MP: New Noob Game/Inexperienced. EA - NOOBAPHOBIA Filled

[mattyburn7]

Cheers,
Got my first taste of MP action this week and want to organize an EA game for Noobs or inexerpienced MP players. This is my first attempt at organizing so bear with me and any questions/advice appreciated.

Game parameters:
Players: 10 (if we get a lot more interest, perhaps we'll welcome and switch to larger map)

Map: Plane of Rusty Nails v4
ERA: EA
Mods: CBM 1.92
Magic site freq: 50
Renaming On
Graph On
Hall of Fame 15
Everything else set as default
Turn length: Initially 30h/turn. Will expand in later game
Diplomacy: Anything goes
Winner: Last man, woman or beast standing or on agreement of remaining survivors.
Game exploits are forbidden (Bogus orders, Troops blocking, lab filling and the recruitment of 0g Ettin)

Planning on hosting the Game on llamaserver


First in gets their pick of Nation. I'm going with Sauromatia

Looking forward!

mattyburn7 - Sauromatia
revenant2 - Ermor
Flop - Tien Ch'i
Holeydooley - Ulm
Iron Duke - Mictlan
Szumo - C'tis
curtadams - Hellheim
Keithz - Yomi
Torgon - Fomoria
DarkAvenger211 - Hinnom

[revenant2]

Thanks for setting this up.

I'd love to crack some skulls with Ermor. Sign me up :)

[Szumo]

What's your criteria for "inexperienced"? :)

[Flop]

I would like to play, please. I'd prefer Tien Ch'i, if possible.

I've only played one other mp game (also as Tien Ch'i), and was killed off rather early. I never missed a turn, though.

I know what two of the exploits you mention are, but could you please explain troops blocking and recruitment of 0g Ettin? Mainly out of curiosity, I suppose, but I'd hate to inadvertently use one of them.

edit: also, is there a list of crafting and spell requirements available, for CBM 1.92? I kind of screwed up my crafting strategy in my last game, by going by the vanilla requirements.

[mattyburn7]

Flop: Got you in for Tien Ch'i.
Re Ettin: There is a site that allows you to recruit them for 0 gold and 1 resource. Its a bug.
For Troop blocking:
If you send a scout against an army there is a 50% chance the scout block the entire army.
This move is forbidden. (i say scout but it can be a commander, a diseased mage ...)

Unfortunately I don't have a list for CBM 1.92. I'm not sure if one exists. If I come across anything I'll add a link in this thread. I'll see what I can dig up.

[mattyburn7]

Good Question Szumo. I don't have a hard rule on that. I'm thinking Noob or a handful of MP games max. However use your best judgment. If you feel like you've got enough experience that playing with MP noobs will be like playing the AI, then probably shouldn't join. Otherwise. Welcome aboard!

[Flop]

Flop: Got you in for Tien Ch'i.
Re Ettin: There is a site that allows you to recruit them for 0 gold and 1 resource. Its a bug.
For Troop blocking:
If you send a scout against an army there is a 50% chance the scout block the entire army.
This move is forbidden. (i say scout but it can be a commander, a diseased mage ...)

Unfortunately I don't have a list for CBM 1.92. I'm not sure if one exists. If I come across anything I'll add a link in this thread. I'll see what I can dig up.

Alright, so just to be clear, it's not allowed to attack any province with a single character? Or is it just any province with an army in it?

Also, I just noticed that the CBM 1.92 mod actually comes with a pdf forging reference, which should prove immensely helpful. The spell reference isn't nearly as important, since that information is available in-game.

[mattyburn7]

I would say attacking an army with a single character with the sole attempt of blocking it as an exploit.

Thanks for the info on CBM!

[HoleyDooley]

Ulm please.

[Iron Duke]

I'm in, will decide on a nation soon.

[mattyburn7]

Sounds good. Got you in. 5 down. 5 to go!!

[Szumo]

I'd like to join as C'tis then.

[mattyburn7]

Cool. You're in!

[KeithZ]

Please count me in. I'd like to play Yomi

[curtadams]

Hellheim.

So how many troops do you have to send in for a block not to count as an exploit? Five? Ten? Twenty? The computer AI does it all the time with about 10-20.

[DarkAvenger211]

It's been a while since I played a game. I'd like to join in as Yomi

[Iron Duke]

Never played Mictlan in mp. Perhaps now is the time...

[Torgon]

Playing in another game at the moment, but I'm about to go down so I think I can take on another. I'll take Fomoria.

[mattyburn7]

Cool. We've got all 10 players. Darkavenger211 grabbed Yomi so just going to wait on him to pick a new nation. I'll be out most of the rest of the weekend. So we should be good to get started by early next week. Will post back here soon.

Thanks!

regarding blocking: Let's keep it simple...single unit.

[DarkAvenger211]

Alrighty I'll pick Hinnom then

[mattyburn7]

Hinnom it is!

Ok. We've got 10.

1 last question for the players. I originally said the map would be plane of Rusty Nails. I was thinking of switching to something larger - Cradle of Dominion.

Any objections to this?
If there are no objections I will switch the map and have the game setup on Monday.

If there are objections that is ok and we'll go with original post.

Either way game will be setup Monday and Game name will be Noobaphobia.

Have fun!!!

[Flop]

I'd actually prefer Cradle of Dominions for 3 reasons: It doesn't wrap around (which I prefer), it looks nicer, I lost my last game in the Plane of Rusty Nails (although an earlier version).

[curtadams]

I would prefer Plane of Rusty Nails. 15 provinces/players is a good number, while the endgame on a 221 province map like Cradle of Dominion is pretty onerous. Also, for MP I prefer wraparound for fairer starts.

[DarkAvenger211]

Are we doing the email server. Or in game server?

[Torgon]

I'd prefer plains as well. Having one of the corners in Cradle seems to be a pretty big starting bonus.

[Szumo]

I'm okay with Cradle.

[KeithZ]

I'd prefer Plane of Rusty Nails. I like Cradle but it just seems to be a little too big for ten players.

[mattyburn7]

ok. Plane of Rusty Nails it is.

We are using llamaserver. Below is link to the list of games on the server and on this link is a link to FAQ in case anyone has any or feel free to post here.

Noobaphobia has been created on the server so feel free to create and send in Pretenders.

http://www.llamaserver.net/index.cgi

[DarkAvenger211]

Ok I accidentally uploaded my Yomi pretender instead of the other one. Can you get it deleted?

Sorry about that

[mattyburn7]

DarkAvenger: He's deleted. no problem.

[Torgon]

Wow. Just looked at the nation list. We really like death magic don't we. I think we managed to pick every single death power of EA>

[mattyburn7]

Easier to destroy than create!

[DarkAvenger211]

Did we start it yet?

[revenant2]

Did we start it yet?

It looks like we're waiting on one more pretender:

Iron Duke - Mictlan

[mattyburn7]

Yep. That's the last one. Then we are ready.

[Iron Duke]

OUCH! I was stupid and sent the pretender hastily with wrong mods on, better indies and whatnot. Can we do it one more time? I am really sorry.

[Iron Duke]

I mean, delete mine and I'll send it again.

[mattyburn7]

k. Its deleted!

[mattyburn7]

Game is started. Have fun!

[Flop]

Does anyone know what the crown icon in some regions mean?

[Szumo]

Provinces with crown icon are worth Victory Points. This doesn't matter all with default victory conditions.

Btw, C'tis would like to buy a few Owl Quills in the first year. Contact me if you're willing to forge them.

[Flop]

Cool, thanks.

[Flop]

It seems Sauromatia is having a pretty rough start. Were you hit by a bad event?

I was wondering if anyone would be interested in comparing notes, at this point, in the interest of all of us learning something (since it's a noob game)? I'm only talking about public information which can be gleaned from the statistics screens, not giving anything away.

[Szumo]

Sure :) Conclusions i see from the scores so far:
* Sauromatia got hit by a barbarian attack or something like that on first turn. Propably means high misfortune scales and a lot of bad luck
* C'tis (me), Yomi and Helheim have awake pretenders. If others also have awake pretenders, they propably don't have magic as only us 2 researched on the first turn.
(Both mine and Helheim's gods are fighting ones, as can be seen in Hall of Fame).
* After turn 2, everyone except me and Sauromatia took 1 province. Only I took 2. This and the research chart suggests Yomi's pretender is not a fighting one, at least without researching spells or forging equipment.
* Hall of Fame shows I've got the mercs. Someone propably should have bidded higher ;)
* Helheim has high dominion score and awake pretender. Pity their neighbours ;)
* Ulm and Mictlan took above average losses attacking last turn.
* Ulm and Fomoria were overtaxing/patrolling first turn.
* Ermor has good scales (high income)

[mattyburn7]

Very insightful and probably 100% accurate. Thanks for the analysis. That is helpful!

