Height Maps

[lukerduker123]

Hello, I'm kind of new to the map making scene. Right now I'm working on a map that involves a battle that ended just a few days ago and need some help when it comes to mapping. I just can't get the heights right! I tried using Google Earth but without contours I'm afraid I'm at a loss. Is there any program or addon that allows me to see height mapping or contours on Google Earth? Thanks!

[shahadi]

Hello, I'm kind of new to the map making scene. Right now I'm working on a map that involves a battle that ended just a few days ago and need some help when it comes to mapping. I just can't get the heights right! I tried using Google Earth but without contours I'm afraid I'm at a loss. Is there any program or addon that allows me to see height mapping or contours on Google Earth? Thanks!

Yeah, but I suggest satellite view, then you can use the zoom and change the altitude to get perspective.

There's a program called Microdem (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36707) that will help develop the map from Google Earth and other sources. This thread by MarkSheppard may help you.

[lukerduker123]

Thanks for the help! The only issue I have now is that the SP color mapping does not go above 340 apparently. Anyway to fix this issue?

[Suhiir]

Due to the way the game (and it's engine) works there is a maximum height.
Think of it as height above (or below) the average terrain height NOT above sea level.

[lukerduker123]

Sorry not to be specific about that. I mean the SP color coding for MicroDEM doesn't go above 340. In the map the height 490, the lowest, will be 0, but I cannot get the color mapping correct since the DBF files don't go above 340 maximum height.

[shahadi]

Sorry not to be specific about that. I mean the SP color coding for MicroDEM doesn't go above 340. In the map the height 490, the lowest, will be 0, but I cannot get the color mapping correct since the DBF files don't go above 340 maximum height.

I do not know...however, I suggest you post on the MarkSheppard (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=36707) thread and he may respond with a definitive answer. I recall discussion about map height and color but I honestly do not know the answer to your question.

[lukerduker123]

I managed to fix the problem by getting a DBF viewer. Thanks to your help I'm on the way to creating my first -real- scenario. I might as well let the cat out of the bag at this point! The Battle of Kobani is coming to Steel Panthers within a month!

[shahadi]

I managed to fix the problem by getting a DBF viewer. Thanks to your help I'm on the way to creating my first -real- scenario. I might as well let the cat out of the bag at this point! The Battle of Kobani is coming to Steel Panthers within a month!

You think the Kobani battle is a done deal in the Kurdish forces vest pocket? Hmmm... might be interesting in the coming weeks. I'll look forward to your scenario with much anticipation.

Anyway, glad you got that problem fixed! Congrats!

[dmnt]

This might be of interest: https://github.com/tvenhola/SPMBT-maps

A Perl utility for map generation from SRTM3 data. Requires Linux at this point.

[dmnt]

Here's another utility I'm packing in the hill generator:

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.html

You get the hex grid placed on top of the openstreetmap tiles so you can draw the hexes straight to the map!

[DRG]

in 25 words or less how do you place the hex grid ?

[dmnt]

in 25 words or less how do you place the hex grid ?

Currently it's static. I have plans to have a system for that (and automagically downloading the map file as well) but I just wanted to present it at it's current state.

[dmnt]

Mean while, try less user friendly option of entering them on a HTML form. Try for example
38.8897
-77.0111
for Capitol Hill

[dmnt]

Oh, the URL is http://www.venhola.com/maps/

[Imp]

Do I take it this is a work in progress by yourself? Has the potential to be a very useful tool.

[dmnt]

Do I take it this is a work in progress by yourself? Has the potential to be a very useful tool.

Yeah, I'm building it for myself but also for all the winSPMBT players and map makers out there. I'll try to push it forwards when I have free time at my disposal, which unfortunately isn't too often.

After some code cleanup I'll commit it to the github (https://github.com/tvenhola/SPMBT-maps) where everyone can download (and then modify the code on their computer if they want) it.

[dmnt]

New version in:

You can rotate the map by shift + alt + mouse drag (should also work with touch screens with pinch + rotate) and you can re-center the hex grid using the #-button on the right edge of the map. If you have rotated the map you can reset the rotation but the hex grid stays the way it was put.

Enjoy, report any problems you find.

[DRG]

New version in:

You can rotate the map by shift + alt + mouse drag (should also work with touch screens with pinch + rotate) and you can re-center the hex grid using the #-button on the right edge of the map. If you have rotated the map you can reset the rotation but the hex grid stays the way it was put.

Enjoy, report any problems you find.

very nice !

[DRG]

I've moved this thread to the "sticky" area as I feel this is a very valuable tool for anyone building a map for the game

Don

[DRG]

OK, I'm REALLY impressed with this. One thing that would be useful is if after rotating the map to the orientation you need if it might not be possible to regenerate the hex grid so you get the flat sides of the hex grid to the "left" and "right".

Currently the grid is correct when you use the correct earth orientation but rotating changes it.........it would still be possible to use it as a guide but having the grid set up like the game AFTER roation would be a plus so perhaps allowing the map to rotate while the grid stays fixed would be possible ?

But once again..........REALLY impressed with your work.

Don

[dmnt]

Rotate first, then set the grid

[DRG]

Ah ! :doh:

[wulfir]

Mean while, try less user friendly option of entering them on a HTML form.

I have been trying to get the latitude/longitude correct for Valencia, Spain - with a little trial and error I manage to set the box near PONTE-DE-SOR, PORTUGAL but when trying to move it further east the map will not show..., I assume my numbers are wrong:

Latitude: 39.2811
Longitude: -08.0005

[DRG]

try

39.4667
-0.3833

[wulfir]

Perfect!

...I think this program is gonna' be my new best friend. :D

[DRG]

Just about any Lat/Long co-ords can be googled with something like

valencia spain latitude

and it pops up as the first entry

[wulfir]

Let's try another one:

SALLA, FINLAND (previously called MÄRKÄJÄRVI).

Latitude: 66°49′59″ N
Longitude: 28°40′00″ E

What numbers to punch in? I end up in the Atlantic... :)

EDIT: Got it! This centers on SALLA:

Latitude: 66.8300
Longitude: 28.650

Love it! :)

[dmnt]

There are some bandwidth limitations with openstreetmap where the images are loaded if they're not found in local or web site cache.

A new version will be available soon (hopefully) where you can just download the terrain map right away after placing the grid. It needs still some coding and testing and may not work in every location of the world.

[dmnt]

If there's anybody interested in helping it'd be much appreciated. Some things to consider:

User manual
Testing
Debugging


Especially some help file on how to enter coordinates, how to use the web app (entering coordinates on decimal format, rotating map, placing the grid on current location, what do all those buttons do etc.)

The map download system is getting pretty much ready soon, but will need some testing.

[dmnt]

New version is out!

On the left hand side there's the zoom in/out control (mouse wheel works also, as does shift + mouse select)
On the right there's 5 functions from top to bottom (not all visible, hidden if they won't do anything):

Return the map to normal orientation (north is up)
Place the map grid on the current view center
Turn map so that the grid is not tilted (game view)
Download this map terrain file (see previous messages on how that works)
Get link to this current grid placement (for bookmarking or linking)


It's now reworked so that it will use Google API for terrain data but Google limits the amount of requests so please don't use it too much. It also limits concurrent requests so map generation is limited to 1 map at a time. Creating a map takes roughly 30 seconds and it'll always be a 160x200 map. Downloading a map does not destroy your current view unless something goes wrong (and you're shown the error message).

Other controls: shift+alt+drag = rotate map (grid stays put unless you replace the grid)

http://www.venhola.com/maps/

Feedback is welcome!

[DRG]

Sweet!

[DRG]

This really is breathtaking to anyone making maps but anyone trying this needs to be aware that when it generates the map for the game when you display it in the editor you will see nothing but flat green......BUT you WILL see what's "hiding" when you look at the mini map and the work I did to add colour to every contour height is paying off. What you need to do is select the "page2:" grass......that's the one that follows contours in terrain. Set FILL RANGE to something like 400 and then press fill and it will automagically reveal all the contours. All a map maker need to do next is add trees buildings and whatever else you want to dress the map up but this program does all the heavy lifting .

REALLY NICE WORK !


Here's a snippet
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14035&stc=1&d=1450729971

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14035&stc=1&d=1450729971

you can see a section of the map that the program works from and a section of the map.......the river bed is clearly visible

[DRG]

This ones for Ulf as an example of the usefulness of this program

The Hochwald gap contour

Map 322 for SPWW2

I CANNOT tell you enough how this has brightened my day

MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!

[dmnt]

Merry Christmas, everyone!

[wulfir]

It's now reworked so that it will use Google API for terrain data but Google limits the amount of requests so please don't use it too much.

What is 'too much'? :D

[dmnt]

It's now reworked so that it will use Google API for terrain data but Google limits the amount of requests so please don't use it too much.

What is 'too much'? :D

Google has the following limit enforced: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/elevation/usage-limits

2500 elevation API requests per day, 512 locations per request (we're using 480 per request) and 10 requests per second.

Every map has 31284 hexes to fill and it needs 66 requests per map. Therefore, my site can give you 37 map downloads per day, no more, unless I start paying google for the service. If you need more (like you created 40 maps a day... ;)) you can always download the code yourself from https://github.com/tvenhola/SPMBT-maps - it's free as in beer - and try it out. You need to apply your own Google developer API key, free of charge.

The new version that uses Google API isn't yet documented in the README (so it's not mentioned on the github page) but it's a completely new approach: no downloading of satellite data files, no need to install image magick and no west-east constraint, but you need the Google api key. And still Linux or some way to make it work under Windows.

Requires: Perl, some Perl libraries such as libcurl-perl.

Map output will do some automagic stuff which should be mentioned in the user manual:

The lowest point on map will be made "level 0"
If anything is over 150 meters high from the lowest point, it's clipped
Resolution may be poor, Google API gives lowest resolutions of "152 meters" for my neighborhood: that means that the distance between points of interpolation may be up to 3 hexes away and the result is lacking detail.
At some points it may be overspecific, giving resolution between 2-8 meters. Then the point selected on map may affect too much the hex by picking some random rooftop or excavation and not the general terrain. If this happens, I'll give your money back.

[lukerduker123]

Oh, wow, this is really nice! Just one question! Do I have to add the water manually myself?

[DRG]

Yes

[dmnt]

Oh, wow, this is really nice! Just one question! Do I have to add the water manually myself?

For the time being. It's on the road map to add automatic water hex generation as well as the proper hill levels and hex tiles. When that will be ready I really can't give any estimate.

[lukerduker123]

Don't worry about rushing man. The sheer amount of effort this must've taken, along with how easy this makes it to make real life maps now is simply mind-blowing. Thanks for this! Seriously, thanks!

[wulfir]

Just tried to generate a map and get this error:

Can't open output map! Permission denied at contour.pl line 389.

Anybody know why?

[dmnt]

Just tried to generate a map and get this error:

Can't open output map! Permission denied at contour.pl line 389.

Anybody know why?

My bad, I was developing and debugging a new version, which placed a temporary map file in a directory the download process couldn't overwrite.

It's fixed now. Note to self: don't use the same server directory for development versions.

[Grant1pa]

I just figured this out (I'm dense with some things) and.... Oh My!

Wonderful tool that takes an avid map maker like me to the point of saving weeks of effort.

Fantastic work!

Tom

[DRG]

Yeah, it's really, really nice work.

If anyone builds maps from this post them and I'll get them into a patch

[Double_Deuce]

Wow, we sure could have used this tool many moons ago.

[MarkSheppard]

So if it takes 66 requests to build a map...

The Google Maps Elevation API has the following limits in place:

(snip)

$0.50 USD / 1000 additional requests, up to 100,000 daily.

I certainly can transfer a few bucks a month for this tool. :angel

[MarkSheppard]

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=31.894902779229824&lo=131.42841339111328&rot=75

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/japan_city_plans/txu-oclc-6535671.jpg

Miyazaki was to be one of the invasion beaches for DOWNFALL/OLYMPIC/MAJESTIC in November 1945.

[dmnt]

So if it takes 66 requests to build a map...

