Help with setup

[wulfir]

I would like some help with the purchase and deployment of the Soviet forces in the attached scenario. It does not matter if you are an experienced player or not.

I need you to:
1) Buy the Russian forces.
2) Deploy them on the map.
3) Save and uplad the files here.

Rules:
- The Soviet force should be realistic.
- The Soviet units must all be drawn from the VDV airborne forces.
- Any artillery must be of the type found in airborne divisions.
- All artillery must also be deployed on map, i.e. no off map arty.
- Supporting Air Strike Elements should be of the long range type.


Background:

It is August 1985. WWIII has broken out in Europe. Heavy fighting on the central front rages. The Soviet Union demands free pasasge through Finland and Sweden, when this is denied both countries are attacked. While heavy fighting in Finland rages a sea and airborne invasion of southern Sweden is staged by WP forces, primarily Sovet units.

One airborne operation is directed against the smaller size Everoed Airfield.

The Soviet airborne force manages to dislodge the incomplete home guard and local defence units at Everoed and capture the runway intact. The size of the Soviet force and if it has access to supporting arms and airborne AFVs is unknown.

Approaching the airfield, two hours after it was first sized by the Soviets, are elements of the Swedish PB26 Armoured Brigade...



http://40.media.tumblr.com/47e0a46eb635a6315a71eeb53d38ffd4/tumblr_nmig5nKuRy1u8xigto1_1280.png

[Duzmond]

Is there some website that would give someone an idea of what realistic forces would be? I'd like to do it,but I'm not sure I can be as realistic as you would like.

[wulfir]

http://www.societaitalianastoriamilitare.org/libri%20in%20regalo/2001%20JOHNSON%20Warsaw-Pact-Order-of-Battle-June-1989.pdf

Here's an example:


Soviet Air Assault Brigade

Bde HQ (3 inf SAM)

2 Assault Bn (each with 34 BMD, 8 120mm Mortar, 6 AGS-17, 9 SPG-9, 9 inf-SAM)

2 Parachute Bn (each with 500 troops, 6 inf-ATGM, 8 120mm Mortar, 6 AGS-17, 9 SPG-9, 9 inf-SAM)

Recon Company (4 BRDM-2)

Artillery Battalion (18 D-30)

Air Defense Company (6 ZU-23, 6 inf-SAM)



Not all these formations need to be present on the map, nor do they have to be complete. The Airborne company/companies can for instance be mostly leg infantry (less transports needed to drop infantry than both the infantry and their BMDs).

(I ignored the BM-21 of the artillery bn as I doubt they can be dropped with parachute. I'm not so sure about the BRDM-2s, but maybe they were able to drop them with parachutes.)

You decide the strength of the Soviets - the drop might have gone wrong, maybe it went perfectly. Maybe they have other more important operations where resources are allocated, this could be a feint - maybe this is the crucial operation. The Soviet objecive is however the airfield.

Do not worry about playbalance - this setup allows for totally loopsided affairs.

[Suhiir]

I'll give it a go too.

Couple questions ...
I'm not overly familiar with Soviet aircraft, what aircraft types are long range ground support?
Is it possible (in range?) for one of the Air Assault Bns to have been delivered via helo?

[Suhiir]

Duzmond

You might find this useful.
http://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf

[wulfir]

I'm not overly familiar with Soviet aircraft, what aircraft types are long range ground support?

IIRC the Su-24 had greater range than the Su-7, Su-17 or the Su-25.



Is it possible (in range?) for one of the Air Assault Bns to have been delivered via helo?

If they are flying from East Germany or Poland it's doable. With the bigger helicopters like the Mi-6 it might even be possible from Kaliningrad/the Baltic Military District - but maybe not fully loaded... (?)

[Suhiir]

Been doing some digging.
Apparently the BMD-2 and RPG-22 were both introduced in 1985 so unless this is a critically important objective it's not likely they'll be present.