[Flop]

Thanks. That's some good stuff. I've reached most of those conclusions myself, as well, although I disagree with some:

I'd say that besides Ulm and Fomoria, Helheim and Yomi were also overtaxing/patrolling first turn. Since Ermor has a very high stable income, I'm guessing he has at least +3 order, and probably production and growth scales, as well.

I agree that C'tis and Yomi must have awake pretenders. Furthermore, since C'tis took 2 provinces on turn 3, I'm guessing he has a combat pretender (that's not certain, though, and if he does, it's likely that it's still too vulnerable for him to risk it on a blind attack). Furthermore, going by the dominion increases, I thnk that Ermor, Helheim, Hinnom and possibly Ulm, have awake pretenders. I'd like to hear your reasoning for saying Helheim, though.

Looking at Ulm's available researchers, I think that he has 3 magic scales. Doing the same with Sauromatia and Hinnom, I'm thinking 0 magic scales for them (might be wrong about Hinnom).

I had some ideas about Yomi's pretender, based on the research, but I'm not sure how research bonuses from magic paths work. Is it just +1 research for each point in any path, or what?

[Szumo]

About research: Yes, AFAIK it's base value (based on unit type) + 1 per each magic path point.
Helheim's god is in Hall of Fame - that's as obvious hint as it gets :)
Magic +3 for Ulm sounds risky, as their troops have low MR. Could be a weakness if it's true.

[Flop]

Helheim's god is in Hall of Fame - that's as obvious hint as it gets :)

Ha! I missed that, but yeah, that's a good hint. :)

Magic +3 for Ulm sounds risky, as their troops have low MR. Could be a weakness if it's true.

Actually, since any magic path gives +1 research, it's more likely that they only have 1 magic scale, since that would give them a 50% chance of getting the 8 research they currently have, on the best researcher they can recruit. I guess my other magic scales notes should be taken with a grain of salt. :)

[Torgon]

Sure :) Conclusions i see from the scores so far:
* Sauromatia got hit by a barbarian attack or something like that on first turn. Propably means high misfortune scales and a lot of bad luck
* C'tis (me), Yomi and Helheim have awake pretenders. If others also have awake pretenders, they propably don't have magic as only us 2 researched on the first turn.
(Both mine and Helheim's gods are fighting ones, as can be seen in Hall of Fame).
* After turn 2, everyone except me and Sauromatia took 1 province. Only I took 2. This and the research chart suggests Yomi's pretender is not a fighting one, at least without researching spells or forging equipment.
* Hall of Fame shows I've got the mercs. Someone propably should have bidded higher ;)
* Helheim has high dominion score and awake pretender. Pity their neighbours ;)
* Ulm and Mictlan took above average losses attacking last turn.
* Ulm and Fomoria were overtaxing/patrolling first turn.
* Ermor has good scales (high income)

Me thinks Szumo is not so new to this game. Also Szumo has just successfully attacked my capital with his pretender. Surprise attack while we were negotiating a trade (I offered to forge him some owl quils).

It is a Manticore with A6. I'm probably going down, but I'm going to remain in the game as long as possible. Before I go down, I will give all the gems and gold I have saved to the person who makes his life the most miserable.

I am in province 74. He has 92 and 82 with capital most likely in 99.

[Szumo]

Me thinks Szumo is not so new to this game. Also Szumo has just successfully attacked my capital with his pretender. Surprise attack while we were negotiating a trade (I offered to forge him some owl quils).

It is a Manticore with A6. I'm probably going down, but I'm going to remain in the game as long as possible. Before I go down, I will give all the gems and gold I have saved to the person who makes his life the most miserable.

I am in province 74. He has 92 and 82 with capital most likely in 99.

I've finished 5 dom3 multiplayer games some years ago, none of them with current generation of CBM, then had a long break playing. Hardly makes me a veteran - and I did ask for mattyburn7 for definition of inexpierenced MP player, which i believe i fit.

I understand you're frustrated - I wasn't happy when i found out there are just 2 provinces between our capitals, as I would rather conquer more neutral provinces before starting an early war which is a big risk, but we're simply too close.

I do not apprieciate your attempt to damage my reputation by implying that I somehow attacked you dishonourably. You contacted me asking what i was willing to offer for the owl quills, i replied, and that's all - and it happened _before we even met_! After we met, i decided further talks were pointless. I did not in any way promise, suggest or imply that I would not attack you.

You have every right to fight back as hard as you can, including asking for help, offering intel/gems/whatever, but right now your pleas come off a bit like desperate whining :), while your situation is not IMO desperate. I'd suggest you try to keep your dignity.

And to the rest: C'tis is willing to forge friendly relationships with other of it's neighbours (assuming they're not that close ;) ), however anyone helping Fomoria will be dealt with harshly :)

[curtadams]

I'd say having a strong combat pretender in your capital on turn 5 is a pretty desperate situation. Little income and no recruitment of nationals makes it virtually impossible to build much of an army, and a Manticora is a hard one to beat. They tend to collect afflictions in big battles but they still win.

[Flop]

It looks like something is wrong with llamaserver. It hasn't updated since 14:16, and it hasn't acknowledged the file I sent it, about 3 hours ago. Does anybody know if this is common?

[Szumo]

It's not acknowledging my turn either :(

[mattyburn7]

Same here..bummer.

[Torgon]

Me thinks Szumo is not so new to this game. Also Szumo has just successfully attacked my capital with his pretender. Surprise attack while we were negotiating a trade (I offered to forge him some owl quils).

It is a Manticore with A6. I'm probably going down, but I'm going to remain in the game as long as possible. Before I go down, I will give all the gems and gold I have saved to the person who makes his life the most miserable.

I am in province 74. He has 92 and 82 with capital most likely in 99.

I've finished 5 dom3 multiplayer games some years ago, none of them with current generation of CBM, then had a long break playing. Hardly makes me a veteran - and I did ask for mattyburn7 for definition of inexpierenced MP player, which i believe i fit.

I understand you're frustrated - I wasn't happy when i found out there are just 2 provinces between our capitals, as I would rather conquer more neutral provinces before starting an early war which is a big risk, but we're simply too close.

I do not apprieciate your attempt to damage my reputation by implying that I somehow attacked you dishonourably. You contacted me asking what i was willing to offer for the owl quills, i replied, and that's all - and it happened _before we even met_! After we met, i decided further talks were pointless. I did not in any way promise, suggest or imply that I would not attack you.

You have every right to fight back as hard as you can, including asking for help, offering intel/gems/whatever, but right now your pleas come off a bit like desperate whining :), while your situation is not IMO desperate. I'd suggest you try to keep your dignity.

And to the rest: C'tis is willing to forge friendly relationships with other of it's neighbours (assuming they're not that close ;) ), however anyone helping Fomoria will be dealt with harshly :)

Not whining, just describing what happened. True you never did say you wouldn't attack me. But yes, I do think a surprise attack on turn 5 with a flying combat pretender is a pretty low move. Yes, it may be a successful action in the near term. But since it's pretty much knocked me out of the game my only goal is now to make sure you don't win as a result.

You are free to attack. I am free to respond. Such is the metagame of dominions 3.

[Flop]

Alright, so now I've received 6 mails from llamaserver, saying that it's received the turn file for turn 6 from me. When I check the game status, it says it's turn 7, and that it hasn't received any turn files from anybody. I didn't receive a file for turn 7, though. Did anyone get one?

edit: Nevermind, I requested a resend, so I got the file now.

[revenant2]

I have a similar problem except the resend didn't send me my turn. I'll try again shortly...

[mattyburn7]

Me thinks there is still a problem. I sent my turn in 2 hours ago but it did not get acknowledged yet.

[Flop]

Yeah, there's definitely something weird going on. The stats page is still showing the stats from turn 6.

[curtadams]

The back end seems to be down - the last update on several games is 18:54 GMT Saturday even though it was (as of my viewing) 1:17 GMT Sunday. So roughly, it seems the problem from Friday/yesterday has recurred.

[Szumo]

I didn't get turn 7 and resend turn doesn't work :(

[mattyburn7]

Yep. Dead in water right now.

