMing you now.

[P3D]

The #allowedplayer command goes to 79 in the original file. So mod nations with respective IDs can be played, but not the ones with IDs in the 90s.

[Valerius]

The #allowedplayer command goes to 79 in the original file. So mod nations with respective IDs can be played, but not the ones with IDs in the 90s.

So I guess the question is whether that is the version on the server or if it's a different one that isn't limited to 79. There's no link to the .map file that was used so I'm not sure.

I could just upload another file or I guess we could start the game and if it fails then I'll upload a revised .map file.

[Korwin]

Something strange happened in my test game.
My half-quasi-dragon mages can fly underwater???

[Valerius]

It looks like they can fly in underwater combat but this appears to be a feature of the unit. I tested this in a vanilla game and they had the same ability.

[Jiggymike]

Looks like some pretenders are in already. I just have to do a little testing and I should be good to go later today, been a busy week/weekend.

[Jiggymike]

Game is on, FYI. After seeing the size of the map I am not feeling good about my strat.

[Valerius]

Have fun everyone! I look forward to hearing how your nations pan out.

Korwin, I've been thinking a bit more about flight underwater and the one other unit I can recall seeing this behavior on is horrors. I wonder if the combination of aquatic/amphibious and flight (native abilities, not through magic items) is what does it? Maybe I'll run some tests to see.

[Squirrelloid]

Underwater flying is tied to stormflight + something iirc. Its kinda weird.

[Korwin]

@P3D
You do know, that if you are last you could make your next turn a few minutes after the last?
Just asking, there should'nt be a need for extensive diplomacy at this point, so no reason to wait... Or?

Hope I dont sound tooo impatient :D

[Lung Drago]

EDIT: Woops, different thread. OK, let me think of something constructive to say....eeeeeerm....

Yes, I did have one question: Since this is a balanced map, are there any..well how to call it, preset borders in mind, or are all provinces first come, first serve? The way weak independent armies unfold, I might be barging into someones capitol sooner than I would like :D

[Korwin]

As long as nobody takes mine, its first come first served.
What do you mean? That sounds selfish? Really? :D

[Squirrelloid]

Preset borders? Boring. That's even more boring than enforced diplomacy.

[Lung Drago]

Preset borders? Boring. That's even more boring than enforced diplomacy.

I don't like binding diplomacy either. Well, the only exception would be the slight difference between a NAP and a NAP-3. There's no point in trying for and feeling successful because of signing a NAP-3 when it ends up being a mere NAP anyway, if you know what I mean.

[Valerius]

Underwater flying is tied to stormflight + something iirc. Its kinda weird.

Very interesting, I didn't think of that since I was only considering abilities that were visible in the game. Maybe I'll try modding different abilities onto one of Caelum's commanders until I get it to work.

Yes, I did have one question: Since this is a balanced map, are there any..well how to call it, preset borders in mind, or are all provinces first come, first serve? The way weak independent armies unfold, I might be barging into someones capitol sooner than I would like :D

Yes, it's always first come, first served. Of course the person who's provinces you're taking may see it differently. I think on this map each nation's provinces are more subjective than Sixlands, where each group of provinces has a different color. On that map I assume if I take another nation's provinces that I'm asking for war. And I know if they take mine that it's war. ;)

[Jiggymike]

I have sort of a set order that I am planning on taking provinces in that should result in the longest period of time possible before running into conflict. However, I have no way of knowing whether my neighbors have the same idea :rolleyes:

[Valerius]

In case anyone missed it, please be aware that the pentagram in the middle of the map connects provinces - so you have access to more nations than just your direct neighbors.

[Korwin]

So Greia is allready in posession of a fifth of the pentragramm.

[Lung Drago]

So Greia is allready in posession of a fifth of the pentragramm.

Oh my god, and I was wondering why those provinces are circles :D Didn't occur to me they could be neighboring. Gosh, thanks for that note! :D

[Korwin]

So Greia is allready in posession of a fifth of the pentragramm.