I think it's probable there would be one helo lift of some of the heavier equipment (ASU-85s, a few ATGs, and general supplies/ammo). And probably a couple MI-24s (flown in if they can mid-air refuel or as cargo).

[wulfir]

Been doing some digging.
Apparently the BMD-2 and RPG-22 were both introduced in 1985 so unless this is a critically important objective it's not likely they'll be present.

Well, there's the the BMD-1...

But to put things in context - there's a major war in Europe, the central front is the WP Schwerpunkt. It is belived that to the Soviets/WP Sweden is not of any great importance in itself, but Norway is - and forcing the Norwegian Lyngen position requires moving through Sweden.

An invasion of Finland and northern Sweden is being undertaken by TVD Northwest, while elements of TVD West stage an airborne and amphibous invasion of Gotland island and the south of Sweden.

The bulk of the qualified amphibous assets are depoyed against Denmark, but the Soviets have taken notice of the British invasion at San Carlos water and attempt to establish bridgeheads over open beach on multiple locations along the Swedish coast with less qualified naval and army assets.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/78ef1497454d3f89cddc7e4e33ddd5d3/tumblr_nmj7pvVYld1u8xigto1_1280.png

If all goes well the airborne element is not expected to hold on its own for too long before there's a linkup with seaborne forces. The high capacity container harbour of Åhus could be of importance to further Soviet operations, but multiple landings are staged on other locations threatening to overwhelm the Swedish defence...

[Suhiir]

That helps!

Good to know the overall situation to put the scenario into prospective.

I'm presuming the entire Airborne Brigade isn't at the airfield. I'd say about half, the other half being used elsewhere or in reserve for future operations.

They landed about three hours ago so probably have foxholes and a few mines out but that's about it.

[wulfir]

I'm presuming the entire Airborne Brigade isn't at the airfield. I'd say about half, the other half being used elsewhere or in reserve for future operations.

You are the boss. :)

Most of the brigade, or portions - your call.

If you wish draw forces from a Soviet Airborne division...

The Soviets do not have to be in perfect shape either, friction happens in war. They have managed, without too much effort, to defeat the weak Swedish local defence at the airport, and secure the landing strip intact.

Soviet recon assets have also picked up signs of a Swedish counterattack - elements of the Swedish PB26 Armoured Brigade are belived to be en route...

[Airborne Rifles]

I'd be happy to give it a try as well. I have personal experience with airborne operations (US ones) and the friction that goes along with them. I've also looked a good deal Soviet airborne capabilities.

I haven't ever done any PBEM though, so I'd have to figure that out.

[Airborne Rifles]

The Russians actually developed more sophisticated ways to drop armored vehicles by parachute than did the U.S. they drop the vehicles on platforms fitted with retro-rockets that fire a coue meters above the ground to soften the landing. They also drop the vehicles with the crew already inside (not something I'd like to do!) so that they can cut the straps and just roll off the platform when they hit the ground. IIRC the Soviets had a pretty massive military airlift capacity back in the day.

[wulfir]

I haven't ever done any PBEM though, so I'd have to figure that out.

Gracias!

This is not a PBEM game exaclty - all you need to do is open the scenario in the editor. Buy and deploy the defending Soviet forces.

Then save.

Then upload the files here.

I don't want to know the size or make up of the Soviet force. Playbalance is not an issue. :)

[Airborne Rifles]

Sounds good, I should be able to get to it either this evening or tomorrow.

[Suhiir]

Soviet recon assets have also picked up signs of a Swedish counterattack - elements of the Swedish PB26 Armoured Brigade are belived to be en route...

Paratroops vs tanks ... sounds familiar ... Arnhem anyone?

[wulfir]

Paratroops vs tanks ... sounds familiar ... Arnhem anyone?

:)

...or maybe the Turkish operation against Aghirda - Kyrenia. ;)

[Duzmond]

I've begun the purchasing and deployment. Nice large map!:cool:

[wulfir]

I've begun the purchasing and deployment.


Great! :up:

[Suhiir]

For what you are about to receive may you be truly grateful.

Enjoy!