The Google Maps Elevation API has the following limits in place:

(snip)

$0.50 USD / 1000 additional requests, up to 100,000 daily.

I certainly can transfer a few bucks a month for this tool. :angel

Well, the problem is that it'd be a hassle to handle everything. Chipping in $5 a month is no problem, handling the payments etc. is. Currently there is no such traffic that there would be any problem with this free service.

[MarkSheppard]

Tried making a map with this location; got a uniform flat map.

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=51.439670742972&lo=8.710441589355469&rot=0

This was something I had problems too with making maps via MicroDEM too -- the difference between a near sea level map and one at 400m above sea level; meaning I had to keep a set of MicroDEM terrain level tables for each altitude.

[dmnt]

Tried making a map with this location; got a uniform flat map.

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=51.439670742972&lo=8.710441589355469&rot=0

This was something I had problems too with making maps via MicroDEM too -- the difference between a near sea level map and one at 400m above sea level; meaning I had to keep a set of MicroDEM terrain level tables for each altitude.

I'll take a look at it.

[dmnt]

I seem to be getting all the tiles maxed out to hills level 15. Something not working in the code where it should take the lowest point on map and assign that to ground level 0 and adjust all the other hexes to meet that definition.

[dmnt]

I had made a severe mistake in an unpublished feature where you can decide an arbitrary lowest point value. When assigning the basic ground level the code would check if the override is set and use that or if there isn't one then just using the minimum ground level.

And then I had set a default value for the override. :doh:

Anyway, this should now be fixed and work again properly.

[DRG]

If anyone has been building maps with this new program and wants to share them I will be more than happy to add them to the next patch. Just zip them up and post them here.

Don

[DRG]

SOMEBODY must have made a map with this program

Anyone ??

[dmnt]

Mine's not yet finished. (Helsinki suburbs CA 2015)


==========================================
Even one made of varied open countryside would be nice having

SORRY.......I hit EDIT when I meant to hit REPLY--DRG

[MarkSheppard]

SOMEBODY must have made a map with this program

I've run the website stuff and downloaded a few pre-made maps; but then I get a zero on where to go further -- as a blank map with just contours is a bit daunting on filling in.

Suggestion for future improvement/programs: Allow the user to upload an image (200x160 pixels) that then gets applied to a pre-made map.

E.g. GREEN pixels mean forest cover is applied to the proper hex in that place.

[lukerduker123]

SOMEBODY must have made a map with this program

Anyone ??

I've tried a few, but I lost the motivation to finish. The border of NK and Russia will never be finished, it seems.

[dmnt]

SOMEBODY must have made a map with this program

I've run the website stuff and downloaded a few pre-made maps; but then I get a zero on where to go further -- as a blank map with just contours is a bit daunting on filling in.

Suggestion for future improvement/programs: Allow the user to upload an image (200x160 pixels) that then gets applied to a pre-made map.

E.g. GREEN pixels mean forest cover is applied to the proper hex in that place.

Zoom in the map and you get the roads and terrain features such as forests. It's OpenStreetMap data and might not cover the whole earth. Still it requires you to fill the hexes according to your vision.

Still need to write the user manual and best practices...

[DRG]

Don't give up, I think it's a great innovation, I just have my own issues to deal with ATM otherwise I'd be all over this

Don

[Grant1pa]

SOMEBODY must have made a map with this program

Anyone ??

I just posted a scenario with a base map I generated using the program. I'm still learning how to use this program, as well as interpret the heights generated with terrain features from satellite views. Counting hexes is difficult, and sometimes perplexing in establishing roadways and buildings.

But, it's a far better system than trying to do terrain manually and cuts the time involved quite a bit.

I chose a location in the Australian outback (Cunnamulla)due to the limited waterways. I'm working on another location on the east coast, but when there's waterways, it involves a lot of hex number counting to get it right (which I haven't yet).

I don't have a photo of the area I used but I am attaching a copy of the map. Google earth Cunnamulla Austrailia (Queensland) and move east of the town (east of the race track). You'll see the area that's depicted on the WINMBT map.

Tom

[dmnt]

I just posted a scenario with a base map I generated using the program. I'm still learning how to use this program, as well as interpret the heights generated with terrain features from satellite views. Counting hexes is difficult, and sometimes perplexing in establishing roadways and buildings.


Every (x,y) position where x and y are divisible by 4 will be displayed when you zoom in far enough. That is to help you counting the locations.

Maybe there should be 3-level option for that, every hex with numbers, every 16th hex (as currently) or completely off. Or some hovering tooltip when the mouse cursor is held on top of the hex.

Any ideas appreciated for improvement.

My approach is to start with the fresh downloaded map and to add major roads first. Then I'll start drawing lesser roads and fill areas captured inside the roads and finishing them one by one until the whole map is ready. And I'll adjust the hex heights if necessary to better suit the feel of the terrain, for example if the road goes up and down when in reality it's going on the same level around a hill.

[dmnt]

Tried making a map with this location; got a uniform flat map.

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=51.439670742972&lo=8.710441589355469&rot=0

This was something I had problems too with making maps via MicroDEM too -- the difference between a near sea level map and one at 400m above sea level; meaning I had to keep a set of MicroDEM terrain level tables for each altitude.

This feature is now improved:

if the terrain contains height differences more than 150 meters they are proportionally mapped from 0 to 150 meter range. Your downloaded map should now be better suited for map building.

[dmnt]

Aaaaand finally, here's at least some kind of user manual. Enjoy!

https://github.com/tvenhola/SPMBT-maps/blob/master/MANUAL.md

[IronDuke99]

How does one "choose clear keeping the current contours"?

[dmnt]

How does one "choose clear keeping the current contours"?

That's just my memory trying to think what that tooltip said.

Choose the "Add clear terrain to hex following the contours of the existing map [C]". So when you first fire up the map editor, you can press N, C, 6, type 255 (and press Enter) and finally press L

OR

Click the blue triangle, green square on top left, "fill range" button above the blue triangle, type 255 and press enter, click "fill" button next to the "fill range" button.

This should give you the nice hills and slopes of the terrain.

[Grant1pa]

I have a question and I appologize if this has been asked prior.

I've been using the maptool in this thread (http://www.venhola.com/maps/)
and have been very impressed with the ease of obtaining realistic map heights for real world locations.

However, it's driving me crazy trying to emplace streams and lakes which occur on heights above "0" elevation. Which I know is obvious to members of the forum, you can place streams on "10" elevations but they move to "0". In game design, this may not be an issue unless you try to put streams or lakes on higher than "10" levels. The drop is simply to drastic and you have to greatly modify the map heights generated by the tool.

My computer programing days have long past and I surely don't have the expertise to critique or advise on the problem. Is there anyway to allow streams or lakes in higher elevations. Streams progress downstream as well as lakes can be on any elevation. It would be great to be able to emplace these terrain features onto the elevations produced through the map tool.

In a wish list of improvements to the game mechanics, this would have to be my highest wish.

Anyone have any answers?

Tom Garlock

[Imp]

All terrain associated with water including marshes always creates a hex at a height just below zero, I have discovered no way round it.

Pavement also seems to lower hills by half a level.
Placed on level 3 it normally becomes a level 2.5 hex as an example.

[Mobhack]

All water terrain is level -1 and deeper. That has always been the way, its a design feature of the basic terrain code.

[dmnt]

However, it's driving me crazy trying to emplace streams and lakes which occur on heights above "0" elevation. Which I know is obvious to members of the forum, you can place streams on "10" elevations but they move to "0". In game design, this may not be an issue unless you try to put streams or lakes on higher than "10" levels. The drop is simply to drastic and you have to greatly modify the map heights generated by the tool.

My computer programing days have long past and I surely don't have the expertise to critique or advise on the problem. Is there anyway to allow streams or lakes in higher elevations. Streams progress downstream as well as lakes can be on any elevation. It would be great to be able to emplace these terrain features onto the elevations produced through the map tool.


I personally have just placed the lakes where they happen to be. In some cases, it's in higher terrain and the shores become steep, but I just took it as a limitation of the game engine. Thinking over this last weekend I have couple of proposed solutions for the changes I could make for the map producing code. I'd appreciate any input from the end users:

Forcing the zero level: In the map tool there would be an option list for the download map section where you could arbitrarily set the ground level 0 to any metric height you wish. That means, if you have a lake that's 12 meters above sea level you could force "12 meters" to be the zero ground level and anything below that would be zero. Pros: You get your lakes to proper height. Cons: you lose terrain information below that level. Not good for mountains.
Adding an option to tilt the terrain: You could set the ground tilt so that the lake (or rivers) would be near correct by setting three points on the map to be on certain height level. That would create a slanted height map so that most of the lake or river is on correct terrain height. Pros: You get most of your lakes to correct height. Cons: the terrain height is sloped and not absolute but rather relative to nearby environment and slopes appear where they would not. Tedious to implement.


The backend code already has the ground level setting code (which was the source of the bug mentioned in this thread earlier) but the frontend currently has not means to set it or to signal it to the backend.

Also, if anyone wants to participate in coding this web app you're welcome.

[RecruitMonty]

I don't think you need to bother. If that is the way the game engine likes it then we just have to live with it. Otherwise it defeats the object of developing a tool to render height properly.

I do think something should be done about pavements etc though. I never understood why that was the case and I always found it rather arbitrary.

[Tomas]

I'm bit stuck with my map. I've used the tool and have a perfect heighmap. But whenever I try to place certain terrain to a hex the height of the hex will change as follows:

- if placing clear terrain and height was 0 it will be 5
- if placing trees and height was 0 it will be 0
- if placing pavement and height was 0 it will be 5
- if placing paved road and height was 0 it will be 0

- if placing clear terrain and height was 10 it will be 11
- if placing trees and height was 10 it will be 10
- if placing pavement and height was 10 it will be 5
- if placing paved road and height was 10 will be 10

In conclusion - placing almost anything besides trees or road ruins the height.

I've attached the heightmap so you can see yourself.

What can be done about that ?

[dmnt]

I'm bit stuck with my map. I've used the tool and have a perfect heighmap. But whenever I try to place certain terrain to a hex the height of the hex will change as follows:

- if placing clear terrain and height was 0 it will be 5
- if placing trees and height was 0 it will be 0
- if placing pavement and height was 0 it will be 5
- if placing paved road and height was 0 it will be 0

- if placing clear terrain and height was 10 it will be 11
- if placing trees and height was 10 it will be 10
- if placing pavement and height was 10 it will be 5
- if placing paved road and height was 10 will be 10

In conclusion - placing almost anything besides trees or road ruins the height.

I've attached the heightmap so you can see yourself.

What can be done about that ?

First things first: whenever you have downloaded a map, open it up in map editor, click fill range, write 255, choose "clear map following the contour" (the other clear terrain - you need to click blue triangle once - in same screen as railways etc.) and then click "fill."

That way you have the hills and slopes properly. The map and game engine don't follow the precise heights that much so it's only close to the actual height. And natural formations don't make that hex grid, either.

[dmnt]

Here, attached are the loops you must jump thru:
1) set fill range to 255
2) go to correct tool page and select the clear that keeps the height info
3) click fill button (no picture of this)
4) result.

Included in attachments are pictures of 1, 2 and 4 - and a resulting map I got from your map attachment.

[DRG]

Here, attached are the loops you must jump thru:
2) go to correct tool page and select the clear that keeps the height info


That's page 2 of the editor ( page 2 is the page the fill range button is NOT on ).......the page one clear gives you ground level grass, Page 2 clear follows the contours and on maps like this you won't know where the contours are until you flood the map with page 2 clear ( grass )

..and "fill range" could be any large number..... I usually type in 500

Don

[Tomas]

Thanks guys, I'll try again. I've did the step with fill & clear, but apparently not properly (used probably wrong "clear").

[DRG]

Thanks guys, I'll try again. I've did the step with fill & clear, but apparently not properly (used probably wrong "clear").

when you place your cursour over each terrain type in the editor the explanation that shows in the upper left changes.


For page one clear it reads..........