Oh my god, and I was wondering why those provinces are circles :D Didn't occur to me they could be neighboring. Gosh, thanks for that note! :D

So do I get that forest province? As small appreciation?

Edit: Nevermind, got your PN and answered you.

[Jiggymike]

Guys the server is having some type of problem. I'm trying to submit turn 8, which is not due yet and still says so on the llamaserver. However, when I send it in, I get an e-mail saying that I submitted the wrong turn and it is turn 9. Can we please delay until this gets figured out? Thanks!

It literally changed from turn 8 to turn 9 while I was watching it, with turn 9 being due in a few hours. When I asked for a resend, it sent me turn 9. However, turn 8 wasn't supposed to be due for another few hours so I shouldn't have staled.

OK weird, I checked turn 9 and my last turn was submitted successfully. We just have to make sure it doesn't host turn 9 at 4:54AM GMT.

[Valerius]

The server says it's on turn 9, with only your turn missing. According to the server, turn 8 already hosted with no stales.

Based on the fact that you got your confirmation email I'm guessing the server has your turn but just isn't updating the site to indicate that. I'll go ahead and postpone hosting in case the server is in fact missing your turn but I suspect that once it gets straightened out it will host immediately since all turns will be in.

[Jiggymike]

Yes it looks OK now, with the correct turn due time and everything.

[Korwin]

Anyone beside me who did not get their turn?
Resending the turn worked, ... wtf I'll resend it to all players, so nobody is waiting for their turn in vain.

[Squirrelloid]

Let it be known to the nations of the world that the nation of Moria is without honor. That just one turn after he professed peaceful intentions he ordered an unprovoked attack and at the first opportunity.

While we understand there can be no lasting peace, such two-faced diplomacy deserves our scorn. Trust no word from teh mouth of Moria, for that mouth carries no truth and only the most vicious of lies.

[Jiggymike]

We do not deny the claim of Yelloea. Our only statement of defense is that when we opened negotiations, we had no intention of attacking and merely wanted to delineate our borders. However, after reviewing the available information, we decided that Yelloea was a threat to all nations, including ourselves, and that the most prudent course of action would be to attack with a small force we had hidden in one of his provinces. Lycus, the Prophet of Moria, regrets going back on his word, an act we consider to be gravely wrong. We cannot expect other nations to trust us after this incident, but our number one concern is our survival, and we felt that Yelloea's threat to this was greater than our need to keep our word.

[Squirrelloid]

We do not deny the claim of Yelloea. Our only statement of defense is that when we opened negotiations, we had no intention of attacking and merely wanted to delineate our borders. However, after reviewing the available information, we decided that Yelloea was a threat to all nations, including ourselves, and that the most prudent course of action would be to attack with a small force we had hidden in one of his provinces. Lycus, the Prophet of Moria, regrets going back on his word, an act we consider to be gravely wrong. We cannot expect other nations to trust us after this incident, but our number one concern is our survival, and we felt that Yelloea's threat to this was greater than our need to keep our word.

He attempts to defend his actions yet condemns himself from his own mouth. Despite intending to 'honor' his words, he hid a hostile force inside my territory - something that would be considered an act of war if discovered. This was no mere scouting force. It was a war party.

Clearly these deeds were planned from the start, for he moved military forces past my borders even while he was professing his good intentions. Thus even his defense is revealed as lies.

[Jiggymike]

We have nothing left to say then. Whether intentional or not, Moria is guilty of deceit and understand if we are not dealt with by other nations.

[Squirrelloid]

So, it looks like there's a two person alliance against me on turn 10. I am sure it is in no one else's interest to let Redka conquer me. Reheim? Grerus? Will neither of you speak with me? Or will you hand the game to Redka already?

[Squirrelloid]

1v3? As of turn 9? Really? Did you guys arrange this before the game even started or something? Very sporting of you.

