Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 6/8 Players Remaining

[Minor Kitty]

This game is intended to be a entry level game. To give some guidance I would say fewer than 10 MP games is a good cutoff point. I've got no experience but I'm sure that human players can't be much harder than AIs.

Players 10, Hosted on Llamaserver
Map: Cradle of Dominion

CBM 1.94
Assimilation 1.1 (needs patching for EA but otherwise fine)
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46696&highlight=assimilation

Proposed Rules:
Research: Standard
Gold: 400
Starting provinces: 1
Sites: 75
Hosting: Every 24 hours for 21 turns, then votes can be called for a change
All others' standard.

Diplomacy: Trades binding. Doubtlessly word shall reach every tavern that a pretender has dishonored him/herself by breaking a treaty (that is I or the admin will message everyone about it).

Assimilation mod allows the recruitment of some flavor units (but never elite) from the capitals of conquered nations.

All standard exploits banned: Bogarus orders, autospawn locking forts, filling labs, pining armies with retreating scouts.

All nations free.

Players (6/8)
American Foreign Policy: Abysia
Ossa: Marignon
Tivavals: Agartha
Hereward: Vanheim
Ossa: Ulm
Sluagh: Ermor
Krpeter: Bandar Log
Googly1: Mictlan

[galahad]

I would like to join with the Coming of the Capricorns: Oceania.

Havent played an underwater nation yet, time to give it a try. :cool:

[Ossa]

I'd like to join with Marignon.

[Tiavals]

Agartha for me, if I can join. I haven't actually finished 10 multiplayer games, but I've started roughly that amount. :)

[Hereward]

Hail, I submit myself with Vanheim. First real MP game.

[parone]

ill take ulm. been in 5 mp or so. been owned in each and every one of them

[krpeters]

Seeing as we have both Marignon and Oceania playing, I assume we're in MA.

I've played half a dozen MP games, but I suck. I have a strategy for Bandar Log I'd like to try. But what I really need is an anti-SC strategy. How do you take out an SC who buffs himself in the back for the first 5 turns, making it impossible for you to stellar cascade him?

[parone]

krpeters, im with you. im almost helpless vs SC.

our host, however, has some good tips vs minor thugs

[Tiavals]

Use flying troops that attack him before he can buff himself(provided he doesn't have bodyguards). That way he must melee and can't cast.

Also, using thugs is good too, if he's geared against normal dudes. Mistform and etherealness are useless against magic weapons, and armor is useless against armor negating and piercing weapons. Get multiple attacks if possible to lower defense, or attack upgrade items.

As for spells, immobilization and such spells work well with thugs, since it lowers defence, which is the biggest problem for thugs against SCs.

If you feel lucky, you can use those insta-kill crossbows and armor negating crossbows and so on.

All in all, magic items is the way to go, I think.

Then again, I've never truly faced any SCs in a game, this is just extrapolation. :P

[Minor Kitty]

Let's see Berserker pelt: 5 nature gems that can be forged by indies

Dual weld AP/affliction weapons : 10 earth gems/10 virgins, forged by most low level guys or indie earth mages.

A mounted/large chassis: 50-100g

PD/party: 150g-250g

Add in a load of small guys to swarm the SC and take hits from your thug and you can kill most early-mid level guys this way.
Feel free to tweak it with more thugs/better equipped ones or w/e.
A bonus if the swarm is summoned since it won't affect the thug's unit morale, but then you'd have to bring support units. Ideally you get swarm which costs 1N to cast at ALT LVL 4, doable by any indy mage: 20 little buggers to take hits and bring down DEF.

Total cost: 5 earth gems + 10 variety gems, and 200-300g
Doable for any nation even with indies for a party(PD if you prefer), disposable and it could be re-equipped as a raiding party.



Tag team of 2x2 scouts with piercers and vine bows (fire bolas/bane fire crossbows if no nature). 2 vines to immobilize and 2 piercers to kill. You can have them with your army or hidden for a nasty surprise and all it requires is level 2 in cons. Upgrade it into mid game with ethereal crossbow for an additional 10 gems(vision's foe for air if astral's not available) from cons 4 and eyes of aiming.

That's right, stealthy teams of scouts that are impossible to target individually in your PD crowds. Paranoia much?

Total cost: 80g,10 nature gems ,and 10 variety gems. (+10 astral mid game)

Scalable throughout the game, requires no castle recruits and can be mass produced on the fly. Fold them back into your army as elephant/Calvary killers after your done.


Note the emphasis on reaction time and nature gems/mages. Something everyone has that can be produced on the fly as opposed to ad hoc responses that require time and money to setup.

An early to mid game SC is usually fully decked out at the cost of 5-10 gems per slot and considerable recruiting/summoning cost. That's roughly 50 gems worth of equipment they have to construct with 7 mage turns and get to the front. That's a few hundred gold, dozens of research pts, and upkeep they could be using elsewhere while you create a counter in a single turn for much less.

By late game I expect you to have your own counter SCs or be dead.

[Sluagh]

Hey, I'd like to claim Ermor.

Currently the game I'm hosting is my first MP game, so colour this my second. I have no life, so I should be able to play both games with equal love and affection.

[Hereward]

Did krpeters volunteer with bandar? The wording of the post is a bit ambiguous but I thought they had put themselves forward...

[Minor Kitty]

Until they say something along the lines of I'm in their OP are considered to be questions in the wrong place.

[krpeters]

Hmmm, so go after SCs with cheaper thugs... that's a possibility I'll have to try.

Anyway, sign me up for Bandar Log, let's see what these monkeys can do :)

[krpeters]

So... is there any hope of getting this game going? Kinda quiet at the moment!

[parone]

i can't even get the mods installed. so more time is better for me. have a specialist(my brother) coming tues. so i can't start till then anyway. have spent some very frustrating time with it. do i have to uninstall 1.92 to get the game to recognize 1.94? that would seem counter intuitive

[Minor Kitty]

It's best just to wipe out CBM 1.92, but I have it installed alongside 1.94 and so far so good. And yes I will get it started, I don't mind 8 ppl.

The game will be called Middle Age Crisis, feel free to submit we'll start when they are all submitted.

[Tiavals]

parone, installing mods should be easy, unless something strange is going on.

A short guide:
1. Download the mods you want.
2. Put them to dominions3/mods/
3. Unpack them, if they are zipped. (They should NOT be in their own folders, but on the base folder, for example dominions3/mods/CB1.94.dm, NOT dominions3/mods/CB1.94/CB1.94.dm)
4. Star the game.
5. Once inside, go to Preferences, then to Mod Preferences. Then Enable the mods you want used(1.94) and disable the others.