Clear All Terrain From Hex - Add Level Terrain [C]

page 2 clear reads........

Add clear terrain to hex following the contours of the existing map [C]

pressing C will give you clear grass in both pages but you get the correct effect depending on the page you are in

Don

[wulfir]

Learn something new everyday! :up:

Great for building winter maps!




Just for fun I'm going to try the Link to this map grid function and see if I open it on my spare computer:

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=67.11167240470263&lo=28.80752563476562&rot=0

[dmnt]

If you want to try, you can rotate the map either by
1) entering the degrees to the url: http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=67.11167240470263&lo=28.80752563476562&rot=45
2) Using alt+shift+mouse drag and then clicking the crosshair symbol (top right)

[wulfir]

If you want to try, you can rotate the map either by


Sweet - just compleated a rotated map of Villiers-Fossard, near St Lo, France. :up:


(disregard link below, unrelated)

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=63.334724017610625&lo=12.061271667480469&rot=0

[DRG]

(disregard link below, unrelated)

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=63.334724017610625&lo=12.061271667480469&rot=0

Yes but it generates an interesting map:)

[wulfir]

hehe... :ham:

I'm using two computers to speed up the map making process further, game on one, map page on the other.


http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=51.20397951812467&lo=17.40105628967285&rot=0

[dmnt]

hehe... :ham:

I'm using two computers to speed up the map making process further, game on one, map page on the other.


http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=51.20397951812467&lo=17.40105628967285&rot=0

This is exactly why I have two monitors!

[DRG]

FYI I will be happy to add any maps made that used this program to create the basic terrain to the next patch

[DRG]

Tuomas

I've had more time to use the program of late testing work that we are doing to help make "skinning" these maps ( and ours ) a bit less time consuming and after generating a map of the area around Villers-Bocage where the battle was fought it was clear that the contours are being overly exaggerated. They may be perfectly spot on but when translated to a game map things seem a "bit" out.

I really like this program, I really like what it can bring to map making for this game but I'm thinking it's putting at least twice as may contours in than it should to make a game usable map.

Thanks to Google you can "drive" Wittmann's route and it's not quite the grand canyon(ish) experience the map the program delivers now would suggest
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14573&stc=1&d=1485722491

what I propose, if possible. is a control for the number of individual height contours that are produced or at least halving the number produced now. I do appreciate the effort you put into this but I think it needs a wee tweak.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14574&stc=1&d=1485724936

I realise some of the exaggeration can be manually corrected but does anyone else ( maybe it's just me......) think these tend be a bit exaggerated for game purposes? The circled area is the big problem as it drops into a steam and that's the main area of exaggeration for me

Edit......I will say though.... I generated a map of the area around where I live and it looks just about perfect so maybe its just a case of watching what's generated and if it seems wrong--- fix it manually?

Has anyone else noticed anything like this ??

Don

[Grant1pa]

Don,

I've noticed the same issue. In some instances, the terrain does seem to include too many elevation contours. Streams are problematic, but I also seem that to be a reflection of the SP's software's programming.

I keep most of these maps "as is". However, I often have to rework the contours manually to blend the intrinsic terrain into a playable terrain for a scenario.

A minor issue for the most part. However, It would be great if the program could be adjusted to adapt to these issues.

Tom

[dmnt]

Tuomas

I've had more time to use the program of late testing work that we are doing to help make "skinning" these maps ( and ours ) a bit less time consuming and after generating a map of the area around Villers-Bocage where the battle was fought it was clear that the contours are being overly exaggerated. They may be perfectly spot on but when translated to a game map things seem a "bit" out.

I really like this program, I really like what it can bring to map making for this game but I'm thinking it's putting at least twice as may contours in than it should to make a game usable map.

Thanks to Google you can "drive" Wittmann's route and it's not quite the grand canyon(ish) experience the map the program delivers now would suggest
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14573&stc=1&d=1485722491

what I propose, if possible. is a control for the number of individual height contours that are produced or at least halving the number produced now. I do appreciate the effort you put into this but I think it needs a wee tweak.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14574&stc=1&d=1485724936

I realise some of the exaggeration can be manually corrected but does anyone else ( maybe it's just me......) think these tend be a bit exaggerated for game purposes? The circled area is the big problem as it drops into a steam and that's the main area of exaggeration for me

Edit......I will say though.... I generated a map of the area around where I live and it looks just about perfect so maybe its just a case of watching what's generated and if it seems wrong--- fix it manually?

Has anyone else noticed anything like this ??

Don

I'll check on that. In some cases the data we get from Google may be a bit off or there's some missing values that somewhere on the line get interpreted as "0.0" meters and a huge crater appears on map.

I'm thinking about creating a business account and speeding up the api we get in exchange for a couple of bucks. Then I'll have some time to invest for finding missing value errors and such and returning some information back to the user with the downloaded map. Now all the logs are out of sight for the end user.

[DRG]

As I said. I generated a map of the area around where I live and it was near perfect AND that includes a river but I know contours can be misread by map making software. Before I could build a house on my property I had to have it surveyed because the county had most of it shown as floodplain...but it's not......not even close but one section of the river nearby had steep banks that the original map makers interpreted incorrectly which affected all the contours around it and indicated my property was about 40 ft lower than it actually is.

So...... looking at the Villers map the problem is much the same plus as was pointed out the way SP creates elevations can be deceiving ....couple the two together in just the wrong way and you get a steep-sided canyon where there isn't one so thinking more now that this is something that has to be evaluated by a map maker on an individual basis and adjusted as necessary and not taken as holy writ. Once I filled in the questionable section it seemed much more "normal" looking

[jp10]

Thinking that you want to hear input about this program...
I have used it to make 4 maps. Two are complete to the point that I am running battles on them to test. the other two are still incomplete.
3 are of of an island. 1 is an inland area of California.
The island maps generated in Winspmbt with no detection of the coastline from the water. I zoomed in to the venhola program till the hexgrid was readable and took screenshots to cover the entire area. I then took the screenshots into photoshop to crop and print them out. I then used them to place water and outline the coast.
Since water is -1 or -3 in game elevations this established the immediate inland area at about a 0 level. The first generated elevations (10) corresponded to real life elevations of 100 feet and were very accurately placed.
Apparently the program (venhola) does not translate water at a negative but at the lowest land elevation (height 0). So it could be that if you have a river in terrain at level 1 elevation (height 10) venhola will drop the water to height 0, not a big difference in Winsp. But if the river is in 3 level elevation (height 30) the real river should be level 2 but venhola will drop it to level 0, making a canyon effect.

[Imp]

You could have found the problem, the game always generates water at the same level, always uses level 0 tile.

[shahadi]

I would very much encourage and welcome wholeheartedly a map group, guys specialize in making maps and sharing their findings in a way that even I may one day understand.

More even, a map group as a resource where a map challenged maker as myself could submit requests for a map to the map group, with map credits included in the final scenario product.

Map making is such an illusive endeavor for me.

=====

[jp10]

I started by making small maps of places I knew. Make a small 20x20 of your neighborhood, places you have gone on vacation... etc. It helps to learn how to think of an area as a 'Hex' and how you will only be able to show a limited amount of features. Every detail is real life, the important 'feel' details is what makes a map.

[shahadi]

I started by making small maps of places I knew. Make a small 20x20 of your neighborhood, places you have gone on vacation... etc. It helps to learn how to think of an area as a 'Hex' and how you will only be able to show a limited amount of features. Every detail is real life, the important 'feel' details is what makes a map.

Thanks.I may give your suggestion a try.

=====

[dmnt]

I'll check on that. In some cases the data we get from Google may be a bit off or there's some missing values that somewhere on the line get interpreted as "0.0" meters and a huge crater appears on map.


Looks like this is partially a bug and partially a data issue: In some cases if the max height difference is just correct, the handler might get an overflow (because the check was $height > HEIGHT_LIMIT, so no equality included in comparison) and instead of having level 15 in place a level 0 ground is created. I'm still inspecting this.

[DRG]

I would very much encourage and welcome wholeheartedly a map group, guys specialize in making maps and sharing their findings in a way that even I may one day understand.

More even, a map group as a resource where a map challenged maker as myself could submit requests for a map to the map group, with map credits included in the final scenario product.

Map making is such an elusive endeavor for me.

=====

For those of you who may not visit the winSPWW2 forum, this thread shows a Venhola generated map used with the new terrain and terrain laying features found in the CD/extended 2017 version of both games

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=51523

The map itself is in post 17

[dmnt]

A new version is out, in the user interface you can now specify how many meters one level is (default = 10 meters or 30 feet). Additionally, the height adjustment code was changed with this new functionality.

If the height variation is too high for the meters/level setting then the map generation overwrites that. Later the clipping limits (such as "base level is 150 m of altitude in real world, level 15 is 350 m) might be arbitrarily set. I'm also planning a satellite view map tiles so the end user can see what the terrain looks from above. Useful especially in cases where the open street map data is rather coarse.

[DRG]

Very Nice ! I'm taking it for a spin now. Thanks !

What's nice about this is you can leave the area in the same place and use stock 10, then use for example.....15 then save them both and compare and then decide what suits the situation the best. I'm trying that now with Goldap as I'm very familiar with it and there is a noticeable difference in the map between stock 10 and 15. Later today I will see what effect that has on the area around Villers-Bocage and if changes the issues I had with the way it was generated

This really is an exceptional game tool you have created. Thanks again

:up::up:

Don

[DRG]

For those few interested in map making the attached RAR contains Three maps of the exact same area around Villers-Bocage with contours at stock 10, then 15 and then 20... They fill map slots 994-995-996....use for comparison purposes

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14648&stc=1&d=1489078387

......and IF we continue with this there WILL be a "last page" button added to the custom editor!

[Imp]

......and IF we continue with this there WILL be a "last page" button added to the custom editor!

Are you saying you will incorporate DMNTs work into the game.
Due to one thing or another I only recently started playing with this.
Its wonderful generates a max size map in 15 seconds or so, trying to create something realistic at this size took dedication beforehand, as in weeks with the time I had to spend on it.
I cant recommend this app strongly enough, try generating a map around a place you have lived or know well then prepare to defend your property.

[DRG]

......and IF we continue with this there WILL be a "last page" button added to the custom editor!

Are you saying you will incorporate DMNTs work into the game.

Impossible as it requires off-site online systems but the new splatter feature was designed with working with it in mind. I would have included a link in the game guide but I didn't want it swamped

[DRG]

[QUOTE]
I cant recommend this app strongly enough, try generating a map around a place you have lived or know well then prepare to defend your property.

I had had one and am in the middle of a second game playing on the Goldap map and both have been well above average on the enjoyment scale. It's good to use a map you built yourself

[Imp]

I would strongly suggest trying this its very simple, no need to make perfect maps just get the right topography for the area if you are into making scenarios.
Takes time to fill in hexes correctly but can just do a quick approximation based on google maps satellite & or the map the app uses.

Very simple to do once you have done it once its second nature.
Remember you can turn the map to suit your needs before generating.

Wont cover using this app as covered already but here is a few simple steps to select some suitable terrain.

1)Use a latitude longitude website such as http://latitudelongitude.org/pl/plock/
2)Do one of the following
Select a country then city if that's what you want or select tools - address to latitude longitude.
3)Second option either type in the address or scroll around using google maps satellite view is available if desired & its fast.
4) Once you have an area of interest press the marker to centre button.
5) Cut & paste Lat & Long into this app in another tab & generate the map.
6) I suggest using "save as" so you can move areas slightly in either tab & save another one.
7) Once you have done a few load up the map editor & see what you have.
8) Remember you can crop the map to suit your needs once you have saved it.

Attached are 2 maps showing different topography.
One is a local hill in New Zealand, not a quick climb which dominates the area & yes its well represented with 2 peaks.
Second just a random grab of Afghanistan hills as they rise from the flatter terrain in the bottom left corner.

Different countries / areas produce different types of terrain as they should so let the app help you out or inspire you.