[Flop]

I wonder what'll happen when the server is back up, since it was supposed to send out new turn files about 20 minutes ago, and I assume that mattyburn hasn't been able to extend the deadline. Will it send out the files as soon as it's back up? That would mean that some people wouldn't get a chance to send in their turns.

[mattyburn7]

That's a real good question. I finally got email notifications that it received my turn 7, but it hasn't updated on the games page. I tried several times to extend to 72 hours but to no avail.
I'm also going on a business trip soon so my availability won't be as extensive the next 5 days.
Let's see what happens, play by ear and communicate hear.

[Flop]

It seems to be working fine now. The statistics screen still shows the stats from last turn, but that shouldn't be real problem (or so I hope).

edit: I was too fast, the proper stats are showing now. :)

[mattyburn7]

Yep. Looks like we are on turn 7!

[Torgon]

It looks like I'll be going down next turn. Let no one say that Fomoria did not fight until the last. Wish I could have been in on this longer.

Good luck everyone.

[Flop]

Has everybody received turn 13? I'm asking because I had to request a resend, before receiving it. I just thought I'd mention it, since the deadline is in about 13 hours, and 7 people have yet to send in their turn file.

[mattyburn7]

if it looks like some people are going to be late. I'll push back turn 24 hours. I'll wait until later today to make the call.

[mattyburn7]

I went ahead and pushed back 24 hours. If you haven't received the turn yet you will need to request a resend.

[Flop]

Can people who are being eliminated please send in their turns anyway, so the rest of us don't have to wait for the timer to run out?

I guess it doesn't really matter with Torgon, since the next turn is due in a few hours, anyway, but it would be nice in the future.

[mattyburn7]

Admin question guys? I see Fomoria is kaput. However he is still on the server list. Do I need to manually delete him from the game also?

[Szumo]

Admin question guys? I see Fomoria is kaput. However he is still on the server list. Do I need to manually delete him from the game also?

I don't think so - when you get eliminated, you get one last turn that shows it.

So guys, we got a bit quiet, time for gossip. I'll start by confirming that with some luck i finished Fomoria off, but that pause made me expand a bit slower than some of the others (Tien Chi and Hinnom for example). I no longer need owl quills, but if someone can forge and sell earth or fire items please contact me :)

And some new conclusions from the score tables:
- Ulm has mad research but no gem income. Start site searching man :) (Tien Chi has almost the same research, and a lot more gems!)
- Sauromatia, your dominion is getting dangerously low. Better start preaching.
- Same for Mictlan. Time to sacrifice some blood slaves ;)
- Tien Chi has most provinces, gems and income. Nice :)
- I have the biggest army, though Tien Chi is just behind me. Hail to the warmongers ;)

[Flop]

There's a nice little war going on between Helheim and Mictlan. I can't really tell who's winning, though.

[revenant2]

I'm flying fairly blind as well.

Is it just me, or are there very little scouts on this map? I don't have a single independent province that's capable of producing one.

[Flop]

I'm not sure, but I think Mictlan may have staled last turn, or at least he cut it very close to the time limit. If he's having time problems, maybe we should consider increasing the limit?

[curtadams]

It's pretty early for long turns - we can't use them and they'll considerably draw out the game. I think players should just ask for extensions.

[mattyburn7]

He did Stale. but that's the first stale for anyone so I agree I don't think we want to extend time limit. If anyone needs extensions though I'm generally pretty active on here and will grant if needed.

[Flop]

Ideally, I'd rather not extend the turn time limit either, but I've noticed that Mictlan has been cutting it kind of close for a while now. It could be that he's just getting creamed by Helheim, and doesn't feel like playing anymore, but it could also be that he just has trouble making it.

[curtadams]

Well, that explains why I had such a good turn. He's been a tough opponent - I assumed he had been spending a lot of time thinking about his turns.

[revenant2]

Something odd happened during turn 20 for me: I sent in my turn, and got a normal receipt, but for some reason none of my actions took place. It was as if I had staled.

I've actually been writing a fairly detailed after-action report after each of my moves with screen-shots, so I'm pretty sure I didn't do anything bone-headed. Has this even happened to anyone?

[HoleyDooley]

All good here from what I can see. But yeah, that sucks!

[mattyburn7]

Yea. My turned looked good also. Server doesn't show that you staled at all. That's kind of bizarre. Anyone know what our options are if this happens again? I think turn rollbacks are possible, but that seems kind of ugly.

Also we got a 2nd stale from Mictlan.

[curtadams]

Rollback and new orders is a no-go IMO. Is it possible to rollback and roll forward with the sent orders? That seems the way to go. In this case, since Mictlan, who Ermor is fighting, staled, he should probably have to give an OK for any kind of rollback.

[Flop]

I think we should investigate further before doing a rollback. I've heard that it can seriously mess up games, and that we won't necessarily be able to tell until much later in the game. I can't say I really know much about it, though, so maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.

[Szumo]

I've had what you describe happen a few time to me, and every time the reason was a mistake on my part - sending turn without clicking "End turn" and exiting, or entering game and clicking "Redo turn from the start" by mistake.

[revenant2]

A lost turn isn't the end of the world, and knowing me, I probably did do something bone-headed. No need to roll-back.

Thanks guys.

[Flop]

I'm looking forward to reading that AAR, by the way. Where are you planning on posting it?

No need to answer, if you're already posting it. :)

[revenant2]

I'm looking forward to reading that AAR, by the way. Where are you planning on posting it?

No need to answer, if you're already posting it. :)

It's at http://devnada.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/noobaphobia-introduction/

It's still fairly preliminary, i.e., I might make edits, and the turns are a delayed to avoid giving away too much information. However, there's some stuff in there that might possibly be used against me, e.g., info about my pretender, but I don't think it will be that big a deal -- especially for a newbie game.

[mattyburn7]

Cool. It will be fun to read! By the way I know Formoria went out early and Mictlan may be (hopefully not AWOL), but I'm enjoying the game and the company even more. Cheers to the players of Noobaphobia!

[Flop]

I'm looking forward to reading that AAR, by the way. Where are you planning on posting it?

No need to answer, if you're already posting it. :)

It's at http://devnada.wordpress.com/2012/02/13/noobaphobia-introduction/

It's still fairly preliminary, i.e., I might make edits, and the turns are a delayed to avoid giving away too much information. However, there's some stuff in there that might possibly be used against me, e.g., info about my pretender, but I don't think it will be that big a deal -- especially for a newbie game.

Thanks for the link. It's looking pretty good, so far, and I'm looking forward to reading more.

Cool. It will be fun to read! By the way I know Formoria went out early and Mictlan may be (hopefully not AWOL), but I'm enjoying the game and the company even more. Cheers to the players of Noobaphobia!

Cheers from me too. I'm having a blast so far, and you guy have been great. I'm a bit worried about Mictlan, though. It looks like he staled again last turn, and from the looks of it, he might stale again now. It's kind of holding up the game, not to mention that it's probably making Helheims conquest a bit too easy. ;)

[HoleyDooley]

Iron Dukes profiles shows he was around the forums yesterday.

I think you can safely say he is finished with this game, and a name to remember when recruiting in the future as "unreliable".

[Flop]

Iron Dukes profiles shows he was around the forums yesterday.

I think you can safely say he is finished with this game, and a name to remember when recruiting in the future as "unreliable".

Yeah, I think you're right. So what do we do now? Do we try to find a sub, or do we just switch him to AI? Finding a sub might be kind of difficult, since he's probably not too far from being knocked out.

[Iron Duke]

Excuse me??!! Unreliable? Two stale turns and you get the "unreliable" tag? I have been fighting on 3 fronts, and will continue to do so until the very end. I am on three games now, losing two(in one only my capital remains) and my total stales in those games amount to two. By the way I demand an apology.

[Iron Duke]

Iron Dukes profiles shows he was around the forums yesterday.

I think you can safely say he is finished with this game, and a name to remember when recruiting in the future as "unreliable".

Have you ever thought that people might have access to internet connection but not dom3? Tell me if that's a fair arguement you make.

[Iron Duke]

Cheers from me too. I'm having a blast so far, and you guy have been great. I'm a bit worried about Mictlan, though. It looks like he staled again last turn, and from the looks of it, he might stale again now. It's kind of holding up the game, not to mention that it's probably making Helheims conquest a bit too easy. ;)

Oh yeah? Well I'll do you a favor and save you some scouting. I might have turned the tide against helheim( I was just doing so) except hinnom invaded our land from the south, ermor broke his nap-3 the moment he got wind of mictlan fighting two nations to do some scavenging. And some barbarian horde suddenly decided it'd be a grand idea to lay siege to one of my newly completed forts. So yeah it's been tough for me, though I didn't "make the helheim's conquest a little too easy" these things happen, maybe I'll see you in another game and who knows it'll be someone else to fall down first...