If you have done all this and it doesn't work, then something bizarre is going on.

[parone]

tivals, thanks. yes indeed, something odd is going on. and seems to go on every time i try to install a mod. sometimes my bro can fix it, sometimes he can't. we'll give it a go tommorrow

[googly1]

Hi I would like to play as Mictalan. I have played 4 mp games so far..

[parone]

i beleive my brother has me set up. thank god he is a computer professional. should be able to submit this pm

[parone]

crap. how do i send in my pretender again? i can't remmember. it really has been a long time.

[Sluagh]

Check the sticky section for information on playing/making games. A brief answer, though, is that you go to llamaserver.net (I think), find the game name, then set the subject of your email to pretenders@llamaserver.net as whatever the name of the game is.

After that you send your pretender file (located in saves, newlords) as an attachment.

[krpeters]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=529316&postcount=2

[parone]

thanks for the help boys. i think im good to go.

did we ever decide on graphs on/off? i vote for off, myself.

good luck all

[Sluagh]

Going to vote for keeping graphs, as they add a neat dimension to the game, and plotting, and ego, and therein and theresuch.

[Minor Kitty]

I personally prefer no graphs, that way scouting and communication (or deceit) pays off more

[parone]

hey kitty

are you minor kitty, or american foreign policy? also, are you pythium, or abysia?

[Sluagh]

Actually, I'm going to agree with you. I haven't made scouting a priority in the past, and wouldn't be adversed to trying that out.

[Minor Kitty]

hey kitty

are you minor kitty, or american foreign policy? also, are you pythium, or abysia?


Minor Kitty, excuse the AFP name. Just newbness in thinking that my in-game name was supposed to be listed. Also in accordance with the theme of American Foreign Policy, I'm the fiery Abysia,

Anyways we are just missing Galahad: Oceania. But 8 is sufficient to start with

[galahad]

im sorry guys, but i have to pull out of the game :/ im getting busier these months and i wouldnt want to start staling or look for a sub in early mid-game... wish you happy fighting though.

[krpeters]

Well that was bizzare. I had to rename assimilation from "Assimilation - Mid" to "Assimiliation_Mid". Do I have the right version?

[krpeters]

BTW, a newbie tip to all: if you're the last person to go, wait 15 minutes, and you can go again.

(hint hint: Mictlan / Ulm)

[parone]

boys i might need an extension. something very odd is going on with my dominions game.

[parone]

krepters, did renaming it work? i have sorted out my problems, but now the game is rejecting my assimilation mod

[parone]

holy crap, that weren't easy. krpeters, thanks for your post. i think renaming it did the trick. hopefully it'll be smooth sailing here on in(except for my armies getting slaughtered, but hey, im expecting that)

[Minor Kitty]

Well testing Abysia in SP, I've developed a new hatred for barbarians. It seems like they are the only common indie that can do serious damage (sure elephants and knights are there but they are rare and restricted to farm provinces).

[parone]

hmmm. all turns in, but it didnt host...

[krpeters]

The AI is funny. My troops come up to a pack of Icthyids, mixed net throwers and shield carriers. Guess which squad my archers decide to shoot at? Yeah, they fling all their arrows uselessly at the shielded guys and let the net guys chew up my troops.

OK, time to switch tactics for a while. I have to protect myself from the AI's stupiditly.

[Sluagh]

Just wait until you get to play with communion scripting! Hehehe.

[parone]

anyone else having trouble getting their turns? i keep having to go to llamaserver and requesting resend, even though i have not gotten it yet

[krpeters]

No trouble here; the only problem I've had is indies killing my monkeys. Elephants do a much better job :)

[Sluagh]

No trouble here either. Are the emails being sent to your spam folder? Just trying to think of which end the problem lies on.

[parone]

oddly, i have received 6 turns correctly, and two never showed up. last turn came in ok. as long as i remain vigilant, i should be ok.

[parone]

fire in the water?

[Minor Kitty]

Well isn't the purpose of pretenders to cover your weakness? A water breathing SC can do wonders.

[parone]

for a war game things seem...quite peaceful

[Hereward]

I think there is quite a high number of provinces to players, which makes people less inclined to early war. The positioning is interesting; we are quite bunched up in the northwest, whereas Ermor and Mictlan I think have a large area to themselves. The south continent I know less about, I know Abysia and Marignon are there in some configuration, and I assume Bandar is down there too, but that is guesswork.

[parone]

i think your right hereward. it is unlikely there will be any quick kills in this one.

[Hereward]

Agartha just staled I think, unless they submitted at the last minute?

[parone]

none of his dudes moved. they took this month off

[Tiavals]

Sigh, I made my turn but it seems I forgot to send it. :P

Quite vexing.

[parone]

keep an eye on llamaserver tiavals. twice i have sent my turn, but had to resend it. i have never had these problems with turn and 2h files, but i am having them here.

[Sluagh]

Gosh Hereward, you should be writing an LP out of this game :P

[Tiavals]

keep an eye on llamaserver tiavals. twice i have sent my turn, but had to resend it. i have never had these problems with turn and 2h files, but i am having them here.

Interesting, I'll keep it in mind, thanks.

[parone]

any of you guys on the east coast? power may be out for awhile, so please keep an eye on turn files. we are getting the crap kicked out of us-but still have power. sent in my turn quick, just in case

[Sluagh]

Yeah, it's a jungle out there. Had to ride my bike through 17 kilometers of downpour to get to/from work.

edit: Wahahahahaha, thought this was the thread to the game I was admining. I will NOT be turning anything off! XD

[parone]

got internet back. Ulm is back in the game!

[parone]

well kitty, let's hope you are less polished with abysia than Arco. usually people in their first MP aren't writing guides!!!

[Hereward]

Bandar aka krpeters have staled their last 2 or 3 turns and looks like they are going to stale this one. I tried PMing them but looks like they are properly away. What shall we do?

[parone]

should prob post-pone, look for sub. early in game, and i don't think bandar is in any trouble. perhaps krpeters lost power. give him a few days, if he doesn't resurface, we sub-hunt.

not much is going on in this game anyway, so a brief intermission won't hurt.

[googly1]

I will be away for the next 3 days from tomorrow. Can we please wait for me to come back.
Thanks.

[Minor Kitty]

I'm fine if 2 more people agree (50%)

Slash that, with Kalisa also away we will postpone, 24 hrs has been added , another 24 tomorrow if nothing changes, and another 24 after that.