Reheim, are you also in on it, or are you going to sit around and be next when they get through with me. Assuming they actually can finish me.

[Korwin]

Well your Research graph looks really scary, its those starets...

[Jiggymike]

We didn't plan it before the game, but we might as well have. Can you honestly say that if you were in any one of our shoes you would not have looked at that research disparity and realized that no one would have a chance against you if you were allowed to get going? It doesn't feel good and it's certainly NOT sporting but we need to do what is necessary to help ourselves survive and hopefully win. I only regret sending you that message before looking at the score graphs; if you want to lament them, you have every right to.

[Squirrelloid]

And what did you take as your pretender? A bless chassis? Great scales? Scary comes in multiple flavors. Mine is obviously doing research.

You seem to have chosen scales. So you're going to pass me in research at some point, its a matter of time. At least you would have if you hadn't committed many hundreds of gold to an army that has failed you. I think you've mistaken early research advantage for something that means I'm dominating. You should be looking at growth in RPs and rate of fort production. The first I will certainly start lagging in since i can't keep up in the latter.

In your shoes, I would have noticed yellow is obviously the scariest person to attack early, and chosen *anyone but*. You think I didn't research combat magic first thing?

Tell me, how exactly do you expect to beat me when your armies can't even beat my PD and modest army while my mages stay home?

[Korwin]

Allmost forgot, I am assuming we dont want to use/recruit free units/commanders. ( I got an 0 Gold, 1 Res. Ettin Commander ).
Obviously I did'nt recruit him. Since its an bug.

Just wanted to let you all see, how noble I am.

--
Reheim

[elmokki]

That's a CBM1.92 bug

[Lung Drago]

To be perfectly honest, I find myself divided.
It's true I feel uneasy and that something has to be done, yet I dislike ganging up on someone just because of that. Myself, I kinda expected the Starets to shine in the research graph; though it surprised me anyway how Yellow propelled himself forward. I mean none of us is stupid, all that's left is some boosters and/or little bit of gem income and we can be out-teched instantly. No great scales will help us here, and a bless is also at it's best in early and mid game only. Scales won't help at this moment as you say since they kick in much later and as you himself hint at at present time you can pick up a target for annihilation anytime. To summarize it, your strategy can kick itself up at a later time too. So, it's kind of understandable the situation provoked a reaction.

So, what will I do in the end? I think nothing. I'd like to keep the province I conquered just now, since it follows a rule "2 provinces to capitol" which I find myself fair (and would make the conditions for NAP anyway) and won't engage any further. This conflict is in the end very pointless as erasing Yellow from the map is not a solution in my opinion anyway. It's only being too trigger happy. Shame on me I didn't realize this a little bit earlier, I suppose. This only kills the enjoyment for Squirrelloid and I can be scaring away in a corner that my maenad hordes will provoke a game-wide attack on me too. Guilty of empathy.

[Jiggymike]

I'm just trying to give my line of reasoning, and even if it doesn't work out-so far I have no answer for your sacreds-I still think the move can be justified. My strategy was certainly NOT to get into an early conflict and meant to develop slowly, but I didn't do a good job of taking the size of the map into account. I could have possibly overtaken your research advantage over time with my scales, but at that point I also could have been dead if you or someone else decided to attack me. I knew that I had no chance against you one-on-one (and wouldn't for some time, if ever) but that others would also be concerned with your massive research advantage and be willing to attack you.

Was my attack well-planned? No, it was reactionary and perhaps largely due to my noobishness and lack of understanding of how games develop (I've only played a few multiplayer games and when I've tried a slower moving strategy I've tended to get swallowed up). I wasn't prepared to go up against anything stronger than indies and I may still not be. I just think that your research advantage would have made it nearly impossible for someone to beat you one on one, not to mention your skill and experience.