[lukerduker123]

Howdy! Hope I'm not intruding in on things, but you (DMNT) mentioned satellite mode in an upcoming version. If this gets pushed out (Which I hope it does--I only have one screen so I can't have SPMBT, Google Earth, and the program all up at once) reckon you can add the ability to flip the colors of the hex grid and such? Being able to flip it from black to white and back again would be awful swell, considering how much of a b* it'd be to load up a satellite view, only to be unable to see the hex grid thanks to the color of the terrain. Just throwing the suggestion out there, and thanks for the lovely map. Can't believe my question turned into all this. Well, by that I mean I can't believe the thread is now about the best editor to ever be in this game.

[Imp]

Apart from doing the far left of the map its not much of an issue if you only have one monitor.
1)Open map editor & slide half of it off your screen to the left.
2)Open internet program with the map or google & resize it to fit in the other half of the screen.

Tip before generating the map have a quick zoom in & look at major long roads. If needs be adjust the angle slightly to match them.
Picture shows adjusted remembering while its a bit of a pita to do you can draw roads horizontally & vertically.
Can also consider when doing map if its for general play so rotating makes a more user friendly map.
i.e. Rotate town so edge runs roughly top to bottom & check it falls on one half of the map, as in edge of town is behind centre line so defenders can set up in all of it in a generated battle.

[dmnt]

Howdy! Hope I'm not intruding in on things, but you (DMNT) mentioned satellite mode in an upcoming version. If this gets pushed out (Which I hope it does--I only have one screen so I can't have SPMBT, Google Earth, and the program all up at once) reckon you can add the ability to flip the colors of the hex grid and such? Being able to flip it from black to white and back again would be awful swell, considering how much of a b* it'd be to load up a satellite view, only to be unable to see the hex grid thanks to the color of the terrain. Just throwing the suggestion out there, and thanks for the lovely map. Can't believe my question turned into all this. Well, by that I mean I can't believe the thread is now about the best editor to ever be in this game.

How does it look now? The new hex button (lowest right) toggles between white, grey and black hex grids. Opacity is still set at static 30% value, but it could also be adjusted.

[DRG]

How does it look now? The new hex button (lowest right) toggles between white, grey and black hex grids. Opacity is still set at static 30% value, but it could also be adjusted.

VERY nice. That allows for a number of ways to display the hex grid to suit the map that's produced

Don

[Imp]

Looks fine though prefer original black, thanks for continuing with this its a great little app.

Just my view but contours are fine you have got this to a level where it is very efficient.

Now this is just a thought & aimed more I think at Don & Andy, would it be possible to add the following feature to the map editor to aid with visualising terrain filling.

Auto fill text on the WINSPmap for the coordinates listed on the map.
i.e. from top right 0,0 4,0 8,0 etc.
After the map is completed by my understanding pressing # will clear all the text strings.
This could therefor be implemented if its possible by a key stroke or even SHIFT#

The other pie in the sky question dmnt is you can obviously read & extrapolate the contours data, can you read the terrain data?
If so can you extrapolate main details as in woods, marsh, built up (use red earth or some such)Big question then is can the Camo boys create something that auto populates this data. Guessing that's not how things are set up unfortunately.

Dang anyone know how to set windows transparency?
I used to be able to individually adjust window transparency on my old system with an aftermarket tweak.
Load up map & WINSP map editor
Set map editor window to 80% approx. transparent & just copy the map through it.

Said it before but I would really like to thank Don & Andy for there continued support of this game along with the many other people like yourself dmnt that contribute whether it be with scenarios fact finding or great little apps.

[DRG]

Now this is just a thought & aimed more I think at Don & Andy, would it be possible to add the following feature to the map editor to aid with visualising terrain filling.

Auto fill text on the WINSPmap for the coordinates listed on the map.
i.e. from top right 0,0 4,0 8,0 etc.
After the map is completed by my understanding pressing # will clear all the text strings.
This could therefor be implemented if its possible by a key stroke or even SHIFT#

I assume you would want that to match game map hex with map hex ?

The game map will display the hex co-ordinates when you mouse over the hex but game maps will NEVER be 100% " earth like" so use a print-out of the map as a guildline in building your game map. There is no point in trying to be 100% as it CAN NEVER BE 100%. What this allows a game map maker to do is already is akin to " Scotty, beam me up" compared to what the original SSI game offered. What Tuomas has created here would have been pie-in-the-sky science fiction in 1997

[Imp]

I assume you would want that to match game map hex with map hex ?

The game map will display the hex co-ordinates when you mouse over the hex but game maps

I understand this what I was after if its possible is a key press that adds the cords as a text string as circled in red on the attached picture.

It would just aid with visualization to save time when filling in.

If really wanted & possible could be a key specifically for loading maps from this app.

As in press that key
Sets fill to 250, fills following contours, adds text strings every 4th hex with cords.

As you say map making has come a long way we can even mess with obstacle height & density if we wish. This idea is just the icing on the cake if its feasible.

Only other changes I can think of that might be practical would be to change pavement so it works like other terrain & follows the contour rather than depressing it. Using the same basic tile shape as say impassable terrain would work well bordered by roads etc.

[Mobhack]

Pavement originally flattened the terrain to 0, and was used so that patches of city grid were absolutely flat. So you got that SP1 and SP2 effect of a little sunken village of 2-3 houses "buried" in a ridge...

We let pavement flow over terrain as part of our freeing up of fields etc (They only could be laid on level 0 flatland in the original SSI games).

Pavement still serves the same function of smoothing off an urbanised area, if not as markedly as it once did (it as I said, follows terrain contouring now).

[DRG]

Andy doesn't make maps and he's confusing pavement with fields which used to be level 1 only but we added slopes to fields years ago and now they follow contours

Pavement and both types of cobblestones clear terrain to zero which is why I used gray sand as a stand-in for pavement on the Goldap map

--this is why posting at 3:30 am can be a problem:D

Don

[Mobhack]

Yep - doh!:doh::doh:

[dmnt]

I could also try and see if the generated map could come with the text fields for those hexes. However, I'm not that keen to jump in the binary format without documentation.

I'll try to add the satellite view this week as well as the "donate now" button where people can chip in - but it's not expected, just appreciated. The paypal account is in the name of a dotcom ltd (of which I own part of the shares) where my personal site resides as well, so don't get confused about the recipient of the donation. I have already signed up for billing, but not expecting anything major from there.

Don: The server should be heavy duty enough to cope with the map makers (it's already hosting a fairly popular site), so adding a link to the game manual is not a problem.

[DRG]

Don: The server should be heavy duty enough to cope with the map makers (it's already hosting a fairly popular site), so adding a link to the game manual is not a problem.

It's too late for this year but next year I will. At the beginning, I recall there were traffic restrictions and I didn't want to post a link and see it get swamped with people curious about it, but I think now there just isn't the flood of game map makers I thought there might be.

Don

[dmnt]

It's too late for this year but next year I will. At the beginning, I recall there were traffic restrictions and I didn't want to post a link and see it get swamped with people curious about it, but I think now there just isn't the flood of game map makers I thought there might be.


Thanks! You are absolutely correct that I requested people not to flood the map creating system as at the time the API access was restricted (limited to free account restrictions) and the implementation was more CPU intensive than the current approach and I didn't want any negative effect for the main site from this hobby of mine. Anyway now it should be able to handle the traffic from the general public.

[shahadi]

I need step-by-step instructions on this map making utility.

I inserted the following coordinates into the WinSPMBT Map Tool: 31.5178
and 64.1142. Hit the download link and I got my spmap999.dat.

Problem, map does not show in Map Editor. I only have the dat file and not the cmt (not sure if that's a problem as nobody else seems to have reported more than the one map file.)

So, by the numbers, how to get the map into the Map Editor and how to get a winSPMBT map (pictures would be nice too for hard heads.)

<br>

[wulfir]

I need step-by-step instructions on this map making utility.

1) I stopped using the coordinate system and just press go. It will take you to the eastern Atlantic somewhere.

2) Zoom out.

3) Point and click your way to where you want to go.

4) Zoom in.

5) Use the + centre hex grid function (found in the upper right corner) to set the map.

6) Download the map.

7) Place the map in the game map folder. You might want renumber it otherwise it'll be 999.

8) I also use the link funtion and email the map link to myself. Then open the venhola map program link on my other computer.

9) Load the map in the editor. It will have no name and appear blank - but it isn't. Use grass or some other terrain that does not change heights and fill in the entire map and the differences in height will show. (There is also a way to fill the map with the basic green/winter/desert terrain - but maybe we can learn that part next class...)

10) Fill in water, roads, towns etc. Save early, save often.

I have my older computer set up next to my newer one. I open the map program with the link function using my older machine and work and edit on the gamemap itself on my newer computer. It saves time. I guess you could use two screeens to get the same sort of result. Often I use other map sources for additional information...

[Imp]

Load the map in the editor
Select fill following contours of map, first button on second page
Set the fill range high so it covers the whole map, solid or your preference.
Wait a few seconds for terrain heights to be filled in then save the map.
Now edit as normal.

Saving the link is very important especially if you have adjusted the angle as you now have the infomation to fill in the map.

Being able to adjust the angle from the map screen would be a nice feature so you can adjust it a couple of degrees to see the results.
Look at long straight roads runways etc & adjust the angle to best depict them or some other major terrain feature before generating the map.
Keep in mind left right works best for deployment when rotating the map top does not need to be North.

[shahadi]

Saving the link is very important especially if you have adjusted the angle as you now have the infomation to fill in the map.


Please explain, "saving the link," how is it used? What information is available to fill in the map?

Thank you

<br>

[Grant1pa]

Saving the link is very important especially if you have adjusted the angle as you now have the infomation to fill in the map.


Please explain, "saving the link," how is it used? What information is available to fill in the map?

Thank you

<br>

The link provides you the opportunity to return to the Map Tool and accurately recreate your hex map you downloaded (Including the rotation of the Map Tool map you may have done). For me, when I'm working on a map it will take me hours until I can get the basic road system, town layout, streams, etc done.

The map tool gives you the terrain, filling in the rest from the linked page is up to you. Having the link saves you from what I used to do, which was multiple screen print the Map Tool page and then refer to those prints to draw in the other map features. I can reload the Map Tool map complete with the rotation I may have put in, and return to generating the game map I am working on any time I choose.

One thing I learned from the latter, is I stopped using exact hex numbers to draw entire roads, etc. I set key waypoints counting hexes, then eye the roads and towns in from there. It may not be as accurate, but due to the scale difference between the Map Tool and the game graphics, it will save you many Tearing Out Your Hair moments. Also, you can soften the generated Map Tool Map to better fit road alignment, etc.

Finally, I use the same map coordinates I fed into the map tool, then go to google maps and look to man made features (fields, farms, etc) to mesh that into the map.

Hope this helps.

Tom

[DRG]

I make a screen shot of the map area then print it out and use it for reference.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15024&stc=1&d=1510748725


IDK exactly what he means by link as the link that shows when you make a map does not bring me to that same map

[Imp]

There is an option to save the link in the map tool which works like the favorite button in your browser, could use favorite button if you prefer.

Open the map tool with the link & it opens on the location you saved to your favorites folder in your browser.

Unfortunatly I dont have mine anymore but if you have a windows 7 machine & if its still available download from Stardock free their version of windows aero mode you can adjust individual windows transparency.
Set map editor to aroud 70% place it over the map link in your browser & trace the details showing through from underneath.

[shahadi]

Got it! Who said that dog won't hunt? Thanks.
<br>

[DRG]

Yep.... The L button.... just found it myself even though I've looked at it dozens times......

[shahadi]

Map Lebanon Litani River 33.338918, 35.250556 at the mouth of the Mediterranean Sea.

Resources: Google Earth, www.gps-coordinates.net, WinSPMBT Map Tool.

According to Google Earth and the GPS-Coordinates mapping tool, the generated map in WinSPMBT should not contain the resultant elevations evident in the generated in the Extended Mapping Tool.

Using the coordinates found in the WinSPMBT map tool, the Litani River meets the Mediterranean Sea at 33.338, 35.250. These coordinates do not appear to align with Google Earth or the GPS-Coordinates tool.

