Scenario 37

[Roman]

The North Vietnamese had Aquaman.

https://i.imgur.com/9tr9lrt.png

[DRG]

including the unit number would have been a BIG help. It is likely that unit has a swim speed but I need the unit number or better still--- a save game that shows it in the water

[DRG]

There is something going on with that scenario that will require more investigation. I tried running it AI vs AI and it did run but normally if I press the enter key that will force the game to pause after the turn it is running but it would not obey the Enter key stop command and at one point I THINK I saw a USMC unit, not a boat out there but I could not stop the game to check so I will have to try again when I have time to watch it. This was a DOS era scenario converted to windows then 9 years ago revised so what's going on is anyone guess.

I had hoped the water was shallow which would explain why leg units were out there but that is not the case

[Suhiir]

I looked over the scenario in the editor and see no North Korean units spawning in the water.

I also looked at the North Korean OOB and see no Infantry/Crew units with a "swim" movement speed.

Then I checked with the map editor and the water is "deep".

The ONLY USMC units that spawn in the water are two (2) US Navy UDT (i.e. divers) that spawn in the SE area of the map near the Recon team.

FYI
USN UDT/SEALs and USMC Recon do have a water move speed.

[Roman]

Indeed in the first turns a unit of seals appears in the water.
But towards the end of the game I saw a North Korean sniper heading into the middle of the sea. And then another appeared, which is the one in the photo.
The comment was anecdotal and funny. I didn't think it was a serious bug so I didn't save the game. But I can do the scenario again and if the same problem appears I take the precaution of saving it. And I will take the same precaution with any scenario where something strange appears. Thank you!!

PS: I'll try the scenario again because I had 90 kills. Let's see if I can minimize them to 17 like in the true story.

[DRG]

The game should not be doing that and I saw something similar but did not get the chance to investigate. It may be the entire scenario needs to be rebuilt as it was originally designed a few years before we made some major changes to the code

[Suhiir]

It may be the entire scenario needs to be rebuilt as it was originally designed a few years before we made some major changes to the code
Want me to take a look?

[DRG]

It may be the entire scenario needs to be rebuilt as it was originally designed a few years before we made some major changes to the code
Want me to take a look?

If you have the time and inclination then by all means....have a look. I forget why it was "rebuilt" 9 years ago but there must have been another issue like this that was serious enough for it to be marked "Revised".

Its an early one by Ulf......maybe he has some ideas about this little mystery

[Suhiir]

Its an early one by Ulf......maybe he has some ideas about this little mystery
I'll send him a note.

My #1 concern is it may ... may ... have something to do with the map itself as I assume (note assume) that was translated (somehow) as well not created new using the WinSPMBT map creator/editor. If this is the case ... ???????

[Mobhack]

There is something going on with that scenario that will require more investigation. I tried running it AI vs AI and it did run but normally if I press the enter key that will force the game to pause after the turn it is running but it would not obey the Enter key stop command and at one point I THINK I saw a USMC unit, not a boat out there but I could not stop the game to check so I will have to try again when I have time to watch it. This was a DOS era scenario converted to windows then 9 years ago revised so what's going on is anyone guess.

I had hoped the water was shallow which would explain why leg units were out there but that is not the case

It's the space bar that is the "break in" key for AI v AI games, IIRC since the new fix that allows the U for smoke off and so on in the latest release.

The paragraph that starts:

Here are new special hotkeys that allow adjustments while the AI turn is active


In the release history section for V17 (and likely for the latest WW2 as well) doesen't mention the hotkey for AI v AI play, but AFAIR it was the space key to break into those games now.

Edit - I just tried a random AI v AI battle and the space bar allowed breaking into the game.

[wulfir]

Its an early one by Ulf......maybe he has some ideas about this little mystery

It's one of the first one's I've ever made, so it's old - no doubt it could use a face lift. The map is too large, should maybe be reworked.

I don't remember editing any NKPA snipers to go surfing...

[DRG]

It's the space bar that is the "break in" key for AI v AI games,

:doh::doh::doh:

......in my defence ( weak at best.....)I was juggling a number of other RL home projects at the same time but I did see what may have been something else in the water around turn 10 but at the time I had the map zoomed all the way out and if I zoomed in the game would center on the action so I missed seeing exactly what it was but it almost looked like a gun......... but I was in the middle of doing other things so that is not a reliable observation

[Suhiir]

It's one of the first one's I've ever made, so it's old - no doubt it could use a face lift. The map is too large, should maybe be reworked.
So no objections to me revising the scenario?

[wulfir]

So no objections to me revising the scenario?

Not at all, go for it. :up:

Btw, regarding the map - IIRC it was created way back in one of the dos versions of the game when the game mostly had the old basic SP terrain options. The scale is off. I relied on a map from some old book - the internet back then was sparse on map info. Made map making quicker tho. :)

Also looked up Wolmi-do island today - it doesn't look much like it did in the 50s...

The scenario was probably uploaded to the Wargamer scenario archive and from there made it to the game. The people who dealt with me back then have since dropped off. Don't remember their names but they were active in the yahoo group list and I have a faint memory of them wanting to keep going with the dos version (?)...

[DRG]

Also looked up Wolmi-do island today - it doesn't look much like it did in the 50s...



Not even remotely close, It's a theme park now and they have filled in the mudflats so you cannot use Venhola to build the map

One map from that time here
http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol083js.html

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vo083jsa.jpg

You could try using the existing map and run the fix-damage routine with the extended map editor then modify that

[Suhiir]

EDIT

Here it is with all damage removed which might solve the issues that are cropping up after new units are bought and placed
I note the map you fixed has been SERIOUSLY cropped.
Intentional?

[DRG]

Oops. I didn't change the size and it took what I had set and used that

I will redo

[DRG]

Corrected map. This should remove any weirdness that might have crept into the original after all the game updates

[Suhiir]

Speaking of the map ...

I know you can use the map editor to add shell craters.
Is there a way to change the tree/forest hexes to burnt down/blown to hell forest?

P.S.
A preparatory bombardment by 4 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, 9 destroyers, several squadrons of various types of aircraft over the course of 5 days; and then over 3,000 4.5in rockets just before the landings creates a rather impressive moonscape.

[DRG]

Speaking of the map ...

I know you can use the map editor to add shell craters.
Is there a way to change the tree/forest hexes to burnt down/blown to hell forest?

Short answer is no. You could selectively add winter trees, there are plenty of bare ones but it's tedious but it will do in a pinch.

I have seen burnt tree Icons in the code files we got but they are leftovers from early SSI development that were never used and I am not sure where they are. They were never used because the time span SP covers means burning trees never stop burning

EDIT

"Mystery" solved. They were an unused portion of the original SP2 tree SHP files for all types that were never used in the game that were removed from the file when I expanded the tree variety YEARS ago

All sets had burnt trees but were never put into the code for use. That example is the original SSI summer tree set TER09... but that's not how TER09 looks like in SPWW2/MBT now. Now the base tree set has been expanded considerably ( and the burnt ones removed because there was no reason to keep them )

https://i.imgur.com/dDnWA7F.png



P.S.
A preparatory bombardment by 4 heavy cruisers, 2 light cruisers, 9 destroyers, several squadrons of various types of aircraft over the course of 5 days; and then over 3,000 4.5in rockets just before the landings creates a rather impressive moonscape.

You could add damage with 255 flood fill but its better to put damage like that in small chunks otherwise the map contours are obscured. Re pre-bombardment It's the Napalm that was dropped that the South Koreans remember the most and it's still an issue with them

[Suhiir]

Winter trees work!
Thanks.

[zovs66]

I use winter, spring and autumn trees interchangeable with summer trees all the time in all my scenarios where needed and required. I have over 800 examples in both games.

[Suhiir]

Re-revised map of Wolmi-Do September 1950.

Wanted to get this to you now Don before I forget.

I use winter, spring and autumn trees interchangeable with summer trees all the time in all my scenarios where needed and required. I have over 800 examples in both games.
Personally I rarely mess with the map editor.
I'm MUCH more an OOB and scenario person.

[Suhiir]

I've run into a bit of a problem.

The scenario is set to player 1 (USMC) assaults player 2 (NK) and I can purchase "mine" points on the NK purchase screen.
BUT
When I go to the deployment screen to place wire/mines the points have reset to zero (0).

[Mobhack]

See the bug report about defenders not placing mines. Looks like something needs investigating, and the mine buy being cleared down between purchase and deployment as you report, may well have something to do with that bug.

[zovs66]

Re-revised map of Wolmi-Do September 1950.

Wanted to get this to you now Don before I forget.

I use winter, spring and autumn trees interchangeable with summer trees all the time in all my scenarios where needed and required. I have over 800 examples in both games.
Personally I rarely mess with the map editor.
I'm MUCH more an OOB and scenario person.

Personally I think you have to mess with all three. But that is just me, I mess with maps, OOBs and scenarios. A lot :D

Well I have taken a small break to recoup last year or so, but I have 40 or so in my back pocket ;)

[Suhiir]

It's one of the first one's I've ever made <clip>
I assume you just converted the existing scenario to WinSPMBT?

There were well over twice as many North Koreans as were actually present during the battle.

[wulfir]

I assume you just converted the existing scenario to WinSPMBT?


I made the scenario in the dos version of the game.

I had by then made a few trembling steps in making scenarios for Steel Panthers II and especially Steel Panthers 3 where I made large size scenarios with a hypothetical WW3 starting with clashes between Iranian and Russian forces in Turkmenistan, this was around 1999 - I enjoyed to play user made scenarios that war uploaded to a scenario archive at a site called the Wargamer but I did not publish any of mine.

Then I discovered the add-on game SP2WW2 and the mod Steel Panthers World at War.
I made two short campaigns for a mod to SPWAW called SP: Head to Head - this mod of a mod had redone OOBs and was focused on PBEM play. Those campaigns got included in that game. I did some map work for PBEM play and an unfinished scenario or two for SPWAW that never got published. I liked to play Poland in PBEM play but the settings were such that in SPWAW it was US Army or Germany or you were toast - because IIRC they factored in some sort of industrial/strategic balance in a tactical game, Poland lost in 1939 so small size battles must reflect this and the Polish OOB was dumbed down. They couldn't hit targets, it was boring.

I started playing PBEM games at the Blitz, mostly SPMBT and after a while SPWW2. I liked the superior depth of those games and liked to hand craft maps for PBEM games. The overwhelming majority of players at the Blitz back then were SPWAW players - which would however all over time drop off or switch to SPWW2/MBT.

Then I made a few scenarios for those games that I uploaded to the Wargamer archive. Some of the PBEM maps I had made I uploaded to the yahoo group. This was around 2003.

I made two US Army campaigns for SPWW2 - Paratroopers in the Pacific and American Crusaders - the first one got included and the other one which was more ambitious got ditched because there was something wrong with it, later on it was snatched from oblivion and included.

The people who dealt with me when it came to scenarios, campaigns and maps were (IIRC) Doug MacBratney and Ed Mortimer. I have not seen them around for ages. I assume they passed things along when the jump was made to winSPMBT but I was not involved in that...

[zovs66]

Oh yes Ed Mortimer, drafted me in when I created my first 20 scenario pack in the DOS days. I had a 20 scenario GD at Kursk CG that I was putting my finishing touches on when that time my PC took a dumpster dive and I lost all that work, it took me many years to com back and start creating again in 2017 or something.

[Suhiir]

Revised and updated Scenario 37.

Currently in scenario slot 537 and map slot 537.
I'll let Don decide how he wants to add this to the master scenario/map files for release as a patch or as part of next year's update.

I'd appreciate if someone could play it and look for bugs.
HOPEFULLY we no longer have surfing North Korean snipers!

[DRG]

If it playtests well I will replace the original with it with appropriate notation as to its origins and revision

[Suhiir]

It's pretty much of a walkover.
As was the real battle.

[DRG]

If Wulfir is happy with it then so will I since it's his original being replaced so could this version of the scenario be viewed as a good beginner's scenario to amphib landings?

[Suhiir]

If Wulfir is happy with it then so will I since it's his original being replaced so could this version of the scenario be viewed as a good beginner's scenario to amphib landings?
Probably.

[Roman]

Revised and updated Scenario 37.

Currently in scenario slot 537 and map slot 537.
I'll let Don decide how he wants to add this to the master scenario/map files for release as a patch or as part of next year's update.

I'd appreciate if someone could play it and look for bugs.
HOPEFULLY we no longer have surfing North Korean snipers!

Brilliant!! I will try to try it

[Suhiir]

Then I discovered the add-on game SP2WW2 and the mod Steel Panthers World at War.
It's ALL your fault!

My regular PC is in the shop so I dusted off an OLD laptop (running XP because that's all it can handle) with Steel Panthers World at War installed on it and am happily replaying the "Desert Fox" Megacampaign for the first time in probably 20 years. :happy:

P.S.
This laptop is also VERY handy for running old DOS games on. ;)

[Karagin]

Wait you got a DOS game to run on XP machine?

I need to get an old WIN ME machine...

[Suhiir]

Wait you got a DOS game to run on XP machine?

I need to get an old WIN ME machine...
DOSbox (not always needed)

As an alternative you can always start XP in DOS mode. But then, of course, you can't check the net for any issues/walkthroughs for the game you are playing.

[Karagin]

Never had much luck with emulators...

[Suhiir]

Never had much luck with emulators...
DOSbox works pretty well.

[wulfir]

If Wulfir is happy with it then so will I since it's his original being replaced...

I'm happy. :D

Feel free to replace anything I have made btw. Those early scenarios of mine could probably all do with a face lift anyway.

[Suhiir]

YAY!

@wilfir is happy AND I got my PC back from the shop.
Today is a nice day.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=%22we+were+soldiers%22++Have+a+good+day#fpstate= ive&vld=cid:760c0acc,vid:mUadcaBU-5w

[wulfir]

[QUOTE=wulfir;854951]
...Steel Panthers World at War installed on it and am happily replaying the "Desert Fox" Megacampaign for the first time in probably 20 years. :happy:


I got the Megacampaigns and the Das Reich community made campaign thingy, but so late I had already made the switch to winSPWW2/MBT and never played anything beyond the first scenario or so.

How many battles in length were the Megacampaigns? 20-30?

[DRG]

.............I had already made the switch to winSPWW2/MBT...........

.........and we're glad you did:)

[Suhiir]

I got the Megacampaigns and the Das Reich community made campaign thingy, but so late I had already made the switch to winSPWW2/MBT and never played anything beyond the first scenario or so.

I've been working on a USMC Campaign for several years now. At the time it was set for 2020 as that was the end date for WinSPMBT. With the change to a 2025 end date I rebuilt it. Then with the (VERY controversial!) decision to eliminate USMC armor I had to rebuild again. I've now decided to set it in 2021, just before the USMC disbanded it's armor formations. Once it's finally (god knows when ...) released the reason for the armor will be obvious.

Some time back I released one or two of the scenarios that are part of it and got some invaluable feedback. It's basically Chosin Reservoir set in Iraq just as ISIS makes it's debut. A MEU has to retreat from Baghdad to Kuwait while escorting all the personnel from allied (and some not so allied ... Russia) embassy's that got caught up in turmoil. So lots of "clear the path" and "keep the civilians alive".

The first scenario is pretty unique. You want to lose!

A HUGE unarmed (except for rocks) mob is rioting outside the USMC compound in Baghdad and shooting them gives you points. Mixed in are units of armed insurgents/ISIS that have no point value and can be "dispatched". While this is going on you need to run around collecting personnel from various embassy's. So not your typical scenario :smirk:

[wulfir]

I've been working on a USMC Campaign for several years now.

I've been working on a Swedish OOB for several years.

Restarted it several times too, it's probably going to be the death of me. OOB work is probably the hardest sort of grind you can do in this game.

:D

[Suhiir]

I've been working on a USMC Campaign for several years now.

I've been working on a Swedish OOB for several years.

Restarted it several times too, it's probably going to be the death of me. OOB work is probably the hardest sort of grind you can do in this game.

:D
LOTS of double, triple, quadrupedal checking.
All the "fun" of insuring dates line up and units/formations fit in APCs/IFVs.
THEN comes trying to fit RL formations into the 10 unit limit WinSPMBT has.
OH! And let's not forget the dozens of MG/MPAD/AT/etc. teams!

It's "interesting".

[DRG]

.........more so when the number is 129.........

[Suhiir]

.........more so when the number is 129.........
I don't envy you.