[HoleyDooley]

Iron Dukes profiles shows he was around the forums yesterday.

I think you can safely say he is finished with this game, and a name to remember when recruiting in the future as "unreliable".

Have you ever thought that people might have access to internet connection but not dom3? Tell me if that's a fair arguement you make.

Yes thats a fair argument I make when you consider, if that was indeed the case, the courteous thing to do would have posted here, "hey guys, don't have access to Dom 3 at present, can we delay the turn til so and so".

You tell me if thats a fair argument! I think it is.

[Flop]

Oh yeah? Well I'll do you a favor and save you some scouting. I might have turned the tide against helheim( I was just doing so) except hinnom invaded our land from the south, ermor broke his nap-3 the moment he got wind of mictlan fighting two nations to do some scavenging. And some barbarian horde suddenly decided it'd be a grand idea to lay siege to one of my newly completed forts. So yeah it's been tough for me, though I didn't "make the helheim's conquest a little too easy" these things happen, maybe I'll see you in another game and who knows it'll be someone else to fall down first...

No offense, but I do think that two stale turns in a row are making things easier for him (and anyone else that may be invading you). That said, I sympathise with your situation in the game, as I've tried the same thing, in my only previous MP game. And yeah, stale turns do happen, and I guess they are to be expected once in a while.

Still, as HoleyDooley points out, it probably would have been a good idea to at least let us know what is going on, especially since we've been speculating about that, in this thread, for several days.

Anyway, I'm glad that you're still in the game, and I apologize for writing you off so soon.

[revenant2]

Cheers from me too. I'm having a blast so far, and you guy have been great. I'm a bit worried about Mictlan, though. It looks like he staled again last turn, and from the looks of it, he might stale again now. It's kind of holding up the game, not to mention that it's probably making Helheims conquest a bit too easy. ;)

Oh yeah? Well I'll do you a favor and save you some scouting. I might have turned the tide against helheim( I was just doing so) except hinnom invaded our land from the south, ermor broke his nap-3 the moment he got wind of mictlan fighting two nations to do some scavenging. And some barbarian horde suddenly decided it'd be a grand idea to lay siege to one of my newly completed forts. So yeah it's been tough for me, though I didn't "make the helheim's conquest a little too easy" these things happen, maybe I'll see you in another game and who knows it'll be someone else to fall down first...

I did give you three turns notice on that NAP-3, but no argument that I took advantage of your rather precarious strategic situation. I did take care of those barbarians for you :)

[DarkAvenger211]

Sending a notice out there to all who's willing to help. I won't last much longer but I will pay for any assistance given. my territories are under heavy invasion from both Sauromatia and Ctis. From what I can tell the whole of their armies are on my front.

If anyone can possibly perform a counter invasion of their territories (Can't be hard. There's no way they have much more defending their own territories). I'll make sure to pay out what gold and gems I still have.

PM me the details if you do. ;D

[Flop]

Alright, so one of my armies decided not to move this turn. Does anyone know what could have caused this?

[revenant2]

First it was Fomoria who was ruthlessly slaughtered by C'tis, but we did nothing. Then they came after Hinnom, who was mercilessly invaded by these cold-blooded monsters, but this time aided by their opportunistic neighbors, Sauromatia, whose weak-minded women leaders let themselves be beguiled by the sinister reptiles. And still we do nothing -- even as Hinnom barely clings to life behind the walls of his last fortress.

The Emorian High Command has had enough and has launched strikes against their unholy alliance and calls upon the noble nations to do their duty and join in the crusade to rid the land of this scaly menace.

Sauromatia, if you lay down your arms and cede your lands to my wise governance, we'll be willing to forgive your unnatural transgressions. As a gesture of our goodwill, We'll let you retain your capital, although we demand war reparations, all future gem production, and wives for my commanders -- including my Bane Lords (they aren't so bad once you get to know them).

[mattyburn7]

And we forget Mictlan. Poor Mictlan who was triple teamed...and who was it that completedly disregarded the NAP and stabbed him in the back. ERMOR: YOU SHOWED YOUR TRUE COLORS!

The world Cannot be safe until it is rid of ERMOR and their women stealing Bane Lords! (Speaking of which I just got a Bogarus hero in another game that would be a perfect match for a Bane Lord).

ERMOR: Lay down your weapons now and I will allow you a greater honor than your capitol. I will allow you the honor of serving as restroom attendants in all the Sauromatanian cities. A greater honor has never been bestowed.

Also the current reparations bill is at 1700 Gold and 129 Gems of any denomination.

Cheers!

[revenant2]

And we forget Mictlan. Poor Mictlan who was triple teamed...and who was it that completedly disregarded the NAP and stabbed him in the back. ERMOR: YOU SHOWED YOUR TRUE COLORS!

The world Cannot be safe until it is rid of ERMOR and their women stealing Bane Lords! (Speaking of which I just got a Bogarus hero in another game that would be a perfect match for a Bane Lord).

ERMOR: Lay down your weapons now and I will allow you a greater honor than your capitol. I will allow you the honor of serving as restroom attendants in all the Sauromatanian cities. A greater honor has never been bestowed.

Also the current reparations bill is at 1700 Gold and 129 Gems of any denomination.

Cheers!

Those bloodletters had it coming, and I did give them honorable notice about their upcoming extermination. Here's my proof :)

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/mictlan.png

[curtadams]

Alright, so one of my armies decided not to move this turn. Does anyone know what could have caused this?

It usually happens when you have the army selected and then look at another province. Right-click will select the new province and deselect the army with its orders intact. However, left-click tries to move the army to that province, and if that's not possible, leaves them with default orders. It's very easy to make the wrong click.

[Flop]

Alright, so one of my armies decided not to move this turn. Does anyone know what could have caused this?

It usually happens when you have the army selected and then look at another province. Right-click will select the new province and deselect the army with its orders intact. However, left-click tries to move the army to that province, and if that's not possible, leaves them with default orders. It's very easy to make the wrong click.

I loaded up the last turn, just to check, and they did have orders to move (with arrows and everything). Oh, well, I suppose it's just a glitch.

[HoleyDooley]

In the immortal words of Meat Loaf.

"You took the words right out of my mouth, oh it must have been when you were left clicking me."

My friend has armies that never move and always says the game is bugged. I tell him as per above. He insists its bugged. Mind you we play many games together and something is always bugged, it cannot be his human error.

[HoleyDooley]

Flop, perchance was there a battle in that province that turn?

[revenant2]

I hate to be the first to bring this up, but my turns are getting rather time-consuming. Admittedly, I'm fighting two wars right now, which isn't helping things, but I don't see these turns getting shorter anytime soon

Is it too early to consider a 48H auto-host?

[Szumo]

I'm ok with switching to 48h.

[Flop]

In the immortal words of Meat Loaf.

"You took the words right out of my mouth, oh it must have been when you were left clicking me."

My friend has armies that never move and always says the game is bugged. I tell him as per above. He insists its bugged. Mind you we play many games together and something is always bugged, it cannot be his human error.

Well, that's between you and your friend. Like I said, I checked out the turn I submitted, and the army was indeed ordered to move. And there wasn't any battle in that province, so that's not the reason why it didn't move.

I'm not suggesting a rollback, or even complaining (much), but I'd like to know if there's some known issue causing this, so that I can avoid it in the future.

I'm ok with switching to 48 hours, btw, and to be honest, I was thinking of suggesting this myself. I also think I might need an extension this coming weekend, but I'll come back to that in a few days.

[mattyburn7]

Ermor: Those are obviously forged documents from the Master's of deceit.

I'm going to go ahead and switch to 48 hours now!

Ermor. An alternative to the 48 hour switch would be for you to surrender 2/3 of your provinces now to make administration easier.

Cheers!

[mattyburn7]

k. Switched to 48 hours. If for some reason it didn't seem to take affect, send me a PM.
CHeers!

[HoleyDooley]

Flop, my comment was being typed whilst yours was posted, and I didn't get to read it before posting mine. Note yours posted at 3:26 and mine at 3:29. I wasn't having a dig at you, but yes, the left click is a common fault.

Thus I posted another query, was there a battle in the province that the troops were in?

My friend had complained that troops didn't move but there was a battle in their province which suggested to me the opposition came directly from the province in which he was trying to move.