I am at a loss to resolve the apparent discrepancy.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15038&stc=1&d=1511591212

<br>

[DRG]

Some things like that you just have to edit in manually

[shahadi]

Some things like that you just have to edit in manually

Yeah, I can understand that, having to edit in manually certain features like rivers, roads, buildings, even the ocean and coastline as well.

I reported in an earlier post: "According to Google Earth and the GPS-Coordinates mapping tool, the generated map in WinSPMBT should not contain the resultant elevations evident in the generated [in the] Extended Mapping Tool."

The high elevations DO exist in Google Earth inland from the coast; my mistake.
<br>

[dmnt]

Map Lebanon Litani River 33.338918, 35.250556 at the mouth of the Mediterranean Sea.

Resources: Google Earth, www.gps-coordinates.net, WinSPMBT Map Tool.

According to Google Earth and the GPS-Coordinates mapping tool, the generated map in WinSPMBT should not contain the resultant elevations evident in the generated in the Extended Mapping Tool.

Using the coordinates found in the WinSPMBT map tool, the Litani River meets the Mediterranean Sea at 33.338, 35.250. These coordinates do not appear to align with Google Earth or the GPS-Coordinates tool.

I am at a loss to resolve the apparent discrepancy.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15038&stc=1&d=1511591212

<br>

I'll have a look at it. However if the data from google API is wrong there is no way to have a correct result in the produced map file.

Meanwhile I'm moving the stuff to a new server and expect possibly a small break in service close to the end of month.

[dmnt]

At least https://www.google.fi/maps/place/33%C2%B020'20.1%22N+35%C2%B015'02.0%22E/@33.3514128,35.2596291,318a,35y,190.83h,74.69t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d33.338918!4d 35.250556?hl=en
shows that it's not that leveled and judging by the attachments here I can't see any obvious faults. Is there a specific point where you think the terrain map fails bad? Or is it just feeling too mountainous in general?

[DRG]

I haven't said it lately but again....this is a wonderful tool you have built for the game

[shahadi]

At least https://www.google.fi/maps/place/33%C2%B020'20.1%22N+35%C2%B015'02.0%22E/@33.3514128,35.2596291,318a,35y,190.83h,74.69t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x0!8m2!3d33.338918!4d 35.250556?hl=en
shows that it's not that leveled and judging by the attachments here I can't see any obvious faults. Is there a specific point where you think the terrain map fails bad? Or is it just feeling too mountainous in general?

I now understand that I have to insert the coastline and river into the game map. Yeah, I expected, incorrectly, that at hex 68,100 the Litani river's inland path would begin. But the tool does not depict bodies of water, rivers, or roads.

Thanks for taking a look and the kind response.

<br>

[dmnt]

Good news, everyone!

I recently did a change so that whenever you place the grid on the map the URL on your browser location bar changes and is copy/paste compliant. What's even better is that it doesn't break the old url scheme but redirects to the new one.

The URL is now like http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#24.87101620780233,60.22780275752547,5

where the first value in the comma separated list after hash sign (in this example 24.87101620780233,60.22780275752547,5) is longitude, second one is latitude and last one is rotation (in degrees).

The link providing "L" button still gives out the old URL format but as explained above, is turned into this new user friendly format. Enjoy, folks!

[DRG]

The link I use is
http://www.venhola.com/maps/

and it brings me to the
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Input coordinates in WGS84

Latitude (decimal, negative = southern hemisphere)
0.0
Longitude (decimal, negative = western hemisphere)
0.0
Rotation (degrees)
0
Go!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
screen and it still functions normally for me and it seemns a bit easier for anyone to see the coordinates to enter

[DRG]

BTW... it was your program that inspired the changes you will see to the load map screens for next patch..

[DRG]

A problem has developed. I tried to generate a map this morning and got an error message. I thought perhaps it was because I was using my original link but I just tried the one you provided in post 131 and the same message appears



Something went wrong, return value 2. Process returned:
Can't locate JSON.pm in @INC (you may need to install the JSON module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.22.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.22.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.22 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.22 /usr/share/perl/5.22 /usr/local/lib/site_perl /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base .) at contour.pl line 9.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at contour.pl line 9.


What is ........" the JSON module " ?

[dmnt]

A problem has developed. I tried to generate a map this morning and got an error message. I thought perhaps it was because I was using my original link but I just tried the one you provided in post 131 and the same message appears



Something went wrong, return value 2. Process returned:
Can't locate JSON.pm in @INC (you may need to install the JSON module) (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.22.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.22.1 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl5/5.22 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl/5.22 /usr/share/perl/5.22 /usr/local/lib/site_perl /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/perl-base .) at contour.pl line 9.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at contour.pl line 9.


What is ........" the JSON module " ?

Looks like I forgot to install the required modules on the Google api script. It is lacking the JSON data format handling module on the new server and can't download the contours.

I'll try to fix it right now.

[dmnt]

Should be fixed now.

[DRG]

Not quite yet.........



Something went wrong, return value 9. Process returned:
coords => 60.263401849049245,24.79209997529907,60.2696188170 9869,24.935376385368095,60.19253328574271,24.94941 3610829748,60.18630167767603,24.806137200760716
level => 10.000000
dx = (60.26961881709869 - 60.263401849049245)/158, 24.935376385368095 - 24.79209997529907)/158)
dy = (60.18630167767603 - 60.263401849049245)/198, 24.806137200760716 - 24.79209997529907 - .5*0.000901109497289461)/198)
Zero 60.263401849049245, 24.79209997529907
dx 3.91004279839213e-05:0.000901109497289461, dy -0.000387438047101596:6.82747272010108e-05
Corners: (0,0)=60.263401849049245 24.79209997529907 (159,0)=60.26961881709869 24.935376385368095 (0,199)=60.18630167767603 24.806137200760716

Corners: (1,1)=60.2630730616441:24.7935199142722: (159,1)=:60.2692509292656:24.9358952148439: (1,199)=:60.186360328318:24.807038310258: (159, 199)=:60.1925381959395:24.9494136108297

readline() on closed filehandle API at contour.pl line 257.
Use of uninitialized value $key in scalar chomp at contour.pl line 258.
no key set at contour.pl line 260.

[dmnt]

Not quite yet.........



Something went wrong, return value 9. Process returned:


Yeah right, forgot to put that google API key file in place. :doh:

This time it works, I promise! (at least it did download for me) :D

[DRG]

Confirmed now working again

Thanks

Great program.......

[Grant1pa]

Confirmed now working again

Thanks

Great program.......

Seems like I'm having a problem downloading the .dat file. I get an error message "spmap.999.dat couldn't be downloaded". I've tried to open it in explorer as well as Edge and get the same error. It saves to my download as an IE icon file but won't open. Any ideas?

Tom

[Grant1pa]

Never mind....I got it working. I've been working in computers for over 40 years and it has been a Love-Hate relationship!!!

Tom

[MarkSheppard]

Question to dmnt:

I assume that the SP map files are like many other things, RLE (Run Length Encoded) -- I've looked at them myself over the years.

Is there a specific format they follow for their RLE compression?

[dmnt]

As far as I have figured out the format they're not - at least the parts I am poking. The height / tile / slope stuff there is just variable length data. Adding water to the mix has proven to be quite a challenge with the amount of time I can invest in it.

[lukerduker123]

Mind if I ask a question of my own?

Do you think we'll have satellite view in the foreseeable future? I've only got one monitor, and boy howdy it's a pain to switch between three different views (Game, Earth, map) to get everything down. Thanks for this masterpiece, by the way. It's already sped things up enough as it is!

[jp10]

I have 2 work arounds for making the maps with 1 monitor.

The first is simply to zoom in to where the grid is legible but covers a good sized area and print ou the screen image.

The second is involves using Photoshop. I open PS and create a new project (paper sized) and then I open my browser and go to the map maker website. When I have my location set I start in the lower left hand area of the 'map zone' and zoom in to a level that the grid appears legible. I then 'Print Screen' and switch to PS. I 'Paste' into the new document the screen shot, trim off the none map zone area of the image and print it out.
Reset view with a slight overlap and repeat.
Using a new layer each time I can sometimes get multiple zones on a single sheet of paper.

The second method (PS) is simply to reduce the amount of printing and paper shuffling. The first method is quicker but will take a lot of paper with a relatively small strip of the map on each page.

This way I can be in WINSP making a map and have a paper reference of the area I am making. I may not be an ideal work around for everyone and Sometimes I need a magnifier glass to read the details but it enables me to stay making the map and not constantly exiting WINSP to check the grid details with 1 monitor.

[dmnt]

Mind if I ask a question of my own?

Do you think we'll have satellite view in the foreseeable future? I've only got one monitor, and boy howdy it's a pain to switch between three different views (Game, Earth, map) to get everything down. Thanks for this masterpiece, by the way. It's already sped things up enough as it is!

I've thought about it, a lot, but the problem is that the good quality satellite view doesn't seem to be available outside of google maps and that does not work outside of google stuff - so I'd have to write a separate web app for that. And it's not the simplest thing ever.

If people have better ideas I'm all ears.

[dmnt]

We're lucky. Since I last checked things have progressed and now Google provides an API to get the actual satellite map tiles. It's not as straightforward as it is with the openstreetmap tiles we're currently showing, but still manageable. I'll add them as an option when I have some time.

[dmnt]

Had to go with Bing Maps API as Google requires "a contact to sales" before allowing the API. That means I should have a well defined use case and pay something for the privilege. This time Bing map tiles should be good enough.

Try http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo2.php#64,26,0 for early testing. Downloading maps won't work at this url as it's a work in progress.

[DRG]

Very nice! That's an excellent resource just as information alone. It's quick to adjust the location and the resolution and clarity seems better than Google.

[scorpio_rocks]

Awesome! Agree with Don seems much faster and clearer.

[RecruitMonty]

I can't seem to zoom in to the level of the grid. Might have something to do with Microsoft's absolutely useless "Edge".

[dmnt]

There are some bugs in that experimental version... I'll try to iron them out ASAP.

[MarkSheppard]

This is a 2019-2020 Feature Request

I am just wondering if it might be possible to add more flags to the SP random map generator; so that the RNG can leave the underlying contour map intact, and instead overlay terrain types/trees, etc on the map?

[DRG]

That was already on our work list for consideration last April but untangling the interconnected code is more complicated than it sounds.

[MarkSheppard]

Any progress on water generation for coastlines/etc?

[dmnt]

Any progress on water generation for coastlines/etc?

Unfortunately I've been way too busy with work, family and an injury. I had an ACL reconstruction and meniscus repair surgery last week and I'm still trying to recover from it. It's on the list of things I want to work on with but pretty much overriden by the list of things I have to work on.

[DRG]

The important thing is to get healthy and deal with RL first....whatever is left after that work on this wonderful map tool you have built

[DRG]

Here is another tool for mapmakers

https://elevationmap.net/

a graphic representation of the contours ( with the contour lines shown ) plus ready access to satellite imagery of the area

[DRG]

Another far simpler way to "reveal" the contours on a freshly generated Vehola is to use the new "Strip map" feature of the extended map editor.....it reveals the contours with one control.

[dmnt]

Good news, everyone!

I just today finished with the map tool update that provides the satellite view properly and with all the bugs fixed. Additionally there's a new download dialog which allows you to

specify the description text (spmapXXX.txt)
specify the map id number (1-999)
specify the map name

The created files are returned in a convenient ZIP package.

Map description text by default contains the URL of the downloaded map just in case you do the same as I did and lose precise coordinates where you created that map in.

New functionality also includes switching between map, combined and satellite view. In combined view you have a 50:50 mix of the map and the satellite view so you can still see the labels. The rotation is M (Map) -> (C) Combined -> (S) Satellite.

Enjoy, report back if anything goes terribly wrong! I had to use a lot of API requests to test and fix the bugs in the process, so if Google complains about those then you have to wait until the resources are free again.

[DRG]

Has there been a change of IP since http://www.venhola.com/maps/ ???

