AA Defense

[Paulinski]

Hey All

I don't really post much and recently I re-discovered SPMBT and the WWII sibling.

I have played China Punishes Vietnam scenario 5 or 6 times as Vietnam and every time it was a draw.

The Chinese just obliterate my armor with air strikes. I have I pair of 14.5mm BR40 (I think that is correct name) Strela team and ZSU=23 as reinforcement. I managed to down one plane:rolleyes: in 6 games with the ZSU

Does anyone have any tips how to conduct proper AA defense.

Cheers

Paul

[jivemi]

There's no way "to conduct a proper AA defense" beyond making sure your AA assets are in decent defensive terrain (or dug in) with clear lines of fire to all directions above your units while being concealed from enemy direct fire. The rest is up to chance.

[Suhiir]

AA is very much a "luck" unit.
Do you hit at all?
Do you do enough damage to drive off/kill anything?

[Wdll]

Hey All

I don't really post much and recently I re-discovered SPMBT and the WWII sibling.

I have played China Punishes Vietnam scenario 5 or 6 times as Vietnam and every time it was a draw.

The Chinese just obliterate my armor with air strikes. I have I pair of 14.5mm BR40 (I think that is correct name) Strela team and ZSU=23 as reinforcement. I managed to down one plane:rolleyes: in 6 games with the ZSU

Does anyone have any tips how to conduct proper AA defense.

Cheers

Paul

Check elevation and line of fire. If your AA unit is for example at 50m elevation and right next to it are very higher hexes, the AA might have problem even spotting the enemy planes.
If the weather/visibility is bad and your AA have no radar or other way of seeing the incoming plane, make sure the AA is close to potential targets to provide cover. Make sure the AA doesn't move for at least a turn if you want it to have better chances of firing and hitting a plane.

[Imp]

Same principals apply for accuracy do not move and fire.
The ZSU is by far your best air defence system with radar and a EW rating better than the Chinese planes most likely.
As they are reinforcements I would suggest turning off the main weapon till you have moved into position.
Possibly time your movement for just after China has made an air strike and keep the ZSU out of sight of enemy units as it is likely to become a high priority for the Chinese air.
Possibly don’t be in a hurry to commit your tanks fight the air battle first by heading back to your AAA so they do not have to move first. Getting complicated time it right and U turn and the AI will probably expect you to be somewhere else when it attacks. Enough time for your vehicles to be stationary so hard to spot and the decision is do you turn off the tanks AA fire so they do not give away their locations?

[Paulinski]

Thanks for replies everyone.

I'm stubborn so I played another time last night. Draw as expected but I did down 3 :eek: Chinese planes. I'm beginning to question if the Chinese have too much air assets unless historically it was the case.

I don't think is feasible to hold back my armor because the Chinese armor arrive in turn 2 and just punishes my infantry.

I'm going to try again and see if I can hold the ZSU to fire on closer targets as it seems they target the planes far away.

The Strela is somewhat useful the 14.5mm is useless.

[jivemi]

A bit OT but it's interesting that Vietnam has difficulty winning this. Usually when the AI attacks (here as China) it hurls itself willy-nilly upon the foe without regard for casualties. And since China starts the scenario as Player #1 (Human) it would appear that Camo Workshop intended Vietnam to be played by the AI.

Now this really piques my curiosity. Maybe when I'm done with a current WW2 LC I'll have a go as Player #2, as I've already played the Chinese side several times. It wasn't easy to get a marginal win IIRC.

[Paulinski]

A bit OT but it's interesting that Vietnam has difficulty winning this. Usually when the AI attacks (here as China) it hurls itself willy-nilly upon the foe without regard for casualties. And since China starts the scenario as Player #1 (Human) it would appear that Camo Workshop intended Vietnam to be played by the AI.

Now this really piques my curiosity. Maybe when I'm done with a current WW2 LC I'll have a go as Player #2, as I've already played the Chinese side several times. It wasn't easy to get a marginal win IIRC.

After playing this several times as Vietnam :D I have no problems stopping Chinese assault until they decimate my tanks and AFV's with their air assets.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

In in RL, the Chinese operate the 2nd largest Air Force in the world currently with about 1700 combat aircraft. The USA has the largest with about 3500 combat aircraft.

I have found playing against the AI, that if you have SPAA/AAA and SAM's you better know you'll be under air attack of some kind.