[Minor Kitty]

well kitty, let's hope you are less polished with abysia than Arco. usually people in their first MP aren't writing guides!!!

I hate Abysia, no flexibility. Also the guide was purely theoretical, no experience. Regret taking it.

[parone]

hey, we are on vacation!!!

[Hereward]

Well then kitty, It's a good thing you organised an assimilation game, all you need to do is conquer a capital and you get your wished for variety :)

[Sluagh]

Glorious Unbroken Ermorian Eternal Empire agrees to postponing; may we all use our extra time to increase the solidarity between our Departments of Glorious Unbroken Beurocracy by sharing many thousands of bundles of paperwork.

[parone]

hmmm. no krpeters, no bites on subs...bummer. but atleast i don't have to get off my fanny and do my turn

[krpeters]

Hello all, I'm back. Sandy took down power & internet for several days.

I can get a turn by tomorrow. How hopeless is my position now? Hopefully nobody tried to eat me while I was away.

[parone]

as far as we know, no one has even located you yet!

[parone]

kudos to hereward for noticing krpeters had been 'washed away' for awhile. good job, hereward

[parone]

bandar/mictlan stale...im afraid

[krpeters]

Staled by accident... it's been a confusing several days.

I'll try to stay on top of it. At least this weekend should be ok.

[krpeters]

Bandar Log is offering 1 nature gem for every gallon of gasoline :)

[parone]

hmm. you can certainly be excused, krpeters. dunno what happened to mictlan.

kitty, as admin, maybe you can keep an eye out for krpeteres and if it looks like he is gonna stale, postpone? and if anyone needs an extension, of course, feel free to ask.

[parone]

actually, googly requested a delay, now that i look back. until he acknowledges he's back i suggest we do not run anymore turns.

[krpeters]

Putting things on hold for a few days until sanity returns sounds like a good idea to me too.

[parone]

kitty, do you copy?

[Minor Kitty]

24 hrs

[krpeters]

I need an extension. I can't download from my yahoo email this morning, and I won't have time to play a turn tonight.

How do I go about switching my email for the game?

[Ragnarok-X]

Write your new email @ to the games administrator. He can change emails associated with nations in the game.

[Minor Kitty]

24 hrs

[krpeters]

I apologize for the delay... I was able to download the turn this evening. I don't know what was wrong with yahoo mail this morning, but it is working now.

[Sluagh]

Can we extend the hosting interval to 36 hours? I feel that given game progression, and how many people are stalling, this is at least appropriate.

[krpeters]

36 hrs sounds reasonable to me. But llamaserver is down right now anyway.

[krpeters]

It looks like llamaserver is back. Funny that I should run into trouble with both my email and the server on the same day. Is something going around?

[parone]

is it back really? does not show turns in. i asked for it to resend mine, and nothing...odd

[parone]

googly, you still with us?

[parone]

kitty can you check the turn files and see if mictlan is staling consistantly?

[parone]

anyone have any idea why our game simply refuses to host/send out turn 25?

[Sluagh]

I assumed we were searching for a sub for Mictlan, since Googly shows signs of stalling

[Minor Kitty]

Googly seems fine, only staled once. He is in a hurricane affected area so I'll give him 24hrs and try to contact him

Also Parone llamaserver automatically delayed by 24 hrs due to the servers losing power and now I'm adding another 24hrs.

[parone]

oh. i thought krpeters was hurricane ravaged and googly was traveling. i got my delays crosswired...

[parone]

game failed to host again

[krpeters]

I did stale repeatedly due to hurricane probs, but I'm back now.

[parone]

lets just call this game an 8 way tie for victory!

[parone]

kitty, have you heard from googly at all?

[Hereward]

So what appears to have happened is, googly requested a 3-day extend on october 31st, received it, returned when he said he would - we all played our turns, it last hosted on the 5th - and then googly disappeared again. I don't know about the current power situation in the US, but assuming he is even in the U.S, it seems very unlikely that he would have power on the 4th-5th but lose it again after that. What do people think we should do in this situation where he seems to have just disappeared without notification?

[parone]

i think we need a sub. this game hasn't hosted in what? a week? and it would have to stall on THE turn you slapped me around, hereward, so i can't get the taste of THAT out of my mouth!

seriously, i think a sub is in order. googs is non communicado. also, minor kitty-if you are adminning in the future, generally you inform players if you are going to continually delay. it's no big deal, just usually how it's done.

[Hereward]

It's amazing what 3 arrows and 2 tiny province defences did isn't it? :)

[parone]

that is the second time i have been 'seeking arrowed' by vanheim. it is such a ninja move, that while it is humbling, i don't even mind it. of course, my whole "superscouts get routed by their weak *** bird allies"-that was a bit irritating. but hey, my own silliness is often a drag. that's why we are newbies, i guess.

[Hereward]

It was a great move and it should have worked, the scout attack. Anyway last turn was nothing compared to this one, mwahahaha

[parone]

yeah, i thought things were gonna actually get better!!! ahh well, i was told before that ulm had severe weaknesses. now i am learning first hand.

[Hereward]

You've played them before in MP though right? I am finding out Van's weaknesses also; apparently I just can't field as many men as you, by half... anyway, obviously you are still in it, I look forward to a good war :D

[Hereward]

What does everyone else think about finding a sub for googly?

[parone]

i think we need a sub. yeah, i have played them in MP. im actually an Ulm addict. usually their weaknesses don't show up till late midgame, but you got me early.

yeah, it ain't over. im gonna try to bring you down with me in a black steel embrace!!

[Minor Kitty]

Well my Warlocks are dropping like flies, I need more research next time.

[Hereward]

Kitty do you think we should find a sub for googly?

[Smeghead]

If you guys are looking for a sub, I'll give it a go.
I've been reading and watching tutorials and playing against the AI for a few weeks and would like to try PBEM.

[Sluagh]

Support.

[googly1]

I should say the reason i stopped playing was because I asked for a delay when i went away for 3 days and not only did you not wait for me to come back but I got attacked by ermor whilst I was away.
feel free to find a sub for me.

[parone]

smeg, thanks for subbing in. googly is right, he did ask for a delay, but i think it went unnoticed. it was an error. i think he had only staled one turn though. now it may be two.

ermor may be willing to diplo to get you back on your feet a bit. send minor kitty your email and we will get them switched out.

googly, sorry for the mix up. i think kitty must have just missed your request. perhaps another game?