I cannot get a response. The screen stays blank

same for the link you provided in post 131

[dmnt]

Has there been a change of IP since http://www.venhola.com/maps/ ???

I cannot get a response. The screen stays blank

same for the link you provided in post 131

Not that I know of (since 2017). Have you tried using HTTPS? Or maybe your cache is returning you a mix n match of old and new code and shift+reload should do the trick and force an update.

try https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#24.0,60.2226329,12

[DRG]

OK that last link shows me a map area but how do I get to this screen?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15378&stc=1&d=1525700008

when I use

https://www.venhola.com/maps/

I can see the screen but it won't give me the map

[dmnt]

Try right click -> reload on the blank screen. There are two files, both of which have been changed and if you've recently visited the site your browser (or ISP) may serve you the old one.

I'll change that form target to HTTPS link as well so it'll ease up things a bit.

[dmnt]

Your field values take me to URL https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#2.774,50.379,0 which seems correct to me.

[DRG]

It's working for me now though I have not changed anything in the link I have been using all along.

Thats good news...a bit odd but computers can be...... I did run a map and everything was in the zip, the numbered CMT, DAT and TXT ( I KNEW adding the TXT to maps would come in handy )

As usual, this is truly "A thing of beauty"

Thanks again for creating it
:up::up:

Don

[DRG]

The only suggestions I can offer at this time would be to make "DOWNLOAD" a bit larger and more conspicuous.

The other is a bit more involved

First off I LOVE the 50/50 map satellite overlay ( really, really like that )....might it be possible to allow a DL of the map area that shows that overlay and the hex grid ? right now, there is no way to get the entire map with grid without doing multiple screen shots then manually piece them together

[dmnt]

The only suggestions I can offer at this time would be to make "DOWNLOAD" a bit larger and more conspicuous.

The other is a bit more involved

First off I LOVE the 50/50 map satellite overlay ( really, really like that )....might it be possible to allow a DL of the map area that shows that overlay and the hex grid ? right now, there is no way to get the entire map with grid without doing multiple screen shots then manually piece them together

First thing should be easy, I have an idea on how to do the second one... BUT: how large a map (resolution) should it be? I have three images attached where in each one pixel is approximately 5 meter, 2.5 meters and 1.25 meters across. The resolution of the image naturally doubles on each level of zoom.
So respective resolutions for the produced images will be about 1600x1200, 3200x2400 or 6400x4800 pixels. Zoom level sample images (~900x600 px) included in a zip file as they were larger than the max allowed attachment size for images.

I think it could be included in the downloaded zip file if requested so they're all served at once. In the download settings there will be
Map image:
(x) None
( ) Map
( ) Satellite
( ) Combined

It'll be then generated at server side.

[DRG]

I think after looking at these it's a toss-up between 2.5 and 5. 1.25 brings things in closer than I think it really needed.

The smaller the file DL'd the better as long as the grid numbers can be read when viewed zoomed it using a graphics program I think 5 would do the job BUT the test would be how it looks Map/Satellite Combined and what the final file size is.

Don

[dmnt]

http://www.venhola.com/maps/map.png

My first attempt (2670x2880, about 8 megabytes) at 5m per pixel resolution.

[dmnt]

Combined map view, 14 MB. http://www.venhola.com/maps/mapC.png

[DRG]

I think that serves the purpose well but the files do end up a bit on the large size .IDK how that would impact your server. Maybe it needs to be a " do you want a hex grid map ( 8-14mb approx ) Y/ N ? check box ?

Perhaps to save MB's just use the smaller map only view. A satellite overview is handy but perhaps not so much with the MB it adds. Thinking that basic map view is good enough

[zovs66]

Hey this is a pretty neat tool. Still trying to figure it all out. Would it be possible to also display the cities/town names in English? My Cyrillic, Arabic (was trying some NA maps) and other reading of languages is not that grand.


Thanks for this tool.

[dmnt]

I think that serves the purpose well but the files do end up a bit on the large size .IDK how that would impact your server. Maybe it needs to be a " do you want a hex grid map ( 8-14mb approx ) Y/ N ? check box ?

Perhaps to save MB's just use the smaller map only view. A satellite overview is handy but perhaps not so much with the MB it adds. Thinking that basic map view is good enough

Well, I'll put that image option to default "None" so people will only pick it if they really want it. And since we sold the dotcom last year I had to move everything to a dedicated server and there's not much to do for that server apart from serving HTTP requests and creating SPMBT maps.

[dmnt]

Hey this is a pretty neat tool. Still trying to figure it all out. Would it be possible to also display the cities/town names in English? My Cyrillic, Arabic (was trying some NA maps) and other reading of languages is not that grand.


Thanks for this tool.

The names come from the OpenStreetMap data and they are written in the image files themselves, so I can't help with that except by providing some help with cyrillic letters.

[zovs66]

Is this Smolensk?

CMoNEHCK


Tried to take a screen shot but the image is too big for this forum (300 kb)??!

[Imp]

Thanks for your time and updating this its a very good tool

[dmnt]

Smolensk = Смоленск

А,а = A, like u in "dust".
Б,б = B, as in bee
В,в = V, as in Victor
Г,г = G, as in good
Д,д = D, as in David
Е,е = E or Ye, as in Yeltsin
Ё,ё = O or Yo, as in York
Ж,ж = Zh, no direct equivalent. A bit like Z in zebra but further back; try saying Zhebra and you're close.
З,з = Z, as in zebra
И,и = I, as in bit
Й,й = short I, no direct equivalent.
К,к = K as in kick
Л,л = L as in last. Pronounced softer than the English counterpart.
М,м = M as in Maria
Н,н = N as in Nick
О,о = O as in Ohio
П,п = P as in happy
Р,р = rolling R but otherwise as in Roger
С,с = sharp S as in sit
Т,т = T as in tea
У,у = U like o in food
Ф,ф = F as in fit
Х,х = rough H or Kh, no direct equivalent, as in Khaled
Ц,ц = Ts, as in cats
Ч,ч = Ch, as in check
Ш,ш = Sh, as in shark
Щ,щ = Shch, no direct equivalent. Softer version of Sh.
Ъ,ъ = Hard sign, affects only pronounciation, sometimes marked with '
Ь,ь = Soft sign, affects only pronounciation
Ы,ы = Y (or I made in the rear in mouth), practically replaceable with either I or Y.
Э,э = E in the start of a word, as in electricity
Ю,ю = U or Yu, as in Yugoslavia
Я,я = A or Ya, a bit like in yard but shorter

Ye, Yo, Yu and Ya may fuse in pronounciation into the consonant before them to form a softer version of that; compare with N in newt and N in nephew.

Хорошего дня!
Khoroshego dnya! (have a nice day!)

There's also a script type (and handwritten type) which have some differences, but let's not go there.

[RightDeve]

Нощ дяЗ УФЦ ??
Пот Ъдф , ТндЖ

[Aeraaa]

Just a clarification: Smolensk is pronounced more like Smaliensk (stress on e). link for that: https://translate.google.gr/?hl=el#en/ru/smolensk

[RightDeve]

Late to the party...

So only this evening I got around digging about this tool, and reading this thread in full.

A huge thank you for dmnt!!

This venhola map tool not only creates the contour automatically for us, but gives hex overlay as well on the real map, complete with satellite view, thus easing the process of matching, and then drawing the map.

At first I thought it only covers European and Scandinavian area. Turns out it covers the whole earth!

Kudos!

[shahadi]

Late to the party...

So only this evening I got around digging about this tool, and reading this thread in full.

A huge thank you for dmnt!!

This venhola map tool not only creates the contour automatically for us, but gives hex overlay as well on the real map, complete with satellite view, thus easing the process of matching, and then drawing the map.

At first I thought it only covers European and Scandinavian area. Turns out it covers the whole earth!

Kudos!

IDK, I am not getting a hex overlay. And besides, there are no options to download, just click download. So, I know something is amiss, but what it is I don't know.

So, dmnt can we get step-by-step instructions?

<br>

[DRG]

I don't think he's implemented that feature yet

[RightDeve]

IDK, I am not getting a hex overlay. And besides, there are no options to download, just click download. So, I know something is amiss, but what it is I don't know.

So, dmnt can we get step-by-step instructions?



You need to press the + button (on the interface) so the area you're viewing will be bound by a box, and if you zoom in close enough there's hex overlay with hex coordinates.

The options to download full image is probably not implemented, but you can right click and save image, and it'll give you the map & hex overlay the size of your monitor screen size.

[shahadi]

IDK, I am not getting a hex overlay. And besides, there are no options to download, just click download. So, I know something is amiss, but what it is I don't know.

So, dmnt can we get step-by-step instructions?



You need to press the + button (on the interface) so the area you're viewing will be bound by a box, and if you zoom in close enough there's hex overlay with hex coordinates.

The options to download full image is probably not implemented, but you can right click and save image, and it'll give you the map & hex overlay the size of your monitor screen size.

Bingo! You the man RightDave.

Produced a PNG file, resulting in a very good print copy as well.

<br>

[dmnt]

IDK, I am not getting a hex overlay. And besides, there are no options to download, just click download. So, I know something is amiss, but what it is I don't know.

So, dmnt can we get step-by-step instructions?



You need to press the + button (on the interface) so the area you're viewing will be bound by a box, and if you zoom in close enough there's hex overlay with hex coordinates.

The options to download full image is probably not implemented, but you can right click and save image, and it'll give you the map & hex overlay the size of your monitor screen size.

Additionally you can rotate the map with shift + alt + mouse drag in case you don't want to create exactly west-east oriented map. The cross hair needs to be clicked after that for the rotation to apply to the selected hex grid.

"The enemy may come from any direction. East, south, north. Also from the west, but then it has performed a hooking manoeuvre." -- FDF Army officer in the 80's.

[mkr8683]

When I load my maps into the game, I get the contours on the mini-map but there is nothing but clear terrain on the actual game map :confused: What the hell?

[zovs66]

mkr8683, I got the same, I thought that is what it's supposed to do. Did not think it made a map of any kind.

[DRG]

I thought by now everyone was clear on the procedure......apparently not.

YOU need to " reveal" the contours with the game map editor or the extended editor

You need to flood fill the entire map with a terrain that follows contours.......bare earth is a good one. Open the map, set Fill range to 250 then block fill the entire map by right clicking on the map....... OR the easier way if you own the CD version is detailed in my post 159 in this thread

[DRG]

From the README file

### Getting the terrain
+
+After picking a good location so that all areas of interests are covered by the map click the Download button. Generating the
+map will take about half a minute but you can continue to use the UI while waiting. When the source map is generated it should
+be copied to game directory tiled "Maps". It will be map number 999 and will be overwritten by autosave if you work with any
+other map in the WinSPMBT map editor.
+
+After opening the map go to second page of tools (either by clicking the blue triangle or "n" key on your keyboard) and choose
+clear keeping the current contour. Do not click on any hex but choose then Fill range button and enter 255 in. Then press the
+fill button and the terrain should be finished.

[zovs66]

Hmm, I must be doing something wrong, I followed DRG instructions in post #190 (I have the full paid for version) and the first time through per the instructions here:

"After opening the map go to second page of tools (either by clicking the blue triangle or "n" key on your keyboard) and choose
clear keeping the current contour"

That just clears the map of everything including the contours. The second time through I did not click the clear button and the contours stayed by the map is still a big empty blank map.

I tried both selecting block fill and 1-90 fill, nothing changed.

I don't know?