I'll be curious to see this with the Swedish forces added.

[wulfir]

Enjoy!


Many thanks! :) :up:

[Airborne Rifles]

Za Rodina!

I think I've set you up a pretty realistic aftermath of a successful airborne assault. I'd be glad to see the finished product!

[wulfir]

I think I've set you up a pretty realistic aftermath of a successful airborne assault.

Spasiba, comrade! :) :up:

[Duzmond]

Here is the deployment. I wanted to dig some units in,but it was not working for some reason.

[Suhiir]

Duzmond, to dig in part of your forces (but not all of them) deploy as usual then set all the units you do not want dug in to reinforce (I usually set to turn 1) then change the scenario to an "assault" type and hit the "Dig In" button, change the scenario back to whatever type it originally was and go thru then reset the units you had as reinforcements (the ones you didn't want dug in) to reinforce turn 0.
Walla!

[Duzmond]

Duzmond, to dig in part of your forces (but not all of them) deploy as usual then set all the units you do not want dug in to reinforce (I usually set to turn 1) then change the scenario to an "assault" type and hit the "Dig In" button, change the scenario back to whatever type it originally was and go thru then reset the units you had as reinforcements (the ones you didn't want dug in) to reinforce turn 0.
Walla!

Forgot about the game modes,
So does this mean that any game mode can have the barbed wire,mines,foxholes,etc?

[Suhiir]

Duzmond, to dig in part of your forces (but not all of them) deploy as usual then set all the units you do not want dug in to reinforce (I usually set to turn 1) then change the scenario to an "assault" type and hit the "Dig In" button, change the scenario back to whatever type it originally was and go thru then reset the units you had as reinforcements (the ones you didn't want dug in) to reinforce turn 0.
Walla!

Forgot about the game modes,
So does this mean that any game mode can have the barbed wire,mines,foxholes,etc?

Yes if it's a scenario you've built.
Heck, both side can if you want.

[wulfir]

I could use some help with the buying and deployment of the OPFOR AI controlled troops for a test scenario:

Aug 2023, Russian full scale invasion of Ukraine is underway.

Along the M02/E391 road parts of the Ukr 1 Tank Bde will defend against elements of the Russian 1st Guards Tank Army. It is believed that the 4th Gds Tank Div will lead the attack. The Div is equipped with T-80U tanks, but now also one Battalion's worth of T-14s.

Assault Mission, 200x160 map of VILNA SLOBODA, Ukr.
Ukr Player 1, Russia Player 2.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/27997a1ea5b7166f3d4e2a4593eb9ea4/5c7be01da8636fb0-60/s2048x3072/d060e31d8cbb17c4334b195de6201c670eb8ab77.png

https://64.media.tumblr.com/6ef6b6d4f550298ce125287106a3cab3/5c7be01da8636fb0-07/s2048x3072/98a9048988312e2afcaf71836a77b6bcebc78e98.png

Game map is done, I'll upload the scenario if I can get anyone to take this on. Lots of open terrain. :)

[zovs66]

Might be interested in setting up the Russian AI. What are the parameters?

[Suhiir]

I'd suggest a number of off map MLRS (with mostly HE) on turn 1 (edit their ROF so they empty themselves turn 1) to represent the typical Russian pre assault barrage.

[wulfir]

Might be interested in setting up the Russian AI. What are the parameters?

Cool! :up:

I figure something like this - Russia plans on a dash along the M02 toward Kiev using troops of the 1 Gds Tank Army. With the 4 Gds Tank Div in the lead. No fancy moves with paratroopers or helicopterborne landings or the like. Instead relying on brute force with use of heavy conventional forces supported by plenty of artillery along the axis of advance. Air support optional.

The Ukrainians have had time to entrench and place mines and the Russians are unsure of the strength of the defence in the border region but nonchalant and expecting to be able to bulldoze their way through anything. They know that opposing them is likely the Ukr 1 Tank Bde which use T-64BM tanks assumed to be inferior.