[curtadams]

I generally don't like converging armies, because not too infrequently only one moves. I'd thought it was because of interfering orders (e.g. I have two armies moving into a province, he has one counterattacking, counterattacker moves first and I have two fights, one with the army that moved and one with the one that got firsted). But I'd never carefully analyzed it and maybe it's a bug.

[revenant2]

Ermor: Those are obviously forged documents from the Master's of deceit.

I'm going to go ahead and switch to 48 hours now!

Ermor. An alternative to the 48 hour switch would be for you to surrender 2/3 of your provinces now to make administration easier.

Cheers!

Our propaganda ministry didn't starting using Photoshop until the middle-age, so I assure you it's legitimate.

Thanks for the time bump

[mattyburn7]

Anytime. Please remember to pay for all food you take from my people.

[Flop]

Flop, my comment was being typed whilst yours was posted, and I didn't get to read it before posting mine. Note yours posted at 3:26 and mine at 3:29. I wasn't having a dig at you, but yes, the left click is a common fault.

Thus I posted another query, was there a battle in the province that the troops were in?

My friend had complained that troops didn't move but there was a battle in their province which suggested to me the opposition came directly from the province in which he was trying to move.


Fair enough, I hadn't noticedd the time stamps. Anyway, I think it's just a glitch. I think I'll just try to avoid coordinated attacks in the future, unless it's absolutely necessary.

As Curtadams points out, there are other good reasons for doing that, too, so I should probably be avoiding them anyway. :)

[revenant2]

Sorry everyone. Turn 35 is waiting up on me, but unfortunately, I won't get a chance to take it until later this evening.

[mattyburn7]

No problem. I know it takes awhile to plan a retreat...errrr orderly withdrawal.

[revenant2]

We prefer to think of it as fighting in the other direction.

[curtadams]

Reculer pour mieux sauter!

[Szumo]

Flop, not that i'm accusing you of anything, but do you remember that recruiting 0g Wild Ettin is an exploit and forbidden, right?

[Flop]

Flop, not that i'm accusing you of anything, but do you remember that recruiting 0g Wild Ettin is an exploit and forbidden, right?

Ah, damn, you're right. I had totally forgotten about that. I think I've recruited 6 or 7, but haven't really used them much. I guess I'll just park them in some backwater province, and stop recruiting them. I'm sorry guys. :(

On another note, I'd like to request a 24 hour extension, if that's ok. I've been pretty busy these last couple of days, and I'm not sure I can make the current deadline. I'll send a PM to Matty, just in case he doesn't check the thread.

[mattyburn7]

Hey Flop...Got it. Going to add extension now. Thanks!

[Flop]

Thanks, Matty.

[revenant2]

Our mighty god, El Gato Grande, "The big Cat", "The mighty purrer", and "he who enjoys long, long naps" has an important message to all the faithful, who support him in his holy crusade against the foul lizard-men, C'tis, and their side-kicks, Sauromatia.

Despite what you may see in the score graphs, our war has been a great, rousing success. We have absolutely no need for assistance and want to assure everyone that you may go about your lives in peaceful ignorance to the great struggle that's being fought for your very souls by your just and loyal Emorian protectors.

The joy we feel in our hearts is payment enough for this opportunity to protect everyone from this slithering menace. Please don't be concerned if you see some of our forces moving into our fortresses. There is a holy holiday coming up and our mighty army has earned a break to spend with their loves ones, but rest assured, your safety is in good hands and we'll be returning to the field soon. Despite what some rumors have said, we are NOT retreating before an unholy horde of Sauromancers and poison spitting dragons. That's just not how we do things in Ermor.

And to poor Hinnom, who was defeated by a monstrosity so evil that our scout still can't fully recount it without sobbing uncontrollably, we tried to stand bravely by your side. However, the combined might of Lizard and Amazon slowed down our inexorable advance before we could reach your capital in time. Although I'm sure we would have given a bit more time. A few lizards and women in thongs can't stop us! We'll avenge you! -- But not until after our holiday is over.

Also, we discount the reports of your giants eating their own children in the last days of the siege as propaganda from C'tis. Our scout only reported seeing some very hungry giants and large stew-pots, but we didn't actually see any children being eaten. Come to think of it, we didn't see any children at all, but I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for that.

[Szumo]

Actually, your war is indeed a success - you're doing surprisingly well so far (I can hope this is about to end).
You can always beg for mercy of course, err i mean ask for peace. Let it not be said that Szumo, God of C'tis, is a cruel one (because everyone should be afraid of saying that aloud of course).

On another note, it's turn 45 and gossip seems to have died :(
I noticed most of the "good" artifacts have been already forged before i even got to const 8. Pity :(

To me, overall situation seems that there are 2 leagues - with me, Tien Chi and Helheim in the first one, Ulm, Sauromatia and Yomi in 2nd one and Ermor dropping into it. Guys in the second league really need to get some allies or they will no longer matter. While guys in the first one should already be switching from recruit based armies to summon based ones ;)

[mattyburn7]

You Mean to say that my amazons aren't going to cut it!!! Ah well, at least they do a good job of dying so others might live.

Ermor: Good News!! The Sauromatian Senate has voted to give all citizens of Ermor 10% citizenship as they are annexed into the greater Sauromatian kingdom. It really doesn't mean much other than you pay higher taxes and get nothing for it.

When we take Shamballac back, please make sure the place is nice and tidied. Also, I'm got to wonder what the women of Ermor are like, your soldiers keep hitting on my Gorgon!

[mattyburn7]

K. I'm going to switch back to 48 hours. If you need me to delay any further, just let me know.
Thanks!

[Flop]

I will. Thanks again. :)

[revenant2]

Ermor is looking to buy 2 Moonvine Bracelets in our righteous struggle against the lizard menace. Please let me know your price.

[mattyburn7]

Everyone: I postponed turn 24 hours. Won't be due until 7:30 GMT Monday.
Cheers!

Ermor: Are you ready to become a satellite yet of the Amazons?

[curtadams]

I can't really disagree with Szumo's grouping analysis, but I certainly feel like "minimum inter pares" (least among equals) in the top group. Some of it involves things that went that I'm not going to reveal until the post-mortem, and some is in the graphs. But a hint: if I write an AAR it's going to be titled something like "Blundering Your Way into a Respectable Endgame Loss".

[mattyburn7]

I know for sure he put me in the right group. LOL! Will be anxious to hear your post-mortem Curt.

[revenant2]

Everyone: I postponed turn 24 hours. Won't be due until 7:30 GMT Monday.
Cheers!

Ermor: Are you ready to become a satellite yet of the Amazons?

I can see that our master plan of luring you and the lizards into a false sense of security is working splendidly.

[Szumo]

Indeed it is. I can't wait for you to unveil your surprise :)

[Flop]

Damn, I staled. I thought I'd be able to get in my turn, but unfortunately I didn't. :(

I don't suppose it would be possible to increase the turn timer to 72 hours? My turns are starting to take a while to do, and I've been having a hard time getting my turns in lately.

[mattyburn7]

I'm ok with it...Anyone else have an objection?

[curtadams]

No, I've had some close calls myself.

[mattyburn7]

I've extended to 72 hours.
Flop I really apologize for not catching it. Usually I try to watch for it, but past couple days have been hectic with the Holidays.

Not sure why Sauromatia gets his turns done quickly...Wait I know. Only about 5 provinces!! LOL

[revenant2]

I've extended to 72 hours.
Flop I really apologize for not catching it. Usually I try to watch for it, but past couple days have been hectic with the Holidays.

Not sure why Sauromatia gets his turns done quickly...Wait I know. Only about 5 provinces!! LOL

It would have been zero if it wasn't for that meddling lizard man :)

[mattyburn7]

I was going to put the Kaibosh on that bane lord of yours until you sent that huge army my way. What gives. More suitors for the Gorgon??

[Flop]

I've extended to 72 hours.
Flop I really apologize for not catching it. Usually I try to watch for it, but past couple days have been hectic with the Holidays.

No problem, it's not your fault. :)

[revenant2]

I was going to put the Kaibosh on that bane lord of yours until you sent that huge army my way. What gives. More suitors for the Gorgon??

That poor Bane Lord, Childfeaster, has been through quite a lot and just wants to find a nice Sauromatian wife -- preferably an amazon -- to settle down with, although he's been in the field so long he'd probably settle for your Gorgon, although you would need to put a dress on her first.

[curtadams]

One turn, two gods killed! Feel the power of Moonson!