[RightDeve]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/JP6XItf8Bb2Y5Xm5KSOTnZ5VNN7TIpLDJGLa_Bw61ObI6UtKwZ y9FHay3yqNTy312zFA7a5HnXIkZUnwl1nmnImy4KZs--q_6mueLNiB92xP1yQ9vKgpp_W4W_-d8SDfgz82TIic_1DdBWWDeImi5Kp0VeMX0ecD9fpej13sO1Vn8 kjHUesY4TkfqusY106hPzGcasoVmJZTjBhApUEm0xPE9dFOukl Z4FVNX6TUJebPSmBkIOFKgZwM4QSlkP_I3KbKDLSLytN0IFiJy szTg3jicP9YzskxjtjXr8fvqkH_1XwxGUl_ZiOYnksdEFy3Uf1 2xyF3wOMhIFssZ-0Ij_5r7UPJFJ0nZdLobKHNIplh38nwrcSQ6MUYJAl32gIcklzg V_-bBuSXXG8lMmWcISqBGnUKkZ-BCFzbjYz5T6ryZCWXDbVCyU52-IEWgbBsadBB-UmLsLO8SYPVOQted_MulLtJ1-dOmWM2Wjln4ZnQRS986YnG2Vzcn0onubjZzfe0CnzOhiKLxXJs HbWRZA7BM58913T6l7pHdTpmVYsE2bvS7lmj3zDC5gaixYD6Qs FjvRtigxoQS3ytPfYN373JiMQISn4xZ75Gm8sN9cZXo4IG9z9R ONHeZUoo9u3x_hM4zzhAyD10iGZLCwbxaJGnmuQKxlX5=w105-h616-no

If you have the CD version, open the Extended Map Editor. Use the "Strip" button at the bottom, thus revealing the Venhola contours on the real map, not just the minimap. Very simple.

Otherwise, use the top button (circled), which resides on page 2 of the button-interface. Set a huge fill area by using the "Fill Range" button (just above the blue "play" button). And then you can right click on the map to start manually filling the whole map with that clear terrain.

[DRG]

We have NO IDEA what map area you selected and for all we know it IS dead flat !

Post the link you are using

[zovs66]

Maybe that is the issue, the map is dead flat, I was thinking that trees, rivers, gulley's, hills ect. would be populated, but maybe I was wrong in my assumption. Also, I was using this in SPWW2, maybe it does not work in that. I generated maps for Smolensk, Minsk and Sevastopol areas (they are all just blank open ground maps, with some contours).

Here is one link:

https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#54.67889290088476,31.97989654960111,0

It's just a big blank map with some contours, none of the fill options brings in any woods or anything.

[DRG]

All you get is the contours...... IF the map has any..... You have to add the trees etc......of course it works with SPWW2.... both games used the exact same map code but that link you posted shows plenty of contours

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15394&stc=1&d=1526869351

it's up to you to add in everything else. In map making for historical maps getting the contours, right was a BIG part of the work......this eliminates that part of the work but it doesn't hand you a finished map

[zovs66]

Okay I got it, I was thinking that for some reason that it some how knew how to add terrain to the map hexes. My misunderstanding.

[jp10]

I am posting this here since i am working on a map generated from the Venhola map tool.

From the WINSPMBT Game Guide:

Terrain, hills and LOS

Each level of hill in the game is broken down into 10 units. Ground level terrain that is "5" high is midway to being a level 1 hill. Level 1 terrain that reports as being "15" high is midway to being a level 2 hill etc, etc to the top level ( level 15 )

The game does not block LOS behind a "bump" in the map until it gets to be 4 higher than the base height for that level ( ground level would be 4, level 1 would be 14, level 2 would be 24 etc etc. ). It will allow you to see over and behind any "bump" 3 and under so any terrain 3 and under above the level you are on will offer neither cover nor concealment.



For example.....



If a unit is at zero height directly behind a 4 high "bump" that is three hexes long , LOS will be blocked for 2 hexes behind the bump. If that 4 high bump is 4 hexes long, LOS will be blocked completely right across the map. If the bump is 5 high even one hex will totally block LOS.



We are currently considering that each unit of height roughly represents 24 inches or .6 meters. As a simple rule of thumb this would make each hill level represent roughly 20 feet or 6 meters of height


So:
Height 1 = 20 feet/6 meters
2 = 40/12
3 = 60/24
4 = 80/30
5 = 100/36
6 = 120/42
7 = 140/48
8 = 160/54
9 = 180/60
10 = 200/66
11 = 220/72
12 = 240/78
13 = 260/84
14 = 280/90
15 = 300/96

The reason for my seemingly grognard questioning is I am working on a map that highest peaks need to be 656'/200m and I need to set the ratio to translate the scale to WINSPMBT height system. I am calculating that if level 15 300'/96m will be simulating the 656'/200m then each 100'/33m of real height should be a 2.5 level increase on the map. Sounds good?

[Imp]

This map does have level zero terrain as well?
Ask as hill heights needed are those between min & max terrain height.

Messing with vertical scale has issues, namely blind hexes produced.
The game produces blind hexes based on the height per level set by the game, increasing it means it should block less hexes if looking over lower terrain.

You are wrong regarding 4 height bumps they do block LOS but not by much because its a bump. Even do so from a slightly higher hill so long as the bump is not close enough to see over.

Put a unit on a level 1 hill and make some level 4 bumps 20 odd hexes away they will block LOS to the hex behind them.
If the bumps are closer guessing 8 or less hexes they will not block anything as close enough to see over.

From the same level view can change radically over a bump if other hinderance terrain comes into play.
View can also change due to visibility level with this type of feature, hinderance terrain combinations, smoke etc block LOS far quicker in low visibility compared to high.
Put some high grass on a flat map position units to see across 3 or 4 and adjust the visibility to see this.
This type of terrain can be great for units with vision aids as it might be enough for them to see more.

[jp10]

It is coastal on the western edge so it has zero and minus terrain level. What I believe is if I make the highest terrain 15 which in real life is 625'/200m then making a 100'/33m elevation change a 2.5 height hex then the terrain relationship of the map will relativistic to the real world location even if the game guide's consideration will not equate the level 15 hex to being 625'/200m.

[Mobhack]

There are only 15 hill levels (the original game had but 3 remember!) so the only way one can do it is to "smooth" the real terrain heights to fit into the 15 levels, with level 0 being major water (sea, lakes etc). Level 0 is the "16th" level.

It will be up to the map designer to decide if certain bits of the higher ground, especially slopes are to be perhaps rough or even impassable. I used a lot of impassable for the escarpment in my scenario #428 in WW2 "Operation Brevity".

[dmnt]

I am posting this here since i am working on a map generated from the Venhola map tool.

We are currently considering that each unit of height roughly represents 24 inches or .6 meters. As a simple rule of thumb this would make each hill level represent roughly 20 feet or 6 meters of height


So:
Height 1 = 20 feet/6 meters
2 = 40/12
3 = 60/24
4 = 80/30
5 = 100/36
6 = 120/42
7 = 140/48
8 = 160/54
9 = 180/60
10 = 200/66
11 = 220/72
12 = 240/78
13 = 260/84
14 = 280/90
15 = 300/96

The reason for my seemingly grognard questioning is I am working on a map that highest peaks need to be 656'/200m and I need to set the ratio to translate the scale to WINSPMBT height system. I am calculating that if level 15 300'/96m will be simulating the 656'/200m then each 100'/33m of real height should be a 2.5 level increase on the map. Sounds good?

The map tool assumes 10 meters / level (see the adjustable number 10 next to ↕ character). If you change that to 6 it should produce these numbers. Back to the days when I started there wasn't a definitive guide so I assumed that height is metric and the unit is one meter and went on with that.

I may change the default to 6 meters now, tho.

By default the system uses the lowest point of terrain as the lowest level (height 0) and then converts the terrain features into WinSPMBT map by the said conversion logic. Any height exceeding will be "clipped", that is made to be level 15 if it's higher than 160 meters from the lowest point (or 96 meters on 6 meter step setting). Additionally if you download the source code and run it on command line you can have a manually set lowest point.

For your terrain, you'll have two options:
* compress; set the terrain level to be 200 m / 16 = 12.5 meters
* clip; let the highest points in the terrain be flat level 15 areas and work it with the terrain settings but making the peaks impassable

[dmnt]

Just checked the source code, unfortunately the clipping is not the default but compression. I'll probably modify that when I can make sure the level parameters work properly.

[dmnt]

Updated the code; fixed the bug where the level setting actually had no effect to the produced map terrain. The map that is produced is still always compressed, so highest peaks should be level 15 unless the terrain hasn't that much height difference (< 96 m total). I will include that change in the next version because the absolute level height is something the map makers can easily set themselves.

[DRG]

It may just be my server ATM but it seems very slow resizing and showing the map area now. Zooming the map out takes much longer now to redraw all the areas

[dmnt]

The map tiles are cached but in case of cache miss they're loaded from the source which unfortunately seems very slow at the moment.

[DRG]

We will be looking for a way to allow water to be added to maps that will only fill in the level zero area with water with the press of a button that leaves all terrain >0 untouched. This will allow maps with island and/or coastline to add water without it being nearly so much the chore it can be now...it's "on the list" and it seems doable but we will see, hopefully, we can get it to work.

Don

Example This is what is generated for Latitude 45.41 Longitude -80.33

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15490&stc=1&d=1532537442

This is what the code change we are looking into would do

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15491&stc=1&d=1532537497




Also there seems to be a new problem. I tried to use the info generated in the txt file

https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#45.41,-80.33,0

but all I get when I try to use it is a spot on Antarctica not 45.41,-80.33

This is what it should be....at least according to the info the map shows when I get the area I want

https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#-80.33,45.41,0

so lat and long are being reverse in the txt file info or the generated info

[dmnt]

I'll fix the incorrect order when I have a little bit of idle time at hand...

[zovs66]

I was trying to use height maps to create a general map of Chicagof Harbor, Alaska for a scenario. When I clicked download I got this:

Something went wrong, return value 25. Process returned:
coords => 52.96321283412573,-186.8328929199117,52.97528448282716,-186.71612236361415,52.899041862082925,-186.69402909927055,52.886948927830815,-186.81079965556805
level => 10.000000
dx = (52.97528448282716 - 52.96321283412573)/158, -186.71612236361415 - -186.8328929199117)/158)
dy = (52.886948927830815 - 52.96321283412573)/198, -186.81079965556805 - -186.8328929199117 - .5*0.000734406014450017)/198)
Zero 52.96321283412573, -186.8328929199117
dx 7.59223188769578e-05:0.000734406014450017, dy -0.000383235710024683:0.000109176187620239
Corners: (0,0)=52.96321283412573 -186.8328929199117 (159,0)=52.97528448282716 -186.71612236361415 (0,199)=52.886948927830815 -186.81079965556805

Corners: (1,1)=52.962943481894:-186.831682134702: (159,1)=:52.9749392082766:-186.715645984419: (1,199)=:52.8870628113091:-186.810065249554: (159, 199)=:52.8990585376917:-186.69402909927

Error: INVALID_REQUEST at contour.pl line 305.

Any idea on how to fix?

I am a totally newbie to using this. I have generator a map once or twice with contours but this is a first.

[zovs66]

Was zoomed in a lot, so I zoom out and still get similar errors as above post.

https://i.imgur.com/1ABySXn.png

This is the place/area:
https://i.imgur.com/xMJIJ4K.png

[DRG]

I ran it for that location and didn't get an error report ....... I didn't get anything so I entered in something "safe" 20 and -50 then zoomed WAY out......found Alaska then zoomed in on Chicagof Harbor........ try that

however the height of the mountains is greater than the 15 levels the game can handle so you need to use something >10 for height level but even at 30 it still gives you flat topped mountains so you might have to do this one the old fashioned way unless you want to stick close to the water and even then that map would be beyond the range of the game. I tried everything from 1 to 50 for the height and didn't get anything that looked worthwhile

[zovs66]

Many thanks DRG, entering in manual and imagination mode lol

[zovs66]

So I have been trying to use the map contour tool to capture a port city in China, maybe that is why its not working?

Keep getting:


Something went wrong, return value 25. Process returned:
coords => 42.36450103414592,-229.6614667649802,42.37657601400895,-229.56625353358325,42.30032998536339,-229.54823896589633,42.28824035718657,-229.64345219729324
level => 10.000000
dx = (42.37657601400895 - 42.36450103414592)/158, -229.56625353358325 - -229.6614667649802)/158)
dy = (42.28824035718657 - 42.36450103414592)/198, -229.64345219729324 - -229.6614667649802 - .5*0.000598825354697736)/198)
Zero 42.36450103414592, -229.6614667649802
dx 7.59432695788048e-05:0.000598825354697736, dy -0.000383219482207791:8.90208794452178e-05
Corners: (0,0)=42.36450103414592 -229.6614667649802 (159,0)=42.37657601400895 -229.56625353358325 (0,199)=42.28824035718657 -229.64345219729324

Corners: (1,1)=42.3642317295681:-229.660479506069: (159,1)=:42.3762307661615:-229.565865100026: (1,199)=:42.2883542720909:-229.642853371939: (159, 199)=:42.3003533086844:-229.548238965896

Error: INVALID_REQUEST at contour.pl line 305.