[Hereward]

Damn we were not aware that this happened googly. Was it due to a miscommunication between you and kitty? Was the 3-day thing just ignored or was it a matter of hosting taking place just a day or something early? Because I think we definitely did delay for around 3 days at that time, maybe you missed one turn? You are welcome back, and of course agartha is at war with ermor as well as you, so you are not in a hopeless situation at all.

If googly doesn't want to return I vote smeg in fo sho.

[Hereward]

We are hella synced parone, it is a shame we have to fight to the death.

[parone]

in this war hereward. but perhaps in another we shall be allies!

[parone]

kitty, if smeg is subbing in, we need to delay hosting until he can get set up. if googs is still with us, hopefully he gets it in. but i think we should delay until we know what we are doing.

[Minor Kitty]

yeah yeah send in your email, I'm pretty sure I delayed for 2x24hrs, just missed the last 24hrs part of it was just due to the whole mess with llama server going down. It doesn't sound like googly is sticking around regardless. Also nothing says that I can't just roll back the game for a turn.

Anyways I guess whoever gets to me first.

[Hereward]

Except that roll backs are hella risky apparently, also it would completely mess up certain events of the past 2 turns which have been game changing

[Tiavals]

Definitely no rollbacks. I firsthand saw how it destroyed a game so badly it had to be completely restarted from the beginning. It has too many things that can go wrong with it.


Anyway, regarding the Ermorian war, wink wink, nudge nudge, might want to attack the bones while they're still at war with me, since later on you won't have a chance as good as this. ;)

[Hereward]

Yeah we should probably just get smeg in asap

[Smeghead]

The game is asking me to install "Assimilation_Mid.dm".
I'm copying my "Assimilation-Mid.dm" file to a new file, "Assimilation_Mid.dm" and will see if that works.

Edit: Well, that didn't work.
Where do I pick up the "Assimilation_Mid.dm" file?

[Sluagh]

For me I had to rename the file to the one specified for it to work. Hope that helps.

[Smeghead]

Well, I tried copying the file and renaming it but that's not working.
It keeps displaying as "Assimilation - Mid" in the mod preferences screen, no matter what I name it; even if I name it "XYZ".
And Dominions 3 keeps asking for "Assimilation_Mid".

Hmmmm.

[Sluagh]

When you say you're copying it do you mean leaving the original file in place?

[Smeghead]

Yes, I'm leaving the original file in place; just copying it to a new file.
Oddly, no matter what I call the second file, two identical options "Assimilation - Mid" then appear in the mod preferences screen.

[Sluagh]

My dominions 3 mods folder contains the Assimilation folder, a (probably useless) Assimilation - Late.dm file, and a file I renamed to Assimilation_Mid.dm.

If you're saying that you have both Assimilation - Mid.dm and Assimilation_Mid.dm it probably means it's only 'seeing' the first one.

[Smeghead]

Ok, for some reason copying it doesn't work.
Needed to rename it.
It appears to work now; thanks for your help, Sluagh.

[Smeghead]

Aaargh.
Googly1 set a password.
Game won't let me play.

[Sluagh]

For the sake of security you should probably be the one who messages them for the password.

[Smeghead]

Yes, I clicked on googly's nametag but there is no option to send googly a private message.

[Sluagh]

Damn. These forums, if I remember, have 'accept no PMs' as a default setting for accounts. I'll try and chase them down with a post or two in any other games he's in.

[parone]

sluagh and smeg, hats off to you two for trying to work this out

[Sluagh]

Thanks parone. I've dropped a message into two of the games they're playing in, and hopefully we'll get a reply soon.

[parone]

mictlan staled again. i propose we delay indefinitley until a sub can be located. i guess the sub we thought we had is for another game?

every stale makes mictlan's position less attractive, so lets just hold up until we get someone. othewise, we aren't going to get anyone.

[Smeghead]

parone,

I've been leaving messages in both threads about what's going on with the
Mictlan position.
googly1 has Password protect on, so there's no way for me to process the turn. I don't know the password.
Also, googly1 has Private Messaging off, so there's no way to contact him.

I've contacted Laamaserver and asked that the Mictlan position be set back to AI controlled.

[parone]

hmmm. that is very responsible. but i would prefer, if you are willing to sub, that we wait and try to get you in there. you would be INFINITELY better than ai

[Sluagh]

Agreed. Please delay.

[Ossa]

Let it be known that American Foreign Policy's word is not worth the breath it is spoken in.
He broke his NAP with Marignon without notice or warning. Wish we would have heeded Ulms call to arms instead of staying with our supposed ally.

[parone]

ahh the irony. AFP informed me of war(that's when i started looking for allies) and then when i reminded him of our NAP he was most honorable.

the tides of war can be strange indeed...

[krpeters]

He might have forgotten he had a NAP? It's been confusing around here.
BTW, does the game administrator have the ability to override psswd protection? This is why it's generally a bad idea to password protect a llamaserver game.

But this is a newbie game, mistakes are expected!

[Minor Kitty]

Let it be known that American Foreign Policy's word is not worth the breath it is spoken in.
He broke his NAP with Marignon without notice or warning. Wish we would have heeded Ulms call to arms instead of staying with our supposed ally.

We never had a nap, I said it was profitable for us to be at peace, I did not accept any NAPs. I was non-committal because I was already plotting with Krpeters on invading Marrigon. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I accepted the NAP.

[Minor Kitty]

He might have forgotten he had a NAP? It's been confusing around here.
BTW, does the game administrator have the ability to override psswd protection? This is why it's generally a bad idea to password protect a llamaserver game.

But this is a newbie game, mistakes are expected!

No the admin doesn't have that power.


Look I didn't see what the problem was, I delay by 2 24hrs periods, only missed the last one because llamaserver went down. I apologize for that.

When googly complained I offered to roll back a turn, instead he took it personally and is forcing everyone else to wait by staling and withholding the password. I certainly won't be playing with him again, what's to say he won't have an in-game spat with someone else and decide to idle?

[Minor Kitty]

mictlan staled again. i propose we delay indefinitley until a sub can be located. i guess the sub we thought we had is for another game?

every stale makes mictlan's position less attractive, so lets just hold up until we get someone. othewise, we aren't going to get anyone.

Done, let's say delay by 72hrs, Also can Ermor stop beating on the idle guy, it's kinda cheap.

[parone]

sounds good kat. i suppose it all rides on whether or not googs will give up his password...

[Minor Kitty]

sounds good kat. i suppose it all rides on whether or not googs will give up his password...

His spat's with me, it's not fair to everyone else.

[Ossa]

Unfortunatly we had our agreement ingame - I cannot prove with a saved message that you accepted the NAP. I still say you accepted and we had a NAP.