Anyway I'm not trying to get into an argument about it, just to tell you my thought process. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, and the whole 'ganging up on someone early' does feel kind of gross. At the same time, you seem to be able to hold your own pretty well so far...

[Groundworm]

One of the elements to doing well in Dominions that I've learned is this: don't attack someone because you feel you have to- attack someone because you can beat them. If it's reached the point where you're attacking someone because they're significantly more powerful or threatening than you, chances are you're in a war you won't win. If, on the other hand, you can maneuver things such that you're dominant over one of your neighbors, then is the time to attack in order to increase your power.

It's working things out to your advantage that's the hard part.

[Valerius]

It's that HoF ranking - it just makes people think "must kill him now". That was my thinking with Zeldor in Momentum3. I felt kind of bad about being the third to attack him but he just wouldn't die. Course that didn't work out so well for me as I ended up being the next target - live by the dogpile, die by the dogpile. :p

[Squirrelloid]

Send moar Burning Ones. Mmm... spicy.

[Valerius]

You probably won't need the time yet, but I've switched the hosting interval to 48 hours.

[P3D]

Send moar Burning Ones. Mmm... spicy.

I don't understand how could you defend your capital with the army starting in the next province? If they move to your castle, they are supposed to be in the castle, besieged.

[Squirrelloid]

Send moar Burning Ones. Mmm... spicy.

I don't understand how could you defend your capital with the army starting in the next province? If they move to your castle, they are supposed to be in the castle, besieged.

Move and patrol. That's what that order exists for.

... You've been playing awhile. You sure you aren't just trolling me about not knowing that?

[P3D]

I did not know that command even existed. How did I miss it in the manual, I have no idea. So I got pwned.

[Korwin]

Redka is sieging a fort of Moria. Moria’s armies are marching into Redka’s territory. Yelloea booted Redka out of his part of the world.

@Grerus, I’m a little worried about your army beside my fort. Hope your intentions are peaceful.

Interesting times.

--
Reheim

[Jiggymike]

Redka is sieging a fort of Moria. Moria’s armies are marching into Redka’s territory. Yelloea booted Redka out of his part of the world.

@Grerus, I’m a little worried about your army beside my fort. Hope your intentions are peaceful.

Interesting times.

--
Reheim

Warring with Yelloea was not really achieving anything for me so we decided to attack Redka to our mutual benefit. At this point Moria is just a thematic nation of double-crossing lizards and snakes. Also Red's sieging army of Burning Ones was slaughtered by a horde of undead, and while the hoard was also destroyed in the battle, they are easily called again.

[Korwin]

I saw that.
Not shure but Yelloweas Zmey took a province from you?

[Jiggymike]

Part of our arrangement, I had taken it from him earlier and conceded it back.

[Jiggymike]

Can we please postpone hosting for at least 24 hours? I'll be out of town this weekend and don't have my laptop. Thank you!

[Valerius]

Sure, I added 48 hours just in case it's needed.

[Squirrelloid]

Valerius, if you see this in time, can you add some time before hosting?

Llamaserver's mail server is unavailable, my e-mail keeps getting returned as undelivered. "Mail delivery failed: Returning message to sender". Needless to say, I cannot submit a turn.

[Valerius]

I made two attempts to add 12 hours to hosting. The server isn't updating but the second attempt indicated the new hosting time would be 24 hours from now so hopefully it will postpone hosting or just process the outstanding turns before hosting.

[Jiggymike]

Sent a chaffy commander to the arena just to check out the proceedings and instead he came back thuggin'

[Jiggymike]

Anyone interested in water gems? I am trying to get either fire or earth in return. I also have an abundance of gold for trade, willing to buy forged items or gems.

[Korwin]

WTF. would it be really too much, to win some Army fights now and then?
BTW. when did you took back this province? I was shure, I was attacking Redka.
Did you teleport your army in, or what?

*grumble*

--
Reheim

[Squirrelloid]

no teleporting, i just apparently moved first, and there was no battle with Redka - he built no PD - so there was no other battle to see.