[Szumo]

I'm for 72 hours too - i'm about to need a lot of time for the turns now that almopst everyone and their dogs gave me NAP termination notices ;)

[mattyburn7]

k. Been set to 72 hours.

Its kind of funny. Ermor and myself have 2 little enclaves inside the C'tis bubble. It looks like we are about to do battle for control of the enclave.

[revenant2]

k. Been set to 72 hours.

Its kind of funny. Ermor and myself have 2 little enclaves inside the C'tis bubble. It looks like we are about to do battle for control of the enclave.

It's race for me to destroy you before Ctis destroys me in kind. This assumes he isn't destroyed by everyone else before he can finish the job, which might be difficult when he faces The Big Cat, who is one very tough kitty.

[mattyburn7]

Bummer. I thought my Pretender would join the battle. Instead he went inside the castle. What gives!!

You've got the inside track now to knock me out.

Good fight you brought!

[revenant2]

Bummer. I thought my Pretender would join the battle. Instead he went inside the castle. What gives!!

You've got the inside track now to knock me out.

Good fight you brought!

Don't underestimate my ability to steal defeat from the jaws of victory.

[curtadams]

Bummer. I thought my Pretender would join the battle. Instead he went inside the castle. What gives!!

Default action is defend. If you click on another province with him selected, or remove magic items, he'll revert to defend. I suspect there are other similar ways to lose orders. I've lost move orders that way a few times this game but without significant consequence to date.

[curtadams]

I'm for 72 hours too - i'm about to need a lot of time for the turns now that almopst everyone and their dogs gave me NAP termination notices ;)

There's only two of us delivering NAP termination notices. :p It's our armies that seem endless, but they only fight. :D

[mattyburn7]

Here's situation. Just curious if I did something wrong.

Ermor had army in Province A. I had a castle in Province B. I also had an army in Province C. I expected A to attack B. So I put everything in B on Patrol and moved my army from C to B.

What happened was Ermor did attack B. My army in B fought. But the army in C moved to B but didn't fight in battle. THey went right to defend castle.

THanks for any help on this. If I made a mistake hope to avoid in future. In this case it probably did keep my pretender from dying! LOL.

Bummer. I thought my Pretender would join the battle. Instead he went inside the castle. What gives!!

Default action is defend. If you click on another province with him selected, or remove magic items, he'll revert to defend. I suspect there are other similar ways to lose orders. I've lost move orders that way a few times this game but without significant consequence to date.

[revenant2]

Here's situation. Just curious if I did something wrong.

Ermor had army in Province A. I had a castle in Province B. I also had an army in Province C. I expected A to attack B. So I put everything in B on Patrol and moved my army from C to B.

What happened was Ermor did attack B. My army in B fought. But the army in C moved to B but didn't fight in battle. THey went right to defend castle.

THanks for any help on this. If I made a mistake hope to avoid in future. In this case it probably did keep my pretender from dying! LOL.

Bummer. I thought my Pretender would join the battle. Instead he went inside the castle. What gives!!

Default action is defend. If you click on another province with him selected, or remove magic items, he'll revert to defend. I suspect there are other similar ways to lose orders. I've lost move orders that way a few times this game but without significant consequence to date.

I'm not sure if someone already mentioned this, but you can tell an army to move then patrol as a single action to prevent this type of situation.

Our previous battle was actually a lot closer than you thought. My communion was taking significant fatigue damage and if it had lasted a few more turns, I likely would have lost my communion slaves, which would have been disastrous for me.

[mattyburn7]

Cool. Thanks for the help on that!

Yea. Communions are great, but if they turn bad on fatigue, things get ugly in a hurry!

[revenant2]

Cool. Thanks for the help on that!

Yea. Communions are great, but if they turn bad on fatigue, things get ugly in a hurry!

They are great, but they add a whole new layer of complexity on an already very complicated combat system. If you ever want to experience the full fury of micro-management hell, play MA Ermor where you get to manage both communions and undead hordes at the same time. They are pretty powerful though :)

[curtadams]

Default action on moving to a fort is defend, and I hate, hate, hate, that default. How often are you going to want to run inside a fort anyway? You can always help break siege from outside. The only time is when you've lost a war and are planning for an extended siege. That's rare enough I think it should take deliberation. Plus, most of the time a mistake that way just means an earlier loss. OTOH, a defend when you want a move-and-patrol frequently converts an ongoing game into a loss.

It's just intuitive that when you expect a fort to be attacked, moving in will help stop the attack. I've lost many battles in SP because I've forgotten to set "move and patrol". I'd be frustrated beyond words if I'd lost a critical MP battle because of it.

[Flop]

I'm just glad you guys are making these mistakes so I won't have to. :D

(although I probably will, anyway)

[revenant2]

I'm just glad you guys are making these mistakes so I won't have to. :D

(although I probably will, anyway)

Since we're talking mistakes and this is a newbie game, I could really use some help to figure out what I screwed up my not-so-brilliant defense of my pretender, El Gato Grande, who is currently in Kitty heaven.

I had scripted the following orders for him:


Power of the Spheres
Body Ethereal
Resist Magic
Summon Earthpower
Solar Brilliance


The first four spells went off without a hitch, but the critical 5th spell did not for some reason. Here is what his orders looked like:

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/elgato.jpg

And what he looked like right before the 5th cast:

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/elgato2.jpg

Solar Brilliance is a level 5 astral spell with 200 fatigue, but El Gato had 9 in astral after POS, so it would have only cost him 40 fatigue to cast.

What did I do wrong?

[revenant2]

I just figured it out! Power of the Spheres actually takes two astral gems -- even though the description says it takes one:

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/pos.jpg

This explains why some of my communions lacked a certain oomph earlier in this game. Come to think of it, they lacked a certain ooomph in my previous game, too, where certain spells weren't going off, but I didn't pay it too much attention at the time.

I wish I had known about this earlier. It probably wouldn't have made that much of a difference in this game, although it certainly would have made things much more painful for a certain Lizard Man :)

[Szumo]

It takes one pearl, but mages can burn more gems to temporarily boost their magic level, and sometimes casting AI does that even when it's not needed. Your pretender burned enough gems that he didn't have enough to cast Solar Brillance (which needs 2).

[revenant2]

It takes one pearl, but mages can burn more gems to temporarily boost their magic level, and sometimes casting AI does that even when it's not needed. Your pretender burned enough gems that he didn't have enough to cast Solar Brillance (which needs 2).

Doh!

I feel like I need to go back to college to learn how this game works sometimes. Thanks for the information.

[Szumo]

I'll be on a trip from 27th April till 4th May (this Friday till next one). It is unlikely (though possible) that i'll be able to make turns during that time. Can we leave quickhost on but increase hosting interval for that week so i don't miss any turns?

[Szumo]

Btw, revenant2: I'd like more blog posts so i can comment and add my screenshots. No point keeping that any but few of the most recent hidden now, right? :)

[revenant2]

Btw, revenant2: I'd like more blog posts so i can comment and add my screenshots. No point keeping that any but few of the most recent hidden now, right? :)

I posted 31 earlier today, and should have 32 up in a day or so. Unfortunately, I've been running into general time issues so I haven't written the narratives for the other ones yet (they take awhile to write), although I have all the screen-shots and notes in place, so they will definitely be posted at some point.

In the future remind me to never write two AARs at the same time...

[mattyburn7]

Will do.I'll extend interval!

[HoleyDooley]

Hi ya rev2, as per your last post and a quick time check reveals, that this post is actually...."the future".

Mate, never volunteer to write two AARs simultaneously......or for that matter, at the same time.

Cheers........Always happy to help out when I'm needed.

HD

[revenant2]

Hi ya rev2, as per your last post and a quick time check reveals, that this post is actually...."the future".

Mate, never volunteer to write two AARs simultaneously......or for that matter, at the same time.

Cheers........Always happy to help out when I'm needed.

HD

Thanks bud :)

[curtadams]

All the world may rejoice! Presaging his imminent ascendance, Moonson has granted the whole world the blessings of death, that all may know the joys of submission to his jaws!

[Szumo]

All the world may rejoice! Presaging his imminent ascendance, Moonson has granted the whole world the blessings of death, that all may know the joys of submission to his jaws!

I expected to see Utterdark or Burden of Time in the turn messages after this declaration, not Well of Misery ;)

[Szumo]

Btw Flop, did you name some other commander of yours Ming the Merciless or did I feeblemind your god? :)

[curtadams]

All the world may rejoice! Presaging his imminent ascendance, Moonson has granted the whole world the blessings of death, that all may know the joys of submission to his jaws!