A well, meet your doom. Kalaisa's first army just met theirs.

[Sluagh]

Ermor cannot afford idle troops, watching at volcanoes.

[HoleyDooley]

Let it be known that American Foreign Policy's word is not worth the breath it is spoken in.
He broke his NAP with Marignon without notice or warning. Wish we would have heeded Ulms call to arms instead of staying with our supposed ally.

We never had a nap, I said it was profitable for us to be at peace, I did not accept any NAPs. I was non-committal because I was already plotting with Krpeters on invading Marrigon. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I accepted the NAP.


Minor, I would be pissed if you did that. I call it NAP breaking. Trying to be a smart arse with a reply giving the general appearance of "accepting" a NAP knowing that you actually didn't say that you did will get you a reputation very quickly. Oh, and its a rep you don't want to have, because people who know this will not make NAPs with you.

Because I have had similar things pulled on me previously, if I get an evasive reply, then I go back to the person confirming that we do NOT have a NAP....

Ossa on the other hand is a proven NAP breaker. Just FYI, don't make a NAP with him, because he will break it at his earliest convenience.

[Smeghead]

You guys might as well finish Mictlan off.

googly1 still hasn't replied and I'm tired of waiting.
I still don't have googly1's password and the turn emails are just cluttering up my intray; llama tells me he can't turn Mictlan to AI controlled without the password.
So, feel free to finish me off Sluagh.

[parone]

i didn't realize slaugh was actively destroying mictlan. asking smeg to take then now is prob not fair. also, the AI isn't much better than nothing, so let's not even worry about it.

roll on.

one thing, kitty, you might be able to force host it to get around waiting for mictlan, although i imagine most of us are gonna need almost all the time anyway.

good luck all. remmember how googly comported himself in this instance before you sign up with him again. bad manners is one thing-intentionally trying to derail a game for 7 other folks is just a nono.

[Minor Kitty]

Let it be known that American Foreign Policy's word is not worth the breath it is spoken in.
He broke his NAP with Marignon without notice or warning. Wish we would have heeded Ulms call to arms instead of staying with our supposed ally.

We never had a nap, I said it was profitable for us to be at peace, I did not accept any NAPs. I was non-committal because I was already plotting with Krpeters on invading Marrigon. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I accepted the NAP.


Minor, I would be pissed if you did that. I call it NAP breaking. Trying to be a smart arse with a reply giving the general appearance of "accepting" a NAP knowing that you actually didn't say that you did will get you a reputation very quickly. Oh, and its a rep you don't want to have, because people who know this will not make NAPs with you.

Because I have had similar things pulled on me previously, if I get an evasive reply, then I go back to the person confirming that we do NOT have a NAP....

Ossa on the other hand is a proven NAP breaker. Just FYI, don't make a NAP with him, because he will break it at his earliest convenience.

Well I'm new, I simply do not know these things. As shown with Parone I do honor my NAPs, I just wasn't aware that warm but non-committal language (experience from starcraft) counted, I thought it was diplomacy and fair gain.

I'll guess I'll just say no next time then.

Well I was getting used to saying "I'm looking forward to a profitable (for me) relationship between us"

[HoleyDooley]

I was a tad harsh in my comments, more than I intended, but giving misleading information will help you in one game, but hurt you in others.

Fool me once, your bad, fool me twice, my bad.

[parone]

hooley is right about game to game relations. however, most people would find your behaviour, while admittedly sneaky, acceptable. it has happened to me many times.

also, ossa, when someone refuses to committ to a formal NAP, in the future you should be carefull. it often means they may be gearing for war. and also ossa, since your record(like all of ours) is hardly exemplary, i think it would be sporting for you to let it go and fight on in good conscience.

if it makes anyone feel better about their own situation, hereward is using, of all things, excellent use of PD, as well as a superior understanding of movement mechanics, to make me look downright silly. so at least you are not me.

on with the war!

[parone]

wow. dunno what happened, but got my turn file, never opened it, then got another turn file. checked, the admin/staling and it seems only marignon got his turn in-

very odd. perhaps it has hosted again while i was writing this?

my guess is there is no password, and someone intentionally forced hosting in order to mess the game up.

[parone]

i was actually really enjoying this game(even though i thoroughly admit hereward was making me look silly).

however, what with the current situation vis a vis mictlan/staling etc we all might be better off calling it quits here. i am NOT dropping out, just floating the idea.

it is hard enough to keep a game going with a good group. with someone actively(apparently) trying to mess the game up, it seems not to be worth the trouble.

i will, however, abide by the group decision.

no matter what happens, i have met several very cool dudes in this game. there are always other games, hope to see you there.

[Minor Kitty]

Ok fixed, admin pass set, turning the clock back a turn/

[Tiavals]

Hopefully the turning the clock back didn't make the game go bye-bye as it's prone to do.

[parone]

kitty, do you think someone force hosted?

[Minor Kitty]

Hopefully the turning the clock back didn't make the game go bye-bye as it's prone to do.

Hmmm?

kitty, do you think someone force hosted?

I cannot say, I was quite surprised at the staling myself.

[Hereward]

We should probably make people aware of googly's behaviour. I am enjoying the game, so I hope we keep playing.

And I won't hear any of this talk of making you look silly parone, you are playing very well!

[parone]

thanks hereward, but our war reminds me a bit of the soviet union's invasion of finland.

actually, that DID eventually work out...

but seriously, i think the tally is one win for me...a lot for you!

it's is humbling, but instructive! thank god i have a lot more to work with, resource wise.

at least, i think i do...you craftly devil

[parone]

not gonna be able to get my turn in. need 24 hour extension please

[Minor Kitty]

sure

[parone]

will get it in around 9 tonight, for those of you itching to play...

[Hereward]

Whoa guys parone asked for 24 hrs but the hosting is set back to friday? That is 48 I'm pretty sure. I will also remind you that as Mictlan is still considered as being in the game, it will not host until the last moment.

[parone]

got it in. force host whenever. can we get mictlan AI? the guys over at invisionfree are trying to get ahold of googly, but i guess no luck there either.

ahhh googly

[googly1]

Hi sorry I didn't realize you needed my password until someone emailed me just now. my password is daves1.

[parone]

halleluja. thank you googs. sorry this game didn't work out. good luck elsewhere

[Hereward]

Sso I guess I vote we just turn Mictlan AI. I think the majority of its forces have already been destroyed.

[parone]

second!