I had no idea you were going to attack that province. When I PM you with the provinces i feel entitled to end up with after a war is over and towards which end I am willing to expend troops and time, and receive no response, my assumption is that my claim has been acknowledged and accepted and that I wouldn't have to compete with anyone for the province.

[Korwin]

Ah no problem, its only my loosing every big battle so far. I wonder how I'm still alive...

[Squirrelloid]

Glorious Victory!

The forces of Yellowea have taken the fight to the enemy and defeated his army in the field before the gates of his citadel! The cowardly reds broke and ran before our might, and the retreating were cut down with no place to find sanctuary. None were spared.

The world can rest easy knowing the red menace is quarantined and soon to be eradicated.

[Korwin]

A messenger from Grerus arrived with an declaration of war. I suppose his armies will be on my border. Take some parts of Grerus while you still can!

[Valerius]

In a couple of turns we'll be switching to 72 hour hosting but if extra time is needed over the holidays let me know.

[Jiggymike]

Yes, I'd like to take an extended break over the holidays, I will be out of town and have visitors alternatively. Postponing from now until January 3rd would be ideal, thanks. Alternatively you can find a sub for me, I am fairly checked out of this game and mostly just log in long enough to recruit more mages.

[Valerius]

I take it everyone else is ok with continuing to play over the holidays. If there are no objections, I can temp sub for Jiggymike until Jan. 3. It sounds like he doesn't have any wars going on and turns should be easy.

[Jiggymike]

I take it everyone else is ok with continuing to play over the holidays. If there are no objections, I can temp sub for Jiggymike until Jan. 3. It sounds like he doesn't have any wars going on and turns should be easy.

That sounds great to me, thanks. Feel free to make any adjustments you see fit with regards to forging, ritual spells, recruiting.

[Valerius]

Jiggymike doesn't have time to continue leading Moria so unless there are objections I will be taking over the position permanently. It is my understanding that Moria doesn't have any NAPs.

[Squirrelloid]

Go a week without checking this forum and look what I miss.

Jiggymike stabbed me in the back early, so that's what my enigmatic message for the turn was referring to =P

Could you add 12h to the current turn, just in case? I think I'll be able to get to it tomorrow morning..., but just in case.

[Valerius]

I just figured you meant it was about time for us to fight again. :p There was a stretch where it seemed we were facing off every game. I'm at a bit of loss without glamoured thugs to turn to but I'll have to make do with these stupid witch kings.

Hosting has been postponed by 24 hours.

[Valerius]

Talk about bad timing: I got two free forts this turn, one from a random event, the other from site searching. At least in one province I had a handful of troops but in the other I had no troops so your single zmey has already breached the walls. :doh:

[Squirrelloid]

Talk about bad timing: I got two free forts this turn, one from a random event, the other from site searching. At least in one province I had a handful of troops but in the other I had no troops so your single zmey has already breached the walls. :doh:

Talk about bad timing, you got free forts in 2 of the 3 provinces in my initial strike!

[Korwin]

Whats up?
http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAction.cgi?game=Randomocalypse&action=showstales
Half the players stalled?

Myself I would be ready to call it quit and declare Squirreloid winner...

[Valerius]

Sorry about that. I postponed hosting and then completely forgot about the game. RL has been busy so I haven't been at all focused on Dominions.

If you are ok with declaring Squirrelloid the winner I certainly have no objections. If I were spending more time on turns (when I actually submit them ;)) I could slow him down but I'd still lose. And given how he managed to survive that 3 vs 1 early on I'd say he deserves the win.

[Valerius]

Ok, since Korwin and I concede and Lung Drago appears to be MIA I am declaring Squirrelloid the winner. Somewhat of an anticlimactic ending but there was definitely some excitement early on with the 3 vs 1 dogpile. Thanks everyone for playing and congratulations to Squirrelloid!