I expected to see Utterdark or Burden of Time in the turn messages after this declaration, not Well of Misery ;)

Moonson is an honest god! He would have called that a curse of resistance, not a blessing. He's helping all understand how much better the world will be once he ascends. He has noticed a lot of resistance to that truth and hopes to speed things along.

[Flop]

Btw Flop, did you name some other commander of yours Ming the Merciless or did I feeblemind your god? :)

You did, but he recovered during the same turn resolution. Things move fast in the land of...weather?

But I don't mind saying I was rather disappointed with this turn. This aggression will not stand, man. :)

[mattyburn7]

AND....

Ermor and Sauromatia continue their war. Its epic, its game-changing. Its the Ermor-Sautomatian war. Nobody wants to wander into our neck of the woods!

My band of warriors reminds me somewhat of the ranks of Scots at the beginning of Bravehearts. We're few, were eclectic and our days are numbered!

[revenant2]

AND....

Ermor and Sauromatia continue their war. Its epic, its game-changing. Its the Ermor-Sautomatian war. Nobody wants to wander into our neck of the woods!

My band of warriors reminds me somewhat of the ranks of Scots at the beginning of Bravehearts. We're few, were eclectic and our days are numbered!

Damn right :) Especially not Shade Woods, which has changed hands more times than I can count.

As far as eclectic goes, the center-piece of my army is a captured Tarrasque I managed to steal from a certain Lizard Man.

I'm coming for you Amazon!

[Szumo]

I'm back and should manage to get my turn in time :)

[mattyburn7]

Congrats: I through everything left at Ermor and he fought me off. I'm not long for this game.

Who would like to take over hosting?

[curtadams]

What would it require?

[mattyburn7]

Adding time extensions if anyone needs it. So you have to keep an eye on the board/PM's. They may be temporary or permanent.

And then finishing the game. Llamaserver is pretty straightforward.

If you are interested I can send you the password and you can check out the admin options on llamaserver.

[Szumo]

Go ahead and try it curtadams. I'm being admin for another game so don't want to take this one and you're likely to to outlast me anyway :)

[mattyburn7]

Remaining Players: Curtadams has officially taken over hosting duties. Please PM him and/or post here if you need anything.

Its been a fun first MP game for me.
Cheers!

[Flop]

Can I request a 12 hour extension? I don't think I'll have time to do my turn before wednesday afternoon/evening, so it's just to be safe. :)

[curtadams]

Woohoo, it worked! Turn now due 03:20 GMT on Thursday May 17th.

[mattyburn7]

:up:

[curtadams]

Hosting delayed 12 hours at T'ien Chi's request. The game will now host at 04:19 GMT on Wednesday May 23rd.

[Flop]

I'm afraid to ask, but I'm going to need an extension on the next turn (I already sent in my file for this turn), since I'll be travelling, and won't have access to my computer, until wednesday or thursday next week. If I could have an extension until, say, 15.00 GMT on thursday, that'd be awesome. I might be able to get my turn in wednesday night, but I'm not sure.

After this, my schedule should clear up a bit, so hopefully I won't need anymore extensions for a while. I'm kind of ashamed that I'm the one who keeps asking for them.

[curtadams]

Sure, I'll do the extension.

[Flop]

Great! Thanks.

[revenant2]

I'm afraid to ask, but I'm going to need an extension on the next turn (I already sent in my file for this turn), since I'll be travelling, and won't have access to my computer, until wednesday or thursday next week. If I could have an extension until, say, 15.00 GMT on thursday, that'd be awesome. I might be able to get my turn in wednesday night, but I'm not sure.

After this, my schedule should clear up a bit, so hopefully I won't need anymore extensions for a while. I'm kind of ashamed that I'm the one who keeps asking for them.

I'm cool from my end. Take as much time as you need. I'm having enough trouble taking my turns as it is (my other game is a massive time sink), so a bit of a break will be welcome. I might even be able to make some progress on my AAR.

[curtadams]

Hosting postponed for Noobaphobia by 63 hours. The game will now host at 15:18 GMT on Thursday May 31st.

[Szumo]

Bow to the darkness :P

[mattyburn7]

FYI: I went AI. I don't think my 12 amazons and 1 province will matter to the world anymore :). Cheers and have fun!

[revenant2]

FYI: I went AI. I don't think my 12 amazons and 1 province will matter to the world anymore :). Cheers and have fun!

Good game Matty. I might not be far behind you the way this game is going, although I refuse to die while the Lizard Man still lives :)

[mattyburn7]

Best of luck to you Rev! I look forward to seeing you in other games in the future (above and beyond BSOD!)

[curtadams]

Bye Matty and thanks for the game.

[Szumo]

Best of luck to you Rev! I look forward to seeing you in other games in the future (above and beyond BSOD!)

See you in future games :)

[revenant2]

Is anyone planning to dispel Utterdark?

[Szumo]

Why, isn't it fun? ;)

[revenant2]

Why, isn't it fun? ;)

Morale was already low in the ranks -- and that was when I had money to pay everyone :)

[Szumo]

I think it hurs Tien Chi more :P

[mattyburn7]

This is where the Sauro strategy worked perfectly. We have NO soldiers to pay!!

[revenant2]

Something weird happened this past turn that I'm at a loss to explain.

T'ien and I both attacked C'tis in the same province. T'ien went first and defeated C'tis, and then my forces moved in and engaged T'ien.

The battle summary shows that we lost the battle against T'ien, killing two out of his four Tartarians, but the battle replay shows that we won, enslaving one of them and killing the other three.

Does anyone know what might have happened?

Here's a screen-shot of the battle.

http://devnada.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/b44.jpg

[Calahan]

The battle summary shows that we lost the battle against T'ien, killing two out of his four Tartarians, but the battle replay shows that we won, enslaving one of them and killing the other three.

Does anyone know what might have happened?
This is a well known bug where the battle replay doesn't match the battle report. The precise cause of this bug isn't known, but if you are using mods then sometimes having a slightly different version of a mod that the host computer is using can cause it. As such making sure you are using the exact same mods as the host computer can correct the replay. (keep in mind that the battle report is correct, and that it's the battle replay that's wrong. Or at least that's been the case in every example I've come across)

But this is not exclusively a mod bug, as it has also been seen in SP games without mods. Unfortunately it's just one of the bugs in the game that regular players have just learnt to accept. (as you either have to just accept it or stop playing)

[revenant2]

Thanks for the response Calahan.

[curtadams]

I've read that the bug can be caused by having a scout watching the battle, and I did have a scout there. I would guess that the game re-runs the battle for the observing scout rather than showing the first run, and then saves the re-run for viewing. The bug might be more common that we realize as often a small change in the battle won't get noticed. How many of us count survivors by type at the end of the battle?

[curtadams]

I think it hurts Tien Chi more :P

I think so too, although I'm not absolutely sure since T'ien Chi's battlemages are mostly throwing 100 Pre spells while mine use mostly aimed spells. Definitely least harmful for you, Szumo, and I guess that's a good level for a global in a 3-way fight.

[revenant2]

I've read that the bug can be caused by having a scout watching the battle, and I did have a scout there. I would guess that the game re-runs the battle for the observing scout rather than showing the first run, and then saves the re-run for viewing. The bug might be more common that we realize as often a small change in the battle won't get noticed. How many of us count survivors by type at the end of the battle?

The battle was very close: I tried rerunning it a few times and changing the RNG, and the results would vary quite a bit. This was because everything hinged on whether I was able to enslave one of his Tartarians.

[curtadams]

I had to give myself a 12 hour delay. Next turn due: 01:40 GMT on Wednesday June 13th

[curtadams]

24 hour delay for myself and T'ien Chi.

[curtadams]

Well, I don't know what happened. I put in a 24 hour extension but the turn rolled anyway. Fortunately nobody launched a major attack on me last turn so it's not a major disaster.

[revenant2]

Well, I don't know what happened. I put in a 24 hour extension but the turn rolled anyway. Fortunately nobody launched a major attack on me last turn so it's not a major disaster.

This happened to us earlier in this game as well. We don't know what happened at the time, but what's left of our high-command now suspects foul-play by the dastardly Lizardmen -- the same monsters that inflicted Utterdark on our world.

Why is this abominable enchantment still up? We demand that Helheim and T'ien stop warring with each other and exterminate the lizard menace once and for all.

Our children go to sleep at night hungry because there's no food, and are afraid to sleep because they might be eaten by some foul monster. Can someone please think of the children?!

