Bending WinSPMBTs rules

[Suhiir]

I wanted to throw this out for Andy and Don (mostly) and anyone else that cares to comment.

In the course of my many quests to get WinSPMBT to do what I want rather then what's it programmed and intended to do I came up with this.

Most OOBs do not make use of Unit Class #215 (Gunship Aircraft) so I copied a "cheap" UAV (Crew=1, Size=0, Speed=3, EW=3, Vision=15) and created a dummy WC=11 (aircraft) weapon.
Interestingly it costs about half as much as a UC=50 (Air OP Aircraft) unit and since it's a "Gunship Aircraft" it makes only one circle-pass of the targeted location thus has a more limited probability of actually spotting anything. But since it's still officially an aircraft it's fired on by AA weapons. Finally being a different Unit Class then Spotter Aircraft you can create a formation with say two UAVs vice the Spotter A/Cs one.

The questions are:
Is this variant of spotter aircraft useful to represent "dimestore" UAV's?
Is it totally breaking WinSPMBTs "rules as intended"?

[DRG]

The real question is WHY would anyone want one ?

[Suhiir]

That applies to a good majority of the equipment modeled in WinSPMBT :)

Some folks think infantry is a waste of time, others aircraft.

So I guess my major concern, that it was "bending" WinSPMBTs rules too much isn't as much of an issue as "why bother".

[DRG]

Again......WHY would anyone want or need a "dimestore" UAV??

[Airborne Rifles]

Could it be used to model a small UAV like a Raven: (http://www.avinc.com/uas/small_uas/raven)

Every infantry company in the US Army is MTOEd two of them.

[Suhiir]

Could it be used to model a small UAV like a Raven: (http://www.avinc.com/uas/small_uas/raven)

Every infantry company in the US Army is MTOEd two of them.
Yep.

While the game offers a "god view" you're still limited by line-of-sight. The lesser capability of the "gunship" UAV compared to a full "spotter aircraft" gives you a way to represent small unit UAVs as opposed to essentially strategic resources like a Predator.

Currently you have to spend 100-200 points to buy a high-tech spotter, hardly worthwhile for a scenario involving a 2-300 point infantry company.

[scorpio_rocks]

Could it be used to model a small UAV like a Raven:

Every infantry company in the US Army is MTOEd two of them.
Yep.

While the game offers a "god view" you're still limited by line-of-sight. The lesser capability of the "gunship" UAV compared to a full "spotter aircraft" gives you a way to represent small unit UAVs as opposed to essentially strategic resources like a Predator.

Currently you have to spend 100-200 points to buy a high-tech spotter, hardly worthwhile for a scenario involving a 2-300 point infantry company.

Isn't this contary to what you said here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=50327)?

[Suhiir]

Opinions change over time :)

Besides it IS nice to know what's on the other side of a hill before sticking your head over it.

[jivemi]

Some folks think infantry is a waste of time, others aircraft.


Well, don't infantry spot better than anything else? Try doing Scenario #61--El Al. You'll find that a paucity of infantry will result in your tank-heavy force being all-but-obliterated by enemies you can hardly see. Ditto for a number of others.

While personally I'd prefer to have unbuttoned, stationary tanks spot nearly as well as infantry there might be good reasons why this can't or won't be done. Anyway this is a combined-arms wargame so bending rules to favor aircraft as spotters might present problems (and don't ask me, I'm neither digitally, experientially nor theoretically competent :smirk:).

OTOH regarding the thread "Lessons Learned from the Rus-Ukr War" if drones are as ubiquitous and relatively invulnerable (sans EW incapacitation) as described and arty so powerful then the balance of conventional warfare as we know it may have been decisively altered. If so, then your suggestion may be a harbinger of rethink, at least for symmetrical warfare from now on.

[DRG]

A no frills basic UAV with 10 visibility would cost 30 points to be able to see over the next hill, so about the same as a decent scout team.... and a 20 vision version would only be 4 points more than that and a 30 vision version would total 37 points a GS version with 10 vision would be only 11 points less so hardy worth the price of kludging together a "dimestore" UAV from another Unitclass

[Suhiir]

A no frills basic UAV with 10 visibility would cost 30 points to be able to see over the next hill, so about the same as a decent scout team.... and a 20 vision version would only be 4 points more than that and a 30 vision version would total 37 points a GS version with 10 vision would be only 11 points less so hardy worth the price of kludging together a "dimestore" UAV from another Unitclass
Using a 15 visibility (same as typical infantry) and I get a 48 vs 77 (a 60% difference) points just by changing the unit class (and deleting the weapon since OP Aircraft can't have any). Whereas a Scout Team runs 36-41.

[DRG]

You aren't setting it to basic if you get a cost that high. I get 37 with HF=1 so try again

[DRG]

Actually it really doesn't matter what cost you get the OP aircraft are costed differently than GS aircraft in the game for play balance.....if you want to screw around with different unitclasses, be my guest with your personal OOB but it's never going to make it to the official OOB's and OF COURSE you are "bending" the "rules" but you knew that before you even asked the question

[Suhiir]

Just thought it might be useful for "off the shelf" type UAVs that don't have the capabilities that say a Predator has.

[DRG]

Then don't give it the capabilities that a Predator has.......simple solution. Durability 1, speed 1, crew 1 vision 10 or 15<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Mobhack]

Why even give it night vision? - it's a Radio Shack kit with a go-pro daylight camera, not LLTV or infra-red at all.

[DRG]

The real point is you CAN build a basic, simple, cheap UAV with the code in place now without screwing around with a kludged UC that was not designed to be used that way

[Suhiir]

Well about the cheapest I can make one is 69 points (I imagine most of that is due to EW=3 to make it resistant to MPADs).
Live with it.

Thanks all for the feedback!