I don't know how many T-14 Armatas the Russians have, or expect to be able to field before 2023 so I figure no more than a battalion for this division. Other than that it seems the 4th Gds Tank Div use T-80Us...

Buy and deploy. Set way points if you like etc. Deploy the bulk of the forces to the right ("east") of the Loknya stream/river.

Don't worry about "game balance".:cool:

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

On T-14 probably no more than 100 tanks by 2023. Likely about the same number of the T-90M however, I would expect most of these tanks to be kept in a strategic reserve. The "backbone" of all Russian armored divisions still rests on the T-72 variants with the T-80 versions at this time just starting to make a reappearance in any numbers as they are receiving some upgrades currently.

Ukraine likely to hold it's T-84 OPLOT-M in reserve to defend the capital but, they will have plenty of the newer T-64BM17 tanks by 2023 that we just entered in the last patch. You should expect the Ukraine force to heavy on the "newer" T-72 and T-80 tank side as well.

They will also have plenty of Javelins as well, we've been expanding their numbers for the last couple of years and this is still continuing with about 200 more for now before your timeline.

NATO has been training their troops now for years with combined exercises as well. These won't be the same troops the Russians encounter during the Crimea incursion.

Work Work!!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[wulfir]

They will also have plenty of Javelins as well, we've been expanding their numbers for the last couple of years and this is still continuing with about 200 more for now before your timeline.


How many Javelins do they have in total roughly? And is anything known about how they are meant to be employed, spread out through the army or concentrated? Some units get priority etc...?

[zovs66]

No limit on points spent? Just on the parameters you specificity?

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Wulfir,
SIPRI reports that in 2018 we shipped them 210 JAVELINs.

In 2019 another 150 were shipped.

In 2020/2021 another roughly 200 more are to be shipped. SIPRI should have 2020 arms transfer data available next month.
https://www.armyrecognition.com/march_2018_global_defense_security_army_news_indus try/us_approves_$47_mn_fms_from_ukraine_for_javelin_at gm_systems.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2018_global_defense_security_army_news_industr y/ukrainian_army_has_test-fired_american_javelin_anti-tank_missile.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/october_2019_global_defense_security_army_news_ind ustry/us_clears_sale_of_javelin_antitank_missiles_to_ukr aine.html
https://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2020_news_defense_global_security_army_industr y/ukraine_to_import_3_additional_arms_shipments_from _us_in_2020.html
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/pilum-high-the-javelin-anti-armor-missile-03440/
(As of this writing, the above is locked for now.)

That I can verify right now, 360 confirmed.

Also as a separate but, related issue, the Ukraine was prohibited initially from using the JAVELIN against Rebel/Russian forces until July 7, 2020.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34638/ukraine-cleared-to-move-javelin-missiles-to-front-lines-to-blow-up-russian-tanks-defensively
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/russia-will-hate-ukraine-cleared-move-american-javelin-missiles-front-lines-164359

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[wulfir]

No limit on points spent? Just on the parameters you specificity?

No limits on points. :up:

[zovs66]

Cool deal, using this as my basic reference for inspiration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Guards_Tank_Division

[zovs66]

T-80U's, BMP-2's and BTR-82's (if I can find those).

137th Reconnaissance Battalion
12th Guards Tank Regiment*
13th Guards Tank Regiment*
423rd Motor Rifle Regiment*
275th Self-Propelled Artillery Regiment
538th Guards Anti-Aircraft Missile Regiment
330th Separate Engineering Battalion

* Not sure if I can purchase an entire regiment or not, but would like it to be a presentation of all three regiments in attack mode.

In honor of the 4th Guards "Kantemirovskaya" Tank Division!

[zovs66]

That pages is helpful, showing:


Main Battle Tanks 320 (T-80U)
IFV 300 (BMP-2)
Self-Propelled Artillery 130 (2S3 Akatsiya & 2S19 Msta)
Multiple Rocket Launchers 12 (BM-21)

[wulfir]

Cool deal, using this as my basic reference for inspiration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Guards_Tank_Division

That was my source too. It's where I read that the division was to move from T-80s directly to T-14s, but from what I can understand that seems less likely now that the whole division will be fielding T-14s...