[curtadams]

Actually this is a different problem. You sent a turn and the server got it - no stale - but you didn't have any moves executed. I didn't send my turn, because the server processed the turn before the time it said it would when I delayed the turn, and I staled.

I was really PO'd when it happened because I'd just spent an hour doing my turn and when I logged on to send it there was the new turn! Unfortunately my nephew was in the next room so I had to restrain my language. :o Plus, I later realized an Asynja had become Eater food so it wasn't quite as benign a stale as I'd thought. At least I was the only one affected so I didn't ruin somebody else's game.

But, this last turn went well for me so I guess I can't complain.

PS Helheim does think of the children. It thinks they can be good blood sacrifices when they grow up!

[revenant2]

We have nine hours left to host, and I'm the only one who's taken a turn. Hopefully, you guys are able to take your turns before we host.

Also, C'tis staled last turn. I'm not sure if it makes a difference at this point, but he strikes me as the type that would battle to the bitter end, so maybe we ought to tack on some time until we can confirm.

[Szumo]

I have already sent my next turn.

[curtadams]

I just sent mine in, and T'ien Chi asked for a 12 hour request last night (set this morning). Since I keep an eye on the timing, I can say that both T'ien Chi and I tend to come in just under the wire. In my case, the amount of work for a turn has long since reached the "I don't want to deal with all that micro right now" so I tend to procrastinate. It's a standard headache for Dom endgames, but it's still a headache.

My standard policy on staling is always to grant an extension if asked but only if asked. T'ien chi got caught out by that once IIRC so we shouldn't change it now.

[Flop]

Damn, I missed my own extension. I should have asked for 24 hours, I suppose.

Sorry about that, guys.

[curtadams]

If your turns are anything like mine, there's a few things you really have to do and a lot that's just useful. Since we both tend to push the time limit anyway, we could turn off quick hosting so we could send in partial turns without risking a mess from early hosting.

[Flop]

If your turns are anything like mine, there's a few things you really have to do and a lot that's just useful. Since we both tend to push the time limit anyway, we could turn off quick hosting so we could send in partial turns without risking a mess from early hosting.

That's a good idea. I'd really prefer that, unless anyone objects.

To be honest, I feel we should have made some other win condition, rather than total conquest. The game is starting to drag on a bit, although it does make for excellent end game experience (something which I sorely need :)).

[revenant2]

If your turns are anything like mine, there's a few things you really have to do and a lot that's just useful. Since we both tend to push the time limit anyway, we could turn off quick hosting so we could send in partial turns without risking a mess from early hosting.

That's a good idea. I'd really prefer that, unless anyone objects.

To be honest, I feel we should have made some other win condition, rather than total conquest. The game is starting to drag on a bit, although it does make for excellent end game experience (something which I sorely need :)).

My turns are nice and short :)

[curtadams]

If your turns are anything like mine, there's a few things you really have to do and a lot that's just useful. Since we both tend to push the time limit anyway, we could turn off quick hosting so we could send in partial turns without risking a mess from early hosting.

That's a good idea. I'd really prefer that, unless anyone objects.

Done. I'll switch back if anybody objects.

To be honest, I feel we should have made some other win condition, rather than total conquest. The game is starting to drag on a bit,

starting?

although it does make for excellent end game experience (something which I sorely need :)).

I am certainly learning a lot about the endgame. I was so proud of my kitting out of Magog to be the ultimate SC-disposer and then the Dimensional Rod didn't do squat plus he knocked himself out and basically snoozed the entire battle.

[revenant2]

Nice Szumo.

Citadel of the Lore Masters is right next to your capitol. No wonder you're research was so good in the beginning.

[curtadams]

game postponed 72 hours for international trip by T'ien Chi's player

[Szumo]

Nice Szumo.

Citadel of the Lore Masters is right next to your capitol. No wonder you're research was so good in the beginning.

Didn't use them much for research, shamans were more cost effective with my scales.

[Flop]

Thanks for the extension. I had to attend a wedding in Sweden, which kind of snuck up on me. I'm back now, and have handed in my turn.

[curtadams]

Had to give myself a 12 hour extension due to work crisis.

[revenant2]

Should we turn quick hosting back on?

[curtadams]

I'd rather not have quick hosting on at the moment. I was using it this turn - I sent in a partial (albeit mostly complete) turn Saturday, then squeezed in the completion about an hour before the roll. I admit I'm probably the only one benefitting at this point.

[revenant2]

I'd rather not have quick hosting on at the moment. I was using it this turn - I sent in a partial (albeit mostly complete) turn Saturday, then squeezed in the completion about an hour before the roll. I admit I'm probably the only one benefitting at this point.

That's cool with me. In one of my other games, my turns have grown so incredibly complicated that I'll usually start off sending a turn within the first 36 hours, and then send 2-3 revised turns afterward, so I feel your pain.

As far as this game goes, I have no chance of winning. The only reason I haven't gone AI yet is so I don't spoil the game for everyone else and I want to make the AAR interesting when I finally complete it.

As long as the other guys want to keep fighting, I'll hang in there until the bitter end, but I was so crippled by my war with C'tis and Utterdark that all I can field right now is a single semi-decent army.

[revenant2]

After a few setbacks this last turn, where we lost most of our territory to the dastardly Helheimians, what's left of our high-command convened an emergency session to discuss our precarious military situation and determined in an unanimous vote that we've still got this thing won.

Here's the master plan:


Reform our army and put a smack-down on Helheim's sieges.
Send an army to exterminate C'tis and his sinister lizard-men (he's still enemy #1).
Boot out T'ien from our capitol (or whoever is squatting on it now)
Kick Helheim's ***.
Liberate the world.

[Flop]

Sorry for staling again guys. I thought I had another day, until I saw the 12 hours notice this morning, before leaving for work.

To be honest, I think Curtadams has pretty much won at this point, but I'm willing to fight on, if that's what people (mostly Curt) want.

[revenant2]

Sorry for staling again guys. I thought I had another day, until I saw the 12 hours notice this morning, before leaving for work.

To be honest, I think Curtadams has pretty much won at this point, but I'm willing to fight on, if that's what people (mostly Curt) want.

I'm willing to halt my remorseless counter-offensive against Helheim and declare him the victor if Szumo concurs.

[curtadams]

I am very eager to end the game. I will cheerfully accept a concession by consensus. Szumo?

[Szumo]

Yes, it's obvious that Hellheim is the winner. Well done, and thanks for the game everybody.
I'll be waiting for the AAR revenant :)

[Flop]

Congratulations! There was a time where I honestly thought this might be my first Dom3 win, but my lack of endgame experience hit me quite hard, I'm afraid. That and Utterdark. My plan was to end the horrible spell by taking C'tis, and killing whoever cast it, but sadly, my offensive ground to a halt, as my troops started deserting and dying from disease. When I finally decided to dispell it, Helheim had taken most of my territory.

Still, I had a number of kitted out tartarians and ember lords, but I just couldn't get them to work against Helheims SCs. I think I need some more endgame practice. :)

Anyway, thanks for the game everybody, it was fun, except for the end, which was kind of tedious. I think I'll demand that my next game has some other victory condition, besides total conquest. :)

[Szumo]

How many gems did you dispel Utterdark with?

[Flop]

I think it was 200.

[curtadams]

The problem with dispelling Utterdark by the time you did it was that I had about 2/3 of the world. So even though you got more mileage out of your money due to better mages, I had so much more money it was a net benefit to me. With the money I got, I was gearing up for a domkill, which I hadn't been able to do earlier since I couldn't recruit the Vanjarls I needed. The dispel would probably have sped up the win as the domkill was only going to take a few turns (I think...) while grinding through all the forts and stomping the wandering Tartarians would have taken quite a while.

Flop, it wasn't that your SCs were bad, it's that I avoided fighting them except on my terms. The fights were pretty much either army fights where I had a much larger army (and generally more SCs as well) or where I airdropped SCs designed to kill the specific ones you had there. The one way they weren't the best was that a lot had equip and scripts to jump into the back and attack, which would be very effective against a mage army but less so against my armies, which were more thug-oriented.

Now Szumo's SCs, yeesh. I think at one point I lost 5 SC battles in a row. That was certainly a learning experience!

Great game, thanks everybody!

[revenant2]

Great game everyone and congrats Curt!

[revenant2]

Yes, it's obvious that Hellheim is the winner. Well done, and thanks for the game everybody.
I'll be waiting for the AAR revenant :)

I'll start updating it again after my other game (BSoD) is done.