Greek OOB error and some omissions

[iln82]

Greek OOB 31 errors:

Unit 038 Leopard 2A4: it has an last availability date of 12/2010. That's clearly wrong; these tanks are still operational.
Original plans to modify them to Leo 2 HEL standards have been abandoned because of the poor financial state of the country.
Unit 009 AAV-7A1: Plans for their acquisition (from USMC stocks) have been abandoned.
Unit 003 M3 Stuart: Rumors that a number of M3A3 left behind by the British were used by the army during Civil War have been unfounded. (Unitill someone shows me a photo of one in Hellenic Army service I will consider it as BS).
Unit 079 M4A1 SP Mortar: Never used; only Halftrack variants used by the army were the M3 & M16.
Unit 089 M52A1 SPG: replaced by the M109 in 1977. Game has it available untill 1/00.
Unit 090 M44 SPG: Never used.
Unit 108 M3 Halftrack:Has first availability date 1/46. The vehicles were received after the end of the civil war. Don't know exact date, but 1/50 would be good enough.
Unit 114 Kentaurus APC: This was a private venture by ELBO. The Army evaluated it as an BMP-1 replacement but went for the BMP-3s instead. Only one was built and it was company-owned.

Now some omissions:

M16 SPAA: Used untill the mid 80s (in 4 colour camo; would make a great icon). First availability date should be same as M3 Halftrack

BMP-1 w/ZU-23, M113 w/M61, M113 w/ZU-23.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g420/andyjimgr/BMP-M113-SPAA.png

These were modified by Army workshops. Unfortunately I don't have any more details. Given that the Greek OOB has BMP-3s that will probably never be bought, I believe there is some space for those interesting modifications.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I haven't had a chance to look in the OOB but it appears the LEO 2A4 tanks are still in service (Along with some others.) if this site is good...
http://greekmilitary.net/greekmbtanks.htm
http://www.greekmilitary.net/cypriotmbt.html

On the M113 issue a little news from about 3 weeks ago...
http://www.janes.com/article/33283/us-approves-transfer-of-more-m113-apcs-to-greece?from_rss=1

It seems the M3 Halftrack served with the Greek Army until sometime after the Cold War-this I find interesting.

AMX-30 is still around in the upgraded form (Still in the reverves I believe, but on the way out.) of the AMX-30B2. This tank was a topic of discussion as I recall last year due to issues brought up that I believe were corrected in the last patch. Don't remember the issue but, I don't believe it concerned the Greeks either. But the following is a good "general" place to start when talking countries and land equipment...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/greece_hellenic_greek_army_military_equipment_uk/greece_hellenic_greek_army_land_ground_forces_mili tary_equipment_armoured_vehicle_weapons_informati. html

Finally a site I've held onto if for no other reason than to look into the "banter" between the Greeks and Turks on the site. However I did find it very useful in pointing me in the right direction concerning the Turkish units I submitted two and three years ago. I believe the ref will point to a page I used as a "map" at the time.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/248068/thread/1287781534/last-1287824423/Modern+equipment+Of+Turkish+defence+industries
I see now the site has been taken over the dirty rotten #+~%@*^s anyway I did/still have an account setup anyway, like here without it at the time you still had read privilages. Anyway worth it if you have an interest in that part of the world.

Regards,
Pat

Just checked SIPRI.org oldest order they show from U.S. to Greece was for 20 M8 GREYHOUNDs ordered in 1949 and delivered between 1950-1951. So M3 after WWII.

[iln82]

It seems the M3 Halftrack served with the Greek Army until sometime after the Cold War-this I find interesting.

I don't know what your source for this is, but it's full of BS.The M3 Halftracks were replaced by the M59s in the early 60s. By the time of the 1967 coup, they had all been scrapped.

AMX-30 is still around in the upgraded form (Still in the reverves I believe, but on the way out.) of the AMX-30B2.
A number of former Greek Army AMX-30 tanks were supplied to Cyprus in the 90s. The Cypriots upgraded them to AMX-30B2 standards. Remaining AMX tanks were placed in storage.Originally these were to have gone to Cyprus as well, but the Cypriots ordered the T-80s instead. That Army Recognition page that you listed is full of errors. (UR-416 Armoured Cars never operated by the Greek military or Police, AMX-30 tanks & AMX-30D ARVs, M52 SPGs,...etc long withdrawn from service.)

Just checked SIPRI.org oldest order they show from U.S. to Greece was for 20 M8 GREYHOUNDs ordered in 1949 and delivered between 1950-1951. So M3 after WWII.

Not just after WWII. AFTER the end of the Civil War. M3 Scout Cars, M24 tanks, M3 Half Tracks, M8 Armoured Cars and the like were supplied under the Mutual Defense Assistance Act beginning in 1950. The Greek Army already operated M8 Armoured Cars supplied by the British. I really don't know why you don't read my post and quote SIPRI instead...