[Sluagh]

Mictlan has one army that will be destroyed this turn if we don't find a sub. I'm willing to organize a pull out of my forces with someone who takes the position in exchange for some sort of peace agreement.

[Minor Kitty]

Sso I guess I vote we just turn Mictlan AI. I think the majority of its forces have already been destroyed.

Can't he has it password locked. Basically only he can do it.

Also I'm talking to Smeghead, see if he is still interested. Go easy on him K Ermor? You basically got the land against a AFK player.

[Sluagh]

Like I said, if the game's delayed until Smeghed can sub then I'm offering peace, and probably some of the provinces I took.

edit: googly1 mentioned his password is daves1

[Smeghead]

Sorry guys, I grew tired of waiting around set up my own game.
Good luck with Mictlan.

[parone]

cant blame you smeg. good luck elswhere. things in this game have gotten...wierd

[Minor Kitty]

AI it is then.

edit; set to AI

[parone]

wow. i am truly getting a steady diet of defeat.

of course, it might have been wise to take the time to actually rescript those 15 commanders...

you have to admit, hereward, Ulm can really take a punch! or even 10 of them

[krpeters]

It's a shame we don't have graphs enabled. You would have all gotten a treat. The good news is that I don't have any upkeep issues anymore :)

[parone]

LOL. thanks for that krpeters. i was getting lonely living over here in *****slapville.

i suppose for us, there is always the next game!

[krpeters]

Well, I'm not out of this one yet, not by a long shot.

"Eat all you want, we'll make more" -- my monkeys are fast breeders, they'll be back!

But yeah, losing comically is what newbie games are all about. Welcome to the club!

[parone]

any shot we could get the turn delay up to 36 hours? or 48? got it in tonight, but guaranteed im not gonna get two turns in this weekend. gotta work a ton

[Minor Kitty]

any shot we could get the turn delay up to 36 hours? or 48? got it in tonight, but guaranteed im not gonna get two turns in this weekend. gotta work a ton

done
36

[parone]

incidentally kitty, i have been meaning to compliment you on the game name. saying as im 40, and all

[Minor Kitty]

incidentally kitty, i have been meaning to compliment you on the game name. saying as im 40, and all

It's the only online name that is friendly with the people critical of America and those fiercely patriotic of America. Plus it makes for so many double entendres .

[Tiavals]

Could we postpone by 24 hours? I may need it.

[parone]

lol. i meant middle age crisis...

[krpeters]

Thanks for the extension. It's not easy getting a turn in on a Friday night :) I should have a turn in shortly.

[Sluagh]

Hey, I'm in a pinch. I'm going on a bike trip out to a friend's cottage in 6 hours, and won't be back for 62 hours or thereabouts. I know we've delayed a lot already, and hope I'm not causing too much trouble by asking for another delay. Completing this turn alone would probably take half of my packing time >_<

[Minor Kitty]

Well people I check in on this once a day, so I almost missed Sluagh's post. Delayed by 48 hrs, I'll check again in two days.

[krpeters]

Maybe it'd be a good idea to do an automatic extension on weekends. RL does compete :)

[Sluagh]

Woah, that was an amazing bike trip. Thanks for waiting, I really needed that :D

[krpeters]

Welcome back!

[parone]

there has been a lot of PED talk in cycling lately sluagh. i hope your clean...

[parone]

gonna try to do my turn after work tonight, but might need a 24 hour extension.

sorry guys. you should thank hereward, though. if he didn't keep killing Ulmish units by the 100s, id never get a turn in!

[parone]

well, that sucks. it was a bad turn to stale.

[parone]

hmmm. that stale has soured me up. kitty, im not sure what your policy vis a vis extensions are, but to be honest, when a guy stales, it tends to remove his interest from the game.

like mine is removed from this one.

[Hereward]

I am sorry you staled parone, and it must hurt when you asked for an extension, but as you can see your tactical situation did not suffer, I.e. I made no attacks etc. I know that it is still a harsh blow in terms of not having been able to do certain things, but you are still in a fairly good spot. I hope you do not leave the game, worthy opponent.

[krpeters]

It would be a good thing if the game administrator checked the board once a day... especially during holidays / weekends, when RL frequently gets in the way.

[Minor Kitty]

I try to, if you give me 24hrs warning I would get it since I check once a day, but if you get something like 1-12hrs I can't guarantee that I'd see it. You sent yours in 4hrs before the deadline at 9:30AM GMT+5, I was sleeping. If you gave me four hours warning that would mean that I have to check 6 even intervals a day to get that (not possible for anyone with day-time occupations or anyone who sleeps 8 hours). It's unfortunate that you staled but don't try to blame me when you gave me 4 hours worth of warning, and do you want a rollback?

[parone]

thanks kitty. but a roll back is likely to corrupt the game, as well as force everyone to redo their turn, which is no small inconvenience at this point.

this stale was really just awful timing. hereward and i have been fighting a tooth and nail conflict for the last 15-20 turns. i have more numbers/resources, and he has simply played smarter/better.

as such, it has resulted in an incredibly bloody, costly stalemate, but i have felt i was losing ground. i did, however, see one opportunity to turn the war around. i have spent the last 6 turns pouring everything into an attempt to take advantage of this opportunity-trying to move enough forces into position, borrowing assets from other players, making a desperate research push, and spending gems ruinously on conjurations/artifacts. the idea was to try and take our best shot before our window of opportunity closed.

anyway, i was attempting to do all this and launch the attack last turn, which was why i asked for the extension(normally, if i can't get a turn done, i just do a 5 minute blitz turn-which, by the way, is an awful idea). i tell you this not to *****, but so you know im not 'rage quiting' or just being a total wussy. staling last turn ruined about 6 turns of prep, and i honestly feel took away any real shot Ulm had at turning the war around.

im going to send in a turn file next turn, which will allow me to repay a few debts, then will go AI.

[parone]

tivavals and hereward, it has been very fun, and you guys were great to play with. hope to see you in other games.

one other thing:i have never gone AI before-is there anything in particular i should do?

[Minor Kitty]

Look if its that big then I'll resend the turn, geez you've been a good player. Tough it out. I'm sure most people wouldn't mind, a redone turn makes little difference to me Marrigon or Krpeter, van gave his consent and the only people who might mind are are Ermor and Agartha; I'll wait for their word.

Also its not just you, its for the rest of the players as well.

