25% autoroute question

[Olm]

So if in a battle only 25% of my troops are left my army routes.
Is that always determined from the initial count of units?
Or would a mage casting swarm the first battle-turn route after 75% of the swarm is dead?

[Olm]

Tested it myself, summoned units don't count.
Sorry for a stupid question I could answer myself.

[Corinthian]

Actually, the limit is 25% of hitpoints left. Not units. You could theoretically autorout without having lost a single unit. Theoretically.

However the HP limit is the amount of HP your units had at the beginning of the battle so as long as you keep summoning soulless or other chaff you can lose almost all of your forces without autorouting. You just need to replace the HP you lose.

Note, this trick dont work with units that was summoned with the turn-0 one-battle-spell command items. Like the wraith crown or bottles of living water.

[Squirrelloid]

Not actually theoretical. Take a dragon pretender into combat by himself in dragon form. Give him change shape as his first order. Watch him auto-route. This actually does impact what you can do with Dragon pretenders.

[Knai]

Not actually theoretical. Take a dragon pretender into combat by himself in dragon form. Give him change shape as his first order. Watch him auto-route. This actually does impact what you can do with Dragon pretenders.

Plus, this happens all the time with SCs in general. Most of the time, it is pretty welcome - though the autoroute is obnoxious when it affects anyone who has Phoenix Pyre up, or automatically shifts form upon death.

[JonBrave]

It's "rout" not "route" in any language. I saw the thread Title and couldn't understand how you were building roads in Dom...

[Olm]

Sorry, for that mistake.
In my language its neither route nor rout.

An autoroute function would be great by the way.

[JonBrave]

Sorry, for that mistake.
In my language its neither route nor rout.


So sorry, I wondered about that possibility after I posted. Didn't mean to be rude, your English is great. But between America & England there's often misspelling on that word. Your title just struck me as amusing :)

[Edit: Actually it's just as much the pronunciation of "rout"/"route" :)]

[Olm]

So sorry, I wondered about that possibility after I posted. Didn't mean to be rude, your English is great. But between America & England there's often misspelling on that word. Your title just struck me as amusing :)

[Edit: Actually it's just as much the pronunciation of "rout"/"route" :)]

I'll just take it as a compliment that the idea of me not being a native speaker didn't even come to your mind. :smirk:

[JonBrave]

No, but perhaps I should have noticed your name, "Olm" doesn't sound very English. Sounds more like Vanheim/Helheim to me.... ;)

[Olm]

In fact olm is English :)
It's the same word in German and English, look it up in wikipedia.

[JonBrave]

I didn't doubt it was. But Old English sounding. Not the sort of word we'd still be using these days :)

(And without looking, I'd have to guess you're Scandanavian, or at least North/East European.)

[Olm]

No, as mentioned: German.

And your language does still use the word. It's a small, blind amphibian creature with lungs and gills.

[JonBrave]

German counts as Northern/Eastern European :)

As for "olm" being an English word. Well, I stand corrected! But I'm pretty good at English and I have never heard of an olm!! If anyone keeps them as pets, please let us know...

[Corinthian]

You should play Agartha more JonBrave. They get olms both as a pretender choice and as heroes.

...Yea, Agartha is not a very powerful nation in vanilla.

[Olm]

Yes, there is the Giant Olm pretender! I should definitely choose him in one of my next games.

[earcaraxe]

do blood slaves count in the starting hp sum?

[Corinthian]

No. They count as neutral I think.

[Rookierookie]

With regards to spelling, if I got a penny every time somebody mixes up "morale" and "moral", I could probably bail out America's debt.

[Squirrelloid]

do blood slaves count in the starting hp sum?

Yes they do.

I have autorouted from a single blood mage casting blood spells before.

[JonBrave]

You should play Agartha more JonBrave. They get olms both as a pretender choice and as heroes.

...Yea, Agartha is not a very powerful nation in vanilla.

Oh! Are you saying they actually use a word of "olm"? I had truly never heard of it.

[Knai]

You should play Agartha more JonBrave. They get olms both as a pretender choice and as heroes.

...Yea, Agartha is not a very powerful nation in vanilla.

Oh! Are you saying they actually use a word of "olm"? I had truly never heard of it.

Yes. The Ancient Olm is an SC pretender chassis they get, the heroes are lighter thugs. Or rather, the Ancient Olm is a low grade imitation SC wannabe, and the heroes are sacks of HP.

[Starbelly Geek]

Yes. The Ancient Olm is an SC pretender chassis they get, the heroes are lighter thugs. Or rather, the Ancient Olm is a low grade imitation SC wannabe, and the heroes are sacks of HP.

The heroes are free mages! That are free and don't require a turn of fort time to hire! Also they don't cost anything to get! And Deepthought rocks on toast.

The Ageless Olm pretender's not too hard to make into a moderate rainbow. Never occurred to me to try to use it as an SC. Seems like there are much better options available to Agartha for that.

[Knai]

Yes. The Ancient Olm is an SC pretender chassis they get, the heroes are lighter thugs. Or rather, the Ancient Olm is a low grade imitation SC wannabe, and the heroes are sacks of HP.