I will at times make them a part of my "core" units so that they like all other units can gain "experience", they become very effective in their role once this has been achieved. So if you think you'll need them, buy them early.

From the "Think Tank"...
https://thediplomat.com/2016/05/chinas-military-has-nearly-3000-aircraft-heres-why-that-matters/
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-air-force-1700-combat-aircraft-ready-war-22940

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

[Wdll]

Thanks for replies everyone.

I'm stubborn so I played another time last night. Draw as expected but I did down 3 :eek: Chinese planes. I'm beginning to question if the Chinese have too much air assets unless historically it was the case.

I don't think is feasible to hold back my armor because the Chinese armor arrive in turn 2 and just punishes my infantry.

I'm going to try again and see if I can hold the ZSU to fire on closer targets as it seems they target the planes far away.

The Strela is somewhat useful the 14.5mm is useless.

Don't let your AA guns shoot at max range. That's a waste of ammo.

[jp10]

A bit more real life than game world but AAA professionals consider upsetting the attack (missed target, aborted runs...etc) to be successful deployment of assets, not just actually bringing down an attacker. I don't think the game has attackers avoiding AAA and SAMs and spoiling their attack as much as in real life. In the US deployment in Vietnam the lead plane was often a decoy to draw AA assets and would abort and evade while the 2nd plane made the attack.
Does you AAA make many aborts or misses?

[Aeraaa]

A bit more real life than game world but AAA professionals consider upsetting the attack (missed target, aborted runs...etc) to be successful deployment of assets, not just actually bringing down an attacker. I don't think the game has attackers avoiding AAA and SAMs and spoiling their attack as much as in real life. In the US deployment in Vietnam the lead plane was often a decoy to draw AA assets and would abort and evade while the 2nd plane made the attack.
Does you AAA make many aborts or misses?

I consider the "abort" as an aircraft receiving damage but not shot down, since any aircraft that receives even 1hp of damage permanently leaves the battlefield.

[Imp]

Thanks for replies everyone.

I'm stubborn so I played another time last night. Draw as expected but I did down 3 :eek: Chinese planes. I'm beginning to question if the Chinese have too much air assets unless historically it was the case.

I don't think is feasible to hold back my armor because the Chinese armor arrive in turn 2 and just punishes my infantry.

I'm going to try again and see if I can hold the ZSU to fire on closer targets as it seems they target the planes far away.

The Strela is somewhat useful the 14.5mm is useless.

Don't let your AA guns shoot at max range. That's a waste of ammo.

Varies vs Helos for sure reduce the range to draw them in.
Planes however get lead time each consecutive shot is more accurate so hit chance goes up.
Therefore effective so long as flight path is not all at far range.

[Wdll]

Thanks for replies everyone.

I'm stubborn so I played another time last night. Draw as expected but I did down 3 :eek: Chinese planes. I'm beginning to question if the Chinese have too much air assets unless historically it was the case.

I don't think is feasible to hold back my armor because the Chinese armor arrive in turn 2 and just punishes my infantry.

I'm going to try again and see if I can hold the ZSU to fire on closer targets as it seems they target the planes far away.

The Strela is somewhat useful the 14.5mm is useless.

Don't let your AA guns shoot at max range. That's a waste of ammo.

Varies vs Helos for sure reduce the range to draw them in.
Planes however get lead time each consecutive shot is more accurate so hit chance goes up.
Therefore effective so long as flight path is not all at far range.

I rather have the planes approach and have higher chance of hitting them, than shoot at them from afar and have very limited chance of hitting them.
Plus shooting them several times without hitting them gives away the position of the AA guns.
I prefer to have them shoot at most at 75% of their range.
Depending on various parameters.

[Paulinski]

A fine ytube wargaming channel "The Mack" is currently playing this scenario.

Give him a sub and watch his videos also SPWWII material there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2C90Bn9cts&t=30s

[Paulinski]

Got Marginal Victory as Vietnamese this eve. :)

[jivemi]

Feels good doesn't it? Nothing like challenging scenarios to bring out the best in a player regardless of experience.

Had a gander at Mack's videos. Seems he benefited from your advice and got a marginal on his first try. Much obliged for the link. Cheers!

[Suhiir]

Always the best when you pull off a near thing ... in a game anyway :rolleyes:

RL I prefer my victories extremely lopsided.