[parone]

cant really do that kitty. already sent van a PM explaining where the attack was going to fall as a kind of courtesy to him, so rolling back wont really help.

also, i find it a bit off putting that you would lecture me on doing what is right for the rest of the players. i have stuck out many, many bad situations to the last province in several games(since i stink as a player, i have gotten good at 'last stand').

as i stated in this thread, the timing was just horrendous.

an Admin's most important job is to prevent stales. most admins will go so far as to extend turn intervals even if a player doesn't ask for it, if it appears they are going to stale. the admin will then try to contact the player and see if it is a mistake or intentional, and then find a sub if needed. admining well is a lot of work.

that said, to deny multiple players extensions and force stales on them is not good for the 'rest of the players'. very few MP games will survive that type of admining. it cost this game two so far.

in any case, good luck. i did enjoy this game, there were some excellent players in it.

[parone]

ps i honestly have never gone AI in a MP game. do i need to do anything?

[Minor Kitty]

Like I said, I'm new. I made the reasonable assumption that the admin takes passive requests and that the onus is on the player. Still learning.

And I'd figure the lecturing would be uncomforting but I had to tell you what I saw ,it's still your choice to go AI. And all you have to do is go in options and set it to computer controlled.

[Man with No Name]

an Admin's most important job is to prevent stales.
The admin's most important job in ensuring the smooth running of the game. Which involves a number of things, but covers the likes of having an approprotate schedule in place for the stage the game is at (ie. one that increases as the game progresses and becomes more complex). That no players are struggling to submit their turns, and to be given some assistance and options if they are having trouble (eg. extending hosting for a period of time, which can help players that are busier than normal, such as having exams or deadlines). It also means trying to limit the frequency of delays, as for example it is usually a lot better all round to permanently extend a schedule by 24 hours, rather than keep adding 24 hour delays every other turn. The smoothness of regular hostings is usually to be prefered over how quickly turns rollover.

An admin should also try to make sure that the nation of any players who have excessive staling records, or have gone awol, are addressed and dealt with quickly in whatever manner deemed best by the admin. It is very common in these situations for the admin to ask the players what they think is the best course of action. (ie. find a sub, turn AI, leave to stale etc).

Sometimes there will be disputes between players, and it is the admins job to deal with those as fairly and impartially as he can. Luckily such disputes don't happen that often, but when they do, and when the players can't settle it amongst themselves, then it is the admin who has to step in and sort it out, and try to minimise the disruption to the overall game.

If the admin is also the person organising the game, then they should try to spend some time and effort before the game starts in making sure the game settings are clear in the first post, and that maps and mods are linked where applicable. They should also aim to minimise the chances of any players getting unfairly favoured or punished due to controllable factors. For example picking maps that either heavily advantage or disadvantge a lone water nation, or mistakenly assuming that random starts are in any way balanced. That is to say the game has NO built-in scripts to ensure that random starts are appropriate (ie. That capitals will have 4 or more neighbouring provinces). And there is effectively no concern for where capitals are located, or if they are evenly placed, apart from making sure they are not located next to each other. (ie. captals are placed anywehere the map commands allow. If there are no commands in the .map file relating to start locations, then players will literally start anywhere on the map)

There is a wide selection of maps available in the community, many of which have been modified to have random fixed starts. (eg. A map has been modified to have just 10 start locations, and any nation could start in any one of the fixed start locations. ie. Random starts, but in fixed locations). Admins, especially new ones, shouldn't be afraid of asking the community for help with selecting maps (and not just asking the players in the game), or even asking for help in modifiying maps. There are several helpful members in the Dominions community, often with years of experience in playing and modding. They also lurk a lot, so you can often just make a general request on a game thread (something like "Can any senior member suggest a good map for a 8 player game for new players"), and chances are someone will notice it. Although it doesn't hurt to go looking for help either, such as the IRC channel. Or even posting for help in the Maps scetion of the forum. (although please be aware that a lot of senior members of the community no longer post on the Shrapnel forum, or even visit it, so you might need to go elsewhere to get their help)

most admins will go so far as to extend turn intervals even if a player doesn't ask for it, if it appears they are going to stale.
That is nowhere near true. Some very selective admins do take steps to actively prevent players staling, usually by delaying hosting (without being asked by a player) to prevent an imminent stale by one or more players.

But for the vast majority of admins and MP games (we are talking 95%+), it is entirely the players own responsibility to submit turns before the deadline, and to ask for delays in a timely manner (the unofficial meaning of "timely manner" is usually a minimum of 24 hours in advance).

If you have experience of playing in games with admins who prevented stales with unrequested delays, then you need to realise that this is far from the normal procedure for most admins. Whatever lengths some admins might go to to prevent players staling is the exception to the norm, and you certainly shouldn't expect (or even demand it seems) for every admin to do take such preventative measures. As that is just being highly unrealistic, and very unreasonable. Admins have real lives, and real life time constraints, just like everyone else does.

the admin will then try to contact the player and see if it is a mistake or intentional, and then find a sub if needed.
Yse, most admins will (and should) do this.

admining well is a lot of work..
It is, and it can take a lot of experience and practice to get to that level. But admins shouldn't be chastised for failing to excel, and certainly not if they are doing an acceptable job. And there is an added unfairness if it's their first attempt at the job. (please note I have no infomation or stance on previous events in this game. Just that in this particular case, I see nothing the admin did wrong. Apart from not being at the computer every minute of every day to check for delay requests.)

[parone]

man with no name-

all good, valid points.

this was a situation, however, where the player had asked for a 24 hour delay and did not receive it.

that said, any admin(or player) would do well to read your take on things.

[Hereward]

So are we finding a sub?

[krpeters]

Two things on going AI:

1) It's generally discouraged because the AI plays so badly. Even a half-hearted effort by a player is usually superior.

2) Finding a sub for a losing position can be difficult. So in the interest of keeping the game moving along going AI could be better -- but it's always best to check with the admin first. Don't go AI if he thinks he can find someone.

[Minor Kitty]

Two things on going AI:

1) It's generally discouraged because the AI plays so badly. Even a half-hearted effort by a player is usually superior.

2) Finding a sub for a losing position can be difficult. So in the interest of keeping the game moving along going AI could be better -- but it's always best to check with the admin first. Don't go AI if he thinks he can find someone.

He isn't losing that badly, in terms of forces yes but he hasn't lost ground from his starting position. Ulm and I was in the tentative talks of an alliance against Van , it doesn't matter now.

Still Parone if you are going please PM me the password (if you have one) so I can find a sub.

[Tiavals]

It's unfortunate to see parone go, but if you have chosen to do so, then there's little to do.

[parone]

there is no password. i don't beleive in security...

[parone]

also, at this point, i would not want to sub into my position. three stales and me repaying some debts have gutted what was Ulm. you'd be better off going ai.

however, it's up to you.

[Hereward]

Also they will be plunged headfirst into a war; I cannot afford to give any grace period, as I am second to last in the graphs and fall behind in terms of resources every turn, thus must press on.

[parone]

guys, how do i go AI? seriously, what menu do i use?

[parone]

hmmm. i think i got it

[Tiavals]

There's a button in the options called "Become computer controlled", but since we are(I think?) looking for a sub, since some crazy person might want to test out mid-high level Ulm, you shouldn't press it yet.

[parone]

crap tiavals, i had already hit it. im sorry, didn't think a sub was in the loop.

[Man with No Name]

A nation is not permanently set to computer controlled until the turn hosts. So if the admin delays the game, and turns quickhost off, then that will allow a substitute player to send in a turn file to overwrite the orders to turn AI. (providing a sub can be found).

Re: sub hunting
Two things on going AI:
2) Finding a sub for a losing position can be difficult.
also, at this point, i would not want to sub into my position. three stales and me repaying some debts have gutted what was Ulm. you'd be better off going ai.

It is a common fallacy to assume that subs are hard to find for poor or hopeless postions, as the truth it usually the exact opposite of this. Since if a player knows their longterm commitment to the game is going to be short-lived, and with limited time requirements for turns, then it is quite likely that a player will sub in if it only means spending 5 minutes per turn for a dozen turns.

It is actually the good positions that are hard to find subs for, as in those cases a substitute player might have to commit an hour of more each turn for an indefinate period of time, and to a position and game they have no conection to or personal interest in. And finding a player willing to take on that level of fresh commitment can be very difficult, and almost impossible if a newbie isn't acceptable (for whatever raeson)

[parone]

i wonder, man with no name, what your name once might have been...

[krpeters]

I see the game is running again on the server. Did we find a sub?

[Sluagh]

Doubt it, I'm pretty certain they want AI.

Also, does anyone know if any of the mods we're using have been messed up by the recent update?

[parone]

sluagh, obviously im out of this, but i am in two others. one is all messed up, one is fine. it keeps asking me to install llamabanner.dm, even though it is already installed.

not sure how to fix it, let me know if you figure it out!

[krpeters]

Agartha's globals are getting a bit scary. Who other than Ermor is trying to keep him in check?

[Minor Kitty]

We found a sub, sorta. Ossa went from Marrigon to Ulm. Actually I'm pretty sure he is in control of both. I'm going to have to ask him to set Marrigon to AI, otherwise he is sockpuppeting I guess.

[krpeters]

I thought it was impossible for one player to play multiple nations in an MP game -- doesn't Dominions flag that and screw up your client if you try it?

[Tiavals]

Agartha's globals are getting a bit scary. Who other than Ermor is trying to keep him in check?

Agartha is peaceful. No smash Agartha. :(

[krpeters]

Lol!!!

[Minor Kitty]

We from Abysia find your Wrath of the sea an unprovoked sign of aggression, we will react accordingly.

Distasteful as it is, we of Abysia will be supporting Ermor.

Also Bogus do as you like with Ulm I no longer care.

[krpeters]

Double-LOL -- he just Wrath of the Sea. "Everyone please kill me now!!!"

[krpeters]

Hmmm... I feel bad about defeating Marignon's last army. My thugs killed his commanders and his beautiful cavalry all fled. I'm sorry about that, it wasn't intentional.

Well, at least we have the final castle invasion, that should be fun! C'mon Marignon, your mages should be able to fry a few of my thugs!

[Sluagh]

Heh, I might survive yet, even after stalling last turn XD

[Minor Kitty]

Gl, the only person that's really unaffected are Ermor and Ulm, who are minor powers at this point.

[Ossa]

Short Poll - may I continue the next two turns to watch Marignons end? I dont have spies there with Ulm and I'd like to see the finals.

[Tiavals]

Pishposh, I was casting globals since no one else was, and felt like a waste to see the list empty. If you don't like wrath of the sea, dispel it, just don't hate me for what I am. :(

Oh, and Agartha is looking defensive allies against the tyranny of Abysia.

[Sluagh]

Hey, just saw the situation I'm in and definitely need some extra time to breathe deeply and come up with a master strategy to not die. Can we get a 12 hour extension?

[krpeters]

D'oh!

Yeah, I forgot that monkey PD exists only to kill my own thugs... garrrr....

[krpeters]

I cannot help but giggle maniacally -- I am about to give new meaning to the phrase "more fun than a barrel of monkeys" ;->

[Minor Kitty]

oh geez, sry guys. Exam season, a bit hectic here. I'll try to check once a day

[krpeters]

Maybe we should increase the hosting interval on account of the upcoming holidays. 3 days? More?

[Minor Kitty]

yeah probably a good idea

[Hereward]

Kitty you should really tell people here when you extend an extra 2 days, what you have done and why etc.

[krpeters]

Communication is a good thing. What is the plan at present? When can we expect the game to restart?

[Tiavals]

Communication is a good thing. What is the plan at present? When can we expect the game to restart?

:confused:

[Hereward]

The game hosted and kitty staled, which is unfortunate, but Kitty had 5 days to do their turn in and could have delayed hosting at any time, so I trust the game will proceed as normal now.

[Hereward]

I just checked kitty's other game , it appears he gave admin to someone else and potentially left the game. Kitty if life is busy im sure me or tiavals would be happy to take over admin, also if you wish we could find a sub

[krpeters]

I got the impression his being too busy is a temporary thing... that said, the demands of being an admin are more serious than that of being a player. He needs to be able to stay in communication with us at the very least if he's going to admin. If he is going to return in a week or two, we may need a short term sub, or none at all if we can tolerate a few stales...depends on what pace we want during Xmas and all.

[krpeters]

OK, and I just learned an important lesson -- astral on thugs is *not* a good idea. Hmmmph. So undead thugs are out (maggots), astral thugs are out (astral duel), guess I need a plan C.

[parone]

astral thugs can be awesome(body ethereal etc) but you have to be carful of that nasty duel spell. that can be countered if they(your thugs) are fairly high S(that is hard) really mobile(to keep your enemy guessing) or you can escort them with a ton of low end astral mages(shamans come to mind).

all those counters are situational of course. but then, some nations have little access to astal themselves, so S thugs can be AWESOME. but you are right, it is defineately a double edged Sword

[krpeters]

"some nations have little access to astral" he says -- like Vanheim, right?

Indie mages are *such* a pain :-P

It's ok, I'll have some astral-free thugs in a few turns.