The heroes are free mages! That are free and don't require a turn of fort time to hire! Also they don't cost anything to get! And Deepthought rocks on toast.

The Ageless Olm pretender's not too hard to make into a moderate rainbow. Never occurred to me to try to use it as an SC. Seems like there are much better options available to Agartha for that.

I am clearly remembering wrong. I'd forgotten that they had any magic power at all. Clearly I need to play more Agartha, or maybe just more Agartha that isn't the Golem Cult.

[JonBrave]

The heroes are free mages! That are free and don't require a turn of fort time to hire! Also they don't cost anything to get!


While you happen to mention that (sorry if hijacking thread!): Do you (seem to) get 2 heroes (perhaps on average) per game (I guess I mean random)? What sort of event actually fires them? (Doubtless the answers are in a file, but an answer summarising would be appreciated.)

[Corinthian]

The rate of hero acquirement is based on you luck scales. Or 3% chance of a hero per turn -+1% per luck point. Its not a random event, it is a separate check.

Some nations can get infinite heroes through so called Multi-heroe chassis. Other nations have a limited amount of heroes.

In vanilla some nations have few, or no(?) heroes at all (Patala?). Other nations only have terrible heroes that are little better than indy commanders. (MA Ulm). Lanka is special in that it can actually get units that it can summon as heroes, witch is rather underwhelming.

[Makinus]

Continuing the hijack, who do you think is the best multihero available on the game (Vanilla and CBM)?

[earcaraxe]

i like both the scobreds and the children of anthrax for ma aby because of diversity: access to earth boots and flaming skulls and spectral infantry.

[Squirrelloid]

Marveni's Bloodhenge Druid multihero. Blood access and something like 9 non-priest paths.

[JonBrave]

The rate of hero acquirement is based on you luck scales. Or 3% chance of a hero per turn -+1% per luck point. Its not a random event, it is a separate check.


Ohhhh... :confused:

OK, well I've played quite a few SP random games with various races. I am under the distinct impression that I tended to get either 1 or 2, more pertinently, they were always relatively early in the game; definitely none later on, when I was doing well. Am I plain mad/wrong, how would that gell with what you say?

[Starbelly Geek]

What nations have you played? Some don't have any or very many heroes. Also, if you're not playing with mods, that can limit the number of heroes.

[JonBrave]

Umm, a bit of each, I think.

Earlier, Corinthian said:
The rate of hero acquirement is based on you luck scales. Or 3% chance of a hero per turn -+1% per luck point. Its not a random event, it is a separate check.

So I thought that meant you'd get a smattering throughout the game, whoever you were, given not too much misfortune.

But are you saying, each nation can only have so-many heroes, so once you've had them (earlier in game), you don't get any more later??

[Edit: I only play vanilla, SP]

[thejeff]

The rate of hero acquirement is based on you luck scales. Or 3% chance of a hero per turn -+1% per luck point. Its not a random event, it is a separate check.


Ohhhh... :confused:

OK, well I've played quite a few SP random games with various races. I am under the distinct impression that I tended to get either 1 or 2, more pertinently, they were always relatively early in the game; definitely none later on, when I was doing well. Am I plain mad/wrong, how would that gell with what you say?

Vanilla or CBM?

Many nations have less heroes in vanilla. Few have multi-heroes.

Except for the multi-heroes, you will only get each hero once, so it's quite possible to use your heroes up early in the game.


Edit: If you want to play around with heroes without going over to CBM, the Worthy Heroes part of CBM started out as a separate mod and may still work by itself.

[sansanjuan]

Sort of on topic...

I've always wondered if a routing squad immediately counts as a drop to zero HP (all units) against the rest of the army. Also... if they do count as zero does it happen the second they rout or when they leave the field.

-ssj

[Starbelly Geek]

I've always wondered if a routing squad immediately counts as a drop to zero HP (all units) against the rest of the army. Also... if they do count as zero does it happen the second they rout or when they leave the field.

I'm pretty sure they don't count as gone against the total army HP until they're off the field. I recently had an SP battle with four tricked out indy shambler chiefs leading a passle of Atlantean militia and a handful of shamblers. All of the troops routed during the combat, along with most of the chiefs, but two chiefs remained to win the battle for me despite having essentially normal morale. They just never failed the check and weren't forced to auto-rout, and their equipment was enough to keep them up and fighting long enough to rout the enemy (indy tritons and triton troopers - may have killed the enemy commanders).

[el cid]

Back to the autorout question.

Can Master enslave cause autorout? Do the units enslaved count as HP loss by the enemy?

[Soyweiser]

Interesting question, I don't know.

[Corinthian]

The answer is yes. Its a hilarious tactic against people that relies on vine men or mankins. Both have bad/terrible MR and are magic beings and are thus vulnerable to arcane domination. In one battle I managed to steal 90% of the enemy troops causing an auto rout on turn 1 for the enemy. Most of the enemy mages were killed by their own bodyguards before they managed to get away.:D