[zovs66]

Okay I have just finished purchasing the 4th Guards Tank Division. Well, almost the whole division. I made it tank heavy.

Do you wish for me to keep the purchases secret? (I can email you the details and the scenario as well) or would you rather have it posted here public?

Going to deploy and set way points.

Very mean and tough looking bunch of Guards units.

Question, since they are guards can I adjust their morale (and or experience) up say 10% or so or would you rather have it at the default?

[zovs66]

Oh, I maxed out the Units at 260.

Of that there are 191 AFV's out of which 103 are tanks (only about a third of which are T-14s), 45 BMP's and 18 BTR's plus 36 tubes of artillery, 6 ATGM and 1 FOO.

Quite a powerful force!

If we had 40 + more units slots available I could have made the entire 4th Guards Kantemirovskaya order of Lenin Red Banner Tank Division! lol

It will take several hours to a day or so to deploy and set the way points.

[zovs66]

Oh, I ran out of slots for engineering assets.

wulfir you have inspired me out of my slump...

Thank you.

Tom will be thankful...lol

[wulfir]

It will take several hours to a day or so to deploy and set the way points.

No need to go all in if it takes too much time, this is a bit of a test really. Maybe just set way points for a select few formations...?

[zovs66]

Oh, no, after purchasing the Russians and seeing your beautiful man, I have to go all in. I'll see if I can' get it all setup by end of day lol.

This is a blast...

[zovs66]

Wulfir,

I got it all setup. Do you want me to post it here? I also have a small text file with what I purchased.

I plotted 10 gold target hexes, but I have not plotted any turns artillery. I can come back to that later if you like.

[zovs66]

Let me know.

[shahadi]

Soviet Everoed Airfield Hasty Defense

My OOB Soviet purchase for the Everoed Airfield hasty defense is a classic Soviet airborne drop of a battalion augmented with a spetsnaz airborne company. I choose to drop the force (from AN-12s transport aircraft) given the range to Everoed and back is beyond the combat radius of an air assault from a Warsaw Pact field (greater then 475km radius.) Furthermore, I based my unit buys on an assumption the Soviets would have to cover the Arctic Circle while cutting off Stockholm from Copenhagen to complete a plan to secure the airfield at Everoed. In the end, this was an explicit mission requirement that the Soviet force is composed of VDV units.

Additionally, I assumed the Soviet force quickly defeated the Swedes but headquarters had not time to airlift in heavy tanks, AA units, and helicopters, thus the assaulting force must hold the field until the arrival of a sealift force (meaning the NATO navies are at the bottom of the Baltic Sea or out of the area all together).

I built a force from 1985 (although in real-life the Soviets were being licked in Afghanistan with her air assault units suffering stupendous losses.) However, in this scenario I decided to depict units from the famed:


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16277&stc=1&d=1610872031
<br>
<b>104th Guards Airborne Regiment</b>
<br>
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16282&stc=1&d=1610874598

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16283&stc=1&d=1610875238

<br>
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16278&stc=1&d=1610872031

<br>
218th Battalion, 45th Airborne Spetsnaz Regiment.
<br>
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=16284&stc=1&d=1610875418

In a subsequent post, I intend to describe the disposition of the Soviet force in the Everoed airfield area.

<br>

[wulfir]

Let me know.

Thanks again zovs, I just played it through as the Ukr defenders, with a force drawn from the Ukr 1 Tank Bde - which from judging from the internet fields T-64 tanks.

Fighting between tanks erupted over longer distances than I had expected and even though the T-64s have a dangerous main gun it is at a disadvantage, even when entrenched. The Tank battalion at VILNA SLOBODA had about 70% losses.

Tried Ukr Skif and Javelin and Israeli MAPATS ATGMs, all do the trick. The Ukr tank launched ATGMs were less effective.

Got a marginal victory. :up: