ATGM's firing at below minimum range.

[Imp]

Is anybody else having this issue?
Especially noticeable with ATGMs with a long minimum range like cobras.
They do only get a 1% hit chance but they now take the shot instead of holding fire.

[Mobhack]

They definitely should not be doing this.

Presumably AI held weapons?

Opfire or regular fire?

[Steves308]

I've seen this recently too. In my case:

AI weapon - Malutkas
Op fire when I almost ran over the hidden ATGM team.
The 1% hit chance sounds familiar, a very low percentage like that.
It was a long campaign scenario, 1970s (if that matters).
I don't see it a lot, probably more of an Op fire situation when I end up on top of or very near the ATGM team.

Steves308

[Imp]

Certainly under opfire but I think regular fire to

[DRG]

If anyone can provide us with a save that will show it happening on replay that would be helpful.

[Mobhack]

Oh - if these were Sagger teams, then those usually have a RPG-7 to cover the 0-500m dead zone. Maybe you were seeing an RPG shot?.

[Mobhack]

Bug confirmed - AI v AI game, all tanks start within 500m of saggers, saggers fired at 1% to hit.

Something to put on the to-fix list.

[Suhiir]

Bug confirmed - AI v AI game, all tanks start within 500m of saggers, saggers fired at 1% to hit.

Something to put on the to-fix list.
Interesting bug.
Maybe has something to do with the RPG that's typically part of Sagger teams (i.e. a 2nd AT class weapon)? Don't recall ever seeing it in TOW/Dragon/Javelin teams.

[Steves308]

I don't think it was the RPG, as that weapon usually followed the ATGM and got my tank ;^)

But Suhiir has a point, I don't think I've seen it with an ATGM team that doesn't have a backup type of anti-tank weapon.

Steves308

[Mobhack]

I just tried that test with Italian cobras, which have no RPG. The AI fired one at about 350 yards by itself, but the rest stayed silent until the tanks moved , when the cobras started to fire within minimum range as big bottle rockets.

So the RPG is a factor in AI firing in regular fire, but the things do fire in opfire as well.

I also started manually, and the game fired the cobras manually at tanks within 500m as well.

So - something has gone squiffy with the minimum range code (if it ever worked - I cant think of any time I have tried firing ATGM within knife range in the last 20 years, myself!).

I suppose it could be rationalised as "fire what you have and pray for a Hail Mary" since in one test a 1% sagger made the hit when fired as a bottle rocket. But the programmer in me wants to find out why it is firing out of parameters and fix that as a bug.

[Suhiir]

The problem is ammunition.

Since the advent of reactive armor and CIWS/VIRSS heavy ATGMs have become an even more valuable resource for non-tank units as you often need to exhaust these before you can actually destroy a tank. If we add ATGMs automatically firing at insignificant to-hit chances they become even more scarce.

[Suhiir]

Edit: Since the edit button doesn't seem to be working.

I recall in particular one scenario is I believe Norway where each ATGM team was capable of killing a single Soviet tank before exhausting it's ATGM supply. Since this was Norway many of the encounters were at short ranges (due to woods mostly) and normal infantry merely slowed and distracted the Soviet tanks till ATGM teams could get to the proper range. I'm not sure the Norwegians could have won if even 25% of their ATGMs had been wasted on "Hail Mary" shots.

[Mobhack]

A bug to remove, then.

[Imp]

It definitely does happen in op fire to teams without an RPG & with ATGM equipped vehicles like BMP1. Thanks for looking into.