Pretender astral

[SsSam]

...you can't win here, can you?

If you put astral on your pretender, they are vulnerable to Magic Duel. Tons of low level s1 mages will eventually take down anybody.

On the other hand, if you don't put astral on your pretender, they can't operate on their own without being subjected to mind hunt.

Thoughts about how you pick your poison are welcome.

[bbz]

rainbow armour + lead shield + starshine skullcap and Amulet of Antimagic (add in Mage Bane and Amon Hotep for the extra wow effect)makes it highly unlikely that they will be able to kill your pretender mind hunting him.
they would need to create several mindhunters and equipt them with rune smashers and other penetration boosters and even then chances are small that the pretender will fall down to mind hunt. (and those penetration items will cost your enemies a fortune so it is highly unlikely for them to be even cost effective to kill your pretender)

another think you can do give him decentish MR-26ish and move him together with 10-15 scouts. Your opponents will spend a fortune trying to kill 20-gold scout. and when it hits your god its still not very likely to kill it.

[sansanjuan]

...you can't win here, can you?

If you put astral on your pretender, they are vulnerable to Magic Duel. Tons of low level s1 mages will eventually take down anybody.

On the other hand, if you don't put astral on your pretender, they can't operate on their own without being subjected to mind hunt.

Thoughts about how you pick your poison are welcome.

time your retirement...

Your S pretender is safe from duel until it is researched and your enemy has move/teleport access to the god's location. Seeking arrow spam is another sc counter as is horror marking, claws, vod, etc. Of course there are counters to the counters but there are not enough slots to be untouchable. I keep an eye on the research graph and the neighbors and at some point move the big fella/gal off the front line unless there is a compelling risk vs reward reason to keep your god in a war zone.

My $0.02
ssj

[Shardphoenix]

If you put astral on your pretender, they are vulnerable to Magic Duel. If you put really high astral on your pretender (like 7+) - enemy will have to throw at you his best astral mages at large quantities. I doubt if it`s really possible for s1 mage to harm your s9 pretender.
Anyway, it`s much easier to spam Soul slay until it works.
Also, with d3 you can just summon a spectre (stealthy mage with some astral) and make him sneak with your pretender to avoid mindhunts.
(and those penetration items will cost your enemies a fortune so it is highly unlikely for them to be even cost effective to kill your pretender)
You can always find uses for penetration-boosted s4 mage. :)

[JonBrave]

I'm sorry if I've posted similar elsewhere and can't get the answer through my head, but.....

You've got:

Magic Duel
Mind Hunt
Mind Burn (from MH)
Soul Slay (from MH)
Others...

Of these, is it only Magic Duel which ignores all boosters, spells etc. and compares native Astral levels alone (for the fight part)? (I believe the Mind-Hunt-cord-detection roll might also ignore boosters?) I seem to get stuck on this...

Also, do things like Luck or Anti-Magic help? Is it that they have no effect in Magic Duel, but do affect the other stuff?

:doh:

It would be nice to have a really concise, definite answer!

[Kobal2]

I doubt if it`s really possible for s1 mage to harm your s9 pretender.

It's not. Magic duel is 1d6+base astral, and the roll isn't open ended. With 6 a tie is still possible, 7+ and you're 100% safe from s1 mages. But beware those s2s still, and even with 9 an s3 could do you in.
That said, I kinda doubt anyone's going to send a precious s3 mage (or rather, a dozen of them) to attempt a do-or-die trick that only works 1/36 times... unless they have nothing else to lose of course.

[JonBrave]

I doubt if it`s really possible for s1 mage to harm your s9 pretender.

It's not. Magic duel is 1d6+base astral, and the roll isn't open ended. With 6 a tie is still possible, 7+ and you're 100% safe from s1 mages. But beware those s2s still, and even with 9 an s3 could do you in.

Err, no, if you are S9 you are safe from any S3, following your own correct reasoning? S7 safe from S1, S8 safe from S2, S9 safe even from S3.

[Shardphoenix]

That said, I kinda doubt anyone's going to send a precious s3 mage (or rather, a dozen of them) to attempt a do-or-die trick that only works 1/36 times...
This.
And if your pretender dies after a dozen attempts - i`d say he already accomplished his mission.

[Kobal2]

I doubt if it`s really possible for s1 mage to harm your s9 pretender.

