Arty Efectivnes and Z-Fire

[Dudi]

Is suppressive fire (key Z) connected to the ARTY EFFECTIVENESS in game prefferences ? When ARTY EFFECTIVENESS is set to 100% suppressive fire work normal but when I change ARTY EFFECTIVENESS to 1000% because it is the best realistic value in my opinion, suppressive fire become very deadly for infantry units, it can destroy all stacked units in just one fire action.

[Dion]

I often wondered that too, from my experience a 1,000% Arty Effectiveness makes it too easy to kill enemy units, even with suppressive fire, so I believe Z-fire is indeed connected with Arty Effectiveness. There's nothing wrong with a 100% Arty Effectiveness, as that should pin most units in just a few rounds, if not immediately.

If your experiencing unrealistic results with a 100% Arty Effectiveness, it could be caused by something else, like small caliber guns, and remember it's more common for artillery to cause the target to "hit the dirt" than cause KIA's. A lot of the big caliber guns cause KIA's pretty easy.

[Dudi]

100% is not realistic. 1 hex = 50 squer meters, yes ? Please check how big field it is in real world and place there 10 persons. In the game infantry is only pined down when 80mm mortar shell hit the hex. They don't have any chance on clear fields.

[Aeraaa]

The only unrealistic effect of artillery is that there is no increased chance of multiple kills if the first shell(s) hit the target. After that it is more or less realistic. 1000% is waay too lethal IMHO.

[Mobhack]

All indirect fires use the same routines - and Z-fire is indirect. That includes the artillery effect modifier so if you dial it up to 1000 its going to be rather lethal, indeed!.

[Dudi]

All indirect fires use the same routines - and Z-fire is indirect. That includes the artillery effect modifier so if you dial it up to 1000 its going to be rather lethal, indeed!.

Thank you :) then the artillery parameters should be separated because machine gun fire is not artillery fire.

[Mobhack]

Area HE fire is still HE fire.

[Dudi]

Area HE fire is still HE fire.

I know it's a game mechanic but it's stupid as hell

[Mobhack]

You choose the preferences level - its there for you or others to use, or not as they see fit.

I have never changed it (other than for testing) in 25+ years so there won't be any changes to code that has not needed changing in that amount of time to accommodate the 1% or less who decide to ram it up to such high levels.

[Dudi]

You choose the preferences level - its there for you or others to use, or not as they see fit.

I have never changed it (other than for testing) in 25+ years so there won't be any changes to code that has not needed changing in that amount of time to accommodate the 1% or less who decide to ram it up to such high levels.

I fully understand you but it doesn't change the fact that the effectiveness of artillery should not affect the fire of machine guns because they are not artillery. This is the end of the topic :) Thank you all

[Dion]

This subject is very intriguing to me. I didn't know MGs produced indirect fire. Is that statement correct? If it is, it must be abstracted, because you can't fire over intervening obstacles like you could with regular artillery.

[Mobhack]

Direct area fire is what they produce. Which is an HE effect on all troops in a hex, the same as indirect fires. But direct area fire needs LOS (though since I changed the rules in the DOS days, Z fires can fire beyond current visibility levels, unlike with the original SSI game).

Ball ammo is "HE" in game terms.

So, nope - you cannot fire over a hill or woods etc. Unlike reality - long range indirect fires with e.g. Vickers guns was a thing. They were used especially in WW1 to produce "steel rain" on enemy trenches and rear areas. But really only useful for harassing and interdiction level fires. Not worth the effort of writing code for, though perhaps if you made a Vickers gun an infantry gun class it might be plottable - or not, if the existing code invalidates smaller warhead sizes (or any AAMGs etc on SP guns would join in the bombardments?).

[Dion]

Having MG fire produce an HE effect without the explosions sounds realistic to me, because it simulates the effect of a spray of fire throughout the hex, which something what a MG does. I don't think creating "steel rain" is very important, because I feel its suppressive effects wouldn't be any different from what suppression from direct fire weapons already produces.