[DRG]

I don't know what your source for this is, but it's full of BS...


No more of this. Be polite


Don

[iln82]

I don't know what your source for this is, but it's full of BS...


No more of this. Be polite


Don

I meant his source (that info about M3 Halftracks in service into the 90s was simply ridiculous), not him.
No idea why this was taken as an insult towards him...
I apologize if this caused any grief to the forum member.

[iln82]

And another omission:

Marmon Herrington Armored Car Mk IVF

It is surprising that these vehicles are in the Cyprus OOB yet they are missing from the Greek OOB, given that Greece was the supplier of theses vehicles to the Cypriot NG. It could be copied from Unit 020 of the Cyprus OOB. Availability dates should be the same as the M8 Greyhound (1/46 to 12/99).
I know it's too much to ask but the desert icon (Jordanian) looks a bit weird in a non desert map. Could you consider a green or camo icon for future releases?

[DRG]

And another omission:

Marmon Herrington Armored Car Mk IVF

It is surprising that these vehicles are in the Cyprus OOB yet they are missing from the Greek OOB........



So what's unit 630 in the Greek OOB ....................???

[iln82]

And another omission:

Marmon Herrington Armored Car Mk IVF

It is surprising that these vehicles are in the Cyprus OOB yet they are missing from the Greek OOB........



So what's unit 630 in the Greek OOB ....................???



:doh: Oops, my bad!!!

Just change the icon when you can.

TIA

[Suhiir]

Someone may have assumed since they were using M16 SPAA's till the mid 80's they were still using M3's as well.
Or perhaps they had some M3's in storage someplace (the way the USMC still has WW II M20 Bazookas).

[blatsas]

hi thiw is my first post and my english is not good
the oob253 in greece they have more weapons check this plz
http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zubr_(%CE%91%CE%B5%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%C F%89%CE%BC%CE%BD%CE%BF_%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%B2%CE %B1%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C)#.CE.A4.CE.B1_Zubr_.CF .83.CF.84.CE.BF_.CE.95.CE.BB.CE.BB.CE.B7.CE.BD.CE. B9.CE.BA.CF.8C_.CE.A0.CE.BF.CE.BB.CE.B5.CE.BC.CE.B 9.CE.BA.CF.8C_.CE.9D.CE.B1.CF.85.CF.84.CE.B9.CE.BA .CF.8C
or is other reason to use only that autocannos ?
thx

[Suhiir]

Looking at the Greek OOB I'd say:

There are no naval guns in the OOB (nor are they in most OOB's as WinSPMBT doesn't handle direct fire from naval units very well).

[Imp]

hi thiw is my first post and my english is not good
the oob253 in greece they have more weapons check this plz
http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zubr_(%CE%91%CE%B5%CF%81%CF%8C%CF%83%CF%84%CF%81%C F%89%CE%BC%CE%BD%CE%BF_%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%B2%CE %B1%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8C)#.CE.A4.CE.B1_Zubr_.CF .83.CF.84.CE.BF_.CE.95.CE.BB.CE.BB.CE.B7.CE.BD.CE. B9.CE.BA.CF.8C_.CE.A0.CE.BF.CE.BB.CE.B5.CE.BC.CE.B 9.CE.BA.CF.8C_.CE.9D.CE.B1.CF.85.CF.84.CE.B9.CE.BA .CF.8C
or is other reason to use only that autocannos ?
thx

I suppose you could add the SAMs, probably fired from the deck. Thing is they wont work if its moving. Best defence vs air is move as its quick & hope it picks another target. This thing is massive it cant hide.

The other armament is I think basically 2 salvos of rockets, intention being I guess to fire them before hitting shore to make it safer, same idea as landing ship uses.
If you were going to represent off map or naval MLRS type unit would probably be the best option

[blatsas]

i found and something else some mech inf have vision 10
and some special forces (marines&paratroopers )have vision 0 ans that is strange because the first upgrades take place in special forces
thx :)

[blatsas]

the oob 518 (AB-212ASW) is still in use
thx

[Warhero]

Unit 040 Leopard 2HEL has wrong icon (now helicopter Huey). Sorry if mentioned earlier;)...

[DRG]

Well, this is what it looks like in my master copy of the game and the Virgin Patched copy I use to test patch installs
and that doesn't look like a Huey to me
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12941&stc=1&d=1397834435

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

After my gaff about the WinSPWW2 graphics issue, I can report that I show the LEO 2HEL in my game as well.

Regards,
Pat

[Warhero]

Weird. I had that copter icon instead Leopard. But I just changed into right icon with Mobhack:)... So, case closed;).