It's not. Magic duel is 1d6+base astral, and the roll isn't open ended. With 6 a tie is still possible, 7+ and you're 100% safe from s1 mages. But beware those s2s still, and even with 9 an s3 could do you in.

Err, no, if you are S9 you are safe from any S3, following your own correct reasoning? S7 safe from S1, S8 safe from S2, S9 safe even from S3.

Errr, yes, quite so ! :doh: Not safe from S4 then. Making it even more of a longshot anyone's ever trying it on you :)

[Valerius]

I'm fond of stealthy pretenders like the Master Druid (even better is the Arch Druid available to some nations). If it's early in the game and you're out site searching you'll only be visible the turn you search - by the time an attack comes you'll have snuck away again. And while your pretender probably has better things to do, in a pinch they can provide mind hunt protection if you've had bad luck with spectres (I've sometimes had to spend 80-100 gems before I got one with an S random) or just haven't research Conj. 6.

Later on, casting ritual of returning and equipping an exilir of life will let you survive a magic duel (though of course you may come out of it with an affliction).

[Corinthian]

I think you are all overestimating the dangers of magic duel to a rainbow site searcher. You only need to give the rainbow two pearls and have him scripted to cast returning. (thaum 1?)Because he as the defender gets to cast first he will be teleported back to the capitol and the would be assassins will be eaten by the PD.

Only combat pretenders are vulnerable to magic duel, really.

[sansanjuan]

I think you are all overestimating the dangers of magic duel to a rainbow site searcher. You only need to give the rainbow two pearls and have him scripted to cast returning. (thaum 1?)Because he as the defender gets to cast first he will be teleported back to the capitol and the would be assassins will be eaten by the PD.

Only combat pretenders are vulnerable to magic duel, really.

True, though 'ware the seeking arrows...
ssj

[tratorix]

I think you are all overestimating the dangers of magic duel to a rainbow site searcher. You only need to give the rainbow two pearls and have him scripted to cast returning. (thaum 1?)Because he as the defender gets to cast first he will be teleported back to the capitol and the would be assassins will be eaten by the PD.

Only combat pretenders are vulnerable to magic duel, really.

True, though 'ware the seeking arrows...
ssj

Seeking arrow only does 8 damage, even a human rainbow should be able to easily eat that in friendly dom.

[Shardphoenix]

Seeking arrow only does 8 damage, even a human rainbow should be able to easily eat that in friendly dom.
What about, say, 5-6 seeking arrows?

[Knai]

Seeking arrow only does 8 damage, even a human rainbow should be able to easily eat that in friendly dom.
What about, say, 5-6 seeking arrows?

Not broadcasting your position makes that somewhat difficult to land. Plus, there is the air shield item.

[Soyweiser]

Not broadcasting your position makes that somewhat difficult to land. Plus, there is the air shield item.

Rainbow pretenders are really easy to spot if you have basic scouting. And nobody ever gives them the air shield item. So blast away with the arrows. (And always use overkill, you really do not want to leave the pretender hanging with 2 hp).

[Shardphoenix]

Rainbow pretenders are really easy to spot if you have basic scouting. And nobody ever gives them the air shield item. So blast away with the arrows. (And always use overkill, you really do not want to leave the pretender hanging with 2 hp). I guess, that`s why a werewolf queen looks like a crone, then. :)

[Soyweiser]

Scouting gives the "blabla the blablachassis radiates with power" or something. And rainbows have very high chances of getting listed in that. (do not know the exact scouting listing mechanics).

[Valerius]

I think you are all overestimating the dangers of magic duel to a rainbow site searcher. You only need to give the rainbow two pearls and have him scripted to cast returning. (thaum 1?)Because he as the defender gets to cast first he will be teleported back to the capitol and the would be assassins will be eaten by the PD.

Very good point. I meant to mention returning. This is a good thing to research ASAP, just as much to avoid your pretender being killed by a random indie attack as by another player.


As regards seeking arrows, I think if your rainbow isn't stealthy it makes sense to accompany them with a couple of scouts or other indie commanders. That's a fairly small price to pay for considerable added security.

[Corinthian]

I once lost an air queen to seeking arrows. :(

[sansanjuan]

I once had all 3 kitted air queens at mr 22 to 24 fall to boosted/spammed mind hunts in the space of a few turns. Tried teleporting my rare astral Mage in for blocking once but didn't land before the queen was toasted. Should have made flying/stealthy (astral) scepters as silent raiding partners..
ssj