No matter where in the area I try.

Trying this url essentially:

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=42.339788000983475&lo=-229.53358178590747&rot=0

(Chongjin, Korea I)

Or:

http://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php?lat=42.339788000983475&lo=-229.53358178590747&rot=0

Chongjin, Korea II

Level 10 in both cases, but it always generators the error thingy.

Thoughts?

Chinese are blocking this app?

[DRG]

Try

https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#129.7234,41.7670,0

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15627&stc=1&d=1545428898

[zovs66]

Thanks! That worked like a charm!

Got to figure out why some of my maps won't generate.

[shahadi]

We will be looking for a way to allow water to be added to maps that will only fill in the level zero area with water with the press of a button that leaves all terrain >0 untouched. This will allow maps with island and/or coastline to add water without it being nearly so much the chore it can be now...it's "on the list" and it seems doable but we will see, hopefully, we can get it to work.

Don


Are you guys close to adding water to the maps?

https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#105.8255,10.32159999999999,0

Here is the result after loading in the map editor after pressing "strip map,"

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15670&stc=1&d=1550432570

I have started to draw the map in Extended Map Editor, it is a painstaking process indeed.

If anyone is interested, the Dinh Tuong zip has relevant files.

<br>

[DRG]

We have added the ability to flood fill areas of the map that show up from Venhola as zero elevation and it will be included with the next patch for CD owners

https://i.imgur.com/ltO6FkJ.png

[DRG]

That map you included is useless for that function as too much of the area has been set to zero elevation so it will need to be regenerated with Venhola with the elevations adjusted so your water is zero and the shorelines show up more than that otherwise you get what you show but mostly blue with a little pimple of land

.....but it only works when there is a defined shortline.... if most of the land near the water is barely above water level Venhola cannot differentiate land from water and we have no magic wand to make it do that so there WILL be cases this flood fill cannot work. There have to be contour lines above water level for it to do what you want

[DRG]

This was my 5th try and the contours were set to 2.... the land is just too flat
https://i.imgur.com/VEs1ggn.png

[DRG]

This is a start you can take it from there..... in cases like this you may need to generate a number of maps with progressively lower contour numbers to get the result you want. This used 2 IIRC which gave the river but perhaps made the land too bumpy

[DRG]

here's a section of Norwegian Coastline using Vehola and the new flood fill water feature. Try to imagine how long that would take by hand just to get to that point.....


https://i.imgur.com/MyHZH4y.png

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Something I'll never use, I just don't do this kind of thing since my focus is elsewhere. That being said to see the development to the final process I can most certainly appreciate the effort and time many of you will (Have.) put into the use of this new feature.

The end product looks AWESOME!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[DRG]

A section of Greek coast at Alexandroupoli
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15676&stc=1&d=1550494987
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15677&stc=1&d=1550495093
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15678&stc=1&d=1550495361

[Mobhack]

The flood fill was a wee bit tricky until I figured out how too get the edging done properly. The regular fill with water code just slams in lake hexes and nukes adjoining land - so large areas left you with having to do the bulk by block fill and then the edges painstakingly by hand hex-by-hex. Once I had it sorted to not nuke adjacent land, it worked excellently.

It'll not be a common tool for map makers, but it fills in good sized rivers just fine as well as the large bits of open water.

[shahadi]

The flood fill was a wee bit tricky until I figured out how too get the edging done properly. The regular fill with water code just slams in lake hexes and nukes adjoining land - so large areas left you with having to do the bulk by block fill and then the edges painstakingly by hand hex-by-hex. Once I had it sorted to not nuke adjacent land, it worked excellently.

It'll not be a common tool for map makers, but it fills in good sized rivers just fine as well as the large bits of open water.

That is exactly what I am doing at this moment from the fill DRG performed on the Dinh Tuong map, by hand leveling the adjoining land river hexes, then block fill large land areas.

A great project, much anticipated enhancement, my thanks to the dev team.

<br>

[DRG]

When the upgrade is released and you have the chance to use the feature be aware that if the coast has a large beach but not a lot of elevation the Venhola may record that as the same elevation as the water and the flood fill will cover it with water so in cases like that the beach will need to be put back in manually ( it's still easier than putting in all the water manually .....) but any place with even moderate elevation changes from water level the flood fill works great

[Kailux]

Hey dmnt,

i've been looking at the outdoors map (https://www.thunderforest.com/maps/outdoors/) a bit closer, since it gives some nice contour lines and by doing so, stumbled upon the vector map (https://www.thunderforest.com/docs/vector-maps-api/).

I'm a bit rusty, but doesn't mean "vector (https://docs.mapbox.com/vector-tiles/reference/)": it's not a "flat" picture, but got all the elements saved as entities? Like a XML file of the map containing location, size, shape and type of all elements (different layers)?
There is a road on XY, there is a built up area on XY shaped Z way and the like so you can style these elements the way you like? (https://www.thunderforest.com/docs/thunderforest.outdoors-v1/)

If so, shouldn't this make a more or less automatic map creation possible? Way beyond the elevation data?

Since tile request is limited, use it only for the "backend" download creation.

Edit: https://openlayers.org/en/latest/examples/vector-tile-info.html <3

[dmnt]

I'll try and look into this when I get a bit of free time on my hands. The biggest issue with map generation is that I have to work "in the dark", so not knowing the actual way how the map binaries are built. And reverse engineering it is slow and cumbersome way of figuring it out.

I'll check what I can do with the beach map building. I'll update my SPMBT version today and the backend already supports things like setting the level offset: I could tweak it to always keep water as 0 and then land would be 1-3 at the lowest level if that is enough to create the land/sea boundary properly.

[zovs66]

Is the venhola tool or server down?

I was just using it last week and was trying to access a location in Siberia:

https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#106.45,50.35,0

It just comes up white. Also when you zoom in and out nothing but white.

?

[scorpio_rocks]

I am just getting white too :(

[DRG]

I had that happen as well a couple of days ago. I had hoped it was just temporary

[DRG]

FWIW I just tried DLing one, kinda / sorta blind and I got a map from an area somewhere near Vienna so with perseverance and luck you might get something but there is definitely a problem with that server

[DRG]

This one is from an area around Munich and it looks pretty good and might be useful to someone as it is a seriously interesting map


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15908&stc=1&d=1578442424

https://i.imgur.com/mbreLjx.png

[DRG]

So the bottom line is it does work it just takes some patience to make it work

[DRG]

I got another one that's even better than the first. The river course is really obvious

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15912&stc=1&d=1578444050

https://i.imgur.com/QWeVZ9U.png

[zovs66]

Man I am still having massive issues with this wonderful tool.

When I go to a location (using the correct coordinates) it just gives me a white page and then if I zoom almost all the way out, eventually the map will paint. But then when I zoom back in the map stays the same size and then eventually turns to white. And when I download a map it's empty.

Just trying to get a part of Dublin for a scenario I am making (Near the Court House) but having absolutely no luck in getting this great tool to work anymore.

https://www.venhola.com/maps/geo.php#-6.266667,53.35,0

[DRG]

Have you tried entering the exact co-ordinates you want then DL the map and check it ? It will work it just won't show the location exactly so you have to pick the precise centre of the area then enter the coordinates. I use Bing maps for that as you can right-click on the spot and the Lat and Long are displayed without having to do another step like Google.

Think of it as IFR flight. There is something wrong with the server to make it that slow. Treat it like it's 1990.

But yeah, it's NFG ATM

[zovs66]

Don thanks that was a brilliant suggestion!

At least I got a nice strip map of the area I wanted.

Thanks!

[DRG]

I have found when you get the white screen is you keep zooming out you will eventually pick up the map and then can zoom in and maintain it but it will be fuzzy so you don't have the fine control but you can get close and with practice, close enough in most cases. It can be frustrating but at least it's not entirely dead in the water.

For all the brilliance this thing can bring to the game (and that map example I posted is a good example. To create those contours by hand would take a week of manual work )....... the "map centring" routine is tedious after awhile. It would be much better to be able to lock on the map boundary and move it to where you want rather than moving the map to it

[zovs66]

Also, I just discovered that the 'M' and 'S' buttons work (map and satellite), just an FYI.

[DRG]

Also, I just discovered that the 'M' and 'S' buttons work (map and satellite), just an FYI.

Yes, you can click on that until the satellite image appears and see what you need to see so it's more usable than it first appears to be

[Mr9million]

Thank you for creating this great tool! I am underway creating my first map but am having difficulties placing things in the right hex. I may be a little bit stupid, I know. But could you maybe add an option to display the coordinates in every hex? I don't know how difficult that would be to code etc. so I'm not demanding anything. It would help me greatly though!

[zovs66]

Mr9million, well it's mostly there its just a little bit of counting on your part. It's not too difficult to use once you get the hang of it:

https://i.imgur.com/gctk2Bb.jpg

[Mr9million]

Mr9million, well it's mostly there its just a little bit of counting on your part. It's not too difficult to use once you get the hang of it:

https://i.imgur.com/gctk2Bb.jpg
Ok, I have started using my school laptop and it increased the speed tenfold. I have the venhola map on my laptop and the editor on my computer. Wish I had thought of that earlier... :D

[wulfir]

I'm unable to download Venhola maps now. It worked for me about a month ago. Anybody else have this problem?

[Karagin]

Where do we get Venholda Map editing program at? I can find a link and I get a white screen with some buttons and a box in the middle but nothing else.

[zovs66]

https://www.venhola.com/maps/

[zovs66]

So using that link I posted above (yes it's all blank boxes you have to fill it out), here is another link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mons

Click on the link on the far right that shows the coordinates:

https://i.imgur.com/3IH1vve.png

Then on that GeoHack page (says Geohack - Battle of Mons on the left), pick your poison, I'll use Google Maps and click on that Map link, that brings up google maps.

https://i.imgur.com/ZpSycbR.png

Now just copy the coordinates:

50.450000, 3.950000

I paste that into both boxes and edit them like so:

https://i.imgur.com/hAu2Sad.png

Then click go!

Your pretty much all set.

Now just click the M on the right to toggle the imagery...

https://i.imgur.com/ALGdCPr.jpg

and zoom in...

https://i.imgur.com/df75UKd.jpg

[Karagin]

Then just download the map?

[wulfir]

Then just download the map?

You get the height contours of your selected area drawn on the game map.

Everything else you will have to manually add yourself - roads, woods, water, urban areas etc. But, the hexgrid in the Venhola program corresponds to the one in the game so it is a great help when map making - even if it is time consuming should you go for crazy detail and the map is complex.

I recommend using a second screen of some kind, one with the venhola map, one screen with the game to speed things up. The last few maps I've built I used the TV (HDMI cable) as my second screen.

Buut - Venhola is not working for me anymore... :(

[DRG]

Then just download the map?

You get the height contours of your selected area drawn on the game map.

Everything else you will have to manually add yourself - roads, woods, water, urban areas etc. But, the hexgrid in the Venhola program corresponds to the one in the game so it is a great help when map making - even if it is time consuming should you go for crazy detail and the map is complex.

I recommend using a second screen of some kind, one with the venhola map, one screen with the game to speed things up. The last few maps I've built I used the TV (HDMI cable) as my second screen.

Buut - Venhola is not working for me anymore... :(


It works...... mostly

If the bottom button shows M and the screen is white........
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16184&stc=1&d=1605650403

Press it and it will turn to C and you will start to see the map
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16187&stc=1&d=1605650561

Press it again and the map will be clear

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16188&stc=1&d=1605650652